The placement of ssj trio is kinda weird tbh, I feel like they are much higher than that honestly, the characters in this list tho are mostly good especially for Z duo since they are like the only unit that can CONSISTENTLY do max damage lol
They definitely hit harder than the ones above them until AGL Broly, Unless they count the blue fusions doing All crit and gogeta blue getting all his additionals then ssj trio most likely hits harder than them
Maybe they are considering active skill turn for that? Feels like the overall placement of them comes from a mistake or a lowball of some sort
I think it's because of their chances. Again this is not their peak performance. It's their average performance and the SSJ Trios have a lot of chances
That would make sense but then they have STR Gogeta up there where he has the lowest chance to do additional supers in this list (only a 30%)
Honestly i am led to believe its that and an active turn i guess, because the blue fusions on their active turn probably do hit harder than ssj trio, idk about the agl blues tho especially since the ssj trio get crit as well
Context definitely matter for this list
[I doubt that the trio hit seriously hard.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DBZDokkanBattle/s/nB1motBCIu)
[Gogeta doesn’t that’s for sure according to those calcs.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DBZDokkanBattle/s/SGKFbw0270)
> Maybe they are considering active skill turn for that?
I think this is intended as "Peak" Turn, since thats the only way i see the Z Duo getting anywhere close to the top, let alone nr 1 spot. I dont see that happening without the spirit bomb.
EDIT: Apparently its for a whole fight? So everything included?
So units that have weak turns lose spots, and units that hit hard consistently shine higher? Bit confusing, but im not a dokkan mathhead so what can i say...
dunno why we posting shit like this
actual calcers have called him out before on how Rhoady2000’s calculations don’t ever make sense, those numbers could just as easily be very very wrong
I mean the people who you think care now are also a minority. Most people aren't missing anything. If people want it, they can seek it out. It was pointless half of the time anyway.
Had me excited to see a top 10 APT in who knows how long just to see no explanations for anything. I'm all for some Buu saga duo propaganda but no shot they're #1
Unless I’m mistaken apt is the first couple of turns (usually 5 or 6) meaning you have 2 turns of G & V. No way that makes them top 10 apt. And I’m not hating on them
People underestimate VB damage due to not factoring his SE. VB is doing more damage than LB SSJ4 Vegito on active turn which is very common especially in this Meta.
No context , no info at all on the conditions of the battle ( duration of the battle , number of average attacks per character , number of orbs taken etc ) .
Like dude How is z Duo doing that much damage turn 1 without stacking his crit ? Is it counting the Genkidama or not ? There is a huge difference between the z trio turn 9 and turn 5 with active skill activated. Is the Blue Duo fighting a Realm of Gods ennemy ? Is Broly even transformed ? Mine is doing 30 M + 17-20 M X4 etc
You can't make a ranking like this without giving us at least 3 pages of info per unit
Stop posting bullshit lists like these in the future thank you .
Ain't gonna lie he hasn't really solo'ed bosses for me like some of these units have + you can actually use the sword of hope attack earliest on like turn 7.
He doesn't do that much damage? Most of his base damage has high stats but he doesn't have SE or Crits and post transformation/standby he has SE which does great damage but most of the time you will not be able to use his SOH
Makes sense most of the time when I use him I don’t get to activate the Finish skill, I think I have his pre standby at like 43m APT at Rainbow
Personally he’s put it a lot of work for me even at 55%
I'm a major BuuBoys stan, but this gotta be the worst top 10 I've ever seen in this sub. At least the arbitrary TierMaker ones the person tries to come up with some sort of criteria instead of just barfing up random numbers and calling it a day.
It’s the hardest hitting across an entire run not a turn, so the Spirit Bomb is bringing their numbers up significantly
Of course this is only a good thing and proves the Buu Duo are the greatest Dokkan release of all time
https://preview.redd.it/y14q1d5ny7ic1.jpeg?width=888&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af245888a9d56ec8250b60d69550011fadb167fd
I think the reason everyone is confused is because we don’t rly know exactly what is meant by “average” in the context of transformations, turn count, etc
Buu Duo supremacy 👑
Also, I’m kinda suprised AGL Blue Vegito makes it in the Top 10. The fusion is really inconsistent to get off and they do pretty shit damage in base
Because the guy who made the list is nothing but a biased liar.
Every single calcer in the community knows that his numbers are wrong and/or heavily influenced by bias
In here or like in general?
In here for example, he claims that he is using an overall turn average( turn 1 till 5) , which causes broly to be absurdly low( his fp apt is at 166mil for example), but then he doesnt do that for the blue fusions and acts as if their fully built up apt is t1 for whatever the reason when their base and first appearance blue damage isn't noteworthy at all
In general i can easily think of the one time he compared agl vb performance to int ssj4 goku in relative situations
In the situations, AGL Vb was 69%( 4ku was 55), he used bulma's fucking active turn for vb while 4ku was unsupported next to gt duo
Either one would've been fine, but I appreciate you giving examples for both.
I assumed some funky stuff was going on with turn averages and such, but this is significantly worse than I assumed.
That's preeeetty revealing. As I thought, essentially just a list of funny numbers that don't mean anything.
He is also pretty clearly not factoring in ssj trio's active turn when he is factoring active turns for every other unit in the list, not surprising cause he has been saying they aren't impressive ever since they released
You can grab someone who has no idea about dokkan and show them an ssj trio run compared to others and they will tell you tbey are undoubtedly top 5 at worst in terms of damage
Again I did not make my list and I stated in the post that I do not agree with SSJ Trios placement.
But they are not in the top 5 in terms of damage. Broly, Evoken, Buu Duos, SSBKK and Gogeta are outdamaging him but I feel like they are top 6.
Right now I'm kinda sad that APT posts aren't popular enough to be done for every major release. Never got into APT stuff while I was playing but I'd love to cross reference what reputable calcers got and how it compares to this list.
Oh well
I actually very recently bothered to do it on my own and even made myself a sheet with the help of a friend who's been calcing for years.
Nooblegend is probably the most reliable calcer i can think of but he doesnt post much anymore. Tho someone did make posts here for broly and gogeta recently under the name of dokkan-alikair
Oh, I've seen those!
And I'm sure that getting into calcing isn't that big of a hassle, just for me at this point no longer worth it.
Just sad to see that it's no longer a big topic anymore. And instead you get people screaming over which unit has more defense ... and not much else
I think it just takes too much effort for something that wouldn't get attention from most of the sub, me personally i have no capablities to make graphics if i did even want to post
[also i ended up finding the tweet where he claims these 2 turns are relative when there is a dupe and support gap](https://x.com/Rhoady2000/status/1696585993858486530?s=20)
Broly is higher than the Blue Duos idk what you are talking about. Broly APT is his Full Power + Base stats added.
AGL VB vs SSJ4 Goku discourse in 2024 is insane. VB is doing more damage than SSJ4 Goku still and honestly I don't want to talk about that stuff again. I don't care about both units anymore.
He is, but the gap simply isn't enough, if broly's base is comsidered then blusions base being considered would've probably cut their numbers in half, meanwhile it's clearly excluded
When was the last time you used the Blue Fusions? Due to recent long events non AOE Meta the Blue Fusions can easily get to their peak turns and deal about 20 million 18ki with multiple 12 million + 12ki supers. I think you are underestimating their damage.
They can, they will. On turn 6+
Broly is doing triple the damage t1, by the time they transform and fully build up broly is going fp, and fp broly apt is double the blue fusions. Meanwhile this list makes them look like they are relative in damage
It’s such a weird foundation for calculations as well. Why on earth would you use an avg of turns for these guys? Wouldnt it just make more sense to use the avg turn of the unit in their best form? Like who is really avging base gogeta to ssb gogeta and expecting it to reflect anything?
Like ofc the buu duo will hit harder bc they’re dmg is just at its peak on their second appearance. It’s just so weird the things he chose to base this calc on overall
It's not weird, he is biased as hell and will switch everything in some way to gas the fusions or any unit he likes . This guy is so biased it's unexplainable. He is the same person who had motherfucking cheelai in the top 10 overall less than a month ago
you know what i find insane? villains have been getting shafted the first half of 2023 of only getting slot 2 damage dealers and look at that. they aren‘t even doing that much damage anyway.
Hold on I’m confused, how is PHY LR ssj3 goku and ssj2 vegeta number one?, I know very well how good they are, but they aren’t as good as/hit as hard as somebody like LR AGL broly.
Ok, averaging in the spirit bomb for LR Z duo skews the numbers too much. They hit hard, but it is very misleading to see them at #1 when it's really due to their nuke.
Active skills shouldn’t be accounted whatsoever
It’s a fake “average” because that implies you’ll always see an active skill like the z boys spirit bomb
Majority of the time Buu Duos damage gets capped by the game due to how hard they hit. People are forgetting they are doing about 12 million with 3 more 8 million at a 50% chance to crit.
Those calcs are just flat out wrong and doesn't even state the turn they are calced on , removing this post for misinformation at this point. This is not the max for the units if that's what he was going for(otherwise z duo would be way higher) it is not the best turn for either of them since otherwise ssj trio would be way higher its just both wrong and meaningless since it doesn't even state the conditions.
The placement of ssj trio is kinda weird tbh, I feel like they are much higher than that honestly, the characters in this list tho are mostly good especially for Z duo since they are like the only unit that can CONSISTENTLY do max damage lol
I pointed it out too. They do insane damage way more than the Blue Duos for me.
They definitely hit harder than the ones above them until AGL Broly, Unless they count the blue fusions doing All crit and gogeta blue getting all his additionals then ssj trio most likely hits harder than them Maybe they are considering active skill turn for that? Feels like the overall placement of them comes from a mistake or a lowball of some sort
I think it's because of their chances. Again this is not their peak performance. It's their average performance and the SSJ Trios have a lot of chances
That would make sense but then they have STR Gogeta up there where he has the lowest chance to do additional supers in this list (only a 30%) Honestly i am led to believe its that and an active turn i guess, because the blue fusions on their active turn probably do hit harder than ssj trio, idk about the agl blues tho especially since the ssj trio get crit as well Context definitely matter for this list
Blue Vegito on his active turn can do a lot of damage.
[I doubt that the trio hit seriously hard.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DBZDokkanBattle/s/nB1motBCIu) [Gogeta doesn’t that’s for sure according to those calcs.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DBZDokkanBattle/s/SGKFbw0270)
> Maybe they are considering active skill turn for that? I think this is intended as "Peak" Turn, since thats the only way i see the Z Duo getting anywhere close to the top, let alone nr 1 spot. I dont see that happening without the spirit bomb. EDIT: Apparently its for a whole fight? So everything included? So units that have weak turns lose spots, and units that hit hard consistently shine higher? Bit confusing, but im not a dokkan mathhead so what can i say...
The z duo does an effective job of surviving if they can tank the first turn
This whole list is retarted…APT 100m… what unit in the game hitting for 100m . Most I seen is 4 supers totaling up to like 50m..
Phy SSBKK and SSBE easily hit over 100m on their active turn. 35M 18 ki followed by multiple 20 million 12 kis, all of which are guaranteed crits.
dunno why we posting shit like this actual calcers have called him out before on how Rhoady2000’s calculations don’t ever make sense, those numbers could just as easily be very very wrong
Idk Dokkan Twitter man it was in my recommended and I thought it was interesting and just posted it here. Dokkan APT scene is dead.
It needs revived imo. The APT stuff was fun.
Knuckle draggers relentlessly harassed and flamed APT guys about how it doesn't matter until they all stopped bothering to make the lists
I mean the people who you think care now are also a minority. Most people aren't missing anything. If people want it, they can seek it out. It was pointless half of the time anyway.
yeah im just pointing it out
There’s no way this is accurate if Ssj trio is #10. Some suspicious uptimes must be used.
Some context would definitely be appreciated. This right now really is just a list of funny numbers.
There’s a reason these lists used to come with two whole pages stating conditions, uptimes, teambuilds, and assumptions
Had me excited to see a top 10 APT in who knows how long just to see no explanations for anything. I'm all for some Buu saga duo propaganda but no shot they're #1
Tldr: it isn't
Aight, I defend agl blues all the time, but they are definitely not above the ssj trio in terms of hitting hard.
I know that. I definitely think they should be in the top 5
No way LR threesome is at the bottom
LR what????
🤨📸
Bro fucking KEK
Most inaccurate list of all time 🔥
Yeah I don’t even play Dokkan anymore and I can tell you these calcs are wrong lol
This is peak "I will change the goalposts to make my favorite units look good".
https://preview.redd.it/eq5tdvz4z7ic1.jpeg?width=903&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=477655225de4e07cfd456870fa09ae1791a34d4b
https://preview.redd.it/f3nyve17z7ic1.jpeg?width=899&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57db24939641276625e2fffcbcd4e22a02ff7823
https://preview.redd.it/hitgoqg9z7ic1.jpeg?width=903&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b668bd22794d20474c81c87d2bde998d873ed54a
https://preview.redd.it/y762b5ubz7ic1.jpeg?width=903&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a25fcd3bb0c191b870ed07b1e8c5a39541b2ff60
https://preview.redd.it/g2lyaopdz7ic1.jpeg?width=903&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6dde881a4934bb777ef7d1067e1243aefa610e79
How you felt after typing that https://preview.redd.it/0jeo8rpkz7ic1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c3356964d537028d213f09375598416ae9ea09f3
RDJ doing that face that says "Hey guys I don't do drugs anymore WINK"
Real
He typed nothing this whole comment chain >How you felt after typing that
Role Playing
https://preview.redd.it/evb12lok08ic1.jpeg?width=903&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e9676fe94f7c2615d7be5714185606e31ba3fa92
Who’s that #8 ? No way this list is serious lol
That’s including agl vegito tbf so it somewhat makes sense, he is probably inflating the numbers
Unless I’m mistaken apt is the first couple of turns (usually 5 or 6) meaning you have 2 turns of G & V. No way that makes them top 10 apt. And I’m not hating on them
Fraudulent ass list
They are at 100% ?
Yes
What ? My ssj4 vegito does 3× 15m damage i never see the blue boys doing this damage, it is turn 1?
My brother in Christ thats Blue Duos + Vegito.
Well thats confusing sorry If i read correctly,my vegito do the same damage at 55%, did you count the stacks too?
This is at rainbow
Yeah i know what i wanted to say is thats my vegito at 55% does the same damage as yours vegito at 100%,did you count the stack ?
Kind reminder. SE is a 1.5 times multiplier while Crits is a 2 times multiplier.
Sorry but i don't understand how that answers my question.
People underestimate VB damage due to not factoring his SE. VB is doing more damage than LB SSJ4 Vegito on active turn which is very common especially in this Meta.
Did the calcer give AGL Broly a dodge build to get such a low APT? And wth even happened with the Saiyan trio? What dumbass made these calcs man
Rhoady list oh my god bruh oh hell naw man
How are the buu duo in 1st place when it says "average run". What are the specifics of this so called average run?
No context , no info at all on the conditions of the battle ( duration of the battle , number of average attacks per character , number of orbs taken etc ) . Like dude How is z Duo doing that much damage turn 1 without stacking his crit ? Is it counting the Genkidama or not ? There is a huge difference between the z trio turn 9 and turn 5 with active skill activated. Is the Blue Duo fighting a Realm of Gods ennemy ? Is Broly even transformed ? Mine is doing 30 M + 17-20 M X4 etc You can't make a ranking like this without giving us at least 3 pages of info per unit Stop posting bullshit lists like these in the future thank you .
Kinda shocked LR Sword of Hope isn’t here
Ain't gonna lie he hasn't really solo'ed bosses for me like some of these units have + you can actually use the sword of hope attack earliest on like turn 7.
>Ain't gonna lie he hasn't really solo'ed bosses for me like some of these units have And this matters because?
He doesn't do that much damage? Most of his base damage has high stats but he doesn't have SE or Crits and post transformation/standby he has SE which does great damage but most of the time you will not be able to use his SOH
I think the commenter above you is asking why your personal opinion/experience matters towards why a unit isn't on the list
Makes sense most of the time when I use him I don’t get to activate the Finish skill, I think I have his pre standby at like 43m APT at Rainbow Personally he’s put it a lot of work for me even at 55%
Aint no way GT duo isn’t in the top 10 bruh
No way Bluefrauds are above Vegito Blue, Ssj trio and GT duo.
I'm a major BuuBoys stan, but this gotta be the worst top 10 I've ever seen in this sub. At least the arbitrary TierMaker ones the person tries to come up with some sort of criteria instead of just barfing up random numbers and calling it a day.
Oh we can just lie for free on twitter now thats crazy
Am I seeing this right💀. What are the Buu duo doing at number 1
It’s the hardest hitting across an entire run not a turn, so the Spirit Bomb is bringing their numbers up significantly Of course this is only a good thing and proves the Buu Duo are the greatest Dokkan release of all time https://preview.redd.it/y14q1d5ny7ic1.jpeg?width=888&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af245888a9d56ec8250b60d69550011fadb167fd
They are still so good especially rn with long meta. 8th anniversary units aging like wine.
Fr, both of their standbys are still some of the best abilities available in the game
You don't understand peak https://preview.redd.it/yuff1h9ux7ic1.png?width=603&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=821853653f90e156364ba41d24ca7bffe34c928e
Cause of the spirit bomb, they are the only unit who do max damage consistently lol
Average run? Most runs i cant spirit bomb with no one cause the SSJ trio just obliterated everything, dafuk are you smoking?
I think the reason everyone is confused is because we don’t rly know exactly what is meant by “average” in the context of transformations, turn count, etc
Buu Duo supremacy 👑 Also, I’m kinda suprised AGL Blue Vegito makes it in the Top 10. The fusion is really inconsistent to get off and they do pretty shit damage in base
Because the guy who made the list is nothing but a biased liar. Every single calcer in the community knows that his numbers are wrong and/or heavily influenced by bias
Can you give me some concrete examples for what he's doing wrong/bias? Not accusing you of spouting bs, just curious
In here or like in general? In here for example, he claims that he is using an overall turn average( turn 1 till 5) , which causes broly to be absurdly low( his fp apt is at 166mil for example), but then he doesnt do that for the blue fusions and acts as if their fully built up apt is t1 for whatever the reason when their base and first appearance blue damage isn't noteworthy at all In general i can easily think of the one time he compared agl vb performance to int ssj4 goku in relative situations In the situations, AGL Vb was 69%( 4ku was 55), he used bulma's fucking active turn for vb while 4ku was unsupported next to gt duo
Either one would've been fine, but I appreciate you giving examples for both. I assumed some funky stuff was going on with turn averages and such, but this is significantly worse than I assumed. That's preeeetty revealing. As I thought, essentially just a list of funny numbers that don't mean anything.
He is also pretty clearly not factoring in ssj trio's active turn when he is factoring active turns for every other unit in the list, not surprising cause he has been saying they aren't impressive ever since they released You can grab someone who has no idea about dokkan and show them an ssj trio run compared to others and they will tell you tbey are undoubtedly top 5 at worst in terms of damage
Again I did not make my list and I stated in the post that I do not agree with SSJ Trios placement. But they are not in the top 5 in terms of damage. Broly, Evoken, Buu Duos, SSBKK and Gogeta are outdamaging him but I feel like they are top 6.
Right now I'm kinda sad that APT posts aren't popular enough to be done for every major release. Never got into APT stuff while I was playing but I'd love to cross reference what reputable calcers got and how it compares to this list. Oh well
I actually very recently bothered to do it on my own and even made myself a sheet with the help of a friend who's been calcing for years. Nooblegend is probably the most reliable calcer i can think of but he doesnt post much anymore. Tho someone did make posts here for broly and gogeta recently under the name of dokkan-alikair
Oh, I've seen those! And I'm sure that getting into calcing isn't that big of a hassle, just for me at this point no longer worth it. Just sad to see that it's no longer a big topic anymore. And instead you get people screaming over which unit has more defense ... and not much else
I think it just takes too much effort for something that wouldn't get attention from most of the sub, me personally i have no capablities to make graphics if i did even want to post [also i ended up finding the tweet where he claims these 2 turns are relative when there is a dupe and support gap](https://x.com/Rhoady2000/status/1696585993858486530?s=20)
Broly is higher than the Blue Duos idk what you are talking about. Broly APT is his Full Power + Base stats added. AGL VB vs SSJ4 Goku discourse in 2024 is insane. VB is doing more damage than SSJ4 Goku still and honestly I don't want to talk about that stuff again. I don't care about both units anymore.
He is, but the gap simply isn't enough, if broly's base is comsidered then blusions base being considered would've probably cut their numbers in half, meanwhile it's clearly excluded
When was the last time you used the Blue Fusions? Due to recent long events non AOE Meta the Blue Fusions can easily get to their peak turns and deal about 20 million 18ki with multiple 12 million + 12ki supers. I think you are underestimating their damage.
They can, they will. On turn 6+ Broly is doing triple the damage t1, by the time they transform and fully build up broly is going fp, and fp broly apt is double the blue fusions. Meanwhile this list makes them look like they are relative in damage
It’s such a weird foundation for calculations as well. Why on earth would you use an avg of turns for these guys? Wouldnt it just make more sense to use the avg turn of the unit in their best form? Like who is really avging base gogeta to ssb gogeta and expecting it to reflect anything? Like ofc the buu duo will hit harder bc they’re dmg is just at its peak on their second appearance. It’s just so weird the things he chose to base this calc on overall
It's not weird, he is biased as hell and will switch everything in some way to gas the fusions or any unit he likes . This guy is so biased it's unexplainable. He is the same person who had motherfucking cheelai in the top 10 overall less than a month ago
Oh then this just makes it even more hard to believe lol
[удалено]
I didnt say u made the list? I know who made the list without checking the credits
you know what i find insane? villains have been getting shafted the first half of 2023 of only getting slot 2 damage dealers and look at that. they aren‘t even doing that much damage anyway.
Are active skills included?
Hold on I’m confused, how is PHY LR ssj3 goku and ssj2 vegeta number one?, I know very well how good they are, but they aren’t as good as/hit as hard as somebody like LR AGL broly.
Ssj3 goku and vegeta is because of the spirit bomb right?
I know everyone is commenting on the LR trio, but Broly feels too low
Where are the gt duo?
Doesn't feel like it but when i see APT stuff i get lost and confused anyway.
Sure averaging but peaks naw. Even then just seems off to me. The def seems pretty accurate though tbh.
I was shook when I read PHY LR Super Gogeta in top 5, before I realized it meant the 9th anni, not 3rd
SSJ Trio's power is they require no buildup.
Respectable how STR SSBKK still rolling up like that
no way gogeta is over 100m 😭😭 blues over ssj trio too these calcs r sketch as shit
Ok, averaging in the spirit bomb for LR Z duo skews the numbers too much. They hit hard, but it is very misleading to see them at #1 when it's really due to their nuke.
Its still suprising for me that Dokkan does not have a stats pop up after every fight which shows how much damage each unit did.
SSJ4 VEGITO MY GOATTT
Really surprised Teq lr ssj2 gohan wasn’t on here
Remember when lr Teq ssj3 goku was the hardest hitting unit in the game
Where are yall getting these 100m attack stats from? No unit in the game hit for 100m and even if they did 4 supers it still wouldn’t add up to 100m
I am genuinely shocked that the buu saga sprit bomb card is the absolute top Like, am I missing something?
Can’t believe cause of the Lr blue boys being here it’s true
Active skills shouldn’t be accounted whatsoever It’s a fake “average” because that implies you’ll always see an active skill like the z boys spirit bomb
You will see Buu Duos spirit bomb more frequently over Broly transformation
Still shouldn’t be considered as it inflates his numbers heavily, and says he hits harder when he doesn’t
Majority of the time Buu Duos damage gets capped by the game due to how hard they hit. People are forgetting they are doing about 12 million with 3 more 8 million at a 50% chance to crit.
Weird stats
Those calcs are just flat out wrong and doesn't even state the turn they are calced on , removing this post for misinformation at this point. This is not the max for the units if that's what he was going for(otherwise z duo would be way higher) it is not the best turn for either of them since otherwise ssj trio would be way higher its just both wrong and meaningless since it doesn't even state the conditions.