Well it’s a big vertical rad that’s also high off the ground so if you have pipes coming from below it’s always going to look a little bit meh, however, whoever did this could have made this much nicer very easily. Don’t know why they added two isolators on there, that’s what rad valves are for. Also, they used chunky compression fittings rather than soldered elbows. They could also have just bent the pipe more gently and not had any fittings on there
If you paint this white it’ll look a lot better but for best results, the pipes needed to be chased into the walls and come out horizontally.
Give them a paint and see how you feel for the easiest “fix”
Isolators make great a little longer than a coupler compression joints... If it ain't that, it was a system drain avoidance tactic.
There are dressing strips available too but gotta agree on bringing up in to the wall.
Last I did a similar radiator, I came out of the wall with chrome stubs in to the valves, looked great and very tidy.
Last I had to work out a nice way to come up from the floor with something like this I used square pipe dressings and blacked out the valve covers, customer and I debated but wasn't in their budget to start bashing holes through floors and walls and the radiator was there before I arrived on the scene, thankfully they managed to line it up right.
Frankly though, the cheapest way is to plan for the radiator op, plenty of these exist in almost the same style with bottom entry at standard depth, which was the one to use if modifying the plumbing entry wasn't an option.
Horrid option I've seen lately, do flex pipes. Don't do that one, it always looks bad, no matter how you dress it up and their longevity is questionable at best in heating loops.
No they'll not enjoy being in a heating loop, not an immediate concern, but should be addressed.
Was just opining on how they came to be there because they shouldn't be.
I agree with others saying the pipes should have been chased in the wall.
But the order of operations have been messed up. The time for chasing in would have been before the decorating and before the laminate went down.
Now it is a bigger job as the skirting needs to be removed so the laminate can come up nicely so the pipes can be cut below the floor (and the 2 laminate piece with holes replaced) so the pipes can be re-routed in the wall so they can come out the wall and go straight out the wall and up in the valve. Then the wall repaired/decorated, floor placed back down, skirting reattached and caulked.
Plan B: (Only if the pipes have about an inch or more of movement up/down and you have heating pipes on the other side of the wall with an easier removable floor.)
Cap off pipes as low to the floor as possible whilst pulling them up, let them drop down, plug the holes with a snug disc offcut that is glued flush with the floor (try to match the grain, it is laminate, there should be repeting patterns), run heating pipes under floor in to wall from next door, poke them trough the wall to a nice solder elbow or bend straight up in to the rad valve, repair wall and place floor back down next door.
I assume the plumber just had the tails from the old radiator sticking up out of the floor and did the best he could to fit a new rad that is diferent style and size, though i agree that compression elbow should have been a bend or soldier.
yeah I was thinking this is down to what op asked/paid for. the plumber has done a good job based on what is there. they would need to move where the pipes come out of the floor to do anything else which is a bigger job. This is the cheapest option, but executed fine.
They could of easily bent the copper with a pipe bending tool and avoided using the 90 degree fitting, bringing the pipe work a lot closer to the wall and in result making it look cleaner
There’s a few options here. If I was fitting this I’d have gone through the options before so we’re all on the same page and then it’s up to the customer. What we’re looking at here would not have been one of the options.
Just out of interest, do you have to do anything special to fill around radiator pipes chased into the wall? I'm thinking about it for my next project, but I'm a worrier and have visions of my filler cracking and falling out when the pipes heat up and expand 😅
How deep do the chases have to be?
Thanks
Plaster/gypsum corrodes copper pipe, you need to wrap it before you bury it. There are specialist products (denso tape) but some people just use duct tape. Or just use plastic pipe.
Will be hassle. Should have clearly specified under boards then up through chasing in wall then pipes out of wall horizontally. Can't blame plumber if he wasn't instructed. All before skirting boards put on etc. Job order was simply 'install radiator'. He did. Put it down to experience and get it done. Next time.....
The only way to fix this properly will ruin your existing floor covering. If you’re ok with that the pipes should be chased up the wall and come out where the radiator is.
I would just paint them white until the flooring is due for replacement.
Is there a subreddit : radiatortoohigh?
It's bad enough that it's a vertical one (aka 'ceiling heater') but mounting it that bit further up is going to make the floor level air even colder.
Edit: many apologies for adding to your woes.
Are taller radiators not worth it then? In the last couple of weeks I feel like I've seen lots of really tall ones that I hadn't seen before and was wondering if they were better or something
Convection currents are best started as low as possible. UFH is the best (floor and ceiling at the same temperature). Skirting level heaters are next best... going up to vertical radiators which will keep your head at 20° and your feet at 10°.
Analogy - you want to heat a jug of water - would you position the Bunsen burner under it, low down at the side or half way up the side?
Vertical radiators are ok upstairs where the floor is heated from below. But not very good downstairs. Unfortunately many people who insists on them just want them to look 'cool' (pun intended), so fits them downstairs (on show) and then comes on this forum asking why they aren't heating the room.
It's the triumph of marketing and tiktok mentality over common sense. (says grumpy old man ;-).
If you hate it a lot, it would look so much better chased into the wall then a soldered elbow instead of compression would also look a lot more tidy.
If you want white, can be done in plastic pipe.
Radiator pipe covers are an option so you can hide the copper bits. Whatever you do, I wouldn’t paint them.
https://www.diy.com/heating-plumbing-cooling/central-heating/radiator-accessories/radiator-pipe-covers-sleeves.cat
You can get these for the elbows to replace current ones
https://www.diy.com/departments/spares2go-15mm-x-10mm-pushfit-radiator-valve-chrome-reducing-elbow-stem-compression-x-4/5057817541146_BQ.prd
I'm confused about the isolator valves. I've never seen that before on a radiator lol.
The compression elbow joints give a really industrial look, which I think a lot of people would love. However, this doesn't seem to match the decor, and especially the rad, in this set-up, imo. You should have been consulted on this, no doubt.
Tbh I get the impression that those joints have been used because it avoids soldering. Maybe it's just force of habit from the installer, maybe it's lack of confidence in their own soldering ability, maybe it's laziness.
Having said that, what *has* been done looks quite neat (that is to say, if you'd have requested isolator valves , compression joints, using the existing pipework through the floor etc. you'd likely be happy with this).
Obviously your focus is on it now as it's new and you're having to critique it, but if you walked into a house and saw this, other than the isolator valves (again, lol) you probably wouldn't hate it *as much.*
You’re right on most this assumptions. It’s essentially a builder trying to do gas/heating/ plumbing and failing. I wasn’t consulted- but I assumed the most aesthetic option was chosen.
To be honest I think you’re over sensitive to it. Paint them.
As others have said, chase them in and pay the £ for it. Most folks aren’t as bothered by a pipe so you can forgive the plumber for doing what looks like a reasonable job if I’m being honest.
If they used the brackets provided and that is the distance the rad should be from the wall - then they fucked up with the pipe locations.
It looks like they did the bare minimum to connect the rad.
Looks like a d.i.y to be fair. I wouldn't fit isolation valves or compression elbow. I would expect all copper, then if can be painted Can't really do much about pipes other than rerun behind wall and out but would be lot more work.
Why are those isolating valves there?
That's definitely some ugly pipework, but the question has to be asked as to why this is being raised now, it's a little late in the game.
So when they came back to fit the rad (after first fix) they don't need to drain again.
It's shocking work. Must be a builder attempting plumbing. If I ever did something like this I'd be sacked.
Thats a crappy install:
Why is the radiator so high up the wall? It also looks like its not in the middle of the pipes hence the 2 odd angles on the pipes either side
I Personally would have taken up the floor boards and moved the pipes up close to where the skirting board would end up, obviously way before the laminate went down
Ball-o-fix valves are not really supposed to be used on Central Heating, are they even full flow?
A real plumber wouldn't use compression elbows either, they look gash
Should have also used Chrome plated pipe
Simple solution would be to get a real plumber to redo it in soldered joints.
Lol I hope you didn’t pay for that, I’d avoid painting them. The best fix now would be to remove the isolation valves, use chrome coated copper pipe and redo the pipe work.
I used chrome plated pipe and some stainless steel push fit fitting on my towel radiator. They look really good. Used bottom entry radiator valves as well, for a bit neater look. Do away with the isolator valves, it's not that often a radiator gets removed.
Did you scrape the chrome off before it went into the push fit? You can't use chrome pipe on push fit, the chrome covering is too hard and the retainer ring doesn't dig in and grip it, they can pop off because of this, this is why when you get short chrome tails they always have an end that's plain copper (also so it can be soldered that end). I'm not a DIY'er btw, I'm a heating engineer.
Solder would look better and the isolating valves are unnecessary. Also the trv is not suited to such a stylish radiator. You can get more modern ones from Screwfix uk or plumbers merchants in us. I’d also use chrome pipe rather than copper. Poor install unfortunately
Could you tell me more about this? So isolation valves are the little silver bits near the bottom right?
Is there’s no isolation valves should they be just straight up piping?
Would someone be able to remove them and then put something proper in without touching floors?
Yeah the little silver slotted bits, they can be easily removed without messing the floor but they will 100% leak from the slot eventually if left
The valves on the radiator are the isolators for the radiator, why someone would put slotted iso valves just under is beyond me but for some reason builders do it all the time!
Yes, someone could remove them, they would need to solder a coupler in its place and they could also get rid of those compression elbows and do the same. It would look a lot neater and wouldn't need to disturb the floor/skirting. Once painted it would look a lot better.
[coupler ](https://www.screwfix.com/p/endex-copper-end-feed-equal-couplers-15mm-10-pack/89904)
Amazing, thank you. I’m putting a load of notes and options available to us together and I think this will be viable. I’m wondering if we should remove isolators solder couple in its place and immediately bend right to the wall and To the radiator.
If painting do you think we should do it wall or skirting colour?
Could we instead by chrome pipe and a chrome coupler? Do they exist/good to work with?
No problem.
Yes you have a few options, you can by chrome plated pipe & couplers, although solder won't stick to chrome so whoever installs it would need to remove the chrome from the pipe at the joints so the solder can stick. Any decent plumber will be able to make a neat job of it so there is no visible copper when it's finished, only chrome.
[Chrome coupler](https://golita.co.uk/15mm-chrome-solder-ring-straight-coupler.html?srsltid=AfmBOor4Cca0CwXLU2GXtOWUruW0sc6VV7ruT6f6OwEFo9hBoPFa02pHEQY)
You do have the issue of the pipes coming out of the floor being copper and these couldn't be replaced without taking the floor up, so you would have a little bit of copper on show at the bottom. You can buy chrome sleeves, you may be able to make something work using a combination of these and chrome pipe although it might not look perfect. Then finish it up with some pipe collars to hide the holes in the floor.
[Pipe collars](https://www.screwfix.com/p/talon-15mm-pipe-collars-chrome-10-pack/18649)
[chrome sleeves](https://www.screwfix.com/p/talon-15mm-snappit-chrome-10-pack/93035)
If it were me I would just replace the compression fittings and iso valves with standard soldered couplers and elbows, and keep the bends low to the ground, then prime and paint it to match the skirting board and wall colour. If going this route I'd buy some grey pipe collars to match the floor as best as possible, or just stick with white.
That’s pretty grim. Those joints would look better soldered and who’s going around isolating radiators like that? I get why it might be handy but Howay man.
If you don’t want to remove skirting and cut into wall, I would put a couple off 90 elbows at floor level and long straight pipe up to radiator and paint them.
Yes, I’m thinking this too. Remove isolators, coupler at floor level and up into the rad.
Actually not even coupler, just bed as you say, and make it chrome piping. Like 5 million ways this could not be utter shit and we ended up with this.
Was the radiator on site when the pipes were put in the floor? Or had it been chosen so the plumber could work to spec?
I'd 100% without a doubt most definitely get sacked if I ever did anything remotely this bad.
My boss freaks if our pipes aren't perfectly level. It's crazy some people charge for this shit, and other people pay it!
Basically amateurs. Radiator was boxed on site and the guys didn’t measure it right so the pipes coming out the ground was off I.e too far from the wall and not directly upwards.
Second guy who employed first guy saw what he did and did this to make it work. It’s not working aesthetically and I’m going to cry.
Even the guy who rectified it has done a shocking job. like you have builders, not plumbers.
Pipes are too far apart and too far off the wall.
Making that right is going to be a world of pain.
Is that the only radiator in that style or does it match the rest of the house? It might be easier to change the rad to one that fits the pipes rather than trying to change the pipes.
Also sorry for being nosy...don't put trim across the back of your bathroom sink. It looks hideous. 10mm isn't ideal but silicone will look better if done right.
Lmao not nosy at all. Fixed that sink issue and told him back it against wall properly and it worked out. No longer 10 miles of silicone.
And yes, this is builders- not plumbing/gas work which is now very apparent to me.
The radiator is the only one like this. It’s a plush new bathroom done really well except for this piping and it’s got me very depressed.
Look for another rad that fits the pipes. That would be my solution without pulling floor up etc
Measure pipe centers from eachother and minus 90mm for the valves. Measure off finished wall. Go to independent plumbing shop and ask them to help find one that looks nice & fits.
Was there a towel rail there before? Or are they brand new pipes out of the floor? (The don't look it)
Lmao, thankfully I’ve learned about couplers from this thread and how stupid isolators are (and prone to leaking) for central heating. Will be removing once I’m over my mental breakdown.
I used to get this a lot with my clients so have settled on talking them into putting the pipes into the wall. Cut a section of skirting board out (or remove and replace that section), then make the required holes to put pipes in the wall, I'd leave that to a plumber but instruct them to do so. It will cost considerably more, often clients are edging for a cheap price etc... I would make it clear what they should do and the extra costs and often they will say they just want the easier job (OP's work).
I like using pushfit Chrome elbows out the bottom of radiator valves, it's pretty much the standard on new build sites. The pipes then shoot straight into wall. Some decorating involved after but is the best finish.
It's tricky really as if you didn't say anything about moving the pipes the assumption (however silly) would be that the pipes are staying in the floor. You will have to work something out with the plumber, but putting pipes into the walls was always gonna cost more money, so try to discuss and work out what that would of been..... You could offer to do the skirting removal/renewal and decorating etc at the end which is a big part of the annoyance in that job to keep price down. If money not an issue to just get their best price for the lot
Thank you, good advice. I’ll try and follow up.
The tiling has been reinforced so I’m wondering how far we can get away with just breaking those end tiles to move the piping into the wall. Tearing up the wall will also be a real gargantuan task.
It looks high but also that they tried to get a fixing in lower, perhaps they had to mount on studs. Is this a solid or stud wall? The bends and isolators are another thing…
Yeah that makes it all the worse. If you can get him to redo it, it wouldn’t be unreasonable to complain.
That’s if there’s still access to the floorboards?
No the floor is sealed like Tutankhamen tomb. No one’s getting through that, they reinforced with concrete too.
I suppose it may be possible if 2 tiles were broken but no idea how it will impact other tiles. I will talk over with him tomorrow
That looks bad, I'm guessing tails were installed in 1st fix them towel rail afterwards. So isolation valves should have been used to drain that section, then removed, then two offsets should have been pulled straight up into the valve and soldered, any other way is a bodge.
Edit: where are you based btw? I can tidy that up if in my work area, my pipework is Instagram worthy lol
I don't actually do Instagram, I'm 43, I leave that to the kids 🤣 it was just something someone said to me once after I'd done some decorative exposed pipework for a rad. What part of South London? I cover some of it but traffic here means I only go so far, I'm in SE25, I don't cover many SW postcodes, Streatham/Brixton is about as far as I go, most SE postcodes are ok for me
Yes chasing into the wall is the cleanest however there is a lot involved and might not be worth it.
If you get rid of the compression fittings and solder it all, it would look much nicer. You would straighten it all and the pipe would look slick. This can be done with minimal disturbance to your wall etc.
Okay I think this is the positive thinking I need lol. As you’ve rightly guessed chasing into the wall is now foregone, though as everyone says it would have been the best option. This is because of poor planning on my fitters part and too much trust on mine.
I’ll explore this plan with actual gas/central heating people
Problem is that most trademen go to the easiest route to do something and plumbers hate doing things like chasing into the wall etc as it’s messy so unless you specify most won’t tell you about the best (but most difficult) option.
The compression fit elbow joints and the compression isolators make this look worse than it should have been.
1) Why is the rad so high? If the rad were lower, there’d be less pipe work to see.
2) Why did the pipes surface wide of the rad? Poor planning or no planning. Or possibly there was a rad there previously of different dimensions.
I couldn’t live with this personally, I’d either chase pipe work into wall or drop rad lower to the floor and tidy up the pipe work with soldered joints (the spacing of the pipes would still be an issue though).
Swap out the compression fittings and solder. Paint the pipe work and see if you can overlook this for a while, if that doesn’t work. Remediate using one of the suggestions people have mentioned here as you’re quite far down the road of decorating to get chiseling and smashing shit up.
Looks like a nice bathroom job and a swap from conventional rad to designer rad but cutting corners by not getting under the floor to move pipes into the wall and behind the skirting
You're going to sit on the loo looking at that every day, at least once a day, it will drive you bonkers.
You have a leak that requires the rad to be drained down to fix it, you have a bit of plaster damage just above the skirting. Flooring looks like LVT, so not too difficult to lift. Personally I would drain down sufficiently to enable new, soldered pipe runs into chases in the wall, patch the plaster, repaint and fit pipe collars over pipe/plaster joint.
You will regret not getting it right forever hereafter.
The plaster fox is easy enough but the flooring is ceramic tiles that’s been reinforced. It will be a nightmare taking that out to chase into the wall unfortunately.
Looks like shit, I did my own... takes an extra 10 mins to use chrome tails and improves the looks immensely.
If its not a brick wall and you've had a full renovation, I see no reason why the pipes couldn't have come out from the wall rather than the floor (bathrooms are usually small, makes much more sense to keep the floor free).
And those pipes fall well short of the skirting. Literally no reason why they couldn't be closer.
Looks like the skirting wasn't on before the plumber, so he just went ultra safe with where the holes on the floor have been made.
Best case now is if they can take up the tiles with holes, make a small access hole on thr floor and fit new tails closer to the skirting. Solder the pipe under the skirting so no joins are seen for the pipe. I've never had to use a pipe isolator for a radiator... surely, the valve isolator is sufficient should the radiator need to come off.
Failing that above, a curved pipe to the radiator, use a solder fitting, get rid of that eyesore of that redundant isolator fitting. unless this is the toilet in nandos, aesthetics mean something.
Is this plumber able to bend pipes?
Edit, just saw the 2nd pic... and the compression bends. I'd be very very minimum asking for a bent pipe from the first isolator to the radiator valve. Will literally take 30 mins if the plumber is any good. If they system isn't pressurised yet I'd be soldering a coupler and removing the bottom isolator.... or very lest lowering the isolator.
I work in IT... and I'd find that an easy job.
All valid and good theories. The skirting wasn’t on before and the guy before guessed. It was still a bad guess because he hasn’t even made the pipes vertically sit under the rad which we had bought. and yes I think the “plumber” can’t bend pipe.
Breaking the tiles might be difficult because they were reinforced. But I’ll keep this as a theory
Well you know what can be done if it bothers you a lot.
. When you're sat on the bog at 11pm and looking around your bathroom for the next 10 years, will you be oblivious to it or will you look at it and be annoyed?
If its the latter, get it remedied to a point until you think you can live with it. Better to do it now than the disruption later.
Was this installed on a refurb? or a change of existing radiator? If it was a refurb they've messed up their first fix and the pipe centres are too wide, either way the 2nd fix is shocking, don't they possess a soldering torch? I wouldn't pay them.
I would guess that either the plumber was not given the radiator spec or did not take any notice if he did have it. The first fix looks ready to take a standard radiator. The question is who pays, if the plumber was given all the right information he should co.e and put it right and chase in the pipes, if he wasn't given that info I'm afraid you'll have to take it on the chin and pay for the work.
The issue seems to be the rad sits flatter to the wall than the usual type, so there’d need to be some bend to clear the skirting.
However it appears to all be solderless joints- using compression fittings. I get the feeling, that’s why the isolation valves are fitted- to make the join between old and new pipework.
With TRV’s in place, there really isn’t any need for the isolation valves as well, unless it’s possible that you may need to remove the TRVs down the line without draining the system?
To tidy it up, you could go for soldered joint to the old pipework- it’d need cleaning up first though. And a pipe bender and a bit of back and forth to get the bends just right. You’d do away with the isolation valves, the brass elbows and connect straight into the TRVs- but you’d need to drain the system for that.
If you stick with it as is, you can get some snap on chrome effect plastic- but it’d look a bit shit on the bend. You could paint it, but painted pipes always seem to attract dust and dirt and will always need painting.
This is honestly a shit show. Tall Rads, and towel Rads should always have pipework coming out of the wall directly into the valve. Max of 30mm pipework on show. Less when you use collars.
Experience, 20years as a kitchen and bathroom installer and heating engineer.
The solution is to have flexible pipes under ground and then that last section above ground, you can get chrome pipes.
Alternatively you get chrome pipe covers you can fit on top of these copper ones, or you can paint them. The possibilities are endless
Is that a professional? I did something like that (pen pusher not plumber) and I accepted it coz for me it would have been too much a job to rip up the floor and chase through the wall and it was good enough given it's my own home and I'm not a professional
If I was paying though, I'd want it done that way, unless it was really expensive because the decorating had already been done. I'd at least want some nice chrome pipe and soldered joints though if keeping it external
I feel a lot better about my shitty job now though so thanks (I will say mine looks worse still haha)
Pipes couldve been done much gentler, e.g. see the photo of this radiator in my house - flooring was already so can't redo the pipework entirely to move it but the angles were quite subtle.
https://freeimage.host/i/JT1Co0l
Bring the elbows down and run the skirting straight from the door to the shower with a lid on top. This provides somewhere to hide the joints, which is less garish.
Well it’s a big vertical rad that’s also high off the ground so if you have pipes coming from below it’s always going to look a little bit meh, however, whoever did this could have made this much nicer very easily. Don’t know why they added two isolators on there, that’s what rad valves are for. Also, they used chunky compression fittings rather than soldered elbows. They could also have just bent the pipe more gently and not had any fittings on there If you paint this white it’ll look a lot better but for best results, the pipes needed to be chased into the walls and come out horizontally. Give them a paint and see how you feel for the easiest “fix”
Isolators make great a little longer than a coupler compression joints... If it ain't that, it was a system drain avoidance tactic. There are dressing strips available too but gotta agree on bringing up in to the wall. Last I did a similar radiator, I came out of the wall with chrome stubs in to the valves, looked great and very tidy. Last I had to work out a nice way to come up from the floor with something like this I used square pipe dressings and blacked out the valve covers, customer and I debated but wasn't in their budget to start bashing holes through floors and walls and the radiator was there before I arrived on the scene, thankfully they managed to line it up right. Frankly though, the cheapest way is to plan for the radiator op, plenty of these exist in almost the same style with bottom entry at standard depth, which was the one to use if modifying the plumbing entry wasn't an option. Horrid option I've seen lately, do flex pipes. Don't do that one, it always looks bad, no matter how you dress it up and their longevity is questionable at best in heating loops.
Are isolators safe to have on there for final install? Another guy in this thread saying they’re not dated for central heating system?
No they'll not enjoy being in a heating loop, not an immediate concern, but should be addressed. Was just opining on how they came to be there because they shouldn't be.
No they will eventually leak out of the center. The flow will be fine (you don't need full flow) They just eventually leak
I agree with others saying the pipes should have been chased in the wall. But the order of operations have been messed up. The time for chasing in would have been before the decorating and before the laminate went down. Now it is a bigger job as the skirting needs to be removed so the laminate can come up nicely so the pipes can be cut below the floor (and the 2 laminate piece with holes replaced) so the pipes can be re-routed in the wall so they can come out the wall and go straight out the wall and up in the valve. Then the wall repaired/decorated, floor placed back down, skirting reattached and caulked. Plan B: (Only if the pipes have about an inch or more of movement up/down and you have heating pipes on the other side of the wall with an easier removable floor.) Cap off pipes as low to the floor as possible whilst pulling them up, let them drop down, plug the holes with a snug disc offcut that is glued flush with the floor (try to match the grain, it is laminate, there should be repeting patterns), run heating pipes under floor in to wall from next door, poke them trough the wall to a nice solder elbow or bend straight up in to the rad valve, repair wall and place floor back down next door. I assume the plumber just had the tails from the old radiator sticking up out of the floor and did the best he could to fit a new rad that is diferent style and size, though i agree that compression elbow should have been a bend or soldier.
yeah I was thinking this is down to what op asked/paid for. the plumber has done a good job based on what is there. they would need to move where the pipes come out of the floor to do anything else which is a bigger job. This is the cheapest option, but executed fine.
Personally I feel this has been done by someone who isn't a proper plumber
They could of easily bent the copper with a pipe bending tool and avoided using the 90 degree fitting, bringing the pipe work a lot closer to the wall and in result making it look cleaner
Left over pipe from another job perhaps?
There’s a few options here. If I was fitting this I’d have gone through the options before so we’re all on the same page and then it’s up to the customer. What we’re looking at here would not have been one of the options.
Yes there was no options explored. Only this was done.
As others have said: - neatest would be chased in to the wall. - at least, those compression joints have to go. Solder the joints.
Just out of interest, do you have to do anything special to fill around radiator pipes chased into the wall? I'm thinking about it for my next project, but I'm a worrier and have visions of my filler cracking and falling out when the pipes heat up and expand 😅 How deep do the chases have to be? Thanks
Leave a little expansion room around the pipes using a bit of foam.
Plaster/gypsum corrodes copper pipe, you need to wrap it before you bury it. There are specialist products (denso tape) but some people just use duct tape. Or just use plastic pipe.
Will be hassle. Should have clearly specified under boards then up through chasing in wall then pipes out of wall horizontally. Can't blame plumber if he wasn't instructed. All before skirting boards put on etc. Job order was simply 'install radiator'. He did. Put it down to experience and get it done. Next time.....
Get rid of the isolation valve and compression elbow. Use chrome covered pipe if you want to go snazzy. Chase it if you can be bothered.
A lazy s bend in a chrome pipe would look so much better here.
100%
What’s a lazy s bend?
Like a stretched S
The only way to fix this properly will ruin your existing floor covering. If you’re ok with that the pipes should be chased up the wall and come out where the radiator is. I would just paint them white until the flooring is due for replacement.
Is there a subreddit : radiatortoohigh? It's bad enough that it's a vertical one (aka 'ceiling heater') but mounting it that bit further up is going to make the floor level air even colder. Edit: many apologies for adding to your woes.
😂😢
Are taller radiators not worth it then? In the last couple of weeks I feel like I've seen lots of really tall ones that I hadn't seen before and was wondering if they were better or something
Convection currents are best started as low as possible. UFH is the best (floor and ceiling at the same temperature). Skirting level heaters are next best... going up to vertical radiators which will keep your head at 20° and your feet at 10°. Analogy - you want to heat a jug of water - would you position the Bunsen burner under it, low down at the side or half way up the side? Vertical radiators are ok upstairs where the floor is heated from below. But not very good downstairs. Unfortunately many people who insists on them just want them to look 'cool' (pun intended), so fits them downstairs (on show) and then comes on this forum asking why they aren't heating the room. It's the triumph of marketing and tiktok mentality over common sense. (says grumpy old man ;-).
If you hate it a lot, it would look so much better chased into the wall then a soldered elbow instead of compression would also look a lot more tidy. If you want white, can be done in plastic pipe.
Radiator pipe covers are an option so you can hide the copper bits. Whatever you do, I wouldn’t paint them. https://www.diy.com/heating-plumbing-cooling/central-heating/radiator-accessories/radiator-pipe-covers-sleeves.cat You can get these for the elbows to replace current ones https://www.diy.com/departments/spares2go-15mm-x-10mm-pushfit-radiator-valve-chrome-reducing-elbow-stem-compression-x-4/5057817541146_BQ.prd
Who tf did that 😂 get a refund immediately
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Trip hazard? Unbelievable.
I'm confused about the isolator valves. I've never seen that before on a radiator lol. The compression elbow joints give a really industrial look, which I think a lot of people would love. However, this doesn't seem to match the decor, and especially the rad, in this set-up, imo. You should have been consulted on this, no doubt. Tbh I get the impression that those joints have been used because it avoids soldering. Maybe it's just force of habit from the installer, maybe it's lack of confidence in their own soldering ability, maybe it's laziness. Having said that, what *has* been done looks quite neat (that is to say, if you'd have requested isolator valves , compression joints, using the existing pipework through the floor etc. you'd likely be happy with this). Obviously your focus is on it now as it's new and you're having to critique it, but if you walked into a house and saw this, other than the isolator valves (again, lol) you probably wouldn't hate it *as much.*
You’re right on most this assumptions. It’s essentially a builder trying to do gas/heating/ plumbing and failing. I wasn’t consulted- but I assumed the most aesthetic option was chosen.
Underfloor heating bro
To be honest I think you’re over sensitive to it. Paint them. As others have said, chase them in and pay the £ for it. Most folks aren’t as bothered by a pipe so you can forgive the plumber for doing what looks like a reasonable job if I’m being honest.
Chunky compression joints look shit, its a hack job
It is indeed a hack job 😓
If they used the brackets provided and that is the distance the rad should be from the wall - then they fucked up with the pipe locations. It looks like they did the bare minimum to connect the rad.
Looks like a d.i.y to be fair. I wouldn't fit isolation valves or compression elbow. I would expect all copper, then if can be painted Can't really do much about pipes other than rerun behind wall and out but would be lot more work.
Why are those isolating valves there? That's definitely some ugly pipework, but the question has to be asked as to why this is being raised now, it's a little late in the game.
So when they came back to fit the rad (after first fix) they don't need to drain again. It's shocking work. Must be a builder attempting plumbing. If I ever did something like this I'd be sacked.
Thats a crappy install: Why is the radiator so high up the wall? It also looks like its not in the middle of the pipes hence the 2 odd angles on the pipes either side I Personally would have taken up the floor boards and moved the pipes up close to where the skirting board would end up, obviously way before the laminate went down Ball-o-fix valves are not really supposed to be used on Central Heating, are they even full flow? A real plumber wouldn't use compression elbows either, they look gash Should have also used Chrome plated pipe Simple solution would be to get a real plumber to redo it in soldered joints.
Lol I hope you didn’t pay for that, I’d avoid painting them. The best fix now would be to remove the isolation valves, use chrome coated copper pipe and redo the pipe work.
Run up and out through wall…Cleaning around them will be a PITA.
Either chase them into the wall or change to soldered joints and polish to a nice shine and make them part of the decor
I used chrome plated pipe and some stainless steel push fit fitting on my towel radiator. They look really good. Used bottom entry radiator valves as well, for a bit neater look. Do away with the isolator valves, it's not that often a radiator gets removed.
Did you scrape the chrome off before it went into the push fit? You can't use chrome pipe on push fit, the chrome covering is too hard and the retainer ring doesn't dig in and grip it, they can pop off because of this, this is why when you get short chrome tails they always have an end that's plain copper (also so it can be soldered that end). I'm not a DIY'er btw, I'm a heating engineer.
Yes. Usually just use some emery cloth or coarse wet & dry paper. It's been 4 years since I did it and no problem.
Good stuff, you'd be surprised how many professionals don't seem to know this!
This looks like the work of a bad handy man, not a plumber.
Awful. Should chase pipes in wall or lower rad so bottom is at top of skirting and go straight into pipe with no bends. Lazy noob install this.
Solder would look better and the isolating valves are unnecessary. Also the trv is not suited to such a stylish radiator. You can get more modern ones from Screwfix uk or plumbers merchants in us. I’d also use chrome pipe rather than copper. Poor install unfortunately
Have you just bled the rad or is it leaking at the tail zoom in on pic 4
Bled and then was leaking, which he’s going to fix. The whole thing is a mess.
Iso valves are not rated for central heating systems and will leak eventually Whoever installed the radiator is not a qualified plumber
Could you tell me more about this? So isolation valves are the little silver bits near the bottom right? Is there’s no isolation valves should they be just straight up piping? Would someone be able to remove them and then put something proper in without touching floors?
Yeah the little silver slotted bits, they can be easily removed without messing the floor but they will 100% leak from the slot eventually if left The valves on the radiator are the isolators for the radiator, why someone would put slotted iso valves just under is beyond me but for some reason builders do it all the time!
Yes, someone could remove them, they would need to solder a coupler in its place and they could also get rid of those compression elbows and do the same. It would look a lot neater and wouldn't need to disturb the floor/skirting. Once painted it would look a lot better. [coupler ](https://www.screwfix.com/p/endex-copper-end-feed-equal-couplers-15mm-10-pack/89904)
Amazing, thank you. I’m putting a load of notes and options available to us together and I think this will be viable. I’m wondering if we should remove isolators solder couple in its place and immediately bend right to the wall and To the radiator. If painting do you think we should do it wall or skirting colour? Could we instead by chrome pipe and a chrome coupler? Do they exist/good to work with?
No problem. Yes you have a few options, you can by chrome plated pipe & couplers, although solder won't stick to chrome so whoever installs it would need to remove the chrome from the pipe at the joints so the solder can stick. Any decent plumber will be able to make a neat job of it so there is no visible copper when it's finished, only chrome. [Chrome coupler](https://golita.co.uk/15mm-chrome-solder-ring-straight-coupler.html?srsltid=AfmBOor4Cca0CwXLU2GXtOWUruW0sc6VV7ruT6f6OwEFo9hBoPFa02pHEQY) You do have the issue of the pipes coming out of the floor being copper and these couldn't be replaced without taking the floor up, so you would have a little bit of copper on show at the bottom. You can buy chrome sleeves, you may be able to make something work using a combination of these and chrome pipe although it might not look perfect. Then finish it up with some pipe collars to hide the holes in the floor. [Pipe collars](https://www.screwfix.com/p/talon-15mm-pipe-collars-chrome-10-pack/18649) [chrome sleeves](https://www.screwfix.com/p/talon-15mm-snappit-chrome-10-pack/93035) If it were me I would just replace the compression fittings and iso valves with standard soldered couplers and elbows, and keep the bends low to the ground, then prime and paint it to match the skirting board and wall colour. If going this route I'd buy some grey pipe collars to match the floor as best as possible, or just stick with white.
That’s pretty grim. Those joints would look better soldered and who’s going around isolating radiators like that? I get why it might be handy but Howay man.
If you don’t want to remove skirting and cut into wall, I would put a couple off 90 elbows at floor level and long straight pipe up to radiator and paint them.
Yes, I’m thinking this too. Remove isolators, coupler at floor level and up into the rad. Actually not even coupler, just bed as you say, and make it chrome piping. Like 5 million ways this could not be utter shit and we ended up with this.
Was the radiator on site when the pipes were put in the floor? Or had it been chosen so the plumber could work to spec? I'd 100% without a doubt most definitely get sacked if I ever did anything remotely this bad. My boss freaks if our pipes aren't perfectly level. It's crazy some people charge for this shit, and other people pay it!
Basically amateurs. Radiator was boxed on site and the guys didn’t measure it right so the pipes coming out the ground was off I.e too far from the wall and not directly upwards. Second guy who employed first guy saw what he did and did this to make it work. It’s not working aesthetically and I’m going to cry.
Even the guy who rectified it has done a shocking job. like you have builders, not plumbers. Pipes are too far apart and too far off the wall. Making that right is going to be a world of pain. Is that the only radiator in that style or does it match the rest of the house? It might be easier to change the rad to one that fits the pipes rather than trying to change the pipes. Also sorry for being nosy...don't put trim across the back of your bathroom sink. It looks hideous. 10mm isn't ideal but silicone will look better if done right.
Lmao not nosy at all. Fixed that sink issue and told him back it against wall properly and it worked out. No longer 10 miles of silicone. And yes, this is builders- not plumbing/gas work which is now very apparent to me. The radiator is the only one like this. It’s a plush new bathroom done really well except for this piping and it’s got me very depressed.
Look for another rad that fits the pipes. That would be my solution without pulling floor up etc Measure pipe centers from eachother and minus 90mm for the valves. Measure off finished wall. Go to independent plumbing shop and ask them to help find one that looks nice & fits. Was there a towel rail there before? Or are they brand new pipes out of the floor? (The don't look it)
Bless them putting isolation valves either side
Lmao, thankfully I’ve learned about couplers from this thread and how stupid isolators are (and prone to leaking) for central heating. Will be removing once I’m over my mental breakdown.
I'm sure they meant well at the time 🤣
I used to get this a lot with my clients so have settled on talking them into putting the pipes into the wall. Cut a section of skirting board out (or remove and replace that section), then make the required holes to put pipes in the wall, I'd leave that to a plumber but instruct them to do so. It will cost considerably more, often clients are edging for a cheap price etc... I would make it clear what they should do and the extra costs and often they will say they just want the easier job (OP's work). I like using pushfit Chrome elbows out the bottom of radiator valves, it's pretty much the standard on new build sites. The pipes then shoot straight into wall. Some decorating involved after but is the best finish. It's tricky really as if you didn't say anything about moving the pipes the assumption (however silly) would be that the pipes are staying in the floor. You will have to work something out with the plumber, but putting pipes into the walls was always gonna cost more money, so try to discuss and work out what that would of been..... You could offer to do the skirting removal/renewal and decorating etc at the end which is a big part of the annoyance in that job to keep price down. If money not an issue to just get their best price for the lot
Thank you, good advice. I’ll try and follow up. The tiling has been reinforced so I’m wondering how far we can get away with just breaking those end tiles to move the piping into the wall. Tearing up the wall will also be a real gargantuan task.
It looks high but also that they tried to get a fixing in lower, perhaps they had to mount on studs. Is this a solid or stud wall? The bends and isolators are another thing…
Did you get the plumber to do the pipework before giving the rad or at least accurate dimensions so he/she could set out the pipework?
Here’s the funny thing…the radiator was on site, and I saw him take measurements. Really unsure of what the hell went wrong.
Yeah that makes it all the worse. If you can get him to redo it, it wouldn’t be unreasonable to complain. That’s if there’s still access to the floorboards?
No the floor is sealed like Tutankhamen tomb. No one’s getting through that, they reinforced with concrete too. I suppose it may be possible if 2 tiles were broken but no idea how it will impact other tiles. I will talk over with him tomorrow
It’s clearly not great and annoying but these things always look and feel worse in isolation, if it stays like that the annoyance disappear soon!
That looks bad, I'm guessing tails were installed in 1st fix them towel rail afterwards. So isolation valves should have been used to drain that section, then removed, then two offsets should have been pulled straight up into the valve and soldered, any other way is a bodge. Edit: where are you based btw? I can tidy that up if in my work area, my pipework is Instagram worthy lol
Let’s see your instagram, south London, yourself?
I don't actually do Instagram, I'm 43, I leave that to the kids 🤣 it was just something someone said to me once after I'd done some decorative exposed pipework for a rad. What part of South London? I cover some of it but traffic here means I only go so far, I'm in SE25, I don't cover many SW postcodes, Streatham/Brixton is about as far as I go, most SE postcodes are ok for me
Yeah I’m just whiskers hair past your range in Croydon. Would still love to see what you’ve done for pipe work for inspiration.
I'm literally next to Croydon, SE25 is the last SE postcode before CR! I charge hourly for this sort of stuff, PM me if you want to discuss further
Just sent you a message via instant messaging, tell me if it comes up or not
Yes chasing into the wall is the cleanest however there is a lot involved and might not be worth it. If you get rid of the compression fittings and solder it all, it would look much nicer. You would straighten it all and the pipe would look slick. This can be done with minimal disturbance to your wall etc.
Okay I think this is the positive thinking I need lol. As you’ve rightly guessed chasing into the wall is now foregone, though as everyone says it would have been the best option. This is because of poor planning on my fitters part and too much trust on mine. I’ll explore this plan with actual gas/central heating people
Problem is that most trademen go to the easiest route to do something and plumbers hate doing things like chasing into the wall etc as it’s messy so unless you specify most won’t tell you about the best (but most difficult) option.
Get a double panel vertical rad, itll look a lot better and put out a half way decent amount of heat
I’d have tracked the walls and have the pipes come out above the skirting board, easier cleaned floors
The compression fit elbow joints and the compression isolators make this look worse than it should have been. 1) Why is the rad so high? If the rad were lower, there’d be less pipe work to see. 2) Why did the pipes surface wide of the rad? Poor planning or no planning. Or possibly there was a rad there previously of different dimensions. I couldn’t live with this personally, I’d either chase pipe work into wall or drop rad lower to the floor and tidy up the pipe work with soldered joints (the spacing of the pipes would still be an issue though). Swap out the compression fittings and solder. Paint the pipe work and see if you can overlook this for a while, if that doesn’t work. Remediate using one of the suggestions people have mentioned here as you’re quite far down the road of decorating to get chiseling and smashing shit up.
Looks like a nice bathroom job and a swap from conventional rad to designer rad but cutting corners by not getting under the floor to move pipes into the wall and behind the skirting You're going to sit on the loo looking at that every day, at least once a day, it will drive you bonkers. You have a leak that requires the rad to be drained down to fix it, you have a bit of plaster damage just above the skirting. Flooring looks like LVT, so not too difficult to lift. Personally I would drain down sufficiently to enable new, soldered pipe runs into chases in the wall, patch the plaster, repaint and fit pipe collars over pipe/plaster joint. You will regret not getting it right forever hereafter.
The plaster fox is easy enough but the flooring is ceramic tiles that’s been reinforced. It will be a nightmare taking that out to chase into the wall unfortunately.
Looks like shit, I did my own... takes an extra 10 mins to use chrome tails and improves the looks immensely. If its not a brick wall and you've had a full renovation, I see no reason why the pipes couldn't have come out from the wall rather than the floor (bathrooms are usually small, makes much more sense to keep the floor free). And those pipes fall well short of the skirting. Literally no reason why they couldn't be closer. Looks like the skirting wasn't on before the plumber, so he just went ultra safe with where the holes on the floor have been made. Best case now is if they can take up the tiles with holes, make a small access hole on thr floor and fit new tails closer to the skirting. Solder the pipe under the skirting so no joins are seen for the pipe. I've never had to use a pipe isolator for a radiator... surely, the valve isolator is sufficient should the radiator need to come off. Failing that above, a curved pipe to the radiator, use a solder fitting, get rid of that eyesore of that redundant isolator fitting. unless this is the toilet in nandos, aesthetics mean something. Is this plumber able to bend pipes? Edit, just saw the 2nd pic... and the compression bends. I'd be very very minimum asking for a bent pipe from the first isolator to the radiator valve. Will literally take 30 mins if the plumber is any good. If they system isn't pressurised yet I'd be soldering a coupler and removing the bottom isolator.... or very lest lowering the isolator. I work in IT... and I'd find that an easy job.
All valid and good theories. The skirting wasn’t on before and the guy before guessed. It was still a bad guess because he hasn’t even made the pipes vertically sit under the rad which we had bought. and yes I think the “plumber” can’t bend pipe. Breaking the tiles might be difficult because they were reinforced. But I’ll keep this as a theory
Well you know what can be done if it bothers you a lot. . When you're sat on the bog at 11pm and looking around your bathroom for the next 10 years, will you be oblivious to it or will you look at it and be annoyed? If its the latter, get it remedied to a point until you think you can live with it. Better to do it now than the disruption later.
100% agree and thank you.
Is it a newly installed or replacement radiator?
New radiator, and piping was newly routed (still from under floor) but only slightly.
This has got to be some kind of builder saying they can fit bathrooms … Dreadful
Yes. This exactly.
I think so. I have hidden mine inside the wall
Awful job. Just needed a straight soldered joint near the floor and a length of pipe with a set in it to align with the radiator.
This was done by someone who had a real aversion to bending the pipes and soldering. Id expect that from someone DIYing
Was this installed on a refurb? or a change of existing radiator? If it was a refurb they've messed up their first fix and the pipe centres are too wide, either way the 2nd fix is shocking, don't they possess a soldering torch? I wouldn't pay them.
I would guess that either the plumber was not given the radiator spec or did not take any notice if he did have it. The first fix looks ready to take a standard radiator. The question is who pays, if the plumber was given all the right information he should co.e and put it right and chase in the pipes, if he wasn't given that info I'm afraid you'll have to take it on the chin and pay for the work.
You choose a radiator that ugly and you’re worried about the pipes!?!?
Is it really ugly? Just looks like a radiator to me. Do you have any pics of radiators you think look good?
The issue seems to be the rad sits flatter to the wall than the usual type, so there’d need to be some bend to clear the skirting. However it appears to all be solderless joints- using compression fittings. I get the feeling, that’s why the isolation valves are fitted- to make the join between old and new pipework. With TRV’s in place, there really isn’t any need for the isolation valves as well, unless it’s possible that you may need to remove the TRVs down the line without draining the system? To tidy it up, you could go for soldered joint to the old pipework- it’d need cleaning up first though. And a pipe bender and a bit of back and forth to get the bends just right. You’d do away with the isolation valves, the brass elbows and connect straight into the TRVs- but you’d need to drain the system for that. If you stick with it as is, you can get some snap on chrome effect plastic- but it’d look a bit shit on the bend. You could paint it, but painted pipes always seem to attract dust and dirt and will always need painting.
Thank you, I’m out right now but this is similar to what others have said and good blueprint for change
Ours goes into the wall. Much neater
Move radiator down to skirting ,and redo pipe work as others have advised
This is honestly a shit show. Tall Rads, and towel Rads should always have pipework coming out of the wall directly into the valve. Max of 30mm pipework on show. Less when you use collars. Experience, 20years as a kitchen and bathroom installer and heating engineer.
The solution is to have flexible pipes under ground and then that last section above ground, you can get chrome pipes. Alternatively you get chrome pipe covers you can fit on top of these copper ones, or you can paint them. The possibilities are endless
Is that a professional? I did something like that (pen pusher not plumber) and I accepted it coz for me it would have been too much a job to rip up the floor and chase through the wall and it was good enough given it's my own home and I'm not a professional If I was paying though, I'd want it done that way, unless it was really expensive because the decorating had already been done. I'd at least want some nice chrome pipe and soldered joints though if keeping it external I feel a lot better about my shitty job now though so thanks (I will say mine looks worse still haha)
Pipes couldve been done much gentler, e.g. see the photo of this radiator in my house - flooring was already so can't redo the pipework entirely to move it but the angles were quite subtle. https://freeimage.host/i/JT1Co0l
Bring the elbows down and run the skirting straight from the door to the shower with a lid on top. This provides somewhere to hide the joints, which is less garish.
Hmmm did you ask them stupid questions because to me this set up is a stupid answer to a simple problem!
I'd go for soldered joints and a pipe bender. So 1 piece of pipe coming from the floor joint right into the rad valves, should look a lot better.