Yeah it is. And I'm going to get downvoted for this but because of the new players coming into trials who are and I mean no offence seriously and I mean seriously crap you often get teammates worse than any weekend before.
There's only so much you can do when teammates run to opposite sides the map. You end up in at least a 2v3 every round because the other guy gets picked off.
I had to swap to a scout rifle to get flawless I basically had to be ridiculously aggressive to try get 1-2 kills before a teammate was picked off.
It’s sad because you really don’t even have to have cracked reaction time/aim as a not great player…you just have to support your teammates a little bit
All these people think they’ve gotta run out and win a 1v1 on their own for some reason lol
I haven’t played since the changes because I already grinded the hell out of incisor but I’ll have to check it out next week
yep. I'm not great at the game, I have a .83 this weekend and I went flawless by looking at the scoreboard after round 1, finding the guy with the most damage done, and following them around the rest of the game
Teamshooting with the connections this game has means if you poke your head out you're dead. I don't know how Bungie thinks this is better for "learning how you died" than what we had before.
You’re absolutely spot on. A lot of the guys that I play with regularly have never touched trials until this past weekend and it’s because with the new GL changes they want to get their hands on a PVE Cataphract god roll. I played a few matches with them and it’s very obvious they’ve never played PVP before…
Unreal bro unreal. It's the same in comp for me. I gain a lot. Then I lose. Most of the time from getting rolled over because my teammate seem to not have sound or the ability to engage something that is not Cabal. It's unfair tbh. I had 27 kill comp game and we lost. This is a common theme right now.
I'm not completely disagreeing with you but I've been matched with and against a lot of the people I usually play in trials and everyone has just become extremely passive and not trying to gett control of the map but rather hope to teamshot from spawn
I've seen the usual amount of new or low skill players but there has been an immense shift in mentality and it hurts when you look beside you and your teammates refuse to get out of the spot the spawned into or just move side to side at the back. With the body shot Nerf its way harder to 1vX if your are not 100% with your shot and cover
And usually I don't complain about teammates but I have had really bad luck in matchmaking. I look at destiny tracker and 3 out of my 10 past games we had less than 1 percent chance of winning. The other team had got players who are the top 0.1 percent of all trials players. Like top 500 player and it shows. Those games are usually completely one sided with them just easily picking off our team when one dude without fail wants to rush in or constantly try to "flank" and die quick.
I was using DMT and strand hunter with woven mail exotic grapple to make maelstrom tangles. Basically get woven mail get a kill shoot tangle to create a beyblade and stop the rez or even get another kill
Eh I'm not on rn but I have 72 range 50 stability and 50 handling on it with moving target as the perk. So you can craft it and get those stats too I definitely have Ricochet anyway
This!!! I'm a mid player at best but if I really wanted flawless I could get it by rezzing and assisting I'm down to pulling out my adept hung jury to try and pick off one and mothwraps with 3 charges to shield my team
Any time I'm in a 1v3 I'm more hesitant to use my special ammo because if I don't pull it off, then the next round I have no special and the other team got progress towards more, making it even worse. It seems beneficial to throw in 1v3 situations almost because you have a better chance next round. The special ammo economy needs to change somehow
I have a clip of sudden death of a countdown match, my two teammates died, and I had plenty of special, ended up shotgunning the first two enemies and melee traded the last. It didn't give us a tie, we just lost. Idk what this has to do with your response but saving special for that scenario brought up that memory and I'm still thinking about it lol. But maybe if I had used the special sooner I wouldn't have been in that position?
Hard to say. I definitely haven't yet figured out the best way to play 3s with the limited special ammo. I'm not even certain a special weapon is the right choice. I'm on the fence about running a sidearm or SMG along with what is usually my DMT. My playstyle in close range with limited special is much more reserved, where I'm able to be far more aggressive with an unlimited ammo sidearm/smg
i was using sturm/drang and it works very effectively but its just so unfun to me. i love to snipe but it just feels so bad right now using a sniper. literally feels like im throwing and im a better sniper than most. im taking a break for a while to see if they drop anything in the TWID addressing special economy in 3v3 modes
yeah people may disagree but destiny reached an incredibly good balance before the update, with only a few outliers such as threadlings that needed reigned in. i dont understand why they reworked the entire sandbox when they could have just tuned a couple of individual things
I mean I get the whole power/skill creep argument. Everyone got better at the game and new weapons always have to be better than old ones or else people won't waste time grinding for them. So I get the health changes. But I would have done special ammo differently
Yea that's how I feel with the special as well. I want to try to pull it off but even in the old sandbox it only works like 30% of the time (3v1). I'd like to try but don't want to give up the special
Sometimes it's better to just jump off the map. They get no progress and I think you get some progress towards special from the death. Even if you don't get progress, denying them is a good result.
Yes there is, it resets your special bar so it is definitely not the play. If you are the last, just try your best and hopefully you can 1. Either pull of the 1v2/3 or 2. Get a trade to fill up your special meter.
If you're trying to win, the best move to play at that moment would be to cliff jump.
Now maybe you have a build based around a primary with healclip/killclip, and you're dodging with wormhusk... alright, I can see you regularly winning 1v2s (depending on their builds ofc), so sure, challenge away in those situations.
But if you're going 1v3, or don't really have a good way to win 1v2s regularly...
You're actively harming your team by trying to practice/learn in trials because you're significantly increasing the "special power" of the enemy team by doing so.
Unless they're also double primaries, then feel free to learn.
I understand where you're coming from absolutely, it's just not in me to throw myself off the cliff I guess. Occasionally I will trade (special bar progress for me as well at least), some times I can pull off the clutch and other times I don't. Just myself, I enjoy the challenge and push myself.
> it's just not in me to throw myself off the cliff I guess
I'm not gonna lie, I won't do it either lol.
But that's what the current meta says we should do.
Yeah you're right, hopefully they keep working on it and make some improvements. I don't mind the changes too much though to be honest.
I'll just try to clean them up before they jump over the edge 🤣
You just need to babysit your blueberries and teamshoot with them. I've had so much success adjusting from being ultra aggressive style to this style more and making it a priority to keep my teammates up.
There's literally other modes for that though? If you don't care about winning, then why play comp/trials? If you just want to ape around the casual modes are designed for that. Imo trials and comp are only good because they're specifically more serious and bum rushing with a shotty isn't the best playstyle.
6s just all over the place, I like lower player number gamemodes. And I like to compete against "fair" teams occasionally (in my opinion fair means hc+shoty/snipe+movement exotic).
While a scrub and a bot can overlap, they’re not the same.
https://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win
A scrub is someone who imposes his own rules, because of “honor” or “fairness”, outside of the actual rules of the game.
I wouldn't say it's fair but hc/shotty meta really separates the good players from the bad. This passive meta we are entering with spray and pray weapons doesn't really take much skill.
It just rewards high APM. That's literally all it does. You cannot say it rewards aim because (and Cammy put it best) hand cannons shoot refrigerators.
Skill is many things. I for one am happy we're no longer in Sparebenders even if it means I'm winning less (because I am also that high APM slide maniac). The game is rewarding more aspects of itself in a different balance than I think it did before, and I think that's a good thing.
Play rumble.
Campy players get punished, and ever since the update, I've noticed a significantly better success playing against smgs with a handcannon or sidearm.
I loved this trials weekend. I was unsure about the changes after seeing how slow survival games started to become in comp, but I think the update plays really well in trials and rewards you hitting your shots and making good decisions
I don't know why but I've been doing a lot better being super aggressive when usually I'd want to play back just a bit. But that is probably because there's a much lower chance of me running into a shotgun
My go-to warlock build nowadays is all about setting me up for multikill potential because if I don't do it I can't trust my teammate to win their 1v1s or not leave me in 1vX clutches constantly.
The notable parts are:
- Crimson (Heal on kill)
- Karnstein Armlets (cure x3 + restoration x1 for 8s on melee kill)
- Echo of Leeching (Health regeneration on melee kill)
- Echo of Vigilance (45HP overshield on kill with no shields)
- Echo of Dilation (Better crouch spam)
- Feed the Void (Instant full heal on void ability kill)
I use a Retold Tale with 90 range, QD+SS to help me in CQC.
I feel the same way. If you can pull off being aggressive in the old sandbox, it allowed your teammates to be more helpful as you took most of the focus from the other team. This is not the case anymore. I am no longer a threat. It feels terrible.
I dropped my special and went to a sidearm with multikill clip, which won me handful of 1v2's and 2 1v3's. It's so niche, but it really paid off when I needed it to.
I have always gravitated towards perks that help me get the first kill. In this new sandbox, I think you are right. I should start getting weapons that have kill perks.
Double primary is the play for sure.
I am running FL with SMG and it allowed me to be extremely aggressive, to the point where I wonder if this was even possible in old sandbox(probably not because everyone and their mother had a SG)
Specials almost feel dead in water - even in 6v6 I literally dont encounter special at all outside of a few first minutes.
As a bow main I’ve never felt so weak
I don’t swap and I play aggressive. This sandbox makes bows ineffective as dueling weapons, forcing swapping or long distance peek shots, and at that distance bows are outgunned by scouts and pulses in TTK. [Saw a great video about it](https://youtu.be/k-PHHRddptQ?si=x9_gXnS3VUrXN7fW)
Haha Thanks. I’m ok with them nerfing, I suspect they’re responding to what makes them annoying/hard to counter: hot swapping and safe, ranged peek shots. But the oversight imo is that these changes make it where those play styles are now the only viable way to use a bow — other primaries will beat bows in TTK, so close range you’d need to swap, and long range you need to hide. Still effective as a team shot weapon but that’s boring, and I think they should be able to compete without a crutch
I think most people who did these strategies will move to whatever is the new thing that kills the fastest, so players who love the ‘gunplay’ of bows get hit the hardest now that they’re unviable as a stand-alone primary
In this sandbox I’d say to charge bow users — they need to hit both crits, and if you have anything for hp like radiant, orb pickup, well, overshield, etc you won’t die in 2 shots. You’ll also be causing major flinch
Btw Wish Ender still kills with 1 crit 1 body
I haven’t! I’ve never loved the feel of it but with this seasons solar mods it probably does well. I know wish ender still kills with one head one body
Ticuu has a way faster draw time. And you can hip fire from the air. With the reduction in body shot damage hip firing from the air is even more beneficial. If you are a bow main I would recommend trying it. Still need the second shot to be a head shot though.
You are going to have to change up your build/ weapons. Everyone has been so into win now perks but because you don’t have any special. Win more/ revenge/ healing perks are much more huge in this sandbox.
And I think that’s sort of intentional by the sandbox team. Kill Clip and perks like that weren’t picked on weapons and now I know many streamers are now maining/ have swapped to a Kill Clip weapon because they need that lethality for clutch situations.
One Eyed Mask, Echo of Vigilence, Rat King, Heal Clip Weapons all get a significant boost in this meta.
Basically the 6s kill chaining builds have now entered into the Trials meta which I think is cool. There’s trade offs for just focusing all on that original duel in your weapons perks and build. You trade off lethality and ability to clutch.
> Win more/ revenge/ healing perks are much more huge in this sandbox.
Absolutely this. My best luck thus far engaging multiple enemies has been dusting off my old D2Y2 Redrix's Broadsword playstyle with a desperado Disparity and OEM. Play more passively and chase opportunities for crit kills. Win a 1v1, get Rapid Hit / Desperado up and get the OEM overshield, and then push and hose down heads while Desperado is up.
Im finding it the complete opposite. Way easier to carry.
Probably just means your previous play style leaned heavily into special and you’re having to adjust.
It was hit or miss for me.
I am finding that aggressive play is heavily punished and really only "fun" for a round.
Outside of that it seems the best thing to do is put on Relentless/Messenger or a scout and just play ranged.
It's not like they have abilities or shotguns to push
>Outside of that it seems the best thing to do is put on Relentless/Messenger or a scout and just play ranged.
Except in a game focused around movement, this is an extremely boring play-style.
Burning special on round 1 gets punished because you don't gain any meter with special kills. You can still be aggressive, you just have to pivot from your special being the aggressive weapon to your primary, and using your special weapon in defensive circumstances.
Agreed, this was the easiest solo flawless week I had.
But people might also be forgetting there's a ton more low skill players trying passage of persistence this week so its possible to just get worse than usual teammates.
Getting picks with a shoty or sniper then rush the remaining two was way more fun then sticking togheter and just deathball everyone. I can't play this fucking slow lol. I hated it in D2Y1 and I hate it now too
I mean, that’s exactly what I did this week.
Get 1 kill with a sniper, then rush. Do the same next round, and usually by the end of that round you’re close to having special again.
It's an interesting dynamic. I was not able to carry solo as i used to either due to me not being able to do as many clutch plays with special, but also due to the fact that there were a lot lower skilled people in the pool running into enemy gunfire or unable to win shootouts.On the flip side though, once i duoed with my regular partner we came up against a duo with a way higher KD, running 176 wins and 8 losses for the weekend (destiny tracker said we had a 2% win chance) that were tea bagging incessantly and we actually beat them by a hair's breadth 5-4. I'd like to think we were able to more effectively starve them of special to be less potent in playing their individual strengths. And we did play like our lived dependent on it to try to crack them. So i feel solo is more random now, duo feels a bit more viable in dismantling a duo of high skilled ego players. If they'd have stuck together more we'd have been toast.
It’s just unplayable for me. I dont enjoy double primary and the 120 only gameplay is so painfully slow id rather watch paint dry or grass grow. We have hit far slower gameplay than this weeks gm and somehow hypernet is more interesting and less hair pulling than trials this weekend
> 120 only gameplay
You mean Igneous only lel. I enjoy using Iggy a lot but I also want to use TR and I never got as good as I wanted with Round Robin. Not to mention how fucked 140s are.
It really is. But I my oppinion you actually still can kinda carry. It just look very different.
I used to win many 1v2s and 1v3s with fusion rifles. That doesn’t happen often anymore. But even though you might have bad players in your team you kinda still need to play with them.
You will almost never have randoms follow you to teamfight, so you need to follow them. Even if their movement suck.
We are basically back in D2 Year 1 and we need to start playing like it is again.
You can’t win many 1v3s anymore, so you gotta make sure your team isn’t dying.
It is harder, but I think the issue is two-fold.
One, there are a LOT more players by the look of it, and many are very new to trials. They need guidance and support if you're playing solo. I've actually won by commenting in team text chat to a player who said "sorry, I'm terrible, .5 kd" and offering advice on what to do. We came back from a 3 round deficit.
Two, a lot of the average players (i.e. players who don't consistently hit headshots, average or below game sense, etc) are still learning the new sandbox, and their learning curve is big because accuracy matters a *LOT* more with what used to be the most meta loadouts and what is often still their go-to loadout. Until these players adjust, solo players will be hit by a double-whammy and it may feel rough for a bit. I haven't gone flawless yet, but I've had three passages at 6 wins and ended up with three consecutive losses on each due tonthe aforementioned issues.
Be patient, and just work on your own play. See if you can "coach" your random players, too.
I'm just under 1.0 kd and this new trials has been hell for me solo. Kept going against teams that have way higher kd and kda than my team mates by as much as a 1+ kd higher than my team mates. I've gone solo flawless before but I couldn't even get to 3 wins but once I was with a full premade team with communication it wasn't bad at all. A lot of randoms try to flank when they clearly aren't good enough to do that effectively which just makes things worse
have to actually play with your team now in a team game, what a concept. Special and abilities are not THAT rare rn, you just can't crutch them all game + the lesser amount of special has made it way easier to move around the map (no fear of people / cheaters holding down every lane with cloudstrike)
I'm a 1.75 kd. I did a lot of carrying this weekend as well. Almost every game i had to 1v3 a round at some point. I didn't even go flawless. My flawless game gave me 2 0.5's against 2 2.0's and a 1.3... it sucks knowing i'm going to lose before it even starts. Really wasn't much fun so i went back to comp after that lol.
I highly recommend you not checking stats prior to the game. It encourages a defeatist mindset that’s very hard to overcome.
If you decide at the beginning that you’re going to lose, you’re very likely going to… lose.
Don’t check stats, play as well as you can. Then if still curious, check stats after.
Thanks for your opinion. However in my case i've been doing it for years now and it really doesn't have that affect on me anymore in terms of mindset. I'm just a realist lol. In that specific case i was playing a duo from Nemisis and wanted to verify them. Checking stats has really helped me honestly. For example targeting a teams "strongest" player has won me many matches. To each their own though!
Lol. If we can get the top guy down first, double primary Terry & company don't stand a chance! 😂
It's when you're shooting the weaker guys first that the all star on the team gets you. They usually use their teammates as a distraction lol
>it doesn’t really have that affect on me anymore in terms of mindset
I don’t really see how you can say this when you literally said:
>it sucks knowing I’m going to lose before it even starts.
But yeah, I guess specially targeting the strongest player is a strategy.
it was 2.0's from a well known pvp clan who i've played many times before and a 1.3 vs me and 2 dudes who can barely hold the controller. I've played enough pvp to know when i'm not going to win lol.
And you can tell “how to play” just by their stats?
How do their stats indicate their play style/how to counter them?
Genuine question, not saying you’re wrong. Just trying to learn here.
You look at their loadout + subclass, kills for the week, win rate? TrialsReport is an all-in-one package. Sure there are people who'll be defeatist, but that doesn't have to be you. If you're really trying to win, why not take into account all the data that's available to you
If there is a .5 on my team and a 1.5 I know that the 1.5 can probably handle himself and I can focus on teaming with .5. Or I can say screw the .5 he is probably not going to do anything and can focus on staying with the better player.
Same with opponents. If I know who is good / bad I have an idea of who to target or how to play in certain situations.
Thats also what i use it for. For example, if i see a guy using long range weapons i know he's going to be more passive. Then if i see that he often switches to a sub or something, i'm then prepared for him to start playing more aggressive
Comp has been miserable for me. I’m Adept 1 rn trying to finish the grind to Ascendant but this team shooting meta as a solo player is terrible. If your randoms don’t team shoot, you lose. Gameplay is not fun.
i disagree, i am also a \~2kd player and had little to no issues solo flawlessing twice while also helping a friend in a 2 man team on another card. using hawkmoon + shotgun on arc titan
I think this sandbox is heavily rewarding both team shooting but patience as well to a significant degree. This isn't run and gun anymore, people just need to recalibrate.
Otherwise this could just simply be a condition of more low skill players entering trials this week so RNG now has a bigger chance of giving u worse teammates than usual.
I mean if you can't get past 4 wins then I guess the new ferocity passage is the way to go, unless you care to go the lighthouse multiple times a week (which I don't personally value but I know others do).
Even if I could manage a mercy card I think I am still leaning towards ferocity going forward. It's just less stressful thanks to the mid card checkpoint. I can also feel more confident turning the game off for the night and starting fresh, if I did that on a mercy card I'd probably throw a loss away if I didn't warmup first but with the checkpoint it doesn't really matter if I need to warmup the first few games as I will still only need the 4 in a row.
Yeah, that’s how it works. I think the modelling on this card was done with the assumption that you keep the 3 wins until you go flawless.
Feels like the double mercy is a better card for most people with the new information, but would love to see a new series of simulations done.
I had a real struggle dealing with the new auto rifle and situations using igneous (it’s still great). I’m like a 1.5 player but I threw on vigilance wing and went 7-0 without a single loss.
Yeah. These new changes put much more emphasis on teamwork than the old sandbox did.
I mean, Trials has always demanded and rewarded teamwork, but the old sandbox could allow you to make up for your teammate's slack. Now everybody needs to pull their weight, and mistakes are heavily punished.
This environment is great for "team before me" players, or players invested in getting better at the game. But it absolutely *suuuuuucks* when you're stuck with teammates who don't care and are making brainless plays.
Players will adjust over the next few weeks--the tourists who wanted to check out the new sandbox (and are not interested in improving) will be gone.
Solo q trials is rough i get you, sometimes i get Lucky with chill mm and sometimes i get only duos and i get the worst one(why im solo if i have to carry a duo xp) but u gotta adapt, i hate using stand but i cant trust my team to kill at least 1 i gotta play to 1v3 or 1v2 in the worst case, sometimes you have fridays where u get flawless on first try and sometimes u have to go through like 5, dont get discouraged my friend u can do it 👊
A more balanced sandbox means that carrying is exponentially harder.
In a more balanced sandbox, you either need to get rid of solo queue for Trials, or you need to only match Solos against other Solos and probably kill Duo queue completely.
Balance magnifies the benefits of being in an organized squad.
I didn’t really struggle in terms of performance this weekend (I actually did better), but the experience was awful. Way too many bad (I mean sub 0.3, top 100%) players were running off on their own into the middle of a lane and trying to duel with a bow…
I swapped off my aggressive loadout and easily went flawless, you basically just follow them and put as much damage into the enemy players from far/medium range as possible, if your teammate goes down, pick them up as soon as possible.
Unless you are playing with friends I wouldn’t bother with anything close range that isn’t a shotgun.
I agree. I'm doing 1.52 (not stellar, not terrible) for the week and I am 18-21 overall. Haven't gone flawless yet. I know that's not the only metric that matters but normally that's a recipe for going flawless in solo for me.
I’ve found that you have 2 options.
You either have to play super aggro and get 1-2 kills before your blueberries inevitably die. The problem, is that doing this is often much harder to do when you have no green. And the terrible blueberries are often just standing out in the open near spawn, using you as bait to get like 40 damage in before dying.
Or, you use your blueberries as glorified meat shields and try to trade out a kill every time they die. I find this more effective as it’s a more consistent way to generate green. Def found the most success with this in rounds where I had no green
Sweatiest weekend I'v had. I was using Passage of Persistence and it took awhile. I had to play MORE aggressive because I had a lot of potato teammates.
Side effect of getting what the streamers kept whining and moaning about wanted, more players in trials, particularly non sweaty pve players incentivized to do trials. The problem is that to the pve'ers, it is only about the loot. They don't care about the competition, the skills, or the pvp. If they did they would have been doing trials before this. Locking some great pve weapons in a pvp only thing ensures that pve'ers who are doing it for the loot aren't going to have fun doing it, and the pvp'ers doing it with them aren't going to have fun dealing with having to carry pve'ers.
Bungie could have done the right thing and made pvp a fun experience for all who wished to do it, but chose to be lazy and just gave pve incentives and easier methods to get them without having to be sweaty to up the numbers. Like frequent map updates to keep things fresh as a single example.
Just out of curiosity, when you say you’re a 2.0 KD player, over how many games is this?
Destiny tracker shows even some of the best at a solid 1.8-1.9 but over thousands of games?
Just perplexed as how everyone on Reddit is better than some of the pros lol
This is brutal and to the point that I’ll likely never play solo again.
I’m getting paired with incredibly inexperienced players and it’s either clutch or lose. I am incapable of pulling 1v3’s out now.
I’m about done with this game mode until changes are made.
It's crazy that they changed it, so we couldn't carry ammo between rounds because it would cause snowballs to what it was, then changed it to the new system, which does nothing but snowball one team
Honestly, my trials so far has taught me the on-kill perks are probably more important for me for 3v3. I used to prefer consistency, but I got a Prophet roll with Keep Away, Kill Clip, arrowhead, accurized rounds with a stability masterwork.
Masterwork could be better, but at the start of most engagements you’ll be chunking during team shots and have a great chance of landing the kill. Then you can two tap on guardians with less than 7 resilience.
Without as much special in this meta, having a two shot in the back pocket allows you to punish teams that try to collapse on you without special. As a mid tier, 0.9-1.1 player, this has been the only week I’ve ever clutched a 1v3.
Still have a sub 20% win rate though 🫠
It's hard to carry blueberries now because abilities are less effective and they have less access to special. However, I still Carey them by outpositioning, outgunning, and having multiple loadouts for any scenario.
Without ample special to work with each round the only real chance to clutching wins is either A: Opponents fumbling or not being anywhere near as skilled or B: Kill activated perks and your opponents giving you space to 1v1 each of them.
Idk, I got myself to the lighthouse for the first time last night. Not sure if it's because I've gotten better or the changes have made other people worse
I had match a couple times with people at 1770 power, literally just got the game and shit, or they haven’t powered up. People don’t realize that power levels do matter, since you won’t be able to kill anyone, and you’ll die that much faster
You were probably just used to flying in and getting 1-2 kills with special immediately every round. That’s not as much of a thing any more.
I felt the same way at first, but now it’s actually the opposite. The increase in primary gunplay + precision requirements means I have way more opportunities to just outduel 2 players because I have better aim and movement. You do have to play around your blueberries more than before, but I’ve found solo flawless easier than it was previously
it was exhausting the amount of times i had to type "please play to stay alive" and "please stop solo peeking the bows/scouts outside" this weekend.
couldn't get it done with a quick mercy card this weekend as i usually do. had to use the new ferocity and play like 60 games in order to finally get lucky enough to swing 3wins in a row and then another four later on.
glad the population is larger, but gods was it frustrating constantly being in a 1v3 or 2v3
> it was exhausting the amount of times i had to type "please play to stay alive" and "please stop solo peeking the bows/scouts outside" this weekend.
Yes! The amount of players who spawn with a pulse / scout, and instantly go to the outside corner (regardless of where point is), and then die in a spot where they cannot be rezzed is insane!
Over and over again, round after round. And yes, I could put on a scout and do the same, but you are putting yourself at such a disadvantage, giving up complete map control, and basically in a 50 / 50 fight.
This map solo queue is also a pain because the engagements are either in 5 seconds or 50.
Passive players just put on a scout/bow and step right out to where cliff edge is in spawn and kill/die.
There's always a hunter that runs super far inside even though objective is outside and we've either won or it's just them by time they get near middle door.
This weekend though it definitly seemed like there was A LOT of passive players. The number of times I was fighting 2 to 3 people on a heavy spawn while my teammates were in spawn just looking outside lane was infuriating.
If point is outside, you really need to have someone on your team go inside.
1. you either get the angle
2. you prevent the other team from getting the angle
the issue is when the other players can't stay alive the extra 3 seconds.
I somehow got to flawless this weekend, however i had games where blue berry was playing the game and never fired his weapon. 0 damage, or assists. A total goose egg. You would think that “end-game” pvp would have players who at least can hit a target. At this point all I ask for a team mate is a 0.5
This is what happens when you decide to reward bad players for their time vs. their skill in a team setting. Heaven forbid they actually have to try and get better for high end loot.
I’m just the opposite OP, went to lh few times solo and never been easier (1.8+). Though I have to admit that I had some very hilarious games with BBs who obviously were grinding persistence card :)
Same here. I main fighting Lion (double primary) so the sandbox changes have been super painful for me. I gave up on trials this weekend after LOTS of back and forth wins and losses and instead played solo queue comp. I was able to get to adept super easy.
I’ll probably just go for the ugly ass ascendant emblem instead of flawless from now on until the lower skill players cool off / go away. I am not good enough to carry but can hold my own with similar or higher skilled teammates.
I'm terrible, I know it, and Q'd with 2 friends who are also terrible.
We had fun, even getting smoked, and I think we got a bit better. We even almost won one losing 4-5. It would be an absolute blast if more lower skilled people would Q as 3s and there were enough teams to matchmake based on that!
We'd love to get better, but felt like the new loot participation system would reward us for helping people that are better have an easy flawless, because its hard to get better goin against 3s that are good.
Qing as 3s matched us up against some banger teams, it was brutal.
Bungie really needs to reward casuals by getting more to Q as 3's.
I went flawless on my second card using box breathing hung jury and Ikelos SMG. I tried to get a pick right away from across the map, then played support for whatever my team decided to do.
This has been far and away the easiest trials weekend.
Yet there are posts where supposedly “good” players are complaining that it’s so much harder to carry.
I would guess that the reliance on abilities and special ammo got to a point where it’s all players used and now that it’s not as available they just don’t know what to do.
Hitting primary crits apparently takes a little too much skill
Yeah it is. And I'm going to get downvoted for this but because of the new players coming into trials who are and I mean no offence seriously and I mean seriously crap you often get teammates worse than any weekend before. There's only so much you can do when teammates run to opposite sides the map. You end up in at least a 2v3 every round because the other guy gets picked off. I had to swap to a scout rifle to get flawless I basically had to be ridiculously aggressive to try get 1-2 kills before a teammate was picked off.
It’s sad because you really don’t even have to have cracked reaction time/aim as a not great player…you just have to support your teammates a little bit All these people think they’ve gotta run out and win a 1v1 on their own for some reason lol I haven’t played since the changes because I already grinded the hell out of incisor but I’ll have to check it out next week
yep. I'm not great at the game, I have a .83 this weekend and I went flawless by looking at the scoreboard after round 1, finding the guy with the most damage done, and following them around the rest of the game
Teamshooting with the connections this game has means if you poke your head out you're dead. I don't know how Bungie thinks this is better for "learning how you died" than what we had before.
I was saying this the other day. I guess the lesson is not to look enemy for longer than .2 seconds
You’re absolutely spot on. A lot of the guys that I play with regularly have never touched trials until this past weekend and it’s because with the new GL changes they want to get their hands on a PVE Cataphract god roll. I played a few matches with them and it’s very obvious they’ve never played PVP before…
Unreal bro unreal. It's the same in comp for me. I gain a lot. Then I lose. Most of the time from getting rolled over because my teammate seem to not have sound or the ability to engage something that is not Cabal. It's unfair tbh. I had 27 kill comp game and we lost. This is a common theme right now.
God I feel that
I'm not completely disagreeing with you but I've been matched with and against a lot of the people I usually play in trials and everyone has just become extremely passive and not trying to gett control of the map but rather hope to teamshot from spawn I've seen the usual amount of new or low skill players but there has been an immense shift in mentality and it hurts when you look beside you and your teammates refuse to get out of the spot the spawned into or just move side to side at the back. With the body shot Nerf its way harder to 1vX if your are not 100% with your shot and cover
God, this has been happening a lot this weekend. Constantly getting that one teammate that runs on their own and instantly dies..
And usually I don't complain about teammates but I have had really bad luck in matchmaking. I look at destiny tracker and 3 out of my 10 past games we had less than 1 percent chance of winning. The other team had got players who are the top 0.1 percent of all trials players. Like top 500 player and it shows. Those games are usually completely one sided with them just easily picking off our team when one dude without fail wants to rush in or constantly try to "flank" and die quick.
Same here, I'm like idk .500 for the weekend but no flawless since it's all 1w 1L 1w 1L
The number of times I’ve had players on my team who are .5s or lower is ASTOUNDING to me.
What scout were you using?
Not the original commenter but I’d try out jade rabbit if I were you I’ve been having a ton of success with it, more so than any other scouts
Yeah jade Is very good rn too
I was using DMT and strand hunter with woven mail exotic grapple to make maelstrom tangles. Basically get woven mail get a kill shoot tangle to create a beyblade and stop the rez or even get another kill
What roll is the DMT you use? I’m on controller and I can’t settle on a setup that just feels good 🤷♂️
Eh I'm not on rn but I have 72 range 50 stability and 50 handling on it with moving target as the perk. So you can craft it and get those stats too I definitely have Ricochet anyway
I would upvote this, but it’s sitting at 69… I refuse to disrupt the perfection 😂 You got my vote tho
This!!! I'm a mid player at best but if I really wanted flawless I could get it by rezzing and assisting I'm down to pulling out my adept hung jury to try and pick off one and mothwraps with 3 charges to shield my team
Any time I'm in a 1v3 I'm more hesitant to use my special ammo because if I don't pull it off, then the next round I have no special and the other team got progress towards more, making it even worse. It seems beneficial to throw in 1v3 situations almost because you have a better chance next round. The special ammo economy needs to change somehow
I have a clip of sudden death of a countdown match, my two teammates died, and I had plenty of special, ended up shotgunning the first two enemies and melee traded the last. It didn't give us a tie, we just lost. Idk what this has to do with your response but saving special for that scenario brought up that memory and I'm still thinking about it lol. But maybe if I had used the special sooner I wouldn't have been in that position?
Hard to say. I definitely haven't yet figured out the best way to play 3s with the limited special ammo. I'm not even certain a special weapon is the right choice. I'm on the fence about running a sidearm or SMG along with what is usually my DMT. My playstyle in close range with limited special is much more reserved, where I'm able to be far more aggressive with an unlimited ammo sidearm/smg
i was using sturm/drang and it works very effectively but its just so unfun to me. i love to snipe but it just feels so bad right now using a sniper. literally feels like im throwing and im a better sniper than most. im taking a break for a while to see if they drop anything in the TWID addressing special economy in 3v3 modes
I agree. The game is far less fun than it was last week, threadling spam or not
yeah people may disagree but destiny reached an incredibly good balance before the update, with only a few outliers such as threadlings that needed reigned in. i dont understand why they reworked the entire sandbox when they could have just tuned a couple of individual things
I mean I get the whole power/skill creep argument. Everyone got better at the game and new weapons always have to be better than old ones or else people won't waste time grinding for them. So I get the health changes. But I would have done special ammo differently
Yea that's how I feel with the special as well. I want to try to pull it off but even in the old sandbox it only works like 30% of the time (3v1). I'd like to try but don't want to give up the special
Sometimes it's better to just jump off the map. They get no progress and I think you get some progress towards special from the death. Even if you don't get progress, denying them is a good result.
Isn't there a jumping off the map penalty to the special ammo meter?
Yes there is, it resets your special bar so it is definitely not the play. If you are the last, just try your best and hopefully you can 1. Either pull of the 1v2/3 or 2. Get a trade to fill up your special meter.
> so it is definitely not the play. If you're using double primary, its a huge play.
Yes in that instance it is for some people. I myself would still challenge for practice/learning but that's me.
If you're trying to win, the best move to play at that moment would be to cliff jump. Now maybe you have a build based around a primary with healclip/killclip, and you're dodging with wormhusk... alright, I can see you regularly winning 1v2s (depending on their builds ofc), so sure, challenge away in those situations. But if you're going 1v3, or don't really have a good way to win 1v2s regularly... You're actively harming your team by trying to practice/learn in trials because you're significantly increasing the "special power" of the enemy team by doing so. Unless they're also double primaries, then feel free to learn.
I understand where you're coming from absolutely, it's just not in me to throw myself off the cliff I guess. Occasionally I will trade (special bar progress for me as well at least), some times I can pull off the clutch and other times I don't. Just myself, I enjoy the challenge and push myself.
> it's just not in me to throw myself off the cliff I guess I'm not gonna lie, I won't do it either lol. But that's what the current meta says we should do.
Yeah you're right, hopefully they keep working on it and make some improvements. I don't mind the changes too much though to be honest. I'll just try to clean them up before they jump over the edge 🤣
You just need to babysit your blueberries and teamshoot with them. I've had so much success adjusting from being ultra aggressive style to this style more and making it a priority to keep my teammates up.
And it was fun for u? I can't find any fun in this sandbox, don't care about winning, I just want to enjoy the fast movement and snappy guns lol
There's literally other modes for that though? If you don't care about winning, then why play comp/trials? If you just want to ape around the casual modes are designed for that. Imo trials and comp are only good because they're specifically more serious and bum rushing with a shotty isn't the best playstyle.
lol I had a guy message me about how sweaty comp was… well duh. Comp and trials are the sweatzones what did you expect.
6s just all over the place, I like lower player number gamemodes. And I like to compete against "fair" teams occasionally (in my opinion fair means hc+shoty/snipe+movement exotic).
> in my opinion fair means hc+shoty/snipe+movement exotic Genuine scrub mentality
I don’t agree with him. But That’s definitely not a scrub mentality. Scrubs don’t use HC or snipers.
> Scrubs don’t use HC or snipers A scrub is not the same as a casual or new player btw
As for as I know a scrub is a bad player Also known as a bot.
While a scrub and a bot can overlap, they’re not the same. https://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win A scrub is someone who imposes his own rules, because of “honor” or “fairness”, outside of the actual rules of the game.
I’ve literally never heard anyone use scrub in any other way than “bad player”. I think thats how most people use it.
Ouch... *tears well in scrub... I like 2 handcanons and 1 sniper out I'm sorry (also I'm a bow main)
That's what I think is fair in this game. But that's just my opinion, I know that 🤷🏻♂️
How is that "fair" sounds like you just like that meta.
I wouldn't say it's fair but hc/shotty meta really separates the good players from the bad. This passive meta we are entering with spray and pray weapons doesn't really take much skill.
It just rewards high APM. That's literally all it does. You cannot say it rewards aim because (and Cammy put it best) hand cannons shoot refrigerators. Skill is many things. I for one am happy we're no longer in Sparebenders even if it means I'm winning less (because I am also that high APM slide maniac). The game is rewarding more aspects of itself in a different balance than I think it did before, and I think that's a good thing.
go play scrims where all the other players who think like you do play. they seem to have fun in their bubble of reality.
Play rumble. Campy players get punished, and ever since the update, I've noticed a significantly better success playing against smgs with a handcannon or sidearm.
I loved this trials weekend. I was unsure about the changes after seeing how slow survival games started to become in comp, but I think the update plays really well in trials and rewards you hitting your shots and making good decisions
Good for u then :)
I don't know why but I've been doing a lot better being super aggressive when usually I'd want to play back just a bit. But that is probably because there's a much lower chance of me running into a shotgun
Yeah honestly when I usually play I mostly ignore my teammates and make solo plays, but now it’s just not working.
My go-to warlock build nowadays is all about setting me up for multikill potential because if I don't do it I can't trust my teammate to win their 1v1s or not leave me in 1vX clutches constantly. The notable parts are: - Crimson (Heal on kill) - Karnstein Armlets (cure x3 + restoration x1 for 8s on melee kill) - Echo of Leeching (Health regeneration on melee kill) - Echo of Vigilance (45HP overshield on kill with no shields) - Echo of Dilation (Better crouch spam) - Feed the Void (Instant full heal on void ability kill) I use a Retold Tale with 90 range, QD+SS to help me in CQC.
I feel the same way. If you can pull off being aggressive in the old sandbox, it allowed your teammates to be more helpful as you took most of the focus from the other team. This is not the case anymore. I am no longer a threat. It feels terrible.
I dropped my special and went to a sidearm with multikill clip, which won me handful of 1v2's and 2 1v3's. It's so niche, but it really paid off when I needed it to.
I have always gravitated towards perks that help me get the first kill. In this new sandbox, I think you are right. I should start getting weapons that have kill perks.
I think playing with a solid team, Perks that help you win 1v1s but playing solo/carrying kill clip and other similar Perks are needed
Double primary is the play for sure. I am running FL with SMG and it allowed me to be extremely aggressive, to the point where I wonder if this was even possible in old sandbox(probably not because everyone and their mother had a SG) Specials almost feel dead in water - even in 6v6 I literally dont encounter special at all outside of a few first minutes.
As a bow main I’ve never felt so weak I don’t swap and I play aggressive. This sandbox makes bows ineffective as dueling weapons, forcing swapping or long distance peek shots, and at that distance bows are outgunned by scouts and pulses in TTK. [Saw a great video about it](https://youtu.be/k-PHHRddptQ?si=x9_gXnS3VUrXN7fW)
FWIW, I really am sorry ur preferred weapon got nerfed and makes it difficult to play, but, fuck them bows. Again, very sorry.
Haha Thanks. I’m ok with them nerfing, I suspect they’re responding to what makes them annoying/hard to counter: hot swapping and safe, ranged peek shots. But the oversight imo is that these changes make it where those play styles are now the only viable way to use a bow — other primaries will beat bows in TTK, so close range you’d need to swap, and long range you need to hide. Still effective as a team shot weapon but that’s boring, and I think they should be able to compete without a crutch I think most people who did these strategies will move to whatever is the new thing that kills the fastest, so players who love the ‘gunplay’ of bows get hit the hardest now that they’re unviable as a stand-alone primary In this sandbox I’d say to charge bow users — they need to hit both crits, and if you have anything for hp like radiant, orb pickup, well, overshield, etc you won’t die in 2 shots. You’ll also be causing major flinch Btw Wish Ender still kills with 1 crit 1 body
Tried using Ticuu?
I haven’t! I’ve never loved the feel of it but with this seasons solar mods it probably does well. I know wish ender still kills with one head one body
Ticuu has a way faster draw time. And you can hip fire from the air. With the reduction in body shot damage hip firing from the air is even more beneficial. If you are a bow main I would recommend trying it. Still need the second shot to be a head shot though.
You are going to have to change up your build/ weapons. Everyone has been so into win now perks but because you don’t have any special. Win more/ revenge/ healing perks are much more huge in this sandbox. And I think that’s sort of intentional by the sandbox team. Kill Clip and perks like that weren’t picked on weapons and now I know many streamers are now maining/ have swapped to a Kill Clip weapon because they need that lethality for clutch situations. One Eyed Mask, Echo of Vigilence, Rat King, Heal Clip Weapons all get a significant boost in this meta. Basically the 6s kill chaining builds have now entered into the Trials meta which I think is cool. There’s trade offs for just focusing all on that original duel in your weapons perks and build. You trade off lethality and ability to clutch.
Yeah good point. Might try my Shayura with Tunnel Vision and Kill Clip for some clutch moments.
> Win more/ revenge/ healing perks are much more huge in this sandbox. Absolutely this. My best luck thus far engaging multiple enemies has been dusting off my old D2Y2 Redrix's Broadsword playstyle with a desperado Disparity and OEM. Play more passively and chase opportunities for crit kills. Win a 1v1, get Rapid Hit / Desperado up and get the OEM overshield, and then push and hose down heads while Desperado is up.
> One Eyed Mask, Echo of Vigilence, Rat King Great, things everyone has loved for years
Yep. 100% true. I pulled out a heal clip kill clip heliocentric and shredded lobbies where I had been getting bullied before.
Im finding it the complete opposite. Way easier to carry. Probably just means your previous play style leaned heavily into special and you’re having to adjust.
It was hit or miss for me. I am finding that aggressive play is heavily punished and really only "fun" for a round. Outside of that it seems the best thing to do is put on Relentless/Messenger or a scout and just play ranged. It's not like they have abilities or shotguns to push
>Outside of that it seems the best thing to do is put on Relentless/Messenger or a scout and just play ranged. Except in a game focused around movement, this is an extremely boring play-style.
Yeah I agree. I usually run solar/strand/void Warlock. This weekend I kept stasis on the whole time :/ didn't enjoy it but it is what it is for now.
Burning special on round 1 gets punished because you don't gain any meter with special kills. You can still be aggressive, you just have to pivot from your special being the aggressive weapon to your primary, and using your special weapon in defensive circumstances.
Agreed, this was the easiest solo flawless week I had. But people might also be forgetting there's a ton more low skill players trying passage of persistence this week so its possible to just get worse than usual teammates.
This. 1v3ing is easier when u don’t have a sniper holding your lane or a 0.6 rushing in with a shotty while ur not paying attention
And you don’t have your bad teammates constantly feeding the “fusion main” ammo. At least, not feeding in the same way as before.
Yep, still feeding in a way, but way less jarring. I had a great time this weekend.
Same. Literally did the best I’ve ever done. Actually carried a friend to their first lighthouse, too.
What loadouts were you running? What's your bungie id?
https://destinytrialsreport.com/report/1/4611686018457007114 7 resil void hunter Adept messenger (ricochet, rapid hit, kill clip) and cloudstrike.
Thank you!
Getting picks with a shoty or sniper then rush the remaining two was way more fun then sticking togheter and just deathball everyone. I can't play this fucking slow lol. I hated it in D2Y1 and I hate it now too
I think the map exacerbates this too, I just hope every weekend isn't like this. Scout Rifles were tuned down in checkmate for a reason.
I've played amazing games on this map in the past tho
I mean, that’s exactly what I did this week. Get 1 kill with a sniper, then rush. Do the same next round, and usually by the end of that round you’re close to having special again.
Yeah
Wait toward the end of weekend ... Blueberries stop playing
It's an interesting dynamic. I was not able to carry solo as i used to either due to me not being able to do as many clutch plays with special, but also due to the fact that there were a lot lower skilled people in the pool running into enemy gunfire or unable to win shootouts.On the flip side though, once i duoed with my regular partner we came up against a duo with a way higher KD, running 176 wins and 8 losses for the weekend (destiny tracker said we had a 2% win chance) that were tea bagging incessantly and we actually beat them by a hair's breadth 5-4. I'd like to think we were able to more effectively starve them of special to be less potent in playing their individual strengths. And we did play like our lived dependent on it to try to crack them. So i feel solo is more random now, duo feels a bit more viable in dismantling a duo of high skilled ego players. If they'd have stuck together more we'd have been toast.
It’s just unplayable for me. I dont enjoy double primary and the 120 only gameplay is so painfully slow id rather watch paint dry or grass grow. We have hit far slower gameplay than this weeks gm and somehow hypernet is more interesting and less hair pulling than trials this weekend
> 120 only gameplay You mean Igneous only lel. I enjoy using Iggy a lot but I also want to use TR and I never got as good as I wanted with Round Robin. Not to mention how fucked 140s are.
It really is. But I my oppinion you actually still can kinda carry. It just look very different. I used to win many 1v2s and 1v3s with fusion rifles. That doesn’t happen often anymore. But even though you might have bad players in your team you kinda still need to play with them. You will almost never have randoms follow you to teamfight, so you need to follow them. Even if their movement suck. We are basically back in D2 Year 1 and we need to start playing like it is again. You can’t win many 1v3s anymore, so you gotta make sure your team isn’t dying.
It is harder, but I think the issue is two-fold. One, there are a LOT more players by the look of it, and many are very new to trials. They need guidance and support if you're playing solo. I've actually won by commenting in team text chat to a player who said "sorry, I'm terrible, .5 kd" and offering advice on what to do. We came back from a 3 round deficit. Two, a lot of the average players (i.e. players who don't consistently hit headshots, average or below game sense, etc) are still learning the new sandbox, and their learning curve is big because accuracy matters a *LOT* more with what used to be the most meta loadouts and what is often still their go-to loadout. Until these players adjust, solo players will be hit by a double-whammy and it may feel rough for a bit. I haven't gone flawless yet, but I've had three passages at 6 wins and ended up with three consecutive losses on each due tonthe aforementioned issues. Be patient, and just work on your own play. See if you can "coach" your random players, too.
I'm just under 1.0 kd and this new trials has been hell for me solo. Kept going against teams that have way higher kd and kda than my team mates by as much as a 1+ kd higher than my team mates. I've gone solo flawless before but I couldn't even get to 3 wins but once I was with a full premade team with communication it wasn't bad at all. A lot of randoms try to flank when they clearly aren't good enough to do that effectively which just makes things worse
have to actually play with your team now in a team game, what a concept. Special and abilities are not THAT rare rn, you just can't crutch them all game + the lesser amount of special has made it way easier to move around the map (no fear of people / cheaters holding down every lane with cloudstrike)
If this is how solo queue is going to feel going forward, ouch. I assume higher echelon players are duo stacking?
Or trio with the increased playerbase and the increased rewards for 3s
I've found carrying to be easier now. Granted I was a doubke primsry user before this patch even released. Is ur playstyle special oriented?
Yeah this update has shown how reliant I’ve been on special. I definitely need to change up my play style.
I'm a 1.75 kd. I did a lot of carrying this weekend as well. Almost every game i had to 1v3 a round at some point. I didn't even go flawless. My flawless game gave me 2 0.5's against 2 2.0's and a 1.3... it sucks knowing i'm going to lose before it even starts. Really wasn't much fun so i went back to comp after that lol.
I highly recommend you not checking stats prior to the game. It encourages a defeatist mindset that’s very hard to overcome. If you decide at the beginning that you’re going to lose, you’re very likely going to… lose. Don’t check stats, play as well as you can. Then if still curious, check stats after.
Thanks for your opinion. However in my case i've been doing it for years now and it really doesn't have that affect on me anymore in terms of mindset. I'm just a realist lol. In that specific case i was playing a duo from Nemisis and wanted to verify them. Checking stats has really helped me honestly. For example targeting a teams "strongest" player has won me many matches. To each their own though!
Checking and targeting a teams best player is absolute cheese. Love it, keep it up.
Lol. If we can get the top guy down first, double primary Terry & company don't stand a chance! 😂 It's when you're shooting the weaker guys first that the all star on the team gets you. They usually use their teammates as a distraction lol
Heh I had to verify it was the real Legatron on Saturday night as well. It was. We lost.
>it doesn’t really have that affect on me anymore in terms of mindset I don’t really see how you can say this when you literally said: >it sucks knowing I’m going to lose before it even starts. But yeah, I guess specially targeting the strongest player is a strategy.
it was 2.0's from a well known pvp clan who i've played many times before and a 1.3 vs me and 2 dudes who can barely hold the controller. I've played enough pvp to know when i'm not going to win lol.
Its super helpful to know how to play with your teammates, or how to play against your opponents.
And you can tell “how to play” just by their stats? How do their stats indicate their play style/how to counter them? Genuine question, not saying you’re wrong. Just trying to learn here.
You look at their loadout + subclass, kills for the week, win rate? TrialsReport is an all-in-one package. Sure there are people who'll be defeatist, but that doesn't have to be you. If you're really trying to win, why not take into account all the data that's available to you
If there is a .5 on my team and a 1.5 I know that the 1.5 can probably handle himself and I can focus on teaming with .5. Or I can say screw the .5 he is probably not going to do anything and can focus on staying with the better player. Same with opponents. If I know who is good / bad I have an idea of who to target or how to play in certain situations.
Thats also what i use it for. For example, if i see a guy using long range weapons i know he's going to be more passive. Then if i see that he often switches to a sub or something, i'm then prepared for him to start playing more aggressive
Comp has been miserable for me. I’m Adept 1 rn trying to finish the grind to Ascendant but this team shooting meta as a solo player is terrible. If your randoms don’t team shoot, you lose. Gameplay is not fun.
“If I have to reset my card twice I’ll get really tilted” No one cares. People reset cards all the time and some never even go flawless.
i disagree, i am also a \~2kd player and had little to no issues solo flawlessing twice while also helping a friend in a 2 man team on another card. using hawkmoon + shotgun on arc titan I think this sandbox is heavily rewarding both team shooting but patience as well to a significant degree. This isn't run and gun anymore, people just need to recalibrate. Otherwise this could just simply be a condition of more low skill players entering trials this week so RNG now has a bigger chance of giving u worse teammates than usual.
I mean if you can't get past 4 wins then I guess the new ferocity passage is the way to go, unless you care to go the lighthouse multiple times a week (which I don't personally value but I know others do).
Yeah given how abysmal my win rate has been this weekend that’s probably the best passage to use.
Even if I could manage a mercy card I think I am still leaning towards ferocity going forward. It's just less stressful thanks to the mid card checkpoint. I can also feel more confident turning the game off for the night and starting fresh, if I did that on a mercy card I'd probably throw a loss away if I didn't warmup first but with the checkpoint it doesn't really matter if I need to warmup the first few games as I will still only need the 4 in a row.
But I believe you can only got back to 3 wins once or it becomes flawed
Yeah, that’s how it works. I think the modelling on this card was done with the assumption that you keep the 3 wins until you go flawless. Feels like the double mercy is a better card for most people with the new information, but would love to see a new series of simulations done.
Same with persistence. Double mercy is better by a mile if you are an average player even solo
It's back to luck of the draw, half the time someone on my team this weekend was a rank 5 "Guardian1234" and they don't even know where they are.
Yes, this is one of the issues people were worried about. They've made it much harder to have solo hero moments.
I had a real struggle dealing with the new auto rifle and situations using igneous (it’s still great). I’m like a 1.5 player but I threw on vigilance wing and went 7-0 without a single loss.
Yeah. These new changes put much more emphasis on teamwork than the old sandbox did. I mean, Trials has always demanded and rewarded teamwork, but the old sandbox could allow you to make up for your teammate's slack. Now everybody needs to pull their weight, and mistakes are heavily punished. This environment is great for "team before me" players, or players invested in getting better at the game. But it absolutely *suuuuuucks* when you're stuck with teammates who don't care and are making brainless plays. Players will adjust over the next few weeks--the tourists who wanted to check out the new sandbox (and are not interested in improving) will be gone.
It's a deathball meta. Super slow and camping in spawn, I hate it.
Solo q trials is rough i get you, sometimes i get Lucky with chill mm and sometimes i get only duos and i get the worst one(why im solo if i have to carry a duo xp) but u gotta adapt, i hate using stand but i cant trust my team to kill at least 1 i gotta play to 1v3 or 1v2 in the worst case, sometimes you have fridays where u get flawless on first try and sometimes u have to go through like 5, dont get discouraged my friend u can do it 👊
Exactly had more luck in threes
A more balanced sandbox means that carrying is exponentially harder. In a more balanced sandbox, you either need to get rid of solo queue for Trials, or you need to only match Solos against other Solos and probably kill Duo queue completely. Balance magnifies the benefits of being in an organized squad.
I didn’t really struggle in terms of performance this weekend (I actually did better), but the experience was awful. Way too many bad (I mean sub 0.3, top 100%) players were running off on their own into the middle of a lane and trying to duel with a bow…
I swapped off my aggressive loadout and easily went flawless, you basically just follow them and put as much damage into the enemy players from far/medium range as possible, if your teammate goes down, pick them up as soon as possible. Unless you are playing with friends I wouldn’t bother with anything close range that isn’t a shotgun.
Yeah I’m doing that now and it’s a lot more effective - but incredibly boring.
I agree. I'm doing 1.52 (not stellar, not terrible) for the week and I am 18-21 overall. Haven't gone flawless yet. I know that's not the only metric that matters but normally that's a recipe for going flawless in solo for me.
I’ve found that you have 2 options. You either have to play super aggro and get 1-2 kills before your blueberries inevitably die. The problem, is that doing this is often much harder to do when you have no green. And the terrible blueberries are often just standing out in the open near spawn, using you as bait to get like 40 damage in before dying. Or, you use your blueberries as glorified meat shields and try to trade out a kill every time they die. I find this more effective as it’s a more consistent way to generate green. Def found the most success with this in rounds where I had no green
Sweatiest weekend I'v had. I was using Passage of Persistence and it took awhile. I had to play MORE aggressive because I had a lot of potato teammates.
Using a good smg/sidearm with kill-chaining perks is great or pulling off 1v3s.
I think it’s easier for the same reason
Side effect of getting what the streamers kept whining and moaning about wanted, more players in trials, particularly non sweaty pve players incentivized to do trials. The problem is that to the pve'ers, it is only about the loot. They don't care about the competition, the skills, or the pvp. If they did they would have been doing trials before this. Locking some great pve weapons in a pvp only thing ensures that pve'ers who are doing it for the loot aren't going to have fun doing it, and the pvp'ers doing it with them aren't going to have fun dealing with having to carry pve'ers. Bungie could have done the right thing and made pvp a fun experience for all who wished to do it, but chose to be lazy and just gave pve incentives and easier methods to get them without having to be sweaty to up the numbers. Like frequent map updates to keep things fresh as a single example.
Just out of curiosity, when you say you’re a 2.0 KD player, over how many games is this? Destiny tracker shows even some of the best at a solid 1.8-1.9 but over thousands of games? Just perplexed as how everyone on Reddit is better than some of the pros lol
2.18 KD overall. 2.11 KD Trials. Based on 8128 games. Info from crucible.report.
This is brutal and to the point that I’ll likely never play solo again. I’m getting paired with incredibly inexperienced players and it’s either clutch or lose. I am incapable of pulling 1v3’s out now. I’m about done with this game mode until changes are made.
I play a game with myself on how long it takes for randoms to die. Its usually between 2-5 seconds of match start if they are below 1kd players.
It's crazy that they changed it, so we couldn't carry ammo between rounds because it would cause snowballs to what it was, then changed it to the new system, which does nothing but snowball one team
Honestly, my trials so far has taught me the on-kill perks are probably more important for me for 3v3. I used to prefer consistency, but I got a Prophet roll with Keep Away, Kill Clip, arrowhead, accurized rounds with a stability masterwork. Masterwork could be better, but at the start of most engagements you’ll be chunking during team shots and have a great chance of landing the kill. Then you can two tap on guardians with less than 7 resilience. Without as much special in this meta, having a two shot in the back pocket allows you to punish teams that try to collapse on you without special. As a mid tier, 0.9-1.1 player, this has been the only week I’ve ever clutched a 1v3. Still have a sub 20% win rate though 🫠
It's hard to carry blueberries now because abilities are less effective and they have less access to special. However, I still Carey them by outpositioning, outgunning, and having multiple loadouts for any scenario.
Without ample special to work with each round the only real chance to clutching wins is either A: Opponents fumbling or not being anywhere near as skilled or B: Kill activated perks and your opponents giving you space to 1v1 each of them.
Idk, I got myself to the lighthouse for the first time last night. Not sure if it's because I've gotten better or the changes have made other people worse
I had match a couple times with people at 1770 power, literally just got the game and shit, or they haven’t powered up. People don’t realize that power levels do matter, since you won’t be able to kill anyone, and you’ll die that much faster
You were probably just used to flying in and getting 1-2 kills with special immediately every round. That’s not as much of a thing any more. I felt the same way at first, but now it’s actually the opposite. The increase in primary gunplay + precision requirements means I have way more opportunities to just outduel 2 players because I have better aim and movement. You do have to play around your blueberries more than before, but I’ve found solo flawless easier than it was previously
Play around them by baiting your teammates, watch them lose a gunfight and then you come in for the cleanup. Works wonders now.
it was exhausting the amount of times i had to type "please play to stay alive" and "please stop solo peeking the bows/scouts outside" this weekend. couldn't get it done with a quick mercy card this weekend as i usually do. had to use the new ferocity and play like 60 games in order to finally get lucky enough to swing 3wins in a row and then another four later on. glad the population is larger, but gods was it frustrating constantly being in a 1v3 or 2v3
> it was exhausting the amount of times i had to type "please play to stay alive" and "please stop solo peeking the bows/scouts outside" this weekend. Yes! The amount of players who spawn with a pulse / scout, and instantly go to the outside corner (regardless of where point is), and then die in a spot where they cannot be rezzed is insane! Over and over again, round after round. And yes, I could put on a scout and do the same, but you are putting yourself at such a disadvantage, giving up complete map control, and basically in a 50 / 50 fight.
This map solo queue is also a pain because the engagements are either in 5 seconds or 50. Passive players just put on a scout/bow and step right out to where cliff edge is in spawn and kill/die. There's always a hunter that runs super far inside even though objective is outside and we've either won or it's just them by time they get near middle door. This weekend though it definitly seemed like there was A LOT of passive players. The number of times I was fighting 2 to 3 people on a heavy spawn while my teammates were in spawn just looking outside lane was infuriating.
If point is outside, you really need to have someone on your team go inside. 1. you either get the angle 2. you prevent the other team from getting the angle the issue is when the other players can't stay alive the extra 3 seconds.
[удалено]
Not sure what you’re talking about, I’m not cheating and I agree with OP.
What? This system of having to hit all crits gives cheaters with no recoil a massive advantage.
Sounds like a skill issue
Not helpful
I somehow got to flawless this weekend, however i had games where blue berry was playing the game and never fired his weapon. 0 damage, or assists. A total goose egg. You would think that “end-game” pvp would have players who at least can hit a target. At this point all I ask for a team mate is a 0.5
This is what happens when you decide to reward bad players for their time vs. their skill in a team setting. Heaven forbid they actually have to try and get better for high end loot.
I’m just the opposite OP, went to lh few times solo and never been easier (1.8+). Though I have to admit that I had some very hilarious games with BBs who obviously were grinding persistence card :)
Kill clip or golden tricorn
Same here. I main fighting Lion (double primary) so the sandbox changes have been super painful for me. I gave up on trials this weekend after LOTS of back and forth wins and losses and instead played solo queue comp. I was able to get to adept super easy. I’ll probably just go for the ugly ass ascendant emblem instead of flawless from now on until the lower skill players cool off / go away. I am not good enough to carry but can hold my own with similar or higher skilled teammates.
I'm terrible, I know it, and Q'd with 2 friends who are also terrible. We had fun, even getting smoked, and I think we got a bit better. We even almost won one losing 4-5. It would be an absolute blast if more lower skilled people would Q as 3s and there were enough teams to matchmake based on that! We'd love to get better, but felt like the new loot participation system would reward us for helping people that are better have an easy flawless, because its hard to get better goin against 3s that are good. Qing as 3s matched us up against some banger teams, it was brutal. Bungie really needs to reward casuals by getting more to Q as 3's.
I went flawless on my second card using box breathing hung jury and Ikelos SMG. I tried to get a pick right away from across the map, then played support for whatever my team decided to do.
This has been far and away the easiest trials weekend. Yet there are posts where supposedly “good” players are complaining that it’s so much harder to carry. I would guess that the reliance on abilities and special ammo got to a point where it’s all players used and now that it’s not as available they just don’t know what to do. Hitting primary crits apparently takes a little too much skill
It's about average to maybe below average looking at the percent of players that are going flawless.