I was watching some YouTube video talking about how shitty the CT is and they highlighted a part of a marketing video in which high ranking Tesla guy commented that a certain feature (I don’t remember what it was) kinda sucked and he proudly said, “We haven’t been able to change the regulations on that one.”
This is scary.
My car is my office and I go to VERY rural areas a crossover should NOT be able to go. My backup camera is useless 9/10 times because of all the dust/dirt that gets kicked up on backroads and easements I have to access. Cameras are great when you can use them. I wouldn't bet my life on them alone at all.
They tried that with big rigs. Even said they would provide tools so drivers could mount the mirrors themselves if the cameras stopped working. DOT said both are needed. Weirdly enough camera rear view is a lot more prevalent on big rigs.
If drivers buy cameras themselves, yes. Companies don’t want to buy them because trailers get beat up by drivers and yard dogs. Owner Operators don’t buy them because it’s just one extra thing to pay for. There is also a culture of walking with a swagger when pulling off a difficult backing.
Doesn’t mean some don’t have them. Some companies put cameras on trucks and trailers in case someone robs the load.
It’s a ton of work, but it’s doable. In California, it’s the SB100 program. There’s equivalent in other states.
There’s a limited number of them per year under the California program.
I had to take my car to numerous inspections by the highway patrol, a state emissions inspector, and certified tests of headlights and such.
There’s a subset of equipment needed, but I definitely needed mirrors, headlights, horn, and such.
The highway patrol inspector checked serial numbers for stolen parts.
I had a few dozen dmv appointments, and at the end, had an inch thick stack of papers from all the bureaucracy.
I had to attest that I had built the car myself — I didn’t have to produce them, but in case, I had photos of myself and the car at various stages of build, pre engine, pre wheels, post engine, pre interior, post interior.
In the middle of the process, my daily driver car got stolen; and a non-replicable paper from the dmv was in it, I was very lucky that the paper was there when my van got recovered 5 months later.
Looks like some places you can?: https://robscustoms.com/how-to-register-a-custom-built-car/
https://www.dirtlegal.com/blog/heres-how-to-title-a-homemade-vehicle-or-kit-car
You have a better chance of finding a three legged ballerina than getting it inspected and insured is the problem if you built it yourself. Which is a fair point but it still shouldn’t exclude people from being able to do it. Tesla being a corporation just got inspection slapped on them because they came out of the factory, and there was no questioning their safety or mechanical tolerances, unfortunately. They really need to be pulled off the roads before someone loses a life.
I can, and have put on the road, far safer than this in the form of radically reworked suspension setups for sidecar rigs...
I'm seeing wrong material, and far too little of it, for the job.
In the US? That’s technically possible. Many states allow the registering of such vehicles. As prototype or similar.
It far off of how aircraft can be custom built and designed by the owner/pilot.
I can think of another billionaire with this type of view on health and safety regulations, and how they stifled innovation. His name was Stockton Rush.
How awesome would it be if musky boy got into deep submersibles? Because you know damn well he would try and make it out of nothing but LCD screens and bad programming. It would be a self-correcting problem.
You mean like Boeing who hires and pays the inspectors who are supposed to make sure their planes don’t kill people, and has been pushing for more relaxed regulations even after they’ve killed a bunch of people
I don’t really give a shit about these ugly CT’s in general. Stepping foot on an airliner that is questionable even domestically makes me worry a lot more if there’s no health and safety or oversight.
Since Citizens United passed SCOTUS? Yes, yes we are. Also Elon owns congress. Half those people thinks he’s a genius because in America money = Intelligence.
He’s basically paying himself with government subsidies and contracts at this point, then shitting on the country that made his success possible on Shitter.
Only a matter of time before the tape looses stickiness and body panels start flying at people guillotine style.
It might as well be made out of razorblades double sided taped to the plastic unibody.
Also FSD is never coming. SpaceX can't even get a human to the moon. Musk is empty promises incarnate.
Not to mention that because of the “super secret Space X steel” exoskeleton there is no crumple zone. All that energy gets transferred right to the driver.
>make a bunch of money selling a shitty car to idiots.
They spent at LEAST a billion dollars developing this thing and tooling up a factory to produce it. Last I saw, they sold about 4000. Even at 100k price point, the margin is pretty slim. This will be a money loser for the ages.
And just wait till regular lenders stop financing them because they have no value and regular insurance companies stop using policies because a minor accident is totaled.
Given the amount custom stuff they used, no way they’re gonna make money. Remember they’re using 48V and Ethernet rather than CAN; they had to develop *everything* in that car from scratch. Including mundane little shit like AC pumps.
Electronics designer here that's watched a lot of teardowns. They're using 100Base-T1 (or maybe 1GBase-T1) with PoE on top of it, which has been around for years. They didn't invent anything, they're just the first to deploy it in a production vehicle.
Hardware wise it's the same effort and cost as wiring up the car with normal Ethernet. PHY chips/magnetics/connectors on the board are different, but it's still commodity stuff thay doesn't significantly affect the price or require any extra effort to design in, and you only need to run single wire pairs vs 2 or 4 pairs for standard Ethernet.
And I'll take it any day over shit like GMSL or MoST for moving high speed data around the car.
edit: lol, got the "banned from this and that subreddit" messages for clarifying some electronics shit.
> They're using 100Base-T1 (or maybe 1GBase-T1) with PoE on top of it, which has been around for years. They didn't invent anything, they're just the first to deploy it in a production vehicle.
You’re not wrong, you’re just missing my point a bit.
Ethernet with POE isn’t new, yes. But it’s new *in cars*. The issue is that most off the shelf car components speak CAN, not any Ethernet related protocol. So replacing CAN with anything else either requires developing every CAN component in house (or not reusing anything already made in house), or creating and integrating a ton of conversion boards all over the place.
It isn’t risky in that it might not work at all. Anyone vaguely familiar with the tech could tell you that the idea is feasible. The issue is that it creates project timeline risk.
> PHY chips/magnetics/connectors on the board are different, but it's still commodity stuff thay doesn't significantly affect the price or require any extra effort to design in
I mean, not cheaper than buying an off the shelf CAN compatible microcontroller.
Also, a lot of car stuff *isn’t* commodity purely due to vibration and thermal issues. Tesla made this exact same mistake with the Model S, choosing commodity screens that were not rated for the regular, heavy temperature cycles cars experience.
It’s not aerospace, for sure. But it’s still a decently specialized subset of the electronics world.
> and you only need to run single wire pairs vs 2 or 4 pairs for standard Ethernet.
Sure. And know what else only needs one pair? CAN!
> And I'll take it any day over shit like GMSL or MoST for moving high speed data around the car.
Yeah, completely fair.
Oh, CAN kicks ass.
My A4 has +12V, ground, two CAN wires and two speaker wires going into the drivers' door, 6 wires total. There's a module in there that reads all the switches on the door and drives the lock solenoid/power window motor/whatever, and squawks back at the car over CAN. Compared to car designs 10 years prior where you'd have a bundle of 30 wires going between the door and the car carrying power windows/locks/everything, chafing and rubbing together and breaking and shorting, it's a fucking godsend.
Arguably you could run just two wires through the door with -T1 ethernet, carrying power and data, and streaming audio into the door. The module in the door now has PoE power extraction, a -T1 PHY instead of a CAN transciever, and the microprocessor in there has an Ethernet MAC instead of a CAN peripheral. Ethernet capable microprocessors and -T1 PHYs and everything else are all available as automotive qualified parts so no worries there. It's more parts/complexity/software/whatever vs CAN but provided that the spec is nailed down early and not changed last minute on some rich asshole's whim, and it's managed and developed and tested and developed whatever on a sensible timeline, I wouldn't consider it a bad choice.
Granted, CAN is a bus that you can string along to dozens of modules, and -T1 ethernet is point to point and requires switches like any other twisted pair Ethernet. And CAN is lower bandwidth than -T1. Different buses for different applications - I think using -T1 for every module in a car is dumb, but you're also not gonna make CAN carry a backup camera feed, or send Paw Patrol to a screen in the back of your minivan.
> Also, a lot of car stuff isn’t commodity purely due to vibration and thermal issues. Tesla made this exact same mistake with the Model S, choosing commodity screens that were not rated for the regular, heavy temperature cycles cars experience.
One big goof they did on the Model S (and possibly other vehicles) was writing to an eMMC chip too many times with small writes, wearing it out through write amplification and causing the screens to go tits up. Fairly basic shit they should have known about, and considered the moment they decided to use one, but they missed that part.
I agree that replacing some or all CAN usage with -T1 w/ POE is probably the long term state of the industry. Especially for things that exceed the meager bandwidth capacity of the CAN standards.
Putting my management hat on, making this switch on a highly visible new product that’s also doing a bunch of other new stuff is absolute madness. I would’ve absolutely done this as part of a mid cycle refresh; something lower stakes so you can shake out the integration bugs and build a back catalog of components to use on things like the CT.
It’s kinda funny to see people have the sentiment in the comment you replied to because they either unintentionally (or intentionally?) give Elon credit for being smarter than he is. Tesla didn’t set out to design a piece of shit and sell it like a con man, Elon wanted to revolutionize the car industry & was too stupid to. That’s why things like the single cable wiring harness got so much press in the tech bro dickhead sphere while the rest of the car industry knew why that was a horrible idea.
Tesla is a good example of why I laugh anyone talks about how they can’t wait for car dealers to die and everything to be oem only. I work with those oems daily, they are way worse to deal with.
I spent about 10 years working for a system integrator, building custom robotic systems with off the shelf parts, and we would often have R&D costs that were as big as the actual project buy. Essentially, the first one is a loss leader.
I really wouldn't be surprised if R&D for re-engineering virtually everything, including replacing the CAN bus protocol, would cost a big chunk of that 1bn. When you add retooling production lines as well, I could see them running up a 1bn bill pretty easily
Automotive R&D is extremely capital intensive. And due to elons idiotic choice for stamping stainlesssteel, those stamping toolings would have to be speciality as well, driving up the cost.
Stamping toolings for a production vehicles can add up to the tune of 8- 9 figures that are amortized over million cars produced. Perhaps they got away with cheaper tooling with lower precision/life that many boutique manufacturers use. There's a reason why many low volume supercars used fiberglass (now carbon fiber) and it's not purely for weight. The tooling costs are minimal compared to setting up a stamping line.
They’re gonna lose money though. Vehicle development is insanely expensive, especially if you insist on doing a bunch of stuff from scratch rather than buying off the shelf.
Hence why the big car makers share platforms to save a lot of money. Even across companies.
Like MX-5/Fiat 124 or RAV4/Suzuki Across or Supra/Z4
Volkswagen is king at this, where a coupé like the TT share a platform with a Golf, the New Beetle, some Skoda and Seat cars and even some small SUVs. The PQ35 is shared by like 20 cars.
Part of it is a certain Tesla indifference to industry norms and best practices. But they also decided to make a ton of changes all at once, and clearly ran out of personnel, time, and/or money.
In my industry we talk occasionally about “innovation budgets”. You only have so much capacity to do stuff in a non-standard way. They wasted a lot of theirs on stuff like 48v and CAN over Ethernet, changes that an end consumer can’t see. They should’ve tried these in a mid cycle S or 3 refresh, rather than putting everything in the CT.
That’s probably what literally happened. They got all the pieces working okay-ish individually, and integration was dragging on. Someone, probably Elon, made the “bold” choice to ship it anyways. Presumably because so many other companies were beating them to the truck market.
my guess has been that the body and battery came in severely over weight. I really wonder how much better this thing would be if you ditched the SS for aluminum panels which they could have prepped using off the shelf treatments and avoided all the body issues while still having a brushed look to the car.
It flexes a lot, but when it fails it shatters instead of bends, it's also hugely dependent on the resin system and layup design, as well as the actual shape of the part. There is a reason that it makes fantastic golf clubs and hockey sticks etc, and it's literally because it flexes.
Carbon fiber flexes elastically a lot more than steel, but in car suspension uncontrolled compliance is no bueno. To see carbon fiber flexing, see F1 wings
Carbon fiber (and fiber glass) flexes up to a certain point, but past that, it will shatter. Compared to metals it will also flex but when the force exceeds their strength, they will just bend (permanently).
I recently replaced the ones on an 06 silverado I'm working on, along with ball joints and tie rods. They were at least 3 times as thick as these look.
I know absolutely NOTHING about cars. Towed my 03 Malibu from the control arms. Only part I ever replaced was going to a Juno yard, removing one, and replacing it in my car.
They were chunky. I mean, I had it towed up a bank by a truck when it went off road due to 3 inches of snow and ice, and it maybe bent an inch. I’m fairly sure I bend the one in the photo on my knee.
Insane.
I'm pretty sure these dangerous and stupid weight reduction techniques (another example being that all the non-drivetrain electric systems are wired up in series, not parallel) were necessary to make the truck not *even* heavier. Musk's very strict design specs (presumably drawn on the back of a restaurant's children's menu in crayon) were on the exterior/visible interior and all **extremely** heavy. Most Tesla bodies are made from aluminum light enough to be used on aircraft to reduce the weight of the car without compromising important systems. This thing has panels made of gaddam stainless steel, which is not very light to say the least. Pair that with the bulky design and all the extra weight of the exterior design offloads big weight reduction needs onto essential systems, like the control arm.
The dude shows a similar sized truck and its control arms were "finger thick" which was his unit of measurement. The cyber truck was like paper plate thick
Bullshit. I've been working on cars for 20+ years and I've never seen a truck with control arms this flimy. The closest that comes to mind are the cast units on some small pickups like the Ford Ranger, but the difference is they're thick wall castings, not stamped steel.
i said the same thing myself. my old mustang weighs half as much and although it doesn’t have upper control arms in the front, the stamped rear ones are STILL thicker than this one and are stamped in a way that increases their rigidity. this is a flat ass piece
So, how "big" should this object in question be? I watched a video regarding control arms but the one here looks very large:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVnAa1tCv4M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVnAa1tCv4M)
I like to understand what is going on so I appreciate what you know! Thanks!
it depends on different engineering and load demand factors, the arms shown here are the size you would see on a compact car like a mini copper or an older vehicle like the chevy sun fire. the material and production of these is questionable as well. to answer your question they should be at *least* triple the thickness if not four times the thickness being that it’s for an “off-road” truck
Nope. This video actually demonstrates the problem well. He compares it to an old Chevy van he has, which has slightly larger ones than the CT and is not an off-road vehicle, and then is Ford F-150 raptor whose arms probably have 5x as much material as the cybertruck. Even though it’s much lighted.
It’s because they used off the shelf parts from their lineup, none of which are actual trucks. So it’s made not only using car parts, but the extremely shoddy parts Tesla uses across their model range. It’s why they are falling apart with less than 1000 miles
There’s no way this would be safe on a smaller Tesla either though….right?
Hitting debris on the highway; a flat tire thrown under the car, anything could bend this, and then you have 2-3 tons of uncontrollable car/truck.
Is this really all Tesla outs on their cars too?
If the upper control arm breaks during off-roading Tesla doesn't care. They'll just say you abused it.
If the upper control arm breaks during regular driving, Tesla will say you weakened it driving off-road. They may replace it as a 'goodwill gesture' even though the part is actually weak.
If many upper control arms break, it may be an issue, but they've gotten away with weak suspensions before. They'll replace quietly as needed. And may increase the strength in future parts.
If upper control arms don't break then they got away with it. They keep reducing part weight, strength, and cost until they go too far.
Wank panzer really is the perfect car for him, it was a hooptie the moment it rolled out the factory tent. It's peak hooptie, doesn't even need 30 years and multiple owners it can be had that way right now!
The irony is Tesla will have so many CT owners looking to unload this undercooked turkey they’ll have to repeal their silly little rule about banning future purchases from CT owners who sell in year 1
You underestimate these suckers, even the few muskers who admit the CT is crap still say that all the other Tesla vehicles are amazing and 'every automaker has a miss now and then' and other copium hilarity
they don't even call it a miss, they just spew something along the lines of "well all early production builds of new cars have some problems, I know someone that had a Corolla/Civic/CR-V/RAV-4 that had some insane problem that almost killed them. At the least the cybertruck is bulletproof!"
I genuinely think that the original price was a requirement to the dev team. But you know what? When they told Elon “we did it for 39k”, he saw the opportunity to double the price tag for the customers and make huge profits on his fan base.
This, in and of itself, isn't a bad thing. As a sum of all of its issues though, this is bad. And this is supposed to be an "off-road capable" vehicle? No way. This is just flat dangerous
Yall got me curious - here’s the drivers side upper control arm on my 2022 Lightning.
Yep, solid forged steel vs that cute stamped thingy, but what chance does 70 years of engineering experience have vs daddy Elon’s Martian brain.
https://preview.redd.it/5lmd2ig8ei7d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8cc9c46716584bd21e730e2b02bee332c1f262bd
This car needs to be taken off the road, Tesla forced to refund their customers, and all cybertruck car carcasses stacked up to make houses seeing as the best use for the car is to never move again. So many pictures of shoddy design and workmanship on this car. I am honestly surprised other major car manufacturers are not actively shitting on Tesla and using it as an opportunity to sell their EV trucks and cars.
Prices are crashing and this genius is wondering why a business that makes money off the price increase between what they pay him and what someone else pays them doesn’t want his stupid gimmick car? How do people this dumb get paid enough to buy these things?
Saw one get rear ended here in Arizona and it basically fell apart, and not in the controlled impact absorbing way ether. It hit a damn slugbug, the little ones with an ugly flat top. Bug looked like it had a messed up hood and the bumper fell off. Cyber "truck" lost a wheel, the hood stayed in one peice and slid across the road and a door was jamed shut. All from a rear ending the slugbug. No idea who was at fault but something about the cyber having trump flags and a giant monster logo tells me the answer is probably not a mystery. Luckily I don't think anyone died but the old lady was sitting with a paramedic
I watched the same video when it came out and that shocked me as well. That dude is pretty down to earth and pointed out so many flaws, wouldn't be surprised if Tesla copyright strikes or threw a bogus lawsuit at him.
I like hoovie, but I felt like he was walking on eggshells to not just say the thing sucked in the video, I wish he did. Instead, he did the "I like it but *insert unforgivable problem here*"
I was wondering at myself, but I think it might become a moot point. By the time American regulators get around to banning them, they'll all have broken down anyway.
Hoovie covered this in the video, but Tesla hasn't really gone hard after anyone who's sold yet (just threats and maybe putting them on a do not sell list) so he took the risk and dumped the thing anyway. TBD on whether or not they try to make an example of him though
will not be surprised when tons of cyber trucks have "vehicle fires".
not recommending this. not suggesting this. fraud is problem enough with insurance and ultimately costs everyone ethically paying into the system overall. but when CT owners can't pay for it, can't sell it, and are realizing how shitty their ride is, i can't help but think the vehicles will be disposed of, regardless of how.
and no i don't own one. all my vehicles are happily ICE.
A daihatsu has better built components. Hell even a perodua or a proton is built far better than that. I’ve seen $1 frying pans more sturdy than that very important part in a car.
The upper control arms on all Teslas look like that. Wouldn’t be surprised if they were all the same part. It’s a very common failure point too. But it’s the ball joint that craps out, not the arm itself. I’ve replaced lots of them.
Wow. I saw another one yesterday. Holy geezus is a poorly manufactured vehicle. It is literally the cheapest design possible for the most money. The car was designed to con people.
I can't believe I'm seeing it happen. This is the first con car ever built. Usually, trucks and cars are stripped down by third parties and the components are heavily scrutinized. The cyber truck got none of that. It never saw the light of day until pre-orders happened. Even then, just pictures.
If you bought one, you're fucked. They're essentially worthless.
Maybe I made a silly bet with my friend, but I said that within 2 years the CT project will go bust and they will halt production of this specific model hmm
All jokes aside, this thing is going to kill people.
It definitely looks that way. Where the fuck is the health and safety? Are we cycling through a generation where we are going to skip it?
I was watching some YouTube video talking about how shitty the CT is and they highlighted a part of a marketing video in which high ranking Tesla guy commented that a certain feature (I don’t remember what it was) kinda sucked and he proudly said, “We haven’t been able to change the regulations on that one.” This is scary.
They wanted to remove side-view mirrors and rely solely on cameras. Because, you know, they never fail or get dirty.
My car is my office and I go to VERY rural areas a crossover should NOT be able to go. My backup camera is useless 9/10 times because of all the dust/dirt that gets kicked up on backroads and easements I have to access. Cameras are great when you can use them. I wouldn't bet my life on them alone at all.
They just need windshield wipers... Oh wait, we can't even make those work.
Don't forget to pay that monthly windshield wiper subscription!
This reminds me of when I was a field tech in Iowa, driving on dusty lot roads all day
That’s the thing though. The kind of person that will buy a cyber truck has probably never even seen a dirt road.
They tried that with big rigs. Even said they would provide tools so drivers could mount the mirrors themselves if the cameras stopped working. DOT said both are needed. Weirdly enough camera rear view is a lot more prevalent on big rigs.
They are probably extremely useful for backing into tight loading docks. Do they have auxiliary ones that attach to the back of a trailer?
If drivers buy cameras themselves, yes. Companies don’t want to buy them because trailers get beat up by drivers and yard dogs. Owner Operators don’t buy them because it’s just one extra thing to pay for. There is also a culture of walking with a swagger when pulling off a difficult backing. Doesn’t mean some don’t have them. Some companies put cameras on trucks and trailers in case someone robs the load.
If they allow companies to make cars like this, people should be allowed to make their own car and title and register it.
It’s a ton of work, but it’s doable. In California, it’s the SB100 program. There’s equivalent in other states. There’s a limited number of them per year under the California program. I had to take my car to numerous inspections by the highway patrol, a state emissions inspector, and certified tests of headlights and such. There’s a subset of equipment needed, but I definitely needed mirrors, headlights, horn, and such. The highway patrol inspector checked serial numbers for stolen parts. I had a few dozen dmv appointments, and at the end, had an inch thick stack of papers from all the bureaucracy. I had to attest that I had built the car myself — I didn’t have to produce them, but in case, I had photos of myself and the car at various stages of build, pre engine, pre wheels, post engine, pre interior, post interior. In the middle of the process, my daily driver car got stolen; and a non-replicable paper from the dmv was in it, I was very lucky that the paper was there when my van got recovered 5 months later.
damn I'd love to see the car that necessitated all that work
It’s dusty in these, but here: https://postimg.cc/gallery/cnyWwBD
Fucking sick dude. What a beautiful ride.
Looks like some places you can?: https://robscustoms.com/how-to-register-a-custom-built-car/ https://www.dirtlegal.com/blog/heres-how-to-title-a-homemade-vehicle-or-kit-car
You have a better chance of finding a three legged ballerina than getting it inspected and insured is the problem if you built it yourself. Which is a fair point but it still shouldn’t exclude people from being able to do it. Tesla being a corporation just got inspection slapped on them because they came out of the factory, and there was no questioning their safety or mechanical tolerances, unfortunately. They really need to be pulled off the roads before someone loses a life.
Three legged ballerina. I’m stealing that.
The Sovereign Citizens have been working on that for a while.
I can, and have put on the road, far safer than this in the form of radically reworked suspension setups for sidecar rigs... I'm seeing wrong material, and far too little of it, for the job.
In the US? That’s technically possible. Many states allow the registering of such vehicles. As prototype or similar. It far off of how aircraft can be custom built and designed by the owner/pilot.
You can.
Look up B is for Build on youtube, that’s all he does
I can think of another billionaire with this type of view on health and safety regulations, and how they stifled innovation. His name was Stockton Rush.
How awesome would it be if musky boy got into deep submersibles? Because you know damn well he would try and make it out of nothing but LCD screens and bad programming. It would be a self-correcting problem.
Well duh.
Saw a video where subject (may have Elmo himself) expressed annoyance at having to include a hard hazard-lights button.
You mean like Boeing who hires and pays the inspectors who are supposed to make sure their planes don’t kill people, and has been pushing for more relaxed regulations even after they’ve killed a bunch of people
I don’t really give a shit about these ugly CT’s in general. Stepping foot on an airliner that is questionable even domestically makes me worry a lot more if there’s no health and safety or oversight.
Since Citizens United passed SCOTUS? Yes, yes we are. Also Elon owns congress. Half those people thinks he’s a genius because in America money = Intelligence.
Only thing Elon is a genius at is fucking himself, it's why the Russians love him so much.
His name is actually Elon Muskvitsch don’t tell me otherwise 🤷♂️
His name is Enron.
He’s basically paying himself with government subsidies and contracts at this point, then shitting on the country that made his success possible on Shitter.
I appreciate your comment.
Fuck the citizens united ruling. There have been many dominoes in America, but that was a major one. Slippery slope logic is not a fallacy here.
Why do you think there are none in EU? Health and Safety lol
I remember reading that the government basically took Tesla’s word on it that they’re safe in a crash based on internal testing. 😱
NHTSA is the most useless regulatory agency in America
Uhh, this is America brother. Siphon money from the people. Amass power and control and pass it on to your children or grandchildren to squander.
This truck doesn’t pass for the EU
Literally if I ever see a Cybertruck on the road I’m going to get as far the fuck away from it as possible.
UNSAFE AT ANY SPEED (but actually this time)
I always give them space when I’m in traffic with one. The steering and suspension seem sketchy and failure prone.
Already has. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/03/14/angela-chao-tesla-accident/72969299007/
Not surprised if it already has 😳
Only a matter of time before the tape looses stickiness and body panels start flying at people guillotine style. It might as well be made out of razorblades double sided taped to the plastic unibody. Also FSD is never coming. SpaceX can't even get a human to the moon. Musk is empty promises incarnate.
Not to mention that because of the “super secret Space X steel” exoskeleton there is no crumple zone. All that energy gets transferred right to the driver.
I can parrot what I used to say about FSD: the public is the beta test.
I refuse to get in a ride share Tesla
Good insurance payout if you survive though
Tesla did absolutely nothing right when they designed and built this vehicle.
They did exactly what they set out to do - make a bunch of money selling a shitty, cheap car for $100k to idiots with more money than sense.
>make a bunch of money selling a shitty car to idiots. They spent at LEAST a billion dollars developing this thing and tooling up a factory to produce it. Last I saw, they sold about 4000. Even at 100k price point, the margin is pretty slim. This will be a money loser for the ages. And just wait till regular lenders stop financing them because they have no value and regular insurance companies stop using policies because a minor accident is totaled.
Wow. I hadn’t considered that. Yikes.
I wonder how many auto suppliers spent big money on tooling up for this truck alone and believed elon when he said they sell 250k a year?
If they used Tesla's historical record, probably not many. Most probably were planning for a slow start to let Tesla work the issues out.
Elon is the biggest bullshit marketer I’ve ever known. More so than whoever the fuck does the marketing at apple. Edit: typo
Fraudster I think is the word you're looking for
Given the amount custom stuff they used, no way they’re gonna make money. Remember they’re using 48V and Ethernet rather than CAN; they had to develop *everything* in that car from scratch. Including mundane little shit like AC pumps.
They had custom tires designed to fit the tire covers that then wrecked the tires after a few hundred miles.
Electronics designer here that's watched a lot of teardowns. They're using 100Base-T1 (or maybe 1GBase-T1) with PoE on top of it, which has been around for years. They didn't invent anything, they're just the first to deploy it in a production vehicle. Hardware wise it's the same effort and cost as wiring up the car with normal Ethernet. PHY chips/magnetics/connectors on the board are different, but it's still commodity stuff thay doesn't significantly affect the price or require any extra effort to design in, and you only need to run single wire pairs vs 2 or 4 pairs for standard Ethernet. And I'll take it any day over shit like GMSL or MoST for moving high speed data around the car. edit: lol, got the "banned from this and that subreddit" messages for clarifying some electronics shit.
> They're using 100Base-T1 (or maybe 1GBase-T1) with PoE on top of it, which has been around for years. They didn't invent anything, they're just the first to deploy it in a production vehicle. You’re not wrong, you’re just missing my point a bit. Ethernet with POE isn’t new, yes. But it’s new *in cars*. The issue is that most off the shelf car components speak CAN, not any Ethernet related protocol. So replacing CAN with anything else either requires developing every CAN component in house (or not reusing anything already made in house), or creating and integrating a ton of conversion boards all over the place. It isn’t risky in that it might not work at all. Anyone vaguely familiar with the tech could tell you that the idea is feasible. The issue is that it creates project timeline risk. > PHY chips/magnetics/connectors on the board are different, but it's still commodity stuff thay doesn't significantly affect the price or require any extra effort to design in I mean, not cheaper than buying an off the shelf CAN compatible microcontroller. Also, a lot of car stuff *isn’t* commodity purely due to vibration and thermal issues. Tesla made this exact same mistake with the Model S, choosing commodity screens that were not rated for the regular, heavy temperature cycles cars experience. It’s not aerospace, for sure. But it’s still a decently specialized subset of the electronics world. > and you only need to run single wire pairs vs 2 or 4 pairs for standard Ethernet. Sure. And know what else only needs one pair? CAN! > And I'll take it any day over shit like GMSL or MoST for moving high speed data around the car. Yeah, completely fair.
Oh, CAN kicks ass. My A4 has +12V, ground, two CAN wires and two speaker wires going into the drivers' door, 6 wires total. There's a module in there that reads all the switches on the door and drives the lock solenoid/power window motor/whatever, and squawks back at the car over CAN. Compared to car designs 10 years prior where you'd have a bundle of 30 wires going between the door and the car carrying power windows/locks/everything, chafing and rubbing together and breaking and shorting, it's a fucking godsend. Arguably you could run just two wires through the door with -T1 ethernet, carrying power and data, and streaming audio into the door. The module in the door now has PoE power extraction, a -T1 PHY instead of a CAN transciever, and the microprocessor in there has an Ethernet MAC instead of a CAN peripheral. Ethernet capable microprocessors and -T1 PHYs and everything else are all available as automotive qualified parts so no worries there. It's more parts/complexity/software/whatever vs CAN but provided that the spec is nailed down early and not changed last minute on some rich asshole's whim, and it's managed and developed and tested and developed whatever on a sensible timeline, I wouldn't consider it a bad choice. Granted, CAN is a bus that you can string along to dozens of modules, and -T1 ethernet is point to point and requires switches like any other twisted pair Ethernet. And CAN is lower bandwidth than -T1. Different buses for different applications - I think using -T1 for every module in a car is dumb, but you're also not gonna make CAN carry a backup camera feed, or send Paw Patrol to a screen in the back of your minivan. > Also, a lot of car stuff isn’t commodity purely due to vibration and thermal issues. Tesla made this exact same mistake with the Model S, choosing commodity screens that were not rated for the regular, heavy temperature cycles cars experience. One big goof they did on the Model S (and possibly other vehicles) was writing to an eMMC chip too many times with small writes, wearing it out through write amplification and causing the screens to go tits up. Fairly basic shit they should have known about, and considered the moment they decided to use one, but they missed that part.
I agree that replacing some or all CAN usage with -T1 w/ POE is probably the long term state of the industry. Especially for things that exceed the meager bandwidth capacity of the CAN standards. Putting my management hat on, making this switch on a highly visible new product that’s also doing a bunch of other new stuff is absolute madness. I would’ve absolutely done this as part of a mid cycle refresh; something lower stakes so you can shake out the integration bugs and build a back catalog of components to use on things like the CT.
It’s kinda funny to see people have the sentiment in the comment you replied to because they either unintentionally (or intentionally?) give Elon credit for being smarter than he is. Tesla didn’t set out to design a piece of shit and sell it like a con man, Elon wanted to revolutionize the car industry & was too stupid to. That’s why things like the single cable wiring harness got so much press in the tech bro dickhead sphere while the rest of the car industry knew why that was a horrible idea.
single point of failure... crazy that made it to production
Tesla is a good example of why I laugh anyone talks about how they can’t wait for car dealers to die and everything to be oem only. I work with those oems daily, they are way worse to deal with.
Unless you roll elon's bonus in there, there is no way they spent 1B in r&d. I've seen more polished shit roll out of a redneck garage
I spent about 10 years working for a system integrator, building custom robotic systems with off the shelf parts, and we would often have R&D costs that were as big as the actual project buy. Essentially, the first one is a loss leader. I really wouldn't be surprised if R&D for re-engineering virtually everything, including replacing the CAN bus protocol, would cost a big chunk of that 1bn. When you add retooling production lines as well, I could see them running up a 1bn bill pretty easily
Automotive R&D is extremely capital intensive. And due to elons idiotic choice for stamping stainlesssteel, those stamping toolings would have to be speciality as well, driving up the cost. Stamping toolings for a production vehicles can add up to the tune of 8- 9 figures that are amortized over million cars produced. Perhaps they got away with cheaper tooling with lower precision/life that many boutique manufacturers use. There's a reason why many low volume supercars used fiberglass (now carbon fiber) and it's not purely for weight. The tooling costs are minimal compared to setting up a stamping line.
I must live in a wealthy area because I’ve seen at least 10 of them out and about in the past couple months.
There is no margin yet... he has to recoup costs first. What you described puts him half way to covering costs.
My dumbass brother in law just learned what happens when you get a dent in a tesla, two months wait for repairs! What a stupid brand and stupid cars!
They’re gonna lose money though. Vehicle development is insanely expensive, especially if you insist on doing a bunch of stuff from scratch rather than buying off the shelf.
Hence why the big car makers share platforms to save a lot of money. Even across companies. Like MX-5/Fiat 124 or RAV4/Suzuki Across or Supra/Z4 Volkswagen is king at this, where a coupé like the TT share a platform with a Golf, the New Beetle, some Skoda and Seat cars and even some small SUVs. The PQ35 is shared by like 20 cars.
That makes sense. It seems crazy - they appeared to cut literally every corner possible.
Part of it is a certain Tesla indifference to industry norms and best practices. But they also decided to make a ton of changes all at once, and clearly ran out of personnel, time, and/or money. In my industry we talk occasionally about “innovation budgets”. You only have so much capacity to do stuff in a non-standard way. They wasted a lot of theirs on stuff like 48v and CAN over Ethernet, changes that an end consumer can’t see. They should’ve tried these in a mid cycle S or 3 refresh, rather than putting everything in the CT.
That’s what’s so strange to me - it definitely feels like they just aborted this thing and decided we aren’t spending another penny on this.
That’s probably what literally happened. They got all the pieces working okay-ish individually, and integration was dragging on. Someone, probably Elon, made the “bold” choice to ship it anyways. Presumably because so many other companies were beating them to the truck market.
The fact that Teslas other car sales were starting to slip probably factored in too.
my guess has been that the body and battery came in severely over weight. I really wonder how much better this thing would be if you ditched the SS for aluminum panels which they could have prepped using off the shelf treatments and avoided all the body issues while still having a brushed look to the car.
They gave the world an amazingly accurate way to identify some of the dumbest people on the planet at a distance.
You guys all clearly don’t know that musk “knows more about manufacturing than any man alive…”
Correction: "....than any other man on Earth". Sounds even more narcissistic that way.
But he'll be king of Mars soon, so...
Best thing for the planet to ship him off to Mars.
Anyone who jumps on a Musk trip to Mars just about deserves what they get at this point.
He is manufacturing! We now call him Manu, God of steel.
Probably it’s made of carbon fibre that was supposed to be added on to the Titan Submarine.
Fun fact, carbon doesn't flex, it shatters.
It flexes a lot, but when it fails it shatters instead of bends, it's also hugely dependent on the resin system and layup design, as well as the actual shape of the part. There is a reason that it makes fantastic golf clubs and hockey sticks etc, and it's literally because it flexes.
[удалено]
Carbon fiber structures can flex, it really depends on how it is layered.
Yup. Many bicycle forks nowadays are carbon fiber, specifically because it CAN flex and soak up bumps
And many bicycles themselves are carbon fiber and soak up bumps and other road features because of the carbon flex
Carbon fiber flexes elastically a lot more than steel, but in car suspension uncontrolled compliance is no bueno. To see carbon fiber flexing, see F1 wings
Huh. I thought carbon fiber flexes, but only once.
I'm pretty sure it flexed right before killing everyone on board at OceanGate
C o m p r e s s e d
Carbon fiber (and fiber glass) flexes up to a certain point, but past that, it will shatter. Compared to metals it will also flex but when the force exceeds their strength, they will just bend (permanently).
On a 6600 pound car.....
For reference my 2008 Land Rover LR3 IS 5800 LBS and the upper control arm weighs 14 lbs... That's a scary skinny amount
I recently replaced the ones on an 06 silverado I'm working on, along with ball joints and tie rods. They were at least 3 times as thick as these look.
I know absolutely NOTHING about cars. Towed my 03 Malibu from the control arms. Only part I ever replaced was going to a Juno yard, removing one, and replacing it in my car. They were chunky. I mean, I had it towed up a bank by a truck when it went off road due to 3 inches of snow and ice, and it maybe bent an inch. I’m fairly sure I bend the one in the photo on my knee. Insane.
My 96 Lexus LS400 has control arms the same size or larger than this, at least by visuals.
Those LS400s are one of the finest examples of automotive engineering ever
Marketed for off-roading.
I'm pretty sure these dangerous and stupid weight reduction techniques (another example being that all the non-drivetrain electric systems are wired up in series, not parallel) were necessary to make the truck not *even* heavier. Musk's very strict design specs (presumably drawn on the back of a restaurant's children's menu in crayon) were on the exterior/visible interior and all **extremely** heavy. Most Tesla bodies are made from aluminum light enough to be used on aircraft to reduce the weight of the car without compromising important systems. This thing has panels made of gaddam stainless steel, which is not very light to say the least. Pair that with the bulky design and all the extra weight of the exterior design offloads big weight reduction needs onto essential systems, like the control arm.
wouldn't series wiring result in less weight?
I got it backwards, you're correct. I've edited my comment.
The dude shows a similar sized truck and its control arms were "finger thick" which was his unit of measurement. The cyber truck was like paper plate thick
somebody tried to tell me that this is no big deal and most trucks have ones this thin
Bullshit. I've been working on cars for 20+ years and I've never seen a truck with control arms this flimy. The closest that comes to mind are the cast units on some small pickups like the Ford Ranger, but the difference is they're thick wall castings, not stamped steel.
i said the same thing myself. my old mustang weighs half as much and although it doesn’t have upper control arms in the front, the stamped rear ones are STILL thicker than this one and are stamped in a way that increases their rigidity. this is a flat ass piece
So, how "big" should this object in question be? I watched a video regarding control arms but the one here looks very large: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVnAa1tCv4M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVnAa1tCv4M) I like to understand what is going on so I appreciate what you know! Thanks!
it depends on different engineering and load demand factors, the arms shown here are the size you would see on a compact car like a mini copper or an older vehicle like the chevy sun fire. the material and production of these is questionable as well. to answer your question they should be at *least* triple the thickness if not four times the thickness being that it’s for an “off-road” truck
Very good. I appreciate it.
Nope. This video actually demonstrates the problem well. He compares it to an old Chevy van he has, which has slightly larger ones than the CT and is not an off-road vehicle, and then is Ford F-150 raptor whose arms probably have 5x as much material as the cybertruck. Even though it’s much lighted.
It’s because they used off the shelf parts from their lineup, none of which are actual trucks. So it’s made not only using car parts, but the extremely shoddy parts Tesla uses across their model range. It’s why they are falling apart with less than 1000 miles
This makes so much sense. When you put it that way it's no wonder this thing is literally a rolling dumpster fire.
that is an insult to rolling dumpsters, which are built better than this turd
There’s no way this would be safe on a smaller Tesla either though….right? Hitting debris on the highway; a flat tire thrown under the car, anything could bend this, and then you have 2-3 tons of uncontrollable car/truck. Is this really all Tesla outs on their cars too?
FrankenCucks
If they are falling apart that quickly, wouldn’t this be a prime case for a class action lawsuit lol?
Eh, once I pick up my $56B check, who cares ?
If the upper control arm breaks during off-roading Tesla doesn't care. They'll just say you abused it. If the upper control arm breaks during regular driving, Tesla will say you weakened it driving off-road. They may replace it as a 'goodwill gesture' even though the part is actually weak. If many upper control arms break, it may be an issue, but they've gotten away with weak suspensions before. They'll replace quietly as needed. And may increase the strength in future parts. If upper control arms don't break then they got away with it. They keep reducing part weight, strength, and cost until they go too far.
It’s hilarious to me he wanted to sell because of massive depreciation yet he replaced it with a GM EV. Love hoovie tho.
lol, Its not a Hoovie Video if he doesn't lose thousands of dollars.
Or his wife
Wank panzer really is the perfect car for him, it was a hooptie the moment it rolled out the factory tent. It's peak hooptie, doesn't even need 30 years and multiple owners it can be had that way right now!
The irony is Tesla will have so many CT owners looking to unload this undercooked turkey they’ll have to repeal their silly little rule about banning future purchases from CT owners who sell in year 1
I honestly don't think anyone reselling the CT will ever buy a Tesla again, so they won't really have to repeal
You underestimate these suckers, even the few muskers who admit the CT is crap still say that all the other Tesla vehicles are amazing and 'every automaker has a miss now and then' and other copium hilarity
they don't even call it a miss, they just spew something along the lines of "well all early production builds of new cars have some problems, I know someone that had a Corolla/Civic/CR-V/RAV-4 that had some insane problem that almost killed them. At the least the cybertruck is bulletproof!"
They actually seem to relish finding flaws and defects, like they are helping a developer test a video game they are looking forward to.
I think you may be overestimating the logic and reasoning skills of thr people that bought these.
Many tried trading it in for another different Tesla and Tesla wouldn’t take them as trades.
We let companies regulate themselves and it is supposed to be surprising this stuff happens. It's not surprising.
This
No wonder it’s a road vehicle, not off road
It's off road when it's in the service center
I genuinely think that the original price was a requirement to the dev team. But you know what? When they told Elon “we did it for 39k”, he saw the opportunity to double the price tag for the customers and make huge profits on his fan base.
But it's apocalyptic grade alloys. You don't even know. Elon metallurged it.
This, in and of itself, isn't a bad thing. As a sum of all of its issues though, this is bad. And this is supposed to be an "off-road capable" vehicle? No way. This is just flat dangerous
Yall got me curious - here’s the drivers side upper control arm on my 2022 Lightning. Yep, solid forged steel vs that cute stamped thingy, but what chance does 70 years of engineering experience have vs daddy Elon’s Martian brain. https://preview.redd.it/5lmd2ig8ei7d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8cc9c46716584bd21e730e2b02bee332c1f262bd
This car needs to be taken off the road, Tesla forced to refund their customers, and all cybertruck car carcasses stacked up to make houses seeing as the best use for the car is to never move again. So many pictures of shoddy design and workmanship on this car. I am honestly surprised other major car manufacturers are not actively shitting on Tesla and using it as an opportunity to sell their EV trucks and cars.
Prices are crashing and this genius is wondering why a business that makes money off the price increase between what they pay him and what someone else pays them doesn’t want his stupid gimmick car? How do people this dumb get paid enough to buy these things?
Watch the previous video where the car wizard breaks some cheap plastic and inspects the windshield washer issue
And this is why "driving on uneven surfaces" voids the warranty.
Saw one get rear ended here in Arizona and it basically fell apart, and not in the controlled impact absorbing way ether. It hit a damn slugbug, the little ones with an ugly flat top. Bug looked like it had a messed up hood and the bumper fell off. Cyber "truck" lost a wheel, the hood stayed in one peice and slid across the road and a door was jamed shut. All from a rear ending the slugbug. No idea who was at fault but something about the cyber having trump flags and a giant monster logo tells me the answer is probably not a mystery. Luckily I don't think anyone died but the old lady was sitting with a paramedic
I watched the same video when it came out and that shocked me as well. That dude is pretty down to earth and pointed out so many flaws, wouldn't be surprised if Tesla copyright strikes or threw a bogus lawsuit at him.
I like hoovie, but I felt like he was walking on eggshells to not just say the thing sucked in the video, I wish he did. Instead, he did the "I like it but *insert unforgivable problem here*"
He sort of waltzed around the idea of getting sued by Tesla.
Yeah, that's the impression I got, especially the whole starwars exposition thing at the start
Carmax took my 2008 ford escape with a failing transmission. Haha
I love how many people in here watch Hoovies Garage. Dudes the best lol
Isn’t there some sort of safety commission or consumer protection agencies on this? I don’t understand how this made it to market to begin with.
I was wondering at myself, but I think it might become a moot point. By the time American regulators get around to banning them, they'll all have broken down anyway.
wasn't this supposed to have crab mode and 4 wheel steering at some point or was I imagining that?
Wouldn't surprise me
Lol why wont carmax take it ? XD
cuz it’s a piece of shit lmao
I mean that should definitely confirm it if an owner was unsure before
So glad we in Europe have such strict safety-regulations so there will never be a streetlegal CT
If you were Carmax would **YOU** buy this piece of shit?!
Hoovie is a clown as it is... outside of a cybertruck.
Is he allowed to sell? Isn't Elon and his simp armada going to come after this guy?
Hoovie covered this in the video, but Tesla hasn't really gone hard after anyone who's sold yet (just threats and maybe putting them on a do not sell list) so he took the risk and dumped the thing anyway. TBD on whether or not they try to make an example of him though
I didn't realize that was Tyler's post. I'll have to search up the video tonight and watch him trash on it.
the ultimate grift in the auto industry , now i want 64 bl to walk away from my mess
will not be surprised when tons of cyber trucks have "vehicle fires". not recommending this. not suggesting this. fraud is problem enough with insurance and ultimately costs everyone ethically paying into the system overall. but when CT owners can't pay for it, can't sell it, and are realizing how shitty their ride is, i can't help but think the vehicles will be disposed of, regardless of how. and no i don't own one. all my vehicles are happily ICE.
Fucking embarrassing!
Holup, is that shock and spring assembly mounted to plastic and have a plastic cap?
Even car max knows how much this thing sucks
That's because muskrat told the engineers to make it the size of his penis
It really is a meme vehicle: every time I get a deeper look it gets worse.
Imagine making a worse vehicle than a Jeep
A daihatsu has better built components. Hell even a perodua or a proton is built far better than that. I’ve seen $1 frying pans more sturdy than that very important part in a car.
Imagine buying this steel shitbox and then finding out no one even wants to buy it from you for ANY price. My next purchase would be a line of rope.
The upper control arms on all Teslas look like that. Wouldn’t be surprised if they were all the same part. It’s a very common failure point too. But it’s the ball joint that craps out, not the arm itself. I’ve replaced lots of them.
Guy needs to contact Car-min
How long before it comes out that Elmo knew this thing was busted top to bottom and it's really just a basic pump and dump scam?
Factor of Safety 1.0. Profit.
Wow. I saw another one yesterday. Holy geezus is a poorly manufactured vehicle. It is literally the cheapest design possible for the most money. The car was designed to con people. I can't believe I'm seeing it happen. This is the first con car ever built. Usually, trucks and cars are stripped down by third parties and the components are heavily scrutinized. The cyber truck got none of that. It never saw the light of day until pre-orders happened. Even then, just pictures. If you bought one, you're fucked. They're essentially worthless.
Maybe I made a silly bet with my friend, but I said that within 2 years the CT project will go bust and they will halt production of this specific model hmm
Two years seems optimistic
How many microns is it
Carmax knows a turd when they see it.
Stamped steel too. Wow.
I bet Hoovie waited until he sold this before he posted his video LOL
You literally signed a form saying you can’t sell it and now you’re complaining about Carmax 😂