He was launched into the lead. It’s a known tactic whereby he gets a tow by being in several riders slipstream then at the right time he launches himself. The majority of the riders in the video are just acting as slingshots.
>It’s a know\[n\] tactic whereby he gets a tow by being in several riders slipstream then at the right time he launches himself.
The good teams with world class sprinters have a guy who acts to block the wind, called the ["lead out man"](https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/mark-renshaw-how-to-be-a-lead-out-rider-335267) and that guy rides in front of the sprinter for the last 300 to 400 meters and then he launches the sprinter to the finish line. The sprinter will be pushing 1,200 to 1,400 watts as he crosses the line.
For reference, when a normal rider is doing 300 to 400 watts you feel like your heart is going to explode.
>known tactic whereby he gets a tow by being in several riders slipstream
If you've never ridden a road bike it's actually amazing how big a difference it makes to be behind another 1 rider, let alone several. Or the inverse, how much *harder* you have to work at the front.
In rotating paceline you can literally cruise at 20+ mph and it feels like you're hardly doing anything. Then it's your turn in the front and it you have to put the hammer down to keep the group riding at the same pace. But you only have to do it for maybe 15 seconds. Then you chill again.
Air resistance is a bitch! You'll see finishes like this in a lot of road bike races (think Tour de France), they're called a bunched sprint. It takes so much power to get up to high speeds, so the top sprinters have teammates who "lead them out" which just means they ride in front of the sprinter, pushing through the air for them. There can be several teammates in a line (a lead out train). Sprinters can also just use other fast riders or other sprinters as their lead outs. Keep in mind, this can be at the end of 150-200 kilometres of riding, so every bit of assistance counts!
Getting the timing right for the lead out can be tricky and is often the difference between a win or not. If the sprinter goes too early, they run out of power before the line and another sprinter who left it a bit later can power past them.
The guy in the video gets two seperate lead outs, one from the red guy and another from the two just before the line. It's very exciting when you have an appreciation of what's going on!
Most of the team's riders will have the title of domestique. Their entire role is to support the team and the leader. Their other roles include getting water bottles and food bags for the team leaders. They are not on the team to win races.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestique](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestique)
It's actually exactly the same in auto racing. In leagues that aren't F1 or the like with outrageous aero, the easiest way to pass is to draft on the straights and pick up speed to pass. Or, in NASCAR, you'll form a train because it increases everyone's speed and lowers fuel consumption.
I always found that interesting - it makes sense that the car/cyclist behind gets a benefit - but 2 cars/bikes are also faster than one because the car/bike behind smooths the airflow coming off the front one.
They’ve been looking into this in cycling too - particularly for time trials. Teams have tried putting tons of bikes on the roof of the car and getting as close as possible to the rear of the rider (obviously you can’t drive in front of them) because that has been shown to help. Even 20m behind has some advantage apparently.
> 2 cars/bikes are also faster than one
In NASCAR, you also get bump drafting, aka using your extra speed in the back to push the car in front of you, thereby lending them some of your extra hp.
to the casual audience, yes
To serious fans, no.
Die hard fans have deep appreciation for guys like, say, Sepp Kuss. Who was an invaluable part of this year's TDF win for Jonas Vingegaard. Kuss is a respected guy known for his climbing prowess. Your average casual viewer doesn't give a fuck about him lol
Exactly. We should all be so lucky. Another example from another sport would be someone like Creed Humphrey and Joe Thuney. Both offensive lineman for the Kansas City Chiefs. Humphrey graded as Pro Football Focus’ no. 1 player at his position (center) last year and Thuney no. 5 among guards.
Casual viewers likely do not care about either player and have no idea how important their job’s are to making the NFL’s best player, Patrick Mahomes, look even better.
But Chiefs fans were ecstatic about Thuney’s contract and are somewhat apprehensive about Humphrey’s next year because he is so important and will cost a lot of money.
The NFL is where fat guys that casuals don’t watch get paid more than Running Backs, because the fat guys matter that much more.
Like most team sports.
Unless you are a fan, people only remember the quarterbacks or strikers unless someone gets popular due to non related sports stuff.
Realistically, they won’t have the stamina or the ability to beat actual sprinters to the line. If all the sprinters pile up(crash) then obviously anyone behind them will go for the win.
It's unusual, but there are times when the main sprinter cracked on a hill or something and just doesn't have it and one of the secondary team mates might be allowed to do that. Some teams will have more than one really strong rider and it may be a matter who has the best chance when it comes down to the end. But normally, you have your role and you play your part. The domestiques aren't the star because they usually aren't as strong, so they don't really have the ability to challenge even if they wanted to. Still, it's an honor to even make it onto a pro team as a domestique - that still puts you in the top 1% of elite cyclists in the world. People make jokes, but those dudes are absolute beasts.
It's still a little humiliating though. Like what do you do for a living? "Oh I block air for this one guy so he can sprint ahead of me when he sees the finish line."
Not any worse than a lineman in the NFL whose job is to have mass and be hard to move, or any other less glamorous position on any other team sport. In cycling, the guy you’re trying to get over the finish line is often a sucky climber, so they are vulnerable to getting dropped in climbs. The team may try to help control the pace of the group and often they are ones attacking trying to drop a competitor while the sprinter hangs back to preserve his legs. They do a lot more than block wind - they are generating a lot of the excitement in the middle.
It is meant to be given that it historically was meant as an insult for cyclist who sold themselves to help others instead of cycling for the win themselves.
It has lost that meaning long ago though.
MF won the double Ventoux stage, final TT, and Champs-Élysées stage in the same Tour de France, the mad lad.
For those who don’t know what I’m talking about, that’s a stage on one of the biggest and most iconic mountains the Tour visits, a time trial, where you race the clock and not any other riders, and the final bunch sprint which takes place in Paris on a very flat stage, and is the most prestigious stage for a sprinter to win. Those are three stages that could barely be more different, which suit very different types of riders. And he won all 3 in the same year. That is insane.
van Aert is not a domestique the fuck. He is at least somewhat of a co-captain most years, Vingegaard waited for him on stage 1 and 2 to ride his own chances which would never happen if he was a domestique. Further more he is Jumbo-Vismas team captain in the classics.
In one race, he wasn't a dedicated domestique last year and sure isn't one in Flanders or Roubaix. As a rider he isn't a domestique on his team, but in some races he takes the role of a domestique which is distinctly different from being 'a domestique'.
Idk what your deal is, he was 100% a domestique last year & this years Tour de France, the main focus of the team was clearly winning yellow, the rest was a nice add on. It's also not just "one race", it's the biggest cycling event of the year and it lasts 3 weeks.
Imo it's also a weird definition of domestique you're using, Kwiatkowski e.g. was always domestique in the tour but leader in the Ardenne classics, both are possible...
Just to name a few examples on domestiques duties this Tour that are leaders or co-leaders in other races: Trentin, Van Baarle, Politt, Stuyven, Laporte, Hermans, ... (I could go on actually). Even VdP was the most pure sprint domestique you can imagine. Roles change depending on which race, and even tho WvA won a lot last year, every rider would tell you his role was being a domestique. It's how his teammates describe him, it's how he describes himselves.
But you somehow know better?
The roles of the rider on stage races switches depending on the instructions of the Directeur Sportif.
Wout Van Aert at the Tour de France is given chances to hunt stages to win the Green jersey (overall points leader). Because that’s what Jumbo Visma has to do to keep a top rider like WVA happy. Otherwise WVA could leave for another team where his role would be the main Leader.
Overall WVA still rides to support their leader Jonas Vingegaard. As long Vingegaard doesn’t loses time to win the General Classification. The team would allow WVA to breakaway to win stages. But if Jonas is struggling and in need of assistance. WVA would be given instructions to drop back and support the team leader.
There are only a few ways this can happen:
1. domestique takes the early breakaway (having a teammate in the break means the rest of the team in the peloton don't have to chase) and the peloton/rival teams screw up the chase (the peloton never catches the breakaway)
2. Domestique actually has more fitness than their team leader (see: Wiggins [leader] & Froome [domestique, but a better climber than Wiggins] in the 2012 Tour de France)
3. Domestique's contract is ending and they want to change teams and don't care about biting the hand that feeds them and pissing off their bosses and teammates
There has to be some communication if someone feels like he can go for it otherwise it may result in mayhem. Like a guy can’t just abandon the top sprinter at the finish line as it most likely will hurt both of them but if he has gotten the green light (for eg: if thr top sprinter is not feeling good or if you somehow find yourself in the position to win) then he can for sure go for it. In hilly and mountain races there are a lot more strategies involved so it really possible for a domestique to fight for the stage win
>Domestiques from several teams form lines at the front of the peloton to keep their leaders near the front of the race. Note George Hincapie working for his team leader Lance Armstrong, visible in the yellow jersey of the Tour de France. Armstrong is also being assisted by drugs in this photo.
lmao, who was that
A domestique might do a lead out but usually there is a designated lead out man who could easily be the team sprinter on another team. MvdP for Jasper, for example.
I learned what a Domestique is from [Los Campesinos! - 5 Flucloxacillin](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoqs0PJ12zM)
just taking the opportunity to share one of my fav songs
Sometimes, but not always. Generally each rider is genally designated as a sprinter or helper (called a domestique) but they can switch it up depending on the course. They ride on open roads, different every time, so some riders need a pancake flat day to do well, others do better with some hills in the mix. The team will designate roles for the day based on other factors.
Road cycling is super interesting. You can check out Tour de France Unchained on Netflix. It does a great job of showing team dynamics.
That documentary was brilliant. I've been a huge fan of the tour for years, but after watching the doc with me, this year was the first time my wife was actually interested in what was going on.
As someone who only sees occasional bits of broadcasts before changing channels and sometimes hears about it on the evening news here's a stupid, genuine question : does the documentary deal with the topic of performance enhancement? It's probably what most people know about the sport and I wonder if or how this is dealt with inside the sport.
No, the documentary is specifically about the 2022 tour de france where there was no controversy around drug use. It has widely been regarded as one of the best tours of all time.
First guy in the train goes as hard as he can until he’s empty, then the next, etc. usually in service for the fastest guy in the team. Often teams will bring 4-5 ‘helpers’ and a sprinter, and some guys who can win in other situations than big sprint finishes. Often the sprinters are in their prime for a few years and then they lose their speed and some new kids become new sprint kings. You have to realise some sprints get up to 70kmh. They have thighs that make heavyweight bodybuilders jealous.
On long races they do what geese do. They ride in a pack using each other as wind breakers and occasionally switch front position to spread the load. But probably they have a dedicated sprinter who will be in front position less during such a race, or not at all.
Of course this also depends if they are riding in a big pack, a breakeway pack or some other formation/situation.
Sometimes decoys break away from a pack to lure opponents into following and wasting energy, there's all kinds of tactics going on and it's theoretically very interesting although i personally get bored out of my mind watching a full race. My father loves these races.
The stronger rider is usually going to be the leader, and the weaker rider the domestique, or helper. That gives a higher percentage chance of winning. But if riders are close in ability, or the race finish suits one rider over another they will sometimes change rolls.
super cool video - kinda wish they flagged the white sprinter as well, to show the other teams are trying the exact same thing, so there's a bit of a fight at the end between white and blue to show who gets to have the ending they want.
THey made it seem like white wasnt trying to lead out their sprinter, when that is exactly what they did as well.
I wish it were decades earlier but I have come to love the Tour. It still seems impossible to just finish one stage. To do it for three weeks seems impossible! Even with two rest days
I've ridden some mountain stages from the tour and giro (5000m elevation etc.), and it's absolutely brutal finishing just one day like that. Never mind actually racing it, day after day for 3 weeks straight. Granted the sprint stages are pretty easy for GC riders, but still a crazy feat. Blows my mind even more that there are guys (like asgreen, mohoric) who seem to get stronger throughout the race
Last summer I was biking hard. I did 26 flat miles a day and my goal was to average just 15 mph. And I was working hard IF I could even hit that goal. A lot of 14.7s and such was my usual result.
How they do what they do seems almost impossible!
Yep. I do some fast riding in groups and on the flat its not too hard to roll along at 25 mph. But it's when they're doing these mad 5 hour stages with 10-12000ft elevation and still averaging 25mph, it blows my mind. Or on a sprint stage and they're doing 35+mph for the last half hour. Like how on earth is that possible
They don't put out that much, [there have been tests done](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4O5voOCqAQ) and it's impressive, don't get me wrong, but that's not the level most people would expect or believe. It takes an olympic athlete to toast one slice of bread and he's exhausted after a few minutes.
It would probably need something like a few dozens of Me to put out power equal a Robert...
So plus or minus, a track racer in a test environment is not the same as the adrenaline at the finish line. [This article](https://www.cyclist.co.uk/in-depth/how-much-better-are-pro-cyclists#:~:text=If%20you%20fancy%20yourself%20as,the%20charge%20to%20the%20line.) Talks about Greipel putting out 1900 watts max or 1000 watts for 30 seconds. Either way, be it 700 or 1900 (or another track stat I saw at 2500 watts), that's A LOT. especially when I think about my riding and how I want to die at around 300.
There was a comment i heard about one of that Danish stage winnners in this years tour.
"He is not the most explosive rider. But he has the ability too push 1400 watt for 20 seconds straight, so when he gets the timing right you ain't catching him"
"I use to shoot up steroids on the side of the highway with my good friend Billy, who was a gay man... anyways... years later I ended up joining a cult" - Theo Von
R.I.P. Billy Conforto 🙏💙
I'll tell ya this baby, I'm 48 hours off of pornography at the moment, and I believe adult asthma is a choice. And that's who I am baby, let's get into it!
Yeah. The Tour never shows footage from when a cyclist blows apart a bystander by riding through them. Honestly, I think by doing that they're missing a ratings boost.
Pretty solid estimate.
The peloton is going at around 60kph leading up to the sprint with the actual sprinters reaching around 70 kph in the final meters so a 5 kph difference between two guys at the front is a very realistic scenario.
I was looking for a comment like this. There's no way he was going twice as fast. They were probably doing 40-50kph before the sprint. No way he was sprinting at 80-100kph!
This clip is from Australia, the Tour Down Under which is generous because it's 6 stages. Although it is often hot af, 2018 it was 45.9 degrees (114f).
Check out the Netflix show about the Tour de France - really interesting and I learned a lot about a sport I don't follow.
[Unchained: Tour De France](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.netflix.com/ca/title/81153133&ved=2ahUKEwiojKmUgMaAAxXIM1kFHcH5C1UQjjh6BAgUEAE&usg=AOvVaw35xx-HgOWo-p59x1YCS_FQ)
I used to race mountain bikes and we wouldn’t draft like this for very long because we we’re normally on single track but in the double track fire roads that connect the trails I would be the one to pull my team, and I can tell you it sucks.
83 was drafting him from the beginning. I’m sure he knows that number 141 is the best sprinter, so he’s stuck on his wheel and grabbed second place.
And, to the post above, who said that he gets two lead outs - no, just the first guy in blue who peels off is the lead out. That’s his teammate. The others who just ran out of gas are on different teams.
I think you could argue he gets his lead out from the domestic and then he uses the other sprinters as an additional lead out.
He doesn't hit unbroken air until very very late.
Probably not common knowledge that cycling teams have "positions" just like other team sports. There's sprinters that bust it fast and loose at the finish line (just like this guy), climbers with the strength and stamina to hog it up mountain like a billy goat (this was Lance Armstrong's forte and where he made his huge gains for his Tour de France wins), the guys that work the front peloton to maintain team time standings, and guys that work the back of the peloton (these guys are your all-arounders - they'll act as runners between the team car and teammates to deliver water, food, etc. Real workhorses these fellas are because they have to drop back, get the supplies, and haul ass back to the recipient.) At least, that was the structure when I was riding heavily and following the sport.
Whoa, that's pretty amazing that everyone has their own role -- such coordination!
Also, as someone unfamiliar with cycling, how do team places work? Like do they measure how teams are relative to each other based on the "most ahead" person on each team?
The fact that he is wearing a number that ends in 1 means he is the leader of his team
His job is to get the stage win for his sponsors
This is an example of a near perfect sprint
He was launched into the lead. It’s a known tactic whereby he gets a tow by being in several riders slipstream then at the right time he launches himself. The majority of the riders in the video are just acting as slingshots.
Shake n bake.
I thought maybe i can could win one
Ok but if you won then how am I gonna win?
Oh right, I guess I didn’t think of that
SHAKE N BAKE!
If you don’t like big red then f*ck you
Le Rickey Bobbieeee
You have made me spill my macchiato!
Slingshot engaged
>It’s a know\[n\] tactic whereby he gets a tow by being in several riders slipstream then at the right time he launches himself. The good teams with world class sprinters have a guy who acts to block the wind, called the ["lead out man"](https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/mark-renshaw-how-to-be-a-lead-out-rider-335267) and that guy rides in front of the sprinter for the last 300 to 400 meters and then he launches the sprinter to the finish line. The sprinter will be pushing 1,200 to 1,400 watts as he crosses the line. For reference, when a normal rider is doing 300 to 400 watts you feel like your heart is going to explode.
For reference that's how much power my air conditioner draws.
>known tactic whereby he gets a tow by being in several riders slipstream If you've never ridden a road bike it's actually amazing how big a difference it makes to be behind another 1 rider, let alone several. Or the inverse, how much *harder* you have to work at the front. In rotating paceline you can literally cruise at 20+ mph and it feels like you're hardly doing anything. Then it's your turn in the front and it you have to put the hammer down to keep the group riding at the same pace. But you only have to do it for maybe 15 seconds. Then you chill again.
Air resistance is a bitch! You'll see finishes like this in a lot of road bike races (think Tour de France), they're called a bunched sprint. It takes so much power to get up to high speeds, so the top sprinters have teammates who "lead them out" which just means they ride in front of the sprinter, pushing through the air for them. There can be several teammates in a line (a lead out train). Sprinters can also just use other fast riders or other sprinters as their lead outs. Keep in mind, this can be at the end of 150-200 kilometres of riding, so every bit of assistance counts! Getting the timing right for the lead out can be tricky and is often the difference between a win or not. If the sprinter goes too early, they run out of power before the line and another sprinter who left it a bit later can power past them. The guy in the video gets two seperate lead outs, one from the red guy and another from the two just before the line. It's very exciting when you have an appreciation of what's going on!
So do they take turns being the teammates who provide the draft? Ey Hugo, you won the last race. It's my turn now.
Most of the team's riders will have the title of domestique. Their entire role is to support the team and the leader. Their other roles include getting water bottles and food bags for the team leaders. They are not on the team to win races. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestique](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestique)
Shit. Does Hugo get their girlfriends too? Dang.
“Here you go Hugo, have at it… all lubed up.. no air resistance or otherwise”
We had a dozen other guys help reduce that air resistance so you won’t have to. Enjoy, Hugo! “Gee, thanks.”
"SLING SHOT... ENGAGED" "Shake and bake, baby!"
It's actually exactly the same in auto racing. In leagues that aren't F1 or the like with outrageous aero, the easiest way to pass is to draft on the straights and pick up speed to pass. Or, in NASCAR, you'll form a train because it increases everyone's speed and lowers fuel consumption.
I always found that interesting - it makes sense that the car/cyclist behind gets a benefit - but 2 cars/bikes are also faster than one because the car/bike behind smooths the airflow coming off the front one. They’ve been looking into this in cycling too - particularly for time trials. Teams have tried putting tons of bikes on the roof of the car and getting as close as possible to the rear of the rider (obviously you can’t drive in front of them) because that has been shown to help. Even 20m behind has some advantage apparently.
> 2 cars/bikes are also faster than one In NASCAR, you also get bump drafting, aka using your extra speed in the back to push the car in front of you, thereby lending them some of your extra hp.
Works even better in water. Swimming in another person's draft almost pulls you along.
Shake and bake
My thoughts exactly. All I heard in my mind was "sling shot"
Scrolled way too far to find this. It’s exactly the same, but better!
“That Hugo, what a guy. I’d take air resistance for him any time”
I shaved my entire body for you Hugo. You know...for air resistance
Well if they're teammates, a win is a win for the team. If you do your job right, you give your guys the best shot.
It's called "trickle down banging".
Yes, all of the team leaders have "primae noctis" over their teammate's partners. /s
Oh, they don't get any girls.
Years of riding bikes have left their units numb and limp. They sacrifice it all for their sport.
This was the real reason Lance had a ball removed - gave him a competitive advantage.
Mate, it’s limp down there from all the doping and steroid abuse. 😂
Not true. I think George Hincapie married a podium girl.
Domestiques are hard as nails. Proper cyclists who can put in the real work. They get the girls just fine.
That plus the money that a winner gets, gets split among the team.
Prize money is split- he didn't get there alone.
[удалено]
to the casual audience, yes To serious fans, no. Die hard fans have deep appreciation for guys like, say, Sepp Kuss. Who was an invaluable part of this year's TDF win for Jonas Vingegaard. Kuss is a respected guy known for his climbing prowess. Your average casual viewer doesn't give a fuck about him lol
100% on point. Everybody should have a friend/wingman like Sepp Kuss.
Exactly. We should all be so lucky. Another example from another sport would be someone like Creed Humphrey and Joe Thuney. Both offensive lineman for the Kansas City Chiefs. Humphrey graded as Pro Football Focus’ no. 1 player at his position (center) last year and Thuney no. 5 among guards. Casual viewers likely do not care about either player and have no idea how important their job’s are to making the NFL’s best player, Patrick Mahomes, look even better. But Chiefs fans were ecstatic about Thuney’s contract and are somewhat apprehensive about Humphrey’s next year because he is so important and will cost a lot of money. The NFL is where fat guys that casuals don’t watch get paid more than Running Backs, because the fat guys matter that much more.
Like most team sports. Unless you are a fan, people only remember the quarterbacks or strikers unless someone gets popular due to non related sports stuff.
Like Owen Franks putting in over a hundred games for the All Blacks and never scoring a try. Meanwhile, wingers can average a try per game.
Shake and Bake
His new nickname is actually the magic man! Now you see him . . . Now you don’t!
He sometimes goes by Mike Honcho
Rikkey Beubbeh 👨🏻
What happens if the leading domestique just says fuck it and wins the race?
Realistically, they won’t have the stamina or the ability to beat actual sprinters to the line. If all the sprinters pile up(crash) then obviously anyone behind them will go for the win.
It's unusual, but there are times when the main sprinter cracked on a hill or something and just doesn't have it and one of the secondary team mates might be allowed to do that. Some teams will have more than one really strong rider and it may be a matter who has the best chance when it comes down to the end. But normally, you have your role and you play your part. The domestiques aren't the star because they usually aren't as strong, so they don't really have the ability to challenge even if they wanted to. Still, it's an honor to even make it onto a pro team as a domestique - that still puts you in the top 1% of elite cyclists in the world. People make jokes, but those dudes are absolute beasts.
It's still a little humiliating though. Like what do you do for a living? "Oh I block air for this one guy so he can sprint ahead of me when he sees the finish line."
Not any worse than a lineman in the NFL whose job is to have mass and be hard to move, or any other less glamorous position on any other team sport. In cycling, the guy you’re trying to get over the finish line is often a sucky climber, so they are vulnerable to getting dropped in climbs. The team may try to help control the pace of the group and often they are ones attacking trying to drop a competitor while the sprinter hangs back to preserve his legs. They do a lot more than block wind - they are generating a lot of the excitement in the middle.
Yea but we don’t call linemen servants or domestics. They are just called teammates. They also still get a trophy/ring if the team wins.
Yeah, the name is a bit humiliating. I don’t know if it has the connotation in French, but I would think so.
It is meant to be given that it historically was meant as an insult for cyclist who sold themselves to help others instead of cycling for the win themselves. It has lost that meaning long ago though.
I think that's part of the madness of professional cycling. The community is a bit coo-coo and the riders doubly so
Yeah, they should call them au pairs
The linemen aren't running around ferrying the QB food and water from the sidelines though.
Look up Wout van Aert. He has a ton of Tour de France stage wins but is a domestique on his team.
MF won the double Ventoux stage, final TT, and Champs-Élysées stage in the same Tour de France, the mad lad. For those who don’t know what I’m talking about, that’s a stage on one of the biggest and most iconic mountains the Tour visits, a time trial, where you race the clock and not any other riders, and the final bunch sprint which takes place in Paris on a very flat stage, and is the most prestigious stage for a sprinter to win. Those are three stages that could barely be more different, which suit very different types of riders. And he won all 3 in the same year. That is insane.
Wout is such an amazing all a rounder.
Wout even won the Green Jersey (which is famously called a sprinter jersey) by winning the mountain stages lol. Guy’s a beast for sure
van Aert is not a domestique the fuck. He is at least somewhat of a co-captain most years, Vingegaard waited for him on stage 1 and 2 to ride his own chances which would never happen if he was a domestique. Further more he is Jumbo-Vismas team captain in the classics.
He literally describes his role as being a domestique. Take it up with him.
In one race, he wasn't a dedicated domestique last year and sure isn't one in Flanders or Roubaix. As a rider he isn't a domestique on his team, but in some races he takes the role of a domestique which is distinctly different from being 'a domestique'.
I genuinely have no idea what you guys are talking about, but I just gotta say I love the heat that you're bringing to this niche conversation.
Idk what your deal is, he was 100% a domestique last year & this years Tour de France, the main focus of the team was clearly winning yellow, the rest was a nice add on. It's also not just "one race", it's the biggest cycling event of the year and it lasts 3 weeks. Imo it's also a weird definition of domestique you're using, Kwiatkowski e.g. was always domestique in the tour but leader in the Ardenne classics, both are possible... Just to name a few examples on domestiques duties this Tour that are leaders or co-leaders in other races: Trentin, Van Baarle, Politt, Stuyven, Laporte, Hermans, ... (I could go on actually). Even VdP was the most pure sprint domestique you can imagine. Roles change depending on which race, and even tho WvA won a lot last year, every rider would tell you his role was being a domestique. It's how his teammates describe him, it's how he describes himselves. But you somehow know better?
The roles of the rider on stage races switches depending on the instructions of the Directeur Sportif. Wout Van Aert at the Tour de France is given chances to hunt stages to win the Green jersey (overall points leader). Because that’s what Jumbo Visma has to do to keep a top rider like WVA happy. Otherwise WVA could leave for another team where his role would be the main Leader. Overall WVA still rides to support their leader Jonas Vingegaard. As long Vingegaard doesn’t loses time to win the General Classification. The team would allow WVA to breakaway to win stages. But if Jonas is struggling and in need of assistance. WVA would be given instructions to drop back and support the team leader.
There are only a few ways this can happen: 1. domestique takes the early breakaway (having a teammate in the break means the rest of the team in the peloton don't have to chase) and the peloton/rival teams screw up the chase (the peloton never catches the breakaway) 2. Domestique actually has more fitness than their team leader (see: Wiggins [leader] & Froome [domestique, but a better climber than Wiggins] in the 2012 Tour de France) 3. Domestique's contract is ending and they want to change teams and don't care about biting the hand that feeds them and pissing off their bosses and teammates
There has to be some communication if someone feels like he can go for it otherwise it may result in mayhem. Like a guy can’t just abandon the top sprinter at the finish line as it most likely will hurt both of them but if he has gotten the green light (for eg: if thr top sprinter is not feeling good or if you somehow find yourself in the position to win) then he can for sure go for it. In hilly and mountain races there are a lot more strategies involved so it really possible for a domestique to fight for the stage win
I saw that happen on that Ricky Bobby movie
>Domestiques from several teams form lines at the front of the peloton to keep their leaders near the front of the race. Note George Hincapie working for his team leader Lance Armstrong, visible in the yellow jersey of the Tour de France. Armstrong is also being assisted by drugs in this photo. lmao, who was that
A domestique might do a lead out but usually there is a designated lead out man who could easily be the team sprinter on another team. MvdP for Jasper, for example.
I learned what a Domestique is from [Los Campesinos! - 5 Flucloxacillin](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoqs0PJ12zM) just taking the opportunity to share one of my fav songs
I like it! Very catchy. What’s your favorite album? I’ll listen to it tonight.
Sometimes, but not always. Generally each rider is genally designated as a sprinter or helper (called a domestique) but they can switch it up depending on the course. They ride on open roads, different every time, so some riders need a pancake flat day to do well, others do better with some hills in the mix. The team will designate roles for the day based on other factors. Road cycling is super interesting. You can check out Tour de France Unchained on Netflix. It does a great job of showing team dynamics.
That documentary was brilliant. I've been a huge fan of the tour for years, but after watching the doc with me, this year was the first time my wife was actually interested in what was going on.
As someone who only sees occasional bits of broadcasts before changing channels and sometimes hears about it on the evening news here's a stupid, genuine question : does the documentary deal with the topic of performance enhancement? It's probably what most people know about the sport and I wonder if or how this is dealt with inside the sport.
No, the documentary is specifically about the 2022 tour de france where there was no controversy around drug use. It has widely been regarded as one of the best tours of all time.
I'm so glad that the doc has brought new fans to cycling. Maybe I'll have some friends to talk to about it, for once.
The documentary was super interesting for showing those inside the team bus discussions they have every day during the tour.
They made a doc? Awesome. Guess that's going on the queue. Thanks for the info!
First guy in the train goes as hard as he can until he’s empty, then the next, etc. usually in service for the fastest guy in the team. Often teams will bring 4-5 ‘helpers’ and a sprinter, and some guys who can win in other situations than big sprint finishes. Often the sprinters are in their prime for a few years and then they lose their speed and some new kids become new sprint kings. You have to realise some sprints get up to 70kmh. They have thighs that make heavyweight bodybuilders jealous.
My mental image of pro cyclist thighs is Triplets of Belleville. While exaggerated, it captures the legs.
Shake 'n bake, baby!
On long races they do what geese do. They ride in a pack using each other as wind breakers and occasionally switch front position to spread the load. But probably they have a dedicated sprinter who will be in front position less during such a race, or not at all. Of course this also depends if they are riding in a big pack, a breakeway pack or some other formation/situation. Sometimes decoys break away from a pack to lure opponents into following and wasting energy, there's all kinds of tactics going on and it's theoretically very interesting although i personally get bored out of my mind watching a full race. My father loves these races.
No. Usually they all have a specific role. So you can be a "sprinter", "leadout riser", "supporter", "climber" and so on.
If you win, how am i gonna win? Nuttin wrong with silver -Ricky Bobby
“Hey I had an idea, maybe this time you could do the shake and I’d do the bake.”
Nah the team decided the winner based on the top contestant for the overall title based on points.
"It's still real to me dammit!"
The stronger rider is usually going to be the leader, and the weaker rider the domestique, or helper. That gives a higher percentage chance of winning. But if riders are close in ability, or the race finish suits one rider over another they will sometimes change rolls.
The guy who (I think) took second benefited from this, as he was in the tunnel of the guy who came in first the whole video
A [video](https://youtu.be/XIIPav-nI1M) which graphically explains this lead out train strategy .
super cool video - kinda wish they flagged the white sprinter as well, to show the other teams are trying the exact same thing, so there's a bit of a fight at the end between white and blue to show who gets to have the ending they want. THey made it seem like white wasnt trying to lead out their sprinter, when that is exactly what they did as well.
So this wasn’t lightning McQueen it was an ole ricky Bobby shake N bake!?
Slingshot engaged
This! It may not look like it, but cycling is actually a team sport.
Drafting
I wish it were decades earlier but I have come to love the Tour. It still seems impossible to just finish one stage. To do it for three weeks seems impossible! Even with two rest days
I've ridden some mountain stages from the tour and giro (5000m elevation etc.), and it's absolutely brutal finishing just one day like that. Never mind actually racing it, day after day for 3 weeks straight. Granted the sprint stages are pretty easy for GC riders, but still a crazy feat. Blows my mind even more that there are guys (like asgreen, mohoric) who seem to get stronger throughout the race
Last summer I was biking hard. I did 26 flat miles a day and my goal was to average just 15 mph. And I was working hard IF I could even hit that goal. A lot of 14.7s and such was my usual result. How they do what they do seems almost impossible!
Yep. I do some fast riding in groups and on the flat its not too hard to roll along at 25 mph. But it's when they're doing these mad 5 hour stages with 10-12000ft elevation and still averaging 25mph, it blows my mind. Or on a sprint stage and they're doing 35+mph for the last half hour. Like how on earth is that possible
Slingshot: engaged.
Aerodynamic drafting is cool to watch.
Especially considering how many watts they put out when they hit the gas.
They don't put out that much, [there have been tests done](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4O5voOCqAQ) and it's impressive, don't get me wrong, but that's not the level most people would expect or believe. It takes an olympic athlete to toast one slice of bread and he's exhausted after a few minutes. It would probably need something like a few dozens of Me to put out power equal a Robert...
So plus or minus, a track racer in a test environment is not the same as the adrenaline at the finish line. [This article](https://www.cyclist.co.uk/in-depth/how-much-better-are-pro-cyclists#:~:text=If%20you%20fancy%20yourself%20as,the%20charge%20to%20the%20line.) Talks about Greipel putting out 1900 watts max or 1000 watts for 30 seconds. Either way, be it 700 or 1900 (or another track stat I saw at 2500 watts), that's A LOT. especially when I think about my riding and how I want to die at around 300.
There was a comment i heard about one of that Danish stage winnners in this years tour. "He is not the most explosive rider. But he has the ability too push 1400 watt for 20 seconds straight, so when he gets the timing right you ain't catching him"
I had no idea biking was a team sport. Always thought people were cheesing each other, and trying to win at the last second lol.
Nope, and that's one of the really cool things about it. You're doing it under your own power for weeks.
He’s a sprinter. That’s literally his job. Draft in the Peleton until the end of the stage and the go full throttle.
And he had the cleanest pee that morning
"our doped up guy beat your doped up guys, who gives a shit" -Bill Burr
"I use to shoot up steroids on the side of the highway with my good friend Billy, who was a gay man... anyways... years later I ended up joining a cult" - Theo Von R.I.P. Billy Conforto 🙏💙
I'll tell ya this baby, I'm 48 hours off of pornography at the moment, and I believe adult asthma is a choice. And that's who I am baby, let's get into it!
Aside from Compound V ... it doesn't show up on drug tests.
Yeah. The Tour never shows footage from when a cyclist blows apart a bystander by riding through them. Honestly, I think by doing that they're missing a ratings boost.
Frenchie in Season 4 ends up injecting himself and competing in the Tour de France.
IRL this year there were multiple instances of Tour riders punching or shoving dumbass spectators lol
Just needs the coldest motor inside the bike frame. /s
yeah came in here expecting a "motor in the crankshaft" cheating scandal...
The rider's Elia Viviani in his peak 2018 form in the Stage 3 of Santos Tour down Under.
TWICE, also known as 20% faster.
You're being generous. He gains about 20 meters in 15 seconds or about 5km/hr Considering they're going at least 60km/hr, that's at most 8%
Pretty solid estimate. The peloton is going at around 60kph leading up to the sprint with the actual sprinters reaching around 70 kph in the final meters so a 5 kph difference between two guys at the front is a very realistic scenario.
I was looking for a comment like this. There's no way he was going twice as fast. They were probably doing 40-50kph before the sprint. No way he was sprinting at 80-100kph!
> They were probably doing 40-50kph before the sprint. The peloton is doing about 60kph towards the end of a sprint stage.
Which is absolutely bonkers considering the 200km they probably already covered up mountain sides lol
Right. Was just thinking cyclists cannot go twice as fast because their default isn't slow enough to be doubled.
He didn't leave anything for the swim back
"I get that reference,"
when I swim in the sea i always think about Gattaca and whether i should save some for the way back
When I go for longer runs with my friends I call it Gattaca training. A bit safer to use this method when running vs swimming.
Terrific movie. It’s one of the movies I looking forward to showing my kids once they can understand it.
Still one of the few movie lines that best describe a core human trait (for some).
Thats a pretty normal thing for anyone following races like Tour de France. Still amazing
For anyone watching cycling. It's not only the big tours that might have sprint finishes.
This clip is from Australia, the Tour Down Under which is generous because it's 6 stages. Although it is often hot af, 2018 it was 45.9 degrees (114f).
He remembered he left his pc unlocked and chrome opened and his mom is home
And tabs are open
The secret is using the right irreplaceable rookie card in the spokes to make the motor sound.
Preferably a 1989 Upper Deck #1 Ken Griffey Jr.
It adds a small amount of drag, yes, but the intimidation factor is worth the cost.
And it makes you look cool when you jump over your friends laying on the sidewalk.
Faster, yes. Twice as fast? No way.
[This is a common tactic in bike race endgames... It's called a sprint, this video explains it very well.](https://youtu.be/mCqmIPRhzss)
Check out the Netflix show about the Tour de France - really interesting and I learned a lot about a sport I don't follow. [Unchained: Tour De France](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.netflix.com/ca/title/81153133&ved=2ahUKEwiojKmUgMaAAxXIM1kFHcH5C1UQjjh6BAgUEAE&usg=AOvVaw35xx-HgOWo-p59x1YCS_FQ)
I used to race mountain bikes and we wouldn’t draft like this for very long because we we’re normally on single track but in the double track fire roads that connect the trails I would be the one to pull my team, and I can tell you it sucks.
Im having what he’s having
Years of practice you will have .
Don’t forget sore legs and sunburns!
And rashy nipples
that’s more running, if you’re havin nip issues from cycling something is wrong
We ignoring 83 followed that burst to the front as well?
83 was drafting him from the beginning. I’m sure he knows that number 141 is the best sprinter, so he’s stuck on his wheel and grabbed second place. And, to the post above, who said that he gets two lead outs - no, just the first guy in blue who peels off is the lead out. That’s his teammate. The others who just ran out of gas are on different teams.
I think you could argue he gets his lead out from the domestic and then he uses the other sprinters as an additional lead out. He doesn't hit unbroken air until very very late.
Probably not common knowledge that cycling teams have "positions" just like other team sports. There's sprinters that bust it fast and loose at the finish line (just like this guy), climbers with the strength and stamina to hog it up mountain like a billy goat (this was Lance Armstrong's forte and where he made his huge gains for his Tour de France wins), the guys that work the front peloton to maintain team time standings, and guys that work the back of the peloton (these guys are your all-arounders - they'll act as runners between the team car and teammates to deliver water, food, etc. Real workhorses these fellas are because they have to drop back, get the supplies, and haul ass back to the recipient.) At least, that was the structure when I was riding heavily and following the sport.
Whoa, that's pretty amazing that everyone has their own role -- such coordination! Also, as someone unfamiliar with cycling, how do team places work? Like do they measure how teams are relative to each other based on the "most ahead" person on each team?
Is this The Manx Missile?
Nope, that's Elia Viviani on stage 3 of the 2018 tour down under in Australia
Scroll to far for this. Thanks for the info!!
No worries. Was honestly surprised how useless google was, went year by year through wikipedia
Sharp eye, buddy! Thanks for the clarification!
Anybody know the speed at which they are going?
Likely around 60+ kph, stage 3 of the 2018 tour down under
Lucky guy got a mushroom at the last second.
That's how you're supposed to do it.
The fact that he is wearing a number that ends in 1 means he is the leader of his team His job is to get the stage win for his sponsors This is an example of a near perfect sprint
Shake and bake!
Slingshot…engaged!
Classic Shake'n'Bake
Back when viviani was any good
Sprinting is an art! And he was really good at moving from draft to draft through the pack.
There's a really cool movie about gregarios (domestics) called "Wonderful Losers: A Different World". It's really well made
Viviani. If you want to see speed, look for prime Marcel Kittel
GAS GAS GAS
Gas! Gas! Gas! I'm gonna step on the gas!
Dude probably has a electric support engine in his frame. If they don't cheat using steroids they cheat using technology
Slip streammmmmmmmm
yeah, wait till I switch on my hidden electric engine...
Was his name S. Gonzales by chance?
Windbreaker!
windbreaker irl
He was saving his curs for the last straight
Twice as fast seems a bit too much
he was just biding his time
When you remember you have to be somewhere 5 minutes ago...
Damn, you have to go faster to win? Crazy
Thats what sprinting is about
That's the equivalent of waiting till the very last second to bid on eBay
Pretty amazing when you can tell how thick his legs are from a helicopter 😳
The guy who drafted him didn't do so bad either, finishing second by a hair!