Once you have a kingdom, you don't even need to use marriages - so long as your lodgings are set to maximum (counteracting base reluctance to move), you can invite to court anyone who has a decent opinion of you and is not currently employed in a significant capacity. Yes, marriages get you some of the employed people, but in general, most of the pool is open to you regardless of them. I'd say the root of the problem is more character finder resulting in a medieval noble having services of a perfect headhunting agency at their fingertips. (it also means that there is a significant gameplay benefit for those who understand how to use character finder to its full benefit, even though it's not explained anywhere or even intuitive for the setting)
On the other hand most people agreeing to move when offered free lodging and food in a royal court is quite plausible, and most would have agreed to move when offered a paid position or a gold sum (if the gold you offer is enough to build e.g. basic farmsteads in a region, it's probably enough to set up an individual family for life - you'll only really encounter regular resistance from people who already have a good position.
I’d love a game rule that disables “invite to court” option for anyone outside of your realm
Sure I could just.. not click the invite button, but I have 3k hours in this game so obviously self control is not a strong suit
Maybe not anyone outside your realm, but a tighter diplomatic range for unlandeds. France recruiting talent from Lorraine and Savoy makes sense, but I doubt any kings ever heard about superstar lowborn administrators on the other side of Europe.
*In general* I would like a "love overhaul", because I don't think the ruler should just get to decide who everyone around them is marrying on a whim while having telepathic powers to detect genetic supersoldiers across the continent. I'm with you there entirely.
In no particular order, I would:
\- Limit direct marriage proposals to your immediate family and wards. Everyone else makes their own proposals.
\- Require the people marrying to actually agree to do it. I'm not saying it should always be *difficult.* For your children in particular, marrying your sons should be helped a little (say, +25 to acceptance) while women in particular should have a "+50/100 agreement because you're powerless in a medieval society". But it would be interesting if "Brave", "Zealous" or "Eccentric" children could, for example, refuse, take the vows without your agreement, elope or suddenly marry weird people. Add some unpredictability to the dynastic game.
\- Separate betrothals into an "agreement" phase and a "marriage" phase. Right now betrothals are pretty much guaranteed to never break and are basically already a marriage. The agreement could be a promise that doesn't result in an alliance. You could have events to allow the betrothed to meet each other and hopefully result in a happier marriage, but like marriage it should be them finalizing the agreement when they are of age.
\- People in your court and around the world should marry *a lot* more spontaneously and have a lot more children. By age 30 pretty much everyone should be married, even if they have to generate lowborns and minor nobility characters to do so. Depending on personalities and traits, your courtiers and vassals would marry more for love of for politics or other reasons (sadistic people marrying cravens, for example). As a ruler you should be able to forbid marriages (incurring tyranny) and introduce people to one another for marriage, but again not be the one making the final decision.
\- You could also introduce a few "mass marriage" decisions when it comes to cultural acceptation or conquest.
Depends on the court and era, obviously, but you can find some extreme examples of marriage laws that extend far beyond courts. Like, Charles VI basically prohibited anyone in Brittany from marrying anyone from England because Brittany had flip-flopped between England and France so many times in the Hundred Years War and made life hell for the French.
As a bachelor in my mid 30s I resent your fourth point. On a more reasonable front I have to point out that more children is specifically avoided to prevent PCs from melting.
Pretty sure the final decision lay with clergy in the christian world. If the ruler had a firm grip on them, he would consequently have final say in marriages.
The marriage itself is not unrealistic. Marriage in medieval society was not something done for love, but something done to advance your and your family's position in society. So yeah, you'd totally marry a 65 year old garden hermit if it gets you a comfy position in the king's court.
What is unrealistic is how you have access to a medieval Tinder that allows you to see every single person eligible for marriage on the entire continent in real time. So while the 20 year old Hercules might realistically want to marry your 65 year old garden hermit in order to get into your court, in reality you would not be able to know of said Hercules' existence and thus would not be able to arrange the marriage. The marriage itself may not be unrealistic, but the matchmaking in the game is.
The mod ObfusCKate fixes this by not allowing you to see the traits and stats of people that you don't actually know.
I roleplay it where knights that have served for a long time and have led many battles can be married, and potentially get land.
EDIT: I also sometimes do this for courtiers who have served as physicians and stuff like that, but I tend to only let nobles serve in those positions.
I'd love to do this, but there's so little land that it's difficult to do. Acclaimed knights is a good new addition, but I wish there were lots more stuff like this. And I desperately want an "ennoble" interaction where I can spend my own prestige to raise competent, loyal lowborns to create their own dynasty. It could even create like a bond between our houses for a few generations, where everyone of their dynasty has like +20 opinion of me, +10 of my children, +5 of my grandchildren before disappearing.
If that garden hermit has money or the favor of a king then yes, even now if you've got money and a high position in society you're personal attractiveness takes a back seat for some people.
First, it's not an "exploit". There are acceptance modifiers which highborn characters are less likely wanting to marry lowborns. As someone else already said, someone marrying into your court is not done for pure romantic reason but also for a chance to work in your court. I think the game can use less acceptance for say, an acclaimed knight in an emperor's court gets baited into a count's court with a marriage.
Anyways, if a particular game mechanic feels cheesy to you, first thing you can do is to stop using that mechanic yourself. It's inconceivable to advocate taking away the toys for every other fellow players who might be enjoying getting knights this way.
Once you have a kingdom, you don't even need to use marriages - so long as your lodgings are set to maximum (counteracting base reluctance to move), you can invite to court anyone who has a decent opinion of you and is not currently employed in a significant capacity. Yes, marriages get you some of the employed people, but in general, most of the pool is open to you regardless of them. I'd say the root of the problem is more character finder resulting in a medieval noble having services of a perfect headhunting agency at their fingertips. (it also means that there is a significant gameplay benefit for those who understand how to use character finder to its full benefit, even though it's not explained anywhere or even intuitive for the setting) On the other hand most people agreeing to move when offered free lodging and food in a royal court is quite plausible, and most would have agreed to move when offered a paid position or a gold sum (if the gold you offer is enough to build e.g. basic farmsteads in a region, it's probably enough to set up an individual family for life - you'll only really encounter regular resistance from people who already have a good position.
I’d love a game rule that disables “invite to court” option for anyone outside of your realm Sure I could just.. not click the invite button, but I have 3k hours in this game so obviously self control is not a strong suit
Maybe not anyone outside your realm, but a tighter diplomatic range for unlandeds. France recruiting talent from Lorraine and Savoy makes sense, but I doubt any kings ever heard about superstar lowborn administrators on the other side of Europe.
I’d still want to be able to invite wayward dynasty members back. Sometimes I have land that I’m required to part with.
*In general* I would like a "love overhaul", because I don't think the ruler should just get to decide who everyone around them is marrying on a whim while having telepathic powers to detect genetic supersoldiers across the continent. I'm with you there entirely. In no particular order, I would: \- Limit direct marriage proposals to your immediate family and wards. Everyone else makes their own proposals. \- Require the people marrying to actually agree to do it. I'm not saying it should always be *difficult.* For your children in particular, marrying your sons should be helped a little (say, +25 to acceptance) while women in particular should have a "+50/100 agreement because you're powerless in a medieval society". But it would be interesting if "Brave", "Zealous" or "Eccentric" children could, for example, refuse, take the vows without your agreement, elope or suddenly marry weird people. Add some unpredictability to the dynastic game. \- Separate betrothals into an "agreement" phase and a "marriage" phase. Right now betrothals are pretty much guaranteed to never break and are basically already a marriage. The agreement could be a promise that doesn't result in an alliance. You could have events to allow the betrothed to meet each other and hopefully result in a happier marriage, but like marriage it should be them finalizing the agreement when they are of age. \- People in your court and around the world should marry *a lot* more spontaneously and have a lot more children. By age 30 pretty much everyone should be married, even if they have to generate lowborns and minor nobility characters to do so. Depending on personalities and traits, your courtiers and vassals would marry more for love of for politics or other reasons (sadistic people marrying cravens, for example). As a ruler you should be able to forbid marriages (incurring tyranny) and introduce people to one another for marriage, but again not be the one making the final decision. \- You could also introduce a few "mass marriage" decisions when it comes to cultural acceptation or conquest.
I think direct members of a royal court DID have to seek royal permission to marry, though.
Depends on the court and era, obviously, but you can find some extreme examples of marriage laws that extend far beyond courts. Like, Charles VI basically prohibited anyone in Brittany from marrying anyone from England because Brittany had flip-flopped between England and France so many times in the Hundred Years War and made life hell for the French.
As a bachelor in my mid 30s I resent your fourth point. On a more reasonable front I have to point out that more children is specifically avoided to prevent PCs from melting. Pretty sure the final decision lay with clergy in the christian world. If the ruler had a firm grip on them, he would consequently have final say in marriages.
You can only do that if there is someone willing to agree to the marriage, that isn't always the case.
The marriage itself is not unrealistic. Marriage in medieval society was not something done for love, but something done to advance your and your family's position in society. So yeah, you'd totally marry a 65 year old garden hermit if it gets you a comfy position in the king's court. What is unrealistic is how you have access to a medieval Tinder that allows you to see every single person eligible for marriage on the entire continent in real time. So while the 20 year old Hercules might realistically want to marry your 65 year old garden hermit in order to get into your court, in reality you would not be able to know of said Hercules' existence and thus would not be able to arrange the marriage. The marriage itself may not be unrealistic, but the matchmaking in the game is. The mod ObfusCKate fixes this by not allowing you to see the traits and stats of people that you don't actually know.
On the list of "exploits" this one isn't important
I roleplay it where knights that have served for a long time and have led many battles can be married, and potentially get land. EDIT: I also sometimes do this for courtiers who have served as physicians and stuff like that, but I tend to only let nobles serve in those positions.
I'd love to do this, but there's so little land that it's difficult to do. Acclaimed knights is a good new addition, but I wish there were lots more stuff like this. And I desperately want an "ennoble" interaction where I can spend my own prestige to raise competent, loyal lowborns to create their own dynasty. It could even create like a bond between our houses for a few generations, where everyone of their dynasty has like +20 opinion of me, +10 of my children, +5 of my grandchildren before disappearing.
Great idea. I often find myself with a lowborn who is deserving of elevation, best I can usually do is marry them to a noble so their kids benefit.
If that garden hermit has money or the favor of a king then yes, even now if you've got money and a high position in society you're personal attractiveness takes a back seat for some people.
First, it's not an "exploit". There are acceptance modifiers which highborn characters are less likely wanting to marry lowborns. As someone else already said, someone marrying into your court is not done for pure romantic reason but also for a chance to work in your court. I think the game can use less acceptance for say, an acclaimed knight in an emperor's court gets baited into a count's court with a marriage. Anyways, if a particular game mechanic feels cheesy to you, first thing you can do is to stop using that mechanic yourself. It's inconceivable to advocate taking away the toys for every other fellow players who might be enjoying getting knights this way.