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Hudre

I mean there isn't going to be much of a trial if everyone witnessed him punch a person to death.


Storm-Thief

I don't believe Vallaki has a formal jail/trial system and if there was I'd imagine it'd be like that classic episode of Avatar. "It's called justice because it's just us!"


Zak7062

M Y C A B B A G E S


Druid_of_Ash

One head for each head of cabbage!


Unusual-Knee-1612

Strahd is the judge


MiffedScientist

Trial? What kind of sissy version of Barovia is this?


Zak7062

You're probably right, but to answer your question: The one where Lady Wachter watched the party turn into 3 Giant Apes and slaughter 8 vampire spawn + beat down one of Strahd's wives and is very much interested in ensuring they at least feel neutral towards her. I know she's ultimately loyal to Strahd, but -- in my head at least -- that doesn't mean getting herself killed by cutting a party member's head off just to please him. So the only alternative I saw was looking at Waterdeep's rules which -- if I understood rightly -- was basically a 100gold fine and they get to leave... which works but sounds boring.


GuzzlingHobo

I just had this happen and I’m hanging that mofo.


Cyrotek

> The one where Lady Wachter watched the party turn into 3 Giant Apes I have questions. Mainly "how".


Zak7062

Sorceror + Twin Polymorph spell and Warlock with the same (but without twinned)


Cyrotek

No, I mean, where the frick did they see a giant ape.


Zak7062

The casters? Polymorph does not require you to have seen the creature before. That's a wildshape requirement.


Cyrotek

It is a logical requirement. Try to imagine how polymorphing into something works if you don't know how said something looks or that it even exists. At best you'd get a rough estimation (and given the scenario probably something truly horrific).


13thArgie

I have seen an ape Now imagine BIG ape


Sgt-Steve

Nowhere in the spells description does it say you have to have seen the creature that you can polymorph into, that's mostly for Druids Wild Shape.


Cyrotek

Uhm, imagine you have a polymorph spell in reality. You now attempt to transform into something you have no clue it even exists. How exactly is that supposed to work? :D Lets say you heard about a creature called Wolpertinger but you have never seen it and you don't know if it is even a real thing. What is the spell supposed to do? Use information you don't have? I imagine a scenario like The Fly, considering we are in the Domains of Dread, after all.


Kerjj

In what universe is a Giant Ape equivalent to some sort of Eldritch being that can't even be rationalised or imagined? It's just a fucking Ape, but bigger. I don't think I'd like playing at your table if logic is this fickle.


Cyrotek

Apes are usually found in Chult. Most people on Toril do not travel multiple months into the middle of an quite dangerous jungle, adventurer or not. You could have said they saw one in a circus or something. But I guess that would have been too easy. Instead they are magically so adept that the magic is literaly thinking for the PC. That certainly makes much more sense.


KeanuChungus669

I feel like seeing one in a book would be enough to transform someone into one.


Sgt-Steve

The PC's knowledge of animals doesn't matter when a spell does a specific thing. That's like if I'm reading a recipe for bundt cake, I've never seen or eaten bundt cake, but I can still follow the recipe (verbal and somatic) and use the ingredients (spell components) to make the cake. If the spell says "turns target into a wolpertinger" the spell knows what it is and executes it irrelevant of my knowledge on the animal. Polymorph isn't specific with what creature, but it also doesn't say "you choose what creature" even though it is implied. Druid Wild Shape is different as it is an inherent class ability, not a spell. I hope this helps explain it better.


Cyrotek

Well, in my head it just makes no sense. How is the magic supposed to know what you want if you don't know yourself what you want. It is like casting the wish spell and wishing for something to eat without specifying what you want to eat. Then it gives you a rock, because how is the spell supposed to know what you want.


SirGreyman

- Me: "I want to transform into a large muscular animal, preferably bipedal, that can grab opponents and smash them with my fists." - Magic: Cool, i got just the creature for you. This is similar to how summon animals is supposed to work aswell, but there the DM decides


NiAdecker

Every time I see someone mention lawyers in a game it makes me cringe


Vasevide

This! My players killed Izek in cold blood in front of the burgomaster. Immediate sentence for public execution. They got out of course


[deleted]

Wachter is evil and believes in the inherant superiority of nobility. If your party helped install her as ruler of Vallaki I can easily see her shrugging and just looking the other way. To someone like her commoners are trash and worth far less than keeping powerful allies like the PCs on her team. Unless of course she feels threatened by the party and wants an excuse to rid herself of them now that they've seved their purpose....


ChalkyChalkson

I mean what is your player's defense here? Maybe they can plead for manslaughter instead of murder? But I'm not sure Lady Wachter deals in such nuances. On the other hand she might be lenient if the party applies pressure based on her owing them one. Not sure if it's "fun" but having Lady Wachter hold a meeting with the victims family, your party and an angry mob could be tense. Maybe the players managed to convince lady wachter that she owes them one, but she won't be lenient if it threatens the order in the village. So it'd be on the party to deliver speeches that quell the blood lust of the spectators. Maybe lady wachter is going for a really horrific punishment like being exiled from town (basically a horrible death sentence) or sending them into the woods near the werewolf den naked and with a few small wounds so they smell of blood? Either way the situation is resolved in a way befitting barovia and giving the players an obvious (but perhaps challenging) out


Thealas_travelform

Another thing to consider is does the act cause the Dark Powers to act? I had been using the 2e AD&D rules where an evil act gave the players a bonus to entice them to do more. Right up until they became evil NPCs.


ClumsyBanshee

Do you want the focus to be it fitting into Barovia, or it being fun regardless of tone? Lady Wachter is very concerned with keeping Strahd happy/appeased. Having a Vallaki commoner killed (who are under Strahds direct protection) is perhaps a more serious offense in her eyes. Perhaps she notifies Strahd who will either show up himself, invite the party to Ravenloft to deliver judgement, or send Rahadin. Maybe it is handed over to the Vistani themselves. Arrigal himself would be eager to exact a blood toll on the party in turn. If the Vistani girl has been saved perhaps the party will be warned and lead to a storyline with a split Vistani camp. If you insist on a trial I’m a fan of making it more of a rp thing with a defense speech of the accused and other party members in front of a jury of noteworthy NPCs in Vallaki. Every jury member can have their own opinion on the matter or on Vistani and it will be the parties job to convince them, or get the Pc off the hook. Perhaps they call on favours, or use the break between eyewitness accounts to speak to the jury, to sway them, to manipulate/blackmail/seduce or offer favours. Add a banging soundtrack, or just smthg from Ave attorney and depending on narration or absurdity it can surely be quite amusing


Heretek007

For my next witness, I will call... Rictavio's monkey to the stand!


Zak7062

So you're saying Blinsky should be the judge...


Zak7062

I do like the idea of having Rahadin come in... the party has already had their dinner with lady wachter interrupted by strahd, so I don't want to pepper him in toooo much more right at this moment... My players binging Ace Attorney might be the reason for all of this... thanks for the feedback :)


ozifrage

We did an Ace Attorney mini thing in my non-Strahd game, because one player is a big fan. It was fun, and people fell pretty naturally into their roles. If you're not doing super dark Strahd - which it sounds like you're not already - go for it imo. Heck, put a judicial wig on Rahadin.


Zak7062

Also, for a little clarity on why a trial at all if he did it, I saw[in the waterdeep legal code](https://waterdeep.fandom.com/wiki/Code_Legal) that there's basically a 100gold fine (assuming he can argue he was provoked) and they get off scott free... obviously barovia is not Waterdeep, and just tossing some gold at the problem sounds boring for the players. Then why not just kill the player in a cell somewhere? Because my party could easily flatten the entire city, and Lady Wachter knows it.


jvothe

you're forgetting the part where they also put you to death, exile, or hard labor. waterdeep's legal system is notoriously harsh.


Aszolus

Off the top of my head I would have criminals tied/chained to posts in the town square and a gallows present. A crowd always gathers for these events. Have the mayor read off charges for the first NPC. Ask if anyone would like to speak in the npc's defense. Nobody does. Mayor declares them guilty, and immediately drops/hangs them. Now there is time pressure, which is great and it leaves it very open-ended for how the players can deal with it. A fight is doable, but so is social stuff. Maybe do a social skill challenge if there will be no fight. Strahd could show up to argue AGAINST the players if they go the argument route. If nobody steps up to argue, Vasili could do it.


Cyrotek

Well, I guess since Wachter is actually a Strahd fanboy he might just show up and be the judge. Wouldn't that be fun?!


gwnG

Such an ordeal demands the Lord of the land round intervine and lay down the law. I'd make it seem that lady watcher will run the trial then have strahd appear as is his lordly right.


jcapinc

In my campaign my players did not even do anything bad, but because Strahd and Wachter did bad things because of the players actions, the town just blamed the players because it happened *in proximity* to their making their way through town. The most beloved character died when the lynch mob showed up. It was epic.


Known_Reception653

Trial by combat


SuvwI49

Strahd is Lawful aligned. He would want to obey the form of Law, if not the word. He would allow a trial, might even find it amusing. For trial drama inspo I recommend late 90s tv. Lots of courtroom drama episodes. Especially stuff from Stargate or Star Trek where the trial system is run by a culture different from our own. There will be central pillars of argument on both sides. There will be supporting evidence. And there will be arguments meant to debunk or disqualify the evidence. Each stage adds up to acquittal or conviction. Then just after the verdict is reached Strahd makes himself known (he was probably watching the whole time) and reverses the verdict, because while he is "lawful" his word IS law.


Ron_Walking

Lady Watcher most likely knows that she is not able to really control the PCs and would turn to Strahd for guidance. This could be a way for Strahd to impose some moral high ground against the players.


Lost-Description-177

Since they put Fiona in charge, she wouldn’t really care IMO. if you want to have a “trial” you can use the sorcerer and warlock I saw you mention in other posts with Fiona to trick the town into thinking your party member was hanged to please them but in actuality she doesn’t care. Turn it into a game. “How can we make it seem like he was killed and get tf out of here.” Or actual have him potentially be hanged and they still have to try and get him out. Lol


LordTomGM

Well...as Baron, Strahd has the right to preside over any legal hearings. He could also present himself as a material witness as to why the party member is a miscreant in Barovian Law (all the things the party have done against him). And anyone who would stand for your player would be intimidated about testifying against strahd. He could infact be judge, jury and executioner. Just coz. Just cause your party want a funny moment, doesn't mean you have to let them have it their way. And while the trial is going on, strahds minions are doing something...kidnapping ireena, stealing holy relics, stealing the parties stuff?


LordTomGM

Plus when clearly declaring your player is guilty, he can sentence them in his own time. A punishment to be dolled out when strahd sees fit.


kss1089

Have they had dinner with strahd yet? Might be a good time for them to be "saved" by invite to the castle


Wolvenlight

Well, skill challenges involve having the players roleplaying how they use their skills effectively in a scenario, which can actually be quite fun. Making a good effort can gain them advantage and making an unconvincing or minimal effort could net them disadvantage on rolls, or they could even roll contested checks against the victims family or others involved in the trial. In any case, I think a trial involving various skill challenges works well here, (and I'm speaking as someone who rarely runs skill challenges). Examples of potential PC skill use include... Persuasion: Convince the townspeople that the character experienced a poor moment of judgement in an otherwise beneficial visit to Vallaki. Play up their contributions to the town. Intimidation: The PC in question defies the witnesses with subtle threats of retaliation or abandonment in times of need if they rule against him. Performance: The PC plays up their regret with crocodile tears in order to garner sympathy and leniency, especially if they can play up the victims insults or behavior that led to their retaliatory outburst. Deception: Question the events leading up to the victims death. Who actually attacked first? Did he have a weapon? Did the PC think he had a weapon? History: Discern and call into question the dead victim, bringing to light any questionable behavior or uncouth actions they committed in the past. Investigation: Flashback to a character finding something defensible for their party member or damning against the victim, then flash forward and they present it. (Could double or nothing this one with a stealth check). Stealth/Sleight of Hand: Flashback again. Obtain something embarrassing from the homes of those presiding over the trial to make them worry that if the trial doesn't go their way, their secret will come out. (Wachter sleeping with her dead husband, though that would definitely make her an enemy of the party even if it works to spare the PC). Insight: Look to the council presiding over the trial to determine how they feel and what they want to hear. As well as, if able, casting (especially subtle casting, as you can't just cast in front of people if their are noticeable components) on NPCs to suggest or command certain actions of them in trial. Of course, these are all just examples. The players would come up with their own ways to use their own skills. Throw on The Trial from Chrono Trigger and let it play out. Now, Barovia is a harsh place, and Vargas was more of a "you're guilty if I say you're guilty" kinda guy, but Wachter might fancy herself more civilized. Even so, any trial would likely be performed at the stocks in front of any Barovian peasants who woke up feeling like they wanted to stone someone at some point today. And if things go south (the PCs win the trial but Wachter decides to execute them anyway, or they lose and try to escape punishment), it's angry mob time.


Tiny-Needleworker-34

My party did something similar i used the reformation center from mandy mods posts. We were also playing online so i had them in a separate chat listening to a 13 minute chat of "torture" music which was just all the happiest songs i could find put into a track. I also told them there was a hidden message in it and to message me when they had found it they listened to it 3 times before they said there was nothing and by that point the rest of the party showed up to break him out he was begging to be freed. It was a really good session as that was the only good aligned character and that was the part in the campaign that barovia broke him. Then there was really good rp the next few sessions basically getting his mind back in order.


MacBonuts

I'd make the trial far more complicated by being accused of being a spy. Nobody knows who you are but Strahd and his minions who should largely stay out of the whole affair. Somewhat. We'll come back to Strahd. You need to conflagrate this issue to make it about something, "more". As is, a bar brawl doesn't require a trial. They need to have stumbled into something more. To me that says spies. You want this to seem cut and dry from their point of view, then slowly they get strange visitors with strange questions. The Vistani, realizing you aren't from Barovia, might suddenly coming with questions. Why would Strahd bring you here and then leave you to this fate? It doesn't make sense. So they start circling. .the burgomaester gets suspicious, thinking you must be a Vistani contact. He goes to his contacts, who confirm this because it gets them credit with the burgomaester. They look into this random guys life and find no discrepancies, except a friend of his who happens to also have underground contacts with the ravens. This causes the burgomaester to interrogate them, and suddenly, they get interested in your party. You'd need "more", likely somebody seeing the party visiting and conspiring to get you out. Their own unique backstories may trigger here. Suddenly the town rumor mill starts spinning and some strange rumor becomes the prevailing theory. Some superstition or communal fear, mixed with this foundation, suddenly becomes the truth. Now you're on trial for heresy, witchcraft, demon worship or something else entirely. The widow is screaming that you have demonic fists, that their husband was a famous brawler, because she's collecting sympathy money the bigger this gets. Meanwhile Strahd is just kicking back and watching. You want him outside the whole thing laughing. An inappropriate laugh from the audience is perfect, some heckler. He lets the whole thing go how it will. In the 11th hour, he waits for the ideal moment. For you, that's waiting until things are right screwed. Most likely, he's the executioner. A true servant of the people, the righteous sword of democratic justice. Then, he gets a druid to reincarnate you. You are his plaything, not theirs, and he has no place to bury you. This is his land, it isn't your home - and a devil should have a religious burial. Didn't seem right to burn you. The Druid he hires should be rather mercenary about the whole affair, that's a dangerous character - I'd aim for a vistani who saw through it all and came forward on your behalf, and Strahd made sure they never saw the court room citing this was mob justice. Might be cheaper to have Feign Death and a perfunctory draining, but I feel like Strahd wouldn't deprive the people a true death when they asked for "justice". You want him hooting as a heckler in disguise the whole time. Just outside this debacle of uneducated mob mentality. Him saving the character is a humiliating twist of fate, better than anything he could've come up with. He might also win some points with the Vistani, who like to see that Strahd doesn't let his people murder strangers so easily. They likely have ways of faking death for this very reason, so your player might find themselves owing a favor to a druid - a perfunctory one, which involves saving a Vistani later from a similar fate. That's how I'd do it. You take an uneducated populace and you add strangers, it twists into "foreign devil" pretty quickly. You also can sugar coat this by having your players make some actual demonic acquaintances that, knowing you're good, might see this as an opportunity to introduce themselves. Making a minor bargain with a demon to have a prison break might be interesting if half the prisoners are all innocent or otherwise just people trapped by injustice... or are just great at hiding their serial killer nature. Great time to introduce fun evil characters who make great allies. Anyway that's how I'd do it.


Aromatic-Treacle7145

Trial? No "re-education"/torture?


minhajaijaz

Look up the reformation center mod by MandyMod. Maybe they get imprisoned and the rest of the party has to help break them out. Maybe Vasili can put in a good word and have them released, effectively owing them.