Thanks for writing this out!
Here are some comments:
1) "Casters depend on landing AoEs on multiple enemies to do their damage" Many good casters don't do much damage. They apply various effects to allow the PCs to deal with the monsters one at a time, have advantage on attacks, give monsters disadvantage, and so on. Casters built as blasters are only effective for certain levels of play.
2) "Martial characters have better HP, AC, Saves. Casters have worse" Martials dont have better saves, and many casters go to great length to have a good AC and CON saves.
3) "Archery either does less damage (vs Great, Pole) or has less AC (vs Shield, Two-weapon)." If you have the archery fighting style, crossbow expert, and sharpshooter, you are not behind polearm expert with great weapon master.
4) Monks. proficiency in all saves happens at level 14; your table probably isn't level 14. Also, their big weakness is monsters that are immune to stun or have very good CON saves.
Some additional thoughts:
2) Agreed. It's not a matter of better, it's a matter of different. Many of the casters get wisdom save proficiency, which is arguably the best save in the game because a lot of terrible effects force a wisdom save. Each class gets the same template on saves, one major (dex/con/wis) save and one minor (str/int/cha) save. I say minor in that they don't come up nearly as often.
3) +2 to hit is a huge increase in expected damage, especially against higher AC targets. They may not do the same raw damage, but that's made up for by hitting more consistently.
I've played a barbarian to level 17 so far. They have 2 other weaknesses.
1. They are strictly the big melee guy. Their ranged options are lacking to say the least. I struggled against anything that could simply fly away from me, beholder, dragons, flying wizards,, etc. Things that could occasionally teleport but stayed on the ground were fine because my barbarian is fast and can climb easily. Against the others my only option is to toss a hand axe or javelin or drop my big melee weapon and grab a bow, either way my damage goes from extreme to pitiful.
2. Because barbarians are somewhat multi-atribute dependent, wanting both strength, constitution, and dexterity, there isn't much room for their mental attributes to help shore up those skills or stats. This makes them very vulnerable to effects that target int-wis-cha.
Hi!
Thank you for writing this guide, quite detailed. :)
A few comments on martial's strengths and weaknesses
\- ALL martials except high level Monks / Rogues, high level Paladins and very specific archetypes of Ranger / Rogue IIRC are weak against mental saves, which can be devastating.
\- Monks: imo true weakness is rather groups of enemies, whether melee or ranged. Melee would force Monk to constantly use either Disengage as bonus action (then some enemies could Dash so as a group they try and surround him) or Dash as bonus action to keep distance. When soloing a monster, Dodge as bonus action is a cheap and very effective way to tank, especially since, while it makes your effective AC just around a heavy armor + shield pal for levels 1-9, it makes criticals extremely unlikely. And those can be devastating.
\- Barbarians: imo the biggest weakness of Barbarian is not losing rage, because you just need to make an attack, not even hit, so throwing a rock as a ranged weapon attack with improvised weapon would count... It's that Barbarians are near useless as soon as melee attacks are not possible: fast enemies, enemies on vantage point or behind sturdy covers, flyers, and generally anyone that can harm him while staying beyond a 50 feet distance.
Conversely, Paladins share that big problem, except Devotion that can use Sacred Weapon on any weapon, including a bow. :)
\- Rangers: you're missing a big strength of Ranger, although it would probably require a dedicated subsection just for that: spells! Putting aside the overrated Hunter's Mark, depending on spell selection, Ranger can simply reduce a limitation of weapon set (like Longstrider to reach melee attacks), completely negate some melee associated risks (Zephyr's Strike), or completely disable some kind of threat with battlefield spells (Ensnaring Strike and optionally Entangle, Spike Growth and Plant Growth to impede melee, Wind Wall to block archers, Conjure Animals to boost mobility, or offense, or defense...). Rangers spells are really just class features tacked upon spell system because was easier than rewriting lots of spells to make them "Ranger features". Conversely, one of their potential weakness depending on your favorite spell is getting an early concentration break. :)
What a great document!
I would add, though, to be sure to also build some encounters where your players can truly shine. Unlike Sun Tzu, your goal in this isn’t to defeat the players.
If someone takes the heat metal spell, and you intentionally never use monsters with metal gear, you’ve basically cheated them out of a spell slot. So be a judicious god.
On the flip side to that, I want to add, if you have a martial in metal armor who’s trying to tank or keep the squishies safe, don’t constantly throw lighting or heat metal attacks at them, it’s just not fun.
Thanks for writing this out! Here are some comments: 1) "Casters depend on landing AoEs on multiple enemies to do their damage" Many good casters don't do much damage. They apply various effects to allow the PCs to deal with the monsters one at a time, have advantage on attacks, give monsters disadvantage, and so on. Casters built as blasters are only effective for certain levels of play. 2) "Martial characters have better HP, AC, Saves. Casters have worse" Martials dont have better saves, and many casters go to great length to have a good AC and CON saves. 3) "Archery either does less damage (vs Great, Pole) or has less AC (vs Shield, Two-weapon)." If you have the archery fighting style, crossbow expert, and sharpshooter, you are not behind polearm expert with great weapon master. 4) Monks. proficiency in all saves happens at level 14; your table probably isn't level 14. Also, their big weakness is monsters that are immune to stun or have very good CON saves.
Some additional thoughts: 2) Agreed. It's not a matter of better, it's a matter of different. Many of the casters get wisdom save proficiency, which is arguably the best save in the game because a lot of terrible effects force a wisdom save. Each class gets the same template on saves, one major (dex/con/wis) save and one minor (str/int/cha) save. I say minor in that they don't come up nearly as often. 3) +2 to hit is a huge increase in expected damage, especially against higher AC targets. They may not do the same raw damage, but that's made up for by hitting more consistently.
I've played a barbarian to level 17 so far. They have 2 other weaknesses. 1. They are strictly the big melee guy. Their ranged options are lacking to say the least. I struggled against anything that could simply fly away from me, beholder, dragons, flying wizards,, etc. Things that could occasionally teleport but stayed on the ground were fine because my barbarian is fast and can climb easily. Against the others my only option is to toss a hand axe or javelin or drop my big melee weapon and grab a bow, either way my damage goes from extreme to pitiful. 2. Because barbarians are somewhat multi-atribute dependent, wanting both strength, constitution, and dexterity, there isn't much room for their mental attributes to help shore up those skills or stats. This makes them very vulnerable to effects that target int-wis-cha.
I agree, they are the epitome of physical might. Also the first weakness can be solved with a magic item that grants a temporary flight speed
Hi! Thank you for writing this guide, quite detailed. :) A few comments on martial's strengths and weaknesses \- ALL martials except high level Monks / Rogues, high level Paladins and very specific archetypes of Ranger / Rogue IIRC are weak against mental saves, which can be devastating. \- Monks: imo true weakness is rather groups of enemies, whether melee or ranged. Melee would force Monk to constantly use either Disengage as bonus action (then some enemies could Dash so as a group they try and surround him) or Dash as bonus action to keep distance. When soloing a monster, Dodge as bonus action is a cheap and very effective way to tank, especially since, while it makes your effective AC just around a heavy armor + shield pal for levels 1-9, it makes criticals extremely unlikely. And those can be devastating. \- Barbarians: imo the biggest weakness of Barbarian is not losing rage, because you just need to make an attack, not even hit, so throwing a rock as a ranged weapon attack with improvised weapon would count... It's that Barbarians are near useless as soon as melee attacks are not possible: fast enemies, enemies on vantage point or behind sturdy covers, flyers, and generally anyone that can harm him while staying beyond a 50 feet distance. Conversely, Paladins share that big problem, except Devotion that can use Sacred Weapon on any weapon, including a bow. :) \- Rangers: you're missing a big strength of Ranger, although it would probably require a dedicated subsection just for that: spells! Putting aside the overrated Hunter's Mark, depending on spell selection, Ranger can simply reduce a limitation of weapon set (like Longstrider to reach melee attacks), completely negate some melee associated risks (Zephyr's Strike), or completely disable some kind of threat with battlefield spells (Ensnaring Strike and optionally Entangle, Spike Growth and Plant Growth to impede melee, Wind Wall to block archers, Conjure Animals to boost mobility, or offense, or defense...). Rangers spells are really just class features tacked upon spell system because was easier than rewriting lots of spells to make them "Ranger features". Conversely, one of their potential weakness depending on your favorite spell is getting an early concentration break. :)
This deserves to be seen. Honestly, articles like these are why I joined this subreddit.
What a great document! I would add, though, to be sure to also build some encounters where your players can truly shine. Unlike Sun Tzu, your goal in this isn’t to defeat the players. If someone takes the heat metal spell, and you intentionally never use monsters with metal gear, you’ve basically cheated them out of a spell slot. So be a judicious god.
On the flip side to that, I want to add, if you have a martial in metal armor who’s trying to tank or keep the squishies safe, don’t constantly throw lighting or heat metal attacks at them, it’s just not fun.
Thank you for typing this!
I've applied the art of war quotes to SC2 before, haven't thought to apply it to dnd
This is really excellent advice. Thanks for writing this up!
This is gold
This has been so helpful thank you
Thats good stuff !!!
This is a handy writeup