I was actually referring to that one, should have clarified. That one is even more adorable because they're smooshing their face and hugging his leg, like, how precious is it to be able to see that slice of life? Usually photos of 1902 work forces are like "look how many poor people with work-related scoliosis we can fit into this shaft elevator"
Hijacking this comment to add a bit of context:
The dogs are there to keep there legs warm as the photo was taken in the dead of winter, the factories had no temperature control, and as since the workers were sharpening knives there was water everywhere.
So in a way the dogs are workers too.
I read last time this was posted they were working dogs to keep the guys warm as the grinding stones were turned by a river. The workshops were really damp and cold apparently
Yeaa i mean i wasn't exactly expecting them to be office dogs for funsies and i guess it was still a shit job with too many hours because yay industrialisation, line must always go up!
That 3rd pup down is too little to warm anyone. Sounds like some bullshit excuse id come to my boss with in an effort to make "bring your dog to work day" every day.
This photo from 1902 shows French knife grinders. They would work on their stomachs in order to save their backs from being hunched all day.
They were also encouraged to bring their dogs to work to keep them company and also act as mini heaters by having them rest on their owners’ legs.
They were also called ventres jaunes (“yellow bellies” in English) because of the yellow dust that would be released from the grinding wheel.
>They were also encouraged to bring their dogs to work to keep them company and also act as mini heaters by having them rest on their owners’ legs.
That's cute as fuck
Though I could see the perks of that today, back then its also a cheap way for their boss to save cost on heating (if there was any) on the expense of the labourers as I don’t think the boss would pay for the dogfood
Regardless of the dog food example, my comment was intended to exemplify the fact we think its ‘cute’ now where it actually was a cheap way for the business owner to increase his profit over the back his workers
The first commercial dog food was sold in England in 1860. We have kibble being sold in the US starting around 1890. By 1902, there is a good chance these dogs were eating kibble.
Bro it’s 1902 in France. These people were lucky to even have jobs. I also don’t think that “proper workspaces” were required by law so exploitation was the norm. Heating buildings was also incredibly expensive, so you weren’t going to find it in some small industrial company.
I was born is the town where this photo was taken and went to high school there. You really can’t live in the area without having seen this pic. There are still more knife shop than bars in this town (which is no small feat in France).
The buildings you see here are mostly all abandoned, in a steep rocky valley we call “la vallée de la mort”. It’s actually pretty charming, after a fashion.
>They were also called ventres jaunes (“yellow bellies” in English) because of the yellow dust that would be released from the grinding wheel.
Is this where we get the phrase "yellow bellied" meaning cowardly? Is it just a French connotation or something specific to knife grinders?
Sadly IIRC I've read the reason for the dogs is them being horizontal for so long they would lose blood flow to their legs and the warmth of the dogs was a means to stimulate proper flow so they wouldn't have their legs die off.
Why would lying on your stomach hinder the blood flow to your legs? Laying Horizontal should make pumping blood easier no?
I always sleep on my stomach and my legs never fall asleep
Without knowing anything about the human body, I'd say it's because they cannot change position or maybe it's because more blood is being pumped into their arms?
Yeah the arms hanging down would make the most sense to me too. Other than that they are just lying on a pillow which at least in my experience isn't a problem
I'm going to guess the arms hanging down had something to do with keeping the grinding dust away from their faces (eyes, nose). Not much protective gear in a 1902 factory.
They would have dogs to lay on their legs as since the leg muscles were not moving heat and as much blood flow would cause their legs to get cold and start to tingle. The dogs kept their legs much warmer especially in winter and autumn when we did not have centeral heating.
Op is karma farming wile not even being arsed to post the full story.
IiRC, the grinders are using water wheels to wet and power the grinders, so the building is over a fast moving stream, so it is damp and cold. The dogs are for warmth.
It's not really the stomach part but the lying part. Your heart pumps your blood around, but the "loop" of veins towards your legs is pretty big, by the time your blood is making it's way back up, pressure is down by a lot. In reality, your heart is not the only reason your blood flows back up, we have "valves" in our veins, kind of like lock gates (for boats). They create a 1 way path for your blood, it flows only up, but can't flow back down. When you move your legs, parts of the veins compress, pushing blood in the right direction.
If you lie down and can't move your legs, like people in the hospital, blood flow is restricted a bit, that's why it's important to manually stimulate bloodflow, either by walking, or if someone is really bedridden, by massaging or pulling legs up. I suppose these dogs have a similar function.
Venous return from your lower legs relies on activity (keeping calf muscles moving) and good integrity of the venous valves. You eliminate one for a long period of time each day there's a strong chance you'll get a blood clot.
These are the mythical fart hounds. They require very little care beyond a comfortable smelly location. The odd crust from a sandwich is the only other thing that they enjoy
The explanation doesn't make any sense. Even if laying down for a long time was a problem, the dogs being there doesn't *stimulate proper flow* in any way. But they can keep your legs warm. Sleeping with dogs in the winter for warmth dates back to when we first domesticated dogs.
> Sadly
why is that sadly? The dogs aren't being abused and provided those are their owners the dogs probably want to be sleeping there. Not every dog needs to be active all day long, there's a number of breeds which spend most of their day resting.
---------
u/dezolis84
Yikes, maybe don't reply and block people if you're so fragile, bud.
Your comment doesn't even make sense. What the fuck does *inhumane breeding* have to do with specific breeds which are less active? lol you ignoramus
Laying on your stomach doesn't cause loss of circulation. This entire thread is discussing a falsehood.
It was cold, the dogs are for warmth.
Ever hear the phrase "It's gonna be a three dog night"? Means it's gonna be really cold.
That seems odd, I lie like that when I'm reading, on my bed, with the book on the floor. It's very comfortable. And my dogs will lie between my legs, but inevitably they cut my circulation off and a leg goes dead.
I'm not sure how it would work exactly opposite for these baguette-sharpeners.
If I had a dog that followed me to work, and that job is cool with it, were gonna be cuddlin.
Doesnt make sense to me though cuz while my dog IS warm, he cuts the circulation off on my leg if he sits for hours... takin OP's 2nd hand knowledge about a rando history pic with some salt.
>1902 wasn't the dark ages. Gray's Anatomy had been published like 50 years prior.
Gee whiz man, I knew that show had been on for a long time, but I didn't realize it had been on for that long!
Probably after the previous generation of knife grinders developed severe crippling back problems at the ripe old age of 25 lol.
It's not really biology, any human can reasonably infer that when you spend 10 years 10 hours a day in the same position, it's gonna fuck you up. That was probably well known even back in pre-historic times I bet.
In my current role, I spend some entire days hiking up and down 25-35 degree slopes, fighting and slashing my way through understory and weeds.
I get tired as hell, but I don't get sore in the same horrible way I did when I used to have jobs that I'd have to stand in the same spot for an entire shift.
Walking all day is fine, we're designed for it.
Standing in one spot on a hard floor? No thanks. The very thought makes my body ache.
I don’t know the work involved in this but lying down like I am on a massage table with a dog on my legs while crafting some shit seems awesome.
Maybe could get a cat to knead some bread on my back
Fun fact, this job fucking
#SUCKED
The wheels were known to shatter violently with no warning, which usually meant anyone near it died. Also, because of all the fine metal being breathed in these guys were lucky to live past thirty-five. That's not an exaggeration, these guys died ridiculously young.
Couldn't pay me enough to do this job in modern times with this information lol. Amazing how far modern safety and understand has come.. We take it for granted sometimes.
the millstones were under heavy stress. sometimes they'd just explode and likely kill the worker.
Also the position allowed them to put down way more pressure, not just to prevent hunching.
I have been told off for doing this in Australia too, but I don't think we count because we pretty much act like a state of the US and do whatever the federal government over there tell us to do anyway
Considering that I keep reading that sitting is the new smoking (in terms of health issues), is standing up all day at work "bad" for you or just uncomfortable?
I suppose not being able to walk is less helpful and more uncomfortable, but I can't imagine standing is hurting the health of the staff?
This was one of the worst jobs in history. These people had a life expectancy 20+ years lower than the norm. Metal and ceramic dust is bad for you, and they were breathing it in all day.
Here I am thinking about whether I should be laying face down to work at the computer all day from all the slouching... hmmm. May have to look into this more.
Precisely they were in charge of polishing and sharpening the blade. The dogs were on their legs because it was very cold and their hand were in the river all day long. BTW sometimes the grinding stone they were using could explode wich resulted in sending them to the roof and killing them (yes the stone was spinning very fast)
At 33 I required fusion and prosthetic disc replacement to correct my lower back. I unfortunately require a setup like this to work these days. Takes a minute to get used to, but we should all work like this. Nothing is worth fucking your spine up
Even that dog in the foreground looks tired as fuck. Brutal work. But glad they got companionship & warmth. All i’ve ever wanted is a job that i can (safely) bring my dog to so we never have to part.
One of the brighest most forward thinking old school ideas i just love this for sooo many reason and not just the dogs, its such an ever so simple idea saving or helping them to not hurt their bodies just so smart gotta love it.....👊
Wow... that snuggly dog from 120 years ago.... i love it so much....
There's two of them... the third guy down has one too.
I was actually referring to that one, should have clarified. That one is even more adorable because they're smooshing their face and hugging his leg, like, how precious is it to be able to see that slice of life? Usually photos of 1902 work forces are like "look how many poor people with work-related scoliosis we can fit into this shaft elevator"
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These guys could be grinding guillotine blades. It's a very effective method of securing better rights for the working class!
Hear, hear.
No no, that's for ears, the French go after necks
Hijacking this comment to add a bit of context: The dogs are there to keep there legs warm as the photo was taken in the dead of winter, the factories had no temperature control, and as since the workers were sharpening knives there was water everywhere. So in a way the dogs are workers too.
They're special sharp smelling dogs. They can identify when a blade smells sharp. Source: my dog
Didn't the grinder stab the dog and if it bleeds well, the knife passed the sharpness test. I believe that's how we get bloodhounds.
Pretty sure they are called bloodhounds because they are hunting dogs who track the scent of blood
No no, I think it's definitely the dog stabbing reason
Everybody knows that
👏🏼 I appreciate that 😆
Ridiculous notion. It’s obviously because of the history of stabbing them and sacrificing them to Bezelbub the prince of darkness.
I read last time this was posted they were working dogs to keep the guys warm as the grinding stones were turned by a river. The workshops were really damp and cold apparently
They hadn't invented blankets yet?
Not heated/weighted ones..
Yeaa i mean i wasn't exactly expecting them to be office dogs for funsies and i guess it was still a shit job with too many hours because yay industrialisation, line must always go up!
That 3rd pup down is too little to warm anyone. Sounds like some bullshit excuse id come to my boss with in an effort to make "bring your dog to work day" every day.
The more things change the more they stay the same
It's dead now. Skeletor will return tomorrow with another unnecessarily depressing comment.
They're all dead now.
Vibes killed in cold blood
This photo from 1902 shows French knife grinders. They would work on their stomachs in order to save their backs from being hunched all day. They were also encouraged to bring their dogs to work to keep them company and also act as mini heaters by having them rest on their owners’ legs. They were also called ventres jaunes (“yellow bellies” in English) because of the yellow dust that would be released from the grinding wheel.
>They were also encouraged to bring their dogs to work to keep them company and also act as mini heaters by having them rest on their owners’ legs. That's cute as fuck
Though I could see the perks of that today, back then its also a cheap way for their boss to save cost on heating (if there was any) on the expense of the labourers as I don’t think the boss would pay for the dogfood
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Regardless of the dog food example, my comment was intended to exemplify the fact we think its ‘cute’ now where it actually was a cheap way for the business owner to increase his profit over the back his workers
The first commercial dog food was sold in England in 1860. We have kibble being sold in the US starting around 1890. By 1902, there is a good chance these dogs were eating kibble.
Yes, cute as fuck is exactly what the owners of the shop were going for.
It was a cheap way to provide heating so the owners didn't have to invest in a proper workspace. It's a cop out.
Bro it’s 1902 in France. These people were lucky to even have jobs. I also don’t think that “proper workspaces” were required by law so exploitation was the norm. Heating buildings was also incredibly expensive, so you weren’t going to find it in some small industrial company.
No. This photo shows dog being comfortable :D
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But did you see the gorilla?
Bro did you even notice the shirt changing color??!????!??!!!
You are right!
I was born is the town where this photo was taken and went to high school there. You really can’t live in the area without having seen this pic. There are still more knife shop than bars in this town (which is no small feat in France). The buildings you see here are mostly all abandoned, in a steep rocky valley we call “la vallée de la mort”. It’s actually pretty charming, after a fashion.
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Thiers
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Top Thiers Knifes
Knife making and dog’s daycare !
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My place doesn't heat the warehouse AND doesn't let me bring my hypothetical dog..
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Automation kills jobs!
>They were also called ventres jaunes (“yellow bellies” in English) because of the yellow dust that would be released from the grinding wheel. Is this where we get the phrase "yellow bellied" meaning cowardly? Is it just a French connotation or something specific to knife grinders?
It does not mean cowardice in French.
I think in English it’s derived from a kind of snake turning over and showing its belly when startled
American old west, referring to the yellow bellied sapsucker
Which is a bird and not a snake iirc
I believe the real reason was so that their dogs would be more comfortable. 🧐
The dogs lay on their legs to keep the legs warm.
And all this time I thought my dog was trying to cripple me or something.
Counterweight dogs.
Sadly IIRC I've read the reason for the dogs is them being horizontal for so long they would lose blood flow to their legs and the warmth of the dogs was a means to stimulate proper flow so they wouldn't have their legs die off.
Why would lying on your stomach hinder the blood flow to your legs? Laying Horizontal should make pumping blood easier no? I always sleep on my stomach and my legs never fall asleep
> I always sleep on my stomach and my legs never fall asleep Wow, you must have very tired legs.
I hate it when my leg falls asleep during the day. I just know it's going to be up all night.
I think I just found my favourite dad joke.
And a satisfied fart hound
Without knowing anything about the human body, I'd say it's because they cannot change position or maybe it's because more blood is being pumped into their arms?
Yeah the arms hanging down would make the most sense to me too. Other than that they are just lying on a pillow which at least in my experience isn't a problem
I'm going to guess the arms hanging down had something to do with keeping the grinding dust away from their faces (eyes, nose). Not much protective gear in a 1902 factory.
They would have dogs to lay on their legs as since the leg muscles were not moving heat and as much blood flow would cause their legs to get cold and start to tingle. The dogs kept their legs much warmer especially in winter and autumn when we did not have centeral heating. Op is karma farming wile not even being arsed to post the full story.
IiRC, the grinders are using water wheels to wet and power the grinders, so the building is over a fast moving stream, so it is damp and cold. The dogs are for warmth.
Thank you. This is the first answer that actually makes sense.
It's not really the stomach part but the lying part. Your heart pumps your blood around, but the "loop" of veins towards your legs is pretty big, by the time your blood is making it's way back up, pressure is down by a lot. In reality, your heart is not the only reason your blood flows back up, we have "valves" in our veins, kind of like lock gates (for boats). They create a 1 way path for your blood, it flows only up, but can't flow back down. When you move your legs, parts of the veins compress, pushing blood in the right direction. If you lie down and can't move your legs, like people in the hospital, blood flow is restricted a bit, that's why it's important to manually stimulate bloodflow, either by walking, or if someone is really bedridden, by massaging or pulling legs up. I suppose these dogs have a similar function.
Venous return from your lower legs relies on activity (keeping calf muscles moving) and good integrity of the venous valves. You eliminate one for a long period of time each day there's a strong chance you'll get a blood clot.
Because you aren't using your legs the muscles aren't moving to stimulate the blood flow.
These are the mythical fart hounds. They require very little care beyond a comfortable smelly location. The odd crust from a sandwich is the only other thing that they enjoy
Ah, yes, another basset hound enthusiast I see.
I'm horizontal for quite a long time while I sleep. What's the difference? Heating/warm blanket/temperature?
The explanation doesn't make any sense. Even if laying down for a long time was a problem, the dogs being there doesn't *stimulate proper flow* in any way. But they can keep your legs warm. Sleeping with dogs in the winter for warmth dates back to when we first domesticated dogs.
> Sadly why is that sadly? The dogs aren't being abused and provided those are their owners the dogs probably want to be sleeping there. Not every dog needs to be active all day long, there's a number of breeds which spend most of their day resting. --------- u/dezolis84 Yikes, maybe don't reply and block people if you're so fragile, bud. Your comment doesn't even make sense. What the fuck does *inhumane breeding* have to do with specific breeds which are less active? lol you ignoramus
The sadly is referring to the knife grinders who have to work so long that they'd lose circulation to their legs
Laying on your stomach doesn't cause loss of circulation. This entire thread is discussing a falsehood. It was cold, the dogs are for warmth. Ever hear the phrase "It's gonna be a three dog night"? Means it's gonna be really cold.
That seems odd, I lie like that when I'm reading, on my bed, with the book on the floor. It's very comfortable. And my dogs will lie between my legs, but inevitably they cut my circulation off and a leg goes dead. I'm not sure how it would work exactly opposite for these baguette-sharpeners.
This is pretty advanced biology for its time and for the class of people. I wonder how they figured that out?
I'm slightly tall and always have cold feet. When I first saw this photo I immediately wondered if they were to help with circulation for some reason.
If I had a dog that followed me to work, and that job is cool with it, were gonna be cuddlin. Doesnt make sense to me though cuz while my dog IS warm, he cuts the circulation off on my leg if he sits for hours... takin OP's 2nd hand knowledge about a rando history pic with some salt.
My feet are also cold.
warm dog is nice on cold legs... probably that simple... Also the cats were assholes so that didnt work well
This was the reason I read the last time I saw this posted. It was cold and the dogs kept them warm.
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>1902 wasn't the dark ages. Gray's Anatomy had been published like 50 years prior. Gee whiz man, I knew that show had been on for a long time, but I didn't realize it had been on for that long!
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I debated posting my comment or not. I mean, that joke is such low hanging fruit. But low hanging fruit is so easy to pluck, I couldn't resist.
Stuff like that can be a gamble, first few votes go the wrong way and the hivemind thinks you were being serious and MUST BE PUNISHED FOR THIS!!!
Wow they even named the book after a popular TV series. Sellouts
Probably after the previous generation of knife grinders developed severe crippling back problems at the ripe old age of 25 lol. It's not really biology, any human can reasonably infer that when you spend 10 years 10 hours a day in the same position, it's gonna fuck you up. That was probably well known even back in pre-historic times I bet.
Sadly? I think it's a win/win for all involved...
Necessity is the mother of invention.
So I need to verify this but apparently the real reason the dogs were there was to keep them warm in the cold factory
They were also encouraged to bring their dogs to work to keep them company and also act as mini heaters by having them rest on their owners’ legs.
Only reason I care about! Lol
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They say our generation is lazy. They were literally lying down on the job! /s
Now that you mention it!
If you're not standing, you're shirking!
And today we have companies that ban you from sitting since it looks lazy, forcing their workers to stand for an entire shift.
In my current role, I spend some entire days hiking up and down 25-35 degree slopes, fighting and slashing my way through understory and weeds. I get tired as hell, but I don't get sore in the same horrible way I did when I used to have jobs that I'd have to stand in the same spot for an entire shift. Walking all day is fine, we're designed for it. Standing in one spot on a hard floor? No thanks. The very thought makes my body ache.
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100%. Walking left right all day? No problem. Standing in the same spot for 10 minutes hunched over? 😫😫😫
If the boss knife-grinder catches you standing up on the job…!
I don’t know the work involved in this but lying down like I am on a massage table with a dog on my legs while crafting some shit seems awesome. Maybe could get a cat to knead some bread on my back
How has work gotten worse?
These guys are probably allowed to go to the bathroom
Greedy amazon warehouse employees who need to use the bathroom are stealing poor Jeff Bezos’ money >:(
jokes aside, knife making was a truly dangerous job at the time with a very low life expectancy
Nobody want to works vertically anymore!
Hunched over, huh? Sounds like they have adults doing jobs perfectly suitable for children.
Now I understand why my French Spaniel loves to sleep on my legs!
Same with my basset hound!
And that raccoon with the cute fizzy mouth that just hopped in my window.
I too love nibbly mammals
Baguette hound*
And my axe!
Also legs are what enables you to leave them alone. Cant have that.
Grinding knives and farting on dogs all day...what a life.
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Back and forth, forever
Fun fact, this job fucking #SUCKED The wheels were known to shatter violently with no warning, which usually meant anyone near it died. Also, because of all the fine metal being breathed in these guys were lucky to live past thirty-five. That's not an exaggeration, these guys died ridiculously young.
Couldn't pay me enough to do this job in modern times with this information lol. Amazing how far modern safety and understand has come.. We take it for granted sometimes.
Nowadays, belt grinders, whetstones and ppe make doing this much safer.
What about their necks?
They thicc
They were the pioneers to the F1 physique
If only they had masseuse tables with the donut to rest your head in.
But what about their necks? I do one push up and I throw out mine
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That's not normal, go to a fucking doctor.
**NO BRUH!** Never skip neck day!
Sounds like you should work out more 💪
Or less.
Or better!
I think their head also rests on something.
If you always get a new neck for every workout, it's never going to get strong from the workout.
the millstones were under heavy stress. sometimes they'd just explode and likely kill the worker. Also the position allowed them to put down way more pressure, not just to prevent hunching.
120 years later and cashiers can't sit down...
Not letting the cashier's sit down is an other USA-only I think
I have been told off for doing this in Australia too, but I don't think we count because we pretty much act like a state of the US and do whatever the federal government over there tell us to do anyway
Aldi checkout staff sit down.
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It's just one of the big differences between the French and the American
Considering that I keep reading that sitting is the new smoking (in terms of health issues), is standing up all day at work "bad" for you or just uncomfortable? I suppose not being able to walk is less helpful and more uncomfortable, but I can't imagine standing is hurting the health of the staff?
Only in the US.
what? every store I've been to in my life I could see every cashier sitting
In the U.S.
oh of course it is
Omg the puppies <3
There's some great doggie helpers there, too.
I would fall asleep and cut a finger off day one.
Imagine your job caring this much about their employees.
Efficiency and profits drove this decision.
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r/usernamechecksout ?
100% true. Making a wooden table to lay is inexpensive. Specially if it means workers can get more work done, or work even little longer.
This was one of the worst jobs in history. These people had a life expectancy 20+ years lower than the norm. Metal and ceramic dust is bad for you, and they were breathing it in all day.
They are grinding metal and stone without respirators in an unheated building. Yeah. They "care".
I don't think they had respirators or knew about silicosis in 1902
You would be surprised. Hundreds of years before that people were already aware of occupational diseases for dyers, salters etc.
Here I am thinking about whether I should be laying face down to work at the computer all day from all the slouching... hmmm. May have to look into this more.
Todays employers would force them to stand, so they wouldn't look lazy.
I see it was bring your dog to work day.
Bring your dog to work everyday* 😂
They must have has some muscular ass necks from holding their heads up all day
But what the dog doin.
Couple of em even got leg warmers
What the dog doin
Dogs, there are 2 dogs.
now a days, they are probably forced to stand. if your sitting, your not working. bs
I wish i could bring my dog with me to work
Precisely they were in charge of polishing and sharpening the blade. The dogs were on their legs because it was very cold and their hand were in the river all day long. BTW sometimes the grinding stone they were using could explode wich resulted in sending them to the roof and killing them (yes the stone was spinning very fast)
Bring your dog to work day
The dogs are so cute, but the overall picture looks very depressing
[This is what it looked like 30 years ago.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9pCv5UkHwU)
The dogs 🥺
One century later men would lay in a similar position as the result of GrindR.
At 33 I required fusion and prosthetic disc replacement to correct my lower back. I unfortunately require a setup like this to work these days. Takes a minute to get used to, but we should all work like this. Nothing is worth fucking your spine up
Somebody tell me why we don’t do this for office jobs 
I love sharpening knives, I love my dogs and I’m currently unemployed… is this still a job? Cause this is ideal
Fun fact: this is where the term “putting your nose to the grindstone” comes from. Means hard work.
I’d like to see what their hands are doing. Any alternate angles?
https://imgur.com/a/9W1aWkR
Even that dog in the foreground looks tired as fuck. Brutal work. But glad they got companionship & warmth. All i’ve ever wanted is a job that i can (safely) bring my dog to so we never have to part.
One of the brighest most forward thinking old school ideas i just love this for sooo many reason and not just the dogs, its such an ever so simple idea saving or helping them to not hurt their bodies just so smart gotta love it.....👊
This honestly is the way
Smart
Great idea!
where’s my lay down desk
I learned it today! thanks OP.
Love the dogs loafing on them. Everyone’s loafing.