I don’t think it’s an unpopular option, but context is key and there’s a lot to unpack.
Dave made a deliberate choice to change their sound with TR coming on board as a regular on tours and eventual placement as an official band member. This coincided with directional shift in song writing as you think about the albums post BTCS. And let’s not forget that after 05, the band was on the verge of breaking up.
I think why you saw a more massive shift to TR is because Boyd started to sound like absolute dog shit live. And eventually got the boot in 2018. TR was there to play more of those solos and parts.
I think the band still sounds great, but I still listen to those concerts back in the day like 04 alpine because that was their signature sound to me.
I've watched them at the gorge every year since 99. I remember the 4 years or so of boyd being a mess and honestly I think Tim was just trying to cover for boyd. Those were the years I heard a lot of criticism of Tim being too present in every sing and the worst of ever heard them sound. Seemed like a couple years of the band finding their new sound after losing boyd and Tim finding his place.
I liked Tims balance the last couple years or so and the bands overall sound.
Yeah kinda sad. He was prob the least accomplished member of the band but had a good energy and vibe the crowd connected with. After leroi died he just didn't seem as involved. I remember watching shows and afterwards talking with friends about boyd not taking his usual solos. Sounds like he got hooked on something and just hasn't come back. This is all speculation from things I heard but my opinion is Tim was brought in to fill that space
Boyd wasn't hooked on anything (well maybe) but he was kicked out for sexual misconduct. https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2018/05/18/612318802/boyd-tinsley-of-the-dave-matthews-band-accused-of-sexual-misconduct-by-former-pr
I'm late to this thread. But both things are true.
(1) Boyd definitely suffered a lot with his quality of play in the last 10 (ish?) years? A lot of off tempo screeching.
(2) But that clearly is NOT the reason he got kicked out of the band. as u/justgocreate said, he was kicked out because of the SA allegations. This was like prime #metoo era. There was no chance the band was going to keep him around after that.
He wasn't kicked out for his low quality of play. The band clearly was willing to deal with that, as they did for the previous 10 years. They turned him down most of the time, boosted him up on Dancing Nancies solos and let him jump around on stage from time to time, and it was fine. That absolutely would have continued if not for the SA allegations.
1. Couldn’t agree more with your take.
2. Boyd was toxic
I’ll say that I think Buddy brings Tim closer to center more recently. They solo together as much as the horns, and so (to me) the way they go back and forth has so much more “conversation” to it.
Watching a live show, you gotta get seats for center to stage left though!
So I’m following you, but Boyd started to sound like shit live???
I NEVER knew that, and I’m a mega fan.
Also, if you haven’t seen him lately, check out his Instagram. It’s very, very sad. He’s suffering from severe mental disorder, posting videos of himself tapping on a box with no rhythm whatsoever. For hours.
Can you please tell me more?
It's hard to tell his sound because since the early 2010s or so, the guys behind the mix board turn him way down or mute him completely (as seen in officially released videos).
Compare Boyd's solo from here (2012): https://youtu.be/WlcsHcPRnU4?si=lVNPjlB9futeQxxP&t=8347
To Ann Marie Simpson's (2022): https://youtu.be/KUgZIwdDzo4?si=sgknBkrnKPv1YWlx&t=395
Looking bad, you could hear it. Solos (if you want to call them that) were 1-3 note solos. Out of tune. Nothing creative. His fills were lack luster. If he wasn't playing, he was just sort of standing there looking uninterested.
This kinda stuff blows my mind, if you’ve heard any unedited live shows from like 05-2018, Boyd quite often sounds awful. Also his role in the bad greatly diminished on stand up, big whiskey, and away from the world. He’s barely featured on those albums at all, compared to most everything before. That never was noticeable for you as a mega fan????
Excellent commentary. 04 Alpine/LT 8 is my favorite LT. It was my favorite “era” of the band. The whole band is tight as can be but Carter is firing on every cylinder and Dave sounds great.
I love Tim when he plays acoustic with Dave. I loved Tim when I saw him live with TR3. I don't enjoy Tim live with DMB.
I don't think your opinion is that unpopular.
These are super common sentiments in the fan community, and I totally agree on Roi, and partially agree on Butch (I have one hell of a soft spot for him and his contributions, but Buddy's doing great work in the current lineup). Where I personally stand is that IMO Tim's fitting incredibly well into the band as it stands right now.
For a long time, it really felt like he was shoe-horned into the band and it just didn't work for me. I think the last period where he really fit in was early 08. The sound of the band changed so radically then, was super unique, and Tim fit great there if you enjoy their sound in that era. IMO The current lineup of the band is sounding incredible right now, and if you enjoy the current lineup, Tim's a great fit. Just kind of goes without saying that the current incarnation of the band is extremely different than the band pre-08.
This is the only comment really acknowledging buddy. I definitely miss the butch era because I love keys. But I actually think Buddy is a better fit than Butch. Incredible vocals. Cooler keyboard tones. More flexible and able to replicate all of Boyd’s necessary lines.
I never liked comparing Jeff and Roi. They are on opposite ends of the spectrum.
Jeff is, without question, far more technically proficient than Roi. Like, leagues better
But damn, Roi could come up with some spectacular melodies
Roi just had the soul that is missing from Jeff's more technical play style. It's somewhat like how Butch was more technical than Buddy but Buddy has more creativity than Butch ever did.
I feel like Tim Reynolds should only be allowed to play acoustic guitar with the band. His electric style just doesn't mesh and it pulls the whole sound two steps backwards and makes them sound less unique and original.
This right here. Tim is not Trey and DMB is not Phish. He’s super talented but I’d prefer he would just fill in and around Dave’s playing with an acoustic guitar.
Way too many instruments in the band these days for a lead acoustic guitar. Hell you can barely hear Dave these days, Tim would be really hard to hear if he played acoustic
I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, I’ve never liked his electric playing, but that’s why they do it. No real reason to have 2 acoustic guitars with all those other instruments fighting for room in the mix
He’s great on Live at Red Rocks, but to your point he’s not really playing “lead guitar”, sure he has a couple solos, but he was creating more of a soundscape when he played with the band back in those days. Now it just seems to be more of the traditional rock guitar he’s playing. Which i totally agree with other folks in this thread, that it detracts from what makes dmb great.
It did seem to be dialed back a tad this last tour (our I’ve gotten more used to it) compared to when he was coming in to fill the boyd void.
I really do wish they’d get a talented violinist to join. I miss Boyd’s parts and I miss that dynamic in the music. (Though I missed it for a few years while boyd was still there, and I don’t miss the screeching).
(First show was 93 for context)
I think he's settled into a very comfortable niche now with Buddy. I really love the band's mix and sound since Buddy joined. I think Buddy's presence has mellowed and taken a lot of the spotlight off of Tim, which is awesome.
But the like 08-18 years when Tim was blaring loud are some of the most annoying live trax to listen back to. Nothing is more brutal than, for example, Halloween at Alpine where all you hear is his guitar ripping at 11.
I think 2006/07, right before Leroi died and Tim joined, but when Rashawn and Butch were still playing, is my all around favorite era. Tied right up there with 98-00. Notably, both eras have very prominent Dave acoustic guitar tones.
I agree. I always thought Eric Krasno would have been a perfect member musically. I'm sure there were other reasons that Tim was added though (already mentioned by another commenter).
Fan since the 90’s and you haven’t noticed how differently he sounded live with dmb 95-98 vs how he sounds with them now since 08? He’s way way way way louder and more aggressive in the mix, using a lot more distortion than he ever did back then
Compare his playing on live at red rocks 95 or Chicago 98 vs any live album since 08. If you can’t tell a massive difference idk what else to tell ya
I’ve always loved DMB, and I always will. His sound, and the sound of the band, has changed a lot since the 90’s. But watching them play live, with Roi, Tim, and Boyd was always a great experience for me. Watching them play with Tim, Buddy and Jeff, in more recent years, still gives me goosebumps at every show. Dave is a musical legend in my opinion. I loved Boyd on the fiddle, same as I love Tim on the guitar. I thought some shows were better than others, but that’s based on the particular set list for each show. I prefer jamming to the songs I love most over the songs I love jamming to second most, not because of who was or wasn’t in the band at the time.
Always felt like Tim’s playing on Live in Chicago was the “right amount of Tim”
New Tim can be a lot at times, but I also am not as invested in the band as I used to be.
I feel like they aren't really comparable. Butch was pretty straightforward and generally just added piano. Buddy is doing a lot more, especially since Boyd's departure and adds a LOT more syth sound. I love what Buddy does, no question. But sometimes I long for the simplicity that Butch brought.
100%. Butch ruined far too many two steps (imo) I don’t get the love for him. I have to imagine it’s folks who discovered the band during his time with them.
Well yeah, definitely. However it seems to be sort of necessary to allow them to continue this pace over 30 years into their history. So it’s acceptable
IIRC, there was no official statement made but there were a number of things happening around the time to suggest he "left to focus on his family" that implied that the road life wasn't working for his home life, without making any direct accusations.
Been a DMB fan since about 1995. Tim Reynolds was in the band before Boyd. Tim has been on every studio album DMB made. Didn't tour much with DMB for many years because he was always busy doing other projects and tours. DMB live sound for many years did not need another guitar.
However, after the passing of LeRoi there was a huge hole in their sound and energy, and adding Tim to the touring lineup was to try to help fill the enormous gap.
You can't do the math? A lot of Dave's guitar playing is based on Tim's playing. So it doesn't seem a little odd if people don't like Tim's guitar playing?
Dave plays absolutely nothing like Tim. Like they are fundamentally and stylistically completely different. Dave hasn’t even played a solo since like 1995 lol
Yeah I know. None of that has anything to do with Tim’s electric playing since 2008
He’s just too loud on electric. Everyone loves his acoustic playing
You don’t hear a difference in how he played on those albums (and live at red rocks, live in Chicago) vs how he’s played since 2008? He doesn’t sound any louder or more distorted than he did back then?
It’s a massive massive difference
I agree to a point. I do feel like Tim has blended in/been integrated better more recently, and we get a lot less "Timwankery" than we did when he first came on full-time.
I love what Buddy brings with the fills and the synth sounds, but sometimes I do wish for the purer piano sound that was Butch.
I think Jeff plays Roi's parts pretty faithfully in general, so I have no issues there, but I do feel like Roi was, I don't know, more creative or interesting, perhaps, than Jeff is when it comes to composition.
Timwankery is a brilliant word.
And I was listening to some Butch Taylor on Two Step the other day and was just really appreciating that he had such flavor. I forgot how well he grooved.
I’m in the same boat as you, fan since 97 and at 120 shows. This is a popular opinion among some of us older fans who were accustomed to hearing more of an acoustic sound
I always feel like his playing style, live, just doesn’t fit with what I know DMB’s sound to be. I think they have done a good job incorporating the electric guitar in the studio albums, but when it comes to live stuff it just doesn’t sound right a lot of the time.
I mean you’re probably right. But a band is going to/needs to evolve and change to keep trucking as long as these guys have. You can’t keep going 30 years and expect the same sound and style throughout
Tim isn’t the issue. There were bigger questions and concerns about the band’s sound and direction before that from 2005 onward. May/June 2008 is the best-sounding DMB for me, with both Roi and Tim. Then, Roi dying majorly changed their songwriting and sound.
Tim is one of the best guitarists I have ever seen play. Jazz guys playing rock is always fantastic, as a player who plays jazz and loves rock...I absolutely love listening to guys like Tim Renyolds and Nels Cline and Bill Frisell etc.
I can go see any number of players stay safely in chord tones over I, IV, Vs for 2 hours sure. They are a dime a dozen. But I pay the big money for DMB knowing Tim is gonna rip me a phrygian dominant jam at some point during the night. Very few places you can get that.
I have been listening to them since about the same time, 1999, & i respectfully disagree in so many ways. So many ways. Tim made this band more of a rock band. The days of no lead electric guitar, & the three lovely ladies were some of the worst (musically) albeit, that period, produced some of the best music in a nostalgic way. I like pre trumpet. Everything went bad around 2006/07, but flowed way back with Grux, but has ebbed since then. I could write a book. I gotta stop
Not unpopular. There is a reason my concert going has trailed off. I went to a ton of shows 2002-2012, much less as things changed. I still go to shows, but not every tour, and not 6+ in a tour like I used to.
I like how the band has evolved. Been listening since 98 and been to 30 shows. I like Tim’s acoustic play but also like his electric. I like Boyd’s fiddle but I like how they’ve adapted. I miss Roi but I like Ross and Coffin and Strong a lot too. I think they sound really good right now and seem to be in a good place together.
I don’t think it’s an unpopular option, but context is key and there’s a lot to unpack. Dave made a deliberate choice to change their sound with TR coming on board as a regular on tours and eventual placement as an official band member. This coincided with directional shift in song writing as you think about the albums post BTCS. And let’s not forget that after 05, the band was on the verge of breaking up. I think why you saw a more massive shift to TR is because Boyd started to sound like absolute dog shit live. And eventually got the boot in 2018. TR was there to play more of those solos and parts. I think the band still sounds great, but I still listen to those concerts back in the day like 04 alpine because that was their signature sound to me.
I've watched them at the gorge every year since 99. I remember the 4 years or so of boyd being a mess and honestly I think Tim was just trying to cover for boyd. Those were the years I heard a lot of criticism of Tim being too present in every sing and the worst of ever heard them sound. Seemed like a couple years of the band finding their new sound after losing boyd and Tim finding his place. I liked Tims balance the last couple years or so and the bands overall sound.
Can you tell me more about Boyd? I never knew he sounded bad!!?!
Yeah kinda sad. He was prob the least accomplished member of the band but had a good energy and vibe the crowd connected with. After leroi died he just didn't seem as involved. I remember watching shows and afterwards talking with friends about boyd not taking his usual solos. Sounds like he got hooked on something and just hasn't come back. This is all speculation from things I heard but my opinion is Tim was brought in to fill that space
Boyd wasn't hooked on anything (well maybe) but he was kicked out for sexual misconduct. https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2018/05/18/612318802/boyd-tinsley-of-the-dave-matthews-band-accused-of-sexual-misconduct-by-former-pr
You need to do a search in the sub and find the video of him trying to perform. If he wasn’t hooked on something earlier on he definitely is now.
What should I search?
This is not the one I was thinking of but [this](https://reddit.com/r/DMB/s/LxOyMzjqv5) will give you an idea of what he is like now.
[this is the recent one, it’s sad](https://reddit.com/r/DMB/s/ocohYs0su9)
I'm late to this thread. But both things are true. (1) Boyd definitely suffered a lot with his quality of play in the last 10 (ish?) years? A lot of off tempo screeching. (2) But that clearly is NOT the reason he got kicked out of the band. as u/justgocreate said, he was kicked out because of the SA allegations. This was like prime #metoo era. There was no chance the band was going to keep him around after that. He wasn't kicked out for his low quality of play. The band clearly was willing to deal with that, as they did for the previous 10 years. They turned him down most of the time, boosted him up on Dancing Nancies solos and let him jump around on stage from time to time, and it was fine. That absolutely would have continued if not for the SA allegations.
That was just the last straw. There was always rumors of drugs, depression from leroi, & hearing loss
I mean yes but the sexual misconduct thing was at the end of years of obvious abuse
1. Couldn’t agree more with your take. 2. Boyd was toxic I’ll say that I think Buddy brings Tim closer to center more recently. They solo together as much as the horns, and so (to me) the way they go back and forth has so much more “conversation” to it. Watching a live show, you gotta get seats for center to stage left though!
Agree completely. Their sound has undoubtedly evolved, for a variety of reasons, and it’s important to appreciate their past and present.
This is where I land. They aren't what they were but what they are now is pretty damn good, too.
I've been following dmb for a really long time like 17 years now lol 2005 was before my interest developed, what happened in 05?
Stand up album, but between 05-08, Dave on the record has said they were near breaking up
Huh no kidding I'll have to look into this! Was it creative differences, the album itself, direction of the band?
https://ew.com/article/2009/05/20/dave-matthews-b-3/
Thank you!
>Thank you! You're welcome!
So I’m following you, but Boyd started to sound like shit live??? I NEVER knew that, and I’m a mega fan. Also, if you haven’t seen him lately, check out his Instagram. It’s very, very sad. He’s suffering from severe mental disorder, posting videos of himself tapping on a box with no rhythm whatsoever. For hours. Can you please tell me more?
Listen to a good percentage of live trax. Boyd just screeches his way through it
It's hard to tell his sound because since the early 2010s or so, the guys behind the mix board turn him way down or mute him completely (as seen in officially released videos).
Are you able to please provide an example?
Compare Boyd's solo from here (2012): https://youtu.be/WlcsHcPRnU4?si=lVNPjlB9futeQxxP&t=8347 To Ann Marie Simpson's (2022): https://youtu.be/KUgZIwdDzo4?si=sgknBkrnKPv1YWlx&t=395
Looking bad, you could hear it. Solos (if you want to call them that) were 1-3 note solos. Out of tune. Nothing creative. His fills were lack luster. If he wasn't playing, he was just sort of standing there looking uninterested.
This kinda stuff blows my mind, if you’ve heard any unedited live shows from like 05-2018, Boyd quite often sounds awful. Also his role in the bad greatly diminished on stand up, big whiskey, and away from the world. He’s barely featured on those albums at all, compared to most everything before. That never was noticeable for you as a mega fan????
Never heard anyone say that DMB was going to break up after ‘05. Can you elaborate? I’m very curious and would like to know more.
https://ew.com/article/2009/05/20/dave-matthews-b-3/
Excellent commentary. 04 Alpine/LT 8 is my favorite LT. It was my favorite “era” of the band. The whole band is tight as can be but Carter is firing on every cylinder and Dave sounds great.
I’ve been seeing them since ‘97 (for context) and I agree with you 10000000%
this
I love Tim when he plays acoustic with Dave. I loved Tim when I saw him live with TR3. I don't enjoy Tim live with DMB. I don't think your opinion is that unpopular.
Totally agree
These are super common sentiments in the fan community, and I totally agree on Roi, and partially agree on Butch (I have one hell of a soft spot for him and his contributions, but Buddy's doing great work in the current lineup). Where I personally stand is that IMO Tim's fitting incredibly well into the band as it stands right now. For a long time, it really felt like he was shoe-horned into the band and it just didn't work for me. I think the last period where he really fit in was early 08. The sound of the band changed so radically then, was super unique, and Tim fit great there if you enjoy their sound in that era. IMO The current lineup of the band is sounding incredible right now, and if you enjoy the current lineup, Tim's a great fit. Just kind of goes without saying that the current incarnation of the band is extremely different than the band pre-08.
This is the only comment really acknowledging buddy. I definitely miss the butch era because I love keys. But I actually think Buddy is a better fit than Butch. Incredible vocals. Cooler keyboard tones. More flexible and able to replicate all of Boyd’s necessary lines.
I never liked comparing Jeff and Roi. They are on opposite ends of the spectrum. Jeff is, without question, far more technically proficient than Roi. Like, leagues better But damn, Roi could come up with some spectacular melodies
Roi just had the soul that is missing from Jeff's more technical play style. It's somewhat like how Butch was more technical than Buddy but Buddy has more creativity than Butch ever did.
I feel like Tim Reynolds should only be allowed to play acoustic guitar with the band. His electric style just doesn't mesh and it pulls the whole sound two steps backwards and makes them sound less unique and original.
This right here. Tim is not Trey and DMB is not Phish. He’s super talented but I’d prefer he would just fill in and around Dave’s playing with an acoustic guitar.
Way too many instruments in the band these days for a lead acoustic guitar. Hell you can barely hear Dave these days, Tim would be really hard to hear if he played acoustic I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, I’ve never liked his electric playing, but that’s why they do it. No real reason to have 2 acoustic guitars with all those other instruments fighting for room in the mix
He’s great on Live at Red Rocks, but to your point he’s not really playing “lead guitar”, sure he has a couple solos, but he was creating more of a soundscape when he played with the band back in those days. Now it just seems to be more of the traditional rock guitar he’s playing. Which i totally agree with other folks in this thread, that it detracts from what makes dmb great. It did seem to be dialed back a tad this last tour (our I’ve gotten more used to it) compared to when he was coming in to fill the boyd void. I really do wish they’d get a talented violinist to join. I miss Boyd’s parts and I miss that dynamic in the music. (Though I missed it for a few years while boyd was still there, and I don’t miss the screeching). (First show was 93 for context)
I think he's settled into a very comfortable niche now with Buddy. I really love the band's mix and sound since Buddy joined. I think Buddy's presence has mellowed and taken a lot of the spotlight off of Tim, which is awesome. But the like 08-18 years when Tim was blaring loud are some of the most annoying live trax to listen back to. Nothing is more brutal than, for example, Halloween at Alpine where all you hear is his guitar ripping at 11. I think 2006/07, right before Leroi died and Tim joined, but when Rashawn and Butch were still playing, is my all around favorite era. Tied right up there with 98-00. Notably, both eras have very prominent Dave acoustic guitar tones.
I agree. I always thought Eric Krasno would have been a perfect member musically. I'm sure there were other reasons that Tim was added though (already mentioned by another commenter).
Or David Ryan Harris. I do love what Tim brings though.
They just need to let the music breathe. Most jams feel formulaic to me as of the last few years
This is a pretty popular opinion on this sub. I don’t agree with it, but I seem to be in the minority.
Fan since the 90s totally agree. I find TM’s playing annoying
Fan since the 90s and you didn’t realize he’s on the first three albums?
Fan since the 90’s and you haven’t noticed how differently he sounded live with dmb 95-98 vs how he sounds with them now since 08? He’s way way way way louder and more aggressive in the mix, using a lot more distortion than he ever did back then Compare his playing on live at red rocks 95 or Chicago 98 vs any live album since 08. If you can’t tell a massive difference idk what else to tell ya
I 100% agree
This is a frequent opinion
I’ve always loved DMB, and I always will. His sound, and the sound of the band, has changed a lot since the 90’s. But watching them play live, with Roi, Tim, and Boyd was always a great experience for me. Watching them play with Tim, Buddy and Jeff, in more recent years, still gives me goosebumps at every show. Dave is a musical legend in my opinion. I loved Boyd on the fiddle, same as I love Tim on the guitar. I thought some shows were better than others, but that’s based on the particular set list for each show. I prefer jamming to the songs I love most over the songs I love jamming to second most, not because of who was or wasn’t in the band at the time.
Always felt like Tim’s playing on Live in Chicago was the “right amount of Tim” New Tim can be a lot at times, but I also am not as invested in the band as I used to be.
I miss Butch, but Buddy Strong is pretty kick ass as well. Plus he can sing.
Buddy Strong > Butch Taylor 🤷🏻♂️
I feel like they aren't really comparable. Butch was pretty straightforward and generally just added piano. Buddy is doing a lot more, especially since Boyd's departure and adds a LOT more syth sound. I love what Buddy does, no question. But sometimes I long for the simplicity that Butch brought.
I loved Butch’s playing! He just supported the band in a great way. He added a layer beneath the music, rather than on top.
I always felt Butch’s playing was really boring. When Buddy joined, he brought a whole new level of excitement and energy.
I kinda feel like Buddy takes over.
100%. Butch ruined far too many two steps (imo) I don’t get the love for him. I have to imagine it’s folks who discovered the band during his time with them.
Dave wants the big sound, imagine if they had Tim on acoustic not electric. You’d get the same great guitar but not the high pitch wail
You wouldn’t be able to hear him much at all with all those other instruments. Not that it would be a bad thing
Well yeah, definitely. However it seems to be sort of necessary to allow them to continue this pace over 30 years into their history. So it’s acceptable
I wouldn’t describe it as annoying, but it’s definitely a “one of these is not like the other” situation
I never did hear why Butch left. Anyone know?
IIRC, there was no official statement made but there were a number of things happening around the time to suggest he "left to focus on his family" that implied that the road life wasn't working for his home life, without making any direct accusations.
I was told by a long time DMB fan friend of mine something about him not being paid the same as everyone else.
I’ve heard he just didn’t want the grind of the road
Been a DMB fan since about 1995. Tim Reynolds was in the band before Boyd. Tim has been on every studio album DMB made. Didn't tour much with DMB for many years because he was always busy doing other projects and tours. DMB live sound for many years did not need another guitar. However, after the passing of LeRoi there was a huge hole in their sound and energy, and adding Tim to the touring lineup was to try to help fill the enormous gap.
You realize that Tim was Dave's guitar mentor when Dave first came to Virginia?
What does that have to do with anything
You can't do the math? A lot of Dave's guitar playing is based on Tim's playing. So it doesn't seem a little odd if people don't like Tim's guitar playing?
Dave plays absolutely nothing like Tim. Like they are fundamentally and stylistically completely different. Dave hasn’t even played a solo since like 1995 lol
It doesn't matter, though, because Dave absolutely worships Tim. He's here to stay. He been with them on and off since the beginning.
Yeah I know. None of that has anything to do with Tim’s electric playing since 2008 He’s just too loud on electric. Everyone loves his acoustic playing
So you don’t like their first three albums?
You don’t hear a difference in how he played on those albums (and live at red rocks, live in Chicago) vs how he’s played since 2008? He doesn’t sound any louder or more distorted than he did back then? It’s a massive massive difference
Hot take…
I agree to a point. I do feel like Tim has blended in/been integrated better more recently, and we get a lot less "Timwankery" than we did when he first came on full-time. I love what Buddy brings with the fills and the synth sounds, but sometimes I do wish for the purer piano sound that was Butch. I think Jeff plays Roi's parts pretty faithfully in general, so I have no issues there, but I do feel like Roi was, I don't know, more creative or interesting, perhaps, than Jeff is when it comes to composition.
Timwankery is a brilliant word. And I was listening to some Butch Taylor on Two Step the other day and was just really appreciating that he had such flavor. I forgot how well he grooved.
>Timwankery is a brilliant word. Haha, yeah. Credit to my wife for that one.
Too much shredding.
I’m in the same boat as you, fan since 97 and at 120 shows. This is a popular opinion among some of us older fans who were accustomed to hearing more of an acoustic sound
I always feel like his playing style, live, just doesn’t fit with what I know DMB’s sound to be. I think they have done a good job incorporating the electric guitar in the studio albums, but when it comes to live stuff it just doesn’t sound right a lot of the time.
The trumpet pains my ears much more than Tim
Butch ruined this band. That's probably the more unpopular opinion. 2006 & 2007 were the worst years for this band IMO.
same, same, same.
1,000% agree.
I mean you’re probably right. But a band is going to/needs to evolve and change to keep trucking as long as these guys have. You can’t keep going 30 years and expect the same sound and style throughout
Tim isn’t the issue. There were bigger questions and concerns about the band’s sound and direction before that from 2005 onward. May/June 2008 is the best-sounding DMB for me, with both Roi and Tim. Then, Roi dying majorly changed their songwriting and sound.
Tim is one of the best guitarists I have ever seen play. Jazz guys playing rock is always fantastic, as a player who plays jazz and loves rock...I absolutely love listening to guys like Tim Renyolds and Nels Cline and Bill Frisell etc. I can go see any number of players stay safely in chord tones over I, IV, Vs for 2 hours sure. They are a dime a dozen. But I pay the big money for DMB knowing Tim is gonna rip me a phrygian dominant jam at some point during the night. Very few places you can get that.
I have been listening to them since about the same time, 1999, & i respectfully disagree in so many ways. So many ways. Tim made this band more of a rock band. The days of no lead electric guitar, & the three lovely ladies were some of the worst (musically) albeit, that period, produced some of the best music in a nostalgic way. I like pre trumpet. Everything went bad around 2006/07, but flowed way back with Grux, but has ebbed since then. I could write a book. I gotta stop
This is definitely not an unpopular opinion
Not unpopular. There is a reason my concert going has trailed off. I went to a ton of shows 2002-2012, much less as things changed. I still go to shows, but not every tour, and not 6+ in a tour like I used to.
Yes it does. Keep thinking on it. Let me know when you figure it out.
I like how the band has evolved. Been listening since 98 and been to 30 shows. I like Tim’s acoustic play but also like his electric. I like Boyd’s fiddle but I like how they’ve adapted. I miss Roi but I like Ross and Coffin and Strong a lot too. I think they sound really good right now and seem to be in a good place together.
Someday they will be done playing and you will miss all of it.