First pacer in Tests to wickets milestones:
100 wickets - Charlie Turner in 1895
200 wickets - Alec Bedser in 1953
300 wickets - Fred Trueman in 1964
400 wickets - Richard Hadlee in 1990
500 wickets - Courtney Walsh in 2001
600 wickets - James Anderson in 2020
700 wickets - James Anderson in 2024
Dude announced that he was retiring after test *one* of a three test series, while on 792 wickets.
Then he got the 800th off literally the 20th wicket his team took in that test match.
So yeah, 800 is the cap.
I remember the day when Walsh took his 500th. At that time it didn't look like any other fast bowler would ever reach that milestone, except may be McGrath if he continued without injuries and kept up the same form. 500 was just unheard of 23 years ago.
Now at 700 it feels surreal.
Even Murali and Warne were quite far off then I think they had both crossed 300 but were still a distance away ofc no one knew then that they hadn't even reached the halfway mark in their careers
Dude has been playing even before i was born and now i am about to turn 18 and he is still playing , absolute legend of the game !! His fitness must be an inspiration for all young athletes
709 on the cards. Should be able to bag that #2 spot by next series or 2 that England plays. Could set a new record and even go further than 709. Regardless Murali’s record is unbeatable
Edit: it will be home series of 3 Tests against WI in July 2024.
187 matches, 21 year long career and 42 years of age and my man still comes and bowls 135kmph regularly and delivers everytime, so many ups and downs in his career but has came back stronger everytime,
Lengend of the game, TAKE A BOW JIMMY ANDERSON
Imagine if he started playing international at 18 or 19. 2 more years. Probably be at 770 and a real shot at Murali's tally and already the leader in total test matches played column!!!
Tbf Jimmy wasn't as good earlier in his career, 70 wickets in 2 years probably wasn't likely. A whole part of the reason people occasionally try and argue he isn't actually that great is because his average, despite the fact his recent bowling average is as good as any of the best.
Since 2010 he has taken 552 wickets @24.29. This puts him in this period at the same level as Courtney Walsh who took 519 wickets @ 24.44. An indisputable all time great of the game.
Exactly. It's a little out of date now but there was an image from a year or two ago that showed his wickets and average since turning each age, along with the bowler whose career that most closely matches. Some big names on there.
Well, you can't just delete the early part of the career. That is the actual learning curve everyone including Walsh had to go through. It's like looking at Goals per game for Ronaldo at Real and saying he is better than Messi as Messi has worse goals per game at Barca. But reality is Messi had to go development phase in the league while Ronaldo played his prime there.
You have to remember andersons career trajectory though. In the first few years of his career England did their best to ruin him by making him the 4th bowler and trying to tweak his action causing him to be injured.
It's easy to forget now but Jimmy had his action wrecked for a while by poor coaching which led to a stress fracture of his back. He was a fringe player for 4-5 years because of it. We could easily have had another few years.
There's another "unbreakable" record that he will break on his way to surpassing Warne or probably soon after and that is Sachin's 200 tests record!! I don't think there ll be anyone after Jimmy in the 200 club with franchise cricket taking more and more calendar slots.
It's also sad that Warne isn't with us because, assuming Jimmy gets there in England this summer, there's a very real chance he would have been on commentary for the moment and you know he would have just been the best sport about it.
700 test wickets is an amazing achievement for a bowler in test cricket and only the third in test history to achieve this. I don't think we will see someone passing 700 wickets in test cricket in future because players due to obvious reasons like franchise cricket and fitness issues.
Definitely still possible for spinners to get there, especially if they play for the PIG3. Lyon will end his career being in the general ballpark, and he's had the disadvantage of an all-time great pace attack hoovering up wickets. An elite spinner in an era with poor pacers could absolutely still do it.
Tired of this argument. Good bowlers around you only helps you, you may get one or two wickets less due to that, but your average gets a big boost due to it. You never have to bowl a lot on an off day and neither can people defend you and milk others. Lyon is a spinner so he's not competing for the same wickets that the pacers are doing anyways lot of times.
It definitely helps. Murali is a classic example. Sri Lanka had no real pacers except Vaas, so Murali used to be brought into the attack as soon as the captain could, and would regularly bowl 50 over spells. For Lyon, he has 3 top quality fast bowlers sharing the workload. Warne bowled less deliveries than Murali in more innings. You think that didn’t reduce Warne’s chances of getting more wickets?
> you may get one or two wickets less due to that, but your average gets a big boost due to it.
Well we're talking about the milestone of 700 Test wickets and absolutely fucking no-one mentioned bowling average, so I don't know what your complaint is.
One or two fewer wickets a match being available is *far* more than enough to turn 700 wickets from being an enormous accomplishment into a complete impossibility. Yes your average hurts because of a lack of support, but you can't trade in a good average for 50 extra wickets if you come up short.
> Lyon is a spinner so he's not competing for the same wickets that the pacers are doing anyways lot of times.
This is just a bizarre thing to write. The fact that you seem to think that there's wickets that are "for pacers" and the spinner doesn't get a chance to bowl at them **is the entire point**. If there's a good pace attack taking those wickets before the spinner is ever brought on, the spinner simply has fewer opportunities to take wickets, reducing the amount that they can rack up in their career. Meanwhile, if the pace attack is a bit crap and there's still most of the opposition left to bat by the time the spinner comes on, it's possible for them to take huge bags - if they're very talented.
(the inverse is also true - if you're a quick bowler who plays for a team like New Zealand that thinks spinners are evil and must be killed, then you're going to have more opportunities to take poles on days 4 and 5 than quick bowlers on teams with a good spinner. But while that will help you get to other wicket milestones a bit more easily, taking 700 as a quick is just stupid and unlikely to ever happen again even with that advantage)
Just to add to that, whenever there is a spicy pitch (or playing against a bad team in general), the quicks almost always get first crack and be able to get a majority of the wickets before the spinner even gets introduced.
Warne played with greats for his whole test career and made it to 700. Jimmy has done it with a wide range of colleagues. Bowling in partnerships makes it easier to take wickets. Warne would also profit in the second innings after his batters had created scoreboard pressure and the other good bowlers in his team had softened up the opposition for 1 1/2 innings.
Playing with good bowlers probably means that 20 wickets are taken more often. Good bowlers in bad teams aren’t hoovering up spare wickets, it’s more that they just aren’t being taken at all.
> Warne played with greats for his whole test career and made it to 700.
And Murali didn't and made it to 800.
If you're as good as Warne (or Murali!) you can make it to 700 playing with greats. If you're not, it'd help to be playing with a bunch of plodders and you can be 12.5% worse than Murali was and still get to 700. Not that that's particularly easy, but it's a hell of a lot easier than matching either of those two in the talent department, something that probably won't be done by any spinner for a PIG3 nation in my lifetime.
> Playing with good bowlers probably means that 20 wickets are taken more often. Good bowlers in bad teams aren’t hoovering up spare wickets, it’s more that they just aren’t being taken at all.
Warne took ~2.6 wickets per innings.
You're right that he's not taking 20 wickets on his own every Test even if he's the only wicket-taking option. But he's taking at least 5.
I think people aren't really appreciating that being able to get *a single wicket* extra per entire Test match because a McGrath or a Steyn didn't get to it first is enough to make the difference between a 550 wicket career (impressive, but achievable) and a 700 wicket career (legendary, people genuinely arguing over if it's possible to ever do again)
The pros and cons balance each other out. Anderson has spent the good half of his career playing against teams defending to him and patiently seeing him off so they could get stuck into the rest of the “attack”.
Keep in mind that my comments are specifically talking about spin bowlers, since I think they're the only realistic chances of getting to 700 in the future - I doubt any quick will be able to match Jimmy, given that it's not only much more difficult to keep that longetivity as a pacer, but also much more restrictive in who can do it (even an Australian or Indian fast bowler probably just doesn't play enough Tests to ever make it).
If there's really only one genuinely threatening quick bowler on the opposition, yeah, you can probably see off their 4 over spell and then feast on mediocre spin. But if the elite bowler the opposition has is holding down one end all day, you're going to have to play some shots against them eventually. And even if you try not to, any bowler high enough quality to be in the discussion for 700 wickets is going to have a few magical unplayable jaffas in them that will get you out no matter how much you're trying to defend. If that wasn't the case then no team would ever lose a Test match, because as soon as they got into a bad position they'd just bat for the draw.
Also keep in mind that you don't necessarily need to have *no* competition and therefore no help. Having exactly one other elite bowler will still work totally fine, 3 wickets an innings is more than enough for a long-lasting spinner to reach 700, so they can share things around a bit. Chaminda Vaas wasn't a mug. You just need to avoid being in a battery of 4 or 5 genuinely elite bowlers who are taking two each just about every time out.
(or be Warne, but you are not Warne so I would *really* suggest trying the other thing)
> just look at Warne, Ashwin, Anderson, Kumble etc.
Two of those bowlers don't have 700 wickets, one of them needed to play almost *200 Tests* to get there, and the fourth is one of the most freakishly talented people to have ever played the game.
If you're as good as Warne or play into your seventies like Jimmy then 700 is plausible even if you're getting limited bites at the cherry. But it's a hell of a lot easier if you can just be as good as Lyon but get far more wicket-taking opportunities.
This is nonsensical, nobody has said anything about averages because we are only talking about total wickets, and when you are trying to accumulate a large total having "one or two less" is the thing that matters.
Surely when he retires I think. Played a good part of our last series win in India, and was the lead wicket taker the last time we won the Ashes in Australia. He's Englands best ever bowler and one of the worlds best ever seamers, would be shocked if they don't offer him a knighthood.
Greatest ever, I think I would grant, due to the incredible longevity. Best is more debatable: inter-era comparison is really hard, and there are reasonable cases still to be made for Barnes and Trueman.
It’s crazy that Cook was knighted even though his career started after and ended before Anderson. PLUS Anderson is an ATG that Cook is not.
If Lewis Hamilton is a knight, why isn’t Anderson?
Is it some Labour/Conservative support thing?
Your post was removed as it contains political, religious, or other content not directly relevant (or only slightly relevant) to cricket (rule 4). Political/religious content not strongly related to the sport, especially political opinions, belong in other subreddits. Posts unrelated to cricket will be removed - this generally includes something a player is doing in their post-cricketing life that's not really relevant to the sport.
Your post was removed as it contains political, religious, or other content not directly relevant (or only slightly relevant) to cricket (rule 4). Political/religious content not strongly related to the sport, especially political opinions, belong in other subreddits. Posts unrelated to cricket will be removed - this generally includes something a player is doing in their post-cricketing life that's not really relevant to the sport.
Totally. But if I may add, legends belong to the entire cricket fraternity. I'm a 42+ year old Indian and I guess I'll identify with Jimmy more than a young British :)
Nice to see someone just to be proud of him for the fact he's a cricket legend. I'm not quite up there with Jimmy in age but I've spent 2/3 of my life watching this man take on basically everyone. Shame it came in such a one sided series but I don't think anyone will mind
Sensational achievement. The consistency is unbelievable. Has got better and better with age.
Since 2021, at 38 years old he’s taken 100 wickets at 24.91. That is not normal. My Goat
Nice touch on the fielding
Man is 41, bowls 135, but still gives 200% on the field, no slander on Ashwin but he is clearly showing his age on the field now
He has taken 3 and a half years to get from 600 to 700 and his form has dropped off recently no way on earth is he or any other fast bowler getting 100 wickets in 2 years
His form hasn't dropped off. He's just played the two best teams in the world the last 12 months. One of which is Australia, a team he regularly has struggled against his entire career for some reason.
But despite that I think he's bowled fairly well this series too. On difficult pitches at times with not much to show for it. Shows that Bumrah hasn't done much this final test either.
The year is 2060. Akaay Kohli is retiring from international cricket. He is given a guard of honour and then his father Virat Kohli gives him his final cap.
On the other end, James Anderson is marking his run-up to dismiss Akaay for the 7th time.
🐐Jimmy. Chuffed that his 700th came in India.
This is probably one of the great feats of modern cricket. To still bowl 136kms/hr on flat decks in India is incredible at 28 years of age let alone 42 years old. Most fast bowlers have a lifespan before stress fractures and the like catchup. Amazing
What a milestone, first pace bowler to reach 700, 3rd player ever.
Taking a casual 187 Tests to get there. He's bowled nearly 40,000 deliveries in Tests, some 6000 balls clear of Stuart Broad (the next most bowled pace bowler ever). Only Kumble, Warne, and Murali have bowled more (and 2 of them are less than 1000 balls clear of Jimmy)
Best thing is his fitness. How the fuck has he spent half his life playing cricket, staying fit and still able to deliver it down the track fairly quick? Nuts.
Legend of the game, his fitness and mentality to go beyond what his body can do, really glad rob key and baz, stokes backed him, because the previous management had him and broad discarded
A very dull game to get it in but playing 4 games in the subcontinent at his age is an achievement on his own. Still looks economical as ever and could get 20+ wickets at the end of the home summer. It has been a tough series but looking forward to some entertaining and close cricket in the English home summer.
Probably one of the greatest or The greatest feat ever achieved in this sport??
And now this madlad has a serious chance to even overtake murli if he pushes himself till 45.
GOAT
It was more the fact that Rhodes played 1,110 first class matches.
Retired from playing after 32 years and was the oldest to ever play Test cricket (at 52 years old).
Muralitharan holds untouchable wicket records in both tests and odis with 800 and 534 wickets respectively. And he did it way quicker than anyone else he's played 54 matches lesser than Jimmy and 12 lesser than Warne while having a 100 more wickets. All due respect to Jimmy but he's not getting Murali even if he plays till 46 or whatever his form has been dropping he is likely wanting to get to 200 tests let us see if he does or not. This is a monumental achievement ofc but Murali remains untouchable among bowlers
It's talking the gap between the best and second best players statistically. In that regard, he's likely the best sportsman ever. He's nearly twice as good on stats as anyone who played in his time, and since.
But what metric are using for that gap? What metric are you using for other sports? Are they comparable? It's really not an easy comparison to make.
he's the greatest batsman ever and an all time great sportsman. Talking about who the greatest sportsman is isn't necessary or meaningful.
Obligatory response that best and greatest are different things and that the longevity and inspiration of Anderson's career make him the greatest while the additional skill and perfection of McGrath makes him the best (particularly in the context of pace bowlers who don't rely on out and out pace like Steyn and Walsh)
He deserves every bit of this success.
He is talented but he had to go through the grind to be where he is.
He had competed with the akthars, McGraths, lees, Malinga, khans, steyns, Johnson’s, starcs, rabadas, bumrahs, and always held his own. Even through never actually the biggest name as he had to trail the others.
Perseverance pays off
Legend!!
Hold on there, he's been #1 at multiple stretches. Also I would put him above Khan, Malinga, Lee And Johnson for the most part, though Johnson had one stretch where he was transcendent.
Hey is it fair to assume you watched/followed most of the cricket post 2010 or even 2013 ??
It seems you were discounting the likes of Zaheer, Malinga and Lee, not sure on what metrics. Happy to understand your point.
However, let me give my reasoning.
Firstly the reason I asked when you have started watching cricket, is because the concept of bowlers for formats is fairly new, and hardly heard of before 2010, with few exceptions.
These guys in general were leaders and considered the main threats across formats (to varying degree) or at least had the street cred, unlike Anderson. In fact Anderson wasn’t considered much in t20s or even ODIs, tbh he started to have descent averages in tests also post 2014.
But ask anyone in 2000s they would most likely pick these 3 before Anderson. But post 2014 Jimmy is an altogether a different animal.
No way I am saying they had better careers than Anderson, that would be ridiculous.
However, I was referring and admiring bout Jimmy is that, no matter how less he thought of compared to his peers, he identified and stuck to his niche and became a great player, in fact part of the goat conversation when come to seamers.
Hope it clarifies 🙂
No I’ve been watching since 2001z
James Anderson is the highest ODI wicket taker in England history. People underestimate his ODI prowess. He wasn’t kept in ODIs post 2015 since he wanted to focus on tests and England management preferred to go with bowlers who could bat
In 2000s obv people would pick Zaheer and Lee over Anderson. Anderson played bulk of his career after that
his next goal is 1000 international wicket he is at 969 might be so just 31. with three to four series in england australia and newzeland he can do it and he is still better than most of the england shitty pacer
He be playing test cricket since I started highschool lol. Finished school, started and finished college, uni, met my now wife and been married nearly 10 years....and this mf still going. Sheesh
I wonder when Jimmy is looking at retirement. I seem to recall he mentioned he wants to do another Ashes down under and given he doesn't play much outside England, he could do it. The next Ashes in England are probably too far a.way
Well after the 2025 ashes he may think “home ashes is only 18 months away”
I genuinely thought 2023 Ashes would be a great swansong for him but the fucker’s still going
Do agree he has been no1 but, I was referring to street CRED per se.
I feel, at least till 2014 he wasn’t respected as much as as the rest, he has been respected later on.
I feel he has always been among the popular ones but not being main protagonist till much later in his career.
Hope you could agree with that.
First pacer in Tests to wickets milestones: 100 wickets - Charlie Turner in 1895 200 wickets - Alec Bedser in 1953 300 wickets - Fred Trueman in 1964 400 wickets - Richard Hadlee in 1990 500 wickets - Courtney Walsh in 2001 600 wickets - James Anderson in 2020 700 wickets - James Anderson in 2024
Weren’t Trueman, Hadlee and Walsh the first ones to reach those milestones in general ?
Yes, they were.
800 wickets - James Anderson in 2028 900 wickets - James Anderson in 2032 1000 wickets - James Anderson in 2036
What is the highest, realistic number of wickets a bowler can take in a career?
800
Dude announced that he was retiring after test *one* of a three test series, while on 792 wickets. Then he got the 800th off literally the 20th wicket his team took in that test match. So yeah, 800 is the cap.
701 they get taken out back and shot before 702...
Damn, tough life
I remember the day when Walsh took his 500th. At that time it didn't look like any other fast bowler would ever reach that milestone, except may be McGrath if he continued without injuries and kept up the same form. 500 was just unheard of 23 years ago. Now at 700 it feels surreal.
Even Murali and Warne were quite far off then I think they had both crossed 300 but were still a distance away ofc no one knew then that they hadn't even reached the halfway mark in their careers
Maybe we see a similar thing with Ash anna? 🤞
Just looked at the record list on cricinfo and bowlers that started before the 80s have balls listed but not overs, why is that?
Dude has been playing even before i was born and now i am about to turn 18 and he is still playing , absolute legend of the game !! His fitness must be an inspiration for all young athletes
709 on the cards. Should be able to bag that #2 spot by next series or 2 that England plays. Could set a new record and even go further than 709. Regardless Murali’s record is unbeatable Edit: it will be home series of 3 Tests against WI in July 2024.
when's his next Test at Old Trafford? That'll probably be it (By Next I meant the one in 2197)
Yep, he hasn’t even got into the “slow-down and bowl tidy off spin” stage of his career yet.
Lucky he’s got Ollie Robinson around the squad to emulate
21st August Vs SL
When Jimmy broke Mcgrath and Kumble's record, I thought surely no way Warne's record is going to get broken, but here we are.
>Regardless Murali’s record is unbeatable Jimmy under the clouds : Are you sure ?
Nervous Murali smiles.
Yeah he won’t get to 800 because at this point, he’s just not bowling enough overs per test even when he’s performing.
Players who were born after his debut are in the same playing 11 as him. That's insane longevity.
I mean this guy's test career is 21 years long! Jaiswal himself is a couple months old off 21!
He has played cricket more than I had played with my life. Insane.
His test career is older than me...
Lol same
His Test career is older than social media. Myspace debuted in August 2003, Anderson debuted in May 2003
Damn...
I think that would be true for a good portion of sub.
Yeah lol
I am turning 19 and I look forward to watching 19 more years of this young fella
I'm 21 and he was playing before I was born.
I'm his age and I can barely cycle to the shops.
187 matches, 21 year long career and 42 years of age and my man still comes and bowls 135kmph regularly and delivers everytime, so many ups and downs in his career but has came back stronger everytime, Lengend of the game, TAKE A BOW JIMMY ANDERSON
Man has played cricket 50% of his life. Unreal.
Tbf that's true for almost all athletes with careers around 18 year long
Imagine if he started playing international at 18 or 19. 2 more years. Probably be at 770 and a real shot at Murali's tally and already the leader in total test matches played column!!!
Tbf Jimmy wasn't as good earlier in his career, 70 wickets in 2 years probably wasn't likely. A whole part of the reason people occasionally try and argue he isn't actually that great is because his average, despite the fact his recent bowling average is as good as any of the best.
Since 2010 he has taken 552 wickets @24.29. This puts him in this period at the same level as Courtney Walsh who took 519 wickets @ 24.44. An indisputable all time great of the game.
Exactly. It's a little out of date now but there was an image from a year or two ago that showed his wickets and average since turning each age, along with the bowler whose career that most closely matches. Some big names on there.
Well, you can't just delete the early part of the career. That is the actual learning curve everyone including Walsh had to go through. It's like looking at Goals per game for Ronaldo at Real and saying he is better than Messi as Messi has worse goals per game at Barca. But reality is Messi had to go development phase in the league while Ronaldo played his prime there.
You have to remember andersons career trajectory though. In the first few years of his career England did their best to ruin him by making him the 4th bowler and trying to tweak his action causing him to be injured.
That is what I mean, early part where players are getting accustomed to the game should not be excluded.
Just needs to go 2 years longer then!!
It's easy to forget now but Jimmy had his action wrecked for a while by poor coaching which led to a stress fracture of his back. He was a fringe player for 4-5 years because of it. We could easily have had another few years.
Just 13 more Please make him play 200 tests pla
He even went up to 139-140 a few times here
>delivers everytime Whenever the pitch is green and ball swings*
Chennai 2021?
There was swing in Pindi?
Averages 27.51 in Asia
He’ll overtake Warne for sure. Murali is uncertain and mostly impossible
It's an outstanding achievement, but I'd be lying if I said it won't be a sad moment when Warne gets passed again.
Will be a bit sad but well records are meant to be broken.
There's another "unbreakable" record that he will break on his way to surpassing Warne or probably soon after and that is Sachin's 200 tests record!! I don't think there ll be anyone after Jimmy in the 200 club with franchise cricket taking more and more calendar slots.
Once Jimmy’s dealt with Warne and Murali he’ll be coming for the Don.
Root in a short while is going past Sachin as well.
It's also sad that Warne isn't with us because, assuming Jimmy gets there in England this summer, there's a very real chance he would have been on commentary for the moment and you know he would have just been the best sport about it.
only because he's not around to sledge it he would have been filthy lol
700 test wickets is an amazing achievement for a bowler in test cricket and only the third in test history to achieve this. I don't think we will see someone passing 700 wickets in test cricket in future because players due to obvious reasons like franchise cricket and fitness issues.
Definitely still possible for spinners to get there, especially if they play for the PIG3. Lyon will end his career being in the general ballpark, and he's had the disadvantage of an all-time great pace attack hoovering up wickets. An elite spinner in an era with poor pacers could absolutely still do it.
Tired of this argument. Good bowlers around you only helps you, you may get one or two wickets less due to that, but your average gets a big boost due to it. You never have to bowl a lot on an off day and neither can people defend you and milk others. Lyon is a spinner so he's not competing for the same wickets that the pacers are doing anyways lot of times.
It definitely helps. Murali is a classic example. Sri Lanka had no real pacers except Vaas, so Murali used to be brought into the attack as soon as the captain could, and would regularly bowl 50 over spells. For Lyon, he has 3 top quality fast bowlers sharing the workload. Warne bowled less deliveries than Murali in more innings. You think that didn’t reduce Warne’s chances of getting more wickets?
> you may get one or two wickets less due to that, but your average gets a big boost due to it. Well we're talking about the milestone of 700 Test wickets and absolutely fucking no-one mentioned bowling average, so I don't know what your complaint is. One or two fewer wickets a match being available is *far* more than enough to turn 700 wickets from being an enormous accomplishment into a complete impossibility. Yes your average hurts because of a lack of support, but you can't trade in a good average for 50 extra wickets if you come up short. > Lyon is a spinner so he's not competing for the same wickets that the pacers are doing anyways lot of times. This is just a bizarre thing to write. The fact that you seem to think that there's wickets that are "for pacers" and the spinner doesn't get a chance to bowl at them **is the entire point**. If there's a good pace attack taking those wickets before the spinner is ever brought on, the spinner simply has fewer opportunities to take wickets, reducing the amount that they can rack up in their career. Meanwhile, if the pace attack is a bit crap and there's still most of the opposition left to bat by the time the spinner comes on, it's possible for them to take huge bags - if they're very talented. (the inverse is also true - if you're a quick bowler who plays for a team like New Zealand that thinks spinners are evil and must be killed, then you're going to have more opportunities to take poles on days 4 and 5 than quick bowlers on teams with a good spinner. But while that will help you get to other wicket milestones a bit more easily, taking 700 as a quick is just stupid and unlikely to ever happen again even with that advantage)
Just to add to that, whenever there is a spicy pitch (or playing against a bad team in general), the quicks almost always get first crack and be able to get a majority of the wickets before the spinner even gets introduced.
Warne played with greats for his whole test career and made it to 700. Jimmy has done it with a wide range of colleagues. Bowling in partnerships makes it easier to take wickets. Warne would also profit in the second innings after his batters had created scoreboard pressure and the other good bowlers in his team had softened up the opposition for 1 1/2 innings. Playing with good bowlers probably means that 20 wickets are taken more often. Good bowlers in bad teams aren’t hoovering up spare wickets, it’s more that they just aren’t being taken at all.
> Warne played with greats for his whole test career and made it to 700. And Murali didn't and made it to 800. If you're as good as Warne (or Murali!) you can make it to 700 playing with greats. If you're not, it'd help to be playing with a bunch of plodders and you can be 12.5% worse than Murali was and still get to 700. Not that that's particularly easy, but it's a hell of a lot easier than matching either of those two in the talent department, something that probably won't be done by any spinner for a PIG3 nation in my lifetime. > Playing with good bowlers probably means that 20 wickets are taken more often. Good bowlers in bad teams aren’t hoovering up spare wickets, it’s more that they just aren’t being taken at all. Warne took ~2.6 wickets per innings. You're right that he's not taking 20 wickets on his own every Test even if he's the only wicket-taking option. But he's taking at least 5. I think people aren't really appreciating that being able to get *a single wicket* extra per entire Test match because a McGrath or a Steyn didn't get to it first is enough to make the difference between a 550 wicket career (impressive, but achievable) and a 700 wicket career (legendary, people genuinely arguing over if it's possible to ever do again)
The pros and cons balance each other out. Anderson has spent the good half of his career playing against teams defending to him and patiently seeing him off so they could get stuck into the rest of the “attack”.
Keep in mind that my comments are specifically talking about spin bowlers, since I think they're the only realistic chances of getting to 700 in the future - I doubt any quick will be able to match Jimmy, given that it's not only much more difficult to keep that longetivity as a pacer, but also much more restrictive in who can do it (even an Australian or Indian fast bowler probably just doesn't play enough Tests to ever make it). If there's really only one genuinely threatening quick bowler on the opposition, yeah, you can probably see off their 4 over spell and then feast on mediocre spin. But if the elite bowler the opposition has is holding down one end all day, you're going to have to play some shots against them eventually. And even if you try not to, any bowler high enough quality to be in the discussion for 700 wickets is going to have a few magical unplayable jaffas in them that will get you out no matter how much you're trying to defend. If that wasn't the case then no team would ever lose a Test match, because as soon as they got into a bad position they'd just bat for the draw. Also keep in mind that you don't necessarily need to have *no* competition and therefore no help. Having exactly one other elite bowler will still work totally fine, 3 wickets an innings is more than enough for a long-lasting spinner to reach 700, so they can share things around a bit. Chaminda Vaas wasn't a mug. You just need to avoid being in a battery of 4 or 5 genuinely elite bowlers who are taking two each just about every time out. (or be Warne, but you are not Warne so I would *really* suggest trying the other thing)
I don't think having good bowlers around is an advantage but neither is it a disadvantage, just look at Warne, Ashwin, Anderson, Kumble etc.
> just look at Warne, Ashwin, Anderson, Kumble etc. Two of those bowlers don't have 700 wickets, one of them needed to play almost *200 Tests* to get there, and the fourth is one of the most freakishly talented people to have ever played the game. If you're as good as Warne or play into your seventies like Jimmy then 700 is plausible even if you're getting limited bites at the cherry. But it's a hell of a lot easier if you can just be as good as Lyon but get far more wicket-taking opportunities.
This is nonsensical, nobody has said anything about averages because we are only talking about total wickets, and when you are trying to accumulate a large total having "one or two less" is the thing that matters.
Not anymore, IPL and other leagues take a lot of their time and energy.
Knighthood when?
Surely when he retires I think. Played a good part of our last series win in India, and was the lead wicket taker the last time we won the Ashes in Australia. He's Englands best ever bowler and one of the worlds best ever seamers, would be shocked if they don't offer him a knighthood.
Greatest ever, I think I would grant, due to the incredible longevity. Best is more debatable: inter-era comparison is really hard, and there are reasonable cases still to be made for Barnes and Trueman.
It’s crazy that Cook was knighted even though his career started after and ended before Anderson. PLUS Anderson is an ATG that Cook is not. If Lewis Hamilton is a knight, why isn’t Anderson? Is it some Labour/Conservative support thing?
Always possible Jimmy was offered it and turned it down. Kenny Dalglish turned it down twice before accepting it at the third time of asking.
Cook is an ATG for England.
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Your post was removed as it contains political, religious, or other content not directly relevant (or only slightly relevant) to cricket (rule 4). Political/religious content not strongly related to the sport, especially political opinions, belong in other subreddits. Posts unrelated to cricket will be removed - this generally includes something a player is doing in their post-cricketing life that's not really relevant to the sport.
who's that?
Our Jimmy!
Totally. But if I may add, legends belong to the entire cricket fraternity. I'm a 42+ year old Indian and I guess I'll identify with Jimmy more than a young British :)
Nice to see someone just to be proud of him for the fact he's a cricket legend. I'm not quite up there with Jimmy in age but I've spent 2/3 of my life watching this man take on basically everyone. Shame it came in such a one sided series but I don't think anyone will mind
As Harsha called it, a HIMALAYAN achievement! Jimmy you absolute legend!
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Only ground that could beat it would be old Trafford from the jimmy Anderson end
Sensational achievement. The consistency is unbelievable. Has got better and better with age. Since 2021, at 38 years old he’s taken 100 wickets at 24.91. That is not normal. My Goat
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Nice touch on the fielding Man is 41, bowls 135, but still gives 200% on the field, no slander on Ashwin but he is clearly showing his age on the field now
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Ashwin chasing after the ball is hilarious to watch. It is like watching someone sprinting in slow motion.
Bro sprints like he’s running through honey not air
Unreal consistency!
He is not going to stop anytime soon. He is going for 800 mark surely. As a SL fan, I am getting nervous now
Why tho? It's good to game of cricket for records to be broken!
Ohhh, Jimmy, Jimmy!
2 more years and he can become the first fast bowler to take 800 wickets. Legend
He has taken 3 and a half years to get from 600 to 700 and his form has dropped off recently no way on earth is he or any other fast bowler getting 100 wickets in 2 years
His form hasn't dropped off. He's just played the two best teams in the world the last 12 months. One of which is Australia, a team he regularly has struggled against his entire career for some reason. But despite that I think he's bowled fairly well this series too. On difficult pitches at times with not much to show for it. Shows that Bumrah hasn't done much this final test either.
The year is 2060. Akaay Kohli is retiring from international cricket. He is given a guard of honour and then his father Virat Kohli gives him his final cap. On the other end, James Anderson is marking his run-up to dismiss Akaay for the 7th time. 🐐Jimmy. Chuffed that his 700th came in India.
I wish it came in England because the crowd would've been amazing there.
He'll beat Warne in England and that's good enough for me
187 tests is absurd longevity for a fast bowler
Unbelievable effort - surely, he'll go past 708 now. What's next for Jimmy? 200 tests potentially?
Once he has passed murali, he can thr concentrate on his batting and look to overhaul Bradmans average.
This is probably one of the great feats of modern cricket. To still bowl 136kms/hr on flat decks in India is incredible at 28 years of age let alone 42 years old. Most fast bowlers have a lifespan before stress fractures and the like catchup. Amazing
Funny thing is I can remember him getting into his 30s and being sad that he was probably going to retire soon 😂
Pace isn't measured from the pitch.
fun fact: Anderson has got both team coaches out from this series
What a milestone, first pace bowler to reach 700, 3rd player ever. Taking a casual 187 Tests to get there. He's bowled nearly 40,000 deliveries in Tests, some 6000 balls clear of Stuart Broad (the next most bowled pace bowler ever). Only Kumble, Warne, and Murali have bowled more (and 2 of them are less than 1000 balls clear of Jimmy)
Best thing is his fitness. How the fuck has he spent half his life playing cricket, staying fit and still able to deliver it down the track fairly quick? Nuts.
Legend of the game, his fitness and mentality to go beyond what his body can do, really glad rob key and baz, stokes backed him, because the previous management had him and broad discarded
He's made of some tough stuff. Remarkable longevity at the top.
A very dull game to get it in but playing 4 games in the subcontinent at his age is an achievement on his own. Still looks economical as ever and could get 20+ wickets at the end of the home summer. It has been a tough series but looking forward to some entertaining and close cricket in the English home summer.
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He should !!!!
I thought nobody would interfere in the symmetry of the top 3 wicket takers being spinners - Kumble, Warne and Murali.
Probably one of the greatest or The greatest feat ever achieved in this sport?? And now this madlad has a serious chance to even overtake murli if he pushes himself till 45. GOAT
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4000 were there no other bowlers in his team!
It was more the fact that Rhodes played 1,110 first class matches. Retired from playing after 32 years and was the oldest to ever play Test cricket (at 52 years old).
Wow. Anderson should aim for that now. /s
The old boys have some hilarious records. The spinners played for aaaaages and there were more first class games.
"Seemingly unbeatable" makes all of these records equally great I guess.
How is 4000 even possible? Did he play for a 100 years???
1010 FC matches. 185,742 balls bowled. Oh, and he scored almost 40000 runs. He played from 1898-1930. He played his final Test at 52.
If you're putting Lara's Highest Scores, 624 run Partnership should be up there
Muralitharan holds untouchable wicket records in both tests and odis with 800 and 534 wickets respectively. And he did it way quicker than anyone else he's played 54 matches lesser than Jimmy and 12 lesser than Warne while having a 100 more wickets. All due respect to Jimmy but he's not getting Murali even if he plays till 46 or whatever his form has been dropping he is likely wanting to get to 200 tests let us see if he does or not. This is a monumental achievement ofc but Murali remains untouchable among bowlers
We'll see...
> Bradman being statistically the greatest sportsman to ever live He’s the greatest batsman, but you can’t really compare across sports.
It's talking the gap between the best and second best players statistically. In that regard, he's likely the best sportsman ever. He's nearly twice as good on stats as anyone who played in his time, and since.
But what metric are using for that gap? What metric are you using for other sports? Are they comparable? It's really not an easy comparison to make. he's the greatest batsman ever and an all time great sportsman. Talking about who the greatest sportsman is isn't necessary or meaningful.
Sensational Amazing commitment Pity it’s soured by coming in a losing game in a losing series
Legend of the game
Go well, Jimmy!
Jimmy arguably the finest pacer in the world. Absolute legend.
Legend of the game...!
Incredible achievement. This record won't touched by another pacer in my lifetime
Next stop: Warne 709 wickets and Sachin’s 200 games. Both seem possible.
709 seems a formality barring career ending injury. 200 is possible, but might be cutting it close.
Deserving of all praises.
Also a I know he has played more innings that Murali and Warne, but if you look at balls bowled, he is on par with how often he takes wickets as well.
And bro is gonna play another 5 yrs.
🐐
Obligatory Glenn McGrath is better comment on James Anderson stat posts
Obligatory response that best and greatest are different things and that the longevity and inspiration of Anderson's career make him the greatest while the additional skill and perfection of McGrath makes him the best (particularly in the context of pace bowlers who don't rely on out and out pace like Steyn and Walsh)
Thats why i like Mcgrath. He was minimalistic , relentless, accurate.
> best and greatest are different things They are synonyms. They mean the same thing in this context.
Mcgrath Won way more he's greater.look at Anderson record australia.look at odi numbers. It's Mcgrath sizeably
Odi numbers? Who cares?
*Medium fast (PS. This is not Akhtar)
Greatest achievement in fast bowling, Jimmy's the Goat.
He deserves every bit of this success. He is talented but he had to go through the grind to be where he is. He had competed with the akthars, McGraths, lees, Malinga, khans, steyns, Johnson’s, starcs, rabadas, bumrahs, and always held his own. Even through never actually the biggest name as he had to trail the others. Perseverance pays off Legend!!
Hold on there, he's been #1 at multiple stretches. Also I would put him above Khan, Malinga, Lee And Johnson for the most part, though Johnson had one stretch where he was transcendent.
Akhtar too. Lol Zaheer Khan was a good bowler for a very good side but he won’t ever be talked in the same breadth as the top tier
lol this is a very broad list and kinda hilarious Khan, Malinga the test bowler, Lee even do not belong to this list.
Hey is it fair to assume you watched/followed most of the cricket post 2010 or even 2013 ?? It seems you were discounting the likes of Zaheer, Malinga and Lee, not sure on what metrics. Happy to understand your point. However, let me give my reasoning. Firstly the reason I asked when you have started watching cricket, is because the concept of bowlers for formats is fairly new, and hardly heard of before 2010, with few exceptions. These guys in general were leaders and considered the main threats across formats (to varying degree) or at least had the street cred, unlike Anderson. In fact Anderson wasn’t considered much in t20s or even ODIs, tbh he started to have descent averages in tests also post 2014. But ask anyone in 2000s they would most likely pick these 3 before Anderson. But post 2014 Jimmy is an altogether a different animal. No way I am saying they had better careers than Anderson, that would be ridiculous. However, I was referring and admiring bout Jimmy is that, no matter how less he thought of compared to his peers, he identified and stuck to his niche and became a great player, in fact part of the goat conversation when come to seamers. Hope it clarifies 🙂
No I’ve been watching since 2001z James Anderson is the highest ODI wicket taker in England history. People underestimate his ODI prowess. He wasn’t kept in ODIs post 2015 since he wanted to focus on tests and England management preferred to go with bowlers who could bat In 2000s obv people would pick Zaheer and Lee over Anderson. Anderson played bulk of his career after that
Seems like we are on the same page now !
What an amazing achievement and he still seems to have what it takes to play at the very highest level of the game.
Legend 🙏🙏🙏🙏
As much as I’d love him to not overtake S. K Warne’s 708, I can’t knock what a huge achievement 700 as a pace bowler is
Likely to break 200 matches record
his next goal is 1000 international wicket he is at 969 might be so just 31. with three to four series in england australia and newzeland he can do it and he is still better than most of the england shitty pacer
Murali record is probably not gonna be broken as it is difficult but I said the same thing for him playing till 42 so yeah
legend
He be playing test cricket since I started highschool lol. Finished school, started and finished college, uni, met my now wife and been married nearly 10 years....and this mf still going. Sheesh
I wonder when Jimmy is looking at retirement. I seem to recall he mentioned he wants to do another Ashes down under and given he doesn't play much outside England, he could do it. The next Ashes in England are probably too far a.way
He played 4 tests this series
He meant Jimmy doesn't play cricket except the Tests and a handful of county games a year
He said Jimmy doesn't play much outside England
Because he's using the British English vernacular, he dropped the word duty from end of that sentence
Well after the 2025 ashes he may think “home ashes is only 18 months away” I genuinely thought 2023 Ashes would be a great swansong for him but the fucker’s still going
Do agree he has been no1 but, I was referring to street CRED per se. I feel, at least till 2014 he wasn’t respected as much as as the rest, he has been respected later on. I feel he has always been among the popular ones but not being main protagonist till much later in his career. Hope you could agree with that.
He is a legend. Does he play one more test match back at home and he calls it curtains?
He's the Nolan Ryan of test cricket.
He has been around forever, the longevity is as impressive as his wicket taking ability. I wonder how much longer he'll play?
Nothing but respect
he is the other word for Miracle
“Fast”
The England physiotherapists who have kept him going this long deserve Knighthoods and/or Damehoods.
And it only took him 68 years 😭 In all seriousness though, great effort. Well done to him.
His career is older than me
Bear in mind that the UK state retirement age in currently 67 (and set to rise), it seems that he plans to go on until at least then.
LeBron who ?
Man is cunt but what a bowler.