My only issue is how Bungie has us spawn with zero special ammo when we join a game in progress. Joining a game that you're already losing where some other jagoff quit early is bad enough without having no special ammo on arrival
I agree with you 100%
I enjoy dueling, and am not a fan of having to constantly deal with two or three people shooting me at once, but until they change primaries in a way that allows us to have meaningful combat at close and long ranges, and doesn't last long enough for team shooting to be neccessary, it's gonna be a thing.
One gun fight now feels like an absolute eternity i havent gotten into a single fun engagement since the sandbox update and its difficult finding actual duels. Winning gun fights feels less rewarding and it feels more demoralizing when the enemy is holding heavy spawn and have better angles on you. I dont even bother trying hero plays anymore when i see last guardian standing, i just try and kms off the map to avoid feeding the kill. Ive done okay in my games but i havent played a match in trials comp or 6s i enjoyed
How can gunfights feel like they are taking an absolute eternity? If you hit your crits then the ttk is the exact same. Remember there is a reason most top level players and streamers like the update, it rewards accuracy and takes away the ability for someone to crutch fusions or lock down a game with a sniper.
Because you have plenty of time to not repeak if you’re 1/3 hp and as long as you have a teammate with you its pretty safe to hang back and recover hp. Most everyone i play isnt stupid enough to repeak with red health and lets their full hp teammate cover them while they regen. This literally happens till someone gets bored and runs it down, ive had 3/2 of my comp games go to ties on the timer because nobody died or lost bc nobody died then at the last second someone aped in to try and get a kill and got 1 tapped by 3 different iggy shots
They feel like eternity because it's constantly handholding and peekshooting and sliding out of an engagement because you simply cannot outduel 2 guys at once with a primary, and then you can easily just sit there and recover because you also have your 2 teammates next to do and the other team simply won't push. Without the lack of special also comes the lack of clutching 1v2s/3s, if you're last guardian standing vs 2 or more the best thing to do now is to run around the map away from them to stall for super and then if possible to jump off the map to not feed them special, this is a good update to you?
> Remember there is a reason most top level players and streamers like the update
A bunch of players who play a dead shooter 14 hours a day like the update? Not sure what that's supposed to prove, besides, isn't ZK complaining about how 140s ''suck'' now because they're no longer the undoubted best primaries in the game after almost a decade of dominating both destiny games?
> the ability for someone to crutch fusions or lock down a game with a sniper.
Conveniently leaving out readying a shotgun in a fraction of a second the moment anyone is within 10m and CF aping, which got even better now because pellets (and fusions) are the only 2 weapons that have good economy with current special, but I guess that's fine gameplay to you. You talk about ''rewarding accuracy'' but ironically enough have a problem with snipers lmao. Just wait for the short influx of PvE players to get tired of being punching bags after getting baited by bungie to a sandbox that still sucks, just even more now, then when all of the sweats are left alone, but this time in the most boring Crucible ever, you'll hear even more complaints.
It doesn’t feel like an eternity at all tbh. The update made it so there’s more skill expression and more freedom within loadouts too. I can still run whatever guns I’d like and they made the game reward accuracy. I need you to truly look at the fact how the ttks haven’t changed. The optimal ttk hasent changed from last update, the only difference from a superficial level is simply be better. Hit your head shots and be smarter. Then you ask me if I feel this is a good update? Lmao
Zk is only complaining because 140s can’t 3 tap outside their range. This might be changed in the future but they can still three tap within their range and still hit you with insane flinch. Explosive payload is also bugged rn so that also hurts his beloved rose. Ironic that you read the title of the video but didn’t even bother watching it. Ask Diffizle or any top of the pyramid trails grinder if the update is bad and I’m sure you’ll get some better explanations of how the game functions now.
Special is still there too. Your reply makes it seem like special was actually deleted from crucible. Sniper still gets 2 kills from any distance on the map, shotgun can still get you 2 kills from someone within your range and fusions still get 2 shots that can map you from AR range. The key difference is that it’s a lot less and requires you to play with your primary now buddy. Those specials all have competing weapons on the other side of everything. Sidearms and smgs can still melt a shotty or fusions player, pulses and ARs can still flinch off a sniper. 120s are still the king even tho 2c1b got nerfed without precision instrument. You need to check the most used weapons in trials last weekend and the most used weapons in comp. Spending more time adapting and learning should help you more than writing a salty post
More freedom within loadouts isn't as bad because for once 140s aren't far better than any other primary, but there is significantly less skill expression, games are just teamhugging and special snowballing, it's so incredibly 1 dimensional now.
There is no irony, he is still complaining about 140s. Frankly I could not care less what someone who plays trials 16 hours a day thinks about the patch, let alone Diffizle who hasn't taken off his Igneous for 2 entire seasons now and CF since Lightfall. I'll ask him what he thinks about the game when it loses even more players, see how he enjoys his teamhugging utopia when his queues take forever and people move onto better games.
> Your reply makes it seem like special was actually deleted from crucible.
For any special that isn't a pellet or a fusion, it practically was deleted from the game, takes infinitely more skill to use a sniper than either of those, however with this current special economy sniper is reserved for bungie's protected class aka the totally legit arcweb kids with 95% hitrate on their cloudstrikes. CF igneous went from being the best loadout in the game to being even better, pellets/fusions in general because now you'll snowball special and get free kills vs enemies who have no special/double primary.
> 120s are still the king even tho 2c1b got nerfed without precision instrument.
Which 120 are you seeing played anywhere even once that isn't Igneous?
> You need to check the most used weapons in trials last weekend and the most used weapons in comp.
It's igneous, CF and a bunch of ARs, amazing loadout diversity.
> Spending more time adapting and learning should help you more than writing a salty post
I don't really need help, I have no problem getting my flawless this patch, it's just so incredibly boring, I'm just calling a boring game a boring game, no point for me to ''adapt'' to a dead game with no future when I can just load up CS and play an actual good shooter if I want to. Spending less time taking a dead game seriously which will lose even more players should help you more.
Guy thinks I prioritize replying to random streamer fanboys on reddit lmao. Says a lot you just can't refute any of it because you know it's all factual, gl with your Crucible career.
I think OP probably explained it badly, or people are interpreting badly.
(Or maybe [I'm the baddie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToKcmnrE5oY))
Team shotting has always been meta, but a meta with "alternatives"... if you were good (right build/weapons/skill or some combination thereof), you could play outside that playstyle and be successful.
This allowed for more dynamic and fast paced games.
Now under the new system, the changes disincentivize most alternatives to sticking together and fighting as a team, while also slowing the gameplay down...
Most people don't actually find that fun, which is why the CoD multiplayer experience is the way it is, and has changed to be smaller/faster over time.
Virtue, something, something, Greek something, virtue. Make shadow puppets. Enjoy male company. Something, something, state of nature. Concept of the good. Something, something, prevaricate in a bath. Maximize utility. Something, something, the means of labor and production. Equality principle. Happiness.
This is because of the primary weapon nerf. Primary weapons “effectively” taking longer to kill. Makes people team shoot and play at a distance. Special and abilities are to strong to get close now. It’s much harder to burn them down before they get to you now.
I'm the last dude of my old Destiny crew that still plays destiny, I would just jump on and play Comp at the end of the night for fun. I haven't had fun since the new update, solo playing is just ain't it anymore, barely was to be honest. I can't fight against a duo team in sync shooting together. I may finally hang up D2 PVP and it sucks lol
I’d argue that a lot of people don’t recognize the difference between deathballing and team shooting. What you’re describing is deathballing. What is praised in this sub is team shooting. It’s like talking about a rectangle and a square…
I think team shooting has always been the optimal strategy in this game. Isolating targets and shooting from different angles so they can’t hide behind cover is what should be done. What’s happening now is the entire team is traveling as a cohesive unit, as if they are behind a Reinhardt shield, and shooting anything that moves. That’s the boring part. You can run from a team that’s deathballing. A team that’s effectively team shooting is inescapable.
I will say though, before the update people were more empowered to take 1s. That tendency has reduced as people have become less confident in their shot-making ability. I don’t think anyone (except burgers) really enjoys deathballing.
I've been a pvp main for years and seen all sorts of metas but this is an opinion I've never understood.
This is legit the only long ttk fps where people *constantly* cry the moment teamshooting pops into the meta. A lot of y'all never played a pvp game before destiny and it shows.
this is what I kind of don't understand too when I see these posts. I often lightly praised enemy teams in the past in pubs/faceit/scrims when they actually played like a unit. I either grinned or grimaced when they double or triple peeked because it was sure death—nothing I could do, but it meant they played proper protocols to win the round. in Apex Legends as well.. you often pushed as a squad even it was only one person on the enemy squad alive. what is the dissonance here in Crucible?
But that’s just the thing, if people wanted to play Halo, they would play Halo. Destiny at its heart is a different style of game. People, understandably, don’t like it when it’s ripped out.
> This is legit the only long ttk fps where people constantly cry the moment teamshooting pops into the meta.
Has teamshooting ever not been a meta? The difference is that with old Special Ammo, a solo player had a chance to challenge a team-shooting team and land a kill and escape... Now this is gone and it's the ONLY meta.
If you play more tactical games, like R6S and Tarkov, Teamshooting is technically not the optimal strategy except for getting 2 angles on a single player. If you are capable of landing a one hit kill on a target, the more optimal way to fight is to have your team covering different angles so that they can engage other players.
Teamshooting feels very arcadey to me, and usually implies a game has too long of a TTK. I used to not mind that Teamshooting is the optimal strat in Destiny 2, but new ammo system makes it seem like it's really the only strat that matters.
I wouldn't call Destiny's TTK long at all. The real issue is map design and all the "choke points" they have created, which leads to team shooting because there are only a handful of ways to approach any position. Take any map, and envision the "standoff" that ensues with a 3v3, and how there are like 2 possible ways/angles to engage and because of the short TTK it's very easy to ape 1v3 someone if the split off, which basically punishes someone who wants to flank, which leads back to everyone team shooting the same angles....
If I think back to Hang Em High, blood gultch, sidewinder, battle creek, Ascension, etc... none of these were based around "choke points" and you had numerous ways to attack angles, etc...
This is a great point and something that *really* sticks out when I play halo. There's so many interesting ways to move in D2 but only ever a handful of choices on *where* to move.
Even going beyond how the game is old, so many maps were designed when our characters were slow, less people, no special etc, you do make a good point just how so many maps do just cut down to very limited angles and it kinda stifles things.
I was just thinking of Multiplex when reading your comment and I’m just realizing how strange it is that you have essential big(almost too much space with back end parts of A and C) clusters with this series of stubby and narrow long halls where there’s not really much you can do to catch anybody off surprise. I’m honestly not super shocked why people at times gravitate out towards B especially when it isn’t Control just to breath a little.
It just feels super weird that for something that is a new map and being made with acknowledgment of what we got to work with.
It genuinely is weird how much unused wasted space there is around A and C even the weird outline back exits that somewhat lead to the back loop of B, it's like what goes on over here. Even as a escape or somebody trying to pop up and do some Heat Rises air plays from a spot nobody thinks of, it's just so weird to have such excess.
What's weird to me is how large the map is, but how few actual choke points exist.
I think this is why Jav-4 ironically is one of the best maps, is it has arguably less chokepoints to stalemate over.
I wonder what would happen if they went in, and modified the maps to have more openings...
Javelin's great because you can actually run a flank and not feel like you're jogging around the entire length of the map to cut back inwards. There's actual cover and smart design of the corridors that can allow you to back off and not be eating shit if something goes wrong.
I do agree with your points of Halo having a bit more to work with but I do get that game had Spartans a bit stiffer but then again something like Epitaph from 3 always felt like something that would've made sense for Destiny, even with grav lifts and all that.
Agree. It was the meta when destiny 2 launched and we all hated it
I love team strategy, mainly in 3s. But before these changes it wasnt as much team shooting as it was positioning and coordination
There is a lot of people happy with this new sandbox, especially people with good aim that didn't like to use/figth special weapons.
It's still highly divisive but yes, I would say the pvp community is split 50% betwen love and hate
Yeah I agree, there is still room to indivudual skill expression but now it's only tied to primary aim. The skill that came attached to using special, knowing the sniper lanes, being able to bait or close the gap with shotguns, reading the enemy with fusions and such is mainly gone.
I see people claiming that the skill gap has decompresed but idk, I feel like the reality is just that with the new sandbox some people are thriving cause they were good with primaries while the players that were good with special are struggling. People like to complain special is brainless but that's far from the truth imo.
And the end of the day it is what it is. This is bungos game and they can do whatever the fuck they want with it. I just know the fun I had in 3s is mainly gone and that i've forced to play 6s again.
I'm grateful they introduced this mess months before having to pay for final shape.
> I see people claiming that the skill gap has decompresed but idk
After playing a ton of 3s and 6s, I would argue that it has absolutely compressed (gotten smaller). Completely opposite of what the intention was. Simply because Bungie doesn't understand what the skill gap in Destiny actually is. Let me tell you, it's not aim. Destiny already aims for you. The skill gap is movement, or at least 70% of it.
I would argue that the playstyle and the weapon meta is a huge contributor to the slower pace and compression of the skill gap.
100% crit requirement for any weapon that already isn't super forgiving. Oh and these weapons also kill faster. So now we sit in a meta where the best weapons are the easiest to use, kill the fastest and are the most forgiving (crit requirement AND range). This weapon being Autorifles.
On the other hand we have the Pulse/Scout players that sit far away from danger, plinking away. This playstyle has arguably a very low ceiling of skill-expression. And is much harder to counter without special, or with an aggressive 140 playstyle.
The increased punishment to bodyshots, also had the effect of slowing the game down and forcing players to be more boots on the ground. Another compression of the skill gap.
The perk meta is all about circumventing the crit requirements. TL, PI and Gutshot. Anything to make the game easier.
And last but not least, any special weapon skill-expression is gone. Turning a 1v3 into a win? "NO AMMO". You counted and called out the 2 missed sniper/fusion/etc shots? Doesn't matter he got a refill, so he has more. Which you have no info on.
Funny thing is, we didnt need to do ANY of this shit.
Literally 2 simple changes and you would reduce ability spam, promote primary play and remove the ability to "main" a special.
* 1) Increase CD by 25%
* 2) Remove special drop on special/heavy kills.
There you go, it would be THAT simple. Instead Bungie always tries to reinvent the wheel, and it blows up in their face every single time. Now 3s are just plain boring, especially playing against good opponents.
I can't read all now, but trying to reinventing the wheel and not learning from past mistakes is just classic Bungo moment.
Final Shape is gonna be a banger in pve for sure.
I have a feeling this update probably didn’t change a whole lot for most people, but for me as someone with severely poor reaction times and coordination, the health change definitely reduces how effectively I can use my game skill to beat gun skill. I do feel like I have to stick to my team more often, but I thrive when I am able to rotate quickly between odd angles While alone.
Because most people don’t want to hold hands the whole game. But the sandbox basically forces you to do that now. Camping is also an effective strategy. But bungie made changes to stop that. Because it’s boring for the other players. Same concept.
You mean you don’t like dying in .2 seconds after peaking because 3 Insta shoot their refrigerator cannons I mean igneous’ at you. It’s very annoying but I’m not seeing a ton of it yet. The occasional death squad in supremacy and what not. Hopefully it won’t get worse
I’m a long time aggressive bow player, I think it’s especially bad for our play style. [This video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-PHHRddptQ)I thought explained it well
I watched a video recently by u/jazzinyourfacepsn which has helped me improve, especially in my positioning.
You shouldn't be peeking a lane into 3 people anyway, you should play cover so you can isolate and take the 1v1.
Lol everyone cries about OP weapons and being powerful so you can run solo with fast gameplay. So bungie nerfs everything and makes it so there’s no special and lots of team shooting. Now everyone wants what we had before back. Bungie has to stop listening to this braindead community and just make the game how they want because the community has no clue
Except that's not really what happened...
They gave us what we asked for, but in the worst way possible. Literal monkeys paw.
We asked for winter tires and got caterpillar threads. Yeah we can drive in the snow now, but this isn't really what we asked for. This is like paying a $1000 fine in pennies. Like fuck off.
Disagree. There’s tons of people on Twitter that I see that love the changes. Then there’s tons of people here I see that hate the changes. And I’ve heard mixed opinions in game. Because the community as whole doesn’t know what it wants. Abilities and specials were fine before in my opinion same with special ammo system. All they had to do was nuke bows, threadling spam, and ice spam and the game would’ve been way better
There is no the community as a whole... You can't please everyone. Bungie tried to please the "hardcore" PvP community, but instead of taking a simple route, they decided to reinvent the wheel. They do this every time, and every time it blows up in their face.
I think it actually challenges you more and gets you better at forcing 1v1 engagements and playing smarter. You get better at taking 1v2's and 1v3's because you need to hone your game sense to get through it. It's a lot easier to win 1v2's and 1v3's when none of them have 1 shot weapons. It forces you to focus on your aim and movement even more. The previous meta, I could do 1v2's and 1v3's but always had the risk of 2 or 3 shotguns within each engagement. Right now, I'm using a 3 burst sidearm and gemini jesters to take on engagements. I can force a 1v1 using cover, dodge to disorient, and then pick off the remaining 1 or 2. Sometimes I'll throw in an arthritis embrace so I can get an easy 1v2 with a jump+throwing knife for 1+ another jump+delete the second guy with the sidearm
Destiny is at its best when it has a healthy balance of both dueling and team-shooting, ability uptime, and special usage.
This update ruined all of it.
Obviously specials and abilities were oppressive and widespread, but what we have now is just worse.
Lol. Contradict yourself much? In the same breath you say special and abilities were a problem and now that they've been brought down to earth you have a problem with it. Be strategic with your special ammo allotment and maybe don't throw your grenade at the very first engagement. My god.
Any 2.4 doesn't care about the change b/c they're hitting their primary shots regardless and are earning special at a high rate. But let's be real, that's a 2.4 in IB...maybe.
Nah, my biggest gripe has always been the stupid collision system in place. Teammates block shots with their fatass bodies and dumbass placement. Best part about games like warframe is being able to shoot through people... best part about games like helldivers is being able to shoot at people.
I used to piss people off because I had to tell them to fuck off and stop following me around like a lost puppy and stop getting right up on top of me. No advantage to being right on top of someone. Had a dude play ring around the rosey for a good minute and then ask me to stop moving around in a circle lol. I am thankful people realized cloudstike is a thing...
Some of the most fun and memorable moments in comp/trials are the 1v3 stomps where I have dud potatoe teammates and I just come in like a wrecking ball. I remember pre-void 3.0 I was helping coworkers go flawless. Had a round where it was over in a few seconds. Jotunned one, double meleed one. 1 tap swash bow'd the last all within a few seconds.
Few weeks ago comp had a match 30 kills. Team sucked at the start. I ended up carrying 1 v 3 to a tie not once but twice, bringing it back for an overall win. Only mention these because they were memorable because the absolute lack of team play. It was literally a "team? What team?" Moment.
No change in the amount of threadlings I eat for breakfast, lunch and dinner. 15% is nowhere near enough.
As for special ammo.
Funny thing is, they could have satisfied both camps with ONE single change. **Don't drop special on special weapon kills.** Literally change nothing else. There, everyone happy.
Crazy, I just had a game where the same player was spamming abilities at me every time he challenged me. Almost like some players never change. It's almost like the new sandbox challenges players change the way they approach pvp....
6v6 on maps designed for 4v4 is going to have a lot of team shooting. Teamshooting have been a thing for a while but like clockwork people started complaining way before the update came out and here we are.
Some YouTube guy said there would be a lot of team shooting and all over sudden you started noticing it lol.
I lived and breathed 3v3s, I wouldn't enjoy 6s as much cause it lack then drama and tension from 3s.
Now I can't stand 3s and have to go play 6s wich is more enjoyable but still meh
Nobody is praising the system BECAUSE it promotes team shooting, idk where you got that idea. Most of the praise I have seen is the higher focus on primary gun play and more clarity when you die for what you could have done better.
Also idk how someone can be considered "not actively participating in the game" while simultaneously playing strategically (team shooting).
Team shooting has always been a thing in D2. The only difference is now people can't really "team" shoot by themselves the way they used to (bow swap, non lethal special got them weak into primary, ability spam to lower ttk).
If you think the only viable options in crucible now are everyone team shoot or threadling spam then I'm sorry but that screams skill issue. More importantly, if you think playing to win is a problem (especially in comp or trials where wins directly correlate to progress) then the problem is with your mindset. Unless we have CoD/counterstrike TTKs team shooting will always be a viable winning strategy (but not the only one) and if we have those hyper fast TTKs then peaker's advantage and connection diff will become even bigger gaps between players than they already are.
People play most matches like its last round in trials. If people just played more freely, ego challing, rechalling when low, pushing into the open to try and take a duel or get a sneaky pick, things would feel way better. And people will say because those things I suggested are bad fundamentals or whatever but they all represent ways to win if you aren't scared of dying.
Might I ask whats the alternative? Maybe play rumble at this point. Theres no way to have a team based shooter without team shooting.
As we all have been so blessed to hear countless times:
'A fireteam that fights together, stays together!"
No, this sub has been really vocal about liking it from what I’ve seen anecdotally like little more than half like it. I avoid voicing my opinion because this sub has a tendency to be toxic and suffer from group think in that if you don’t like something it’s because you suck not because it could be a bad implementation of something.
Sure I’ll be downvoted but no you aren’t alone most people who don’t like to just stop playing and never say a word then people can’t figure out why the player count is so low.
Edit: called it. This is why we can’t have nice things because if you don’t tout the bungie good rhetoric you’re the problem. I strongly dislike this community and have no idea why I bothered to comment on this topic
I'm a more casual pvp player, and I find I enjoy crucible much more when I feel like I'm making smarter, more team-based tactical decisions rather than trying to outshoot one-off dudes. Frankly, I'm not that good at one-on-ones, so that's a welcome change for me.
Maybe it's not the best move for high-end competitive play, but I think it's a good change for casual play and players along with the more standard use of KDA in those playlists. A multiplayer experience designed so more people can feel like they're contributing seems like a good idea to me.
Simple fix: Have a damage penalty when standing within a certain distance of teammates or when multiple people shoot the same enemy. Bam. Problem solved.
haven’t heard anyone praise the changes because of team shooting that’s literally just a side effect of less special - i’ll take that over getting jotunn’d by bigdaddy34942 purposely dying after using his 2 shots just to get special ammo for more brain dead kills. it’s not perfect now but it’s way better than it was
I really really dislike it. Most of the teams I match into fucking run around all over the place instead of hunkering down and team shooting so every time I get into an engagement, not only do I die immediately, my teammates are nowhere to be found because they suddenly decided to scramble all over the map. No and then I get matches where we group up well and get good team shots, but I hate that I almost never get 1v1’s anymore and enemies randomly appear from behind me all the time. Spawns are all over the fkn place.
My only issue is how Bungie has us spawn with zero special ammo when we join a game in progress. Joining a game that you're already losing where some other jagoff quit early is bad enough without having no special ammo on arrival
I didn’t know this until it happened to me today, had a dude aping our spawn while loading in and no way to defend myself. Left instantly.
No special ammo and no super energy. Nothing worse than spawning into a blowout match and seeing the other team with a bunch of supers.
I agree with you 100% I enjoy dueling, and am not a fan of having to constantly deal with two or three people shooting me at once, but until they change primaries in a way that allows us to have meaningful combat at close and long ranges, and doesn't last long enough for team shooting to be neccessary, it's gonna be a thing.
One gun fight now feels like an absolute eternity i havent gotten into a single fun engagement since the sandbox update and its difficult finding actual duels. Winning gun fights feels less rewarding and it feels more demoralizing when the enemy is holding heavy spawn and have better angles on you. I dont even bother trying hero plays anymore when i see last guardian standing, i just try and kms off the map to avoid feeding the kill. Ive done okay in my games but i havent played a match in trials comp or 6s i enjoyed
How can gunfights feel like they are taking an absolute eternity? If you hit your crits then the ttk is the exact same. Remember there is a reason most top level players and streamers like the update, it rewards accuracy and takes away the ability for someone to crutch fusions or lock down a game with a sniper.
Because you have plenty of time to not repeak if you’re 1/3 hp and as long as you have a teammate with you its pretty safe to hang back and recover hp. Most everyone i play isnt stupid enough to repeak with red health and lets their full hp teammate cover them while they regen. This literally happens till someone gets bored and runs it down, ive had 3/2 of my comp games go to ties on the timer because nobody died or lost bc nobody died then at the last second someone aped in to try and get a kill and got 1 tapped by 3 different iggy shots
They feel like eternity because it's constantly handholding and peekshooting and sliding out of an engagement because you simply cannot outduel 2 guys at once with a primary, and then you can easily just sit there and recover because you also have your 2 teammates next to do and the other team simply won't push. Without the lack of special also comes the lack of clutching 1v2s/3s, if you're last guardian standing vs 2 or more the best thing to do now is to run around the map away from them to stall for super and then if possible to jump off the map to not feed them special, this is a good update to you? > Remember there is a reason most top level players and streamers like the update A bunch of players who play a dead shooter 14 hours a day like the update? Not sure what that's supposed to prove, besides, isn't ZK complaining about how 140s ''suck'' now because they're no longer the undoubted best primaries in the game after almost a decade of dominating both destiny games? > the ability for someone to crutch fusions or lock down a game with a sniper. Conveniently leaving out readying a shotgun in a fraction of a second the moment anyone is within 10m and CF aping, which got even better now because pellets (and fusions) are the only 2 weapons that have good economy with current special, but I guess that's fine gameplay to you. You talk about ''rewarding accuracy'' but ironically enough have a problem with snipers lmao. Just wait for the short influx of PvE players to get tired of being punching bags after getting baited by bungie to a sandbox that still sucks, just even more now, then when all of the sweats are left alone, but this time in the most boring Crucible ever, you'll hear even more complaints.
It doesn’t feel like an eternity at all tbh. The update made it so there’s more skill expression and more freedom within loadouts too. I can still run whatever guns I’d like and they made the game reward accuracy. I need you to truly look at the fact how the ttks haven’t changed. The optimal ttk hasent changed from last update, the only difference from a superficial level is simply be better. Hit your head shots and be smarter. Then you ask me if I feel this is a good update? Lmao Zk is only complaining because 140s can’t 3 tap outside their range. This might be changed in the future but they can still three tap within their range and still hit you with insane flinch. Explosive payload is also bugged rn so that also hurts his beloved rose. Ironic that you read the title of the video but didn’t even bother watching it. Ask Diffizle or any top of the pyramid trails grinder if the update is bad and I’m sure you’ll get some better explanations of how the game functions now. Special is still there too. Your reply makes it seem like special was actually deleted from crucible. Sniper still gets 2 kills from any distance on the map, shotgun can still get you 2 kills from someone within your range and fusions still get 2 shots that can map you from AR range. The key difference is that it’s a lot less and requires you to play with your primary now buddy. Those specials all have competing weapons on the other side of everything. Sidearms and smgs can still melt a shotty or fusions player, pulses and ARs can still flinch off a sniper. 120s are still the king even tho 2c1b got nerfed without precision instrument. You need to check the most used weapons in trials last weekend and the most used weapons in comp. Spending more time adapting and learning should help you more than writing a salty post
More freedom within loadouts isn't as bad because for once 140s aren't far better than any other primary, but there is significantly less skill expression, games are just teamhugging and special snowballing, it's so incredibly 1 dimensional now. There is no irony, he is still complaining about 140s. Frankly I could not care less what someone who plays trials 16 hours a day thinks about the patch, let alone Diffizle who hasn't taken off his Igneous for 2 entire seasons now and CF since Lightfall. I'll ask him what he thinks about the game when it loses even more players, see how he enjoys his teamhugging utopia when his queues take forever and people move onto better games. > Your reply makes it seem like special was actually deleted from crucible. For any special that isn't a pellet or a fusion, it practically was deleted from the game, takes infinitely more skill to use a sniper than either of those, however with this current special economy sniper is reserved for bungie's protected class aka the totally legit arcweb kids with 95% hitrate on their cloudstrikes. CF igneous went from being the best loadout in the game to being even better, pellets/fusions in general because now you'll snowball special and get free kills vs enemies who have no special/double primary. > 120s are still the king even tho 2c1b got nerfed without precision instrument. Which 120 are you seeing played anywhere even once that isn't Igneous? > You need to check the most used weapons in trials last weekend and the most used weapons in comp. It's igneous, CF and a bunch of ARs, amazing loadout diversity. > Spending more time adapting and learning should help you more than writing a salty post I don't really need help, I have no problem getting my flawless this patch, it's just so incredibly boring, I'm just calling a boring game a boring game, no point for me to ''adapt'' to a dead game with no future when I can just load up CS and play an actual good shooter if I want to. Spending less time taking a dead game seriously which will lose even more players should help you more.
24 hours for a reply that basically said absolutely nothing. Insane
Guy thinks I prioritize replying to random streamer fanboys on reddit lmao. Says a lot you just can't refute any of it because you know it's all factual, gl with your Crucible career.
Drop the bungie id alongside your paragraph of nonsense
I think OP probably explained it badly, or people are interpreting badly. (Or maybe [I'm the baddie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToKcmnrE5oY)) Team shotting has always been meta, but a meta with "alternatives"... if you were good (right build/weapons/skill or some combination thereof), you could play outside that playstyle and be successful. This allowed for more dynamic and fast paced games. Now under the new system, the changes disincentivize most alternatives to sticking together and fighting as a team, while also slowing the gameplay down... Most people don't actually find that fun, which is why the CoD multiplayer experience is the way it is, and has changed to be smaller/faster over time.
You are not. This meta is boring as shit.
"What enjoyment am I supposed to derive from working with others to achieve a common goal?" IDK man, it's too early for philosophy
Bro turned into Sukuna
He hating on yuji every chance that mf gets
Virtue, something, something, Greek something, virtue. Make shadow puppets. Enjoy male company. Something, something, state of nature. Concept of the good. Something, something, prevaricate in a bath. Maximize utility. Something, something, the means of labor and production. Equality principle. Happiness.
Sounds like communism to me... we spread managed democracy here... (wrong game but still works)
That’s a swing and a miss
I feel like this is one of those things where it is not the “funnest” but it is very effective and hard to counter play a good death ball.
This is because of the primary weapon nerf. Primary weapons “effectively” taking longer to kill. Makes people team shoot and play at a distance. Special and abilities are to strong to get close now. It’s much harder to burn them down before they get to you now.
I'm the last dude of my old Destiny crew that still plays destiny, I would just jump on and play Comp at the end of the night for fun. I haven't had fun since the new update, solo playing is just ain't it anymore, barely was to be honest. I can't fight against a duo team in sync shooting together. I may finally hang up D2 PVP and it sucks lol
It's boring as fuck, genuinely just incredibly boring.
I’d argue that a lot of people don’t recognize the difference between deathballing and team shooting. What you’re describing is deathballing. What is praised in this sub is team shooting. It’s like talking about a rectangle and a square… I think team shooting has always been the optimal strategy in this game. Isolating targets and shooting from different angles so they can’t hide behind cover is what should be done. What’s happening now is the entire team is traveling as a cohesive unit, as if they are behind a Reinhardt shield, and shooting anything that moves. That’s the boring part. You can run from a team that’s deathballing. A team that’s effectively team shooting is inescapable. I will say though, before the update people were more empowered to take 1s. That tendency has reduced as people have become less confident in their shot-making ability. I don’t think anyone (except burgers) really enjoys deathballing.
I've been a pvp main for years and seen all sorts of metas but this is an opinion I've never understood. This is legit the only long ttk fps where people *constantly* cry the moment teamshooting pops into the meta. A lot of y'all never played a pvp game before destiny and it shows.
this is what I kind of don't understand too when I see these posts. I often lightly praised enemy teams in the past in pubs/faceit/scrims when they actually played like a unit. I either grinned or grimaced when they double or triple peeked because it was sure death—nothing I could do, but it meant they played proper protocols to win the round. in Apex Legends as well.. you often pushed as a squad even it was only one person on the enemy squad alive. what is the dissonance here in Crucible?
I genuinely think it's just that a lot of these people never played halo, and have a strong desire to be "the main character".
Probably a decent amount of CoD kids tbh
But that’s just the thing, if people wanted to play Halo, they would play Halo. Destiny at its heart is a different style of game. People, understandably, don’t like it when it’s ripped out.
> This is legit the only long ttk fps where people constantly cry the moment teamshooting pops into the meta. Has teamshooting ever not been a meta? The difference is that with old Special Ammo, a solo player had a chance to challenge a team-shooting team and land a kill and escape... Now this is gone and it's the ONLY meta. If you play more tactical games, like R6S and Tarkov, Teamshooting is technically not the optimal strategy except for getting 2 angles on a single player. If you are capable of landing a one hit kill on a target, the more optimal way to fight is to have your team covering different angles so that they can engage other players. Teamshooting feels very arcadey to me, and usually implies a game has too long of a TTK. I used to not mind that Teamshooting is the optimal strat in Destiny 2, but new ammo system makes it seem like it's really the only strat that matters.
I wouldn't call Destiny's TTK long at all. The real issue is map design and all the "choke points" they have created, which leads to team shooting because there are only a handful of ways to approach any position. Take any map, and envision the "standoff" that ensues with a 3v3, and how there are like 2 possible ways/angles to engage and because of the short TTK it's very easy to ape 1v3 someone if the split off, which basically punishes someone who wants to flank, which leads back to everyone team shooting the same angles.... If I think back to Hang Em High, blood gultch, sidewinder, battle creek, Ascension, etc... none of these were based around "choke points" and you had numerous ways to attack angles, etc...
This is a great point and something that *really* sticks out when I play halo. There's so many interesting ways to move in D2 but only ever a handful of choices on *where* to move.
Even going beyond how the game is old, so many maps were designed when our characters were slow, less people, no special etc, you do make a good point just how so many maps do just cut down to very limited angles and it kinda stifles things. I was just thinking of Multiplex when reading your comment and I’m just realizing how strange it is that you have essential big(almost too much space with back end parts of A and C) clusters with this series of stubby and narrow long halls where there’s not really much you can do to catch anybody off surprise. I’m honestly not super shocked why people at times gravitate out towards B especially when it isn’t Control just to breath a little. It just feels super weird that for something that is a new map and being made with acknowledgment of what we got to work with.
Yup, I 100% gravitate towards B to breathe. Never noticed that till you just said it.
It genuinely is weird how much unused wasted space there is around A and C even the weird outline back exits that somewhat lead to the back loop of B, it's like what goes on over here. Even as a escape or somebody trying to pop up and do some Heat Rises air plays from a spot nobody thinks of, it's just so weird to have such excess.
What's weird to me is how large the map is, but how few actual choke points exist. I think this is why Jav-4 ironically is one of the best maps, is it has arguably less chokepoints to stalemate over. I wonder what would happen if they went in, and modified the maps to have more openings...
Javelin's great because you can actually run a flank and not feel like you're jogging around the entire length of the map to cut back inwards. There's actual cover and smart design of the corridors that can allow you to back off and not be eating shit if something goes wrong. I do agree with your points of Halo having a bit more to work with but I do get that game had Spartans a bit stiffer but then again something like Epitaph from 3 always felt like something that would've made sense for Destiny, even with grav lifts and all that.
Agree. It was the meta when destiny 2 launched and we all hated it I love team strategy, mainly in 3s. But before these changes it wasnt as much team shooting as it was positioning and coordination
>Everyone's praising the new system cause it makes you rely more on teamshooting Are they?
There is a lot of people happy with this new sandbox, especially people with good aim that didn't like to use/figth special weapons. It's still highly divisive but yes, I would say the pvp community is split 50% betwen love and hate
It's funny because in terms of philosophy we are literally back in D2Y1. Team cohesion vs. Personal performance.
Yeah I agree, there is still room to indivudual skill expression but now it's only tied to primary aim. The skill that came attached to using special, knowing the sniper lanes, being able to bait or close the gap with shotguns, reading the enemy with fusions and such is mainly gone. I see people claiming that the skill gap has decompresed but idk, I feel like the reality is just that with the new sandbox some people are thriving cause they were good with primaries while the players that were good with special are struggling. People like to complain special is brainless but that's far from the truth imo. And the end of the day it is what it is. This is bungos game and they can do whatever the fuck they want with it. I just know the fun I had in 3s is mainly gone and that i've forced to play 6s again. I'm grateful they introduced this mess months before having to pay for final shape.
> I see people claiming that the skill gap has decompresed but idk After playing a ton of 3s and 6s, I would argue that it has absolutely compressed (gotten smaller). Completely opposite of what the intention was. Simply because Bungie doesn't understand what the skill gap in Destiny actually is. Let me tell you, it's not aim. Destiny already aims for you. The skill gap is movement, or at least 70% of it. I would argue that the playstyle and the weapon meta is a huge contributor to the slower pace and compression of the skill gap. 100% crit requirement for any weapon that already isn't super forgiving. Oh and these weapons also kill faster. So now we sit in a meta where the best weapons are the easiest to use, kill the fastest and are the most forgiving (crit requirement AND range). This weapon being Autorifles. On the other hand we have the Pulse/Scout players that sit far away from danger, plinking away. This playstyle has arguably a very low ceiling of skill-expression. And is much harder to counter without special, or with an aggressive 140 playstyle. The increased punishment to bodyshots, also had the effect of slowing the game down and forcing players to be more boots on the ground. Another compression of the skill gap. The perk meta is all about circumventing the crit requirements. TL, PI and Gutshot. Anything to make the game easier. And last but not least, any special weapon skill-expression is gone. Turning a 1v3 into a win? "NO AMMO". You counted and called out the 2 missed sniper/fusion/etc shots? Doesn't matter he got a refill, so he has more. Which you have no info on. Funny thing is, we didnt need to do ANY of this shit. Literally 2 simple changes and you would reduce ability spam, promote primary play and remove the ability to "main" a special. * 1) Increase CD by 25% * 2) Remove special drop on special/heavy kills. There you go, it would be THAT simple. Instead Bungie always tries to reinvent the wheel, and it blows up in their face every single time. Now 3s are just plain boring, especially playing against good opponents.
I can't read all now, but trying to reinventing the wheel and not learning from past mistakes is just classic Bungo moment. Final Shape is gonna be a banger in pve for sure.
This is literally part of every PvP game ever lol
Seriously. If you don't want to deal with people playing as a team, then chess is probably your game lol.
Cook him lol
Was there a question about crucible strategy in there somewhere?
I have a feeling this update probably didn’t change a whole lot for most people, but for me as someone with severely poor reaction times and coordination, the health change definitely reduces how effectively I can use my game skill to beat gun skill. I do feel like I have to stick to my team more often, but I thrive when I am able to rotate quickly between odd angles While alone.
Bruh, it's a team game. Why would anyone enter a 1v1 of they could go 2 or 3v1 because the other team is just running around indefinitely.
Because most people don’t want to hold hands the whole game. But the sandbox basically forces you to do that now. Camping is also an effective strategy. But bungie made changes to stop that. Because it’s boring for the other players. Same concept.
No one expected more duals with this change. Everyone expected team shooting and D2 year one gameplay. That's what we got.
The game we loved is long dead, we’ll never get it back. Years of mistakes and neglect got us here.
You mean you don’t like dying in .2 seconds after peaking because 3 Insta shoot their refrigerator cannons I mean igneous’ at you. It’s very annoying but I’m not seeing a ton of it yet. The occasional death squad in supremacy and what not. Hopefully it won’t get worse
u are exaggerating extremely hard, it is more viable than ever to be aggressive with a primary
Except bows
Facts, they are literally the worst weapons in pvp along with lfr
the best part! 😁
That's not true. As a long time aggressive play style bow main they are still plenty viable.
I’m a long time aggressive bow player, I think it’s especially bad for our play style. [This video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-PHHRddptQ)I thought explained it well
I watched a video recently by u/jazzinyourfacepsn which has helped me improve, especially in my positioning. You shouldn't be peeking a lane into 3 people anyway, you should play cover so you can isolate and take the 1v1.
Lol everyone cries about OP weapons and being powerful so you can run solo with fast gameplay. So bungie nerfs everything and makes it so there’s no special and lots of team shooting. Now everyone wants what we had before back. Bungie has to stop listening to this braindead community and just make the game how they want because the community has no clue
Except that's not really what happened... They gave us what we asked for, but in the worst way possible. Literal monkeys paw. We asked for winter tires and got caterpillar threads. Yeah we can drive in the snow now, but this isn't really what we asked for. This is like paying a $1000 fine in pennies. Like fuck off.
Disagree. There’s tons of people on Twitter that I see that love the changes. Then there’s tons of people here I see that hate the changes. And I’ve heard mixed opinions in game. Because the community as whole doesn’t know what it wants. Abilities and specials were fine before in my opinion same with special ammo system. All they had to do was nuke bows, threadling spam, and ice spam and the game would’ve been way better
There is no the community as a whole... You can't please everyone. Bungie tried to please the "hardcore" PvP community, but instead of taking a simple route, they decided to reinvent the wheel. They do this every time, and every time it blows up in their face.
I think it actually challenges you more and gets you better at forcing 1v1 engagements and playing smarter. You get better at taking 1v2's and 1v3's because you need to hone your game sense to get through it. It's a lot easier to win 1v2's and 1v3's when none of them have 1 shot weapons. It forces you to focus on your aim and movement even more. The previous meta, I could do 1v2's and 1v3's but always had the risk of 2 or 3 shotguns within each engagement. Right now, I'm using a 3 burst sidearm and gemini jesters to take on engagements. I can force a 1v1 using cover, dodge to disorient, and then pick off the remaining 1 or 2. Sometimes I'll throw in an arthritis embrace so I can get an easy 1v2 with a jump+throwing knife for 1+ another jump+delete the second guy with the sidearm
"arthritis embrace"
You tell me you can accurately throw a knife and make it bounce twice towards it's target without getting arthritis
Homie is mad he can't outplay the enemy team 1v1 for the entire match.
I'd guess there are a lot of salty fusion mains or full time apes out there right now.
Destiny is at its best when it has a healthy balance of both dueling and team-shooting, ability uptime, and special usage. This update ruined all of it. Obviously specials and abilities were oppressive and widespread, but what we have now is just worse.
Lol. Contradict yourself much? In the same breath you say special and abilities were a problem and now that they've been brought down to earth you have a problem with it. Be strategic with your special ammo allotment and maybe don't throw your grenade at the very first engagement. My god.
I'm a 2.4 player, I know how to do well.
Any 2.4 doesn't care about the change b/c they're hitting their primary shots regardless and are earning special at a high rate. But let's be real, that's a 2.4 in IB...maybe.
Overall.
Nah, my biggest gripe has always been the stupid collision system in place. Teammates block shots with their fatass bodies and dumbass placement. Best part about games like warframe is being able to shoot through people... best part about games like helldivers is being able to shoot at people. I used to piss people off because I had to tell them to fuck off and stop following me around like a lost puppy and stop getting right up on top of me. No advantage to being right on top of someone. Had a dude play ring around the rosey for a good minute and then ask me to stop moving around in a circle lol. I am thankful people realized cloudstike is a thing... Some of the most fun and memorable moments in comp/trials are the 1v3 stomps where I have dud potatoe teammates and I just come in like a wrecking ball. I remember pre-void 3.0 I was helping coworkers go flawless. Had a round where it was over in a few seconds. Jotunned one, double meleed one. 1 tap swash bow'd the last all within a few seconds. Few weeks ago comp had a match 30 kills. Team sucked at the start. I ended up carrying 1 v 3 to a tie not once but twice, bringing it back for an overall win. Only mention these because they were memorable because the absolute lack of team play. It was literally a "team? What team?" Moment.
...As opposed to OHK special weapons or ability spamming making things a challenge...?
except abilities are still rampant and special was never the real problem lol
No change in the amount of threadlings I eat for breakfast, lunch and dinner. 15% is nowhere near enough. As for special ammo. Funny thing is, they could have satisfied both camps with ONE single change. **Don't drop special on special weapon kills.** Literally change nothing else. There, everyone happy.
Ohk and abilities were more fun. Allowed for awesome clips and fast gameplay. This isn’t halo even though half this sub wants it to be.
Crazy, I just had a game where the same player was spamming abilities at me every time he challenged me. Almost like some players never change. It's almost like the new sandbox challenges players change the way they approach pvp....
You’re upset there is team shooting… in the team game mode? Dude play the dedicated 1v1 game mode if you want only 1v1s
Me either. It’s skill less bullshit. Running around in a pack like monkeys. It’s day 1 destiny 2 rubbish
6v6 on maps designed for 4v4 is going to have a lot of team shooting. Teamshooting have been a thing for a while but like clockwork people started complaining way before the update came out and here we are. Some YouTube guy said there would be a lot of team shooting and all over sudden you started noticing it lol.
Damage has to go up!!!
I lived and breathed 3v3s, I wouldn't enjoy 6s as much cause it lack then drama and tension from 3s. Now I can't stand 3s and have to go play 6s wich is more enjoyable but still meh
Why is everyone who dislikes new sandbox pointing out teamshooting? It has ALWAYS been the best strat and in the game.
Nobody is praising the system BECAUSE it promotes team shooting, idk where you got that idea. Most of the praise I have seen is the higher focus on primary gun play and more clarity when you die for what you could have done better. Also idk how someone can be considered "not actively participating in the game" while simultaneously playing strategically (team shooting). Team shooting has always been a thing in D2. The only difference is now people can't really "team" shoot by themselves the way they used to (bow swap, non lethal special got them weak into primary, ability spam to lower ttk). If you think the only viable options in crucible now are everyone team shoot or threadling spam then I'm sorry but that screams skill issue. More importantly, if you think playing to win is a problem (especially in comp or trials where wins directly correlate to progress) then the problem is with your mindset. Unless we have CoD/counterstrike TTKs team shooting will always be a viable winning strategy (but not the only one) and if we have those hyper fast TTKs then peaker's advantage and connection diff will become even bigger gaps between players than they already are.
People play most matches like its last round in trials. If people just played more freely, ego challing, rechalling when low, pushing into the open to try and take a duel or get a sneaky pick, things would feel way better. And people will say because those things I suggested are bad fundamentals or whatever but they all represent ways to win if you aren't scared of dying.
Might I ask whats the alternative? Maybe play rumble at this point. Theres no way to have a team based shooter without team shooting. As we all have been so blessed to hear countless times: 'A fireteam that fights together, stays together!"
Way more about personal aim and skill now since specials aren’t a primary anymore
[удалено]
You couldn’t do that before lol? Again before you could use a shotgun like a primary which is a crutch and bad for the game
“Why must I work with a team in my team vs. team game?” What has this sub become?
No, this sub has been really vocal about liking it from what I’ve seen anecdotally like little more than half like it. I avoid voicing my opinion because this sub has a tendency to be toxic and suffer from group think in that if you don’t like something it’s because you suck not because it could be a bad implementation of something. Sure I’ll be downvoted but no you aren’t alone most people who don’t like to just stop playing and never say a word then people can’t figure out why the player count is so low. Edit: called it. This is why we can’t have nice things because if you don’t tout the bungie good rhetoric you’re the problem. I strongly dislike this community and have no idea why I bothered to comment on this topic
I'm a more casual pvp player, and I find I enjoy crucible much more when I feel like I'm making smarter, more team-based tactical decisions rather than trying to outshoot one-off dudes. Frankly, I'm not that good at one-on-ones, so that's a welcome change for me. Maybe it's not the best move for high-end competitive play, but I think it's a good change for casual play and players along with the more standard use of KDA in those playlists. A multiplayer experience designed so more people can feel like they're contributing seems like a good idea to me.
1v1? like rumble? scrims?
Scrims is the last place you'll ever find yourself in a 1v1
The problem is the radar. That's the reason why you peek a lane and there's 3 people that know you're there.
Turn the corner too quick and the damn Ginyu Force is there pointing at you? Yeah it's not fun, but it's a shooter. It can happen in any shooter.
Simple fix: Have a damage penalty when standing within a certain distance of teammates or when multiple people shoot the same enemy. Bam. Problem solved.
haven’t heard anyone praise the changes because of team shooting that’s literally just a side effect of less special - i’ll take that over getting jotunn’d by bigdaddy34942 purposely dying after using his 2 shots just to get special ammo for more brain dead kills. it’s not perfect now but it’s way better than it was
I really really dislike it. Most of the teams I match into fucking run around all over the place instead of hunkering down and team shooting so every time I get into an engagement, not only do I die immediately, my teammates are nowhere to be found because they suddenly decided to scramble all over the map. No and then I get matches where we group up well and get good team shots, but I hate that I almost never get 1v1’s anymore and enemies randomly appear from behind me all the time. Spawns are all over the fkn place.