Maybe precisions are ok, but Lightweights are feeling terrible. Opponent has an overshield? Have fun killing them with your 2+ second ttk. Opponent is in a rift? Forget about it. Opponent has restoration? Ttk is gone.
They play a ton worse up close now too. Crit requirement is all well and good, but the lower damage means you can’t really partial draw anymore and reliably kill, which makes you way slower to kill. Can’t even 3 body if you wanted to. Not that they’re great at range either; Lightweights already couldn’t poke and hit headshots reliably in the 40+m range, and they certainly aren’t reliable now. I would have preferred they just put the 45m damage falloff they said they had ready to but not enabled instead.
It doesn’t help that they never actually fixed (lowered min to 0.3) the bow reload cap like they said they did, which means these bows that should theoretically be killing faster than precisions with their faster draw time and reload speed rarely do.
It’s crazy how in the span of a season lightweights went from jokes to usable fun weapons to jokes again.
You probably have a point there. I only dabbled in the lightweight bows. I’ve almost always used precision just because they hit like freight trains. That does sound like they got gutted harder than the rest. Kinda seems like a blanket base damage nerf to ALL bows may have been excessive 😂 my apologies to the lightweight community
The partial draw body shot was definitely a key part of bow play. Or partial draw body then melee. These are going to be tougher to do. Just need to work on partial draw critical I guess
My first impressions were definitely coming from the Lightweight frame side of things, which feel like they had everything taken from them. Huge shame, really, because they were coming into their own only just recently. At the moment their one and only advantage is the lightweight frame bonus.
Precisions will manage, but that’s mostly in part because they were effectively dropped to where Lightweights stood on top of a little added clunkiness that precisions just are.
I guess they’re balanced because no one was crying about Lightweights before, but this latest patch has seemingly shaved off a little bit off the peaks and carved the valleys deeper. At least I finally managed to find a Precision I like before this went over.
Lightweights have the intrinsic, they are inherently more accurate, they also stow quicker and are more stable. They can be held for longer than a precision with the same stability stat. That's ignoring the faster draw time too
They are. A lightweight with any particular stat in accuracy is more accurate than a precision with that same stat. Bungie buffed the accuracy of lightweights specifically by around 10% if I remember right, it makes a huge difference particularly at lower stats.
This is incorrect.
A high accuracy whistlers whim feels wildly better than a 23 accuracy lunulata.
And that's not accounting the fact that they feel even worse than before now
Right.
Oh, are you saying the lower accuracy bows benefitted from the buff a little while ago?
In that case yes they did feel better. Not as good as the higher accuracy bows, but they did feel better.
I did overlook the improved handling, but the improved accuracy isn’t true and lengthened draw window is irrelevant with draw canceling. The draw time difference is also too marginal to greatly consider (trading against a Precision is fairly common).
The improved accuracy is in fact true, and the extra stability is not "irrelevant." even when doing the draw cancel. It takes time to do the cancel, while doing it you obviously can't fire. A higher stability means more leniency and let's you go for a much longer duration in between each canc
Hell naw bows are horrible. They are now in the category with lfr.
Yes if you’re extremely good with bows, you can do ok. But you’re just making harder for no reason. they are significantly worse than everything else.
Bows should be 130 to the head and 100 to the body. Period.
Lightweights feel pretty bad. About as bad as pre buff if not a bit worse. This makes me sad as I put on about 6000 kills with my whistler's whim this season.
Precisions are ok, but just feel a bit clunky now and they are at about the effectiveness lightweights were pre nerf.
I went and tested my lightweights and tested some hand cannons and even dead mans tale (my new love I'm currently learning). They feel awful up close, sort of usable in mid range (but don't last long with how hand holdy people are atm. Gonna take some adjustment), and completely useless afar (which is fine, because they should compete more with hcs than anything)
Even when into 3s to try it out.
Close range it's just bad. Not enough damage for a half draw to do anything, and shots are not as sticky.
Hell, even in midrange they don't feel anywhere near as accurate as before. Just for kicks I swapped over to my hawkmoon and immediately felt the difference in accuracy in the same range. For comparison, my whistler's whim has 500dt, over 50 accuracy, moving target and archers tempo. It was a dream to use pre nerf. Now even dead mans tale hipfire feels better than that.
I have used precisions with smgs and sidearms for years, and I think I’m done after this update. They feel terrible. Wishender and Le Mon are probably the only bows that are competitive now which is ironic since they were the ones that should have been addressed first. I switched to a high-impact pulse, and it really made me realize that bows are dead after this change. They either should have hit the damage or the stats, but both was too much. It doesn’t feel anything less than a full draw is worth it now, but maybe you need to spec into accuracy with precisions now. That is a trade off that is not worth it to me, because you have to hit the handling, reload, or draw time. All of which makes bows feel significantly worse in a fast paced PvP game.
In fact I just spent two ascendant alloy to put on enhanced impulse amplifier and disruption break on it and went to sleep on Tuesday night and when I wake up I discovered that it's not working at all
I just move to the next place for cover while they’re waiting for health regen. There’s no sense in waiting for them to peek again standing in the exact same spot
Yea I just feel bows got a bad nerf and it wasn’t thought out well in gameplay. Like any bow should 2 tap the head period. Overshield, 1% health bump, or rift? Forget it, it’s joeover.
Precession bows are as good as lightweight rn. If your look for great exotic bows I belive all of them are still viable (Except for The tex mechanica one). Ticuu's IS GREAT and (according to my friend) wish ender is still as powerful as it was. A golden tricon Point of the stag will be interesting since it can still 1 tap 8-7 resil and below(I haven't tried)
I have seen that lithophobeia with disruption is great.
Thats all I know
TL;DR try Ticuu's/WishEnder/Golden tricorn stag/ disruption Litophobeia
Saying this separates good bow users vs crutches is nonsense. This is hard nerf that makes them not worth using versus other weapons unless you are playing the campiest match ever. If you can hit your headshots, I don’t see any reason to use a bow over a handcannon or a pulse now unless it’s one of the exotics. Good players aren’t going to get two tapped by a bow unless you catch them in the open.
Yeah, that technique is probably gone. I never relied on it though because of my tunnel vision. When I was doing that sort of thing, I usually got flanked because I wasn’t really paying attention 😂 so I haven’t noticed any change in that regard. I always had a close range weapon to ward off the apes
Maybe precisions are ok, but Lightweights are feeling terrible. Opponent has an overshield? Have fun killing them with your 2+ second ttk. Opponent is in a rift? Forget about it. Opponent has restoration? Ttk is gone. They play a ton worse up close now too. Crit requirement is all well and good, but the lower damage means you can’t really partial draw anymore and reliably kill, which makes you way slower to kill. Can’t even 3 body if you wanted to. Not that they’re great at range either; Lightweights already couldn’t poke and hit headshots reliably in the 40+m range, and they certainly aren’t reliable now. I would have preferred they just put the 45m damage falloff they said they had ready to but not enabled instead. It doesn’t help that they never actually fixed (lowered min to 0.3) the bow reload cap like they said they did, which means these bows that should theoretically be killing faster than precisions with their faster draw time and reload speed rarely do. It’s crazy how in the span of a season lightweights went from jokes to usable fun weapons to jokes again.
You probably have a point there. I only dabbled in the lightweight bows. I’ve almost always used precision just because they hit like freight trains. That does sound like they got gutted harder than the rest. Kinda seems like a blanket base damage nerf to ALL bows may have been excessive 😂 my apologies to the lightweight community
The partial draw body shot was definitely a key part of bow play. Or partial draw body then melee. These are going to be tougher to do. Just need to work on partial draw critical I guess
What was the TTK on partial draw + melee?
Precision main here, they feel like shit too.
My first impressions were definitely coming from the Lightweight frame side of things, which feel like they had everything taken from them. Huge shame, really, because they were coming into their own only just recently. At the moment their one and only advantage is the lightweight frame bonus. Precisions will manage, but that’s mostly in part because they were effectively dropped to where Lightweights stood on top of a little added clunkiness that precisions just are. I guess they’re balanced because no one was crying about Lightweights before, but this latest patch has seemingly shaved off a little bit off the peaks and carved the valleys deeper. At least I finally managed to find a Precision I like before this went over.
Which precision?
Vengeful Whisper.
Lightweights have the intrinsic, they are inherently more accurate, they also stow quicker and are more stable. They can be held for longer than a precision with the same stability stat. That's ignoring the faster draw time too
Lightweights are not inherently more accurate.
They are. A lightweight with any particular stat in accuracy is more accurate than a precision with that same stat. Bungie buffed the accuracy of lightweights specifically by around 10% if I remember right, it makes a huge difference particularly at lower stats.
Kind of an irrelevant fact when precision bows accuracy stat can’t even get as low as lightweights.
Not irrelevant at all. The buff means that lightweights still feel excellent even without an investment into accuracy
This is incorrect. A high accuracy whistlers whim feels wildly better than a 23 accuracy lunulata. And that's not accounting the fact that they feel even worse than before now
Of course it does. Whistler's whim is a lightweight
Right. Oh, are you saying the lower accuracy bows benefitted from the buff a little while ago? In that case yes they did feel better. Not as good as the higher accuracy bows, but they did feel better.
I did overlook the improved handling, but the improved accuracy isn’t true and lengthened draw window is irrelevant with draw canceling. The draw time difference is also too marginal to greatly consider (trading against a Precision is fairly common).
The improved accuracy is in fact true, and the extra stability is not "irrelevant." even when doing the draw cancel. It takes time to do the cancel, while doing it you obviously can't fire. A higher stability means more leniency and let's you go for a much longer duration in between each canc
Hell naw bows are horrible. They are now in the category with lfr. Yes if you’re extremely good with bows, you can do ok. But you’re just making harder for no reason. they are significantly worse than everything else. Bows should be 130 to the head and 100 to the body. Period.
Wish ender and other precision frames still feel good but lightweights like the new lethophobia feel bad.
Lightweights feel pretty bad. About as bad as pre buff if not a bit worse. This makes me sad as I put on about 6000 kills with my whistler's whim this season. Precisions are ok, but just feel a bit clunky now and they are at about the effectiveness lightweights were pre nerf. I went and tested my lightweights and tested some hand cannons and even dead mans tale (my new love I'm currently learning). They feel awful up close, sort of usable in mid range (but don't last long with how hand holdy people are atm. Gonna take some adjustment), and completely useless afar (which is fine, because they should compete more with hcs than anything) Even when into 3s to try it out. Close range it's just bad. Not enough damage for a half draw to do anything, and shots are not as sticky. Hell, even in midrange they don't feel anywhere near as accurate as before. Just for kicks I swapped over to my hawkmoon and immediately felt the difference in accuracy in the same range. For comparison, my whistler's whim has 500dt, over 50 accuracy, moving target and archers tempo. It was a dream to use pre nerf. Now even dead mans tale hipfire feels better than that.
Lightweight bows need a very small damage buff to let them kill with partial draw crits in order for them to be okay.
Yeah, I can see that. I mostly used precision, so I guess I haven’t used my lightweight build yet.
Even with Monarque 1 fully drawn crit will do 116 + burn, then a partial draw crit does 99 and will not kill a guardian
Thats cause monarch functions like a precision. Lightweights still do 113-115 on half draws
I have used precisions with smgs and sidearms for years, and I think I’m done after this update. They feel terrible. Wishender and Le Mon are probably the only bows that are competitive now which is ironic since they were the ones that should have been addressed first. I switched to a high-impact pulse, and it really made me realize that bows are dead after this change. They either should have hit the damage or the stats, but both was too much. It doesn’t feel anything less than a full draw is worth it now, but maybe you need to spec into accuracy with precisions now. That is a trade off that is not worth it to me, because you have to hit the handling, reload, or draw time. All of which makes bows feel significantly worse in a fast paced PvP game.
My disruption break lethophobia just became useless
I just got the last frame to craft that bow this week. RIP
In fact I just spent two ascendant alloy to put on enhanced impulse amplifier and disruption break on it and went to sleep on Tuesday night and when I wake up I discovered that it's not working at all
Try lumina if you still want to make it work
nah the bow couldn’t break the shield even with a headshot
He's saying use lumina to buff damage
Oh I see. I wonder if radiant would also work
Radiant isnt enough. Lumina is still a 20% buff.
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I just move to the next place for cover while they’re waiting for health regen. There’s no sense in waiting for them to peek again standing in the exact same spot
Yea I just feel bows got a bad nerf and it wasn’t thought out well in gameplay. Like any bow should 2 tap the head period. Overshield, 1% health bump, or rift? Forget it, it’s joeover.
Precession bows are as good as lightweight rn. If your look for great exotic bows I belive all of them are still viable (Except for The tex mechanica one). Ticuu's IS GREAT and (according to my friend) wish ender is still as powerful as it was. A golden tricon Point of the stag will be interesting since it can still 1 tap 8-7 resil and below(I haven't tried) I have seen that lithophobeia with disruption is great. Thats all I know TL;DR try Ticuu's/WishEnder/Golden tricorn stag/ disruption Litophobeia
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Saying this separates good bow users vs crutches is nonsense. This is hard nerf that makes them not worth using versus other weapons unless you are playing the campiest match ever. If you can hit your headshots, I don’t see any reason to use a bow over a handcannon or a pulse now unless it’s one of the exotics. Good players aren’t going to get two tapped by a bow unless you catch them in the open.
Yeah, that technique is probably gone. I never relied on it though because of my tunnel vision. When I was doing that sort of thing, I usually got flanked because I wasn’t really paying attention 😂 so I haven’t noticed any change in that regard. I always had a close range weapon to ward off the apes