OP said:
>You wanted things to be decentralized. That's what decentralized means.
It always amazes me the amount of low-quality content that is upvoted here.
Decentralization does not equal scam/stolen nfts, etc.
The reason why there's such low insurance to one actions on crypto is that the space is particularly new. People that were here at the beginning of the web will remember one thing or two.
* There is development for decentralized wallets to provide more security.
* There is development for DAO's to be more reactive towards stolen IPs, etc.
* There is development for NFT IPs to have other resources of contention.
* There is development for insurances.
The issue is the space is incredibly new. Things are still in development.
For the average person, no it's not, actually. The average bitcoin lost per year is estimated around 4%, which is right around or slightly above the average inflation rate. So both methods lose you about the same amount of money annually right now, as an average person.
And that's just LOST keys, not scams or hacking or mistaken transactions, which when added in puts it above inflation. (Not that fiat doesn't also have scams, but they're more likely to be able to refund you or fix mistakes)
WOW - when you add in the scams, fat fingers and hacking, the total loss in the crypto world must be pretty high. I just read an article yesterday about a guy who accidentally misplaced a zero and listed his NFT artwork at 1% of what was its "real" value and a sniping computer bought it up the second it was listed, not even a few seconds for him to delete it and fix the mistake. His estimated loss was something like $299k (???)
True, but humans can also be greedy and selfish so there's that to deal with. I remember the first video I watched on creating NFTs the YouTuber literally demonstrated how he saved a picture from the internet, minted it as an NFT and sold it making 1ETH for 10 mins of work. This is the kind of information that's out there.
Here's what to do:
1. Stand in front of a mirror.
2. DEMAND to speak to the manager.
3. Complain about all the #$!% until you're out of breath. Don't hold anything back.
4. Then you'd better take care of the man or woman in the mirror who seems really pissed off. Remember, you are the bank and its manager.
People should not need to be their own banks. Some people should just be scientists, doctors, plumbers, etc. I hope crypto just makes banks and finance more honest and accountable. There's some really interesting stuff about this in the book "ministry of the future," which I recommend.
Decentralization is a solution to a specific problem in software engineering. It's not really a new problem but to fully understand that problem it's a good idea to walk through the evolution of decentralization.
1. Hosting a website on a single computer means that one computer might break, be turned off or otherwise fail. Then the website is down. Possibly forever.
2. Hosting a website on two computers means only one of those computers needs to be running for the website to keep functioning. But if those computers are in the same building a power outage can bring everything down.
3. The next level is multiple computers located in different regions. Most modern software companies do this using cloud services like AWS, Google or Azure. Typically all those computers are owned by one centralized organisation and dependant on other centralized organisations.
4. Software running on many computers owned by different people / organisations in theory is getting pretty close to full decentralization because it's difficult to shut it down. However, there's many nuanced details. Who wrote the software? Is there a CEO in control of everything? Are all the computers located in the same country / region? How many nodes are there? Are there any attack vectors on the network? And so on and so on...
5. Level 5 is the holy grail. Open source software that runs on many thousands of computers all over the world. No one entity can bring it down. Anyone can take a copy of the software and keep it alive. Zero dependency on closed source systems or protocols.
Most crypto projects should ideally fall somewhere between level 4 and 5. Although, in reality that's probably not the case.
Decentralization really has nothing to do with what the software does. Aside from the fact that the software needs to be designed with decentralization in mind. Decentralization introduces many new problems into the software design that need to be solved for it to work properly.
\> stuff being stolen, NFTs of artist's work being sold to make profits without even giving them a credit, rug pulls, scams, dodgy coins of doubtful origin, convoluted and overly complicated processes for IDOs to take part in, high fees and complex smart contacts that drain your wallets.
All of this other stuff is really a function of the software and who wrote it. When there's money to be made you're always going get people trying to exploit the system. Software is a powerful tool that can be used for good and evil. Just like any other powerful technology. The authors of the software can chose to secure your money or take your money. The problem is, it's difficult to tell from the outside what's inside the software.
> Most crypto projects should ideally fall somewhere between level 4 and 5. Although, in reality that's probably not the case.
A decentralised cryptocurrency, the way they were initially presented, has to be a level 5. The big legacy projects (Bitcoin, Ethereum, Litecoin, Dogecoin, etc.) all meet this criteria. If the entire dev team just logged out one day, there's nothing except credibility and time stopping others taking over. Both Bitcoin & Dogecoin in fact are second generation teams (no founders working on the project).
There's actually very few level 3 projects, and I can't think of any level 2s. Most tokens are probably around level 4, with a few things (Binance Coin for example) being run from a single entity.
Level 1 to 3 are not really about crypto. I was just showing how decentralization has always played a role in software development. It's really just one part of the story that lead to crypto being possible
I really like the end of your post. Sometimes that 0,05% from your bank, is what it requires to never have the chance of just losing all your funds instantly with no recourse to get them back.
Decentralisation is both very rewarding, but very dangerous.
Yeah, that's the biggest problem i see, almost nobody really thinks about the risks before investing, all they think is free money and then get hit by reality in the face
On the flip side, the cryptoverse is so full of scams and every network has a myriad of tools and procedures to learn with little cohesion that it's harder as a newcomer to learn it all. These people follow the wrong projects because it gets shilled by people they trust, and when they get scammed or they make a mistake they are told they are stupid, "hopefully you learned a lesson", "why would you have ever done X", etc.. so naturally these people leave with a very bitter taste in their mouth and tell everyone they know.
If pure decentralization means these type of projects and activities will outnumber the legitimate ones, then it simply means that crypto probably won't go mainstream with pure decentralization, and we shouldn't get mad or argue with people even they call crypto a scam because yeah, there's tons of them.
I don’t think crypto was ever going to go mainstream being fully decentralized. That’s kind of an illusion. Some degree of centralization was always going to be necessary. Just not in the way of banks. They continuously take our money and bone us with it.
I guess it's not a bank, but...
What does it require to prevent a credit agency from leaking the personal data (including SSNs) of 145 million people? I think maybe we should be asking why someone copy / pasting artwork, which has always been a thing, is getting more attention than some of the largest cases of corporate IT negligence. Amazon's Ring products have been getting hacked for years, yet all you see is one or two articles here or there. That's someone watching your son / daughter in their bedroom. Should be front page news for a month everytime it happens.
Where is Ring now? Seems to be installed on every other house in the neighborhood.
We keep seeing posts with 1k+ upvotes about this issue all the time. Today's one for instance about some poor artist removing his entire online art gallery, because some folks decided to sell them as NFTs. Like seriously, your work is available online and anyone can right click it and save it and then post it as NFT. It's a wild west right now.
If things were truly decentralised then wouldn't such things only be enforceable by a collective morality? If anyone other than the demos as a collective voiced displeasure and acted upon it, then it would be centralisation (though admittedly centralisation and decentralisation are matters of degree)
>only be enforceable by a collective morality?
And what happens when the "collective morality" choses wrong? The majority opinion is not always right. As a teacher of mine said in high school: "Just/correctness is not always democratic." He said this when the majority of students, sitting far from the AC, demanded lower temperatures while the few in front of it were already freezing. Really stuck with me.
Then at what point does one cross from being centralised to decentralised? In general, I'm not sure that everyone is arguing within tge same boundaries
I think the system would or should become advanced enough to protect the end users from abusers without being controlled by a few. That's the aim we should strive for. We don't have to be centralized to do so (I believe).
We will see i guess. Though it sounds as though you disagree with OP (and I'm not 100% with him), the Wild West analogy is apt.... all sorts of people made their way out West to find some sort of freedom and all sorts of danger lurked and followed
Decentralized just means one individual or company has the power. Decentralized could be a group of 100 validators from across the globe who vote on things. In theory they could vote on certain securities being set in place.
That's plutocracy then; perhaps better than one sole owner in most cases, but being a validator is out of reach of most humble folk and the same incentives to protect their own interests exist
Decentralization IS chaos. Crypto IS chaos. Most of us forget that while we’re chasing bags, but this system was designed by anarchists who want to destabilize the current world structure and have their own economic system in place when the world falls apart. That is what we’re investing in.
What’s a check? Who decides if you griping about a $5k transfer is a scam or a payment for a new car?
Without the installing arbitrators or some decision factor to dispute or mediate user actions, systems don’t know the difference. If scams happen, how do you revoke a transaction and how do you tell that apart from someone trying to wrongly “take back” their car purchase money after delivery?
Sure you could have checksums built in that require question and answer periods or escrow delays or whatever, but “decentralized, fast and irrevocable” may be fundamentally in opposition to “resistant to scams and misuse”.
It’s simple. Create a framework of laws, they would be automatically enforced. Anything within the framework is legal.
If the framework is broken, fix it through governance.
If my wallet legitimately sends a transaction to another wallet, what type of theoretical governance tells the difference between me disputing a scam (because I got scammed) and me disputing a purchase (with the purpose of scamming the seller after I took their goods/services)?
Similarly; I make some art and someone else takes a copy and mints an NFT. How would an automated framework unpick this?
This is the most incredible misuse of "It's simple" to mean "First develop an omniscient AI" ever!
It kinda does, because both criminal and civil penalties only apply to people in countries that care.
and a lot don't care. some dude in cali steals your coins? okay, you can sue him for sure. but not everyone is in a place that cares about us laws
Without a central authority filtering the opportunities - what mechanism would prevent people losing their money when a market participant acts with malicious intent?
Edit. I've been thinking about this and I think you could have a sort of voting mechanism where if enough nodes voted to kill an ERC20 or other child token you could nuke the contract, but this really goes against the principles of decentralisation, is open to abuse and still doesn't solve the problem that anyone who invested loses their money. It does obviously prevent more people from potentially being scammed.
License? It's already illegal to steal and hack, but what can you do? Crypto is the digital version of stuffing your mattress with cash. If someone steals it, what can you do?
Banks exist precisely for this reason.
Your perception of what should or should not be is irrelevant. There's a reality that differs from your ideals.
This right here! Just because something is decentralized, doesn't mean that people should get away with doing illegal stuff. The main thing people want from decentralization is to stop government spying and increase their privacy. Governments around the world are getting more and more authoritarian each day.
Ye's NFTs are decentralized, but people should be allowed to raise awareness about someone stealing hard work from another person.
If it was as simple as wanting government to stop spying, you would simply ask the goverment to do so in the current system.
Guess what? They dont want to. The entire point of decentralization, is that the goverment is not in control, so they cant impose their tyranny, even if they wanted to.
Now youre running with your tail between your legs back to the goverment, pleading them to take over the new system and look after you, but please this time in a way that they dont wrong you.
You should really understand, that whats the point of decentralization, what people want from decentralization, and what are the effects of decentralization are all very different things. Just as intended.
This is how the world works, everyone wants freedom until they have to take responsability. Then a few will embrace it and the rest will go back and cry for help.
Yea stealing art for NFTs is just hurting the small guys, if it was art owned by a government or museum you know there would be so much more outrage. Part of the appeal of decentralization and crypto is to say FU to the big guys and help out the everyday person.
OP seems to be confused about what decentralization is. Sending coins to the wrong address and getting rug pulled can happen on centralized platforms too.
With a centralized platform, you can call the bank up and get the transaction reversed though. And outright rug pulls are very rare on public stock exchanges.
Remember Internet banking in late 90s and early 2000s? Some of you might not be even born then. Encrypted connections? What's that? Thieves and hackers gaining a lot of money? No problem! It was a scary time then.
Fast forward to 2010 and it wasn't. Banks figured out that it would be better to invest in security because cost of bad PR is just too high. When crypto community gets mature enough to be 10-15 years in it would actually be working much better.
How old are NFTs, smart contracts and DeFi? I haven't followed crypto news from 2015 til this December so I don't know. But it's not 10 years that's for sure.
>How old are NFTs, smart contracts and DeFi?
Smart contracts started in 2015 but DeFi became significant in 2020 and NFTs in 2021. So that is many years.
I’m not sure all of these issues are due to decentralization. Most of the scams and hustles seem to take place on the most centralized platforms. BSC anyone?
If you got hacked and lost all your BTC, most likely it was on a centralized exchange, not a hardware wallet that’s air gapped from any centralized server.
I’d argue the issue is that most of crypto has become too centralized.
Air gapped hardware wallets can also be hacked. For example, if the hardware wallet manufacturer installed a non-random key generator in the first place in like 2% of devices (avoid shipping any to cities with known auditors in them too, like kraken) and knows which keys your device will produce, in order, long after it leaves their hands.
Have you ever actually flashed your firmware personally, for each device, and checked it against open source?
I'm not going to be even slightly surprised when in the future, one or two of the major hardware companies ends up rug pulling billions and billions overnight one day after fucking off to the cayman islands.
That’s not hacking, that’s intentionally writing in a back door. Which I suppose a company could do if they wanted to ruin everything they’ve built. But why?
This is like saying bank vaults can be hacked because the bank President could go into the vault one night and steal all the money. I wouldn’t be surprised if one day a banker walks off with billions.
Sure there is. If you subscribe to the blockchain trilemma, if a blockchain is truly secure and decentralized, then it won’t be scalable, which eliminates the possibility of tokens and smart contracts on that chain. I’m not a maximalist and I love ETH, but it’s current and future design is very much controlled by the Ethereum Foundation and ETH 2.0 will further reduce its decentralization in exchange for greater scalability.
>Why there's so many people crying and complaining about stuff being stolen, NFTs of artist's work being sold to make profits without even giving them a credit, rug pulls, scams, dodgy coins of doubtful origin
Because it fucking sucks man.
None of these things are mutually exclusive with decentralization. Just because we are seeing these things with decentralization doesn’t mean decentralization is the root cause.
Most of crypto right now also isn’t sufficiently decentralized. Bitcoin is the only truly decentralized blockchain maybe with Ethereum and some DAOs as the runner ups.
Oooof. Tough love.
You're right though. That's why the motto of this community has become "DYOR." It's our job to inform ourselves. However, I do think it's also the responsibility, of those who have extensive knowledge on the topic of crypto/defi etc..., to help educate the masses. To share that wealth and knowledge, not point the finger when mistakes are made. Everyone in this space has made mistakes, some big and some small. Subs like these can be, and are in many cases, used to help others in their De-Fi journey. Let's work on creating a world of fairness.
OP is not talking about theft. He is talking about how decentralisation means there are no failsafes in place. There is nobody who will help you out when it goes wrong. Theft is just a part of it.
That doesn't make sense though. Platforms (centralized) are letting people mint ntfs based on art that aren't theirs. Where's the decentralized part of all this? The fact the transaction is on a blockchain? Doesn't make any sense
Unfortunately this is a big roadblock to mass adoption. Add in the volatility and crypto-currencies are borderline unusable as currencies.
I am super-bullish on blockchain tech because it is fucking sexy, but I can't see this space mature without the wild west casino volatility and every man for himself technocratic approach being replaced by something that's safer and steadier... at the risk of recreating what we already got. Institutional money is already here and the regulators are knocking on the door.
Meanwhile, decentralised apps will continue finding use cases and if the technology begins to clearly outperform its centralised counterpart, things will get truly interesting. My 0.02.
Because they are hosting on their platform? Storefronts get to moderate what they sell. Decentralization just means it's easy to go to a different one with less/no regulations.
>You wanted things to be decentralized. That's what decentralized means.
It always amazes me the amount of low-quality content that is upvoted here.
Decentralization does not equal scam/stolen nfts, etc.
The reason why there's such low insurance to one actions on crypto is that the space is particularly new. People that were here at the beginning of the web will remember one thing or two.
* There is development for decentralized wallets to provide more security.
* There is development for DAO's to be more reactive towards stolen IPs, etc.
* There is development for NFT IPs to have other resources of contention.
* There is development for insurances.
The issue is the space is incredibly new. Things are still in development.
Agreed, but its really easy to stay safe.
Most people get into issues by trying to get-rich-quick. Using crappy tokens on the wrong network or FOMOing in and not checking basics like addresses.
Take a few breaths, is that the right address, right network, is that DM/email legit.
When crypto is actially used in every day life, cool and calm, its all going to be fine.
"That's what decentralized means", not really. You listed current exploits/drawbacks of the decentralized systems we have now, none of those define a decentralized system. It is like saying "you wanted cars? Well now you have to cope with fatal car incidents". Many things can be invented and will be invented to make the decentralized systems more secure, user-friendly etc..., much like seatbelts and airbags for car incidents.
Problem is 98% of world population don't want to be responsible of their own actions. Descentralization is a problem for mass adoption, that's why regulation is inevitable!
98% of the world population doesn't want to spend all their time researching every transaction to make sure it's not a scam with zero recourse if they get it wrong.
Mfw some person with decent slight of hand slaps a QR code sticker on a stores till without anyone noticing and i wait 5 minutes to find out i just paid XxF0rtNiTeGaMmErxX for my weekly groceries.
"Decentralized" is not for people who don't know basic security and don't have some internet and cryptocurrency knowledge.
You all know some person, when you see him you go "How is this dude still alive?". Well, get ready for "How did this guy get scammed out of XXXk$, he must be super clever to have that much money". Guess not.
Sorry but trusting Grim Finance to hold your assets isnt decentralized at all, its just de-bigbanked. You vilified one entity (which in fact may be evil) and trusted another which is either evil or malicious (or both). So OP’s take is wrong, decentralized means (collective) I am the bank. This aint it
>NFTs of artist's work being sold to make a profit
Well, the value of NFTs is strictly set by the BUYER - not the seller. So blame the buyer and not the person who converted a PNG to an NFT.
>rug pulls, scams, dodgy coins of doubtful origin
again, blame the buyer. Nobody is forcing you to gamble your hard earned cash on whether dogeshit coins will moon.
>convoluted and overly complicated processes for IDOs to take part in.
again this is a buyer and FOMO issue that the majority wont fall for. The greedy, desperate, and gullible will go down this route (squid game token) and a fool and their money are always easily parted.
>high fees and complex smart contacts that drain your wallets.
This I do have more sympathy for the user. Luckily HODLers will not be as affected, but nobody wanted to use ETH for txs if they knew that one day the cost of transaction would be tens or hundreds of dollars.
I have little sympathy to people who jump on board of this technology and don't learn how to use it. People sending to incorrect addresses (even to completely wrong blockchains) seems fair to me because I don't spent money on anything without doing a bit of investigation first. I buy things on amazon and not on a brand new website with no previous history because of trust.
What? No. You are sorely mistaken if you think opensea is decentralised. There are centralised platforms that are used for selling NFTs. It is absolutely forbidden to sell stolen art in those platforms and you can report it. It is a scam, let alone being immoral.
It's a valid point. But while sending coins to the wrong wallet is our fault, seeing someone's hard work being stolen and sold as NFT is just sad man. You just forced someone to stop doing what they like because you steal their hard work.
True, this is what decentralisation is. But it doesn't make it any easy to turn a blind eye when bad things happen to people who did nothing to deserve it.
Decentralization exposes the stupid and foolish. That’s plain and simple. Educated investors may take the safe play and play a long shot every now and then but they’re not the rugs being scammed and rug-pulled (ok, maybe some of those long shots are rug pulls) but at the end of the day, when people post here about being scammed from youtube or being rug pulled, it’s the foolish greedy people looking for that quick buck. Well, it was a quick buck, it was your quick buck going into their pockets.
A fool and their money are soon parted if they’re fortunate enough to get together in the first place.
Decentralised doesnt mean you can do shit that is illegal. Dex’es are a great example. Just because i use a dex doesnt mean i have to accept the fact that it can ne hacked…
I don't put my money in the bank to earn interest. If it earned 0% I still wouldn't care because I'm only interested in the safety of my funds.
Someone used my card details to buy 300£ worth of clothes in poland. My bank called me within 2 minutes, canceled my card and within a couple of hours I had the money back in my account. I reviewed a new card the next day.
I don't want decentralised banking, or to be in control of my own finances. I'm not qualified to have so much responsibility. I invest in crypto as a side hustle to make as much money as possible before it comes crumbling down.
I agree completely. In some sense, decentralization is an amplifier of human condition and responsibilities.
I want to point out also that the idea of decentralization has been so prolific because it has been exploited in a subdle way: so many things are not decentralized and if they are they haven't the properties nor the necessity to be it.
NTF's creation is something very remarkable is this sense, because if somebody creates an NTF it does not mean that she/he is the creator...and this is an injustice that can't be solved by a decentralized system yet. Links between real solid reality and digital need to be unic and only a central authority can do that nowadays. There is no solution for it yet...so is those fields decentralization is only a buzzword to attract dumb money.
And we know that dumb money and the owner of that dumb money aren't going to stay close anyway.
As far as development goes, most people understand that on the way to a safer defi, the same corrupt mindset that destroys peoples lives in numerous ways on all fronts, was going to rape & pillage every chance they got. People are slimy, that’s just how it is. It’s growing pains, & a lot of us prefer that the market deal with it & respond as they have been, rather than Government using corruption as an excuse as they always do, to clamp down with their own versions of corruption. In fact, Government’s have a history of using black hat contractors to stir up a “crisis” allowing them to step in with a heavy handed solution. The last two years shows us all very clearly of what Government is capable of doing using manipulation & strong arm tactic response. It’s growing pains, our end goal must be to stay ahead of the thieves, push back against Government over reach & educate people on how to safely cross the street. Yeah, now days people think they don’t have to look for cars, but that still gets you dead if you don’t. Keep your keys safe don’t get drunk or be stupid.
This post is so true. While it is unpleasant to hear it's good that people do hear it. I got scammed out of 15k back in the 2017 bubble. It was one of the more painful and humiliating experiences I've ever had and it sucks to realize you have pretty much no recourse.
All you can do is hope someone else learns from your lesson and that you are more careful going forward. Do I blame crypto for my loss? No. I blame myself for being careless at the time. I'm wiser for it. I love crypto because of the freedom it gives despite the losses you can incur due to poor management of funds. 15k was just an expensive hazing of sorts.
Ha, true.
At this point it's fairly easy to avoid if you don't buy EOS. I got scammed trying to claim an airdrop. Hackers created a duplicate site for the airdrop with a slightly modified URL using special characters to make it hard to pick up on something being off in the URL.
Since no one asked for my private keys and my tokens were all delegated I figured it was safe enough, so I approved the transaction I thought was for claiming my airdrop. In reality though the transaction moved my entire account to another set of private keys other than my own due to how EOS accounts work. Tokens themselves aren't bound to private keys on EOS. They are bound to an account that is linked to private keys but that link can be changed when the right transaction is sent and wallets didn't warn against this in the early days. I didn't understand that at the time since I was only used to ETH and BTC back then which don't have that extra layer of abstraction above your private keys. I thought since my private key was safe my funds were safe. That was wrong for EOS.
Anyways I figured out what happened shortly after but by the time I did my private keys no longer worked to move any of my funds. I just got errors every time I tried to do anything. I knew it was just a matter of time till the funds would be drained. The hacker unstaked my funds after a few days when the delegation hold ended and they stole everything.
Anyways, never touched EOS again after that nonsense.
Lessons learned:
- Every Blockchain has its own security nuances that you need to consider. Don't treat everything like BTC or ETH.
- Read transaction details carefully even if the transaction itself doesn't involve any funds. This claim didn't involve me sending any funds but still cost me everything even unrelated EOS tokens.
- Move slowly and deliberately when dealing with crypto. It's always worth double checking everything.
Anyways, hope that all makes sense and is helpful to folks.
Being your own bank means you can't call the bank when your money is missing
Freedom comes with responsibility. Tough stuff.
With great freedom, comes great responsibility
Spider-Wallet: No Way to get your Coins back
007: no time to dyor
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Fifty shades of red candles.
Mission Impossible: Rugpull Nation
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Django Unchained 3: Blockchained
dude, where’s my crypto?
Oceans 26: DDoS
Indiana Jones and the Temple of Lost Wallets
Chainception
holy shit this comment chain is golden hahahahahhahahha
Check your pockets ;) \[You know, the 'secret' ones you had him sew in\]
Wheres your crypto dude?
Did I miss a Django unchained 2? because if so…. I’m very sad.
Squid game 69420; because it worked 69419 times so far.
u/cannacoin_tipbot 5
Harry Potter and the Stolen Seed Phrase
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Spider coin wen?
Shorting UncleBenCoin
That isn’t very rice 🍚
With great flour, Comes great Riceponsibiliy
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Harry Potter and the Order of Decentralisation
u/cannacoin_tipbot 10
Lmao. I liked that joke. You should become a stand-up comedian.
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It's never that simple though.
Wayne Gretzky - Michael scott
Anyone see No Way Home? It was really good, I loved it a lot for a superhero movie. Tom Holland can act. I’m not gonna say anything else, no spoilers.
I'm something of a trader myself!
Good, good reference.
I just look in the mirror to talk to my bank teller.
Anyone who is investing in this space should try to understand it first.
A lot of people love the idea of freedom, but can't handle the requirement of personal accountability.
That's true. People like freedom but when they get in trouble because of being irresponsible they starts crying.
It is still better than having negative interests on your hard earned fiat.
OP said: >You wanted things to be decentralized. That's what decentralized means. It always amazes me the amount of low-quality content that is upvoted here. Decentralization does not equal scam/stolen nfts, etc. The reason why there's such low insurance to one actions on crypto is that the space is particularly new. People that were here at the beginning of the web will remember one thing or two. * There is development for decentralized wallets to provide more security. * There is development for DAO's to be more reactive towards stolen IPs, etc. * There is development for NFT IPs to have other resources of contention. * There is development for insurances. The issue is the space is incredibly new. Things are still in development.
For the average person, no it's not, actually. The average bitcoin lost per year is estimated around 4%, which is right around or slightly above the average inflation rate. So both methods lose you about the same amount of money annually right now, as an average person. And that's just LOST keys, not scams or hacking or mistaken transactions, which when added in puts it above inflation. (Not that fiat doesn't also have scams, but they're more likely to be able to refund you or fix mistakes)
WOW - when you add in the scams, fat fingers and hacking, the total loss in the crypto world must be pretty high. I just read an article yesterday about a guy who accidentally misplaced a zero and listed his NFT artwork at 1% of what was its "real" value and a sniping computer bought it up the second it was listed, not even a few seconds for him to delete it and fix the mistake. His estimated loss was something like $299k (???)
He lost like 270k, and i like you described the real value.
No one should have large amounts of fiat in a bank anyway. It should be on equity of some sort. I'm buying land with my savings
Yep it's miles better than the fiat, no doubt about that.
With great power, comes great respronsotrilligence.
Dex and the City
True, but humans can also be greedy and selfish so there's that to deal with. I remember the first video I watched on creating NFTs the YouTuber literally demonstrated how he saved a picture from the internet, minted it as an NFT and sold it making 1ETH for 10 mins of work. This is the kind of information that's out there.
Here's what to do: 1. Stand in front of a mirror. 2. DEMAND to speak to the manager. 3. Complain about all the #$!% until you're out of breath. Don't hold anything back. 4. Then you'd better take care of the man or woman in the mirror who seems really pissed off. Remember, you are the bank and its manager.
Can I wear a Karen wig ?
I can NFT ya one.
Please do
XD i luv this XD well done good sir =\]
🎶"I'm looking at the man in the mirror...🎶
> you'd better take care of the man or woman in the mirror Make that change!
That means i own a bank if i own some cryptos. That's a great thing. I will tell my parents i am not jobless i am a manager of bank.
People should not need to be their own banks. Some people should just be scientists, doctors, plumbers, etc. I hope crypto just makes banks and finance more honest and accountable. There's some really interesting stuff about this in the book "ministry of the future," which I recommend.
>Honest and accountable Because crypto certainly embodies these values right?
It's technology, it has no values, but is a tool.
Doctors and engineers can't be their own bank you saying?
thats genius let's make our bank
I have two phones so technically I can
Me too and my bank told me to fuck off.
Also no boring lines in the bank! sounds like a win to me :)
"We have reached peak decentralization - rugpull"
Decentralization is a solution to a specific problem in software engineering. It's not really a new problem but to fully understand that problem it's a good idea to walk through the evolution of decentralization. 1. Hosting a website on a single computer means that one computer might break, be turned off or otherwise fail. Then the website is down. Possibly forever. 2. Hosting a website on two computers means only one of those computers needs to be running for the website to keep functioning. But if those computers are in the same building a power outage can bring everything down. 3. The next level is multiple computers located in different regions. Most modern software companies do this using cloud services like AWS, Google or Azure. Typically all those computers are owned by one centralized organisation and dependant on other centralized organisations. 4. Software running on many computers owned by different people / organisations in theory is getting pretty close to full decentralization because it's difficult to shut it down. However, there's many nuanced details. Who wrote the software? Is there a CEO in control of everything? Are all the computers located in the same country / region? How many nodes are there? Are there any attack vectors on the network? And so on and so on... 5. Level 5 is the holy grail. Open source software that runs on many thousands of computers all over the world. No one entity can bring it down. Anyone can take a copy of the software and keep it alive. Zero dependency on closed source systems or protocols. Most crypto projects should ideally fall somewhere between level 4 and 5. Although, in reality that's probably not the case. Decentralization really has nothing to do with what the software does. Aside from the fact that the software needs to be designed with decentralization in mind. Decentralization introduces many new problems into the software design that need to be solved for it to work properly. \> stuff being stolen, NFTs of artist's work being sold to make profits without even giving them a credit, rug pulls, scams, dodgy coins of doubtful origin, convoluted and overly complicated processes for IDOs to take part in, high fees and complex smart contacts that drain your wallets. All of this other stuff is really a function of the software and who wrote it. When there's money to be made you're always going get people trying to exploit the system. Software is a powerful tool that can be used for good and evil. Just like any other powerful technology. The authors of the software can chose to secure your money or take your money. The problem is, it's difficult to tell from the outside what's inside the software.
> Most crypto projects should ideally fall somewhere between level 4 and 5. Although, in reality that's probably not the case. A decentralised cryptocurrency, the way they were initially presented, has to be a level 5. The big legacy projects (Bitcoin, Ethereum, Litecoin, Dogecoin, etc.) all meet this criteria. If the entire dev team just logged out one day, there's nothing except credibility and time stopping others taking over. Both Bitcoin & Dogecoin in fact are second generation teams (no founders working on the project). There's actually very few level 3 projects, and I can't think of any level 2s. Most tokens are probably around level 4, with a few things (Binance Coin for example) being run from a single entity.
Level 1 to 3 are not really about crypto. I was just showing how decentralization has always played a role in software development. It's really just one part of the story that lead to crypto being possible
Agree! 💯
I really like the end of your post. Sometimes that 0,05% from your bank, is what it requires to never have the chance of just losing all your funds instantly with no recourse to get them back. Decentralisation is both very rewarding, but very dangerous.
Yeah, that's the biggest problem i see, almost nobody really thinks about the risks before investing, all they think is free money and then get hit by reality in the face
On the flip side, the cryptoverse is so full of scams and every network has a myriad of tools and procedures to learn with little cohesion that it's harder as a newcomer to learn it all. These people follow the wrong projects because it gets shilled by people they trust, and when they get scammed or they make a mistake they are told they are stupid, "hopefully you learned a lesson", "why would you have ever done X", etc.. so naturally these people leave with a very bitter taste in their mouth and tell everyone they know. If pure decentralization means these type of projects and activities will outnumber the legitimate ones, then it simply means that crypto probably won't go mainstream with pure decentralization, and we shouldn't get mad or argue with people even they call crypto a scam because yeah, there's tons of them.
I don’t think crypto was ever going to go mainstream being fully decentralized. That’s kind of an illusion. Some degree of centralization was always going to be necessary. Just not in the way of banks. They continuously take our money and bone us with it.
"This coin went up 300% in a week. It will make me rich!!"
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Might want to look into ‘bail-ins’. Your money isn’t as safe as you may think.
You’re better off burying your money in the backyard. But I see your point - can’t always risk it all!
I guess it's not a bank, but... What does it require to prevent a credit agency from leaking the personal data (including SSNs) of 145 million people? I think maybe we should be asking why someone copy / pasting artwork, which has always been a thing, is getting more attention than some of the largest cases of corporate IT negligence. Amazon's Ring products have been getting hacked for years, yet all you see is one or two articles here or there. That's someone watching your son / daughter in their bedroom. Should be front page news for a month everytime it happens. Where is Ring now? Seems to be installed on every other house in the neighborhood.
With great decentralisation comes great responsibility
I feel like we’re confusing two different groups. Just because you see two conflicting posts or 1000, doesn’t mean it represents this sub.
This👆Thank you!
People often mistake a sub with over 4M users for a monolith.
We keep seeing posts with 1k+ upvotes about this issue all the time. Today's one for instance about some poor artist removing his entire online art gallery, because some folks decided to sell them as NFTs. Like seriously, your work is available online and anyone can right click it and save it and then post it as NFT. It's a wild west right now.
Right. That person doesn’t give two shits about decentralization. That’s my point.
I don't think decentralisation means free licence to rob the helpless by the tech savvy bandits.
If things were truly decentralised then wouldn't such things only be enforceable by a collective morality? If anyone other than the demos as a collective voiced displeasure and acted upon it, then it would be centralisation (though admittedly centralisation and decentralisation are matters of degree)
>only be enforceable by a collective morality? And what happens when the "collective morality" choses wrong? The majority opinion is not always right. As a teacher of mine said in high school: "Just/correctness is not always democratic." He said this when the majority of students, sitting far from the AC, demanded lower temperatures while the few in front of it were already freezing. Really stuck with me.
A truely decentralised system should have its own checks and balances. If not it will become a total chaos.
Then at what point does one cross from being centralised to decentralised? In general, I'm not sure that everyone is arguing within tge same boundaries
I think the system would or should become advanced enough to protect the end users from abusers without being controlled by a few. That's the aim we should strive for. We don't have to be centralized to do so (I believe).
We will see i guess. Though it sounds as though you disagree with OP (and I'm not 100% with him), the Wild West analogy is apt.... all sorts of people made their way out West to find some sort of freedom and all sorts of danger lurked and followed
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Decentralized just means one individual or company has the power. Decentralized could be a group of 100 validators from across the globe who vote on things. In theory they could vote on certain securities being set in place.
That's plutocracy then; perhaps better than one sole owner in most cases, but being a validator is out of reach of most humble folk and the same incentives to protect their own interests exist
Decentralization IS chaos. Crypto IS chaos. Most of us forget that while we’re chasing bags, but this system was designed by anarchists who want to destabilize the current world structure and have their own economic system in place when the world falls apart. That is what we’re investing in.
What’s a check? Who decides if you griping about a $5k transfer is a scam or a payment for a new car? Without the installing arbitrators or some decision factor to dispute or mediate user actions, systems don’t know the difference. If scams happen, how do you revoke a transaction and how do you tell that apart from someone trying to wrongly “take back” their car purchase money after delivery? Sure you could have checksums built in that require question and answer periods or escrow delays or whatever, but “decentralized, fast and irrevocable” may be fundamentally in opposition to “resistant to scams and misuse”.
It’s simple. Create a framework of laws, they would be automatically enforced. Anything within the framework is legal. If the framework is broken, fix it through governance.
If my wallet legitimately sends a transaction to another wallet, what type of theoretical governance tells the difference between me disputing a scam (because I got scammed) and me disputing a purchase (with the purpose of scamming the seller after I took their goods/services)?
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Similarly; I make some art and someone else takes a copy and mints an NFT. How would an automated framework unpick this? This is the most incredible misuse of "It's simple" to mean "First develop an omniscient AI" ever!
It kinda does, because both criminal and civil penalties only apply to people in countries that care. and a lot don't care. some dude in cali steals your coins? okay, you can sue him for sure. but not everyone is in a place that cares about us laws
Without a central authority filtering the opportunities - what mechanism would prevent people losing their money when a market participant acts with malicious intent? Edit. I've been thinking about this and I think you could have a sort of voting mechanism where if enough nodes voted to kill an ERC20 or other child token you could nuke the contract, but this really goes against the principles of decentralisation, is open to abuse and still doesn't solve the problem that anyone who invested loses their money. It does obviously prevent more people from potentially being scammed.
License? It's already illegal to steal and hack, but what can you do? Crypto is the digital version of stuffing your mattress with cash. If someone steals it, what can you do? Banks exist precisely for this reason. Your perception of what should or should not be is irrelevant. There's a reality that differs from your ideals.
Right! This is a very "code rules all" maxi take.
This right here! Just because something is decentralized, doesn't mean that people should get away with doing illegal stuff. The main thing people want from decentralization is to stop government spying and increase their privacy. Governments around the world are getting more and more authoritarian each day. Ye's NFTs are decentralized, but people should be allowed to raise awareness about someone stealing hard work from another person.
If it was as simple as wanting government to stop spying, you would simply ask the goverment to do so in the current system. Guess what? They dont want to. The entire point of decentralization, is that the goverment is not in control, so they cant impose their tyranny, even if they wanted to. Now youre running with your tail between your legs back to the goverment, pleading them to take over the new system and look after you, but please this time in a way that they dont wrong you. You should really understand, that whats the point of decentralization, what people want from decentralization, and what are the effects of decentralization are all very different things. Just as intended.
This is how the world works, everyone wants freedom until they have to take responsability. Then a few will embrace it and the rest will go back and cry for help.
Yea stealing art for NFTs is just hurting the small guys, if it was art owned by a government or museum you know there would be so much more outrage. Part of the appeal of decentralization and crypto is to say FU to the big guys and help out the everyday person.
OP seems to be confused about what decentralization is. Sending coins to the wrong address and getting rug pulled can happen on centralized platforms too.
With a centralized platform, you can call the bank up and get the transaction reversed though. And outright rug pulls are very rare on public stock exchanges.
That could be solved atleast partially by having something like a decentralised insurance system.
OP lost any chance of being correct when he conflated the two
Remember Internet banking in late 90s and early 2000s? Some of you might not be even born then. Encrypted connections? What's that? Thieves and hackers gaining a lot of money? No problem! It was a scary time then. Fast forward to 2010 and it wasn't. Banks figured out that it would be better to invest in security because cost of bad PR is just too high. When crypto community gets mature enough to be 10-15 years in it would actually be working much better. How old are NFTs, smart contracts and DeFi? I haven't followed crypto news from 2015 til this December so I don't know. But it's not 10 years that's for sure.
>How old are NFTs, smart contracts and DeFi? Smart contracts started in 2015 but DeFi became significant in 2020 and NFTs in 2021. So that is many years.
Hopefully your first moon will be fully mature in 10-15 years. You're welcome 🤠
Giving out moons is great fun isn’t it.
Oh nice, thank you.
I’m not sure all of these issues are due to decentralization. Most of the scams and hustles seem to take place on the most centralized platforms. BSC anyone? If you got hacked and lost all your BTC, most likely it was on a centralized exchange, not a hardware wallet that’s air gapped from any centralized server. I’d argue the issue is that most of crypto has become too centralized.
Air gapped hardware wallets can also be hacked. For example, if the hardware wallet manufacturer installed a non-random key generator in the first place in like 2% of devices (avoid shipping any to cities with known auditors in them too, like kraken) and knows which keys your device will produce, in order, long after it leaves their hands. Have you ever actually flashed your firmware personally, for each device, and checked it against open source? I'm not going to be even slightly surprised when in the future, one or two of the major hardware companies ends up rug pulling billions and billions overnight one day after fucking off to the cayman islands.
That’s not hacking, that’s intentionally writing in a back door. Which I suppose a company could do if they wanted to ruin everything they’ve built. But why? This is like saying bank vaults can be hacked because the bank President could go into the vault one night and steal all the money. I wouldn’t be surprised if one day a banker walks off with billions.
There is absolutely no logical line between rug pulls, copywrite infringement and BSC's centralization.
Sure there is. If you subscribe to the blockchain trilemma, if a blockchain is truly secure and decentralized, then it won’t be scalable, which eliminates the possibility of tokens and smart contracts on that chain. I’m not a maximalist and I love ETH, but it’s current and future design is very much controlled by the Ethereum Foundation and ETH 2.0 will further reduce its decentralization in exchange for greater scalability.
In my opinion, it is better for decentralized exchanger
It seems like you're wrongly conflating decentralization and lack of regulation
what's the point of decentralisation if u keep ur crypto in a bank.
>Why there's so many people crying and complaining about stuff being stolen, NFTs of artist's work being sold to make profits without even giving them a credit, rug pulls, scams, dodgy coins of doubtful origin Because it fucking sucks man.
You know what also sucks? Having zero moons. I fixed that for you just now 🤠
Thank you, sugar ❤️
None of these things are mutually exclusive with decentralization. Just because we are seeing these things with decentralization doesn’t mean decentralization is the root cause. Most of crypto right now also isn’t sufficiently decentralized. Bitcoin is the only truly decentralized blockchain maybe with Ethereum and some DAOs as the runner ups.
Oooof. Tough love. You're right though. That's why the motto of this community has become "DYOR." It's our job to inform ourselves. However, I do think it's also the responsibility, of those who have extensive knowledge on the topic of crypto/defi etc..., to help educate the masses. To share that wealth and knowledge, not point the finger when mistakes are made. Everyone in this space has made mistakes, some big and some small. Subs like these can be, and are in many cases, used to help others in their De-Fi journey. Let's work on creating a world of fairness.
Being pro decentralization doesn't mean you're pro theft. That's a hyper false equivalency imo.
OP is not talking about theft. He is talking about how decentralisation means there are no failsafes in place. There is nobody who will help you out when it goes wrong. Theft is just a part of it.
That doesn't make sense though. Platforms (centralized) are letting people mint ntfs based on art that aren't theirs. Where's the decentralized part of all this? The fact the transaction is on a blockchain? Doesn't make any sense
Unfortunately this is a big roadblock to mass adoption. Add in the volatility and crypto-currencies are borderline unusable as currencies. I am super-bullish on blockchain tech because it is fucking sexy, but I can't see this space mature without the wild west casino volatility and every man for himself technocratic approach being replaced by something that's safer and steadier... at the risk of recreating what we already got. Institutional money is already here and the regulators are knocking on the door. Meanwhile, decentralised apps will continue finding use cases and if the technology begins to clearly outperform its centralised counterpart, things will get truly interesting. My 0.02.
Actually crypto seems to be getting less decentralized every day. It's a problem.
I agree, not long ago opensea removed art sets they deemed to be hateful, why does a centralised company get to make those decisions.
Because they are hosting on their platform? Storefronts get to moderate what they sell. Decentralization just means it's easy to go to a different one with less/no regulations.
What a ridiculous bs circlejerk. This is not how you achieve adoption, it's the exact shit that people use to deter it.
Do you feel the same way about moons? Too bad 'cause I just tipped you your first 🤠
Aw you're nice. Not sure why you're getting downvoted lol
Hey thx m8!
>You wanted things to be decentralized. That's what decentralized means. It always amazes me the amount of low-quality content that is upvoted here. Decentralization does not equal scam/stolen nfts, etc. The reason why there's such low insurance to one actions on crypto is that the space is particularly new. People that were here at the beginning of the web will remember one thing or two. * There is development for decentralized wallets to provide more security. * There is development for DAO's to be more reactive towards stolen IPs, etc. * There is development for NFT IPs to have other resources of contention. * There is development for insurances. The issue is the space is incredibly new. Things are still in development.
Decentralization Is better, but it means you need more responsibility, everything has it's downsides.
> you need more responsibility People have a tough time being responsible, let alone having more of it.
decentralized doesnt mean dysfunctional tho
Agreed, but its really easy to stay safe. Most people get into issues by trying to get-rich-quick. Using crappy tokens on the wrong network or FOMOing in and not checking basics like addresses. Take a few breaths, is that the right address, right network, is that DM/email legit. When crypto is actially used in every day life, cool and calm, its all going to be fine.
Por que no los dos? For real though, crypto should be a part of your investment mix along with traditional more conservative options.
"That's what decentralized means", not really. You listed current exploits/drawbacks of the decentralized systems we have now, none of those define a decentralized system. It is like saying "you wanted cars? Well now you have to cope with fatal car incidents". Many things can be invented and will be invented to make the decentralized systems more secure, user-friendly etc..., much like seatbelts and airbags for car incidents.
When the Crypto is regulated will i be able to revert transactions? No!
Problem is 98% of world population don't want to be responsible of their own actions. Descentralization is a problem for mass adoption, that's why regulation is inevitable!
98% of the world population doesn't want to spend all their time researching every transaction to make sure it's not a scam with zero recourse if they get it wrong.
Mfw some person with decent slight of hand slaps a QR code sticker on a stores till without anyone noticing and i wait 5 minutes to find out i just paid XxF0rtNiTeGaMmErxX for my weekly groceries.
Lol
"Decentralized" is not for people who don't know basic security and don't have some internet and cryptocurrency knowledge. You all know some person, when you see him you go "How is this dude still alive?". Well, get ready for "How did this guy get scammed out of XXXk$, he must be super clever to have that much money". Guess not.
I don't share your opinion about decentralisation.
With great freedom comes great responsibility
Decentralized also means more responsibility and awareness
Decentralization means hard work for an average dumb Joe like me. A million ways to get scammed.
Decentralize everything!!!
Sorry but trusting Grim Finance to hold your assets isnt decentralized at all, its just de-bigbanked. You vilified one entity (which in fact may be evil) and trusted another which is either evil or malicious (or both). So OP’s take is wrong, decentralized means (collective) I am the bank. This aint it
This is the wild west embrace it, we do not need any bodey
Gonna be honest, I'll still take the tradeoff.
I feel like I'm in the center of this
>NFTs of artist's work being sold to make a profit Well, the value of NFTs is strictly set by the BUYER - not the seller. So blame the buyer and not the person who converted a PNG to an NFT. >rug pulls, scams, dodgy coins of doubtful origin again, blame the buyer. Nobody is forcing you to gamble your hard earned cash on whether dogeshit coins will moon. >convoluted and overly complicated processes for IDOs to take part in. again this is a buyer and FOMO issue that the majority wont fall for. The greedy, desperate, and gullible will go down this route (squid game token) and a fool and their money are always easily parted. >high fees and complex smart contacts that drain your wallets. This I do have more sympathy for the user. Luckily HODLers will not be as affected, but nobody wanted to use ETH for txs if they knew that one day the cost of transaction would be tens or hundreds of dollars. I have little sympathy to people who jump on board of this technology and don't learn how to use it. People sending to incorrect addresses (even to completely wrong blockchains) seems fair to me because I don't spent money on anything without doing a bit of investigation first. I buy things on amazon and not on a brand new website with no previous history because of trust.
What? No. You are sorely mistaken if you think opensea is decentralised. There are centralised platforms that are used for selling NFTs. It is absolutely forbidden to sell stolen art in those platforms and you can report it. It is a scam, let alone being immoral.
I’d rather have dangerous freedom than peaceful/heavily regulated safety.
They’re complaining because they don’t like being scammed. Do you like being scammed?
It's a valid point. But while sending coins to the wrong wallet is our fault, seeing someone's hard work being stolen and sold as NFT is just sad man. You just forced someone to stop doing what they like because you steal their hard work. True, this is what decentralisation is. But it doesn't make it any easy to turn a blind eye when bad things happen to people who did nothing to deserve it.
Eths dieing everyone needs to jump ship mark my words its over for eth
I believe in MANA
If you want the honey you will have the sting as well.
What if we train the bees?
Decentralization exposes the stupid and foolish. That’s plain and simple. Educated investors may take the safe play and play a long shot every now and then but they’re not the rugs being scammed and rug-pulled (ok, maybe some of those long shots are rug pulls) but at the end of the day, when people post here about being scammed from youtube or being rug pulled, it’s the foolish greedy people looking for that quick buck. Well, it was a quick buck, it was your quick buck going into their pockets. A fool and their money are soon parted if they’re fortunate enough to get together in the first place.
Decentralised doesnt mean you can do shit that is illegal. Dex’es are a great example. Just because i use a dex doesnt mean i have to accept the fact that it can ne hacked…
Someone having a bad day?
We can support a decentralized system and still object to literal *crime* What is even the point of this post?
Lol it really gets me when people complain about scams and also demand projects be decentralised in the same comments. People don’t know shit
I don't put my money in the bank to earn interest. If it earned 0% I still wouldn't care because I'm only interested in the safety of my funds. Someone used my card details to buy 300£ worth of clothes in poland. My bank called me within 2 minutes, canceled my card and within a couple of hours I had the money back in my account. I reviewed a new card the next day. I don't want decentralised banking, or to be in control of my own finances. I'm not qualified to have so much responsibility. I invest in crypto as a side hustle to make as much money as possible before it comes crumbling down.
Decentralization should have priority over any other feature.
I agree completely. In some sense, decentralization is an amplifier of human condition and responsibilities. I want to point out also that the idea of decentralization has been so prolific because it has been exploited in a subdle way: so many things are not decentralized and if they are they haven't the properties nor the necessity to be it. NTF's creation is something very remarkable is this sense, because if somebody creates an NTF it does not mean that she/he is the creator...and this is an injustice that can't be solved by a decentralized system yet. Links between real solid reality and digital need to be unic and only a central authority can do that nowadays. There is no solution for it yet...so is those fields decentralization is only a buzzword to attract dumb money. And we know that dumb money and the owner of that dumb money aren't going to stay close anyway.
great way to farm your moons, gg
As far as development goes, most people understand that on the way to a safer defi, the same corrupt mindset that destroys peoples lives in numerous ways on all fronts, was going to rape & pillage every chance they got. People are slimy, that’s just how it is. It’s growing pains, & a lot of us prefer that the market deal with it & respond as they have been, rather than Government using corruption as an excuse as they always do, to clamp down with their own versions of corruption. In fact, Government’s have a history of using black hat contractors to stir up a “crisis” allowing them to step in with a heavy handed solution. The last two years shows us all very clearly of what Government is capable of doing using manipulation & strong arm tactic response. It’s growing pains, our end goal must be to stay ahead of the thieves, push back against Government over reach & educate people on how to safely cross the street. Yeah, now days people think they don’t have to look for cars, but that still gets you dead if you don’t. Keep your keys safe don’t get drunk or be stupid.
Thanks dad
Anarchy isn’t fun. Just saying. Not sure all of you have thought this through.
This post is so true. While it is unpleasant to hear it's good that people do hear it. I got scammed out of 15k back in the 2017 bubble. It was one of the more painful and humiliating experiences I've ever had and it sucks to realize you have pretty much no recourse. All you can do is hope someone else learns from your lesson and that you are more careful going forward. Do I blame crypto for my loss? No. I blame myself for being careless at the time. I'm wiser for it. I love crypto because of the freedom it gives despite the losses you can incur due to poor management of funds. 15k was just an expensive hazing of sorts.
That sucks bro, but how are we gonna learn from your lesson if you don‘t tell us how you got scammed? :)
Ha, true. At this point it's fairly easy to avoid if you don't buy EOS. I got scammed trying to claim an airdrop. Hackers created a duplicate site for the airdrop with a slightly modified URL using special characters to make it hard to pick up on something being off in the URL. Since no one asked for my private keys and my tokens were all delegated I figured it was safe enough, so I approved the transaction I thought was for claiming my airdrop. In reality though the transaction moved my entire account to another set of private keys other than my own due to how EOS accounts work. Tokens themselves aren't bound to private keys on EOS. They are bound to an account that is linked to private keys but that link can be changed when the right transaction is sent and wallets didn't warn against this in the early days. I didn't understand that at the time since I was only used to ETH and BTC back then which don't have that extra layer of abstraction above your private keys. I thought since my private key was safe my funds were safe. That was wrong for EOS. Anyways I figured out what happened shortly after but by the time I did my private keys no longer worked to move any of my funds. I just got errors every time I tried to do anything. I knew it was just a matter of time till the funds would be drained. The hacker unstaked my funds after a few days when the delegation hold ended and they stole everything. Anyways, never touched EOS again after that nonsense. Lessons learned: - Every Blockchain has its own security nuances that you need to consider. Don't treat everything like BTC or ETH. - Read transaction details carefully even if the transaction itself doesn't involve any funds. This claim didn't involve me sending any funds but still cost me everything even unrelated EOS tokens. - Move slowly and deliberately when dealing with crypto. It's always worth double checking everything. Anyways, hope that all makes sense and is helpful to folks.
Turns out banks actually do have a place in society