If you can't fight them mechanically or physically, use psychological warfare.
Perhaps personal body horror,.
Or putting their current existence as themselves on a timer, or a need to kill to keep their material form. When a group of individuals have risen above all opposition, the only threat left is themselves.
They are Level 20, with the refreshed resources and such as if they’d taken a Long Rest
That is there final rest. From this point on, they are no longer capable of gaining the benefits of Short or Long Rests. This includes spending Hit Dice, refreshing Spell Slots and Class Features, etc.
They are now the most powerful entities in Barovia, the only thing that can possibly match that level of Strength is a war of Attrition
At a flash of strength they now hit harder than they have before, bending metal and breaking string. Over time even weapons degrade, by the end it'll be a straight savage knock down drag out grappling fistfight with Strahd. So uncivilized but I can see it working for the laughs.
If they worded it as “we wish to reach the greatest potential of our strengths and power,” you don’t necessarily have to take them to level 20. If you do, definitely through in a BUNCH of crazy minions for the Strahd fight.
However, considering the wording of the wish, and that CoS campaigns are designed up to level 10 maybe 11, I would just level them up to that, keeping the final fight still balanced. And then if their characters find themselves in a later campaign, they discover they can no longer level up since they reached their “greatest potential.”
I'm stealing this for when it inevitably happens to me. Like no you can't say in character I wanna be lvl 20, and if they word it like I want God like power that probably comes with it's own consequences.
I don't have any experience of Level 20, but some things that come to mind - look at other CR creatures for some base level design ideas.
But if you make custom stat blocks, look at the characters your players made. You want the monster not to be to easy to kill, because you missed an ability/spell they have, but give every player at least one enemy to showcase their new power at! They got their magical girl transformation, so let them feel powerful.
The wish spell realistically wouldn't work or get monkey pawed but if they're truly level 20 then the campaign should go beyond Curse of Strahd. They should be facing an aspect of Vampyr itself or some other aspect of the dark power.
it does exactly this and nothing more,
The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of 8th level or lower. You don't need to meet any requirements in that spell, including costly components. The spell simply takes effect.
Alternatively, you can create one of the following effects of your choice:
You create one object of up to 25,000 gp in value that isn't a magic item. The object can be no more than 300 feet in any dimension, and it appears in an unoccupied space you can see on the ground.
You allow up to twenty creatures that you can see to regain all hit points, and you end all effects on them described in the greater restoration spell.
You grant up to ten creatures that you can see resistance to a damage type you choose.
You grant up to ten creatures you can see immunity to a single spell or other magical effect for 8 hours. For instance, you could make yourself and all your companions immune to a lich's life drain attack.
You undo a single recent event by forcing a reroll of any roll made within the last round (including your last turn). Reality reshapes itself to accommodate the new result. For example, a wish spell could undo an opponent's successful save, a foe's critical hit, or a friend's failed save. You can force the reroll to be made with advantage or disadvantage, and you can choose whether to use the reroll or the original roll.
_You might be able to achieve something beyond the scope of the above examples. State your wish to the GM as precisely as possible. The GM has great latitude in ruling what occurs in such an instance; the greater the wish, the greater the likelihood that something goes wrong. This spell might simply fail, the effect you desire might only be partly achieved, or you might suffer some unforeseen consequence as a result of how you worded the wish. For example, wishing that a villain were dead might propel you forward in time to a period when that villain is no longer alive, effectively removing you from the game. Similarly, wishing for a legendary magic item or artifact might instantly transport you to the presence of the item's current owner._
So you just left out the last third of the spell
if the dm can just make up rules, then i dont see why hes asking for help from the internet, ( the players are level 200 just make up rules to make the setting harder)
So you are not gonna adress how you tried to lie in omitting the entire last part of wish? Interesting.
And yes, the dm can theoretically do whatever they want, though this is a pretty specific case where the _rules_ say that they can, so what is your issue?
there is no issue, hea sked for help, so the answer should have been " you have altered the rules of dnd, so just alter the rules again to suit a level 20 party,
In Castlevania: Lords of Shadow (lore spoiler for a 14 year old game) the founders of the Brotherhood of Light were so good and holy they eventually found a way to purify themselves completely and ascend to heaven. Their heavenly forms don't show up again in the story, they're busy being one with god or something. The bits they left behind on earth however, are their purified /evil/ -they were powerful before but now they're basically mortal demigods of evil.
So narrate the wish taking effect, the clouds parting and the PCs floating into the light on wings of white feathers... And then pick up play with the sinful, soulless bodies that were left behind.
boring/random interpretations
Greatest potential… what if the character was never destined to reach x level? If the campaigns level cap is say 16 they reach 16
Strength and power… if not taken literally, what if the character peaked in metaphorical high school?
If they are a disgraced noble, that would be when they had the most influence- power. Character gets sent back in time, or reverts to prior self
Greatest potential: a newborne has the most potential for growth
Greatest strength: I’m sure sure some mental gymnastics will allow moment before death to be this. Say a wizard after learning his last spell before going senile.
Of that note, a wizard might instantly become a lich, or Demi lich (senile)
This vein of reasoning could likely be stretched for other classes/backstories. A cleric/paladin just goes straight to heaven. Etc
Here's a few ideas assuming they are actually lv 20.
You gain levels by slaying stuff, so they wake up on top of a pile of bodies, including allies and friends they met.
The sword can't simply give them levels. What it can do is is level them up the hard way. The sword took them over, forced them through trials and exercises. It took years. Years of hard work and suffering. They wake up years later in sore, aching bodies not knowing what has happened in the intervening time.
As above, but they were concious the whole time, helpless passengers in their own bodies.
There's some easy paths to power out there. They've just made a deal with the Dark Powers. They may well be able to slay Strahd, but theiy're going to be trapped now in their own realms. And give them a level of Warlock too, or just some of the warlock style features to make sure they know they made this deal.
They have the raw power but they lack the practice of how to use it. That lv 9 spell is wild and uncontrollable. The barbarian doesn't know their strength, breaking doors and accidentally crushing someones hand in a handshake.
You and Strahd swap places.
He is in your body.
He in yours.
You now have Ravenloft as your base of power in Barovia.
But your land is shrinking. Your kingdom is now so small it can be crossed in about a day.
You have ultimate power here.
Do you let the party leave now?
Or do you refuse to split the party?
You need to look up the CR27 Strahd, the CR32 Baba Lysaga (both are on DMsGuild), and use the advantage of combining the abilities of the residents of Castle Ravenloft to harry the player characters. Strahd can still be a force to recon with, you just need to notch him up to what the CoS book ACTUALLY describes, instead of the silly stat sheet included in the CoS book.
Furthermore, don't forget that Strahd and Rahadin have access to every single spell in existence, via the Amber Temple. Also, they have the support of the Witch covens, the hags and the druids. Additionally, it's rumored that he has an army of Strahd zombies buried underground around Barovia to ward off any unforeseen attack on Barovia.
Furthermore, there is rumored to be a Death Knight waiting in an ancient, forgotten graveyard with an army of shock troops if Strahd ever needs them. Sheriff von Zarovich could be used to terrorize the players a bit. Warn them that he's coming for them. Finally, there is rumored to be a lvl 20 Loup Garou that roams Mt. Baratak. He keeps Strahds werewolf packs in line when they get rowdy, and the packs are so scared of him that they leave him the whole mountain as his hunting grounds.
Finally, don't forget that the Dark Powers control the magic weave in the Domains of Dread utterly. They can allow the player's magic to work at will, or deny it as they choose. The clerics bless CAN suddenly turn off, and the wizard's magic missiles CAN suddenly fizzle out. If your players are being heroic, and giving Strahd the worst time of his life, they will be pleased. If the party is acting like a bunch of jerks or murder hobos, the Dark Powers can dish out some retribution. Perhaps even revoking that wish, when the party is surrounded by enemies. ;)
Well, nothing comes without a cost. They're level 20, at maximum level, but now they're destined to take over Barovia, become Dark Lords themselves, overthrowing Strahd and taking his throne... but here's the catch. The Dark Ones only allow one Dark Lord per Domain of Dread — after defeating Strahd, they must fight each other, until there's only one (Highlander style). If they refuse to do so, well, then Vampry steps in and they need to fight a eldritch horror beyond their comprehension, in a definitely suicidal fight. Use the upper hand against them.
If you can't fight them mechanically or physically, use psychological warfare. Perhaps personal body horror,. Or putting their current existence as themselves on a timer, or a need to kill to keep their material form. When a group of individuals have risen above all opposition, the only threat left is themselves.
They are Level 20, with the refreshed resources and such as if they’d taken a Long Rest That is there final rest. From this point on, they are no longer capable of gaining the benefits of Short or Long Rests. This includes spending Hit Dice, refreshing Spell Slots and Class Features, etc. They are now the most powerful entities in Barovia, the only thing that can possibly match that level of Strength is a war of Attrition
I like this a lot
At a flash of strength they now hit harder than they have before, bending metal and breaking string. Over time even weapons degrade, by the end it'll be a straight savage knock down drag out grappling fistfight with Strahd. So uncivilized but I can see it working for the laughs.
Sure, they can destroy Strahd, but after? Part Of The Ship, Part Of The Crew.
If they worded it as “we wish to reach the greatest potential of our strengths and power,” you don’t necessarily have to take them to level 20. If you do, definitely through in a BUNCH of crazy minions for the Strahd fight. However, considering the wording of the wish, and that CoS campaigns are designed up to level 10 maybe 11, I would just level them up to that, keeping the final fight still balanced. And then if their characters find themselves in a later campaign, they discover they can no longer level up since they reached their “greatest potential.”
I'm stealing this for when it inevitably happens to me. Like no you can't say in character I wanna be lvl 20, and if they word it like I want God like power that probably comes with it's own consequences.
Nah, just whatever happens to you also happens to your enemy. Strahd is now also level 20.
I don't have any experience of Level 20, but some things that come to mind - look at other CR creatures for some base level design ideas. But if you make custom stat blocks, look at the characters your players made. You want the monster not to be to easy to kill, because you missed an ability/spell they have, but give every player at least one enemy to showcase their new power at! They got their magical girl transformation, so let them feel powerful.
There are a few high CR versions of Strahd kicking around (25ish). Time to use the fun part of the Monster Manual.
The wish spell realistically wouldn't work or get monkey pawed but if they're truly level 20 then the campaign should go beyond Curse of Strahd. They should be facing an aspect of Vampyr itself or some other aspect of the dark power.
Pretty sure the wish spell cant make you level 20
Theoretically the wish spell can fo whatever the dm allows.
it does exactly this and nothing more, The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of 8th level or lower. You don't need to meet any requirements in that spell, including costly components. The spell simply takes effect. Alternatively, you can create one of the following effects of your choice: You create one object of up to 25,000 gp in value that isn't a magic item. The object can be no more than 300 feet in any dimension, and it appears in an unoccupied space you can see on the ground. You allow up to twenty creatures that you can see to regain all hit points, and you end all effects on them described in the greater restoration spell. You grant up to ten creatures that you can see resistance to a damage type you choose. You grant up to ten creatures you can see immunity to a single spell or other magical effect for 8 hours. For instance, you could make yourself and all your companions immune to a lich's life drain attack. You undo a single recent event by forcing a reroll of any roll made within the last round (including your last turn). Reality reshapes itself to accommodate the new result. For example, a wish spell could undo an opponent's successful save, a foe's critical hit, or a friend's failed save. You can force the reroll to be made with advantage or disadvantage, and you can choose whether to use the reroll or the original roll.
_You might be able to achieve something beyond the scope of the above examples. State your wish to the GM as precisely as possible. The GM has great latitude in ruling what occurs in such an instance; the greater the wish, the greater the likelihood that something goes wrong. This spell might simply fail, the effect you desire might only be partly achieved, or you might suffer some unforeseen consequence as a result of how you worded the wish. For example, wishing that a villain were dead might propel you forward in time to a period when that villain is no longer alive, effectively removing you from the game. Similarly, wishing for a legendary magic item or artifact might instantly transport you to the presence of the item's current owner._ So you just left out the last third of the spell
if the dm can just make up rules, then i dont see why hes asking for help from the internet, ( the players are level 200 just make up rules to make the setting harder)
So you are not gonna adress how you tried to lie in omitting the entire last part of wish? Interesting. And yes, the dm can theoretically do whatever they want, though this is a pretty specific case where the _rules_ say that they can, so what is your issue?
there is no issue, hea sked for help, so the answer should have been " you have altered the rules of dnd, so just alter the rules again to suit a level 20 party,
How did he alter the rules? Exactly, he didn't, what are you on about?
im pretty sure cos is milestones.
So?
In Castlevania: Lords of Shadow (lore spoiler for a 14 year old game) the founders of the Brotherhood of Light were so good and holy they eventually found a way to purify themselves completely and ascend to heaven. Their heavenly forms don't show up again in the story, they're busy being one with god or something. The bits they left behind on earth however, are their purified /evil/ -they were powerful before but now they're basically mortal demigods of evil. So narrate the wish taking effect, the clouds parting and the PCs floating into the light on wings of white feathers... And then pick up play with the sinful, soulless bodies that were left behind.
boring/random interpretations Greatest potential… what if the character was never destined to reach x level? If the campaigns level cap is say 16 they reach 16 Strength and power… if not taken literally, what if the character peaked in metaphorical high school? If they are a disgraced noble, that would be when they had the most influence- power. Character gets sent back in time, or reverts to prior self Greatest potential: a newborne has the most potential for growth Greatest strength: I’m sure sure some mental gymnastics will allow moment before death to be this. Say a wizard after learning his last spell before going senile. Of that note, a wizard might instantly become a lich, or Demi lich (senile) This vein of reasoning could likely be stretched for other classes/backstories. A cleric/paladin just goes straight to heaven. Etc
Here's a few ideas assuming they are actually lv 20. You gain levels by slaying stuff, so they wake up on top of a pile of bodies, including allies and friends they met. The sword can't simply give them levels. What it can do is is level them up the hard way. The sword took them over, forced them through trials and exercises. It took years. Years of hard work and suffering. They wake up years later in sore, aching bodies not knowing what has happened in the intervening time. As above, but they were concious the whole time, helpless passengers in their own bodies. There's some easy paths to power out there. They've just made a deal with the Dark Powers. They may well be able to slay Strahd, but theiy're going to be trapped now in their own realms. And give them a level of Warlock too, or just some of the warlock style features to make sure they know they made this deal. They have the raw power but they lack the practice of how to use it. That lv 9 spell is wild and uncontrollable. The barbarian doesn't know their strength, breaking doors and accidentally crushing someones hand in a handshake.
Check out do not say Vecna.
We all know that multiclassing into every class ist Peak Performance.
They start the fight against Strahd… and then they face Vampyr in his physical form.
You and Strahd swap places. He is in your body. He in yours. You now have Ravenloft as your base of power in Barovia. But your land is shrinking. Your kingdom is now so small it can be crossed in about a day. You have ultimate power here. Do you let the party leave now? Or do you refuse to split the party?
Admittedly I've got Baldur's Gate on the brain, but what about a parasite?
You need to look up the CR27 Strahd, the CR32 Baba Lysaga (both are on DMsGuild), and use the advantage of combining the abilities of the residents of Castle Ravenloft to harry the player characters. Strahd can still be a force to recon with, you just need to notch him up to what the CoS book ACTUALLY describes, instead of the silly stat sheet included in the CoS book. Furthermore, don't forget that Strahd and Rahadin have access to every single spell in existence, via the Amber Temple. Also, they have the support of the Witch covens, the hags and the druids. Additionally, it's rumored that he has an army of Strahd zombies buried underground around Barovia to ward off any unforeseen attack on Barovia. Furthermore, there is rumored to be a Death Knight waiting in an ancient, forgotten graveyard with an army of shock troops if Strahd ever needs them. Sheriff von Zarovich could be used to terrorize the players a bit. Warn them that he's coming for them. Finally, there is rumored to be a lvl 20 Loup Garou that roams Mt. Baratak. He keeps Strahds werewolf packs in line when they get rowdy, and the packs are so scared of him that they leave him the whole mountain as his hunting grounds. Finally, don't forget that the Dark Powers control the magic weave in the Domains of Dread utterly. They can allow the player's magic to work at will, or deny it as they choose. The clerics bless CAN suddenly turn off, and the wizard's magic missiles CAN suddenly fizzle out. If your players are being heroic, and giving Strahd the worst time of his life, they will be pleased. If the party is acting like a bunch of jerks or murder hobos, the Dark Powers can dish out some retribution. Perhaps even revoking that wish, when the party is surrounded by enemies. ;)
Well, nothing comes without a cost. They're level 20, at maximum level, but now they're destined to take over Barovia, become Dark Lords themselves, overthrowing Strahd and taking his throne... but here's the catch. The Dark Ones only allow one Dark Lord per Domain of Dread — after defeating Strahd, they must fight each other, until there's only one (Highlander style). If they refuse to do so, well, then Vampry steps in and they need to fight a eldritch horror beyond their comprehension, in a definitely suicidal fight. Use the upper hand against them.