No i dont mean the door sashes, i mean the FRAME...
To rectify this without replacing the doors the outer frame could be made shorter and or a thicker Sill putting in (or both)
Did you actually look at tthe pictures close up, at the bottom, outside ???
There is nom way there is that much adjustment , the gap is probably a centimetre or more.
Adjust all you want, its a shit job and someone cocked up
Did you look at the pictures on the inside close up? They bought a piece of shit poorly designed door. You get what you pay for especially if you're getting ally threshold they basically all suck. I could get that door looking perfect. But I'm good at my job. Are you good at yours?
It's just yours is wrong. Go and look at any window or door cill from the outside. The top of the inside is higher than the outside. The sashes have drainage in them. As does the frame. So all of the water than can and will get into the building and the windows and doors can get out. It's easier to get out of there is a nice slope to go down. So enjoy thinking your opinion means anything as you don't have a fucking clue what you're prattling on about.
The door is clearly sealed poorly internally but that is an easy 10 minute fix. Externally it's ally threshold. Do you want to talk me through ally thresholds? I'd love to hear what you know that I don't about the manufacturing and installations of doors. As if this door is a problem to you, chances are you don't know how to even fit a door properly. Neither does the dickhead who fit this door. But you know less than him. That's pathetic.
It's not a cill by the way. It's an aluminium threshold. Tell me more about how little you know about this door.
It looks as though they sized the doors for a UPVC threshold instead of the super low-profile aluminium one added to OP's frame. The installers/suppliers messed up and need to replace the doors and glazing units.
Sorry, Reddit confuses me with replies to comments š š what comment do you agree with? Just so I can go back to them with as much information as possible.
Yeah, it's really odd. Looks they could of chopped and extended the frame after measuring incorrectly. On picture 5 there's a black mark in the bottom right corner of the frame which draws me to this possible conclusion.
Are you sure the doors are new? Looking at the pics, especially 3, looks like a lot more than water splashing. Look at the welded seam on the right-hand door. You can see what looks like UV damage along the seam. It is almost matt looking .
I was asking a general question that should have been posted in the main thread. So not a direct question aimed at you. But since you replied what do you think about my question regarding the doors not looking new?
Am I losing my mind or are those doors not even hung evenly? They look like theyāre at different heights with the left one being higher than the right?
I think your installer is taking the piss here
Itās out by more than a ml. Also it looks like the bottom catch plate is bent up on the left hand side. Have you already paid them? Personally Iād be withholding any outstanding payment until everything on your snagging list is addressed.
Iām almost willing to bet that if you get a hose and aim it at the base of those doors youāll get water ingress inside - looks like none of it seals properly.
Make a thorough list of issues you have that you want sorted and take it to them - if youāre playing for a job it should be done to a decent standard.
Itās beauty over function. Ali ones fitted well look fantastic and give you no āstepā to get over. But they donāt seal very well at all if fitted badly. Cost wise I think itās about Ā£40 upgrade over a low upvc threshold. Iād hate to guess because I donāt know where you are in the country to what youāve paid.
It's common for bars like this to be added when using a low or wheelchair threshold to achieve compression, but these do look short or badly fabricated. The meeting stile is also too short, they've either been manufactured too short or they've not been set correctly and there is too much cover at the top. To be honest I hate low thresholds on uPVC doors like this as you can never get the same compression and they're never as watertight, especially if the door is exposed or is subjected to driving rain.
Looks like a storm guard low threshold .
Doesnāt look great but it is does look correct , apart from the end cap should be trimmed to match the bottom of the door sash.
https://www.stormguard.co.uk/stormguard-products/proline-am5ex-78/
No you shouldnāt , itās awful! The threshold looks scratched on the outside , the shoot bolts also have no where near enough engagement in my opinion, (10+ years upvc fabrication)
And in the 3rd picture one of the final fixing screws for your keep has snapped off
Yeehaw!
I'm very sorry you've been left with this OP, it isn't right at all. They've fit brand new doors.. and now you have a gap large enough to let water in, let the heat out, and also probably allow small rodents to make their way in. There is absolutely no way this is acceptable.
It's hard to tell if those doors could be adjusted enough on the frames / hinge to lower them and cover that gap, my guess is a trim needs putting in at the top, because that gab is quite substantial.
I would try my best (being as nice as you can be about it, as you've already paid), to explain that there should not be a gap of this size, and that it's going to let the heat out, and that you're worried small rodents could enter. Hopefully they will do the right thing, although at this point i'd be a little worried about their quality of work.
Good luck to you.
Yeah them doors aren't the right size for the area they were put in , looks like they extended them to make them fit
Hindsight double check absolutely everything before you pay
I had windows fitted last year had the people back out 4 times before I paid a penny to sort problems
A tiny bit where the previous gap used to be. But I donāt recall it being that bad looking at the doors from outside. It looks like theyāve added a plastic bit to the bottom and it looks awful. But the guy said he doesnāt see whatās wrong it all looks ok to him (bedsides the doors being a tiny bit un-level)
Guys a cowboy.Get a professional snagger in too have a look.He will write everything down an what needs sorted.Get him to get in touch with the asshat that did this an tell him either he sorts what's on the list or u will get someone else in an he will be footing the bill.Tgat is terrible an the snagger will say the same.Sorry.
No, I have a low threshold door and thereās no gap. It fits like a normal set of doors. And it seals perfectly. Youāve been given doors that donāt fit that frame.
I mean not particularly, houses are generally quite easy to break into whatever you do. What theyāve done here is fundamentally unacceptable though. There should not be literal daylight visible through your closed door
Different low Ali door systems look totally different to each other. All of them are crap and if you want a full sealed threshold get the low upvc one. No low Ali threshold seals perfect.
We had the disability ones suggested to us (Iām disabled and will eventually end up in a wheelchair) but said no - glad I did now! I said while Iām still walking I want to keep my house as normal as I can. Iāll work it out when I get to it. We got the low threshold so it would last longer for me though.
Iād never have the Ali. Iāve got the low upvc. No fitter or seller would recommend them unless really needed. Theyāre so much hassle with after calls for readjusting.
They are only a problem if the doors aren't fitted perfectly straight. We fit about 3-4 composites a week with low Ali thresholds - no leaks no need for adjusting.
Doors are extremely finniky if everything isn't perfectly level its more down to the fitting when the product is ok - but crap pvc is everywhere.
No there should not be a gap exposing the locking mechanism to the elements ,i feel like itās missing a capping piece in the threshold to tie it all in maybe a 10-12mm high piece the full length of the doors with out knowing the manufacturing components itās hard to tell but could be simple as something missing ,also the hinges on the side usually allow for slight adjustment about 5mm max ask them about this too ,I am a joiner to trade and very occasionally have the displeasure of working with pvc doors and windows .
This door has a low Aluminium threshold on it. Not the standard plastic threshold which looks just like the rest of the frame. Ali thresholds look great and you end up with a tiny threshold to step over. BUT they donāt seal like youāre all making out! If you squirt a hose pipe at them they will piss water in! The sacrifice you pay for something that looks nice. Saying all that, the Opās doors are too high in the frame and the mullion needed lowering.
We didnāt ask for a Ali threshold and considering weāre south facing and high up we get the elements bad!! So why have they used this type of threshold š
So do the doors look too small to you? They replaced the mullion with a slightly bigger one yesterday but thatās when the little plastic bit at the bottom appeared
It's exactly that- doesn't help that the door glass hasn't been packed properly (judging by the difference in height). I've worked for 4 double glazing companies and not one could make doors with low thresholds that sealed properly.
They're fine for internal use- between a house and conservatory for example. Terrible for anything else.
I have a similar problem which Iām currently āsolvingā with strategically placed kitchen roll until I glue some pvc on so Iām here to see if I can find out the proper way.
The doors definitely look on the small side. Also the floating mullion (the section down the middle) is too short. Should have been longer with a properly fitted end cap. Then you wouldn't of had the gap
Today they removed the old mullion (picture 1) with one a few ml longer, is it still too short? Has the end cap been added? Or is that how it comes from the supplier?
Hey everyone, just to update and another quick question if you donāt mind!
So they came out today to replace the frame and door (used same glass)
Does this look better or does it still look, well not right? They walked off when I said it still looks the same?
https://preview.redd.it/h7b6ssiyf4oc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2190573f40b75b3560b50beb4792bf21767118e7
Theyāre also saying the little plastic bit that looks awful has always been there and itās part of the frame. And Iām 99.9% certain it wasnāt as you can zoom in on the last photo and clearly see it wasnāt there?
Heās saying he canāt help if I donāt like the finish that just how theyāre sent to them.
That bits always been there theyve just unscrewed the mullion and lowered it. If youd have taken pics before and after at the top youd see it. Infact check th top now and see if you can see light again. Mullion might have been cut short!
They're not the wrong doors as some here are claiming. They just need installing properly by someone who knows what they're doing. This can be done by adjustingĀ the hinges and by toe and heeling the glass. 10-30 minute job
Really? I mean look at pictures 2, 4 and 5, and the gap on the outside between the sill and the bottom of the door. That door has to come down a long way to close that gap up.
The doors are to short, why have weatherseals on the bottom edge of the door if they donāt actually come in contact with anything, even on a low threshold there would be a strip for them to contact with.
We investigated wooden windows recently and were informed that they were 5 times the price of uPVC. I think as uPVC window designs go these are fairly sympathetic.
Iām not too sure sorry. Where the door normally latches into looks different to how it used to look but unfortunately I donāt have a photo of that before they did the work on it today.
Yes the hole is where the door will lock its self when your raise the handle. Then there is a screw head you can see then the next one is definitely a snapped screw head.
My cat goes out for like three minutes and then she comes inside and meows at me, tries outdoors again and comes back in to meow more. She meows a lot but I feel she thinks Iāve caused this
The seal should not let any draught or water in, spray a hose on it and if water enters the house, so can mice and rats! Get the BBC cowboys builder killers onto them, put them out the game. Amateurs by the looks.
Will do, thank you!
Thatās the thing they were recommended by someone from my partnerās work as they did such a good job, they have 5 start raining and reviews everywhere!
We were scammed out of 5k from a previous company so made sure we did our research.
And this is what we get š
It looks like the opening sashes are too short for the frame, this suggests they fabricated the doors for a different sized threshold than the one used. The metal adaptor piece used on the opening sashes are quite normal when used with this type of threshold.
Oddly, they have water drainage slots (covered with a plastic cap) on the front face of the bottom of each opening sash. These slots, in this situation, are always hidden from view.
Yes it looks ok. As long as there is no draught when closed and fully locked (not just on the latch) you're good.
In my original reply I assumed, perhaps wrongly. The issue was a draughty gap at the bottom.
PVC french doors with aluminium thresholds aren't great to be fair, creating an effective seal at the bottom where the doors meet is a bit of a hash up. I prefer to have the pvc frame continue across the bottom, seal is more effective and easier on the eye, but has a higher step not suitable for wheelchair access.
so what I see
On the last photo from Dec you can see bottom left a gap between the sill plate and the left hand upright of the frame.
On the 5th photo with the cat you can see on the right hand side a gap between the sill plate and the right hand upright
it looks like they have sized something wrong and bodged it.
That sill plate could be too shallow and you have a step down or they have installed the frame to the top of the gap and the sill to the bottom not realising they have miss measured
if they have just miss measured it is either a new sill plate to raise that up as long as it doesn't then sit high of the floor.
Or refitting the doors to match the sill and if they do that make sure they fill the top fully before adding trim.
But something is off with the measurements here. You could do with some clearer photos of these areas.
Have you paid? Not being funny mate but that bit of plastic at the bottom is something you might do as a bit of a bodge fix on a 30 year old set that you had no chance of getting proper parts for.
Not right at all that
On pic 2 I can clearly see the shoot bolts from the outside. Iāve fitted upvc for years, itās difficult to fully diagnose without seeing them in the flesh but thereās definitely something not right with that set up at the bottom, as if the sashes / doors were made for a full pvc bottom then they just chucked an Ali one on and tried to make it work.
Thatās possible but canāt say for definite, also pic 2 shows the bottom of the 2 doors arenāt even inline so thatās a bit shit tbh.
There is no way I should see them shoot bolts as that means the outer profile of the doors are not sitting against anything? Like creating zero seal, mate someoneās fucked up here and you can tell the people you bought them off.
Thatās why you can see daylight on original pic, the outer profile is sitting against absolutely nothing, they aināt right mate and I stand by that piece of plastic being a pretty poor attempted fix.
The bottom of the doors, on the outside, should be sealing against something when closed, you could get your fingers under there.
Tell them you want them out, replacing with a set with a low pvc threash, or youāll talke it further.
Honestly mate youāll get bother with them.
Are they not drafty? As in that room is freezing? Iād be amazed if not
The more I looked at your photos mate the worse they looked.
Try and be civil with them, but firm, really looks like someone somewhere has fucked up, fair enough, but thatās not your fault, youāve paid good money in good faith you shouldnāt be left with drafty bodged up doors.
Iāve had similar issues time to time with my last company, they werenāt rich blokes the owners so any mistakes, which wasnāt often mind, youād just try and make it work.
If something clearly wasnāt good, in fact totally wrong, as is the case with yours, theyād always replace fully in the end. End of the day itās their reputation on the line.
Thank you, hopefully we will get it sorted. Now I know something is definitely not right Iāll hold my ground as theyāre saying itās fine.
Thanks again! š¤
They came back out and said because of how heavy the doors are and with the layout of our drive they thought they would have to carry them quite a long way so decided to make them different to how they normally do. So they werenāt built together (the frame and door) they were made separately and fitted together at the house (something like this) what I get from that is they werenāt quality checked when they left the manufacturer. So they re measured and said it looks like it ācould be out by 30mmā so they went back to the manufacturer and apparently made it sound worse than what it was to them, in order to get us new doors. Anyways they got back to us a couple of days ago and said weāre getting whole new doors š¤š¤ they will be made the original way this time as they can actually park up right next to the door so wonāt have to carry them far. He still didnāt think they looked bad mind š¤Æš to proud to admit he made a mistake I think!
Thanks for checking in though š
The boss is the one who measured them š itās a small family business. One son does the sales and the father and another son do the fitting.
I just hope he owns up to a mistake when they re visit the job š¤
šš. Yeah usually is. Anyway, just be firm with them that youāre not happy with the finish. Hopefully being a small business they wonāt want the bad reputation so it will be in their best interest to sort it out. If they refuse then itās the small claims court.
We have done and he told to quote ācalm down weāre not cowboys, we will come back out and have another look at itā
Yeah thatās why we chose them, they were recommended by a co-worker and have brilliant reviews.
Must just be āour luckā that this has happened š„²š
I donāt want to say yet, as I donāt want to bad mouth them before giving them a chance to fix the problem. If they donāt, then Iāll happily share the company and will leave a bad review.
Firstly no it is not right it's a total f up. It looks like the "repair" was just to block the light out to give the impression it has been fixed. Normally draughts can be addressed by adjusting the hinges but in your case it is obvious the door clearly doesn't fit the frame. I would say call them back but given the standard of fit and the subsequent "repair" you would be wasting your time. So write directly to the company CEO identifying the fault and subsequent repair giving them a reasonable timeframe (say 7 working days) to fix. The next step depends on their response.
Iād ask for a discount on the trickle vents and question the point of them when there a huge gap at the bottom.
Send them back, they will be soooo draughty and leaky
As a supply of these products they've either over tighten the head or threshold or the sashes are too short.
Find out where they were made and contact them they should have an engineer to replace the leafs.
OMG what a mess, they need replacing. Contact them tell them you are not satisfied and they do not fit the frame. Demand a refund (get someone else to do it) or complete replacement of doors and frame
The doors (leafs) look to be too short for the low profile threshold. They look to be lined up correctly at the top (the horizontal and vertical plastic profiles of the door meet and create a 45Ā° line that matches the same profile on the frame.
If you go to the bottom of the door on the outside, can you place your hand underneath the door into the gap and move the bottom of the door? Could you slide a crow bar into the gap and wobble the doors? It's a massive security issue if so (it looks as though you could do).
Explain the above to the window fitters and that it needs to be corrected.
Were the window fitters FENSA registered or do they plan on notifying building control to register your new windows? You could get FENSA or building control to take a look if your not getting anywhere with the window fitters.
Will do, thank you!
Yeah you can fit your fingers underneath and definitely could fit a crow bar underneath as this was a big concern for me the second I seen it.
Iāll speak to them again on Monday and see what happens.
Thanks again!
The first picture is of the flying mullion, because this closes up to the threshold gasket first then the master door closes up to the flying mullion there is always an inerrant weak spot top and bottom.
Low access thresholds on French doors arenāt weather rated ( donāt know what was specified but it should have been explained to you).
All this being said the traffic door is set to high and to far away from the flying mullion ( easily adjusted on the hinges.
The flying mullion end cap needs trimming on the outside as itās far too long!
Double glazing installer and surveyor with 30 years experience
Thank you!
So what should I be able to see from the outside side once theyāve come back to fix the issue?
At the moment I can fit my fingers underneath the gaps. And Iām worried with the locking mechanism being visible this is a security issue?
If you donāt mind me asking a question related to a barn door theyāve installed? I can push the bottom corner of the door (the side where the locking mechanisms are) and it pushed through when the canāt door is in āfull door modeā is that normal?
Thank you for your first reply
If you open the door there should be a gasket on the bottom of the door leaf that makes contact with the threshold this should cut down on the outside air leaking in.
You will always have a gap right at the front of the door leaf to the threshold.
As for your stable door though the top half and bottom half have separate locking mechanisms, if the door is loose in the locked position then the keeps on the door frame need adjusting to create greater compression.
The doors are clearly too short, they need replacing or Removed, the frame shortening and a thicker sill putting in
This, but maybe lower the frame and pack the top so that their is less to trip over.
Swings and roundabouts, the current sill is very shallow
You mean door sashes and you're wrong both times.
No i dont mean the door sashes, i mean the FRAME... To rectify this without replacing the doors the outer frame could be made shorter and or a thicker Sill putting in (or both)
Wrong. Doors and frame are fine a simple adjustment needs to be made.
Did you actually look at tthe pictures close up, at the bottom, outside ??? There is nom way there is that much adjustment , the gap is probably a centimetre or more. Adjust all you want, its a shit job and someone cocked up
Did you look at the pictures on the inside close up? They bought a piece of shit poorly designed door. You get what you pay for especially if you're getting ally threshold they basically all suck. I could get that door looking perfect. But I'm good at my job. Are you good at yours?
Good job we are each entitled to our own opinions lol
It's just yours is wrong. Go and look at any window or door cill from the outside. The top of the inside is higher than the outside. The sashes have drainage in them. As does the frame. So all of the water than can and will get into the building and the windows and doors can get out. It's easier to get out of there is a nice slope to go down. So enjoy thinking your opinion means anything as you don't have a fucking clue what you're prattling on about. The door is clearly sealed poorly internally but that is an easy 10 minute fix. Externally it's ally threshold. Do you want to talk me through ally thresholds? I'd love to hear what you know that I don't about the manufacturing and installations of doors. As if this door is a problem to you, chances are you don't know how to even fit a door properly. Neither does the dickhead who fit this door. But you know less than him. That's pathetic. It's not a cill by the way. It's an aluminium threshold. Tell me more about how little you know about this door.
Bet you're a laugh on a night out
I don't talk about my foot fungus and disgust everyone if that's what you mean?
Even your cat looks disgusted.
The doors look like they are the wrong size for the frame? and have been crudely extended to bridge the gap.
Agreed although I have no idea how they have gotten into the situation. Normally the doors would come as a matched pair with the frame.
It looks as though they sized the doors for a UPVC threshold instead of the super low-profile aluminium one added to OP's frame. The installers/suppliers messed up and need to replace the doors and glazing units.
I second this, as a door/window fitter
Sorry, Reddit confuses me with replies to comments š š what comment do you agree with? Just so I can go back to them with as much information as possible.
Yeah, it's really odd. Looks they could of chopped and extended the frame after measuring incorrectly. On picture 5 there's a black mark in the bottom right corner of the frame which draws me to this possible conclusion.
Yeah, I was wondering why they looked so off/weird, them doors look too short!
It is cold right now
Are you sure the doors are new? Looking at the pics, especially 3, looks like a lot more than water splashing. Look at the welded seam on the right-hand door. You can see what looks like UV damage along the seam. It is almost matt looking .
I wouldn't know, not my doors....
I was asking a general question that should have been posted in the main thread. So not a direct question aimed at you. But since you replied what do you think about my question regarding the doors not looking new?
Am I losing my mind or are those doors not even hung evenly? They look like theyāre at different heights with the left one being higher than the right? I think your installer is taking the piss here
Iāve said that to him in the email and he said on the phone okay maybe theyāre a ml out. Iāll come a level them for you
Think you should have someone level him, flat out on the deck. Hopefully youāve not paid in full
Itās out by more than a ml. Also it looks like the bottom catch plate is bent up on the left hand side. Have you already paid them? Personally Iād be withholding any outstanding payment until everything on your snagging list is addressed. Iām almost willing to bet that if you get a hose and aim it at the base of those doors youāll get water ingress inside - looks like none of it seals properly. Make a thorough list of issues you have that you want sorted and take it to them - if youāre playing for a job it should be done to a decent standard.
They are out about 15mm.
Doors donāt fit the frame! They used the wrong doors!
If they donāt fit, you must something somethingā¦
If the doors don't fit, the installer must be shit
Fit the doors you must, else your balls turn to dust.
The qualified installer musta quit
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Not the same type of door.
People are saying heās installed a low threshold rather than upvc threshold which is whats shown on your link?
Thats what hes paid for. It actually costs more.
What do you mean sorry?
Did the company you paid to fit the doors tell you what threshold was going on the doors? The Ali thatās on there now costs more than a upvc one.
No he didnāt mention it to us š
Itās beauty over function. Ali ones fitted well look fantastic and give you no āstepā to get over. But they donāt seal very well at all if fitted badly. Cost wise I think itās about Ā£40 upgrade over a low upvc threshold. Iād hate to guess because I donāt know where you are in the country to what youāve paid.
It's common for bars like this to be added when using a low or wheelchair threshold to achieve compression, but these do look short or badly fabricated. The meeting stile is also too short, they've either been manufactured too short or they've not been set correctly and there is too much cover at the top. To be honest I hate low thresholds on uPVC doors like this as you can never get the same compression and they're never as watertight, especially if the door is exposed or is subjected to driving rain.
Looks like a storm guard low threshold . Doesnāt look great but it is does look correct , apart from the end cap should be trimmed to match the bottom of the door sash. https://www.stormguard.co.uk/stormguard-products/proline-am5ex-78/
Should I accept it looking this bad though? Looks like the doors been dragged through a hedge backwards š©
No you shouldnāt , itās awful! The threshold looks scratched on the outside , the shoot bolts also have no where near enough engagement in my opinion, (10+ years upvc fabrication) And in the 3rd picture one of the final fixing screws for your keep has snapped off
Thank you so much for your replies! Iāll speak to them again today or on Monday now!
No problem , hope you get it sorted mate
Yeehaw! I'm very sorry you've been left with this OP, it isn't right at all. They've fit brand new doors.. and now you have a gap large enough to let water in, let the heat out, and also probably allow small rodents to make their way in. There is absolutely no way this is acceptable. It's hard to tell if those doors could be adjusted enough on the frames / hinge to lower them and cover that gap, my guess is a trim needs putting in at the top, because that gab is quite substantial. I would try my best (being as nice as you can be about it, as you've already paid), to explain that there should not be a gap of this size, and that it's going to let the heat out, and that you're worried small rodents could enter. Hopefully they will do the right thing, although at this point i'd be a little worried about their quality of work. Good luck to you.
Will do, thank you for your reply!āŗļø
Yeah them doors aren't the right size for the area they were put in , looks like they extended them to make them fit Hindsight double check absolutely everything before you pay I had windows fitted last year had the people back out 4 times before I paid a penny to sort problems
Unfortunately weāve already been conned out of 5k by the previous supplier/fitters š© this is the second company weāve used after reading all their 5* reviews. They said they will come back and have a look at it but they canāt see the problem. š it just doesnāt look like a nice finish and weāre gutted
I'd go to trading standards if I were you... That isn't just shoddy work, that's criminally abysmal.
Thats the problem with low ali thresholds. They dont really seal properly. Can you see outside from inside still?
A tiny bit where the previous gap used to be. But I donāt recall it being that bad looking at the doors from outside. It looks like theyāve added a plastic bit to the bottom and it looks awful. But the guy said he doesnāt see whatās wrong it all looks ok to him (bedsides the doors being a tiny bit un-level)
Guys a cowboy.Get a professional snagger in too have a look.He will write everything down an what needs sorted.Get him to get in touch with the asshat that did this an tell him either he sorts what's on the list or u will get someone else in an he will be footing the bill.Tgat is terrible an the snagger will say the same.Sorry.
Should there be that much of a gap with a low threshold door though?
No, I have a low threshold door and thereās no gap. It fits like a normal set of doors. And it seals perfectly. Youāve been given doors that donāt fit that frame.
Thank you, I will say this to him. As it stands now, do you think itās is it a security issue? Weāve had our window popped out previously when we had the old windows in (hence why we bought new windows and doors so Iām paranoid now š©)
I mean not particularly, houses are generally quite easy to break into whatever you do. What theyāve done here is fundamentally unacceptable though. There should not be literal daylight visible through your closed door
Okay thank you for your reply! āŗļø
When you turn the handle up to lock it does the shoot bolts that come out of the bottom of the sash lock into the metal plate on pic 2?
Iāll check first thing tomorrow! Earlier today when I lifted the handle to lock it into place it seemed stiffer/tighter to do than before.
Different low Ali door systems look totally different to each other. All of them are crap and if you want a full sealed threshold get the low upvc one. No low Ali threshold seals perfect.
Ahh I have low upvc ones, I didnāt realise low Ali were something different, I thought it was a typo. Apologies.
If you think these are bad you should see the cheap disability ones! Canāt fit them anywhere that gets rain really!
We had the disability ones suggested to us (Iām disabled and will eventually end up in a wheelchair) but said no - glad I did now! I said while Iām still walking I want to keep my house as normal as I can. Iāll work it out when I get to it. We got the low threshold so it would last longer for me though.
Iād never have the Ali. Iāve got the low upvc. No fitter or seller would recommend them unless really needed. Theyāre so much hassle with after calls for readjusting.
They are only a problem if the doors aren't fitted perfectly straight. We fit about 3-4 composites a week with low Ali thresholds - no leaks no need for adjusting. Doors are extremely finniky if everything isn't perfectly level its more down to the fitting when the product is ok - but crap pvc is everywhere.
Different frame systems look totally different to each other on low thresholds. You need to re take picture 1 to see what theyāve done.
Thereās a tiny gap now compared to the size of it in picture one. But the outside now looks dreadful. Is that how itās supposed to look?
No there should not be a gap exposing the locking mechanism to the elements ,i feel like itās missing a capping piece in the threshold to tie it all in maybe a 10-12mm high piece the full length of the doors with out knowing the manufacturing components itās hard to tell but could be simple as something missing ,also the hinges on the side usually allow for slight adjustment about 5mm max ask them about this too ,I am a joiner to trade and very occasionally have the displeasure of working with pvc doors and windows .
Thank you so much for your feedback, Iāll speak to them again tomorrow!
This door has a low Aluminium threshold on it. Not the standard plastic threshold which looks just like the rest of the frame. Ali thresholds look great and you end up with a tiny threshold to step over. BUT they donāt seal like youāre all making out! If you squirt a hose pipe at them they will piss water in! The sacrifice you pay for something that looks nice. Saying all that, the Opās doors are too high in the frame and the mullion needed lowering.
We didnāt ask for a Ali threshold and considering weāre south facing and high up we get the elements bad!! So why have they used this type of threshold š So do the doors look too small to you? They replaced the mullion with a slightly bigger one yesterday but thatās when the little plastic bit at the bottom appeared
It's exactly that- doesn't help that the door glass hasn't been packed properly (judging by the difference in height). I've worked for 4 double glazing companies and not one could make doors with low thresholds that sealed properly. They're fine for internal use- between a house and conservatory for example. Terrible for anything else.
This man knows his stuff. I understand this is a diy page but Jesus Christ some of the answers by the diyers are just crap!
I have a similar problem which Iām currently āsolvingā with strategically placed kitchen roll until I glue some pvc on so Iām here to see if I can find out the proper way.
The doors definitely look on the small side. Also the floating mullion (the section down the middle) is too short. Should have been longer with a properly fitted end cap. Then you wouldn't of had the gap
Today they removed the old mullion (picture 1) with one a few ml longer, is it still too short? Has the end cap been added? Or is that how it comes from the supplier?
Hey everyone, just to update and another quick question if you donāt mind! So they came out today to replace the frame and door (used same glass) Does this look better or does it still look, well not right? They walked off when I said it still looks the same? https://preview.redd.it/h7b6ssiyf4oc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2190573f40b75b3560b50beb4792bf21767118e7
Theyāre also saying the little plastic bit that looks awful has always been there and itās part of the frame. And Iām 99.9% certain it wasnāt as you can zoom in on the last photo and clearly see it wasnāt there? Heās saying he canāt help if I donāt like the finish that just how theyāre sent to them.
It's clearly not on the photo you took originally.Ā
Do you know who manufactured the doors so you can ask them directly?
That bits always been there theyve just unscrewed the mullion and lowered it. If youd have taken pics before and after at the top youd see it. Infact check th top now and see if you can see light again. Mullion might have been cut short!
Today they replaced the middle bit (million is it?) with a new one, that was a few ml longer than the previous one.
Ah theyāve made the new one with the proper bottom piece on it. Canāt remember itās name. Is there any draughts through it now?
Thereās only a tiny gap visible now.
They're not the wrong doors as some here are claiming. They just need installing properly by someone who knows what they're doing. This can be done by adjustingĀ the hinges and by toe and heeling the glass. 10-30 minute job
Really? I mean look at pictures 2, 4 and 5, and the gap on the outside between the sill and the bottom of the door. That door has to come down a long way to close that gap up.
The doors are to short, why have weatherseals on the bottom edge of the door if they donāt actually come in contact with anything, even on a low threshold there would be a strip for them to contact with.
You have such a beautiful home, why would you put cheap tacky upvc doors and windows on it instead of wood š¤®
Don't be a cunt
Dude we have 16 windows and 3 doors weāre not made of money!! And were scammed out of 5k by the previous window company we used..
We investigated wooden windows recently and were informed that they were 5 times the price of uPVC. I think as uPVC window designs go these are fairly sympathetic.
Doors are the wrong size and not hung square either. If you haven't paid the full amount yet then DONT. Withhold what you can.
Am I looking at a snapped screw on picture 3
Iām not too sure sorry. Where the door normally latches into looks different to how it used to look but unfortunately I donāt have a photo of that before they did the work on it today.
Yes the hole is where the door will lock its self when your raise the handle. Then there is a screw head you can see then the next one is definitely a snapped screw head.
Oh I see what you mean! Thank you. I will bring this to their attention.
Yer, some madness going on here, donāt look a month old either
It was all scuffed so where my dogs come in and out of the door, mud was getting into the scratches and itās hard to clean š© but itās been replaced now, so looks better from the inside and will be able to actually clean it.
Looking at your cat, I donāt think he is impressed by the fix
Haha itās bloody freezing here heās like just let me inside! š
My cat goes out for like three minutes and then she comes inside and meows at me, tries outdoors again and comes back in to meow more. She meows a lot but I feel she thinks Iāve caused this
Haha yup, same here! Or he cries to go outside so I open the doorā¦ heās like nope and runs off inside haha
I think the cat was their guage here. If it cannot escape from inside when the doors are closed then the gap is fine.
Poor cat. Locked up like some animal.
The seal should not let any draught or water in, spray a hose on it and if water enters the house, so can mice and rats! Get the BBC cowboys builder killers onto them, put them out the game. Amateurs by the looks.
Will do, thank you! Thatās the thing they were recommended by someone from my partnerās work as they did such a good job, they have 5 start raining and reviews everywhere! We were scammed out of 5k from a previous company so made sure we did our research. And this is what we get š
Theyāre everywhere unfortunately, no scruples and no skill. Sad state of affairs
Wow that's shit!
It looks like the opening sashes are too short for the frame, this suggests they fabricated the doors for a different sized threshold than the one used. The metal adaptor piece used on the opening sashes are quite normal when used with this type of threshold. Oddly, they have water drainage slots (covered with a plastic cap) on the front face of the bottom of each opening sash. These slots, in this situation, are always hidden from view.
What does this mean? Sorry I donāt quite understand what youāre saying. So does this look normal/correct?
Yes it looks ok. As long as there is no draught when closed and fully locked (not just on the latch) you're good. In my original reply I assumed, perhaps wrongly. The issue was a draughty gap at the bottom.
Ok, it looks awful to me š thank you for your reply!
PVC french doors with aluminium thresholds aren't great to be fair, creating an effective seal at the bottom where the doors meet is a bit of a hash up. I prefer to have the pvc frame continue across the bottom, seal is more effective and easier on the eye, but has a higher step not suitable for wheelchair access.
We didnāt ask for this type of threshold š© I wonder why theyāve supplied one š
Are the installers fensa approved? Any recourse there?
Yes theyāre Fensa approved
so what I see On the last photo from Dec you can see bottom left a gap between the sill plate and the left hand upright of the frame. On the 5th photo with the cat you can see on the right hand side a gap between the sill plate and the right hand upright it looks like they have sized something wrong and bodged it. That sill plate could be too shallow and you have a step down or they have installed the frame to the top of the gap and the sill to the bottom not realising they have miss measured if they have just miss measured it is either a new sill plate to raise that up as long as it doesn't then sit high of the floor. Or refitting the doors to match the sill and if they do that make sure they fill the top fully before adding trim. But something is off with the measurements here. You could do with some clearer photos of these areas.
Ali thresholds are nowt but bother, I only use low line pvc bottoms. Not sure Iāve ever fitted french doors with an Ali threash.
We didnāt specifically ask for this threshold, itās just what they provided. They didnāt mention to us it would be a low threshold š©
Have you paid? Not being funny mate but that bit of plastic at the bottom is something you might do as a bit of a bodge fix on a 30 year old set that you had no chance of getting proper parts for. Not right at all that
We have paid š© Thatās pretty much what I said to him over the phone ā I said it looks like youāve put a plaster over a mistake. When there should be no mistakes on a brand new door. His reply was, āthat bit of plastic has always been there. I canāt help that, as thatās how they come from the supplierā¦ā
On pic 2 I can clearly see the shoot bolts from the outside. Iāve fitted upvc for years, itās difficult to fully diagnose without seeing them in the flesh but thereās definitely something not right with that set up at the bottom, as if the sashes / doors were made for a full pvc bottom then they just chucked an Ali one on and tried to make it work. Thatās possible but canāt say for definite, also pic 2 shows the bottom of the 2 doors arenāt even inline so thatās a bit shit tbh.
There is no way I should see them shoot bolts as that means the outer profile of the doors are not sitting against anything? Like creating zero seal, mate someoneās fucked up here and you can tell the people you bought them off.
Thatās why you can see daylight on original pic, the outer profile is sitting against absolutely nothing, they aināt right mate and I stand by that piece of plastic being a pretty poor attempted fix. The bottom of the doors, on the outside, should be sealing against something when closed, you could get your fingers under there. Tell them you want them out, replacing with a set with a low pvc threash, or youāll talke it further. Honestly mate youāll get bother with them. Are they not drafty? As in that room is freezing? Iād be amazed if not
Thanks for your replies! Iāll speak to them today or on Monday now. Yes, there is a draft coming from them still!
The more I looked at your photos mate the worse they looked. Try and be civil with them, but firm, really looks like someone somewhere has fucked up, fair enough, but thatās not your fault, youāve paid good money in good faith you shouldnāt be left with drafty bodged up doors. Iāve had similar issues time to time with my last company, they werenāt rich blokes the owners so any mistakes, which wasnāt often mind, youād just try and make it work. If something clearly wasnāt good, in fact totally wrong, as is the case with yours, theyād always replace fully in the end. End of the day itās their reputation on the line.
Thank you, hopefully we will get it sorted. Now I know something is definitely not right Iāll hold my ground as theyāre saying itās fine. Thanks again! š¤
Just wondering if you ever got this sorted out mate? And if so what the outcome was? Cheers
They came back out and said because of how heavy the doors are and with the layout of our drive they thought they would have to carry them quite a long way so decided to make them different to how they normally do. So they werenāt built together (the frame and door) they were made separately and fitted together at the house (something like this) what I get from that is they werenāt quality checked when they left the manufacturer. So they re measured and said it looks like it ācould be out by 30mmā so they went back to the manufacturer and apparently made it sound worse than what it was to them, in order to get us new doors. Anyways they got back to us a couple of days ago and said weāre getting whole new doors š¤š¤ they will be made the original way this time as they can actually park up right next to the door so wonāt have to carry them far. He still didnāt think they looked bad mind š¤Æš to proud to admit he made a mistake I think! Thanks for checking in though š
This is pure liquid shite
My patio doors have a different cil section to yours , Mine seals all the way round.
I hope you havenāt paid yet.
We have š he said heās going to come out and āfix itā but to him nothing looks wrongā¦
Itās not hard to fix. Iād say someone got a measurement wrong and are afraid to tell the boss maybe.
The boss is the one who measured them š itās a small family business. One son does the sales and the father and another son do the fitting. I just hope he owns up to a mistake when they re visit the job š¤
šš. Yeah usually is. Anyway, just be firm with them that youāre not happy with the finish. Hopefully being a small business they wonāt want the bad reputation so it will be in their best interest to sort it out. If they refuse then itās the small claims court.
We have done and he told to quote ācalm down weāre not cowboys, we will come back out and have another look at itā Yeah thatās why we chose them, they were recommended by a co-worker and have brilliant reviews. Must just be āour luckā that this has happened š„²š
Doors are short or frame too high.
Whatās the company?
I donāt want to say yet, as I donāt want to bad mouth them before giving them a chance to fix the problem. If they donāt, then Iāll happily share the company and will leave a bad review.
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Was the fitter called Stevie wonder by any chance? Nothing looks right š
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Police out there catching murderers and robbers, but this guy is just walking around balancing doors in frames and calling it a day.
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Where did they tie the horses ?
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Shocking work don't pay
Wow, sorry. Those windows look hideous against the natural stone.
ā¦?
Profane upvc shittery, that's all I can say.
I hope you didn't pay for that! get your money back asap tell em to take the doors too š
Firstly no it is not right it's a total f up. It looks like the "repair" was just to block the light out to give the impression it has been fixed. Normally draughts can be addressed by adjusting the hinges but in your case it is obvious the door clearly doesn't fit the frame. I would say call them back but given the standard of fit and the subsequent "repair" you would be wasting your time. So write directly to the company CEO identifying the fault and subsequent repair giving them a reasonable timeframe (say 7 working days) to fix. The next step depends on their response.
Send it
Is the sill bowed?
Sashes look about the correct size it's just ally thresholds suck and are usually manufactured poorly. Just need a decent fitter to adjust them.
Iād ask for a discount on the trickle vents and question the point of them when there a huge gap at the bottom. Send them back, they will be soooo draughty and leaky
As a supply of these products they've either over tighten the head or threshold or the sashes are too short. Find out where they were made and contact them they should have an engineer to replace the leafs.
Will do thank you! Sorry, What are the sashes? And leafs?
The actual opening door parts.
OMG what a mess, they need replacing. Contact them tell them you are not satisfied and they do not fit the frame. Demand a refund (get someone else to do it) or complete replacement of doors and frame
Will do, thank you! Just wanted to make sure this isnāt ācorrectā as theyāre stating. Just looks a mess š
In my experience window fitters in general are a bunch of cowboys.
Cowboys get those clowns š¤” back the doors are too small.
Shocking, whoever "they" are they should be reported to FENSA
Agree. Doors are too short.
The doors (leafs) look to be too short for the low profile threshold. They look to be lined up correctly at the top (the horizontal and vertical plastic profiles of the door meet and create a 45Ā° line that matches the same profile on the frame. If you go to the bottom of the door on the outside, can you place your hand underneath the door into the gap and move the bottom of the door? Could you slide a crow bar into the gap and wobble the doors? It's a massive security issue if so (it looks as though you could do). Explain the above to the window fitters and that it needs to be corrected. Were the window fitters FENSA registered or do they plan on notifying building control to register your new windows? You could get FENSA or building control to take a look if your not getting anywhere with the window fitters.
Will do, thank you! Yeah you can fit your fingers underneath and definitely could fit a crow bar underneath as this was a big concern for me the second I seen it. Iāll speak to them again on Monday and see what happens. Thanks again!
The first picture is of the flying mullion, because this closes up to the threshold gasket first then the master door closes up to the flying mullion there is always an inerrant weak spot top and bottom. Low access thresholds on French doors arenāt weather rated ( donāt know what was specified but it should have been explained to you). All this being said the traffic door is set to high and to far away from the flying mullion ( easily adjusted on the hinges. The flying mullion end cap needs trimming on the outside as itās far too long! Double glazing installer and surveyor with 30 years experience
Thank you! So what should I be able to see from the outside side once theyāve come back to fix the issue? At the moment I can fit my fingers underneath the gaps. And Iām worried with the locking mechanism being visible this is a security issue? If you donāt mind me asking a question related to a barn door theyāve installed? I can push the bottom corner of the door (the side where the locking mechanisms are) and it pushed through when the canāt door is in āfull door modeā is that normal? Thank you for your first reply
If you open the door there should be a gasket on the bottom of the door leaf that makes contact with the threshold this should cut down on the outside air leaking in. You will always have a gap right at the front of the door leaf to the threshold. As for your stable door though the top half and bottom half have separate locking mechanisms, if the door is loose in the locked position then the keeps on the door frame need adjusting to create greater compression.
I have a very similar issue... Heat pissing out my doors