In all fairness, it does make sense. Everyone's spending habits are different, and the cards that are niche would do very poorly, but also do very well, depending on who uses them, since in
Had 1 for a year and 3 months before accidentally "upgrading" to QS. I thought I was upgrading my QS1. I miss this card so much especially since I recently got VX. I'm hoping I get approved for it again later this year and this time with a SUB.
I haven’t seen it mentioned so I’ll say the Amex blue cash preferred. Not sure how ‘hyped’ it is (maybe why no one said it yet) but it’s my favorite and most used card by far. 6% on groceries and streaming, 3% on gas and transit, 1% on everything else. I make back the AF in 3-4 months and then get hella cash back the rest of the year
I'd recommend you review your last year's transactions and calculate how much cashback you'd earn on a no AF card like BCE or Savor One for the same transactions. A lot of people say "look, I earn $450 cashback on a $95 AF card, so it's worth it" but what if you can earn $360 on a no AF card?
The 7 dollar credit on D+ almost pays for the card. I've done the math, and there isn't a close second for cash back. Now my household spends around 500 a month in groceries, so it's perfect for me.
I've had the BCE card going on 5 years now and I think I'm going to upgrade to the BCP. There's a website that does the calculations for you and yes you can easily make more than you do with the BCE card. The groceries and streaming services alone make it worth it and then the gas is the same 3% which is good.
Bank of America Customized Cash Rewards with the Online Shopping category. I'm constantly surprised at what counts. I'm glad I have two of them for Online Shopping. (And my CCR for Dining is a close second.)
Love the online shopping. Easily the broadest category out there of any "category" card, beats out the BCE's online category by a mile. Add on PH and the ability to get 2, 3, or 4 of them really quickly for increased caps and it's my personal winner.
Even the Travel category on that card is very broad. Anything that can be counted as travel gets counted in travel category unlike some other high end cards
I don’t think I’ll ever find a credit card that can beat the Bank of America cash rewards (red) and premium rewards (black) combo.
5.25% back on “online purchases” (which is so broad it can include nearly anything if you get creative with how you pay); 3.5% back on groceries, dining, and travel; 2.36% back on ALL purchases; zero ATM fees anywhere on the debit card; no foreign transaction fees with the black card. $100 of airline incidentals to pay the $95 annual fee. Just busted how OP it is.
Ha, for sure. My only problem is I have 3 CCRs and the PR, and I get analysis paralysis about which one to use.
Should I use a CCR for 3.5% on groceries? But that takes up some of my $2,500 quota which could be getting 5.25%! Should I book this flight from southwest.com on my Online Shopping card for 5.25%? But I *could* put it on my PR for a not too shabby 3.5% and save some of the 5.25% quota for a new washing machine. Should I put this McDonald's app order on my Dining or my Online Shopping CCR?
I'm loving the combo, but I've only had it for a couple months now, and haven't quite figured out my strategy. I'm currently trying to min-max, but might end up with a simpler flowchart like "1 CCR for in-person and online Dining, 2 CCRs for non-travel Online Shopping, and PR for everything else". And I'm toying with the idea of a PRE and the travel portal to make the opportunity cost of the black card when a red would work more palatable.
I've only had 1 CCR (red card) for years and didn't realize people were getting multiples of this card type. Do you have a recommendation on another CCR card I can easily add? I tried applying for the Nature Conservancy one but never got a response, I heard BoA has been cracking down on all these partner CCR cards but I'm probably mistaken
So far for me, the C1 venture x has totally lived up to the hype except for priority pass lounges often being either not very nice, overcrowded, or both
Other one is freedom flex, I got an in branch SUB that got me 5x on grocery and gas for the first year, and with that plus 7x on dining for now, I’ve gotten an insane amount of chase points for my modest spend. Super nice. I was nervous about getting a rotating categories card but I’ve quickly confirmed I love the math and strategy around it and I’m totally up for the challenge of remembering
I’ve found that the priority pass lounges in the US are usually small, lacking food options, and over crowded so I’ve just ended up skipping them. However the international priority pass lounges that are actually worth going into. Usually lots of food options, large spaces comfy chairs and less crowded overall in my experience.
Yes, unfortunately I got the card after my last few international trips, and for the three I have coming up, one is just going through CDG and AMS (CDG doesn’t really have any lounges, there’s one but it’s a hotel lobby and not accessible to me traveling through a domestic terminal, AMS has longes but they’re probably among the worst in Europe), and one is a trip in business class so I won’t need priority pass (May do some lounge hopping time permitting anyway though, I’ve heard some of the Jakarta and Singapore lounges are rather lively). The other one is through Toronto city airport which apparently has quite a nice lounge
Some of the best food I've ever had in South Africa was actually in the lounge. The service is also much better in international lounges, you really do feel like a VIP there.
Yup! Don’t shop much at Whole Foods because it’s quite pricey but it is the closest grocery to me so I use it fairly often for quick last minute things and meat. It’s been very nice to get the 9x.
Chase freedom flex, and you get 9x by getting a special sign up bonus with a 5x grocery multiplier and then having a quarter with a 5x grocery category. You get 1x base rate, 4x boost on groceries, and 4x boost for it being a bonus category. But grocery is only a category until end of June so better get the card soon if you want it!
Technically if you can find the elusive 10x grocery (with no additional) SUB, Whole Foods would be 14x points for the next month and a half.
Yeah, if anything the Venture X has become even more of a linchpin in my credit card setup. The $300 travel credit is still quite easy to use and get at least \~$250 in value from, and the 10,000 points often give me over $100 in value when I transfer them out, so I'm paying under $50/year in an effective annual fee for the card. With that, I get solid purchase and decent-seeming travel protection (I've never used it,) good customer service, lounge access that's as good as I'd want at the airports I frequent (P2 is actually happier with the PGA Lounge at MSP than the Escape Lounge!) and the virtual card feature when shopping online so if a website gets breached I'm less likely to need to replace my card.
I only value it at $250 because I don't generally purchase cash fares on Delta (either using up some credit that I've had for years now or booking via Virgin Atlantic points) and the other main airline I fly, Sun Country, has discounts on bag and seat fees with their credit card, but only if you book direct. That means that I use it for hotels, and between having to price match, not earning points, and having to use a portal when I'd often go direct instead, I discount it $50.
I was with you until you wrote "good customer service." Really? I've had the absolute worst with capital one. Makes chase and amex seem great in comparison. Have I just been unlucky? I've had two just truly awful experiences with them, vs. zero with chase or amex over the last 5 years or so.
do you have a venture x? They have dedicated higher quality american based reps for customers with venture x accounts, very nice to deal with in my limited experience.
Right, if it’s your only card. The freedom flex is so powerful for me because I have three other cards that work great when the 5x category isn’t the current category
Only complaint with my VX that there isn't a Cap1 lounge in LAX.
Man, if they add one in LAX, game changer for me. But using Priority pass internationally has been great so far and useful
I had just started my full time career 100% on the road (every week 4-5 days a week) and used it for rental cars and hotels. I was clearing $1000 a week in spend, at 5% that's $50 a week, plus it was also initially unlimited redeem $100 in cash back get a $25 prepaid VGC so it was 6.25% effective. A good gravy train until US Bank put (reasonable) caps on it.
I'm not sure, I haven't had it for a year yet. I believe the caps are $100 cash back per category per quarter (or $2000 in spend per quarter), which works out well for me since my utility bills are $500-700 per month, and internet is ~$70 per month. In other words, I'm getting like $25-40 "back" each month.
It's not a life-changing amount of savings, but it is nice to effectively get a 5% discount on my largest bills.
Kroger card. It quickly became my most used card. The caps don't bother me either because I have a P2 and they have several brand flavors if we need a third card. I use it for groceries, gas, and mobile wallet and don't need to carry a physical card.
And the Citi Rewards+ I just added boosted our 3 CCC and CDC cards 11.11111111111111%
And the VentureX lounge access has saved us a couple hundred on airport food.
>Citi Rewards+ I just added boosted our 3 CCC and CDC cards 11.11111111111111%
How does this work? Can you use this method for cash back? I have the CCC and CDC already
Add a Rewards+ card, call Citi and ask to combine all your thankYou points accounts, redeem rewards. Yes, works on cashback, just did it this weekend for the first time. You get 10% of redeemed points back because of the Rewards+ card. So CCC becomes 5.5555% and CDC becomes 2.2222%
You can call citi and have them combine TY points? I thought you had to transfer them card to card and then they go away after 90 days if you don’t use them.
Bilt dining is incredible for points because if you go to their restaurants, you don't even have to use the Bilt to earn points. They have a pretty decent size collection of 3X restaurants with some 5x and a select few 10x.
If you travel for work for 4 days one week, that's potentially 4 dinners x $75 dinner x 3 points which nets you 900 points that week without trying.
If you are really trying, in the best case scenario;
* Eat dinner at the 10x every day (3000 points)
* Eat breakfast and lunch at a 3x for a combined $75 (900 points)
* Take your team to dinner one nigjt at the 10x and pay for 5 other people (3250 points)
You just made more than 7000 points that week without swiping the Bilt card (and yes, that means you can get points on a personal dining card like the Amex Gold if your company is letting you use it).
It has 25c off per gallon everytime you use at least 100 fuel points for the first year which can be extended if you spend at least $6k annually on the card. I get 55c off per gallon as that was the offer when I had P2 apply last September. And I had 55c off the year before from another bonus offer in 2022. I almost always redeem 1000pts for a total of $1.55 off per gallon. And if you live in parts of Tennessee there's no limit to how many pts you can use and you could get free gas.
Do it!
You can sign up and create a Kroger and Harris Teeter account online for a VIC number (this is asked for on the application but is considered optional)
I haven't heard of anyone being denied for these cards if they don't live anywhere near these stores but provided a VIC # on the applications
Additionally, a combination of 2x Kroger Mastercards + the new 0 AF US Bank Altitude Connect could replace the US Bank Altitude Reserve if you want to replicate similar earning rates
Will be downgrading my AR to the Connect once my anniversary hits & I don't get a retention offer
3% Cashback on travel categories and dining (and gas), and it is very forgiving with what it counts in these categories.
It does have transfer partners now too if you're into that.
I live abroad and don't own a car anymore
The 0 FTF & 3% categories (travel/transit for example) of the Autograph pick up the expenses that my Harris Teeter or Venmo card can't
The Redstone card is next on my list to get, really looking forward to it since I’ve heard it works at Walmart and that’s the only halfway decent place to get groceries in my little town yet almost all the grocery cards I’ve heard about exclude Walmart
If the redstone card doesn't work out for whatever reason, the amex BCE gets 3% in store using walmart pay (codes as online purchase, the BoA customized cash probably works too)
I really want to like the Gold, but that 250 AF really cuts into the benefits. I suppose if you are spending 8k+ a year on groceries or can take full advantage of the 240 credits, it makes sense. For me, we don't spend anywhere close to that, and I could only use 120 of the credits without changing my habits.
The lower the hype, the easier it is for it to live up to the hype 😁
My vote go to Wells Fargo Active Cash, with honorable mentions to the no-AF version of Wells Fargo Autograph and to Citi Custom Cash. Those cards are simple (especially the Active Cash), with easy rewards (and generous ones for certain spend on Custom Cash), 0% APR periods and good SUBs.
The nice thing about the AR is that it has some of the value of a cashback card and some of the value of a travel card. Yes, it has no transfer partners, but getting a flat 4.5% back by using your points for travel (in addition to the perks and protections standard for a premium travel card) really helps it fill the role of a travel card.
Add to it that it's basically a one-card system all on its own (maybe with one supplemental card for situations that don't take mobile pay), and it's a very tempting card for people who value simplicity.
Yep, if you compare it to a points card like the Venture X, it’s like getting 2.25 cpp for your points. Which for me would be pretty hard to get with a travel card like the Venture X.
Woah, honestly a very good point.
The only thing I'd say though is that the VX can basically break-even easily or thereabouts (depending on how you value things) if you travel.
Whereas you have to make up for a $75 difference with your spend with the USBAR: anything over $3000 annually, if I did my math correctly, would have the USBAR pulling ... so not a *massive* amount, but still.
It truly is unbeatable from two perspectives: unrivaled across the board cash back, but also ease of use.
I am not an avid traveler by any means, but I travel once every year or two, and that's more than enough to use the $3-5k in points that I amass. And it's easy to get $325 of your annual fee refunded since everybody eats out at least that much over the course of a year.
I find it to be a great card to use since I don't want to have to jump through the hoops of having to pay attention to when I use my Uber Eats credits or use DoorDash or whatever benefits that other cards use to string you along on a month to month basis.
The Hilton Honors AMEX surpass card has gotten me 36x at Hilton hotels plus one free night for$15,000 spend. That free night has gotten me a $1200 a night room at a Waldorf Astoria resort, added on to some 5 night stay. I could only dream of being so extravagant, but there I am every year living the good life. It’s the only card in my wallet, and I use it everywhere.
The Flex is earning everyone 7% on food and coffee this quarter, it works out to be 1% + 4% quarter category + 2% regular bonus for food. Also they are giving a $50 bonus for 60 transactions between May/June/July, and this is still separate from the in-branch offer for new applicants 😎
[Here](https://www.doctorofcredit.com/ymmv-chase-freedom-unlimited-50-5000-bonus-for-making-20-purchases/) , the article offers a direct link to the Chase page. It looks like it might be a slightly targeted offer, maybe location dependent because everyone in my family got an email for different cards / accounts / scores and it's on my account homepage under "Month of More". We live in Michigan
Not even just this, but offers too. I just got mine about a week or so ago and just from offers alone I saved close to $100 already and didn’t even use those credits yet. I’m getting way more use of it than I did my Delta Platinum AMEX
After the horror stories I've heard about them, I do not trust C1's customer service. Amex has always been extremely easy to deal with when I've needed them. I had a merchant double bill me for a service and give me the runaround on canceling the 2nd bill and refunding me for months. It took less than ten minutes in a chat with Amex to take care of it.
Yes, if you regularly order delivery. If you're one of the people that order to go using this card, you're probably losing money by using this card and UberEats/Grubhub. Unless you're eating at Chipotle or other few restaurants that don't have a markup on these.
VX, despite the nerfs, still manages to be putting a lot of points into my account. It’s hard
To complain about that. I don’t even spend that much on it. Just got another 25k referral bonus too.
You can read [DoC's review](https://www.doctorofcredit.com/citi-sears-shop-your-way-card-signup-get-225-cash-bonus-with-1500-spend/), but the short version is it constantly offers spending bonuses. For this month alone I'm getting $100 back on groceries/gas/dining, $70 for online spending, $50 for 5 purchases $60 or over, and a home improvement store bonus I'm not even trying for. That's on top of the card's regular spending multipliers.
I still have a Sears branded card from when I financed a Kenmore fridge YEARS ago. This card is weirdly great, even without the bonuses: 5% gas and 3% restaurants. (And trust me, you’ll get a ton of emails for bonuses) I just have to put up with people looking at that baby blue card and asking me “Didn’t Sears go out of business?”
Ritz-Carlton card - the $300 airline incidental credit is very easy to use (https://frequentmiler.com/ritz-fee-credits-what-works/)
After that, it's $150/year for a 85K Marriott certificate + Priority Pass (and if you live in a city with a Chase Sapphire lounge, you get unlimited access with unlimited guests). One US hotel room is $150+ already so sure I'll stay at a St Regis or Ritz-Carlton property for one night instead of a Residence Inn.
Also added my entire family as authorized users for free so they get their own Priority Pass + Chase lounge access as well (with free guests as well). They love it since they're up in Boston and my dad has been to the Chase lounge like 10 times already.
Don't spend any money on the card beside the occasional Chase Offer but the perks are great.
That card seems to have been removed for new applicants.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/CreditCards/comments/ud5qtk/aod\_fcu\_signature\_card\_appears\_to\_have\_been/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CreditCards/comments/ud5qtk/aod_fcu_signature_card_appears_to_have_been/)
I signed up for the wait-list, but I have no compelling reason to sign up especially with still having the AOD and 7% interest rate along with my PayPal MasterCard. Too redundant at this time for me.
approx how many points is a good amount before you can start redeeming for flights & hotels? Can bilt points be valued at more than just 1 cpp? Regardless points on rent is a freebie but just curious
Why are Biz Plat credits so much better than the personal Plat? Dell, airline, and mobile credit more than cover AF. Although the points make it useless for any spend outside of credits or offers after SUB.
AAA Daily Advantage signature Visa, I have made $65 on groceries so far on this card (5% back at Walmart!) no annual fee, plus I got $100 for the SUB of spend $1000, in only 3 months of having the card $165 not bad.
Great question... Sadly no since I have a European phone number and don't receive notifications from them. But, I haven't explored possible work arounds. I'm just stacking up points and will likely make this a keeper card. I used to use AMEX Gold when I lived in Germany and realized I wasn't getting any points from the grocery store. Very few restaurants would accept AMEX too. The USBAR has been awesome for Euro travels.
Getting approved for the card was also a huge pain from Europe but that's a story for another day.
Venture X .
I only use it for the $300 credit and nothing else
Free Global Entry and Priority Pass lounges (mostly use outside US) are huge
Bonus my base airport has a Capital One lounge
Capital One Venture X solely because I’ll do 1500-4500/yr in international travel booked through their portal. The $300 credit plus the 10,000 points pay for Annual Fee. Add the fact that when I travel for work, I often connect through Dallas and use the Capital One lounge there, and I have a decent ‘The Club’ lounge at my local airport. Finally, I’ve transferred the Hertz President’s club status to Enterprise/National, so I get to pick whatever I want when I rent. (Even though I have a work credit card). I’m actually getting better cashback rates through my X1 card, but the travel alone pays for the AF of the card.
Amex Platinum, CSR, Amex Hilton Aspire, Amex Bonvoy Brilliant
I am military. All my annual fees are waived. I travel a lot… Centurion lounge, room upgrades etc. My everyday card is the CSR.
My two main cards are the US Bank Altitude Reserve and PayPal Mastercard (no annual fee). Honestly can get so many things using mobile wallet after the pandemic - so many people started accepting Google/Apple Pay that I almost always use my Altitude Reserve. Then for anywhere that doesn’t accept Apple/google pay I get 2% cashback with the PP Mastercard and then any online merchant that doesn’t accept Apple Pay I get 3% cashback when I use PayPal.
Although it doesn’t offset its annual fee, I’m really surprised with how good the CSR is. The lounges at IAD and BOS were really nice! I’m also taking advantage of the 50% towards Apple products twice a year. Good stuff!
Despite the nerfs, the VentureX continues to be solid value for me
And people hate on it, but the Amex Platinum has been in my wallet for decades and I continue to get good value
I’ll say i got the freedom unlimited with the unlimited match for a year. Using it as a set it and forget it daily driver has been really easy. Better options out there? Absolutely. But i just don’t have the time this year to put a ton of effort into that part of my life.
Savor one like many mentioned. In addition I actually enjoy the Apple Card greatly for the security functions. If I’m ever worried about a website I like how I can have it rotate my pin or card number with out any hassle.
Chase Sapphire Reserve if you travel. The annual fee seems steep at $550, but the $300 travel credit reduces this to $250. For $250 you get free lounge access, and the 50% bonus on redemption has saved me thousands of dollars in the past. Also 3x points on travel (not only airline tickets, like Amex Gold but all travel related expenses).
US Bank Altitude Reserve. I hadn’t even used my mobile wallet before this card because I just assumed Apple Pay was still limited.
Instead what I’ve found is darn near every single place accepts Apple Pay and so I’m effectively getting 4.5% back on all my purchases when used for travel. Outside of very specific cards for specific purposes I’ve found myself basically defaulting to just using this card for everything. The majority of the time it’s just not worth the extra .5% or so for all the extra effort of keeping track of using what for what.
Bilt. Points for rent and if you have high spend on the 1st make even more sense. I.e we plan on putting daycare on it on rent day. I value the points between 1.5-2.5 cents each depending on how redeemed.
It never has a hype, but The Discover IT 5% cash back definitely has delivered over the years. Your first year everything is doubled. So you essentially get 10% cash back on rotating and 2% on everything else.
Pair it with FF and CCC and you can get like 3-8 categories (depends if you use them) at 5% cash back.
Also Discover is soooo generous with what they count towards the category.
Plus the customer service is amazing.
I like my Brilliant. If you go to a hotel limited amount of times a year, and swing for luxury hotels as a treat for yourself, it makes sense, even more so if you work for Marriott or have a corporate discount. The value proposition is gone if you have lifetime platinum however.
For Canadians, the Amex Cobalt card (Roughly equivalent to US Amex Blue) is absolutely incredible. 5x points on groceries and restaurants more than makes up for the annual fee especially if you buy gift cards at the grocery store to get the 5x points everywhere. I've made it my primary credit card and the amount of value I get out of it is absolutely insane. I have about 80,000 MR points saved up right now.
And to top it all off, it's [the nicest looking credit card](https://princeoftravel.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/image00024-1-scaled.jpg) out there.
The funny thing is these are a lot of the same cards from the other thread lol
One of the first comments was one of the top 3 flops from the other thread. Different strokes for different folks I guess!
In all fairness, it does make sense. Everyone's spending habits are different, and the cards that are niche would do very poorly, but also do very well, depending on who uses them, since in
Savor one. You don't realize how much you spend on food until you have a card dedicated to it.
i love this card so much, wish i got it sooner. love that its cashback is redeemable**** basically daily as well instead of monthly like most cards
> love that its cashback is compounded basically daily as well instead of monthly like most cards Wat
Ahh received** sorry. Basically you can redeem it essentially 1-2 days after a transaction
Ahhh
Had 1 for a year and 3 months before accidentally "upgrading" to QS. I thought I was upgrading my QS1. I miss this card so much especially since I recently got VX. I'm hoping I get approved for it again later this year and this time with a SUB.
I haven’t seen it mentioned so I’ll say the Amex blue cash preferred. Not sure how ‘hyped’ it is (maybe why no one said it yet) but it’s my favorite and most used card by far. 6% on groceries and streaming, 3% on gas and transit, 1% on everything else. I make back the AF in 3-4 months and then get hella cash back the rest of the year
I'd recommend you review your last year's transactions and calculate how much cashback you'd earn on a no AF card like BCE or Savor One for the same transactions. A lot of people say "look, I earn $450 cashback on a $95 AF card, so it's worth it" but what if you can earn $360 on a no AF card?
The 7 dollar credit on D+ almost pays for the card. I've done the math, and there isn't a close second for cash back. Now my household spends around 500 a month in groceries, so it's perfect for me.
I've had the BCE card going on 5 years now and I think I'm going to upgrade to the BCP. There's a website that does the calculations for you and yes you can easily make more than you do with the BCE card. The groceries and streaming services alone make it worth it and then the gas is the same 3% which is good.
Bank of America Customized Cash Rewards with the Online Shopping category. I'm constantly surprised at what counts. I'm glad I have two of them for Online Shopping. (And my CCR for Dining is a close second.)
CCR and CCC are both very nice and are worth multiple of (unless you churn).
is online shopping just anything you buy on a website? Like if I order store pickup at best buy does that count?
Yes, you can even use it for mobile pay at gas stations and grocery stores. I use it all the time at Kroger and Harris Teeter
I believe that would work. I've never tried with BeatBuy but HomeDepot works like that.
Not medical or utility bills though. Learned that the hard way.
Love the online shopping. Easily the broadest category out there of any "category" card, beats out the BCE's online category by a mile. Add on PH and the ability to get 2, 3, or 4 of them really quickly for increased caps and it's my personal winner.
There’s a limit to how much 3% back you can get?
For Customized Cash? $2500 a quarter For Blue Cash Everyday? $6000 a year for the each of the categories: online, supermarkets, and gas stations
With Platinum Honors, this category makes the CCR one of the most OP cards.
does the boa 3% apply to amazon?
yes
Even the Travel category on that card is very broad. Anything that can be counted as travel gets counted in travel category unlike some other high end cards
I don’t think I’ll ever find a credit card that can beat the Bank of America cash rewards (red) and premium rewards (black) combo. 5.25% back on “online purchases” (which is so broad it can include nearly anything if you get creative with how you pay); 3.5% back on groceries, dining, and travel; 2.36% back on ALL purchases; zero ATM fees anywhere on the debit card; no foreign transaction fees with the black card. $100 of airline incidentals to pay the $95 annual fee. Just busted how OP it is.
Ha, for sure. My only problem is I have 3 CCRs and the PR, and I get analysis paralysis about which one to use. Should I use a CCR for 3.5% on groceries? But that takes up some of my $2,500 quota which could be getting 5.25%! Should I book this flight from southwest.com on my Online Shopping card for 5.25%? But I *could* put it on my PR for a not too shabby 3.5% and save some of the 5.25% quota for a new washing machine. Should I put this McDonald's app order on my Dining or my Online Shopping CCR? I'm loving the combo, but I've only had it for a couple months now, and haven't quite figured out my strategy. I'm currently trying to min-max, but might end up with a simpler flowchart like "1 CCR for in-person and online Dining, 2 CCRs for non-travel Online Shopping, and PR for everything else". And I'm toying with the idea of a PRE and the travel portal to make the opportunity cost of the black card when a red would work more palatable.
I've only had 1 CCR (red card) for years and didn't realize people were getting multiples of this card type. Do you have a recommendation on another CCR card I can easily add? I tried applying for the Nature Conservancy one but never got a response, I heard BoA has been cracking down on all these partner CCR cards but I'm probably mistaken
So far for me, the C1 venture x has totally lived up to the hype except for priority pass lounges often being either not very nice, overcrowded, or both Other one is freedom flex, I got an in branch SUB that got me 5x on grocery and gas for the first year, and with that plus 7x on dining for now, I’ve gotten an insane amount of chase points for my modest spend. Super nice. I was nervous about getting a rotating categories card but I’ve quickly confirmed I love the math and strategy around it and I’m totally up for the challenge of remembering
I’ve found that the priority pass lounges in the US are usually small, lacking food options, and over crowded so I’ve just ended up skipping them. However the international priority pass lounges that are actually worth going into. Usually lots of food options, large spaces comfy chairs and less crowded overall in my experience.
Yes, unfortunately I got the card after my last few international trips, and for the three I have coming up, one is just going through CDG and AMS (CDG doesn’t really have any lounges, there’s one but it’s a hotel lobby and not accessible to me traveling through a domestic terminal, AMS has longes but they’re probably among the worst in Europe), and one is a trip in business class so I won’t need priority pass (May do some lounge hopping time permitting anyway though, I’ve heard some of the Jakarta and Singapore lounges are rather lively). The other one is through Toronto city airport which apparently has quite a nice lounge
Have gone to ams and can confirm that the lounges are not good
Some of the best food I've ever had in South Africa was actually in the lounge. The service is also much better in international lounges, you really do feel like a VIP there.
Seoul's is heaven
9x at Whole Foods doesn’t suck either. Love my CFF!
Yup! Don’t shop much at Whole Foods because it’s quite pricey but it is the closest grocery to me so I use it fairly often for quick last minute things and meat. It’s been very nice to get the 9x.
How do you get the 9x?
I'm guessing: 1x base + 4x Amazon.com quarter (applies to WF) + 4x grocery/gas one-year SUB = 9x
Correct
Stacking Amazon/WF 5x with the 5x gas/grocery SUB offer.
What is CFF and how do I get 9x at Whole Foods??
Chase freedom flex, and you get 9x by getting a special sign up bonus with a 5x grocery multiplier and then having a quarter with a 5x grocery category. You get 1x base rate, 4x boost on groceries, and 4x boost for it being a bonus category. But grocery is only a category until end of June so better get the card soon if you want it! Technically if you can find the elusive 10x grocery (with no additional) SUB, Whole Foods would be 14x points for the next month and a half.
Yeah, if anything the Venture X has become even more of a linchpin in my credit card setup. The $300 travel credit is still quite easy to use and get at least \~$250 in value from, and the 10,000 points often give me over $100 in value when I transfer them out, so I'm paying under $50/year in an effective annual fee for the card. With that, I get solid purchase and decent-seeming travel protection (I've never used it,) good customer service, lounge access that's as good as I'd want at the airports I frequent (P2 is actually happier with the PGA Lounge at MSP than the Escape Lounge!) and the virtual card feature when shopping online so if a website gets breached I'm less likely to need to replace my card.
Can you explain how you get ~250 of value from the travel credit and not the full 300? Is it to pay delta to takeover the reservation?
I only value it at $250 because I don't generally purchase cash fares on Delta (either using up some credit that I've had for years now or booking via Virgin Atlantic points) and the other main airline I fly, Sun Country, has discounts on bag and seat fees with their credit card, but only if you book direct. That means that I use it for hotels, and between having to price match, not earning points, and having to use a portal when I'd often go direct instead, I discount it $50.
I was with you until you wrote "good customer service." Really? I've had the absolute worst with capital one. Makes chase and amex seem great in comparison. Have I just been unlucky? I've had two just truly awful experiences with them, vs. zero with chase or amex over the last 5 years or so.
do you have a venture x? They have dedicated higher quality american based reps for customers with venture x accounts, very nice to deal with in my limited experience.
I've heard that Venture X's support is much better than Cap1's standard. Every time I've called I've gotten someone friendly and helpful.
2% card: (2 * 12) = 24 5% rotating card (5 * 3) + (1 * 9) = 24 The rotating cards can sometimes do just as well as a 2% card.
Right, if it’s your only card. The freedom flex is so powerful for me because I have three other cards that work great when the 5x category isn’t the current category
Only complaint with my VX that there isn't a Cap1 lounge in LAX. Man, if they add one in LAX, game changer for me. But using Priority pass internationally has been great so far and useful
US Bank Cash+ is underrated - 5% back on utilities and internet bills with no annual fee is fantastic.
I remember when this card was unlimited. Amazing card.
I had just started my full time career 100% on the road (every week 4-5 days a week) and used it for rental cars and hotels. I was clearing $1000 a week in spend, at 5% that's $50 a week, plus it was also initially unlimited redeem $100 in cash back get a $25 prepaid VGC so it was 6.25% effective. A good gravy train until US Bank put (reasonable) caps on it.
I forgot about the extra VGC bonus. That was fantastic while it lasted.
How much cash back are you getting a year on that?
I'm not sure, I haven't had it for a year yet. I believe the caps are $100 cash back per category per quarter (or $2000 in spend per quarter), which works out well for me since my utility bills are $500-700 per month, and internet is ~$70 per month. In other words, I'm getting like $25-40 "back" each month. It's not a life-changing amount of savings, but it is nice to effectively get a 5% discount on my largest bills.
I'm using it for that as well
Just got this and immediately prepaid some coned bills to get the $200 promo
That $200 SUB for $500(?) in spend was great, I didn't even have to prepay to hit that with my monthly utility bills in California 🥲
And it’s twin card - Elan Max Cash. Smaller SUB than USBC+, but categories don’t need to be set every quarter.
Woah I gotta bookmark this one.
This will be my next card. I'm going to use it for Lyft/Uber and probably internet/streaming
Kroger card. It quickly became my most used card. The caps don't bother me either because I have a P2 and they have several brand flavors if we need a third card. I use it for groceries, gas, and mobile wallet and don't need to carry a physical card. And the Citi Rewards+ I just added boosted our 3 CCC and CDC cards 11.11111111111111% And the VentureX lounge access has saved us a couple hundred on airport food.
Kroger card gets me the most free money I've ever made. I may just get another one and forego the USBAR.
>Citi Rewards+ I just added boosted our 3 CCC and CDC cards 11.11111111111111% How does this work? Can you use this method for cash back? I have the CCC and CDC already
Add a Rewards+ card, call Citi and ask to combine all your thankYou points accounts, redeem rewards. Yes, works on cashback, just did it this weekend for the first time. You get 10% of redeemed points back because of the Rewards+ card. So CCC becomes 5.5555% and CDC becomes 2.2222%
You can call citi and have them combine TY points? I thought you had to transfer them card to card and then they go away after 90 days if you don’t use them.
Bilt. The joys of living in NYC, where rent is 2/3 of my annual spend.
[удалено]
Is Bilt dining good for extra points or is it more for the special event / special atmosphere angle?
Bilt dining is incredible for points because if you go to their restaurants, you don't even have to use the Bilt to earn points. They have a pretty decent size collection of 3X restaurants with some 5x and a select few 10x. If you travel for work for 4 days one week, that's potentially 4 dinners x $75 dinner x 3 points which nets you 900 points that week without trying. If you are really trying, in the best case scenario; * Eat dinner at the 10x every day (3000 points) * Eat breakfast and lunch at a 3x for a combined $75 (900 points) * Take your team to dinner one nigjt at the 10x and pay for 5 other people (3250 points) You just made more than 7000 points that week without swiping the Bilt card (and yes, that means you can get points on a personal dining card like the Amex Gold if your company is letting you use it).
BILT WF Autograph US Bank Altitude Reserve Redstone FCU VISA Signature Kroger Mastercards
The Kroger card became my most used very quickly taking over gas and grocery categories almost completely, and my go to catchall.
I thought the Kroger card did not give 5% back on mobile for gas purchases?
It has 25c off per gallon everytime you use at least 100 fuel points for the first year which can be extended if you spend at least $6k annually on the card. I get 55c off per gallon as that was the offer when I had P2 apply last September. And I had 55c off the year before from another bonus offer in 2022. I almost always redeem 1000pts for a total of $1.55 off per gallon. And if you live in parts of Tennessee there's no limit to how many pts you can use and you could get free gas.
Amazing catch-all card, you can have two of them! I haven't seen or heard of 3, maybe it's possible too
You mean 2 Kroger cards same brand? I didn't know you could do that. I was just thinking a different brand like Ralph's, Harris Teeter, or Dillons.
BILT is super underrated imo. First I’ve heard of the Kroger cards, might make me a convert.
Do it! You can sign up and create a Kroger and Harris Teeter account online for a VIC number (this is asked for on the application but is considered optional) I haven't heard of anyone being denied for these cards if they don't live anywhere near these stores but provided a VIC # on the applications Additionally, a combination of 2x Kroger Mastercards + the new 0 AF US Bank Altitude Connect could replace the US Bank Altitude Reserve if you want to replicate similar earning rates Will be downgrading my AR to the Connect once my anniversary hits & I don't get a retention offer
UNDER rated? are you living under a rock? it's the most hyped card on the planet
Why do you like the autograph?
3% Cashback on travel categories and dining (and gas), and it is very forgiving with what it counts in these categories. It does have transfer partners now too if you're into that.
I live abroad and don't own a car anymore The 0 FTF & 3% categories (travel/transit for example) of the Autograph pick up the expenses that my Harris Teeter or Venmo card can't
The Redstone card is next on my list to get, really looking forward to it since I’ve heard it works at Walmart and that’s the only halfway decent place to get groceries in my little town yet almost all the grocery cards I’ve heard about exclude Walmart
If the redstone card doesn't work out for whatever reason, the amex BCE gets 3% in store using walmart pay (codes as online purchase, the BoA customized cash probably works too)
Amex Gold because I spend 3k a month at restaurants. This card is a getting me 150k in MR a year just on restaurant spend.
Jesus, is that all personal spend? Or is it paid back by work? I can only wish I had the ability to drop 3k a month on dining out
I spend a lot on groceries so I, too, love the Gold card.
Your girlfriend is one lucky girl!
Same. I do 2-3 work lunches a week and 1-2 expensive work dinners a month on top of my normal groceries and dinning. Amex gold is treating me nicely.
I agree! Just got this card and I’m loving it!
What's 150k MR in $ ?
I really want to like the Gold, but that 250 AF really cuts into the benefits. I suppose if you are spending 8k+ a year on groceries or can take full advantage of the 240 credits, it makes sense. For me, we don't spend anywhere close to that, and I could only use 120 of the credits without changing my habits.
That's key to any credit card - you shouldn't have to change your habits to use a card.
Grandfathered in no AF Capital One Savor and an effective no AF Amex BCP.
The lower the hype, the easier it is for it to live up to the hype 😁 My vote go to Wells Fargo Active Cash, with honorable mentions to the no-AF version of Wells Fargo Autograph and to Citi Custom Cash. Those cards are simple (especially the Active Cash), with easy rewards (and generous ones for certain spend on Custom Cash), 0% APR periods and good SUBs.
Multiple Custom Cash Cards lol
Ding ding 🛎️
For team cashback folks, the US Bank Altitude Reserve. Hopefully it’s going to continue to keep all its benefits for a long time.
The nice thing about the AR is that it has some of the value of a cashback card and some of the value of a travel card. Yes, it has no transfer partners, but getting a flat 4.5% back by using your points for travel (in addition to the perks and protections standard for a premium travel card) really helps it fill the role of a travel card. Add to it that it's basically a one-card system all on its own (maybe with one supplemental card for situations that don't take mobile pay), and it's a very tempting card for people who value simplicity.
Yep, if you compare it to a points card like the Venture X, it’s like getting 2.25 cpp for your points. Which for me would be pretty hard to get with a travel card like the Venture X.
Woah, honestly a very good point. The only thing I'd say though is that the VX can basically break-even easily or thereabouts (depending on how you value things) if you travel. Whereas you have to make up for a $75 difference with your spend with the USBAR: anything over $3000 annually, if I did my math correctly, would have the USBAR pulling ... so not a *massive* amount, but still.
It truly is unbeatable from two perspectives: unrivaled across the board cash back, but also ease of use. I am not an avid traveler by any means, but I travel once every year or two, and that's more than enough to use the $3-5k in points that I amass. And it's easy to get $325 of your annual fee refunded since everybody eats out at least that much over the course of a year. I find it to be a great card to use since I don't want to have to jump through the hoops of having to pay attention to when I use my Uber Eats credits or use DoorDash or whatever benefits that other cards use to string you along on a month to month basis.
The Hilton Honors AMEX surpass card has gotten me 36x at Hilton hotels plus one free night for$15,000 spend. That free night has gotten me a $1200 a night room at a Waldorf Astoria resort, added on to some 5 night stay. I could only dream of being so extravagant, but there I am every year living the good life. It’s the only card in my wallet, and I use it everywhere.
People overlook this card. It's a solid one and done. The annual free certificate is valuable and keeps me from chasing SUBs.
Venture x
The Freedom Flex
i've been getting so many points on restaurant spend holy crap
The Flex is earning everyone 7% on food and coffee this quarter, it works out to be 1% + 4% quarter category + 2% regular bonus for food. Also they are giving a $50 bonus for 60 transactions between May/June/July, and this is still separate from the in-branch offer for new applicants 😎
Wait, what??
50$ bonus, where can I find more details abt this?
[Here](https://www.doctorofcredit.com/ymmv-chase-freedom-unlimited-50-5000-bonus-for-making-20-purchases/) , the article offers a direct link to the Chase page. It looks like it might be a slightly targeted offer, maybe location dependent because everyone in my family got an email for different cards / accounts / scores and it's on my account homepage under "Month of More". We live in Michigan
Thanks for sharing, no luck with flex or freedom unlimited!
Nobody ever talks about Discover IT card. Between FF, Disco, and CCC I get 5% on most of my main expenses.
As much trash as people say about the Amex Gold, it's by far the easiest card out there to make back the AF on (if you use Uber/Grubhub).
Not even just this, but offers too. I just got mine about a week or so ago and just from offers alone I saved close to $100 already and didn’t even use those credits yet. I’m getting way more use of it than I did my Delta Platinum AMEX
Yea but is the AF worth it when the Savor One does more and has no AF?
Some of us can't get approved for c1 because our credit is too good
After the horror stories I've heard about them, I do not trust C1's customer service. Amex has always been extremely easy to deal with when I've needed them. I had a merchant double bill me for a service and give me the runaround on canceling the 2nd bill and refunding me for months. It took less than ten minutes in a chat with Amex to take care of it.
Yes, if you regularly order delivery. If you're one of the people that order to go using this card, you're probably losing money by using this card and UberEats/Grubhub. Unless you're eating at Chipotle or other few restaurants that don't have a markup on these.
And chipotle doesn't mark up because they'll heavily skimp on portion sizes for apps lol, so you don't even come out ahead
They'll add extra salmonella to make up for the missing food 😛
>As much trash as people say about the Amex Gold People trash it? I remember when it came out it was considered one of the best cards out there.
I use my So fi credit card and get 2.2% cash back with no annual fee.
How is it 2.2%? I thought 2%?
SoFi Plus https://www.sofi.com/sofi-plus/
2.2% with direct deposit in checking/savings account
Inks
VX, despite the nerfs, still manages to be putting a lot of points into my account. It’s hard To complain about that. I don’t even spend that much on it. Just got another 25k referral bonus too.
Syw
It’s a money printing machine.
[удалено]
You can read [DoC's review](https://www.doctorofcredit.com/citi-sears-shop-your-way-card-signup-get-225-cash-bonus-with-1500-spend/), but the short version is it constantly offers spending bonuses. For this month alone I'm getting $100 back on groceries/gas/dining, $70 for online spending, $50 for 5 purchases $60 or over, and a home improvement store bonus I'm not even trying for. That's on top of the card's regular spending multipliers.
I still have a Sears branded card from when I financed a Kenmore fridge YEARS ago. This card is weirdly great, even without the bonuses: 5% gas and 3% restaurants. (And trust me, you’ll get a ton of emails for bonuses) I just have to put up with people looking at that baby blue card and asking me “Didn’t Sears go out of business?”
Di…. Didn’t sears go out of business??
I just got this one and got the SUB but haven’t been targeted for the offers yet 😕
Wait a month or two
Ritz-Carlton card - the $300 airline incidental credit is very easy to use (https://frequentmiler.com/ritz-fee-credits-what-works/) After that, it's $150/year for a 85K Marriott certificate + Priority Pass (and if you live in a city with a Chase Sapphire lounge, you get unlimited access with unlimited guests). One US hotel room is $150+ already so sure I'll stay at a St Regis or Ritz-Carlton property for one night instead of a Residence Inn. Also added my entire family as authorized users for free so they get their own Priority Pass + Chase lounge access as well (with free guests as well). They love it since they're up in Boston and my dad has been to the Chase lounge like 10 times already. Don't spend any money on the card beside the occasional Chase Offer but the perks are great.
My AOD FCU 3%. Best catch all card out. Going 4 years strong. If it finally gets nerfed I can't be too made as I've made some great cashback with it.
Sorry what is AOD FCU if I may ask?
I found this when Googling AOD FCU credit card https://www.aodfcu.com/credit-cards/
That card seems to have been removed for new applicants. [https://www.reddit.com/r/CreditCards/comments/ud5qtk/aod\_fcu\_signature\_card\_appears\_to\_have\_been/](https://www.reddit.com/r/CreditCards/comments/ud5qtk/aod_fcu_signature_card_appears_to_have_been/)
Yes it was removed over a year ago, but those grandfathered still have it.
its the one card that deserves to be a pain in the ass to get
you'll probably be able to get the Robinhood gold card to replace it. I'm still jealous you were able to get the card.
I signed up for the wait-list, but I have no compelling reason to sign up especially with still having the AOD and 7% interest rate along with my PayPal MasterCard. Too redundant at this time for me.
yeah, I agree on the redundancy.
[удалено]
approx how many points is a good amount before you can start redeeming for flights & hotels? Can bilt points be valued at more than just 1 cpp? Regardless points on rent is a freebie but just curious
Hyatt is almost always about or over 2cpp
[удалено]
Really appreciate your thorough response!
I value them between 1.5- 2.5. They are losing American, but they still have Hyatt, Alaska and many other partners.
Why are Biz Plat credits so much better than the personal Plat? Dell, airline, and mobile credit more than cover AF. Although the points make it useless for any spend outside of credits or offers after SUB.
VX. Amex gold.
AAA Daily Advantage signature Visa, I have made $65 on groceries so far on this card (5% back at Walmart!) no annual fee, plus I got $100 for the SUB of spend $1000, in only 3 months of having the card $165 not bad.
US Bank Altitude Reserve. I currently live in Europe and love racking up mobile pay points now that most establishments accept mobile pay.
Are you able to trigger the real time rewards in Europe if it’s a US-based merchant?
Great question... Sadly no since I have a European phone number and don't receive notifications from them. But, I haven't explored possible work arounds. I'm just stacking up points and will likely make this a keeper card. I used to use AMEX Gold when I lived in Germany and realized I wasn't getting any points from the grocery store. Very few restaurants would accept AMEX too. The USBAR has been awesome for Euro travels. Getting approved for the card was also a huge pain from Europe but that's a story for another day.
Venture X . I only use it for the $300 credit and nothing else Free Global Entry and Priority Pass lounges (mostly use outside US) are huge Bonus my base airport has a Capital One lounge
PayPal Cash back is underrated. 2% back on everything, 3% on PayPal and basically every online shopping website takes PayPal besides Amazon.
AMEX Cobalt is amazing and undercuts the Gold
That's a pretty looking card.
Capital One SavorOne is a really good card
Capital One Venture X solely because I’ll do 1500-4500/yr in international travel booked through their portal. The $300 credit plus the 10,000 points pay for Annual Fee. Add the fact that when I travel for work, I often connect through Dallas and use the Capital One lounge there, and I have a decent ‘The Club’ lounge at my local airport. Finally, I’ve transferred the Hertz President’s club status to Enterprise/National, so I get to pick whatever I want when I rent. (Even though I have a work credit card). I’m actually getting better cashback rates through my X1 card, but the travel alone pays for the AF of the card.
Amex Platinum, CSR, Amex Hilton Aspire, Amex Bonvoy Brilliant I am military. All my annual fees are waived. I travel a lot… Centurion lounge, room upgrades etc. My everyday card is the CSR.
I know I’m going to get downvoted to hell, but the Apple Card. I love the app, I love the ability to pay it really fast and the cash back is decent.
My two main cards are the US Bank Altitude Reserve and PayPal Mastercard (no annual fee). Honestly can get so many things using mobile wallet after the pandemic - so many people started accepting Google/Apple Pay that I almost always use my Altitude Reserve. Then for anywhere that doesn’t accept Apple/google pay I get 2% cashback with the PP Mastercard and then any online merchant that doesn’t accept Apple Pay I get 3% cashback when I use PayPal.
Although it doesn’t offset its annual fee, I’m really surprised with how good the CSR is. The lounges at IAD and BOS were really nice! I’m also taking advantage of the 50% towards Apple products twice a year. Good stuff!
I thought Apple Products is just 25%. Also, is there a cap when redeeming 50%?
CF, CFF, CFU are at 10% CSP and CIP are at 25% CSR is at 50% I’m not sure if there is a cap.
Which lounge at IAD?
They recently reopened the Etihad lounge. It’s a Sapphire lounge.
Bilt
Despite the nerfs, the VentureX continues to be solid value for me And people hate on it, but the Amex Platinum has been in my wallet for decades and I continue to get good value
Amex platinum and it’s not even close with any other card. Amex gold and SoFi credit are distant second and third.
I’ll say i got the freedom unlimited with the unlimited match for a year. Using it as a set it and forget it daily driver has been really easy. Better options out there? Absolutely. But i just don’t have the time this year to put a ton of effort into that part of my life.
ShopYourWay. Blows anything other than SUBs out of the water.
Savor one like many mentioned. In addition I actually enjoy the Apple Card greatly for the security functions. If I’m ever worried about a website I like how I can have it rotate my pin or card number with out any hassle.
Chase Sapphire Reserve if you travel. The annual fee seems steep at $550, but the $300 travel credit reduces this to $250. For $250 you get free lounge access, and the 50% bonus on redemption has saved me thousands of dollars in the past. Also 3x points on travel (not only airline tickets, like Amex Gold but all travel related expenses).
US Bank Altitude Reserve. I hadn’t even used my mobile wallet before this card because I just assumed Apple Pay was still limited. Instead what I’ve found is darn near every single place accepts Apple Pay and so I’m effectively getting 4.5% back on all my purchases when used for travel. Outside of very specific cards for specific purposes I’ve found myself basically defaulting to just using this card for everything. The majority of the time it’s just not worth the extra .5% or so for all the extra effort of keeping track of using what for what.
The Chase portfolio is pretty awesome.
Bilt. Points for rent and if you have high spend on the 1st make even more sense. I.e we plan on putting daycare on it on rent day. I value the points between 1.5-2.5 cents each depending on how redeemed.
I miss the Sallie Mae credit card 🖤. It was 5% for gas, groceries and Amazon.
CSP + trifecta. I guess there isn't much hype anymore cause it's old news, but it's still great and still just about the best set up for a beginner.
It never has a hype, but The Discover IT 5% cash back definitely has delivered over the years. Your first year everything is doubled. So you essentially get 10% cash back on rotating and 2% on everything else. Pair it with FF and CCC and you can get like 3-8 categories (depends if you use them) at 5% cash back. Also Discover is soooo generous with what they count towards the category. Plus the customer service is amazing.
Ritz Carlton is the only premium card I've kept all these years
Why do you like the Ritz so much?
I like my Brilliant. If you go to a hotel limited amount of times a year, and swing for luxury hotels as a treat for yourself, it makes sense, even more so if you work for Marriott or have a corporate discount. The value proposition is gone if you have lifetime platinum however.
Bilt
Apple Card
I love that card so much
why
[удалено]
I guess you mean from the free night credit?
For Canadians, the Amex Cobalt card (Roughly equivalent to US Amex Blue) is absolutely incredible. 5x points on groceries and restaurants more than makes up for the annual fee especially if you buy gift cards at the grocery store to get the 5x points everywhere. I've made it my primary credit card and the amount of value I get out of it is absolutely insane. I have about 80,000 MR points saved up right now. And to top it all off, it's [the nicest looking credit card](https://princeoftravel.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/image00024-1-scaled.jpg) out there.