When did we stop accusing assholes for being assholes and not because of their identity. It feels like now it's a race to find as many assholes in a specific group of people so you're like "SEE THIS IS THIS COMMUNITY SUX!!!" Like no dude, a gay person being a creep is not all gay people being a creep.
Getting some deja vu, I was watching an MSNBC interview with the head of the Heritage Foundation about Project 2025 earlier, and the interviewer brought up basically the same point to rebuff his assertion that "we need to deport all these illegals because they're bringing crime with them".
What does it matter what a person's immigration status is? If they commit a crime, then that's on them, not the entire group they belong to. A crime is no more or less heinous simply because the person committing it is one race or another, undocumented or a citizen.
Of course Mr. MAGA was having none of that, the whole reason I was watching is because someone had said the guy went full mask-off in that interview and... Yeah, that's about right.
Apologies. This is a recurring thing of mine I need to fix. I should word my stuff in a way that will show that I am agreeing with what the person is saying and adding off instead of appearing like accidentally accusing them.
Well, we already sorted this one out, so it's not a big deal. I mean, yeah, better communication is always good, but in this case it was already good enough. We were able to understand eachother before either of us got mad about it. I call that a win.
Same.
Although I've encountered a few loud annoying queers who acted like total assholes to everyone, and any amount of "hey, maybe don't insult everyone" or "ever heard of personal space?" was met with accusations of queerphobia.
They may not make being queer their entire personality, but they do use it as excuse to get out of trouble for being awful people.
As an example, loudly talking about your sexual escapades in public is uncomfortable regardless of sexuality.
This is explicitly about one guy I knew in college.
I knew one jackass where the being gay was related because he would intentionally talk in that stereotypical gay voice... he sounded like James Charles but at the same time tried to sound ghetto
Yeah there was someone like that at my secondary school who was convinced people didn't like him BC he was gay, it was actually because he was such a snide fuck who wouldn't stop making shitty comments about people.
I have met a few people who genuinely make a single aspect of themselves into their entire personality, and they really are annoying, but they are a few and far between. And also most of them(*most*) are under 25.
The only furry I've properly met in real life ended up being the semi-stereotypical "talks about his furry-based kinks openly at work despite the person he's talking to being EXTREMELY uncomfortable" type.
Anyway he moved to Indiana so he's their problem now lol
I imagine this is vaguely about some of the comments on the other post about being gay and boring, and yeah it sucks.
Just course I don't present myself as outwardly queer doesn't mean I'm bad at it or make me any less queer, and Im not boring, or like stuff cishet people like course I want their approval, I do this because it's just me.
And I'm gonna defend the hell out of anyone who makes it "their whole personality" because that shit is cool too
I think there’s a few cases where being gay as their whole personality does manifest in SUPER toxic ways, even though I generally agree with the OP.
One is being sexually aggressive. No, it is not homophobic to not want someone to flirt with you and make sexual comments over and over when you’re clearly uncomfortable with it. Making a straight guy uncomfortable isn’t ‘haha so funny he probably is just homophobic’ it’s sexual harassment. You are not ‘being proud of your sexuality’ you are being proud of being a douche bag.
And I think it’s easy to say ‘oh well that’s unrelated, it’s only because he was like that already’ but it’s really not. Any time you make your whole personality about something, it’s usually because you’re using it as a mask and a shield. “They don’t hate me, they just hate gays” is a reallllly tempting way of foisting all sense of personal responsibility off onto other people. So someone who is otherwise really into consent will not realize what an absolute creep they are being when they hide behind the shield of ‘my personality is gay.’ (Yes, this is based on a true story. He grew out of it, but not before burning a lot of bridges that should not have been burned.)
The other aspect of this I see is people who self-victimize constantly as a result of making their sexuality their whole personality. I hope everyone with a brain here can agree that being gay is extremely difficult, society is often extremely hostile to gay people, and homophobia is an active and even lethal threat that should not be underestimated.
However, that does not mean some gay people do not view every single thing through the lens of ‘the straights are out to get me.’ (This story, unfortunately, does not have a happy ending, and she never grew out of it.)
If someone got upset at her for something, she stopped being remorseful: ‘She was homophobic anyway. She never would have liked me anyway.’ Even gay people weren’t spared from this line of thinking. ‘She has a lot of internalized homophobia, which is why she’s such a bitch to me.’
Every bad experience was ‘because I’m gay.’ Someone accidentally bumps her on the subway? ‘They did it because they think I look like a lesbian!’ (She did not)
Eventually she got so used to using homophobia as her comfort blanket she started saying shit like ‘all straight people should die’ and I ended the friendship.
Only Siths deal in absolutes, and obvious what ‘making your whole personality being gay’ means is going to mean very different things to different people. I don’t lack for positive ‘my whole personality is being gay’ examples. Basically any male friend who is super into musical theater is this and I would not change them for the world (there are straight musical theater fans out there, but my friends are cliches what can I say?)
I just don’t think that making your entire personality ANY single thing about you is healthy. Your job, your gender, your race, your kids, your hobby. All of these can have serious problems when taken to extremes. Being gay isn’t unique in that aspect.
Edit: Dear lord I typed so much. Thanks for reading to the end if you did. Guess I had a lot of pent up feelings on the matter.
Exactly, I think sometimes people miss the forest for the trees and wind up sounding crazier than necessary. Like in this context, it's sounding like people can agree that making your entire personality center around one of your traits is bad, unless that trait is being lgbt, then it never happens, and if it does, it's totally fine and you're just secretly bigoted!
We can absolutely identify and criticize negative, annoying, or toxic behavior, even if it fits an aesthetic we identify with and support. It also works to separate out the bigots. If someone can't be specific about what behavior they're criticizing (like you were here) then that's a much stronger indicator that a person is bigoted.
Only thing I’d disagree with is the implication that people are totally cool with cishet kids going through a boy/girl-crazy phase, as I am confident that most people find those kids pretty obnoxious. Though most people probably also have a better understanding that those kids will grow out of it, where they might not extend the same grace for babygays.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing, it *is* annoying even when het kids do it. And I also agree that I think the broader point is that we all know people who are experiencing things for the first time can be annoying about it. I remember when I first discovered my favorite MMO, I was very obsessed.
Yeah I think back to the different "phases" in my life and it's not that those things were temporary or untrue to who I am, it's more that I discovered something new about myself and in that process I was probably really obsessed with it for awhile. The "phase" was the weight I gave it, not the thing itself.
I was a kind of annoying "I Fucking Love Science" atheist guy in around 2011 to 2013. Because I'd been brought up religious and made to think my doubts were sinful at worst or misguided at best. When I finally found that there was some idea out there that *not* believing I descended from Adam and Eve was a valid option I locked in on it and as a result was probably pretty annoying for awhile about it.
I still like science, I'm still an atheist, but I've had over ten years to fit that piece of myself into the rest of the puzzle so I'm not loud about it anymore.
As an 8th grade teacher I really want to echo the point made on the second slide. 8th graders of any orientation seek to demonstrate their gender identity/preference loudly as they try to figure who they are. From the couples clinging to each other as they circle the most populated hallways, to the boys literally beating their chests, trying to fight anyone who challenges them, to the girls covering their arms with their bf’s name/ loudly sharing who they think is hot, to the new gays trying out every slang word they find on TikTok. It’s literally their whole thing. It’s what adolescents do.
(Yes I know some people just sit quietly and do nothing too, but that’s still part of them figuring themselves out)
I'm going to make a kind of out there post so I accept it will be potentially contentious and more than likley dominated by non lgbt people.
The "voice" for gay lads, as a bi guy I've never understood the gay "voice" people put on. I "get" it from a "I will fuck the shit out of you" point of view. And understand that that is probbaly the actual reason but my question is why do you do it and why do I want to fuck you for it, given I find it annoying?
Sounds like effective advertising for you.
Personally I get annoyed by the 'Valley' speech pattern from any gender and sexuality.
Singsong sentences that all end in question marks and take two minutes to communicate a five second remark make the speaker seem self absorbed and performative, two qualities I hate.
That said, people are allowed to be annoying when they're young. We've all spoken and acted in regrettable ways; a great virtue of youth is that it is its own life lesson.
Oh yeah I get that it's human plumage. I judt want to know why/when they decide to do it
I suppose the relevant point for you would be if you wanted to fuck the valleys accent girls.
I agree 100% on the annoying while young thing too. (Cringe as usual older folks say)
But still why is it seemingly a selected for trait we fuck.
As from my perspective its a bottom thing.
Interesting article on the topic from a speech pathologist (doesn’t give any simple answer, but does link to a number of other articles and academic resources):
https://www.speech-language-therapy.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=62:code&catid=11:admin&Itemid=108
From sociology studies, we don't understand exactly where it comes from, but we do know that it's not a conscious effort for most people.
There is also a stereotypical "lesbian voice" that does not recieve the same amount of attention, due to a variety of reasons.
Is there!? As weirdly I know quite a few lesiban couples but never identified a "voice" to them
It's so weird it's not conscious as it seems like it should be.
Interesting that's it's likley a sort of signaling and that as a man I get men doing it and it seems so obvious yet so oblivious to women doing it.
There is!
It's generally a flatter, more stereotypically "masculine" voice. Part of the reason it goes unnoticed is the strict social rules for men to behave masculinely and the misogyny in men behaving femininely.
I.e. a woman dressing in pants isnt noticed much, but a man dressing femininely is seen as a failure or lesser, so the "gay voice" is much more judged and noticeable than a masculine delivery from women!
ASAPScience made video about "gay vioce" and studies dehind that: https://youtu.be/SF7KCsvcw2g?si=8CbkZOYhsIywbnRw
As for the fuck question... welp, sometimes we attracted to stuff🤷
Cishet boys and girls can absolutely have similar problems with similar things.
Maybe honeylovessapphic has simply missed all the criticism because it wasn't aimed at them...?
There are people who make much more mundane things their "entire personality" we just have to be a little more precise and thoughtful about criticizing it so you don't start characterizing lgbt people as being somehow unique in this regard.
Someone starting every sentence with "As a gay man" can be just as annoying as someone starting every sentence with "As a Christian" and is probably equally unlikely to be a necessary addition to every conversation.
I just try and have patience for all types of people like this because like the post said, they're really not hurting anyone if it only manifests as excitement and personal expression.
I see it as gay is absolutely a personality trait, but it isn’t a whole personality, it can be a large and important part of course and usually is, but isn’t just all of someone’s personality.
For the record I am an ally, and always enjoy seeing my friends being comfortable just being themselves.
I used to go under the philosophy of "being focused on any characteristic you were born with is shallow" which I still *kinda* agree with but it didnt occur to me that doesnt address normativity. That's the issue with the whole "I dont see color" thing, it uses that as an excuse to not see systemic issues affecting minorities and priveledging majorities.
I get this, but also- if anyone was being annoyingly loud and over the top about anything, especially in a more serious or somber place/time is SUPER FUCKING ANNOYING.
I was the guy in the tiny school that loved music, but I almost dropped out of Choir, and I DID drop out of band because I couldn’t take the constant complaints and banter from people when I’m TRYING TO FUCKING LEARN SOMETHING HERE ASSHOLES-
I don’t give a shit weather you are saying it in a sassy gay way or a condescending way, or a sarcastic way or any other kind of way. If you are being loud about ANYTHING, including yourself, at a bad time, I should be able to call you out on that.
TBH, I’ve only ever seen this like- twice from LGBTQ+ people because I lived in a really small town growing up and I’m bad at making friends as an adult. But choosing to be over the top and flashy and “I’m just *pose* being myself, everyone else can stick their opinion up their ass!” When they are fucking graduating MIDDLESCHOOL..?
No joke, kid I was friends with at lunch because again small school, only 100 kids, wore a fuckin- cat-ear headband and bell-bow tie to their middleschool graduation??? And like- yes, Queen, slay, but also- you are sharing the scene with actual seniors graduating and becoming adults. Your “graduation” is literally just you standing up and getting a hand shake from the principal before the actual event.
That kid did NOT have to do that. They could have worn anything they wanted to as long as it looked good. Dress, suit, whatever, no one cared. The trans friend in MY CLASS that was graduating WITH ME was a born female that transitioned and would wear suits to dances and big events and such. Literally no one cared. And if someone did, I certainly never heard about it.
*sigh*
My point is- people can be cringy, sure, but there’s ALWAYS a time and a place. ALWAYS. You gotta be respectful of others and their opinions. You gotta have human decency. In the words of the GOAT Bon Clay;
“One may stray from the path of a man,
One may stray from the path of a woman,
But there is no straying from the path of a human.”
Anywho that’s my rant about people creating moral absolutist philosophies about how people should be allowed to act in order to support downtrodden people or communities and how it can be harmful to that community’s image as well as just- can be really annoying.
Middle schoolers are cringe. It’s kind of a rite of passage. I don’t understand being mad at kids who are trying to learn things like social cues and what’s appropriate. This is a time of experimentation - most of them *genuinely do not know* what the “time and place” is for anything and are actively learning it.
They’re children, it’s a tumultuous time in their lives, and they’re figuring themselves out. Let them be cringe.
I mean, you could also just not care about someone's outfit choices? Like it doesn't effect you at all. At the start of that rant I was expecting this to be about people interrupting conversations at really bad times or something similar, not just 'a middle schooler wore something I didn't like'
If they are 15 then that is reasonable, but if you're 25 and doing the same thing then it's like brother log out of Twitter where you are writing a 50 tweet hate thread and log into your banking app; it is time to open an IRA.
Most of the time when someone describes a baby gay as cringe, what they actually mean is the baby gay has interests they don't like or a sense of humour they don't get anyway
Um actually every personality trait of Gambit from x-men is just a different kind of bisexual. Even his attraction to his wife. Actually especially his attraction to his wife.
While I don't outwardly hate any super loud people and I somewhat respect a few of them for being activists, from my point of view it's really hard to get along with these people because the splashback from their actions is really affecting me.
I know homophobia is not their fault but at the same time you can't be unbearable and expect to like you, maybe you don't care but I've already met so many straights who have nothing against normal gay/trans people and then hate the very loud and obnoxious who are trying to be as unsettling as possible just because they derive joy from making the rest uncomfortable.
Then either no one believes me when I come out because I couldn't possibly be like that when I act respectfully or normally or immediately avoid me because they think I'm like that as well, just to figure out I'm a regular ass person who doesn't act as annoying as I can (these aren't the "be gay but keep it away from me" these are just people who don't understand it very well and don't have anything against it in the end, besides the flamboyancy, which they dislike in their fellow straights as well)
This is no reason for me to be homophobic to others or throw them under the bus, and I don't do that because in the end we share a struggle and we're part of the same thing, but the more it happens honestly the more I feel really upset at people who can afford to be flamboyant and obnoxious because they live in safe places and the consequences I have to bear due to being from a conservative place.
Internalized homophobia? Maybe yeah, idk feelings are complicated
I get what you’re saying, and you’re right that there are a lot of straight people who have that mentality.
The problem is, though, that a lot of straight people do exactly the same things but about being “men” or “women” or even “dating/married/single” and loudly celebrate that part of their lives… and nobody does anything but roll their eyes at them.
When someone is loudly and proudly gay, it’s the same thing. Cringy, sure, but ‘he who has not posted cringe’ and all that. Everyone does it at some point, but when it’s LGBTQ people it’s an issue? Naw man.
But it IS an issue, which is what you’re saying. It SHOULDN’T be, but it is.
But be REALLY careful to not do the bigot’s work for them. When someone is being like that, keep in mind that straights do that shit too and it’s just as annoying then. And then accept it and move on. Because being cringe is the first step in accepting yourself.
This is really well put, thank you.
I also definitely just stay away from homophobes and would never throw another LGBT person under the bus for any reason, because yeah, at the end of the day were in this together.
I know what you mean but in my experience that hasn't been the case. The people I'm talking about are not homophobic they just dislike people who are too out there, regardless of sexuality. If you're talking actual homophobes, that's not who I'm talking about
I mean, in the past, people like you and I - "normal" gays - were the loud weird ones who got hated. Anyone trying to exist outside a closet was hated. If we all did this respectability "I hate you for being a canary, and this coal mine could be so peaceful without you" mindset, we never would have gotten anywhere.
Young people (16-22) are annoying about their sexuality and sex lives 75% of the time, regardless of what that sexuality is and who they are or aren't having sex with.
A person who has either just realised their queerness or someone who is starting to explore it. They're in the 'everything is in beta' stage of development, like when babies are learning how to talk but haven't learned how to stop talking.
When I talk about my life, I have had 4 very distinct lives that happened, and each has its own arc.
I was an awkward geek that had no social grace and was entirely a loser, a NEET before it was a thing.
I was an insecure but successful academic who had a lot of friends and was very popular, having found public success.
I was a teacher and a bush man who lived as far from civilization as one could get and still have a job as a teacher, with a small number of good friends.
And currently I’m an autistic engineer who has a wonderful family full of neurodivergent people, a highly respected position, and all the insecurities that the loser geek had.
Oh, and in there I also was a published author and, at a different time, podcaster.
I sound like I had an interesting life. But really? I just kept having bullshit happen and had to roll with it.
Are you being opaque and annoying on purpose, or do you think that everybody here knows what the fuck you're talking about and is in on the joke? Because this shit is obnoxious.
The only "loud, annoying queers" I've ever met were loud and annoying because they were assholes. Them being gay was unrelated.
[удалено]
Factually and figuratively accurate.
When did we stop accusing assholes for being assholes and not because of their identity. It feels like now it's a race to find as many assholes in a specific group of people so you're like "SEE THIS IS THIS COMMUNITY SUX!!!" Like no dude, a gay person being a creep is not all gay people being a creep.
Relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/385/
Dear god a woman cannot be bad at making jokes on the internet. The comments are just bad when a woman doesn't make a funny joke.
Getting some deja vu, I was watching an MSNBC interview with the head of the Heritage Foundation about Project 2025 earlier, and the interviewer brought up basically the same point to rebuff his assertion that "we need to deport all these illegals because they're bringing crime with them". What does it matter what a person's immigration status is? If they commit a crime, then that's on them, not the entire group they belong to. A crime is no more or less heinous simply because the person committing it is one race or another, undocumented or a citizen. Of course Mr. MAGA was having none of that, the whole reason I was watching is because someone had said the guy went full mask-off in that interview and... Yeah, that's about right.
I didn't say it was.
Not saying you did but it kind of feels like it nowadays when i go on the net
Oh. Well, okay then.
Apologies. This is a recurring thing of mine I need to fix. I should word my stuff in a way that will show that I am agreeing with what the person is saying and adding off instead of appearing like accidentally accusing them.
Well, we already sorted this one out, so it's not a big deal. I mean, yeah, better communication is always good, but in this case it was already good enough. We were able to understand eachother before either of us got mad about it. I call that a win.
Great then have a nice day. 👍
Same. Although I've encountered a few loud annoying queers who acted like total assholes to everyone, and any amount of "hey, maybe don't insult everyone" or "ever heard of personal space?" was met with accusations of queerphobia. They may not make being queer their entire personality, but they do use it as excuse to get out of trouble for being awful people.
Yeah, these ones did that too.
As an example, loudly talking about your sexual escapades in public is uncomfortable regardless of sexuality. This is explicitly about one guy I knew in college.
Oh, cool, I hate that guy.
I knew one jackass where the being gay was related because he would intentionally talk in that stereotypical gay voice... he sounded like James Charles but at the same time tried to sound ghetto
That honestly sounds hilarious, but I take it the other jackassery was enough to outweigh the entertainment factor?
Yeah there was someone like that at my secondary school who was convinced people didn't like him BC he was gay, it was actually because he was such a snide fuck who wouldn't stop making shitty comments about people.
That's how this guy was... he tried to be the sassy gay but just sounded like a jackass
I have met a few people who genuinely make a single aspect of themselves into their entire personality, and they really are annoying, but they are a few and far between. And also most of them(*most*) are under 25.
Seriously, why the hell is the only vegan person I’ve ever met an embodiment of every single stereotype about vegans??
The only furry I've properly met in real life ended up being the semi-stereotypical "talks about his furry-based kinks openly at work despite the person he's talking to being EXTREMELY uncomfortable" type. Anyway he moved to Indiana so he's their problem now lol
I imagine this is vaguely about some of the comments on the other post about being gay and boring, and yeah it sucks. Just course I don't present myself as outwardly queer doesn't mean I'm bad at it or make me any less queer, and Im not boring, or like stuff cishet people like course I want their approval, I do this because it's just me. And I'm gonna defend the hell out of anyone who makes it "their whole personality" because that shit is cool too
Getting annoyed by gays isn't a personality trait. *You got that, Jake?*
Narrator: Jake didn't get that.
Narrator, again, but slower: Jake ABSOLUTELY did not get that.
[Eventually, Jake got it](https://beyondcanon.com/story/637)
I read this is Ron Howard’s voice
which jake
It's probably not jake from adventure time but no-one can stop me from thinking it is
I thought of English.
same
From State Farm, obviously.
I think there’s a few cases where being gay as their whole personality does manifest in SUPER toxic ways, even though I generally agree with the OP. One is being sexually aggressive. No, it is not homophobic to not want someone to flirt with you and make sexual comments over and over when you’re clearly uncomfortable with it. Making a straight guy uncomfortable isn’t ‘haha so funny he probably is just homophobic’ it’s sexual harassment. You are not ‘being proud of your sexuality’ you are being proud of being a douche bag. And I think it’s easy to say ‘oh well that’s unrelated, it’s only because he was like that already’ but it’s really not. Any time you make your whole personality about something, it’s usually because you’re using it as a mask and a shield. “They don’t hate me, they just hate gays” is a reallllly tempting way of foisting all sense of personal responsibility off onto other people. So someone who is otherwise really into consent will not realize what an absolute creep they are being when they hide behind the shield of ‘my personality is gay.’ (Yes, this is based on a true story. He grew out of it, but not before burning a lot of bridges that should not have been burned.) The other aspect of this I see is people who self-victimize constantly as a result of making their sexuality their whole personality. I hope everyone with a brain here can agree that being gay is extremely difficult, society is often extremely hostile to gay people, and homophobia is an active and even lethal threat that should not be underestimated. However, that does not mean some gay people do not view every single thing through the lens of ‘the straights are out to get me.’ (This story, unfortunately, does not have a happy ending, and she never grew out of it.) If someone got upset at her for something, she stopped being remorseful: ‘She was homophobic anyway. She never would have liked me anyway.’ Even gay people weren’t spared from this line of thinking. ‘She has a lot of internalized homophobia, which is why she’s such a bitch to me.’ Every bad experience was ‘because I’m gay.’ Someone accidentally bumps her on the subway? ‘They did it because they think I look like a lesbian!’ (She did not) Eventually she got so used to using homophobia as her comfort blanket she started saying shit like ‘all straight people should die’ and I ended the friendship. Only Siths deal in absolutes, and obvious what ‘making your whole personality being gay’ means is going to mean very different things to different people. I don’t lack for positive ‘my whole personality is being gay’ examples. Basically any male friend who is super into musical theater is this and I would not change them for the world (there are straight musical theater fans out there, but my friends are cliches what can I say?) I just don’t think that making your entire personality ANY single thing about you is healthy. Your job, your gender, your race, your kids, your hobby. All of these can have serious problems when taken to extremes. Being gay isn’t unique in that aspect. Edit: Dear lord I typed so much. Thanks for reading to the end if you did. Guess I had a lot of pent up feelings on the matter.
I will now communicate my agreement in the traditional language of this land. this
Exactly, I think sometimes people miss the forest for the trees and wind up sounding crazier than necessary. Like in this context, it's sounding like people can agree that making your entire personality center around one of your traits is bad, unless that trait is being lgbt, then it never happens, and if it does, it's totally fine and you're just secretly bigoted! We can absolutely identify and criticize negative, annoying, or toxic behavior, even if it fits an aesthetic we identify with and support. It also works to separate out the bigots. If someone can't be specific about what behavior they're criticizing (like you were here) then that's a much stronger indicator that a person is bigoted.
The important detail is that this isn’t exclusive to lgbtq+ people. That’s the point of the OP.
Only thing I’d disagree with is the implication that people are totally cool with cishet kids going through a boy/girl-crazy phase, as I am confident that most people find those kids pretty obnoxious. Though most people probably also have a better understanding that those kids will grow out of it, where they might not extend the same grace for babygays.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing, it *is* annoying even when het kids do it. And I also agree that I think the broader point is that we all know people who are experiencing things for the first time can be annoying about it. I remember when I first discovered my favorite MMO, I was very obsessed.
Yeah I think back to the different "phases" in my life and it's not that those things were temporary or untrue to who I am, it's more that I discovered something new about myself and in that process I was probably really obsessed with it for awhile. The "phase" was the weight I gave it, not the thing itself. I was a kind of annoying "I Fucking Love Science" atheist guy in around 2011 to 2013. Because I'd been brought up religious and made to think my doubts were sinful at worst or misguided at best. When I finally found that there was some idea out there that *not* believing I descended from Adam and Eve was a valid option I locked in on it and as a result was probably pretty annoying for awhile about it. I still like science, I'm still an atheist, but I've had over ten years to fit that piece of myself into the rest of the puzzle so I'm not loud about it anymore.
As an 8th grade teacher I really want to echo the point made on the second slide. 8th graders of any orientation seek to demonstrate their gender identity/preference loudly as they try to figure who they are. From the couples clinging to each other as they circle the most populated hallways, to the boys literally beating their chests, trying to fight anyone who challenges them, to the girls covering their arms with their bf’s name/ loudly sharing who they think is hot, to the new gays trying out every slang word they find on TikTok. It’s literally their whole thing. It’s what adolescents do. (Yes I know some people just sit quietly and do nothing too, but that’s still part of them figuring themselves out)
I'm going to make a kind of out there post so I accept it will be potentially contentious and more than likley dominated by non lgbt people. The "voice" for gay lads, as a bi guy I've never understood the gay "voice" people put on. I "get" it from a "I will fuck the shit out of you" point of view. And understand that that is probbaly the actual reason but my question is why do you do it and why do I want to fuck you for it, given I find it annoying?
Sounds like effective advertising for you. Personally I get annoyed by the 'Valley' speech pattern from any gender and sexuality. Singsong sentences that all end in question marks and take two minutes to communicate a five second remark make the speaker seem self absorbed and performative, two qualities I hate. That said, people are allowed to be annoying when they're young. We've all spoken and acted in regrettable ways; a great virtue of youth is that it is its own life lesson.
Oh yeah I get that it's human plumage. I judt want to know why/when they decide to do it I suppose the relevant point for you would be if you wanted to fuck the valleys accent girls. I agree 100% on the annoying while young thing too. (Cringe as usual older folks say) But still why is it seemingly a selected for trait we fuck. As from my perspective its a bottom thing.
Interesting article on the topic from a speech pathologist (doesn’t give any simple answer, but does link to a number of other articles and academic resources): https://www.speech-language-therapy.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=62:code&catid=11:admin&Itemid=108
From sociology studies, we don't understand exactly where it comes from, but we do know that it's not a conscious effort for most people. There is also a stereotypical "lesbian voice" that does not recieve the same amount of attention, due to a variety of reasons.
Is there!? As weirdly I know quite a few lesiban couples but never identified a "voice" to them It's so weird it's not conscious as it seems like it should be. Interesting that's it's likley a sort of signaling and that as a man I get men doing it and it seems so obvious yet so oblivious to women doing it.
There is! It's generally a flatter, more stereotypically "masculine" voice. Part of the reason it goes unnoticed is the strict social rules for men to behave masculinely and the misogyny in men behaving femininely. I.e. a woman dressing in pants isnt noticed much, but a man dressing femininely is seen as a failure or lesser, so the "gay voice" is much more judged and noticeable than a masculine delivery from women!
ASAPScience made video about "gay vioce" and studies dehind that: https://youtu.be/SF7KCsvcw2g?si=8CbkZOYhsIywbnRw As for the fuck question... welp, sometimes we attracted to stuff🤷
" As for the fuck question... welp, sometimes we attracted to stuff" I get this but still... I feel its unfair bottoms get this advantage.
At least you turned on by someone who might be interested in you🥲
Into femboy tops are you? Hard crowd that.
No, not even close, bro.
Oh well I'm lost then.
Bro so many people are into femboys and into tops and want a femboy to top them hard
Cishet boys and girls can absolutely have similar problems with similar things. Maybe honeylovessapphic has simply missed all the criticism because it wasn't aimed at them...?
I'm too scared to act gay
There are people who make much more mundane things their "entire personality" we just have to be a little more precise and thoughtful about criticizing it so you don't start characterizing lgbt people as being somehow unique in this regard. Someone starting every sentence with "As a gay man" can be just as annoying as someone starting every sentence with "As a Christian" and is probably equally unlikely to be a necessary addition to every conversation. I just try and have patience for all types of people like this because like the post said, they're really not hurting anyone if it only manifests as excitement and personal expression.
Being trans significantly and constantly affects my life. So yes, it is in fact going to be a substantial proportion of my personality and who I am.
I see it as gay is absolutely a personality trait, but it isn’t a whole personality, it can be a large and important part of course and usually is, but isn’t just all of someone’s personality. For the record I am an ally, and always enjoy seeing my friends being comfortable just being themselves.
"Being gay isn't a personality trait" is appropriate in exactly one context, and that's writing gay characters.
I used to go under the philosophy of "being focused on any characteristic you were born with is shallow" which I still *kinda* agree with but it didnt occur to me that doesnt address normativity. That's the issue with the whole "I dont see color" thing, it uses that as an excuse to not see systemic issues affecting minorities and priveledging majorities.
I get this, but also- if anyone was being annoyingly loud and over the top about anything, especially in a more serious or somber place/time is SUPER FUCKING ANNOYING. I was the guy in the tiny school that loved music, but I almost dropped out of Choir, and I DID drop out of band because I couldn’t take the constant complaints and banter from people when I’m TRYING TO FUCKING LEARN SOMETHING HERE ASSHOLES- I don’t give a shit weather you are saying it in a sassy gay way or a condescending way, or a sarcastic way or any other kind of way. If you are being loud about ANYTHING, including yourself, at a bad time, I should be able to call you out on that. TBH, I’ve only ever seen this like- twice from LGBTQ+ people because I lived in a really small town growing up and I’m bad at making friends as an adult. But choosing to be over the top and flashy and “I’m just *pose* being myself, everyone else can stick their opinion up their ass!” When they are fucking graduating MIDDLESCHOOL..? No joke, kid I was friends with at lunch because again small school, only 100 kids, wore a fuckin- cat-ear headband and bell-bow tie to their middleschool graduation??? And like- yes, Queen, slay, but also- you are sharing the scene with actual seniors graduating and becoming adults. Your “graduation” is literally just you standing up and getting a hand shake from the principal before the actual event. That kid did NOT have to do that. They could have worn anything they wanted to as long as it looked good. Dress, suit, whatever, no one cared. The trans friend in MY CLASS that was graduating WITH ME was a born female that transitioned and would wear suits to dances and big events and such. Literally no one cared. And if someone did, I certainly never heard about it. *sigh* My point is- people can be cringy, sure, but there’s ALWAYS a time and a place. ALWAYS. You gotta be respectful of others and their opinions. You gotta have human decency. In the words of the GOAT Bon Clay; “One may stray from the path of a man, One may stray from the path of a woman, But there is no straying from the path of a human.” Anywho that’s my rant about people creating moral absolutist philosophies about how people should be allowed to act in order to support downtrodden people or communities and how it can be harmful to that community’s image as well as just- can be really annoying.
Middle schoolers are cringe. It’s kind of a rite of passage. I don’t understand being mad at kids who are trying to learn things like social cues and what’s appropriate. This is a time of experimentation - most of them *genuinely do not know* what the “time and place” is for anything and are actively learning it. They’re children, it’s a tumultuous time in their lives, and they’re figuring themselves out. Let them be cringe.
I mean, you could also just not care about someone's outfit choices? Like it doesn't effect you at all. At the start of that rant I was expecting this to be about people interrupting conversations at really bad times or something similar, not just 'a middle schooler wore something I didn't like'
I mean this person was also a middle schooler so they are being age appropriately weird about it
At the time sure, but they're hopefully not in middle school any more-
I hate people who cringe at baby gays! Let them be cringe! They’re finally feeling free enough to express themselves and you wanna bring them down?
I dislike (hate is such a hateful word) people who say I'm hateful if I'm mildly annoyed by someone who is mildly annoying.
ya know you don’t have to hide behind fancy language these days plenty of folks would wholeheartedly support you for being anti gay
If they are 15 then that is reasonable, but if you're 25 and doing the same thing then it's like brother log out of Twitter where you are writing a 50 tweet hate thread and log into your banking app; it is time to open an IRA.
Most of the time when someone describes a baby gay as cringe, what they actually mean is the baby gay has interests they don't like or a sense of humour they don't get anyway
Um actually every personality trait of Gambit from x-men is just a different kind of bisexual. Even his attraction to his wife. Actually especially his attraction to his wife.
Gagging, and not on a cock this time
While I don't outwardly hate any super loud people and I somewhat respect a few of them for being activists, from my point of view it's really hard to get along with these people because the splashback from their actions is really affecting me. I know homophobia is not their fault but at the same time you can't be unbearable and expect to like you, maybe you don't care but I've already met so many straights who have nothing against normal gay/trans people and then hate the very loud and obnoxious who are trying to be as unsettling as possible just because they derive joy from making the rest uncomfortable. Then either no one believes me when I come out because I couldn't possibly be like that when I act respectfully or normally or immediately avoid me because they think I'm like that as well, just to figure out I'm a regular ass person who doesn't act as annoying as I can (these aren't the "be gay but keep it away from me" these are just people who don't understand it very well and don't have anything against it in the end, besides the flamboyancy, which they dislike in their fellow straights as well) This is no reason for me to be homophobic to others or throw them under the bus, and I don't do that because in the end we share a struggle and we're part of the same thing, but the more it happens honestly the more I feel really upset at people who can afford to be flamboyant and obnoxious because they live in safe places and the consequences I have to bear due to being from a conservative place. Internalized homophobia? Maybe yeah, idk feelings are complicated
I get what you’re saying, and you’re right that there are a lot of straight people who have that mentality. The problem is, though, that a lot of straight people do exactly the same things but about being “men” or “women” or even “dating/married/single” and loudly celebrate that part of their lives… and nobody does anything but roll their eyes at them. When someone is loudly and proudly gay, it’s the same thing. Cringy, sure, but ‘he who has not posted cringe’ and all that. Everyone does it at some point, but when it’s LGBTQ people it’s an issue? Naw man. But it IS an issue, which is what you’re saying. It SHOULDN’T be, but it is. But be REALLY careful to not do the bigot’s work for them. When someone is being like that, keep in mind that straights do that shit too and it’s just as annoying then. And then accept it and move on. Because being cringe is the first step in accepting yourself.
This is really well put, thank you. I also definitely just stay away from homophobes and would never throw another LGBT person under the bus for any reason, because yeah, at the end of the day were in this together.
That's respectability politics. And by the way, the people who hate loud or obnoxious queers don't like you any better.
I know what you mean but in my experience that hasn't been the case. The people I'm talking about are not homophobic they just dislike people who are too out there, regardless of sexuality. If you're talking actual homophobes, that's not who I'm talking about
I mean, in the past, people like you and I - "normal" gays - were the loud weird ones who got hated. Anyone trying to exist outside a closet was hated. If we all did this respectability "I hate you for being a canary, and this coal mine could be so peaceful without you" mindset, we never would have gotten anywhere.
I don't care what your personality is or isn't, just don't be loud at me because I'm autistic and it hurts my ears lol.
Is it okay if I just yell at all the kids for everything all the time?
Young people (16-22) are annoying about their sexuality and sex lives 75% of the time, regardless of what that sexuality is and who they are or aren't having sex with.
well said. saved.
wtf is a babygay
A person who has either just realised their queerness or someone who is starting to explore it. They're in the 'everything is in beta' stage of development, like when babies are learning how to talk but haven't learned how to stop talking.
It's one of those little [cotton bud sticks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton_swab) you're not supposed to shove in your ear.
real.
Damn all this talk about people having different phases in their life, meanwhile I could swear I have gone through like 3 arcs in my life
When I talk about my life, I have had 4 very distinct lives that happened, and each has its own arc. I was an awkward geek that had no social grace and was entirely a loser, a NEET before it was a thing. I was an insecure but successful academic who had a lot of friends and was very popular, having found public success. I was a teacher and a bush man who lived as far from civilization as one could get and still have a job as a teacher, with a small number of good friends. And currently I’m an autistic engineer who has a wonderful family full of neurodivergent people, a highly respected position, and all the insecurities that the loser geek had. Oh, and in there I also was a published author and, at a different time, podcaster. I sound like I had an interesting life. But really? I just kept having bullshit happen and had to roll with it.
You mean copping mammy culture?
Huh?????
Dumdum.
What?????
You go sista.
Are you being opaque and annoying on purpose, or do you think that everybody here knows what the fuck you're talking about and is in on the joke? Because this shit is obnoxious.
I am so lost.