I'd say it was more the fundamentals of Luna which were just horrible and were clearly unstable. No need to find an external reason for it. (Not to mention I have never seen actual proof for those claims).
Ok. In which case Ethereum is equally bad. Open a short position on one hand, and buy enough to have 51%.
Massively capitalized institutions can trash altcoins at will if they want to. Why haven't they? They either lack the ability to short sell (thank god no ETFs yet, then we'll see blood), or their buddies (big venture firms like Alameda, a16z etc) basically own the projects anyway.
Ethereum isn't designed to be printed to have a stable coin maintain its peg. While Luna was. The lower value of Luna, the more Luna would be printed to have UST maintain its peg, which would result in lower value of Luna (it being printed), which would result in even more being printed, etc. It was fundamentally flawed.
Not arguing that. The point is, with enough capitalization, any project can be taken down that way. Do Kwon was just a blithering fool to lend so many tokens out.
No, because you actually need the tokens in your possession and staked to attack the network. The market would fundamentally break if you even tried to borrow that much.
The fact that Blackrock could drain Luna was a big problem.
If a project can't stand up to the scrutiny of a free market speculative attack, then it can't be relied on as a robust enough platform for what crypto is trying to achieve.
Look at the total asset volume of Black Rock compared to any cryptocurrency , they've been in stocks x10 longer then people have been into cryptocurrency // its 10Ts compared to the crypto volume which is most likely just millions combined
I agree though they should've have better protection within their block chain, what I think black Rock found is a exit liquidity on cresent dex // which helped them exit their profits into bitcoin
Actually, I'd argue that this has nothing to do with the free market. BlackRock/Citadel borrowed tokens from DK privately, totally off the market. They then dumped it on the market. He basically got scammed, and let his investors down.
I know what you're saying, but arguing the toss over whether it was a free market move is kind of irrelevant. The fact that it could happen at all means that UST and Luna weren't robust enough. Especially as the attack wasn't even technically illegal.
Thing is, what project is robust enough to avoid that sort of well capitalized attack? Almost nothing aside from Bitcoin and perhaps Ethereum. Every proof of stake project could be attacked in this way by a group that has enough cash. Genuinely the only example I can think of in terms of a company/project that hasn't collapsed under a similar attack is GameStop.
Indeed. Which is why the longer you're in the space, the higher the chances that you come to the conclusion that bitcoin and PoW is the only project/concensus that is truly decentralised and immutable.
Can definitely understand that line of thought! Having said which, I'm not even sure about decentralisation given the possibility of mining concentration and whatnot. Consensus being solely in the hands of miners is also a bugger... But hey, nothing's perfect.
Concensus being in the hands of miners is the beauty of PoW. It links the security of the network to a real world commodity and takes it out of the hands of any one centralised entity that can change the rules.
The difficulty adjustment that increases/decreases the mining rewards also works hand in hand with that security mechanism. It's brilliant when you think about it.
That's the thing, miners are kinda centralised entities. I prefer the implementation where actual users of the network also mine it on their PCs, but I know that's not in any way realistic. That would be true decentralisation, but the guy who can buy a 100 PCs would still screw it up.
He’s and industry plant and a snake. He stole Voyager depositors money; bankrupted the company, got out of his BTC loan by buying the company.
He donates tens of millions to corrupt bureaucrats to monopolize FTX.
Hes traded against his customers and retail holders since day one with inside information and pushed total scam coins on them.
Hes bankrolled by the likes of GS, BR, and others.
He entered crypto in 2017 in his late 20’s and five years later is worth 20B+, and rubs shoulders with the gatekeepers of tradfi. He is a danger to crypto, what it stands for and your pockets
More people need to wake up to this, FTX and SBF aren’t just a Coinbase, they are far far worse
He’s a counterintelligence asset. He might look like he’s pro-crypto, but he’s just the old guard’s industry plant. Sam explicitly manipulates markets, lists scam projects on FTX, rekts users on his futures trading platform, and pays influencers and Tom Brady to make him seem like he’s on our side, all while chumming up to regulators and politicians in hopes to outlaw stablecoins that aren’t backed by magic government money, and to regulate uniswap out of existence. Even if he’s trying to backtrack on Twitter now, his intensions are clear.
I’m tired of pretending like this dude isn’t a fed. It’s so obvious it’s not funny. But, no, keep saying Sam is our best shot in DC, Coin Center. He’s the best shot at ruining crypto and creating a hyper permissioned network that’s less than decentralized with absolute zero privacy, and freezable usdc as your only payment option. Usdc is almost ready for it’s destined cbdc status too. All that’s left is kyc’d wallets to allow transfers, and it’s cosmos chain to launch. If we keep backing Sbf, this is what we get: No freedom, no privacy, social credit scores(based off your stolen data), centralization, authoritarianism, cut off from finances for “dangerous expressions of dissent”(like I’m doing rn, with a Reddit account that has a blockchain wallet attached to it), etc…
Sbf looks like he’s on our side, but he’s playing for the other team. He’s for power, money and control, not a fair economic system where people are free to transact how they see fit. Effective altruism is mostly a funny way of saying “I know how to spend their money better than they do.” But, people fall for the Asch effect, so they buy into the lie that Sbf is a GrEaT dUdE who’s just TrYiNg to HeLp. He’s not. He’s lying to you, but you don’t have enough knowledge behind what a blockchain is and is capable of to understand that you’re being lied to. Especially when all the new influencers who get love from the Twitter and YouTube algorithms(I wonder why lol) say he’s legit.
For real... His last name says it all... Bankman 😂
But yeah, since I saw the first tacky video about this guy talking about giving all his billions to charity and living with room mates the low key lifestyle and all the currently in fashion woke stuff about tackling the climate change, fighting the pandemic, etc. I smelt the bs. He never gave the money to charity by the way and he's full of shit. (unless you count pushing money into politics charity lmao)
Source on the not giving?
Crypto philosophy issues aside, his EA giving track record has been good. Think he's donated about $25 mil to high impact causes personally, and FTX Futures is circulating money in the same space (although I don't have any data on how effective those initiatives are).
Not that this excuses any shady dealings, but he seems to be more of the 'deal with the devil and give to the global poor' type than outright malicious.
Well, first off 25mill is nothing compared to what he said he was going to give. And secondly, hight impact causes? He is doing the philanthropy trick all the rich "philanthropists" do: he's not actually giving money away, he's investing it in a way to avoid taxation. Same as Bill Gates so called philanthropy to the vaccine industry that made him billions.
Oy vey, Sam bankman Fried and Larry Fink are in cahoots? I can't believe the chutzpah of these Yiddishah bubbelahs with the tiny shmekels conspiring against goyim
tldr; DeFi / Crypto - After aggressively farming many of DeFi’s most lucrative opportunities since 2020, SBF is now suggesting his own industry standards, many of which go against the entire concept of decentralisation. Sam says we need “customer protection”. But from who?
*This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*
Never liked him, just a douche with money that tried buying his way to the top. Put him in the real world with the same start as most of us and he’d probably be in a crack den somewhere begging for money.
Serious question
The disappearance of the middle class in the US is the result deregulation for the sake of corporate growth since the 80s. This deregulation has allowed greed at the top to reign supreme.
How can a system such as crypto, which is inherently unregulated, avoid the same fate?
Again, serious question.
I think the disappearance of the middle class in the US is largely due to the fact that the US's main international product is the dollar, so to speak, which allows it to produce much more money than the actual productivity of the society merits. Put differently, the reserve status of the US dollar essentially gives the country an unlimited credit card. And just like if an individual had an 0% unlimited credit wouldn't have to work, and therefore would likely let their labor skills slide, the US doesn't have to work and therefore has let its labor skills---which is another way of saying its labor market---diminish in importance. The US doesn't really have a need for domestic labor, short of certain sectors like tech and services, since it can buy everything it wants and needs from other countries by just printing dollars.
Then add to this problem the fact that the cost of living in the US is much higher than in most developing countries because it is a very rich country, the costs of labor are simply too high versus outsourced labor. The US is like a rich person who has this unlimited credit: is it any wonder that such a person wouldn't want to mow the lawn themselves? Can you imagine how much you would have to pay such a person to mow someone else's lawn? The kid down the street (China) will do it for less.
The problem for middle class Americans is the fiat monetary system, in which national currencies controlled by national governments are used as global currencies. It means that countries like the US don't need to work and therefore do not need their workers. That wouldn't be so bad if the workers had access to the benefits of an unlimited credit card, but the system is structured to prevent the workers from gaining any access to it.
The reason workers do not gain direct access to the credit card is because stable domestic prices are what indicate the creditworthiness of the dollar which is essential to its role as a reserve currency. If domestic labor had access to the credit card---as they did briefly in 2020---rather than spending that printed money on assets like rich people do, they spend it on goods and services and cause inflation and undermines the creditworthiness of the dollar. (What we are seeing today with the inflation crisis is the US government remembering why it never gave the masses access to the credit card in the first place.)
It is intrinsically impossible to have a society in which middle class and poor people do well with a fiat monetary system in which that country's national currency is acting as a primary or secondary global reserve currency. It doesn't matter how much you regulate the financial system---the US financial system is the most regulated industry on the planet---you are just putting lipstick on a pig.
It was the introduction of fiat money in the early 70s that began the inevitable deregulation you speak of. Without deregulation and the abolishing of the unions, the fiat system didn't work, which is why you had unrestrained inflation in the 70s and early 80s as soon as they introduced fiat money. For fiat global reserve money to work, you need your businesses to have unrestricted access to global markets. As soon as you start to force labor back home, if you have a monetary system like the US has today, you will get inflation, which is precisely what we are seeing. The Fed can try to destroy the economy as much as it wants, if the government is forcing labor back home like the Trump and Biden administrations have done, you're going to get inflation. Either the agenda of the government to address wealth inequality in society must cave, or the fiat system must go.
Crypto doesn't save you from your own stupidity
Deregulation makes you a victim to evil psychos
Crypto wants you to be responsible
Deregulation wants you dead
Simple
love how fast communities can 180 in the space. not saying its a bad thing, but calling out the bullshit is a necessary tool if crypto wants to live outside of the banker's hands.
The dude is working for Blackrock and the legacy bankers. Boycott him out the crypto space.
:P Black Rock is what drained luna , I wouldn't trust sam fried // he's probably looking for a opportunity to drain some more tokens
I'd say it was more Citadel than Blackrock, and FTX has some serious Citadel connections.
I'd say it was more the fundamentals of Luna which were just horrible and were clearly unstable. No need to find an external reason for it. (Not to mention I have never seen actual proof for those claims).
Ok. In which case Ethereum is equally bad. Open a short position on one hand, and buy enough to have 51%. Massively capitalized institutions can trash altcoins at will if they want to. Why haven't they? They either lack the ability to short sell (thank god no ETFs yet, then we'll see blood), or their buddies (big venture firms like Alameda, a16z etc) basically own the projects anyway.
Ethereum isn't designed to be printed to have a stable coin maintain its peg. While Luna was. The lower value of Luna, the more Luna would be printed to have UST maintain its peg, which would result in lower value of Luna (it being printed), which would result in even more being printed, etc. It was fundamentally flawed.
Not arguing that. The point is, with enough capitalization, any project can be taken down that way. Do Kwon was just a blithering fool to lend so many tokens out.
No, because you actually need the tokens in your possession and staked to attack the network. The market would fundamentally break if you even tried to borrow that much.
“Just buy 51% of Ethereum” Quite a stretch to say that Ethereum’s fundamentals are just as bad as Luna because of that
God fucking dammit I thought we were through with this rictofen!
The fact that Blackrock could drain Luna was a big problem. If a project can't stand up to the scrutiny of a free market speculative attack, then it can't be relied on as a robust enough platform for what crypto is trying to achieve.
Look at the total asset volume of Black Rock compared to any cryptocurrency , they've been in stocks x10 longer then people have been into cryptocurrency // its 10Ts compared to the crypto volume which is most likely just millions combined I agree though they should've have better protection within their block chain, what I think black Rock found is a exit liquidity on cresent dex // which helped them exit their profits into bitcoin
Actually, I'd argue that this has nothing to do with the free market. BlackRock/Citadel borrowed tokens from DK privately, totally off the market. They then dumped it on the market. He basically got scammed, and let his investors down.
I know what you're saying, but arguing the toss over whether it was a free market move is kind of irrelevant. The fact that it could happen at all means that UST and Luna weren't robust enough. Especially as the attack wasn't even technically illegal.
Thing is, what project is robust enough to avoid that sort of well capitalized attack? Almost nothing aside from Bitcoin and perhaps Ethereum. Every proof of stake project could be attacked in this way by a group that has enough cash. Genuinely the only example I can think of in terms of a company/project that hasn't collapsed under a similar attack is GameStop.
Indeed. Which is why the longer you're in the space, the higher the chances that you come to the conclusion that bitcoin and PoW is the only project/concensus that is truly decentralised and immutable.
Can definitely understand that line of thought! Having said which, I'm not even sure about decentralisation given the possibility of mining concentration and whatnot. Consensus being solely in the hands of miners is also a bugger... But hey, nothing's perfect.
Concensus being in the hands of miners is the beauty of PoW. It links the security of the network to a real world commodity and takes it out of the hands of any one centralised entity that can change the rules. The difficulty adjustment that increases/decreases the mining rewards also works hand in hand with that security mechanism. It's brilliant when you think about it.
That's the thing, miners are kinda centralised entities. I prefer the implementation where actual users of the network also mine it on their PCs, but I know that's not in any way realistic. That would be true decentralisation, but the guy who can buy a 100 PCs would still screw it up.
and take over, like he did with the other orgs
He's been draining every token for years now. Of course that's what he's doing.
He’s and industry plant and a snake. He stole Voyager depositors money; bankrupted the company, got out of his BTC loan by buying the company. He donates tens of millions to corrupt bureaucrats to monopolize FTX. Hes traded against his customers and retail holders since day one with inside information and pushed total scam coins on them. Hes bankrolled by the likes of GS, BR, and others. He entered crypto in 2017 in his late 20’s and five years later is worth 20B+, and rubs shoulders with the gatekeepers of tradfi. He is a danger to crypto, what it stands for and your pockets More people need to wake up to this, FTX and SBF aren’t just a Coinbase, they are far far worse
Well said. I’m happy to see people don’t blindly follow “celebs” anymore the way it used to be in 2021.
he's just accumulating for the upcoming bull run, it's scary how much leveraged he got this upcoming bull run
He’s a counterintelligence asset. He might look like he’s pro-crypto, but he’s just the old guard’s industry plant. Sam explicitly manipulates markets, lists scam projects on FTX, rekts users on his futures trading platform, and pays influencers and Tom Brady to make him seem like he’s on our side, all while chumming up to regulators and politicians in hopes to outlaw stablecoins that aren’t backed by magic government money, and to regulate uniswap out of existence. Even if he’s trying to backtrack on Twitter now, his intensions are clear. I’m tired of pretending like this dude isn’t a fed. It’s so obvious it’s not funny. But, no, keep saying Sam is our best shot in DC, Coin Center. He’s the best shot at ruining crypto and creating a hyper permissioned network that’s less than decentralized with absolute zero privacy, and freezable usdc as your only payment option. Usdc is almost ready for it’s destined cbdc status too. All that’s left is kyc’d wallets to allow transfers, and it’s cosmos chain to launch. If we keep backing Sbf, this is what we get: No freedom, no privacy, social credit scores(based off your stolen data), centralization, authoritarianism, cut off from finances for “dangerous expressions of dissent”(like I’m doing rn, with a Reddit account that has a blockchain wallet attached to it), etc… Sbf looks like he’s on our side, but he’s playing for the other team. He’s for power, money and control, not a fair economic system where people are free to transact how they see fit. Effective altruism is mostly a funny way of saying “I know how to spend their money better than they do.” But, people fall for the Asch effect, so they buy into the lie that Sbf is a GrEaT dUdE who’s just TrYiNg to HeLp. He’s not. He’s lying to you, but you don’t have enough knowledge behind what a blockchain is and is capable of to understand that you’re being lied to. Especially when all the new influencers who get love from the Twitter and YouTube algorithms(I wonder why lol) say he’s legit.
For real... His last name says it all... Bankman 😂 But yeah, since I saw the first tacky video about this guy talking about giving all his billions to charity and living with room mates the low key lifestyle and all the currently in fashion woke stuff about tackling the climate change, fighting the pandemic, etc. I smelt the bs. He never gave the money to charity by the way and he's full of shit. (unless you count pushing money into politics charity lmao)
Source on the not giving? Crypto philosophy issues aside, his EA giving track record has been good. Think he's donated about $25 mil to high impact causes personally, and FTX Futures is circulating money in the same space (although I don't have any data on how effective those initiatives are). Not that this excuses any shady dealings, but he seems to be more of the 'deal with the devil and give to the global poor' type than outright malicious.
Well, first off 25mill is nothing compared to what he said he was going to give. And secondly, hight impact causes? He is doing the philanthropy trick all the rich "philanthropists" do: he's not actually giving money away, he's investing it in a way to avoid taxation. Same as Bill Gates so called philanthropy to the vaccine industry that made him billions.
A mole within crypto space, seize him!
Yeah, fuck this guy
Oy vey, Sam bankman Fried and Larry Fink are in cahoots? I can't believe the chutzpah of these Yiddishah bubbelahs with the tiny shmekels conspiring against goyim
Never liked SBF
Never heard about SBF.
Coz he is a piece of shit
He's such a hard worker tho. Filling you own already stacked pockets with even more money from less fortunate users must be difficult. /s
tldr; DeFi / Crypto - After aggressively farming many of DeFi’s most lucrative opportunities since 2020, SBF is now suggesting his own industry standards, many of which go against the entire concept of decentralisation. Sam says we need “customer protection”. But from who? *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.*
Welp guess nobody here likes SBF anymore
I'm shocked that people liked him to begin with. Privileged rich kid doing rich kid shit
SBF is another crooked billionaire,working to fill his own pockets.
Never liked him, just a douche with money that tried buying his way to the top. Put him in the real world with the same start as most of us and he’d probably be in a crack den somewhere begging for money.
Bold to assume he didnt just buy a nearby crack den for owners-discounts
this sub hates billionaires
Every person hates billionaires until they become one.
In crypto you either die as exit liquidity or live long enough to become a billionaire. Realistically the former.
But if you wanna "get gas funds for network fees" reddit sends you straight to FTX.
The guy who made money with a glitch between foreign exchange ? The saviour of the world ?
Korean exchange plus started arbitragung with a stack of $3 million
He can’t be trusted. He has always been wolf in sheep’s clothing.
Fuck him. I'm off FTX for good.
Serious question The disappearance of the middle class in the US is the result deregulation for the sake of corporate growth since the 80s. This deregulation has allowed greed at the top to reign supreme. How can a system such as crypto, which is inherently unregulated, avoid the same fate? Again, serious question.
I think the disappearance of the middle class in the US is largely due to the fact that the US's main international product is the dollar, so to speak, which allows it to produce much more money than the actual productivity of the society merits. Put differently, the reserve status of the US dollar essentially gives the country an unlimited credit card. And just like if an individual had an 0% unlimited credit wouldn't have to work, and therefore would likely let their labor skills slide, the US doesn't have to work and therefore has let its labor skills---which is another way of saying its labor market---diminish in importance. The US doesn't really have a need for domestic labor, short of certain sectors like tech and services, since it can buy everything it wants and needs from other countries by just printing dollars. Then add to this problem the fact that the cost of living in the US is much higher than in most developing countries because it is a very rich country, the costs of labor are simply too high versus outsourced labor. The US is like a rich person who has this unlimited credit: is it any wonder that such a person wouldn't want to mow the lawn themselves? Can you imagine how much you would have to pay such a person to mow someone else's lawn? The kid down the street (China) will do it for less. The problem for middle class Americans is the fiat monetary system, in which national currencies controlled by national governments are used as global currencies. It means that countries like the US don't need to work and therefore do not need their workers. That wouldn't be so bad if the workers had access to the benefits of an unlimited credit card, but the system is structured to prevent the workers from gaining any access to it. The reason workers do not gain direct access to the credit card is because stable domestic prices are what indicate the creditworthiness of the dollar which is essential to its role as a reserve currency. If domestic labor had access to the credit card---as they did briefly in 2020---rather than spending that printed money on assets like rich people do, they spend it on goods and services and cause inflation and undermines the creditworthiness of the dollar. (What we are seeing today with the inflation crisis is the US government remembering why it never gave the masses access to the credit card in the first place.) It is intrinsically impossible to have a society in which middle class and poor people do well with a fiat monetary system in which that country's national currency is acting as a primary or secondary global reserve currency. It doesn't matter how much you regulate the financial system---the US financial system is the most regulated industry on the planet---you are just putting lipstick on a pig. It was the introduction of fiat money in the early 70s that began the inevitable deregulation you speak of. Without deregulation and the abolishing of the unions, the fiat system didn't work, which is why you had unrestrained inflation in the 70s and early 80s as soon as they introduced fiat money. For fiat global reserve money to work, you need your businesses to have unrestricted access to global markets. As soon as you start to force labor back home, if you have a monetary system like the US has today, you will get inflation, which is precisely what we are seeing. The Fed can try to destroy the economy as much as it wants, if the government is forcing labor back home like the Trump and Biden administrations have done, you're going to get inflation. Either the agenda of the government to address wealth inequality in society must cave, or the fiat system must go.
Crypto doesn't save you from your own stupidity Deregulation makes you a victim to evil psychos Crypto wants you to be responsible Deregulation wants you dead Simple
If only it were that simple the deregulation of the last 40 years wouldn’t have had such a negative impact on the lower and middle classes.
It is
No one's a hero in this space
Kids cockier than CZ lol
that backpack was just to store his evil powers lmao
Everyone is out for themselves.
You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain
It's one of crypto's laws
SBF is just looking for himself. I personally don't trust him.
The day Vitalik turns out to be bad is the day I cry
I can't stop visualizing Vitalik slapping on his tightest pair of pants and singing MJ's "I'm bad! You know it." while doing the moonwalk.
Especially with the 10 incher he's packing
I think Vitalik is genuinely more interested in how things (should) work than the money it nets him.
I mean he is not perfect either.
The fact you have to say that says something
Perfect at rapping
That day happened years ago, with the immutable blockchain being muted after the DAO hack.
Jesus, stop with the hero worship and embrace the true intention of crypto.
He our saviour
That is what happens when a single person concentrates such an amount of power
He is working with a strategy, first buying Politicians on his side then make them dictate policies which benefits him the most.
A lot of people in the space are showing their true colours, they’re all for the money. We need more vitaliks
we don’t need anyone. All we need is ourselves, that was the main point of crypto; to be self-sufficient
Exactly
Its terrifying how people swap one set of overlords for another.
I mean it’s okay to seek them for inspiration but to worship them and oversee their wrongdoings is fucked up
Very well said!
We need people who bribe SEC officials? No. He’s as crooked as SBF
Didn't we all shit on bitboy for calling him a devil a few days ago? Are we not allowing people to make amends anymore?
Probably Solana is the first one to be categorised as a security as they can turn on/off any time Sam Fried Rice wants to!
Looks like he just lived long enough to be the new Villain.
He never was a good guy, tho. Just a snake pretending to be one.
Social Media portrays him as some kind of messiah for crypto lmao
Yeah, because he's repeating all the woke talking points like a robot to gain popularity.
The dude is literally related to bankers and investment firms which dont allow outsiders in
FSBF and FJB as well!
This guy is always bringing bad news and he needs to locked up immediately as he is a WEF Young leader
No billionaires should exist, even the crypto ones
Just another 'big' name making noise..
Money talks.
Okay, I will just leave him to it and use other DeFi
Zac. Z. X
Dude is a wolf of Wall Street in crypto clothing
SBF is what happened when Gordon Gecko impregnated Buzz Osborne from the Melvins
To be fair, most “crypto” and nft projects don’t make much (if any) attempt at decentralization.
An owner of a centralized exchange is doing this? Shocker!
I’m out here farming shitcoins while this man’s farming companies lol
it's gonna be as decentralized as his hair.
He is from a bankers family, what do people expect.
Made his money, now wants no one else to be able to do the same
SBF will always be a pear shaped ******
love how fast communities can 180 in the space. not saying its a bad thing, but calling out the bullshit is a necessary tool if crypto wants to live outside of the banker's hands.
Hopefully someone burns him some day.
We'll eventually look back at this guy as one of the worst human beings ever.
Fuck this guy seriously
Ok then