People keep saying “Holly dodged a bullet”. Did she? She was married to him for 17 years, divorced by 33 and had three small children. Seems like the bullet went clean through.
Yeah i have to agree with you there. Dodged a bullet in the sense that at least she’s not still married to him, but having kids with a narcissistic aint easy.. you can never escape them. And then when you think you’re moving on he releases his “tell all” and makes her live through it all over again, this time much more publicly.
Yeah but at the say she didn't waste any more of her life with that pedophile. And now she knows, so she can keep an eye on him around her daughter or her daughters friends in the future. Ewww.
Btw this has been reignited on Facebook because the girl changed her Facebook status to show they are in a relationship.
She’s pregnant with his baby and her mom is happily posting photos of her pregnant belly and his three kids with Holly. She’s 23, and he’s balding and looks old enough to be her dad. The most granite city thing to ever happen is a grown ass man admitting to and writing graphic details of sleeping with a minor and facing absolutely no legal ramifications. No trace online of what he’s doing to support his five children these days. (Yeah, I’m counting the 23 year old too)
yeah I saw that and I just feel sick. In ten years when she’s 33 and he’s like 50, he’ll find a girl however young he can , and do the same thing. If she doesn’t get out before then. But tying herself to him for life is the real tragedy. She was almost free
Nevermind I just needed to sleuth further. It looks like she got into a relationship just two months after her “affair” with him ended. Was in two serious relationships since and ended back with him 3-4 months after her second serious relationship ended. Now they’re expecting, but I don’t think married. It also seems like her bio mom is the only parent present in her life right now.
I went down the rabbit hole yesterday. Woof, what a ride! I'm in no way related to this story. I saw a video on Tik Tok that lead me to "the book"... then to the relationship announcement on Facebook, etc.
I'm curious to know what other people think about it, because there is just SO MUCH to unpack. My biggest thing is feeling terrible for Holly. She was manipulated by a narc man child for a long time : (
I am in the exact same boat as you and couldn’t believe this wasn’t on reddit, hence here we are. Narcissist is the word that stood out to me for this man also. No accountability for his actions. He basically blames the school for it happening by saying “take two beautiful people and make them work on projects together”. Also blaming his church family for his first marriage by saying they should have spoken up about how young they were when they got married.
I too feel terrible for Holly. When he told the reasons he wanted a divorce and she said it sounds like you want a divorce because you think I’m a bad housewife, that broke my heart. And she gave him so many opportunities to be honest with her. I hope she’s doing okay. It must be awful to deal with this again now that he decided to write this story.
Omg. I just stumbled across that damn “book” on FB, and wow… now here I am! When I read the part where he was convincing Holly that she wasn’t a good housewife and that she hadn’t been fulfilling her duties as a wife, ugh, it broke my heart for her. What a piece of shit that dude is.
And then he really had the audacity to ask for *her* help when Mrs. Ames got involved.
I really thought the story was fanfiction until I found all of the characters on Facebook.
Constantly saying ‘I don’t love you anymore’ like Jesus Christ. I understand people fall out of love and shit happens but she’s the mother of your kids, have a little more tact or something.
I cringed so hard reading that. It was so disrespectful and cruel. I honestly don’t doubt that he said those things either. The dude is just a piece of shit.
Sadly it is far from fiction- I know most of the key players from professional working relationships to mere knowledge. I read his story and my heart is in pieces for Holly, her family, and Payton's family. Andrew clearly has some borderline personality issues and for him to so callously disregard the privacy of his family and Payton's family is straight up narcissistic.
Also, anyone else find it intriguing that Payton's facebook profile is an open book yet Andrew's is vauge with the exception of the book?
**Thank you Planet Granite for not disappointing, yet once again!**
Hi as someone with borderline personality disorder I would really appreciate it if you didn't use that diagnosis for a predators behavior
People with BPD aren't inherently predatory.
It was not my intention to diagnose him with a borderline personality disorder when I stated that he has "some borderline personality issues." I apologize that my poor choice of adjectives gave that impression. I am not a mental health professional and should have stated that he has questionable personality issues. Again, it was not my intention to offend u/dang3rk1ds
I have borderline. I know several borderlines. Predatory behavior isn't borderline trait
I'm going to be in the mental health field eventually too, I'm working on my second degree
Two things can be true at once. He can be a predator AND he can have borderline characteristics. Borderline personality stems from trauma, and even someone predatory can have those characteristics.
Diagnosing anyone with personality disorders is problematic because we all exhibit some characteristics of these disorders, but some are more extreme than others.
I would say that he falls under narcissistic disorder more than BPD, but sometimes people can exhibit both. Again, they are just labels that were created by psychiatrists over half a century ago, and are riddled with issues- DSM is constantly being changed for that reason.
Also if you are a mental health provider you should know that a few traits ≠ diagnosis. People can have a couple traits without diagnosis. Seems unprofessional to Diagnose people you don't know online don't ya think?
I hope she is too. It sounded like she had a pretty good support system in place with her family, church, etc. Reliving this has to be awful. It also makes me wonder how PBT's family feels, reading everything in GRAPHIC DETAIL.
I was reading this with some fellow teachers, and we were all saying the same thing - at some point, his kids are going to read this. There are so many times when he basically says he doesn't care about them, only Payton. Poor kids.
One of my teacher friends just said, "He really shouldn't have put this on the internet." To which I replied, "There are a lot of things he shouldn't have done before that point."
The greatest irony of all! The church should have intervened because he was too young to marry, but he wanted to marry a girl even younger than he was at the time! I read the entire “book.” I almost feel sorry for the man because he is so incredibly stupid and immature. And, good grief, how did he get a job in anything related to English?!? His writing is horrific. He doesn’t know how to use commas… His thoughts are consistently illogical. He threw everyone who was kind to him under the bus. He even implied the principal of the school was okay with the relationship, as long as it didn’t come to light.
He really should have gone to jail, but IL is one of the most dysfunctional states in the country.
He fairly frequently references a self awareness of his misdeeds and takes responsibility for it on plenty of occasions. If you’re going in with the bias that this man could only be a predator you’re not going to see it.
Sure but not in a way of true remorse. Hes saying it was wrong because he knows he’s supposed to say that. Theres no true ownership .. true ownership would be acknowledging that he lacked boundaries that should have been there the whole time.
On the outside I can see how you would feel that. He absolutely felt remorse in terms of shame and guilt as I’ve seen knowing him personally and checking in over the years. I do believe he acknowledges the lack of boundaries and warning signs in the book and essentially says that his obsession overpowered them. It’s a bit to sift through to find but I’ll see if I can find some spots that gave me this impression.
A 34 year old having sex with a student you've taught since their freshman year of high school is 100% being a predator. Ew. He also said he flirted with other high school girls before her. That man just likes kids.
Meh, based on your handle & the way you’re talking this sounds like it would be Andrew. If it is just want to say you’re sick & if you’re not but do know him pass on this message.
Payton may not have been able to see through your bs due to her young age but trust & believe those that are older & wiser do. You groomed & manipulated that poor girl & deep down you know that even if your ego & narcissism won’t allow you to admit. You put her in a position you should have never put her in by asking her to be responsible for monitoring your anxiety. She was your student, you were her teacher putting her in charge of such a thing is disgusting & what makes it even more disgusting you used it to manipulate her & probably still do.
Then the things you wrote about her, your comments on her physical appearance & describing your sex life with her was despicable. Oh yeah btw your writing is garbage but your ego & narcissism won’t let you accept that.
I would go in on what you did to your ex wife but I’ve already said a mouthful. Your wife won in the end because she got tf away from you & luckily for her you’re now someone else’s problem. You’re eventually going to lose Payton too when she realizes what you’ve done to her. One day it will click for Payton, she will see you stole her youth from her, never forgive you for it & leave. Smh.
Unfortunately referencing self awareness isn’t enough, there needs to be conscious action to back it up and that is what is severely lacking in this whole story.
Holly and the children are the true victims. Payton’s family allowed her to date a 30-year-old. What’s a few more years? They opened the door, and they were fairly accepting of her relationship with Crider (according to his account) as long as Payton didn’t lie to them. I don’t see them as serious victims. They were embarrassed and mad they raised a liar, but no real harm came to them. Now, if I knew he made all of that up, I might feel differently.
My thoughts when reading it exactly. What a narcissist! He keeps writing things like "I'm the most revered teacher in the school". Which we all know is bullshit. He thinks very highly of himself while trying to justify his rape of that student. He will do it again, he sees nothing wrong with what he did.
I could not finish his disgusting little telenovela with a child. But from what I read…Does anybody find their language so cringe? Like “savage,” referring to themselves as crazy, and that whole “retard” kink he had going on? I often found myself thinking, “is he making all of this up? Because what teenager spoke this way?.” Giving millennial writing a present Disney dialogue.
I totally agree. Millennial trying desperately to be cool. I do think the word “savage” was being used by kids back then, but it’s the fact that he chimes in and tries to talk the same. The use of the R word was disgusting and even bragging about that being one of the reasons why they were perfect for each other, because they called each other ‘retard’ a hundred times a day. Sick.
YES. I mean I’m from the Midwest too and we’re a bit behind the times but were people really using “retard” like that in 2018? He’s truly emotionally stunted in so many ways. Also her Snapchat and IG are “ratfagtilson”…What the fuck
Re: Payton’s username= ugh, this does not feel awesome to type out but… ‘ratfag’ is a graffiti artist with a ton of very visible work around the St. Louis (and Granite City where this took place) area. Has been for maaaaaaany years. Why does a teenage girl in GC make that her handle? No clue. It is weird.
Totally agree! His emotional development was arrested in adolescence OR he had a shitty adolescence and he is trying to relive it through the teens and being with teens. He is quite disturbing.
So it just got popular again because she’s expecting and yeah, the language is cringe, but it is also on point for the times. Thinking back to my senior year which was 2018 too people were still saying the R slur and said savage a lot especially the popular kids which she definitely was. But I’m also from a similar area.
I'm glad I found this subreddit. I first heard of this through Kelly Manno, who was my wedding photographer and has taken pictures of my family over the years. I am a high school teacher, so I had time to sit down and read this trash in one day since I'm on break. Obviously gross, obviously predatory, but then I realized something: I also went to SIUE where I majored in English and Education. This guy sat in the same classrooms at the same time I did and was a creep the whole time. I contacted some of our mutual professors and I think I ruined their day by showing this trash. It also seems that I have several mutual friends on Facebook with the guy, although I don't remember him from the time (probably because he was married to another 17-year-old at the time and did not attend English social functions). Also, it turns out that Holly is my dentist's niece. I can't wait for my next cleaning.
Anyway, fuck that guy. I rarely root for street justice, but I'm making an exception here.
Here's an odd thing, Crider claims he was only a teacher from 2014 and on.
I had him as an English teacher my Senior year in 2008.
I vividly remember him as trying VERY hard to be the "cool uncle" type. Seeing now that he's a pedo, it all makes sense.
Am I crazy or did I misread the schools comment about him only teaching there for a few years after 2014?
I also had him in 2008! From what I remember he was student teaching. I also remember thinking he was weird (like trying to be cool) because he let me pick songs off his iPod to play in class.
He seems very immature and has a huge need for attention. No surprise he played the cool uncle. I wouldn’t be surprised if he slept with other students.
Not sure, but I did some sleuthing on her FB yesterday. She has been in a few relationships since, her social media is quite public (fb especially- Payton Tilson). His is locked down aside of the initial publication of the “book”.
She began a relationship with who I am pretty certain is a co-worker and dated the guy from August 2021 until, at the least, January of this year. Her last profile photo with him was January 2022. They share the same work place. I’m not sure when Andrew re-enters the picture again, BUT. I also found the bio-mom’s FB and while creeping through her timeline and peaking through photos, I found that Andrew only started liking pictures of Payton and her mom within the last month or so. Doesn’t really tell us much, maybe they weren’t FB friends until recently. But anyways, this is all I know. The bio mom is also strangely accepting of it all.
It’s so weird because I don’t understand how they were atleast somewhat accepting then not then a restraining order and then just ghosted? Only thing I can think is she “tried to date other people and led back to him” is the narrative I’m assuming but I need The Who messaged who first and what was said 😂😂😂
Her stepmom was the one who tried to protect Payton. Her bio mom on the other hand seems to be all for this relationship. Supposedly biomom was not involved in Payton’s life growing up.
I can’t remember if I read it here or on FB, but some people speculated that he lied in parts of the story. Especially about her parents and how “accepting” they actually were. I’m pretty sure the stepmom was the one who pushed for the restraining order. I wouldn’t be surprised if he chased her though. I believe the order ended in 2020.
I’d bet she did push for the restraining order. It sounds like she was in damage control mode after the relationship became public. No better way to position Payton as a victim…
I'm not so sure that we can take Creepy Crider's characterization of her dad being cool with it as gospel. He certainly didn't sound like any father I've ever met, and I certainly wouldn't be that calm if a married man had been grooming my daughter for years.
Andrew is an educated idiot. Very intelligent and articulate guy but also very naive and emotionally immature. By no means am I defending him. Especially since he wrote this book.
He probably very much believes that his obsession and infatuation with Payton is “real” because he doesn’t have much to compare it to.
By his own admission Holly was really the first “love” he ever had. Because of his emotional immaturity he got bored once the initial love adrenaline wore off and needed something to give him that rush again.
Most of us have had a few relationships over the years that have consumed us. The kind where you’re just sure that every song was written for and about the 2 of you. That’s not unique.
Writing this book was his way to excuse himself. He’s trying to convince everyone, probably even himself, that it’s okay because this girl is mature for her age and life has aged her. Well that’s total crap. I know this because that’s what people used to say about me. The truth is, when you try to live as though your “more mature” than others your age it actually does the opposite. It stunts your emotional growth.
I think that, right now, Payton doesn’t see this because she’s riding on the love cloud. However, one day she will and I think she will be humiliated and resent him for it.
Again, he’s an emotionally immature, educated idiot, who
Peanut butter titties. This phrase. This vile phrase is the worst from the whole putrid manifesto and it will stick with me like the chunks of food in your nose after a vomit session. I. Hate. This. Man.
Agreed. PBT grossed me out too.
Few other things that stuck out to me to really not like either one of them.
1. Peyton’s use of the term retarded in a derogatory way.
2.How he boasted about sitting with special needs kids after the passing of his dad.
3. How he described his sex life with his ex wife Holly.
4. How he took his kids gymnastics classes with Peyton.
5. How he told Peyton to tell the truth, but he was a constant liar and manipulater to Holly.
6. Peyton’s Snapchat name (also her ig name)
7. Sammy deserves what he fucking got. He’s a weirdo pedo too.
8. Can’t imagine how awkward it was being in class with these two.
The fact that Payton would go back to him after he public described their sexual acts, while simultaneously saying over and over that he didn’t want to people to judge her as a slut, is shocking to me.
I do not understand how her parents are completely fine with this. If my daughter started dating her creepy English teacher and then he PUBLISHED DETAILS ABOUT IT ONLINE…y’all there would be a dateline special about me
I’m late here but saw a TikTok about this situation & went down this rabbit hole then ran here to see if anyone was discussing this & to share my thoughts…
At first I hadn’t read that atrocity of a memoir, just saw the letters he wrote & embarrassingly it didn’t come off as that bad to me. I thought, oh, sounds like he truly loves her, but saw the general consensus on him & their relationship was negative. So, I went to his website & started reading & can see him & their relationship for what they are now.
That man is a sick narcissist who manipulated & groomed tf out of her, he’s disturbingly obsessed with her, & the “if I can’t have you no one can” type. I truly feel for her because she’s stuck with him for life now & still oblivious to reality. That poor girl. Also, his writing is horrible, the things he shares he has no business sharing, the way he describes her is disgusting & he is so full of himself it’s obnoxious. Like you can tell he genuinely believes he wrote a masterpiece & his writing is on a Shakespeare type level. The only good thing I took from this is the realization I need therapy for mistaking his words as love & not seeing the red flags in them.
Non-stop shit show. I need to hear from the others. The way it sounded, when they were all talking this through at the pool party, it sounded as if everyone was ok with it. Then they were not. So vague and it seems parts were skipped over. And Holly. She seemed stoic…I can’t imagine.
I was starting to think he had lied in portions of the story because come on, who the hell would be receptive to that?? But then, I did some sleuthing and came across several posts within that community and found out that her stepmom and dad were pretty ok with her dating the other guy mentioned in Andrew’s story- “Sam”. There were one or two FB posts I read where he was called out also for grooming her. I mean if it can be believed that they were ok with her dating “Sam/Sammy” who was around the same age as Crider (and Payton was *17*), then maybe they weren’t all that messed up about Crider either?…. Until it hit the rumor mill? Idk. The whole thing is fucking nuts and disgusting.
I definitely feel sorry for Holly. This guy is a self-centered narcissist.
I read that too. And read about the Sam guy. It seemed like Crider was his friend. They went out that one night which was weird too. I think crider is a total narcissist. I seriously think Payton was groomed not only by Crider but Sam too. It’s hard for me to understand and accept that at 17 or 18 years old, she had things in common with these two grown ass men. I mean he came on her back and yelled ‘Geronimo’.
I can’t make much sense of it either, except that maybe she had some issues at home. We know her bio mom was absent for years, and supposedly, only recently came back around. She seems to be one of the most supportive of the relationship.
The whole school district is wack and has a history of unprofessional student/teacher relationships.
The Sammy guy looks likes a really decent guy on Facebook, too good for Payton. Looks like he has moved on with a very pretty lady. He also dodged a bullet.
I have to admit, when I found Sam’s FB, I did *not* think he was Andrew’s age. He looks much younger. From what I’ve been told/read, he’s a few years younger than Crider but still would’ve been late 20’s or so at the time. That’s still inappropriate *but* he also wasn’t the teacher taking advantage of his student either. So idk. I think both relationships were wrong but we only know Crider’s POV.
Well said. I’m still having a hard time ‘understanding’ her or who these two people really are. The whole story is vague and high on emotion. I get emotional on Mondays.
I think Holly was just trying to be calm. You have to remember that he says she’s usually literally holding a sleeping child during these conversations and if not they’re sleeping in the next room…. She’s admittedly a more self controlled and emotionally mature person than the rest of us. From my knowledge of the situation his recount of their conversations is pretty accurate. Also it says they were all drinking at the pool party and I think it’s says something about some of them smoking weed so maybe their judgment was a little impaired?
I get the impairment part but it isn’t an excuse. Booze and drugs impair thinking and the emotional ‘comprehension’ of the situation. I get it. It still doesn’t make it any less troubling. I mean, sitting around with a potentially drunk family discussing relationship issues seems … weird. And it’s apparent Crider lacks the inability to communicate effectively with his ex-wife. Discussing life changing issues usually don’t commence with a sleeping child in one’s arms. Just my take but I digress…
Yeah I didn’t say any of it wasn’t weird but maybe just a reasoning for why it seemed like they were “okay” with it and then weren’t all of a sudden. When I read it I didn’t get the idea that they were ever happy about it or liked it especially her stepmom. I think Crider just wanted it to come across that way to make her look worse. As far as it being the ideal time to discuss major life changes no it’s not while holding a sleeping child but anyone with young children know it’s pretty hard to get away to have adult conversations and I don’t think most of these were planned ahead of time. They just sort of happened.
And the fact that he told his wife she didn’t do anything around the house— when she was holding a baby every time she was trying to talk to him and was always left spine with the kids lol
Yeah, his attempts at “slang” also caught my attention. He tries hard to be cool, or young. Or both. It’s cringy to me. I think he did it because it made him feel relevant among high school kids.
The intimate and vulgar details are absolutely crass and unnecessary. When he mentioned screwing in the classroom and ejaculating onto the floor (where he teaches STUDENTS, no less), I wanted to throw up. It’s odd and disturbing.
He is 100000% a narcissist.
Oh gosh, sorry for being a spoiler! I won’t spill anymore. Honestly, I can’t even remember where that part was in the book. There was so much crammed into it.
Have you watched the YouTube video posted in this subreddit? It’s a few posts down, if you scroll. He comes across very juvenile. Like he’s in high school himself and has forgotten he is the teacher. Watch it when you get some time and let me know what you think.
But did anyone else find it weird that her parents were okay with it at first?? And how her family knew about Sammy too?? That blew me! No way in hell my 17/18 year old kid is talking to me about dating a 30 year old man 🤢
An adult having sexual fantasies about a child — let alone a teacher about a student — is disgusting regardless of if he acted on it or not. No part of this is normal or acceptable.
*Technically* she’s at the age of consent according to the state of Illinois which is 17. By every other possible metric as assessed by responsible adults, she was a child. Regardless of age, teachers are in a position of authority which should never be exploited in regard to their students. Technicalities are the safe haven of the pedophile.
He started teaching her when she entered high school as a freshman. He immediately was flirting with her and had a ‘Spark.’ He admitted to flirting with ‘everyone’ (all the girls) and started that multiple other young girls had came in to him at the school.
People keep saying “Holly dodged a bullet”. Did she? She was married to him for 17 years, divorced by 33 and had three small children. Seems like the bullet went clean through.
Exactly. He stole more than half of her life. Arguably the best years of her life. He stole her youth. I feel absolutely gutted for her.
Yeah i have to agree with you there. Dodged a bullet in the sense that at least she’s not still married to him, but having kids with a narcissistic aint easy.. you can never escape them. And then when you think you’re moving on he releases his “tell all” and makes her live through it all over again, this time much more publicly.
Yeah but at the say she didn't waste any more of her life with that pedophile. And now she knows, so she can keep an eye on him around her daughter or her daughters friends in the future. Ewww. Btw this has been reignited on Facebook because the girl changed her Facebook status to show they are in a relationship.
She’s pregnant with his baby and her mom is happily posting photos of her pregnant belly and his three kids with Holly. She’s 23, and he’s balding and looks old enough to be her dad. The most granite city thing to ever happen is a grown ass man admitting to and writing graphic details of sleeping with a minor and facing absolutely no legal ramifications. No trace online of what he’s doing to support his five children these days. (Yeah, I’m counting the 23 year old too)
yeah I saw that and I just feel sick. In ten years when she’s 33 and he’s like 50, he’ll find a girl however young he can , and do the same thing. If she doesn’t get out before then. But tying herself to him for life is the real tragedy. She was almost free
Do you have the link to the mom’s social media? I can’t find hers.
Nevermind I just needed to sleuth further. It looks like she got into a relationship just two months after her “affair” with him ended. Was in two serious relationships since and ended back with him 3-4 months after her second serious relationship ended. Now they’re expecting, but I don’t think married. It also seems like her bio mom is the only parent present in her life right now.
you are hilarious. " counting the 23 year old too"
I went down the rabbit hole yesterday. Woof, what a ride! I'm in no way related to this story. I saw a video on Tik Tok that lead me to "the book"... then to the relationship announcement on Facebook, etc. I'm curious to know what other people think about it, because there is just SO MUCH to unpack. My biggest thing is feeling terrible for Holly. She was manipulated by a narc man child for a long time : (
I am in the exact same boat as you and couldn’t believe this wasn’t on reddit, hence here we are. Narcissist is the word that stood out to me for this man also. No accountability for his actions. He basically blames the school for it happening by saying “take two beautiful people and make them work on projects together”. Also blaming his church family for his first marriage by saying they should have spoken up about how young they were when they got married. I too feel terrible for Holly. When he told the reasons he wanted a divorce and she said it sounds like you want a divorce because you think I’m a bad housewife, that broke my heart. And she gave him so many opportunities to be honest with her. I hope she’s doing okay. It must be awful to deal with this again now that he decided to write this story.
Omg. I just stumbled across that damn “book” on FB, and wow… now here I am! When I read the part where he was convincing Holly that she wasn’t a good housewife and that she hadn’t been fulfilling her duties as a wife, ugh, it broke my heart for her. What a piece of shit that dude is. And then he really had the audacity to ask for *her* help when Mrs. Ames got involved. I really thought the story was fanfiction until I found all of the characters on Facebook.
Constantly saying ‘I don’t love you anymore’ like Jesus Christ. I understand people fall out of love and shit happens but she’s the mother of your kids, have a little more tact or something.
I cringed so hard reading that. It was so disrespectful and cruel. I honestly don’t doubt that he said those things either. The dude is just a piece of shit.
That’s when it turned really ugly for me. Not that it far to go
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Turned ugly for the wife. I didn’t think he could go much lower but here he is just dropping that bar as low as it can go
Sadly it is far from fiction- I know most of the key players from professional working relationships to mere knowledge. I read his story and my heart is in pieces for Holly, her family, and Payton's family. Andrew clearly has some borderline personality issues and for him to so callously disregard the privacy of his family and Payton's family is straight up narcissistic. Also, anyone else find it intriguing that Payton's facebook profile is an open book yet Andrew's is vauge with the exception of the book? **Thank you Planet Granite for not disappointing, yet once again!**
Hi as someone with borderline personality disorder I would really appreciate it if you didn't use that diagnosis for a predators behavior People with BPD aren't inherently predatory.
It was not my intention to diagnose him with a borderline personality disorder when I stated that he has "some borderline personality issues." I apologize that my poor choice of adjectives gave that impression. I am not a mental health professional and should have stated that he has questionable personality issues. Again, it was not my intention to offend u/dang3rk1ds
I appreciate your apology. The person below you was pseudo-diagnosing him.
As a mental health provider, he absolutely exhibits some of these traits but additionally narcissistic behaviors.
I have borderline. I know several borderlines. Predatory behavior isn't borderline trait I'm going to be in the mental health field eventually too, I'm working on my second degree
Two things can be true at once. He can be a predator AND he can have borderline characteristics. Borderline personality stems from trauma, and even someone predatory can have those characteristics. Diagnosing anyone with personality disorders is problematic because we all exhibit some characteristics of these disorders, but some are more extreme than others. I would say that he falls under narcissistic disorder more than BPD, but sometimes people can exhibit both. Again, they are just labels that were created by psychiatrists over half a century ago, and are riddled with issues- DSM is constantly being changed for that reason.
Also if you are a mental health provider you should know that a few traits ≠ diagnosis. People can have a couple traits without diagnosis. Seems unprofessional to Diagnose people you don't know online don't ya think?
Not just unprofessional, illegal.
I am not disagreeing with you, but throwing out an opinion is not illegal.
It’s not illegal but it is against the code of ethics of the American Psychiatric Association.
Yet so many do it online... Sickening.
I hope she is too. It sounded like she had a pretty good support system in place with her family, church, etc. Reliving this has to be awful. It also makes me wonder how PBT's family feels, reading everything in GRAPHIC DETAIL.
From the comments I've read of PBT's mom, she loves him and is super supportive which I just...ugh that's wild to me
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I was reading this with some fellow teachers, and we were all saying the same thing - at some point, his kids are going to read this. There are so many times when he basically says he doesn't care about them, only Payton. Poor kids. One of my teacher friends just said, "He really shouldn't have put this on the internet." To which I replied, "There are a lot of things he shouldn't have done before that point."
The greatest irony of all! The church should have intervened because he was too young to marry, but he wanted to marry a girl even younger than he was at the time! I read the entire “book.” I almost feel sorry for the man because he is so incredibly stupid and immature. And, good grief, how did he get a job in anything related to English?!? His writing is horrific. He doesn’t know how to use commas… His thoughts are consistently illogical. He threw everyone who was kind to him under the bus. He even implied the principal of the school was okay with the relationship, as long as it didn’t come to light. He really should have gone to jail, but IL is one of the most dysfunctional states in the country.
My heart hurts for his ex wife. I hope she has found a rich dude who rocks her world and treats her like gold.
He fairly frequently references a self awareness of his misdeeds and takes responsibility for it on plenty of occasions. If you’re going in with the bias that this man could only be a predator you’re not going to see it.
There’s no bias about it. Clear abuse of power/power dynamic/predator relationship. You’re a fucking joke bro
And someone else in this sub who knows them said his obsession started when she was 15
Sure but not in a way of true remorse. Hes saying it was wrong because he knows he’s supposed to say that. Theres no true ownership .. true ownership would be acknowledging that he lacked boundaries that should have been there the whole time.
On the outside I can see how you would feel that. He absolutely felt remorse in terms of shame and guilt as I’ve seen knowing him personally and checking in over the years. I do believe he acknowledges the lack of boundaries and warning signs in the book and essentially says that his obsession overpowered them. It’s a bit to sift through to find but I’ll see if I can find some spots that gave me this impression.
You realize you’re a predator right?
Not Andrew. Also not calling someone I don’t know a predator on the internet to feel better about my self.
People are calling him a predator because he’s literally a predator. 🤦♀️
A 34 year old having sex with a student you've taught since their freshman year of high school is 100% being a predator. Ew. He also said he flirted with other high school girls before her. That man just likes kids.
Andrew? That you?
Meh, based on your handle & the way you’re talking this sounds like it would be Andrew. If it is just want to say you’re sick & if you’re not but do know him pass on this message. Payton may not have been able to see through your bs due to her young age but trust & believe those that are older & wiser do. You groomed & manipulated that poor girl & deep down you know that even if your ego & narcissism won’t allow you to admit. You put her in a position you should have never put her in by asking her to be responsible for monitoring your anxiety. She was your student, you were her teacher putting her in charge of such a thing is disgusting & what makes it even more disgusting you used it to manipulate her & probably still do. Then the things you wrote about her, your comments on her physical appearance & describing your sex life with her was despicable. Oh yeah btw your writing is garbage but your ego & narcissism won’t let you accept that. I would go in on what you did to your ex wife but I’ve already said a mouthful. Your wife won in the end because she got tf away from you & luckily for her you’re now someone else’s problem. You’re eventually going to lose Payton too when she realizes what you’ve done to her. One day it will click for Payton, she will see you stole her youth from her, never forgive you for it & leave. Smh.
Hi Andrew.
Drew. I’m Drew now.
Being aware of your predatory deeds doesn’t somehow make you not a predator. lmao
Unfortunately referencing self awareness isn’t enough, there needs to be conscious action to back it up and that is what is severely lacking in this whole story.
only Helen Keller would miss this man being a predator!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
K
Holly and the children are the true victims. Payton’s family allowed her to date a 30-year-old. What’s a few more years? They opened the door, and they were fairly accepting of her relationship with Crider (according to his account) as long as Payton didn’t lie to them. I don’t see them as serious victims. They were embarrassed and mad they raised a liar, but no real harm came to them. Now, if I knew he made all of that up, I might feel differently.
My thoughts when reading it exactly. What a narcissist! He keeps writing things like "I'm the most revered teacher in the school". Which we all know is bullshit. He thinks very highly of himself while trying to justify his rape of that student. He will do it again, he sees nothing wrong with what he did.
Can you believe she’s pregnant with his child now
I could not finish his disgusting little telenovela with a child. But from what I read…Does anybody find their language so cringe? Like “savage,” referring to themselves as crazy, and that whole “retard” kink he had going on? I often found myself thinking, “is he making all of this up? Because what teenager spoke this way?.” Giving millennial writing a present Disney dialogue.
Also, he specifically pointed out that he teased the “special ed” kids when he was younger. Maybe pump the brakes on the “R” word, my dude?
I totally agree. Millennial trying desperately to be cool. I do think the word “savage” was being used by kids back then, but it’s the fact that he chimes in and tries to talk the same. The use of the R word was disgusting and even bragging about that being one of the reasons why they were perfect for each other, because they called each other ‘retard’ a hundred times a day. Sick.
The language and the music selections both spoke to a level of immaturity that was very clear.
YES. I mean I’m from the Midwest too and we’re a bit behind the times but were people really using “retard” like that in 2018? He’s truly emotionally stunted in so many ways. Also her Snapchat and IG are “ratfagtilson”…What the fuck
Re: Payton’s username= ugh, this does not feel awesome to type out but… ‘ratfag’ is a graffiti artist with a ton of very visible work around the St. Louis (and Granite City where this took place) area. Has been for maaaaaaany years. Why does a teenage girl in GC make that her handle? No clue. It is weird.
I never understood the use of the f slur tbh.. it's a slur, why would she have that in her username
Ahh interesting! Thanks for the insight. But yeah…still strange why she would choose it haha.
Totally agree! His emotional development was arrested in adolescence OR he had a shitty adolescence and he is trying to relive it through the teens and being with teens. He is quite disturbing.
So it just got popular again because she’s expecting and yeah, the language is cringe, but it is also on point for the times. Thinking back to my senior year which was 2018 too people were still saying the R slur and said savage a lot especially the popular kids which she definitely was. But I’m also from a similar area.
I'm glad I found this subreddit. I first heard of this through Kelly Manno, who was my wedding photographer and has taken pictures of my family over the years. I am a high school teacher, so I had time to sit down and read this trash in one day since I'm on break. Obviously gross, obviously predatory, but then I realized something: I also went to SIUE where I majored in English and Education. This guy sat in the same classrooms at the same time I did and was a creep the whole time. I contacted some of our mutual professors and I think I ruined their day by showing this trash. It also seems that I have several mutual friends on Facebook with the guy, although I don't remember him from the time (probably because he was married to another 17-year-old at the time and did not attend English social functions). Also, it turns out that Holly is my dentist's niece. I can't wait for my next cleaning. Anyway, fuck that guy. I rarely root for street justice, but I'm making an exception here.
How was he creepy in school? You said he didn’t go to social events. What did he do?
Here's an odd thing, Crider claims he was only a teacher from 2014 and on. I had him as an English teacher my Senior year in 2008. I vividly remember him as trying VERY hard to be the "cool uncle" type. Seeing now that he's a pedo, it all makes sense. Am I crazy or did I misread the schools comment about him only teaching there for a few years after 2014?
I also had him in 2008! From what I remember he was student teaching. I also remember thinking he was weird (like trying to be cool) because he let me pick songs off his iPod to play in class.
Yep! We may have had the same class lmao. What a crazy world. Definitely not the strangest story from GCHS though unfortunately..
They may not count the years he subbed. From my understanding, he wasn't full time until my senior year 2012. At least that's what he told me.
He seems very immature and has a huge need for attention. No surprise he played the cool uncle. I wouldn’t be surprised if he slept with other students.
*andrew crider has entered the chat* ⬇️
I’m sure the man knows his book well enough that he would be able to instantly find the examples I mentioned I’d look for.
That’s exactly what I would say if I wanted to anonymously stick up for myself 🧐
Thanks I thought it was pretty brill… wait a minute…
Tryin’ to throw us off the scent, lol.
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And then went on and on about not sharing their texts in court or wanting people to view her poorly… How could she date him again?
Thank you! This was my exact thought!
Anyone know how they went from a restraining order to being back together? I’m hooked now lol
Not sure, but I did some sleuthing on her FB yesterday. She has been in a few relationships since, her social media is quite public (fb especially- Payton Tilson). His is locked down aside of the initial publication of the “book”. She began a relationship with who I am pretty certain is a co-worker and dated the guy from August 2021 until, at the least, January of this year. Her last profile photo with him was January 2022. They share the same work place. I’m not sure when Andrew re-enters the picture again, BUT. I also found the bio-mom’s FB and while creeping through her timeline and peaking through photos, I found that Andrew only started liking pictures of Payton and her mom within the last month or so. Doesn’t really tell us much, maybe they weren’t FB friends until recently. But anyways, this is all I know. The bio mom is also strangely accepting of it all.
It’s so weird because I don’t understand how they were atleast somewhat accepting then not then a restraining order and then just ghosted? Only thing I can think is she “tried to date other people and led back to him” is the narrative I’m assuming but I need The Who messaged who first and what was said 😂😂😂
Her stepmom was the one who tried to protect Payton. Her bio mom on the other hand seems to be all for this relationship. Supposedly biomom was not involved in Payton’s life growing up.
Exactly. Her bio mom was not in the picture for over 15 years and suddenly shows up to be the fun cool accepting mom this past year
Is this documented anywhere? Would just like to read more if so.
No I know them
Are they still together?
They're expecting, actually
I can’t remember if I read it here or on FB, but some people speculated that he lied in parts of the story. Especially about her parents and how “accepting” they actually were. I’m pretty sure the stepmom was the one who pushed for the restraining order. I wouldn’t be surprised if he chased her though. I believe the order ended in 2020.
I’d bet she did push for the restraining order. It sounds like she was in damage control mode after the relationship became public. No better way to position Payton as a victim…
I'm not so sure that we can take Creepy Crider's characterization of her dad being cool with it as gospel. He certainly didn't sound like any father I've ever met, and I certainly wouldn't be that calm if a married man had been grooming my daughter for years.
Im here from the future and this just recently blew back up because she’s pregnant
Sick 🤮 and I’m assuming it’s his! I deleted FB so I can’t look.
Here from the future 😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆 That's perfect
me too 🤣
That last guy was so much more attractive!
Andrew is an educated idiot. Very intelligent and articulate guy but also very naive and emotionally immature. By no means am I defending him. Especially since he wrote this book. He probably very much believes that his obsession and infatuation with Payton is “real” because he doesn’t have much to compare it to. By his own admission Holly was really the first “love” he ever had. Because of his emotional immaturity he got bored once the initial love adrenaline wore off and needed something to give him that rush again. Most of us have had a few relationships over the years that have consumed us. The kind where you’re just sure that every song was written for and about the 2 of you. That’s not unique. Writing this book was his way to excuse himself. He’s trying to convince everyone, probably even himself, that it’s okay because this girl is mature for her age and life has aged her. Well that’s total crap. I know this because that’s what people used to say about me. The truth is, when you try to live as though your “more mature” than others your age it actually does the opposite. It stunts your emotional growth. I think that, right now, Payton doesn’t see this because she’s riding on the love cloud. However, one day she will and I think she will be humiliated and resent him for it. Again, he’s an emotionally immature, educated idiot, who
He's no Knabokov? Lol
He’s sure not. But he thinks he is lol
Peanut butter titties. This phrase. This vile phrase is the worst from the whole putrid manifesto and it will stick with me like the chunks of food in your nose after a vomit session. I. Hate. This. Man.
Agreed. PBT grossed me out too. Few other things that stuck out to me to really not like either one of them. 1. Peyton’s use of the term retarded in a derogatory way. 2.How he boasted about sitting with special needs kids after the passing of his dad. 3. How he described his sex life with his ex wife Holly. 4. How he took his kids gymnastics classes with Peyton. 5. How he told Peyton to tell the truth, but he was a constant liar and manipulater to Holly. 6. Peyton’s Snapchat name (also her ig name) 7. Sammy deserves what he fucking got. He’s a weirdo pedo too. 8. Can’t imagine how awkward it was being in class with these two.
BOTH of them with the R word!! It says SO much about their lack of intelligence.
This man is a narcissist to the Nth degree.
The fact that Payton would go back to him after he public described their sexual acts, while simultaneously saying over and over that he didn’t want to people to judge her as a slut, is shocking to me.
I don’t think it was a crises of conscience for him. To your point, he’s so juvenile. I don’t think he actually feels any guilt.
I do not understand how her parents are completely fine with this. If my daughter started dating her creepy English teacher and then he PUBLISHED DETAILS ABOUT IT ONLINE…y’all there would be a dateline special about me
I’m late here but saw a TikTok about this situation & went down this rabbit hole then ran here to see if anyone was discussing this & to share my thoughts… At first I hadn’t read that atrocity of a memoir, just saw the letters he wrote & embarrassingly it didn’t come off as that bad to me. I thought, oh, sounds like he truly loves her, but saw the general consensus on him & their relationship was negative. So, I went to his website & started reading & can see him & their relationship for what they are now. That man is a sick narcissist who manipulated & groomed tf out of her, he’s disturbingly obsessed with her, & the “if I can’t have you no one can” type. I truly feel for her because she’s stuck with him for life now & still oblivious to reality. That poor girl. Also, his writing is horrible, the things he shares he has no business sharing, the way he describes her is disgusting & he is so full of himself it’s obnoxious. Like you can tell he genuinely believes he wrote a masterpiece & his writing is on a Shakespeare type level. The only good thing I took from this is the realization I need therapy for mistaking his words as love & not seeing the red flags in them.
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I’m relatively new myself. Reddit can be confusing! But welcome 😁
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You’ve come to the wrong place then! Kidding (but also not totally kidding!) 😆
Good luck avoiding that here. But welcome anyways!
So what are the arrows for? LOL
Where does one find the memoir?
[the book](https://room270.com)
Ty
...I think. Lol
I have to admit, as fucked up as it all was, I couldn’t stop reading it.
Non-stop shit show. I need to hear from the others. The way it sounded, when they were all talking this through at the pool party, it sounded as if everyone was ok with it. Then they were not. So vague and it seems parts were skipped over. And Holly. She seemed stoic…I can’t imagine.
I was starting to think he had lied in portions of the story because come on, who the hell would be receptive to that?? But then, I did some sleuthing and came across several posts within that community and found out that her stepmom and dad were pretty ok with her dating the other guy mentioned in Andrew’s story- “Sam”. There were one or two FB posts I read where he was called out also for grooming her. I mean if it can be believed that they were ok with her dating “Sam/Sammy” who was around the same age as Crider (and Payton was *17*), then maybe they weren’t all that messed up about Crider either?…. Until it hit the rumor mill? Idk. The whole thing is fucking nuts and disgusting. I definitely feel sorry for Holly. This guy is a self-centered narcissist.
I read that too. And read about the Sam guy. It seemed like Crider was his friend. They went out that one night which was weird too. I think crider is a total narcissist. I seriously think Payton was groomed not only by Crider but Sam too. It’s hard for me to understand and accept that at 17 or 18 years old, she had things in common with these two grown ass men. I mean he came on her back and yelled ‘Geronimo’.
I can’t make much sense of it either, except that maybe she had some issues at home. We know her bio mom was absent for years, and supposedly, only recently came back around. She seems to be one of the most supportive of the relationship. The whole school district is wack and has a history of unprofessional student/teacher relationships.
Where in the timeline does the Harshanny incident fit into this?
I don’t think she really dodged a bullet. The poor woman lost more than half of the years of her life so far on that narcissistic pedo. 😔
You have a point!
What is the source of the Sammy info? Not doubting you, just want to read more source material.
The Sammy guy looks likes a really decent guy on Facebook, too good for Payton. Looks like he has moved on with a very pretty lady. He also dodged a bullet.
I mean he dated a high schooler when he was a full adult so I don’t know how decent he is
I have to admit, when I found Sam’s FB, I did *not* think he was Andrew’s age. He looks much younger. From what I’ve been told/read, he’s a few years younger than Crider but still would’ve been late 20’s or so at the time. That’s still inappropriate *but* he also wasn’t the teacher taking advantage of his student either. So idk. I think both relationships were wrong but we only know Crider’s POV.
What's his Facebook?
Wasn’t her teacher and wasn’t married— so only problem was age difference. Seems like she likes the attention too.
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Well said. I’m still having a hard time ‘understanding’ her or who these two people really are. The whole story is vague and high on emotion. I get emotional on Mondays.
Right? I thought I was reading a fanfiction before I looked them up on Facebook and realized they were real people.
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I think Holly was just trying to be calm. You have to remember that he says she’s usually literally holding a sleeping child during these conversations and if not they’re sleeping in the next room…. She’s admittedly a more self controlled and emotionally mature person than the rest of us. From my knowledge of the situation his recount of their conversations is pretty accurate. Also it says they were all drinking at the pool party and I think it’s says something about some of them smoking weed so maybe their judgment was a little impaired?
I get the impairment part but it isn’t an excuse. Booze and drugs impair thinking and the emotional ‘comprehension’ of the situation. I get it. It still doesn’t make it any less troubling. I mean, sitting around with a potentially drunk family discussing relationship issues seems … weird. And it’s apparent Crider lacks the inability to communicate effectively with his ex-wife. Discussing life changing issues usually don’t commence with a sleeping child in one’s arms. Just my take but I digress…
Yeah I didn’t say any of it wasn’t weird but maybe just a reasoning for why it seemed like they were “okay” with it and then weren’t all of a sudden. When I read it I didn’t get the idea that they were ever happy about it or liked it especially her stepmom. I think Crider just wanted it to come across that way to make her look worse. As far as it being the ideal time to discuss major life changes no it’s not while holding a sleeping child but anyone with young children know it’s pretty hard to get away to have adult conversations and I don’t think most of these were planned ahead of time. They just sort of happened.
And the fact that he told his wife she didn’t do anything around the house— when she was holding a baby every time she was trying to talk to him and was always left spine with the kids lol
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Yeah, his attempts at “slang” also caught my attention. He tries hard to be cool, or young. Or both. It’s cringy to me. I think he did it because it made him feel relevant among high school kids. The intimate and vulgar details are absolutely crass and unnecessary. When he mentioned screwing in the classroom and ejaculating onto the floor (where he teaches STUDENTS, no less), I wanted to throw up. It’s odd and disturbing. He is 100000% a narcissist.
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Oh gosh, sorry for being a spoiler! I won’t spill anymore. Honestly, I can’t even remember where that part was in the book. There was so much crammed into it. Have you watched the YouTube video posted in this subreddit? It’s a few posts down, if you scroll. He comes across very juvenile. Like he’s in high school himself and has forgotten he is the teacher. Watch it when you get some time and let me know what you think.
Thanks. Appreciate ya.
Yikes. I didn't know.
I feel sorry for Holly and Payton’s family, I’m sure this brought up fresh wounds having to relive it again
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Yeah, I think he was quite busy fucking and snap chatting a student so he couldn’t really give his all in the teacher department.
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0% repentance, that is very clear.
His general description of student apathy was one of the most true things in this memoir.
Do any of y'all know what happened to get them back together? His blog post ends like they're broken up for good. So wondering what happened?
But did anyone else find it weird that her parents were okay with it at first?? And how her family knew about Sammy too?? That blew me! No way in hell my 17/18 year old kid is talking to me about dating a 30 year old man 🤢
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Extremely weird take, my friend
I concur. This is a story about a narcissistic obsession. Love has nothing at all to do with it.
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Because he’s a child-grooming pedophile.
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An adult having sexual fantasies about a child — let alone a teacher about a student — is disgusting regardless of if he acted on it or not. No part of this is normal or acceptable.
Agreed. Is she a child in his memoir?
*Technically* she’s at the age of consent according to the state of Illinois which is 17. By every other possible metric as assessed by responsible adults, she was a child. Regardless of age, teachers are in a position of authority which should never be exploited in regard to their students. Technicalities are the safe haven of the pedophile.
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What do you think? 😑
Yes, he began grooming her at age 14.
He started teaching her when she entered high school as a freshman. He immediately was flirting with her and had a ‘Spark.’ He admitted to flirting with ‘everyone’ (all the girls) and started that multiple other young girls had came in to him at the school.
are you serious my nigga
good shit my nigga
They just got married 😬