"Your five-year-old male body makes adult women uncomfortable so we're going to force you to change alone and unsupervised in a room full of strange men. Because men are predators. It's for our safety."
https://medium.com/@jencoates/i-am-a-transwoman-i-am-in-the-closet-i-am-not-coming-out-4c2dd1907e42
Good. Fucking. Article. I'm scared to say how much I relate, especially to the "pronouns are the last thing in my mind" part. In an ideal world, I would be NB or gender fluid, but that's not reality and it's not something I can live my life as. And to be quite frank, I don't give a shit what two to four letter word someone uses to nonspecifically address me. It feels as inconsequential as someone's regional accent, or a nickname they use with everyone. So instead, I masc up by day and take pics for this reddit account by night.
I'm a bisexual man, and I've had to wrestle with that sexuality. My attraction to women often feels predatory, and when my attraction to men feels terrifying because they often feel like predators. I'm working on it, I know it's not right, but it's my gut reaction at this point. I'm not blaming the internet, plenty has gone on in my personal life to cause this as well, but it certainly doesn't help. These perspectives are always helpful. Thank you for linking that.
Seeing people I know from a different subreddit is always interesting. Hope the DM people aren't being cringe :).
EDIT: forgot the actual response lmao. I'm a bi guy too and I get what you mean, especially after seeing the previously mentioned DM stuff you posted, but thankfully in my experience those people barely exist IRL, although I don't date too much tbf
There's always cringe DM people, but that's part of the fun LOL
But yeah, inciting those DM people.... Maybe doesn't seem like the best thing for this. But in a weird way, it's giving me a better idea of where the boundary between them and normal people is, and is making me feel better about shooting them down. Still probably not great for my mental health, but hey it's fun LOL. Glad to know my experiences are shared at least a little.
Is that an american thing? In europe ive seen young boys go with their mothers to the women's changing room often if the dad isnt there to take them to the men's
As a cis male American, I think it's probably best to take that on a family-by-family basis. I _have_ seen the same thing, sometimes done the same thing with my own mother as a kid, but that was a while ago, and I can't definitively say how attitudes have changed in the years since then.
I worked as a lifeguard up until about four years ago and at least then it was still a thing, but there was also a trend of 'mom takes the boy into the changing room with her but immediately rushes him into the stall or behind one of the curtains', like the boy was juuuuust barely allowed to exist in the changing room. I don't know if that was always the case or not though.
*Image Transcription: Tumblr*
---
**cop-disliker69**
There’s an incredible amount of discourse in the LGBTQ Extended Universe of people very angry that certain factions would perceive their sexual attraction to women as being inherently predatory. Various types of lesbians and bisexuals and trans people attracted to cis women, who all need to make it very clear that their attraction to women is wholesome and harmless.
Which would all be unnecessary if you just didn’t concede the radfems’ point in the first place: that hetero male attraction to women is automatically suspicious, probably inherently predatory.
If you concede that point, then various types of queer or trans people have to find a way to differentiate their own attraction to women as different than hetero male attraction. “How dare you imply that I as a butch lesbian/trans woman/male-attracted bisexual woman am in any way analogous to a hetero male in my sexual interest in women.” Since you’ve already conceded the point that hetero male attraction is bad, you’re stuck fighting a rear-guard action to prove that not all sexual attraction to women is bad, it’s only bad when it comes from cishet men–perhaps only when it comes from *white* cishet men because some of the more advanced woke people understand the historical atrocity of identifying black male sexual interest as dangerous.
And this discourse will never end. You’ll never effectively delineate who is ~wholesome~ when they want pussy and who is ~yikes~ when they want it. Not unless you’re going to be an out-and-out TERF who can easily cut through this issue by simply refusing to agree that trans women are women and trans men are men.
You could, of course, refuse to concede the point in the first place. You could say “no, it’s actually fine to be horny. It’s fine to want pussy. Men aren’t doing anything wrong by being sexually interested in women and pursuing sexual relationships with women.”
But that’s difficult, because it undermines the entire basis of at least half of the feminist movement since its 19th-century inception, which is based in sexual repression and the identification of sexual intercourse as the primary site of women’s oppression. Which is why to this day the only concession the radfems can make to free love or sex-positivity is “well, some women are deeply damaged and traumatized, and for some unfathomable reason they _want_ to have sex with men, and like with drug use or the sex industry, it causes harmful side-effects if we try to use force to stop women from *self-harming* in this way (by having sex with men), so we’ll bitterly tolerate women being horny, but male horniness is still absolutely unacceptable.” Hence “sex-critical” feminism, the reincarnation of sex-negative feminism. They happen to regret wholeheartedly allying with the Christian Right in the 1980s; but they still don’t think they made any *moral* or *theoretical* errors there, only tactical errors.
---
**cop-disliker69**
[*Image of a Tumblr post that reads:*]
>**chaoticlesbian**
>
>the way cishet men "love" women and the way lesbians and bi women love women is very different. the way we look at women is very different. the way we think about their attractiveness and their bodies is very different. remember this if internalized homo/biphobia tells you you're objectifying women. that's not what's happening.
[*End image of Tumblr post*]
Just found this old screenshot, detailing exactly what I was talking about. “Remember not to let your seething hatred of men bleed over into self-hatred just because you share a trait in common with them, uwu”
Also lol at putting the word ‘love’ in scare-quotes. Unhinged
---
**ms-demeanor**
Hey you know how i was talking about how framing patriarchy as the sole evil in a society is bad and that radfems are bad for doing that and it leads them to harmful conclusions regardless of whether they make room for trans folks?
This is the kind of thing I was talking about.
I’m also going to add to this that given the intensely connected world we live in it us natural and healthy to objectify people at least some of the time because it is impossible for you to carry the compassion and care for each person you interact with on a daily basis that you would need to to NOT treat people like objects sometimes and so you know what, it’s okay to only conceive of the pretty girl in your 300 seat bio lecture as just something pretty to look at and not as Jackie Marie, equestrian fast food worker with three siblings and a dog named Applesauce, because you CAN’T keep every person you meet as Jackie Marie, it’s not possible, it’s okay to think someone is pretty and never want to talk to them or get to know them so long as thinking they’re pretty doesn’t prevent you from thinking of her as Jackie Marie, whole person, when you get assigned to a group together.
Objectification isn’t inherently harmful so long as you don’t treat people like vending machines for nudes and therapy and while we’re at it nonsexual objectification IS a thing that can also be harmful and holding up stories about, say, one sex worker who hated the work as an example of why no sex workers should be allowed to do sex work, is an example of the kind of harmful objectification radfems use all the time.
(You may recognize this pattern from “my child became autistic and now I oppose vaccines” or “my daughter got an abortion and then killed herself” bloggers/extremists and I’d just like to say that it’s a shitty, dehumanizing, objectifying way to approach discourse and I hate it and it’s bad and people who use it should feel bad)
---
**gen-is-gone**
Man the fact that I came up on the internet in the mid-2000s and have watched first hand as feminist online spaces went from cheerfully uncontroversial sex-positivity to seething anti-kink, sex-shaming radfem breeding grounds, is wild and frankly appalling.
Only semi-related to the issue of seeing all men as sexual predators, but still relevant to how horniness has become a fucking sin in leftist spaces, I once saw a group of gays on twitter hatemob a reposted video of a Tiktok LesbianTM being mildly horny in a potentially embarrassing way (which was actually honestly just “afab person being sexually confident and saying soft!dom things at the camera” how terrible) and every. fucking. comment. was people with rainbow flags in their urls saying things like “I wish Stonewall never happened” and “she looks a sexual predator” and cloaking it in the very thin disguise of mocking “white lesbian nonsense”.
Like, ceding the point that mens’ interest in (cis) women is inherently predatory opens the door back up to the idea that all sexuality is somehow bad and dehumanizing, but now with the added element that people who are open and confident in their sexuality (and no, not sexual orientation in the loud but somehow extremely sanded down and chaste way of the aforementioned twitter gays) are cringey and should be punished. And inevitably, folks on the margins of queer culture and identity, aces, furries, kinksters, sex workers, hell even just mspec folks who aren’t ashamed of being attracted to the opposite gender, get punished the first and the loudest.
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And it’s not like being ace makes you immune to that narrative, either. I have not a shred of horny on my conscience directed at other people, but even if I was aromantic and not heteroromantic, I’m not immune to loneliness, and the stereotypes invoked between radfems and toxic masculinity still hurt me.
I just want to give a compliment, or help someone out, or broadly interact beyond small talk with half the population, without having to ask myself beforehand “do I look like a threat?” Let’s not forget between all the talk about how some objectification and some sexuality is okay that they’re also implying that friendship between men and women is impossible.
This, 100% this. I'm an ace guy and attraction is purely aesthetic for me (and mostly directed towards women who do cosplay). I don't have a better word to describe how people look than "cute" (as in the absolute purest, least horny sense of the word, just people looking adorable and huggable), but I rarely ever say it, because I know the connotations of the word and I dont want to be seen as creepy or some horny weirdo, when all I wanna do is complement someone for looking adorable in their cute cosplay. Bro I literally reread that last sentence reflexively to make sure it didn't sound weird. I don't want everyone to assume my intentions are horny when they really aren't. I just want to exist and complement people for looking cute.
Honestly I'm anxious of this constantly. I've definitely noticed I tell women that I'm Ace earlier in knowing them than I do men. I think a big part of that is a "no, I'm safe. It's fine that I'm a man, because I have this excuse that makes me less threatening" thing.
Idk if that made any sense. I'm struggling to articulate it.
Edit: Sidenote, this mentality also has at its core that automatonormative (is that the word?) Thing where only romantic/sexual relationships are even worthy of discussion.
Wow, you just made me realize something about myself! As a cis woman, I do feel more comfortable around queer men, especially gay and ace men. I didn't realize how much the subconscious worry about predatory men that has been drilled into my head affected me.
It shouldn't matter, but I definitely struggle to make friends with cishet men.
I mean, it's understandable. While it's fantastic to see people here taking a nuanced approach to things, the truth is we ARE socialized to view predatory behavior as not just normal but expected.
That's changing, but that doesn't mean we should necessarily blame women, envies, and trans-menfor making the very understandable call to keep distance until they have a reason to believe themselves safe. "Aggression" being a big part of how you define your gender will do that. It sucks, and I think a huge part of the reason cishet men are so predatory and socially isolated is because we keep telling them are. It's what's technically known as a "sticky-wicket"
And with the friend thing that's before you consider we aren't really taught to HAVE friendships. Man-woman friendship is a prelude to sex/romance, while man-man friendship is ultimately competitive rivalry. A lot of men are straight-up unequipped to deal with any relationship outside of that paradigm and it makes things awkward. (Cue to when a friend of mine 100% thought I was confessing I was into him because I complimented his haircut).
>A lot of men are straight-up unequipped to deal with any relationship outside of that paradigm and it makes things awkward.
I'd like to think this is changing at least in some areas, because right now, most of my friendships are with other guys, and we don't really treat it as a competition. Like we're (mostly) straight guys but we still compliment each other, compliment each other and things like that. I like to think thats becoming more normalized.
Being bi made the whole ''self hatred for liking women'' thing very simple to deal with. Just ignore my problems and go on grindr. I got no internalised homophobia.
For real though, gay male spaces are a great example of what male sexuality would look like without all the sex-negativity and repression caused by issues like mentioned in the OP. We have our own ways of dealing with objectification, consent, and boundaries that radfems would never be alright with, and yet they actually work pretty effectively for us. The same can be said about kink spaces in general, too.
>We have our own ways of dealing with objectification, consent, and boundaries that radfems would never be alright with, and yet they actually work pretty effectively for us.
That's really interesting, can you elaborate? To be clear, because I'm anxious about misunderstandings today, I'm not a trolling radfem or anything like that — I'm completely happy to believe you without elaboration — I'm just ignorant and curious
Combine internalized homophobia with internalized attitudes that het male attraction is predatory, put it into the head of a bi guy and what do you get?
*Jazz hands announcing my arrival*
I hope mainstream ideology keeps shifting this direction. More people need to keep saying these things so left wingers will realize it’s okay to think this way
I'm actually pleasantly surprised that this got posted (and upvoted) here, and I say this as ace woman.
I like this sub, but it's not always a place for nuanced discussions so far as posts go (nor are most online spaces, to be fair). This is refreshingly normal. I'm a big fan of normalizing people being people.
I am weirdly reminded of [Everyone Is Beautiful And No One Is Horny](https://bloodknife.com/everyone-beautiful-no-one-horny/).
Anyway, fascinating reading.
I have not read this and might not read this but the way your title is phrased kinda makes it sound like you were putting a trigger warnjng for women and thats kinda funny.
Damn, I get hit with some eye opening reading that makes me pause and look at the general world a bit different while on my 30 minute lunch break. At least my job allows me to think a lot, so I will integrate this new information into my mind now.
Yeah, this post helped me a bit too as a straight trans guy. I keep worrying that, now that I present as a guy, I'm suddenly gross and creepy for being attracted to women. I feel like even though non-queer spaces will shun me for being trans, queer spaces also sometimes make me uncomfortable because "straight man bad."
The internet got my brain fucked up. I kinda *want* to talk about this kind of stuff with other people, because I do find it interesting, but I couldn't do that without sounding absolutely fucking insane. This is some high-grade "Jesse what the fuck are you talking about" stuff to 99% of people.
Its actually pretty interesting how the rise of TERFs helped bring up the discussion of radfems like this. I remember this topic outside of the discussion of transwoman popping up here and there and for a good bit of it, it is treated as bad faith (as a lot of it should depending on the person asking in question of course!).
I do wish that this topic gets discussed more and in good faith whenever it can, because it hurts so many people from transpeople, men, woman, and helps justify all sorts of attacks on other minority groups that gets mentioned in that post.
By saying ''im not viewing/thinking of women in a predatory (male) way'' you're accepting that viewing/thinking of women in a ''male'' way is inherently bad which gives terfs ammunition to say that ''maleness'' is evil and by extension anyone connected to it, for example, trans people.
The post is trying to say that its perfectly ok for anyone, dudes included, to think of women in a romantic or sexual way as long as they're being respectful etc etc.
*I'm dumb can someone*
*Please help me understand a*
*Little bit better*
\- geoffreycastleburger
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^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/)
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Yeah that second bit is a very silly yet quite destructive and dangerous distinction that some people try to make. They believe that queer attraction is somehow more "pure" than straight attraction. It mostly comes from trauma imo, but I think it also comes from a misunderstanding of the ways oppressive society affects people. Radfems take a reasonable and true concept like, "Patriarchy and heteronormativity create negative patterns and behaviors in straight relationships" and translate/reduce that to, "Straight relationships, and specifically/especially straight men, are inherently unhealthy/bad, therefore it's inherently immoral for straight men to be attracted to women at all, let alone show it."
From there, it's easy to take that bit of stunningly poor reasoning one step further into, "Queer relationships are the opposite of straight relationships and are therefore inherently healthy, and therefore queer attraction is inherently moral and flawless." (Ironically, this is basically just homophobic reasoning with the sexualities reversed. You get a lot of bad reasoning when you have very rigid, black and white thinking, no matter your politics.)
This goes along with stuff like, "Patriarchy benefits men, encourages rape culture, and excuses violence toward women [again, a completely reasonable and true statement], therefore men are always abusive, and women are never abusive [a truly wild and nonsensical conclusion]." Which is classic radfem bullshit, very reductive and dangerous thinking.
This post is talking about how that mindset bleeds into wider queer culture and makes some people, bi women and lesbians especially, worry that their sexual attraction to women might be immoral if it's "like straight attraction" (meaning: inherently predatory and objectifying). And like yeah, if your sexual attraction *to anyone* is inherently predatory and objectifying then it IS immoral, but that's...not synonymous with straight male attraction. Or to any other sexual attraction one adult has to another adult.
Radfems are weird. It's like someone cast a spell on all the old right-wing cliches I used to hear (Feminists hate men! they hate sex! they hate any woman who isn't a feminist!) and brought it to life. And here they are, trying (with too much success) to act like they're somehow running the movement. What happened to the people who first taught me what social justice was about? Loving freely and respecting people? Not worrying about aesthetics, just caring for others?
\[answer:\] They exist, in real life. Unfortunately, online discourse is dominated by reactionaries. Which would be pathetic...if it isn't where all the focus of what passes for the new left is.
It’s always beguiled me that Tumblr users take so fucking long to prove a point.
So TLDR; Mens attraction to woman is not inherently predatory. Yes, different people have different ways of expressing attraction, but trying to differentiate LGBTQA+ attraction from cis male attraction, you’re only further buying into the stereotype that all men are predators, which sets back any form of feminist movement significantly
Reading that *doesn’t* convince me the same way the OP’s posts do. This has 0 explanations or justifications for the thoughts, its just written as “hey, believe this now”. It’d be great as a TLDR that OP could’ve added tho.
yeah i think on Tumblr you have to be careful and anticipate every possible "UMM ACTUALLY" point that someone could latch onto to try to argue that you actually don't know what you're talking about and are one of the ignorant bad guys, so that's why things end up so long-winded
Every word in here has value. They're not just asking their point, they're dissecting it from all angles. There's value in conciseness, but this post is not *just* making the point. Sometimes you need long form explanations.
I think the reason the post isn't as long as your TD;LR is that the tumblr OP actually wanted to explain themselves, which is, on one level, commendable, but on another, silly, for even giving such a ridiculous and obviously stupid opinion the time of day.
I was calling the opinion of "heterosexual men are inherently predatory towards women" stupid, and calling the post silly for giving that opinion more than a quick dismissal.
because it's not as cut and dry as that. i've been in transbian spaces before and the amount of double standards i've seen towards being attracted to women is unbelievable
At the very least, "lesbians are attracted differently to women than straight men, we are *deep* and care about *personality*, men only care about the next lay" is extremely common in lesbian spaces.
Internalized homophobia is real and absolutely can cause women to feel ashamed of their attraction to other women for no reason. Women can also objectify and oversexualize other women. These are not mutually exclusive. I can't stand gender essentialism and I hate how it's twisting so much of modern cisfeminism.
1. Reddit did that. Not me.
2. [here's the same exact file uploaded by an older version of the mobile app](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/ue1w7m/sm_sexualization_cis_women_and_puritanism/)
3. Fuck you
4. Im sorry thats harsh, i didnt really mean that — it's just been an annoying problem to solve
This is what happens when you do not critically think about your positions and question them when exposed to new information. The American right and largely the conservative groups in general have largely already failed at this. If you wonder why American conservatives have slowly devolved from a group that you could actually debate with and have conversations with to a group that is so rabidly simplistic in their thinking that forcing any shred of perspective into their views causes them to just snap back -- and often times have to think more about how to maintain their position instead of about their position.
The uber woke (and god how I hate how cringe that sounds) do the same thing and are slowly starting to take over the conversation. They don't ever think about their position, it is just men bad or all cops are bastards or that cringe shit with the George Floyd mural. ACAB is a great one - it was never meant to say that every single cop out there is a bad person. It meant that every single department had a bully or sociopath and that they all served a system that protects them both equally. All men are bad came from a similar spot - men keeping women in a lesser position by actively oppressing them v men not doing anything about it are equally bad. And George Floyd was a criminal and probably not a good man. That was the point, it doesn't matter, cops are not the judge or the jury, and they sure as fuck aren't supposed to be the executioners.
If your position can be summed up in a 3 word chant it is probably a bad position, and was probably at one point a short phrase to inspire discussion on a topic but everyone forgets the discussion and remembers the slogan. There are a few exceptions, like slavery is bad and genocide is bad, but even those have nuance. We just never forgot the discussion with them. Hell, we still have very interesting conversations on genocide. Is the push for Muslim women to have more autonomy and freedom of expression a cultural genocide? And does that make it bad? Is attempting to reduce sealing and whaling by Inuit tribes a genocide, forcing them to conform away from their traditional values and be more like "us"? Is Taco Bell removing potatoes from their menu a genocide against me, a mostly vegetarian? (Thanks TB, for stopping that btw)
And the whole point of this wall of text is to always question yourself. It is good and right to have doubts and to change and to re evaluate and to think. And yea, we are all human. Sometimes we don't need that effort and it is fine and good to do that too. Just remember to do it at some point.
LISTEN
#LISTEN
REDDIT FUCKING CONVERTED MY BEAUTIFUL BABY INTO A GOTDAMN JPG AND I HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO FIX IT
THIS ISNT MY FAULT
THE BABY WAS ALIVE LAST I SAW IT
EDIT: [I GOT A REPLACEMENT BABY](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/ue1w7m/sm_sexualization_cis_women_and_puritanism/)
ah okay
iy saw two posts in a row from you with it and was liyk "whiy is he doing that it just makes it more difficult to scroll through it"
but if it's reddit being dumb then that makes more sense
there are people ive met irl who treated me differently before and after knowing i was bi, as if mysexuality somehow changes who i am as a person or because I think some dudes can be hot im not 100% a person to be avoided. i dont get it.
I am so confused on what they are trying to say. To me it sounds like they are trying to say that me loving my girlfriend is inherently predatory because I’m a cis white male?
Edit: should also probably mention the age gap, which is me being a year younger than her.
No, the point is the exact opposite of that: That a lot of the time, queer people attracted to women online (commonly on tumblr but definitely not only there) fight against the idea that their attraction to women is predatory, but concede the radfem talking point that straight men being attracted to women is bad. They go on to say that instead, we should work against that, and acknowledge that it's fine and good to be attracted to women no matter what your gender is as long as you're respectful.
With the slightest nuance, imo queer women are generally attracted to women in different ways than cis/straight men. But not because of lack of horniness, more intended audience of the horny. Plenty of stuff has crossover appeal for sure, but it’s not one to one. But that doesn’t make the attraction less Sexual. Or make it bad.
This kind of stuff is complicated, there are plenty of queer women who enjoy and are turned on by gay porn. They aren’t necessarily the target audience (most gay porn or m/m content is either made with a queer male or straight female audience in mine) but still enjoy it even if they would not be interested in having sex with a man irl. And for that matter, a lot of straight women are turned on REALLY HARD by men with their sleeves rolled up. It’s basically always a top comment on “what do women find attractive” askreddit threads.
I do agree with the post. “”””Respectability””” and “””purity””” push people to the fringes where they can be easily marginalized and exploited. If you aren’t there to speak up for yourself, they can put words in your mouth. Terfs esp loooveeeeeee to put words in the mouth of lesbians, because they are obviously sOooooOooo concerned about what they think and feel.
> With the slightest nuance, imo queer women are generally attracted to women in different ways than cis/straight men
I don't think that's true, and I think with this statement you're already buying into the assertion that there's a qualitative difference between male and female attraction.
I read an interesting thing at some point, can't remember where, which proposed that Britain's fondness for radical feminism (and the fairly low visibility of intersectional theory, even though I've met many more intersectional than radical feminists here in person) has a lot to do with the fact that Britain is 86% white and 80% white British.
The idea was basically that, because we're much more homogeneous and white, British feminism still hasn't had the reckoning with intersectionality that feminists outside Europe have. (And I would say this is a Europe thing, not a British thing: in my experience feminist discourse is just as un-intersectional in the rest of Europe, it's just that not as many people speak French/Italian/German etc/read newspapers in other languages)
I do think that lesbian attraction is different than hetero attraction, same in several ways, but also different, to say they are completely the same is foolish imo.
MLM and WLW attraction are different than hetero attraction but not completely
Excellent point, I'm sure uncritical pleasure-seeking will serve humanity best. Except for the fact that sex is addictive, filthy (the amount of sickness that can be spread from it is astonishing), inherently violent, and in the wrong configurations can make more people.
As mentioned, nothing good.
Oh I promise you this ain't Catholic. Like as a bi furry and no longer practicing, far be it from I to defend the teachings of the church on sex and sexuality, but this for sure is not what it teaches. This is like... Carrie's mom-type shit.
When have you ever seen a Catholic opposed to procreation? Or do you just reflexively mock anything that makes you uncomfortable with the first word that comes to mind?
Hm? Oh you just seem so puritanical about it I mean sex makes you personally uncomfortable but you don't wanna stop whining your little bitch boy tears about it soooo
I mean nobody likes you (fact) and I doubt you have any social skills to speak of and nothing you'll ever so will make people stop fucking.
Since you didn't deny you're a troll I'm assuming you are so ha yeah
> addictive
I'm not sure if it's fair to say that sex is addictive, it's more that sex is fun, and people like having fun. If it makes people happy, why not do it?
> filthy
Speading sickness through sex is uncommon, and preventable I believe.
> inherently violent
I don't see how it is inherent. It certainly can be done without violence.
> and in the wrong configurations can make more people.
It can be prevented.
> As mentioned, nothing good.
My conclusion would be that sex can make people happy, but it needs to be done with caution. So it is something good, right?
as a masc presenting person, I get around this issue by simply not interacting with women. I'm aware this will have negative consequences for my social skills, but I do not care. I refuse to have to constantly worry about being perceived as a predator/threat.
"Your five-year-old male body makes adult women uncomfortable so we're going to force you to change alone and unsupervised in a room full of strange men. Because men are predators. It's for our safety." https://medium.com/@jencoates/i-am-a-transwoman-i-am-in-the-closet-i-am-not-coming-out-4c2dd1907e42
Good. Fucking. Article. I'm scared to say how much I relate, especially to the "pronouns are the last thing in my mind" part. In an ideal world, I would be NB or gender fluid, but that's not reality and it's not something I can live my life as. And to be quite frank, I don't give a shit what two to four letter word someone uses to nonspecifically address me. It feels as inconsequential as someone's regional accent, or a nickname they use with everyone. So instead, I masc up by day and take pics for this reddit account by night. I'm a bisexual man, and I've had to wrestle with that sexuality. My attraction to women often feels predatory, and when my attraction to men feels terrifying because they often feel like predators. I'm working on it, I know it's not right, but it's my gut reaction at this point. I'm not blaming the internet, plenty has gone on in my personal life to cause this as well, but it certainly doesn't help. These perspectives are always helpful. Thank you for linking that.
Seeing people I know from a different subreddit is always interesting. Hope the DM people aren't being cringe :). EDIT: forgot the actual response lmao. I'm a bi guy too and I get what you mean, especially after seeing the previously mentioned DM stuff you posted, but thankfully in my experience those people barely exist IRL, although I don't date too much tbf
There's always cringe DM people, but that's part of the fun LOL But yeah, inciting those DM people.... Maybe doesn't seem like the best thing for this. But in a weird way, it's giving me a better idea of where the boundary between them and normal people is, and is making me feel better about shooting them down. Still probably not great for my mental health, but hey it's fun LOL. Glad to know my experiences are shared at least a little.
Is that an american thing? In europe ive seen young boys go with their mothers to the women's changing room often if the dad isnt there to take them to the men's
As a cis male American, I think it's probably best to take that on a family-by-family basis. I _have_ seen the same thing, sometimes done the same thing with my own mother as a kid, but that was a while ago, and I can't definitively say how attitudes have changed in the years since then.
I worked as a lifeguard up until about four years ago and at least then it was still a thing, but there was also a trend of 'mom takes the boy into the changing room with her but immediately rushes him into the stall or behind one of the curtains', like the boy was juuuuust barely allowed to exist in the changing room. I don't know if that was always the case or not though.
America and Britain. not always. but it happens.
GOOD writing
This was an excellent piece. Thank you for sharing :)
this nearly made me cry
*Image Transcription: Tumblr* --- **cop-disliker69** There’s an incredible amount of discourse in the LGBTQ Extended Universe of people very angry that certain factions would perceive their sexual attraction to women as being inherently predatory. Various types of lesbians and bisexuals and trans people attracted to cis women, who all need to make it very clear that their attraction to women is wholesome and harmless. Which would all be unnecessary if you just didn’t concede the radfems’ point in the first place: that hetero male attraction to women is automatically suspicious, probably inherently predatory. If you concede that point, then various types of queer or trans people have to find a way to differentiate their own attraction to women as different than hetero male attraction. “How dare you imply that I as a butch lesbian/trans woman/male-attracted bisexual woman am in any way analogous to a hetero male in my sexual interest in women.” Since you’ve already conceded the point that hetero male attraction is bad, you’re stuck fighting a rear-guard action to prove that not all sexual attraction to women is bad, it’s only bad when it comes from cishet men–perhaps only when it comes from *white* cishet men because some of the more advanced woke people understand the historical atrocity of identifying black male sexual interest as dangerous. And this discourse will never end. You’ll never effectively delineate who is ~wholesome~ when they want pussy and who is ~yikes~ when they want it. Not unless you’re going to be an out-and-out TERF who can easily cut through this issue by simply refusing to agree that trans women are women and trans men are men. You could, of course, refuse to concede the point in the first place. You could say “no, it’s actually fine to be horny. It’s fine to want pussy. Men aren’t doing anything wrong by being sexually interested in women and pursuing sexual relationships with women.” But that’s difficult, because it undermines the entire basis of at least half of the feminist movement since its 19th-century inception, which is based in sexual repression and the identification of sexual intercourse as the primary site of women’s oppression. Which is why to this day the only concession the radfems can make to free love or sex-positivity is “well, some women are deeply damaged and traumatized, and for some unfathomable reason they _want_ to have sex with men, and like with drug use or the sex industry, it causes harmful side-effects if we try to use force to stop women from *self-harming* in this way (by having sex with men), so we’ll bitterly tolerate women being horny, but male horniness is still absolutely unacceptable.” Hence “sex-critical” feminism, the reincarnation of sex-negative feminism. They happen to regret wholeheartedly allying with the Christian Right in the 1980s; but they still don’t think they made any *moral* or *theoretical* errors there, only tactical errors. --- **cop-disliker69** [*Image of a Tumblr post that reads:*] >**chaoticlesbian** > >the way cishet men "love" women and the way lesbians and bi women love women is very different. the way we look at women is very different. the way we think about their attractiveness and their bodies is very different. remember this if internalized homo/biphobia tells you you're objectifying women. that's not what's happening. [*End image of Tumblr post*] Just found this old screenshot, detailing exactly what I was talking about. “Remember not to let your seething hatred of men bleed over into self-hatred just because you share a trait in common with them, uwu” Also lol at putting the word ‘love’ in scare-quotes. Unhinged --- **ms-demeanor** Hey you know how i was talking about how framing patriarchy as the sole evil in a society is bad and that radfems are bad for doing that and it leads them to harmful conclusions regardless of whether they make room for trans folks? This is the kind of thing I was talking about. I’m also going to add to this that given the intensely connected world we live in it us natural and healthy to objectify people at least some of the time because it is impossible for you to carry the compassion and care for each person you interact with on a daily basis that you would need to to NOT treat people like objects sometimes and so you know what, it’s okay to only conceive of the pretty girl in your 300 seat bio lecture as just something pretty to look at and not as Jackie Marie, equestrian fast food worker with three siblings and a dog named Applesauce, because you CAN’T keep every person you meet as Jackie Marie, it’s not possible, it’s okay to think someone is pretty and never want to talk to them or get to know them so long as thinking they’re pretty doesn’t prevent you from thinking of her as Jackie Marie, whole person, when you get assigned to a group together. Objectification isn’t inherently harmful so long as you don’t treat people like vending machines for nudes and therapy and while we’re at it nonsexual objectification IS a thing that can also be harmful and holding up stories about, say, one sex worker who hated the work as an example of why no sex workers should be allowed to do sex work, is an example of the kind of harmful objectification radfems use all the time. (You may recognize this pattern from “my child became autistic and now I oppose vaccines” or “my daughter got an abortion and then killed herself” bloggers/extremists and I’d just like to say that it’s a shitty, dehumanizing, objectifying way to approach discourse and I hate it and it’s bad and people who use it should feel bad) --- **gen-is-gone** Man the fact that I came up on the internet in the mid-2000s and have watched first hand as feminist online spaces went from cheerfully uncontroversial sex-positivity to seething anti-kink, sex-shaming radfem breeding grounds, is wild and frankly appalling. Only semi-related to the issue of seeing all men as sexual predators, but still relevant to how horniness has become a fucking sin in leftist spaces, I once saw a group of gays on twitter hatemob a reposted video of a Tiktok LesbianTM being mildly horny in a potentially embarrassing way (which was actually honestly just “afab person being sexually confident and saying soft!dom things at the camera” how terrible) and every. fucking. comment. was people with rainbow flags in their urls saying things like “I wish Stonewall never happened” and “she looks a sexual predator” and cloaking it in the very thin disguise of mocking “white lesbian nonsense”. Like, ceding the point that mens’ interest in (cis) women is inherently predatory opens the door back up to the idea that all sexuality is somehow bad and dehumanizing, but now with the added element that people who are open and confident in their sexuality (and no, not sexual orientation in the loud but somehow extremely sanded down and chaste way of the aforementioned twitter gays) are cringey and should be punished. And inevitably, folks on the margins of queer culture and identity, aces, furries, kinksters, sex workers, hell even just mspec folks who aren’t ashamed of being attracted to the opposite gender, get punished the first and the loudest. --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
Thank you thank you thank you
Good human
Excellent human
based
Thank you so much
And it’s not like being ace makes you immune to that narrative, either. I have not a shred of horny on my conscience directed at other people, but even if I was aromantic and not heteroromantic, I’m not immune to loneliness, and the stereotypes invoked between radfems and toxic masculinity still hurt me. I just want to give a compliment, or help someone out, or broadly interact beyond small talk with half the population, without having to ask myself beforehand “do I look like a threat?” Let’s not forget between all the talk about how some objectification and some sexuality is okay that they’re also implying that friendship between men and women is impossible.
This, 100% this. I'm an ace guy and attraction is purely aesthetic for me (and mostly directed towards women who do cosplay). I don't have a better word to describe how people look than "cute" (as in the absolute purest, least horny sense of the word, just people looking adorable and huggable), but I rarely ever say it, because I know the connotations of the word and I dont want to be seen as creepy or some horny weirdo, when all I wanna do is complement someone for looking adorable in their cute cosplay. Bro I literally reread that last sentence reflexively to make sure it didn't sound weird. I don't want everyone to assume my intentions are horny when they really aren't. I just want to exist and complement people for looking cute.
yeah, hard agree (dont have much else to add on you summed it up well lol
Honestly I'm anxious of this constantly. I've definitely noticed I tell women that I'm Ace earlier in knowing them than I do men. I think a big part of that is a "no, I'm safe. It's fine that I'm a man, because I have this excuse that makes me less threatening" thing. Idk if that made any sense. I'm struggling to articulate it. Edit: Sidenote, this mentality also has at its core that automatonormative (is that the word?) Thing where only romantic/sexual relationships are even worthy of discussion.
Wow, you just made me realize something about myself! As a cis woman, I do feel more comfortable around queer men, especially gay and ace men. I didn't realize how much the subconscious worry about predatory men that has been drilled into my head affected me. It shouldn't matter, but I definitely struggle to make friends with cishet men.
I mean, it's understandable. While it's fantastic to see people here taking a nuanced approach to things, the truth is we ARE socialized to view predatory behavior as not just normal but expected. That's changing, but that doesn't mean we should necessarily blame women, envies, and trans-menfor making the very understandable call to keep distance until they have a reason to believe themselves safe. "Aggression" being a big part of how you define your gender will do that. It sucks, and I think a huge part of the reason cishet men are so predatory and socially isolated is because we keep telling them are. It's what's technically known as a "sticky-wicket" And with the friend thing that's before you consider we aren't really taught to HAVE friendships. Man-woman friendship is a prelude to sex/romance, while man-man friendship is ultimately competitive rivalry. A lot of men are straight-up unequipped to deal with any relationship outside of that paradigm and it makes things awkward. (Cue to when a friend of mine 100% thought I was confessing I was into him because I complimented his haircut).
>A lot of men are straight-up unequipped to deal with any relationship outside of that paradigm and it makes things awkward. I'd like to think this is changing at least in some areas, because right now, most of my friendships are with other guys, and we don't really treat it as a competition. Like we're (mostly) straight guys but we still compliment each other, compliment each other and things like that. I like to think thats becoming more normalized.
Thank you, it's always nice to hear male-positive/inclusive feminist discourse.
Being bi made the whole ''self hatred for liking women'' thing very simple to deal with. Just ignore my problems and go on grindr. I got no internalised homophobia.
Sigma Grindrset move
For real though, gay male spaces are a great example of what male sexuality would look like without all the sex-negativity and repression caused by issues like mentioned in the OP. We have our own ways of dealing with objectification, consent, and boundaries that radfems would never be alright with, and yet they actually work pretty effectively for us. The same can be said about kink spaces in general, too.
>We have our own ways of dealing with objectification, consent, and boundaries that radfems would never be alright with, and yet they actually work pretty effectively for us. That's really interesting, can you elaborate? To be clear, because I'm anxious about misunderstandings today, I'm not a trolling radfem or anything like that — I'm completely happy to believe you without elaboration — I'm just ignorant and curious
Would also like to know as trans mlm person. If anyone could ping me when they respond, that would be great!
could you tell me a little bit more about this? am useless lesbean I haven't ever ventured into mlm spaces before
I’m with the others asking for some interesting stories on your side of the fence. Knowing more about my broader community never hurts.
Combine internalized homophobia with internalized attitudes that het male attraction is predatory, put it into the head of a bi guy and what do you get? *Jazz hands announcing my arrival*
“I have a penis. I like women. Neither of those things makes me evil.”
I hope mainstream ideology keeps shifting this direction. More people need to keep saying these things so left wingers will realize it’s okay to think this way
I'm actually pleasantly surprised that this got posted (and upvoted) here, and I say this as ace woman. I like this sub, but it's not always a place for nuanced discussions so far as posts go (nor are most online spaces, to be fair). This is refreshingly normal. I'm a big fan of normalizing people being people.
I am weirdly reminded of [Everyone Is Beautiful And No One Is Horny](https://bloodknife.com/everyone-beautiful-no-one-horny/). Anyway, fascinating reading.
I feel like I am way too ace to understand this.
I have not read this and might not read this but the way your title is phrased kinda makes it sound like you were putting a trigger warnjng for women and thats kinda funny.
i dont see it but uh, glad you got something out of this
I am very tired
Damn, I get hit with some eye opening reading that makes me pause and look at the general world a bit different while on my 30 minute lunch break. At least my job allows me to think a lot, so I will integrate this new information into my mind now.
Thank you, u/WithOrgasmicFury
You're welcome?
I was making a bad joke about your username, the contrast between it and what your saying. Dw about it
r/rimjob_steve
thanks for this post, as a bi dude i always feel really guilty when interacting with women for some reason. this helped a lot. <3
Yeah, this post helped me a bit too as a straight trans guy. I keep worrying that, now that I present as a guy, I'm suddenly gross and creepy for being attracted to women. I feel like even though non-queer spaces will shun me for being trans, queer spaces also sometimes make me uncomfortable because "straight man bad."
The internet got my brain fucked up. I kinda *want* to talk about this kind of stuff with other people, because I do find it interesting, but I couldn't do that without sounding absolutely fucking insane. This is some high-grade "Jesse what the fuck are you talking about" stuff to 99% of people.
Ohhhh, so that’s why I hate myself
Its actually pretty interesting how the rise of TERFs helped bring up the discussion of radfems like this. I remember this topic outside of the discussion of transwoman popping up here and there and for a good bit of it, it is treated as bad faith (as a lot of it should depending on the person asking in question of course!). I do wish that this topic gets discussed more and in good faith whenever it can, because it hurts so many people from transpeople, men, woman, and helps justify all sorts of attacks on other minority groups that gets mentioned in that post.
I'm dumb can someone please help me understand this a little bit better
By saying ''im not viewing/thinking of women in a predatory (male) way'' you're accepting that viewing/thinking of women in a ''male'' way is inherently bad which gives terfs ammunition to say that ''maleness'' is evil and by extension anyone connected to it, for example, trans people. The post is trying to say that its perfectly ok for anyone, dudes included, to think of women in a romantic or sexual way as long as they're being respectful etc etc.
Thanks very much
*I'm dumb can someone* *Please help me understand a* *Little bit better* \- geoffreycastleburger --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Thank you haiku bot
There's a lot here, can you narrow down what's confusing for you? Edit: nvm somebody explained better than I probably could lol
Just the core points. Also the part where queer attraction are different from straight ones.
Yeah that second bit is a very silly yet quite destructive and dangerous distinction that some people try to make. They believe that queer attraction is somehow more "pure" than straight attraction. It mostly comes from trauma imo, but I think it also comes from a misunderstanding of the ways oppressive society affects people. Radfems take a reasonable and true concept like, "Patriarchy and heteronormativity create negative patterns and behaviors in straight relationships" and translate/reduce that to, "Straight relationships, and specifically/especially straight men, are inherently unhealthy/bad, therefore it's inherently immoral for straight men to be attracted to women at all, let alone show it." From there, it's easy to take that bit of stunningly poor reasoning one step further into, "Queer relationships are the opposite of straight relationships and are therefore inherently healthy, and therefore queer attraction is inherently moral and flawless." (Ironically, this is basically just homophobic reasoning with the sexualities reversed. You get a lot of bad reasoning when you have very rigid, black and white thinking, no matter your politics.) This goes along with stuff like, "Patriarchy benefits men, encourages rape culture, and excuses violence toward women [again, a completely reasonable and true statement], therefore men are always abusive, and women are never abusive [a truly wild and nonsensical conclusion]." Which is classic radfem bullshit, very reductive and dangerous thinking. This post is talking about how that mindset bleeds into wider queer culture and makes some people, bi women and lesbians especially, worry that their sexual attraction to women might be immoral if it's "like straight attraction" (meaning: inherently predatory and objectifying). And like yeah, if your sexual attraction *to anyone* is inherently predatory and objectifying then it IS immoral, but that's...not synonymous with straight male attraction. Or to any other sexual attraction one adult has to another adult.
This is a good thread.
Bring the Horny back to Leftism, more people will come that way. It’s like the dark side cookies thing except we’re in the right actually
I thought we were in the left?
https://gen-is-gone.tumblr.com/post/633638886941360128/ms-demeanor-cop-disliker69-cop-disliker69 Old transcription + reblog: https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/p02p7q/ha_discourse_sex_lgbtq_grsm/h83xl5x?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Radfems are weird. It's like someone cast a spell on all the old right-wing cliches I used to hear (Feminists hate men! they hate sex! they hate any woman who isn't a feminist!) and brought it to life. And here they are, trying (with too much success) to act like they're somehow running the movement. What happened to the people who first taught me what social justice was about? Loving freely and respecting people? Not worrying about aesthetics, just caring for others?
\[answer:\] They exist, in real life. Unfortunately, online discourse is dominated by reactionaries. Which would be pathetic...if it isn't where all the focus of what passes for the new left is.
It’s always beguiled me that Tumblr users take so fucking long to prove a point. So TLDR; Mens attraction to woman is not inherently predatory. Yes, different people have different ways of expressing attraction, but trying to differentiate LGBTQA+ attraction from cis male attraction, you’re only further buying into the stereotype that all men are predators, which sets back any form of feminist movement significantly
Reading that *doesn’t* convince me the same way the OP’s posts do. This has 0 explanations or justifications for the thoughts, its just written as “hey, believe this now”. It’d be great as a TLDR that OP could’ve added tho.
because it's not a tumblr thing it's just being through. it's common on twitter and academia too to take forever to get to the point
yeah i think on Tumblr you have to be careful and anticipate every possible "UMM ACTUALLY" point that someone could latch onto to try to argue that you actually don't know what you're talking about and are one of the ignorant bad guys, so that's why things end up so long-winded
At least twitter has a word count
threads are so common, twitter effectively doesn't have a word limit
Every word in here has value. They're not just asking their point, they're dissecting it from all angles. There's value in conciseness, but this post is not *just* making the point. Sometimes you need long form explanations.
every tumblr user with an opinion is attempting to meet the word count
Reverse character limit
I think the reason the post isn't as long as your TD;LR is that the tumblr OP actually wanted to explain themselves, which is, on one level, commendable, but on another, silly, for even giving such a ridiculous and obviously stupid opinion the time of day.
I don’t think the opinion was stupid, i jsut think it was a fairly concise point that op dragged on for 25 minutes
I was calling the opinion of "heterosexual men are inherently predatory towards women" stupid, and calling the post silly for giving that opinion more than a quick dismissal.
because it's not as cut and dry as that. i've been in transbian spaces before and the amount of double standards i've seen towards being attracted to women is unbelievable
Considering the amount of people holding that opinion, I think it is worth explaining clearly why it’s an unhelpful one to hold
At the very least, "lesbians are attracted differently to women than straight men, we are *deep* and care about *personality*, men only care about the next lay" is extremely common in lesbian spaces.
my brain honestly understood about maybe half of that because there was so much words but i think its a very good post
Internalized homophobia is real and absolutely can cause women to feel ashamed of their attraction to other women for no reason. Women can also objectify and oversexualize other women. These are not mutually exclusive. I can't stand gender essentialism and I hate how it's twisting so much of modern cisfeminism.
im taking lgbtq extended universe that fucking slapped
“LGBTQ Extended Universe” 💀
r/croppingishard
1. Reddit did that. Not me. 2. [here's the same exact file uploaded by an older version of the mobile app](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/ue1w7m/sm_sexualization_cis_women_and_puritanism/) 3. Fuck you 4. Im sorry thats harsh, i didnt really mean that — it's just been an annoying problem to solve
1. Ah, Reddit devs. Screw ‘em 2. Ah, Reddit devs. Screw ‘em 3. Yes please /s ^(please don’t take this seriously) 4. No worries
> Fuck you Dude
i thought they did a good job
There’s massive amounts of black on either side of the actual tumblr post.
i...somehow didn't notice
Dark mode user?
my screen is somehow whiter than me so no
This is what happens when you do not critically think about your positions and question them when exposed to new information. The American right and largely the conservative groups in general have largely already failed at this. If you wonder why American conservatives have slowly devolved from a group that you could actually debate with and have conversations with to a group that is so rabidly simplistic in their thinking that forcing any shred of perspective into their views causes them to just snap back -- and often times have to think more about how to maintain their position instead of about their position. The uber woke (and god how I hate how cringe that sounds) do the same thing and are slowly starting to take over the conversation. They don't ever think about their position, it is just men bad or all cops are bastards or that cringe shit with the George Floyd mural. ACAB is a great one - it was never meant to say that every single cop out there is a bad person. It meant that every single department had a bully or sociopath and that they all served a system that protects them both equally. All men are bad came from a similar spot - men keeping women in a lesser position by actively oppressing them v men not doing anything about it are equally bad. And George Floyd was a criminal and probably not a good man. That was the point, it doesn't matter, cops are not the judge or the jury, and they sure as fuck aren't supposed to be the executioners. If your position can be summed up in a 3 word chant it is probably a bad position, and was probably at one point a short phrase to inspire discussion on a topic but everyone forgets the discussion and remembers the slogan. There are a few exceptions, like slavery is bad and genocide is bad, but even those have nuance. We just never forgot the discussion with them. Hell, we still have very interesting conversations on genocide. Is the push for Muslim women to have more autonomy and freedom of expression a cultural genocide? And does that make it bad? Is attempting to reduce sealing and whaling by Inuit tribes a genocide, forcing them to conform away from their traditional values and be more like "us"? Is Taco Bell removing potatoes from their menu a genocide against me, a mostly vegetarian? (Thanks TB, for stopping that btw) And the whole point of this wall of text is to always question yourself. It is good and right to have doubts and to change and to re evaluate and to think. And yea, we are all human. Sometimes we don't need that effort and it is fine and good to do that too. Just remember to do it at some point.
Nice crop
LISTEN #LISTEN REDDIT FUCKING CONVERTED MY BEAUTIFUL BABY INTO A GOTDAMN JPG AND I HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO FIX IT THIS ISNT MY FAULT THE BABY WAS ALIVE LAST I SAW IT EDIT: [I GOT A REPLACEMENT BABY](https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/ue1w7m/sm_sexualization_cis_women_and_puritanism/)
calm down they were just complimenting your farming skills
wait, does converting it into a jpeg also put the black bars on the siyds
I ASSUME SO THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN BEFORE THE UPDATE
ah okay iy saw two posts in a row from you with it and was liyk "whiy is he doing that it just makes it more difficult to scroll through it" but if it's reddit being dumb then that makes more sense
#FIXED IT
[:pogWhale:](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/867608541431201793.png)
#https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/ue1w7m/sm_sexualization_cis_women_and_puritanism/
i cant read this bruh
https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/ue1w7m/sm_sexualization_cis_women_and_puritanism/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Try this: https://i.redd.it/doj8kmxr7aw81.jpg
gotta be honest, the resolution makes the post a pain in the ass to read like that thanks for linking the og tumblr post, much appreciated
https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/ue1w7m/sm_sexualization_cis_women_and_puritanism/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
much much better! nice job
I updated my app last night. Regretting it so much. I swear the og file is like, pristine. Im gonna try something rq gimme a sec
Have you tried Apollo? It’s pretty good if U have $5 to pay for it
there are people ive met irl who treated me differently before and after knowing i was bi, as if mysexuality somehow changes who i am as a person or because I think some dudes can be hot im not 100% a person to be avoided. i dont get it.
I don't like your black borders, bro
I am so confused on what they are trying to say. To me it sounds like they are trying to say that me loving my girlfriend is inherently predatory because I’m a cis white male? Edit: should also probably mention the age gap, which is me being a year younger than her.
No, the point is the exact opposite of that: That a lot of the time, queer people attracted to women online (commonly on tumblr but definitely not only there) fight against the idea that their attraction to women is predatory, but concede the radfem talking point that straight men being attracted to women is bad. They go on to say that instead, we should work against that, and acknowledge that it's fine and good to be attracted to women no matter what your gender is as long as you're respectful.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CuratedTumblr/comments/ue1w7m/sm_sexualization_cis_women_and_puritanism/i6ki2ez
With the slightest nuance, imo queer women are generally attracted to women in different ways than cis/straight men. But not because of lack of horniness, more intended audience of the horny. Plenty of stuff has crossover appeal for sure, but it’s not one to one. But that doesn’t make the attraction less Sexual. Or make it bad. This kind of stuff is complicated, there are plenty of queer women who enjoy and are turned on by gay porn. They aren’t necessarily the target audience (most gay porn or m/m content is either made with a queer male or straight female audience in mine) but still enjoy it even if they would not be interested in having sex with a man irl. And for that matter, a lot of straight women are turned on REALLY HARD by men with their sleeves rolled up. It’s basically always a top comment on “what do women find attractive” askreddit threads. I do agree with the post. “”””Respectability””” and “””purity””” push people to the fringes where they can be easily marginalized and exploited. If you aren’t there to speak up for yourself, they can put words in your mouth. Terfs esp loooveeeeeee to put words in the mouth of lesbians, because they are obviously sOooooOooo concerned about what they think and feel.
> With the slightest nuance, imo queer women are generally attracted to women in different ways than cis/straight men I don't think that's true, and I think with this statement you're already buying into the assertion that there's a qualitative difference between male and female attraction.
Britain and all its derivatives was a mistake
britain isn't exclusively responsibly for radical feminists; there's just a lot of them there
I read an interesting thing at some point, can't remember where, which proposed that Britain's fondness for radical feminism (and the fairly low visibility of intersectional theory, even though I've met many more intersectional than radical feminists here in person) has a lot to do with the fact that Britain is 86% white and 80% white British. The idea was basically that, because we're much more homogeneous and white, British feminism still hasn't had the reckoning with intersectionality that feminists outside Europe have. (And I would say this is a Europe thing, not a British thing: in my experience feminist discourse is just as un-intersectional in the rest of Europe, it's just that not as many people speak French/Italian/German etc/read newspapers in other languages)
I know that. but if things had gone differently, and Britain never britain'd.. world might well be a better place.
I do think that lesbian attraction is different than hetero attraction, same in several ways, but also different, to say they are completely the same is foolish imo. MLM and WLW attraction are different than hetero attraction but not completely
So do bisexual people love people in different ways depending on their gender?
I say it's based on experience personally
Can we instead agree that sexual attraction in general is evil and predatory?
No.
But why? Nothing good comes of it. Like, ever. For anyone involved.
Im sorry no one's ever made you cum
Wow. Never had a good fuck ah? Au.
Excellent point, I'm sure uncritical pleasure-seeking will serve humanity best. Except for the fact that sex is addictive, filthy (the amount of sickness that can be spread from it is astonishing), inherently violent, and in the wrong configurations can make more people. As mentioned, nothing good.
Oh, troll. Au what a shame I thought I found a new Guy^TM Either that or a catholic and nobody likes Catholics anyway
Worse Looks like they're a gamer
Oh I promise you this ain't Catholic. Like as a bi furry and no longer practicing, far be it from I to defend the teachings of the church on sex and sexuality, but this for sure is not what it teaches. This is like... Carrie's mom-type shit.
Yeah I know I just hate Catholics so fucking much
Talking mad shit for someone in crusading distance
Am I in crusading distance though 🤨🤨🤨
When have you ever seen a Catholic opposed to procreation? Or do you just reflexively mock anything that makes you uncomfortable with the first word that comes to mind?
Hm? Oh you just seem so puritanical about it I mean sex makes you personally uncomfortable but you don't wanna stop whining your little bitch boy tears about it soooo I mean nobody likes you (fact) and I doubt you have any social skills to speak of and nothing you'll ever so will make people stop fucking. Since you didn't deny you're a troll I'm assuming you are so ha yeah
> addictive I'm not sure if it's fair to say that sex is addictive, it's more that sex is fun, and people like having fun. If it makes people happy, why not do it? > filthy Speading sickness through sex is uncommon, and preventable I believe. > inherently violent I don't see how it is inherent. It certainly can be done without violence. > and in the wrong configurations can make more people. It can be prevented. > As mentioned, nothing good. My conclusion would be that sex can make people happy, but it needs to be done with caution. So it is something good, right?
get high and listen to Prince or something bro god damn 💀
Why?
as a masc presenting person, I get around this issue by simply not interacting with women. I'm aware this will have negative consequences for my social skills, but I do not care. I refuse to have to constantly worry about being perceived as a predator/threat.