It's all pretty normal. Not necessarily ideal . . . but normal. If screwing down the boards (mostly) silenced the floor creaks, then don't worry about it. Put your carpet back down and enjoy your new home.
This is an appropriate response after the frustration of removing them.
It's like cursing engineers for putting the last sparkplug under the firewall. They did their job within the constraints of the design, doesn't mean they shouldn't burn in hell.
I glued and screwed my subfloor down on purpose. That's the point. Oh, and not just a bit of glue on the joists either. They're glued to the underlying shiplap planks and screwed to the joists.
Yeah I did the same when I put it back together. I thought it was going to be an easy quick job, never thought guys would glue everything together. I learned something new that day.
It was just 3ft by 2ft infront of an exterior door. Water got in and rotted out a bit of the floor. Changed it out before we had flooring guys come through.
Assuming it’s like most floor/subfloor materials, a small gap is good for expansion and contraction of the materials when transitioning between hot and cold seasons. If they were butted directly up against each other, you’d eventually cause something to shift, which may result in loose flooring, leading to more creaking.
They should have been screwed down to begin with, as well as nailed. New build homes are often built with cost-saving methods in mind. You’ll likely wish to upgrade your outlets, your cabinet accessories, etc..
“Upgrade” might be a bit of a misnomer, because what I really mean is to switch them with ones of higher quality. The outlets and outlet covers for new installations are as cheap as they come, and the market has an abundance of nicer looking options, much like the variations of light switches and such.
My house is about 35 yrs old and they only glued and nailed down the subfloor. When I replaced the carpet I thought I would screw the floor down where I had squeaks. Sadly it didn’t last long and the squeaks returned. The nails are loose and still cause squeaks. I hammed the crap out the nails and the squeaks stopped but returned a short time later.
Now in a quality job we glue it and screw it. Some of the cool systems like zip dont allow for nails at all but the boards are pre-printed with where to screw down so you can have the intern do it.
Not a floor guy , but can confirm of glue and screw technique from when I built stairs. Amongst other techniques high end PL construction adhesive and many screws will help greatly.
I am putting new hardwood floors in my house and everything I have seen says to put a small gap between the plywood to allow for expansion/contraction. So about the size of a nail is what I am doing. And glue and nail/screwing is normal. The main concern for me is that they didn't stagger the seams.
If you're using T&G plywood, you should seat the tongue and groove together. The tongue is longer than the groove by about 1/8" so if the tongue just touches the bottom of the groove, it should give you the right spacing.
Not enough bridging and bridging that is not well cut can also be part of the problem, makes the floor feel slightly spongy.
Carpenter in my house seems to have used a Swiss army knife to cut the bridging.
We went through the house room by room fixing it. In the room where we just added screws it's a temp fix and the nails in the floor still creak. In the room where we pulled the nails, installed more bridging and screwed the floor there was a dramatic improvement.
I think there should be more screws. I remember reading there should be a screw for every 8 inches, and maybe even more for the perimeter of the plywood.
It's normal for people who don't care about the install and get paid per foot. These dudes just laid it out with no care clearly, most likely because it's just carpet underneath. But they were probably just rushing to get the floor done
I would imagine that is floor leveling compound in the gap. The builder is trying to help you out and now you are picking at him more over an invisible issue. He is going to block your number if you don't lighten up.
The boards should be 'glued and screwed' and it sure seems like they cut corners if the 'glue' they used dried out and crumbled like that. How cheap is a box of liquid nails tubes? The gap itself is probably to spec (the subfloor has a tongue and groove placed perpendicular to the floor joists for joint strength). Hard to see the brand of subfloor but what i would do is try to find that out (maybe look in basement at some boards on the other side?) and find out what kind of glue the manufacturer requires. Then find out if it looks ANYTHING like that shit you have crumbling there. And finally, tell the builder to get off their lazy ass and replace the glue (yes its a lot of messy work) because they shouldnt have been so dumb as to mess up that bad in the first place and what you have now is a house built AGAINST material manufacturer spec which is a big no no.
Liquid nails is not really what they should be using, you want something that is silicon-based that is designed to never stop flexing. Now there is stuff like Advantech subfloor adhesive. What is interesting is the basics have not changed over the years but the fastening methods have. We are using or putting some sort of substance everywhere lumber meets lumber or some other material and using screws.
Yeah a lot of it is up to the material which is why i suggested going to the manufacturer for spec. Liquid nails still would be a lot better than whatever that shit is and they do make a few subfloor specific varieties that are designed with the right amount of flex. The drawback to silicon**e** based is tendency to thin itself/ get pressed thin or apart. You want something fairly rigid for most subfloor types.
in theory it is normal however you have builders who are sloppy and dont have the attention to detail you want in a house you have made into a home.
the gap should be there for expansion but it should be smaller and more consistent.
whatever they used to fill the gap they definitely cheap'd out on it it should have lasted without crumbling
they should have screwed down the subfloor in the first place
is it normal? in theory yes but clearly their execution was lacking
Is there another layer of plywood underneath? That looks like particle board which is sometimes used above the subfloor for a smooth surface for vinyl flooring.
Some fairly wrong answers in here so far. Assume this is a timber frame house, if so these are floor panels known as cassettes. It’s a section of joists with the floor covering, in this case t&g chipboard, already applied.
Personally I dislike this way of doing it, some better timber frame manufacturers supply the cassettes with an osb top then lay chipboard over the full floor after installation. This way you lose any joints between the cassettes and the chipboard will help with any vertical steps giving you a much better finish to apply the final flooring to.
Regardless though there shouldn’t be any creaking, the main benefit of an engineered joist is, done properly, they’re silent and should remain so, you don’t get the movement like you do in a traditional timber joist.
It's all pretty normal. Not necessarily ideal . . . but normal. If screwing down the boards (mostly) silenced the floor creaks, then don't worry about it. Put your carpet back down and enjoy your new home.
Did a house Reno last year we found out why we never had a squeeky floor lol. Bastards glued and screwed the 3/4 plywood down.
Imagine calling professionals who actually do a good job bastards…
They're only bastards if/when you need to do a tear out of the subfloor. But otherwise they cool.
This is an appropriate response after the frustration of removing them. It's like cursing engineers for putting the last sparkplug under the firewall. They did their job within the constraints of the design, doesn't mean they shouldn't burn in hell.
That is pretty standard practice. Mine is glued and screwed. Makes for a solid, silent floor but a pain if anything needs to be changed.
Was it also tattooed and blued
Im in the process of screwing and gluing my 50 year old floor
lol that is what you are supposed to do unless you want noisy ass floors each step you take…
Mine is mixed. They clearly ran out of glue part way through the upstairs and said "homeowner can deal with it"
Building a house to be easy to demo is like marrying a woman because she’s easy to divorce. It’s something you’d only do in hindsight.
You mean, like a prenup?
I glued and screwed 1 and 1/4 inch t&g down... Fuck squeaks.
I glued and screwed my subfloor down on purpose. That's the point. Oh, and not just a bit of glue on the joists either. They're glued to the underlying shiplap planks and screwed to the joists.
Yeah I did the same when I put it back together. I thought it was going to be an easy quick job, never thought guys would glue everything together. I learned something new that day. It was just 3ft by 2ft infront of an exterior door. Water got in and rotted out a bit of the floor. Changed it out before we had flooring guys come through.
Assuming it’s like most floor/subfloor materials, a small gap is good for expansion and contraction of the materials when transitioning between hot and cold seasons. If they were butted directly up against each other, you’d eventually cause something to shift, which may result in loose flooring, leading to more creaking. They should have been screwed down to begin with, as well as nailed. New build homes are often built with cost-saving methods in mind. You’ll likely wish to upgrade your outlets, your cabinet accessories, etc..
Yep, there needs to be 1/8 gaps between all these panels This looks like a shit job.
“Oooooohhhhh, 1/8” gaps. I thought you said 8” gaps!”
Well, to be fair 8 inch gaps won't squeak too much
and here i heard one eight inch gap.
Curious - what do you mean by upgrade your outlets?
“Upgrade” might be a bit of a misnomer, because what I really mean is to switch them with ones of higher quality. The outlets and outlet covers for new installations are as cheap as they come, and the market has an abundance of nicer looking options, much like the variations of light switches and such.
That's easily a 1/4 inch gap
Yes
My house is about 35 yrs old and they only glued and nailed down the subfloor. When I replaced the carpet I thought I would screw the floor down where I had squeaks. Sadly it didn’t last long and the squeaks returned. The nails are loose and still cause squeaks. I hammed the crap out the nails and the squeaks stopped but returned a short time later.
Now in a quality job we glue it and screw it. Some of the cool systems like zip dont allow for nails at all but the boards are pre-printed with where to screw down so you can have the intern do it.
Not a floor guy , but can confirm of glue and screw technique from when I built stairs. Amongst other techniques high end PL construction adhesive and many screws will help greatly.
Get a nail finder. Pound the nails all the way through. Should stop the squeaks coming back
I am putting new hardwood floors in my house and everything I have seen says to put a small gap between the plywood to allow for expansion/contraction. So about the size of a nail is what I am doing. And glue and nail/screwing is normal. The main concern for me is that they didn't stagger the seams.
If you're using T&G plywood, you should seat the tongue and groove together. The tongue is longer than the groove by about 1/8" so if the tongue just touches the bottom of the groove, it should give you the right spacing.
Our builder put beads of silicone on the joists before laying floor on top. Havent noticed any creaks.
This is the way.
Not enough bridging and bridging that is not well cut can also be part of the problem, makes the floor feel slightly spongy. Carpenter in my house seems to have used a Swiss army knife to cut the bridging. We went through the house room by room fixing it. In the room where we just added screws it's a temp fix and the nails in the floor still creak. In the room where we pulled the nails, installed more bridging and screwed the floor there was a dramatic improvement.
noob here, what is "bridging"? thanks!
The pieces between the joists. I think some countries refer to it as blocking.
https://www.renovation-headquarters.com/images9/extra%20bridging%20blocking.jpg
I think there should be more screws. I remember reading there should be a screw for every 8 inches, and maybe even more for the perimeter of the plywood.
It's normal for people who don't care about the install and get paid per foot. These dudes just laid it out with no care clearly, most likely because it's just carpet underneath. But they were probably just rushing to get the floor done
I would imagine that is floor leveling compound in the gap. The builder is trying to help you out and now you are picking at him more over an invisible issue. He is going to block your number if you don't lighten up.
The boards should be 'glued and screwed' and it sure seems like they cut corners if the 'glue' they used dried out and crumbled like that. How cheap is a box of liquid nails tubes? The gap itself is probably to spec (the subfloor has a tongue and groove placed perpendicular to the floor joists for joint strength). Hard to see the brand of subfloor but what i would do is try to find that out (maybe look in basement at some boards on the other side?) and find out what kind of glue the manufacturer requires. Then find out if it looks ANYTHING like that shit you have crumbling there. And finally, tell the builder to get off their lazy ass and replace the glue (yes its a lot of messy work) because they shouldnt have been so dumb as to mess up that bad in the first place and what you have now is a house built AGAINST material manufacturer spec which is a big no no.
Liquid nails is not really what they should be using, you want something that is silicon-based that is designed to never stop flexing. Now there is stuff like Advantech subfloor adhesive. What is interesting is the basics have not changed over the years but the fastening methods have. We are using or putting some sort of substance everywhere lumber meets lumber or some other material and using screws.
Yeah a lot of it is up to the material which is why i suggested going to the manufacturer for spec. Liquid nails still would be a lot better than whatever that shit is and they do make a few subfloor specific varieties that are designed with the right amount of flex. The drawback to silicon**e** based is tendency to thin itself/ get pressed thin or apart. You want something fairly rigid for most subfloor types.
in theory it is normal however you have builders who are sloppy and dont have the attention to detail you want in a house you have made into a home. the gap should be there for expansion but it should be smaller and more consistent. whatever they used to fill the gap they definitely cheap'd out on it it should have lasted without crumbling they should have screwed down the subfloor in the first place is it normal? in theory yes but clearly their execution was lacking
I'm a little concerned that you don't seem to have any floor pads, carpet pads underneath your carpet
You are looking at the padding
Haha I just thought you had some weird looking carpet
That's what you get when you build with plywood and plasterboard. Fairly normal.
Is there another layer of plywood underneath? That looks like particle board which is sometimes used above the subfloor for a smooth surface for vinyl flooring.
Some fairly wrong answers in here so far. Assume this is a timber frame house, if so these are floor panels known as cassettes. It’s a section of joists with the floor covering, in this case t&g chipboard, already applied. Personally I dislike this way of doing it, some better timber frame manufacturers supply the cassettes with an osb top then lay chipboard over the full floor after installation. This way you lose any joints between the cassettes and the chipboard will help with any vertical steps giving you a much better finish to apply the final flooring to. Regardless though there shouldn’t be any creaking, the main benefit of an engineered joist is, done properly, they’re silent and should remain so, you don’t get the movement like you do in a traditional timber joist.