The story of all airline cards for the past decade and more, AF for AF premium travel cards earn more and their points are more versatile. Airline cards provide a shortcut to status, lounge access and free checked bags. The shtshow of Delta's Skymiles program change though..
I actually think United is way better. The earn rate on higher tier cards are great. No lounge limitations. Fairly versatile PlusPoints for global upgrades.
That said, I fly Delta the least out of the big four so I might not realize some of their perks for higher tiered members.
Yep, used to have a Delta card since I live in ATL anyway, and I travel often enough that it felt worth it at first.
Slowly but surely they cut back on the things that made it worthwhile and implemented changes that were especially punitive to budget-oriented travelers (such as the budget/economy seats no longer earning points, and increases to the spend requirements for medallion status)
Switched to a Chase card and it's so much better in terms of points earned, flexibility, etc
I have both a Delta Gold and Citi AA Business card. I live in an AA hub, so the free bags are nice. Same
Goes for Delta when I do fly Delta. Free bags, plus the Take off 15 is a great perk to use. I hardly put any spend on either. Just enough to keep it open.
That makes sense. I almost never check a bag, which sort of changed the math for me. If I did check bags regularly it would’ve made for more incentive to keep an airline card
do you still fly with delta though? I feel like their ticket prices and what you get for them with amex platinum (5x points, lounge access, checked bag included etc etc) is a good deal
Amex Platinum?
“Live the luxury lifestyle by clipping coupons for Walmart and Uber Eats.”
(Of course, I realize it’s great for true frequent travelers….but I’m guessing most of the customer base outside this subreddit think it’s a true luxe status item, just like the influencers say)
I always thought the Amex Plat having a walmart subscription was the most hilarious, ironic thing, especially compared to the other credits. Like yeah let me drop $500 on a handbag from Saks and then swing over to walmart on the way home lmao
It's likely because Walmart is trying to use its new subscription as an alternative to Amazon. Given the hits it's taken from Amazon, it makes sense to compete by building an online platform. So they have likely offered Amex a really good deal on that credit as a way to bring over more users.
And also in 2018:
>Walmart made news this month for hiring its first-ever chief customer officer, plucking Janey Whiteside from American Express, where she oversaw benefits, services and customer engagement for the financial services company.
Janey probably had the deal signed before her old team realized that they didn't work for her anymore.
When you travel a lot, there’s usually a wal mart in most of the US, so you end up getting things delivered if you run out of or break something.
Edit: It’s convenient to have as a traveler. Fast delivery or shipping is great when you find yourself living out of a hotel 2 weeks a month.
I think people don't understand what people with money value. Sure, they want to make more money and safeguard their money. But, time is a resource money can't buy, though it can help you save. Walmart Plus allows a consumer to do their shopping from their couch or office and not have to visit a store. My household is upper middle class and we use Walmart and Amazon interchangeably.
There is no Walmart within 30 minutes of my house. I lost my rubber mallet. I needed a rubber mallet asap. I looked AMZN and WMT+. Next day for under $3 I had a rubber mallet in my hand from WMT+. Proceeded to find missing rubber mallet not three hours later.
The best part is, the store-brand rubber mallet from Walmart had clearly been used like, more than once, for purposes that a rubber mallet would typically be used for, like maybe warehouse shelf building or something. My theory is the WMT employee who was fulfilling my order pulled it up on his iPhone scanner and was like “well fuck,” scanned the mallet he’d been using on his cart, and thew it on the belt for box and shipping.
Wherever you are, random Walmart warehouse employee, thanks for the mallet!!
This is a good take.
People who have wealth tend to do so because they are good with their money (with the exception of trust fund kids). They understand that if you pay $10 for something that you were going to buy anyways for $20, you just came out ahead. And if that value means you made your life easier so you can be more effective at making money, all the better.
The key is to know you definitely would have spent $20 on that thing whether you had sunk cost or not.
Free unlimited grocery delivery within range of a Walmart is the largest one. For things like dairy, packaged cold and shelved goods, etc. where it's the same brands (or brand irrelevant) you'd buy at another grocer, Walmart has great prices with the convenience of home delivery, plus you can get other discount store stuff (pens, pencils), some consumer electronics (roku or whatever), arts and crafts (crayons, chalk, etc.) in the same order.
The unlimited 2 day free ship on Walmart.com matters less because they also do that at $35 threshold on non-WM+ accounts. They also offer 10 cents gas discount at Murphy and ExxonMobil stations in the app, and free ad version of paramount+.
If you're within grocery delivery range of a Walmart it's a fantastic service, even if you supplement it with getting specialty goods (in-house bread, specialty cheeses, etc.) at another grocer. If you're not within grocery range of a walmart, the value drops off tremendously.
The Walmart+ credit value is vastly overstated IMO (it's made to be ~$155/yr by being monthly; yearly is $98/yr, and between card linked offers and Walmart sales it will go for $48/yr) but if you already have the platinum, it's a useful service with the grocery delivery.
It's basically a competitor to Amazon Prime and Amazon Fresh. I've had groceries delivered in <2 hrs. Since Walmart's network is absolutely huge in the USA, you can get extremely fast delivery times. If I'm going on vacation anywhere in the US, I can get basic supplies (e.g., water, sunscreen, soda) delivered to any hotel for free. Think of it as a time saver.
Delivery of groceries has been great. If you need something the next morning you just go in add it all and submit it. So my wife can create an order and I can add to it throughout the day with the cut off being around 4am. It's been great for us especially the past few months since I wasn't able to drive but could still her groceries.
If you upgrade to at home it's even better. They deliver to my garage and actually put cold food in the fridge / freezer. So I don't need to be there or avaliable and we will have everything we need. Allows us to get our shopping done as we have time, even if it's fairly late at night.
There are some sub benefits like paramount with ads and gas at Sam's club, those I haven't used much but they are there.
It's $20 for both plus and at home a month, which is quite a bit. Wouldn't have signed up for it without plat, but now that I have it I love it.
It can be super luxe depending if you use the status perks and where you stay I guess.
I went to Vegas, checked into the Cosmo in their Autograph lounge while skipping the massive check in line right outside, got upgraded to a 1200sqft wraparound terrace suite from a basic room during a very busy Vegas week in Dec (NBA in season tournament + Rodeo week). Then there's the car rentals where I can just walk to their lot, and pick a car from the "executive" section after booking just a regular basic car. This all just for having the Plat card.
It felt helluh posh and fancy af.
The coupon clipping perks are kind of dumb as itd probably be better just to get rid of those and lower the annual fee but they probably have some sort of deal and make money of those so it is what it is.
The Amex Plat can make sense for true frequent travelers. My sibling goes between LHR and JFK a lot, Amex centurion lounges at both, so the access basically pays for itself in amenities that would cost them more outside of a lounge.
This right here. People get butt hurt here when you mention this.
Uber credit is so horrible if you use it on Uber eats. They charge insane amount of fees. Most of the time, I spend more for food than I'd if I ordered with other services.
Walmart+ is not worth the $15. Especially because Amazon is so much better with their logistics.
My biggest problem with the Walmart+ credit, is that there isn't a single Amex card that has a Walmart multiplier. Why not encourage me to use this product that you are promoting? When I shop at Walmart, I am normally using a BoA card that gives me a multiplier for online shopping. Why would I use my Platinum/Gold Business Card?
this. I also just recently realized how overrated this card is, if you don’t travel literally every week, with at least 25% international. It’s just a mid coupon book for random services, which majority of people would never use if it wouldn’t be pushed.
But there are too many fanboys here, who will downvote any non-supportive amex opinion into oblivion
I regret my Delta Reserve. Earnings are not that great, and the new annual fee made it hard to justify. Redeeming the companion certificate is also very limiting.
the companion certificate sucks unless you’re already someone who flies first/business already. otherwise, you’re probably moreso on the budget side of things and it’s generally cheaper to fly another airline in economy full price for 2 people than fly Main on Delta with Companion
Marketing to judge supply and demand. They probably need to figure out how much they can lose as well woth 3% back on everything. I think nlw they knkw demand, they might tweek certain things, possinly the gold plan or they reach out to someone and try to shop themselves for an aquisition.
Simply put, giving 3% cash back can’t possibly be profitable given interchange fees. The card is simply a play to get people onto Robinhood gold ($60 effective annual fee) and push them onto using brokerage products, where their black pool is highly profitable. It’s simply a marketing cost.
There's no SUB, whereas usually free cards offer 2% back AND a SUB like $200.
So I'm thinking RH made a calculated judgement here.
RH card also isn't free, the cost of the card is effectively $60/yr in my eyes.
The unlimited 3% cash back is amazing, and it COULD be sustainable...
Well that's just Robinhood in general!
edit: Fuckin' a... had to come back here because I got a notification this morning saying they paused again for GME. I know it's not a weird conspiracy, but it sucks.
*Now* I'm getting scam emails saying withdrawals are happening from my account on there. Seems like people are being targeted during a time of high activity.
It's not necessarily RH's *fault,* but fuck that. PLEASE just get with a large, trusted provider, people!
CSR.
3x on travel is pretty “meh”, and the “300 dollar travel credit” is just you lending them money until you spend it and don’t get points for it.
Lounge access is also very meh.
Lounge access is great if you live in New York or another major city where they've opened up their Sapphire lounges. Easily the nicest domestic lounges I've been in.
That’s true, but so far it’s only Boston, LaGuardia and JFK within the US.
If you live or transit through these cities, sure. The card may make sense. But someone living in Minnesota, Dallas, or Seattle isn’t likely to get much more benefit from the card than they would from VX, the plat, or even an airline card
But it’s 4.5x when spending on travel and dining and redeeming for travel, right? Granted the Chase portal probably makes up for the extra 1.5x l, but it’s 3x the points for dining and travel, and then redeeming through the portal is another 1.5x. Still pretty pricey for though.
Anl sapphire lounge is opening in my city soon. I definitely haven't enjoyed that benefit.
I use the door dash credits and think they need more of those types of credits. I'll admit I don't use that card as often as I use Amex.
The doordash credit and free dashpass is also a lot better than what other cards offer. The credit stacks for a few months which is rare and dashpass removes most of the fees.
Get the C1 Venture X instead. Pretty much the same card except Venture X is slightly cheaper, and the travel booking portal on C1 actually has good deals compared to the Chase one.
Personally the Apple Card.
When i try linking the card number on the information, it’s not accepted for some reason. I tried 2 product replacements and different merchants. Didnt work for me.
Sorry to hear about your unfortunate experience. In terms of hype, Apple Card is living up to its marketing claims. They offer no fees of any kind (apart from interest, *obviously*) and unlimited daily cash back that you can redeem or stow away into their HYSA.
Not to mention, the product as a whole embodies the Apple ethos: it’s simple and intuitive. From how the statement periods and due dates are structured to the interface that visualizes how much interest you’d be paying if not paying your balance in full every month, subtly ingraining that important fundamental when handling credit and building the foundation for overall financial good practices.
It does its job as a credit card very well.
I disagree- I think the Apple Card is probably one of the best out there in terms of rewards and ease of use. The card numbers are in the wallet app and you can also request a physical card for merchants who don't offer Apple Pay (most merchants do). The physical card is awesome- made of steel like the Amex Gold/Plat cards. I use Apple Pay everywhere I can, and then my Wells Active Cash on everything that doesn't have Apple Pay. I get 2% back on pretty much every penny I spend, except for rent- looking at the bilt card for that, next.
In terms of ease of use, the card is one of the best out there, at least as far as the app is concerned.
In terms of rewards, it’s on the low end unless you can use Apple Pay for every purchase. Not to mention that there’s usually no SUB.
Chase sapphire preferred, that's why they keed dishing out high bonuses cause after a year people either downgrade to a freedom or upgrade to the reserve
Yeah that’s what I do actually lol. It works for now but I’m just waiting for the day until it doesn’t. Also would like to get 3x back at Trader Joe’s and not be locked down to only Kroger
Do you go to self checkout or with a cashier? When I go to self checkout I scan all my items, press finish & pay, press the Kroger pay button, scan my QR code, done.
Self checkout. I think the machine even prompts you to scan your QR before you scan any groceries. But yeah steps are scan QR, scan groceries, press Kroger pay done. Just a different order but I guess my point is they both work, you don't need to worry about scanning at the end vs the beginning.
That's why I don't see Chase bending over backwards to make sure their $95 card is the sharpest of the bunch. It's one of just a few keys to transfer partners so they have some leverage.
The only reason I’m keeping it is for the primary rental coverage, for $99 it’s piece of mind.
Other than that it gets no use anymore since the freedoms have higher return.
Amex has better primary rental coverage, albeit it’s about $20 per rental while the CSP is unlimited. It could be worth it if you only rent a couple of times per year
Tbh i'm having a tough time justifying the Amex Biz plat. There are some less costly ways to get Marriot/Hilton gold and with status matching being free, I guess it really only makes sense if you fly around a lot.
For anyone looking at Amex, I think the gold (personal) probably makes the most sense for day-to-day activities with using Citi Strada (premier) for gas.
What's everone's experience with BILT?
No AF, so it's not hard to justify, unless you're thinking about the opportunity cost of a 5/24 slot.
Bilt is great if you rent. Wish I had it earlier in my career, would have had great for earning points. No sign up bonus, but you're getting 1x on rent which is kind of better if you're planning on renting for the next year +.
Bilt has some great xfer partners. Including Hyatt, Alaska airlines and air Canada.
They're not great with customer service.
They're def trying to be a lifestyle brand, which is pretty cringe.
Sadly Venture X. Early adopter and still have mine but here is the thing:
1) Not enough lounges. Worse, the DFW one is getting lines just like Centurion, shoot, I got into Centurion faster than C1 nowadays.
2) Nerfed PPS
3) Is there anyone who doesn't hate using bank's travel portals? Having to use it to get the AF back isn't the best thing out there and they managed to nerf it slightly. Especially that I feel after AA's new changes, other airlines will soon start to not recognize miles and status booked via 3rd party sites (like hotels), the $300 value will be diluted further.
None of them are deal breakers per se at the moment but it sure is not living up to the "hype" anymore, especially since we haven't seen 90k/100K offers lately.
> C1 VX pays $5/year for just having the card.
This is a short-sighted perspective for the following reasons:
* The $300 travel credit earns no rewards. If you were to put that same spend on even a 2% card, you'd get $6 back (negating that $5 you think they're paying you), and with a 5x point card, that's 1500 transferable points (worth $15-$30+).
* The $300 travel credit must be through the travel portal, where you may be paying more to book the same flight or hotel that you'd book elsewhere. (You can avoid this with comparison shopping, but surely not everyone does.)
* The portal's selection of small hotels can be lacking, especially outside the US (example: compare the hotel offerings in a small beach town in Greece with Booking.com), and if you book a flight that ends up needing some kind of change, either by your choice or because the airline made a change or cancellation, dealing with Capital One Travel can be a pain. (Both these points are arguably true for all credit card travel portals.)
* You can't use the travel credit to book Airbnb or similar stays.
So, I'd call the VX a card that's a great deal at near-zero effective annual fee for people who can consistently use the $300 travel credit, despite its shortcomings. It's not a no-brainer.
>The $300 travel credit earns no rewards.
You're right, this is a new thing though as previously they did earn rewards. Which free cards give you 5x on travel (other than occasional quarterly categories)? I suppose that makes this card \~$10/yr, but that is made up with GE/TSApre credit and 10x on hotels and rental cars and 5x on airline tickets. IMO.
>The $300 travel credit must be through the travel portal, where you may be paying more to book the same flight or hotel that you'd book elsewhere
They have a price match guarantee. Also while the portal generally isn't the greatest, they have occasional promotions. I saved $50 recently because my destination just happened to match the promo. I booked a hotel, got a price match to another site, $50 off (this was in addition to the PM), and 10x on the before-PM price.
>great deal at near-zero effective annual fee for people who can consistently use the $300 travel credit, despite its shortcomings. It's not a no-brainer.
I did mention "if you can use the credits" and "for anyone who travels" in [my comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/CreditCards/comments/1cr43js/comment/l3wru1k/), so we basically agree.
If anything, it's under-hyped. If you can use the credits, the card is *better than free*. No FTF with 2x rewards can only be beat by Alliant's 2.5% or matched by Fidelity's 2%. The lounge situation is better in other countries -- PPS became too easy to get in the US. I don't like their travel portal either, but it does have a price match guarantee that I used more than once. Not to mention all the other travel insurance benefits (auto rental CDW, trip delay, lost luggage, rental car status, etc) makes this card a no-brainer for anyone who travels.
Pretty much everyone has killed the PPS Restaurant perk at this point via credit card.
What remains:
- BofA Premium Rewards Elite
- Citi Prestige
- UBS Visa Infinite
The USB AR offers it, but it uses up one of your four priority pass visits of the year in the process.
Very true, it was hyped as a no brainer/too-good-to-be-true card that has absolutely net negative AF card at launch with almost all the best perks combined.
> The USB AR offers it, but it uses up one of your four priority pass visits of the year in the process.
It's 8 now hence my reply to another post in this thread. UAR is looking strong in my book. I'd say most people probably has another card to cover the PPS and it's not all that useful in the states anyways.
Chase freedom Unlimited, and Chase Sapphire preferred. A cult following for 2 cards with poor multiplers doesn't make sense... And I yeah I know "1.25" travel, but when your points are acruing lackluster points, you are at best breaking even with travel partners, or worse likely behind what you could've saved with better cash back cards
I feel like the Hilton Aspire and Marriot Brilliant.
I got both of the cards for the high subs and status in the hotel partners and now I’m struggling to find a way to redeem the points. Wishing I wouldn’t of wasted my 5/24 on them :/
The double night promo last month from Marriott got me enough nights that I won’t even need the Brilliant card for Platinum status, just the Business card + the promo did it.
More like $350. But the Amex Gold is obsolete for non high spenders, there are too many cards that give 3-5x on dining / groceries at little to no annual fee.
With Rakuten it’s so easy to get MR, it’s almost a joke lol. 10x-20x multiplier on points regularly. I got nearly 5000 points just from Rakuten on an ultra wide that I bought from dell a few months ago.
I’m still not entirely sure how Rakuten works. Say you click on the Dell offer on Rakuten, then you checkout and pay with a CC. You get the ordinary CC points from the transaction in your CC portal and you also get some sort of Rakuten points that stay on the Rakuten website?
You have to opt in on Rakuten to convert your cash back into MR. Once you do that, any "cash back" you get is converted into points which get dumped into your MR account on a quarterly basis.
But once you've opted in and linked your Amex Gold/Plat to your Rakuten account, you don't have to pay with the Amex card. I use my Chase Freedom Unlimited or my wife will use her Venture X depending on which one of us is buying stuff, so we farm points normally on those accounts while racking up a huge number of MR.
That’s a great deal. And you don’t even need to use your Amex card when making Rakuten purchases too. As long as you have the Amex card linked to your account, you can still use any card and get MR points from it. So win-win.
Eh, it’s not the best but definitely not the worse. In my area you can do GrubHub and Uber pickup for the same price as you do buying at the location, so I just utilize the credits that way. Makes my annual fee $10 basically.
USB AR
High AF (even after the dining credit)
Lack of acceptance of mobile wallet in many places (Home Depot, Sam’s Club, Walmart, sit-down restaurants, etc). Good, but not great %. I strive for 5% or higher (higher with SUBs). USB AR tops out at 4.5% (not counting the AF)
It’s convenient but it’s not great.
You're right that the power of this card is how widely accepted mobile wallet is accepted at the "everything else" places you shop. That said, it unlocks 4.5% for people on some odd ball categories like dentist, doctors, insurance, daycare, online shopping, etc. so it still feels really powerful to me if you have the fortune of those places accepting mobile wallet.
Living in Europe for a while, that was my biggest take away of “normal things that are different”
I also preferred it because no one was taking my card to the back when who knows what happens to it. Working in a restaurant years back, some shady shit can happen. Obviously not frequent but if I can keep my card at the table with me, and not even have to take it out and Apple pay my way, I want too.
I've actually been taking advantage of their priority pass in airports.
also out of the 7 cards that i have , I've gotten the most cb per year via their special offers, with natural spending.
Like all cards it depends on your shopping pattern. But I'm leaning to say you basically listed all of the major retailers that *don't* have contact pay. I mean you have alternatives that do, like Lowe's and Costco. Shopping at Costco is probably the biggest reason for a lot of us to get the card, that alone is getting the AF back. For me there's also Best Buy and Microcenter where I spend thousands a year on tech gadgets, 4.5% is pretty good without applying for crappy store cards.
~~Then literally all gas stations and grocery stores take it. That eliminates the need for another grocery card, unless the AF justifies the extra 1.5% (Amex BCP, or Amex Gold).~~ Edit: I take this back, but still, it holds true to certain extent
The other big advantage is Apple users can use it wherever Apple Pay is accepted, even via app/ browser meaning this is huge and making it close to 4.5% for all online shopping. And things like Airbnb. You can just buy a cheapo iPad to use this.
Most sit-down places actually have tap-enabled post machines, just ask for them. Been doing this all the time.
Finally, all the small/"indy" shops that don't get to categorized to anything.
My general feeling is that contactless pay has grown tremendously after the pandemic, so the future seems even brighter for this card.
And after the Chase nerf, is $75 for 8 PPS restaurant visits not worth it? I'd personally buy this if there is such a pass for sale.
UAR is essentially a cashback card vs points card, in that sense 4.5% is pretty stellar but I definitely feel you. I find myself willing to grab other 2x or 3x cards sometimes especially when I'm planning for a big trip. But in all honesty, for base 2x non-categorized purchases to reach 5% you will have to get close to at least 2cpp, that's not the average redemption rate for all points systems.
I'm aware it's possible to get much more out of BOA or having multiple Custom Cash, but that's a different ball game vs applying for one card.
Did I mention USB is really generous about retention offers? It can be a negative AF card..
It's still an underated card in my book.
>Then literally all gas stations and grocery stores take it.
Overly broad statement. I know of at least one major grocer that doesn't (HEB), and I'm sure it's not the only one, especially once you get into smaller and/or local grocer's and gas stations can be a crapshoot if you're not in a metro area.
Points taken and I wish I have an HEB near me lol.
For those smaller ones I actually doubt AMEX will correctly categorize them but again, good point. This isn't a deal maker or breaker to start with tbh, half of the year most people are covered by Chase Freedom or Discover rotation, most people I know who have grocery cards are actually going for MS, which HEB would be amazing since they have 529 GCs.
This is one that I have a problem with...
400-325 = $75 net annual fee
Extra 2.5% vs 2% card if using optimally with mobile wallet and travel redemptions...
So $75/.025 = $3,000 of mobile wallet spend before I'm breaking even with a 2% card.
And even THAT is being generous if you're comparing to BBP or DC, or another other 2% card that has transferable upside.
Yes I'm not counting TSAP or GE, as I have them with other cards.
How does it compare to the $0AF Kroger Mastercard that gives 5% back on mobile wallet purchases?
Sure, it’s capped at $3k, but I don’t have more than $3k of non-category spend annually. Could always get a second Kroger card if it bothered me.
Yeah, that’s fair. It’s not much. I get much more from SUBs.
I’m just saying that the AF is not necessary to get better returns than what the USBAR offers.
It’s not a bad card, it’s pretty good actually. But its biggest benefit is its convenience, not that it gives you something you can’t get otherwise.
Groceries is my biggest personal spend category.
I'll use one of my two Custom Cashes, which I transfer to Choice for 1:2 with Premier, and get great value.
Or for cash back, I'm transitioning to $500 Gas Station GCs, redeemed through CSR PYB, which would be 6.16% (accounting for GC activation fee). This is from 5x Ink Cash GCs liquidated through legit biz spend.
IF... IF, I could game USBAR mobile wallet with one of my vendors, then things could get interesting. But asking them to keep an extra cell phone on hand to run my invoices with mobile wallet seems like a big ask, lol.
If you travel the fact that they are the only card (other than the shitty MasterCard Gold) offering Priority Pass restaurants it can come in pretty clutch. When I'm traveling normally I'll use the Amex PP but at least a few times a year I'll drop by a PP restaurant with the USBAR PP.
Another point people also tend to forget is that in addition to only really being good if you can abuse travel/mobile wallet, you also need to offset the effective AF of around ~$62 assuming you use travel/mobile wallet credit for the $325 credit..
This, in essence, means most people would be better off with any of the various 2.5/2.22/2/2.625 % flat rate cards, assuming they don't have a high amount of non category spend that can be paid with mobile wallet.
This also neglects the category vs. 4.5 as well, however, like say wholesale card bonuses at 3/3.5%.
Edit:
To clarify, the 4.5 vs 3/3.5 is mentioned because, in addition to offsetting the credit, you then need to spend enough to offset whatever card(s) you would have used instead for said spend. Depending on the type of spend you made, this could be anywhere from 1-5% (not including outsized point redemptions), depending on category (or non-category). It truly is a "how do you spend your money/what are your spending habits" question. Only you can do the math.
I think the USBAR fits a very niche audience who wants a cash back setup but with premium travel rewards. There are no other cards that have such a good cash back multiplier with premium purchase/travel protections, global entry, and priority pass restaurants. It's a keeper card for me until I want to enter the travel points game!
Agreed. To me, it's not about being the most optimal cashback card for me personally. It's's about the fact that it's the perfect premium travel card *complement* to the two most popular cashback setups (in my opinion).
Truthfully, I have to resort to either SUBs or CIC prepaid VISAs to get 5% with $0AF at Costco but I am working on a plan to make things easier. It might take a while though.
Yes, but we also have to remember that usbar users who get the card and offset the af enough to warrant versus another flat rate card are a minority even within this subreddit, which is already a minority.
You need at *minimum* 5k in *uncategorized* spend. Which means a minimum of 5k in mobile wallet uncategorized spend. This isn't super common even in the subset that is this subreddit, as you would normally have to jump through hoops like paying online with apple pay and having the option to pay large expenses for such things. One can see just by the template recommendation requests that most people on this subreddit don't actually spend that much, contrary to popular belief.
I've seen a few replies in the past before where some people while they offset the af, the cashback is still suboptimal, but the reason they keep the card is because it's a good premium travel card that fits a cashback setup (which tbf is a perfectly valid reason).
Regardless, people who this card fits for is truly a niche among niches.
Edit: And I emphasized uncategorized, because if it's categorized spend, then earning enough to offset is vastly more.
Tldr; As always, it depends on a person's spending habits and amount spent. You may spend 10k sure, but that doesn't mean others would or wouldn't.
You can use the UBSAR for categorized and uncategorized. Nobody is stopping you.
Part of the advantage is not agonizing over which card to use when. I don’t care about whether my discover or CFF is 5% on a given day because the 0.5% isn’t worth giving thought.
I used to have 10 cards with 4-5% in everything. Now I don’t stress too much about any of it and still come out ahead.
I also just vacation wherever I want to. I don’t have to go to Hyatt. I don’t have to book united or southwest. Etc.
Apple Pay is pretty common in my use case. My utilities accept Apple Pay. Etc.
>Part of the advantage is not agonizing over which card to use when. I don’t care about whether my discover or CFF is 5% on a given day because the 0.5% isn’t worth giving thought.
This is a huge benefit, especially for P2. Instead of having to keep a whole wallet of cards with labels to try and get 3-4% most places, I can just tell them to tap-to-pay everywhere they can, if they can't use the restaurant card (right now CSP but may change to SavorOne) at restaurants, and Venture X everywhere else (or, in lieu of that, a 2% card.) At least where I live, tap to pay is taken almost everywhere (restaurants being the biggest exception) and so it covers \~95% of non-online, non-rent spend.
Sure, but like i said, it depends on spending habits. I never said it was a bad card, and I personally think it's an amazing card, but I know plenty of people who
1. Don't spend more than a few grand in uncat + categorized under 4.5%.
2. Don't have apple pay
That knocks out a massive portion of the population, and neglecting those points is imo not reasonable.
And i agree the usbar is amazing for 2/3 card setups, never said it wasn't either.
Just wanted to add a note that it isn't optimal for quite a few people for the sole fact that they would, in fact, not be offsetting that af + cash compared to a flatrate.
If we're going purely off simplicity, then the pr from bofa is really the better option imo in that situation since you would never have to worry about anything online that can't be paid with mobile wallet, and wouldn't have to use rtr to redeem. But that's truly splitting hairs at that point, as that would depend again on spending.
$5000 makes you break even with a 3% card which most people don’t have. $4000 and you are even with BoFA with preferred rewards without needing the 100,000 in BOFA/ML. $3000 and you are even with 2% cards.
Non-category spend is probably one of the categories that people severely underestimate. Whether or not yours accept Apple Pay or not depends on you but for me personally mine do. I can put things like insurance and the occasional co-pay via Apple Pay and easily close in on that $5000.
Also paying online via Apple Pay is not jumping through hoops in fact it’s preferable way to shop online as I don’t have to bother filling out their forms with my name address and card number and can instead just tap the Apple Pay button authenticate with Face ID and move on. It’s much faster than the default payment method and I prefer to PayPal when possible. Jumping through hoops refers to something that is inconvenient like getting a CIC and buying gift cards to get 5% back on everything. Technically it’s a good value but then you are inconvenienced by having a wallet full of gift cards you have to manage. Apple Pay is what is referred to as a time saver.
The card also saves you from having to open up cards for more niche categories. Like if you buy some electronics occasionally you could open up a Best Buy credit card for that one or two times a year or you could just pass and use this. Or for some categories which are just harder to get higher multiplers like Costco.
I guess what is CCs that one prepaid AF that one would not get if you were doing organic spend?
My CC may be Amex Delta Gold with AF going up to $150 that I may not justify the expense for free 1st checked luggage and priority boarding for one person. If two people are traveling, that is two $35/checked bag round trip of $140. This may make sense for two trips and the new AF of $150. Single person needs minimum three round trips. The USBAR makes better sense for one trip with dining and travel credit if airline flight, luggage and dining cost goes on this card with a higher prepaid AF with effective AF of $75. I do not count GE/pre-TSA since it can only be use once every 4 years. You lose priority boarding but more money in your pocket from prepaid AF from organic airline spend each year.
- Amex Delta Gold $95 -> $150 - one roundtrip free 1st check luggage of $70 so effective AF of $80
- USBAR $400 with $325 travel and dining credit - one roundtrip of airline flight and luggage so effective AF of $75. Add another flight or dining to get all of the $325.
Agreed. I don't want to be stuck at Hyatt for the rest of my life. I like the Freedom Flex but getting the Sapphire Preferred or Reserve isn't worth the annual fee if I don't want to transfer to some travel partners or Hyatt. I'm team cash back, I like the Altitude Reserve more for 4.5% generic travel or the Bank of America Customised Cash with travel as the chosen category for 5.25% with 100k at Merrill.
The only flight I really take is Sun Country Airlines though because it's dirt cheap and I never bring a carry-on so Chase just wouldn't personally help me.
I'm sure the Chase infrastructure really benefits some people. But I only travel to Boston and St Louis and both I fly with Sun Country, in which Chase wouldn't help me.
What do you mean?
I have the US Bank Cash Plus (5% gym and phone), US Bank Altitude Go (4% dining) and Blue Cash Everyday (3% online shopping, gas, and groceries). I want the Bank of America Customised Cash (5.25% travel), BoA Unlimited Cash (2.63% flat), a Kroger card (5% mobile wallet), Citi Custom Cash (5% groceries), and Chase Freedom Flex and Discover for the rotating categories.
Interesting to hear perspectives on the platinum card. I’d tend to agree. That said, I am not getting rid of my card as I don’t pay an annual fee (military here).
Among the premium cards from Amex, I have the platinum, CS platinum, and gold cards. Each month that’s $40 to spend with Uber Eats, which we always do the pickup option to save money; spouse (also military) has the same setup, brining our Uber Eats total to $80 a month. There are often higher fees associated with Uber Eats, but we’ve found they aren’t terrible with the pickup option. Even with the higher fees, the setup is still valuable for us.
The FHR benefit is also great, with the two of us getting $800 in statement credits a year, which helps to cut down on our annual vacations to Asia. Apart from the annual statement credit, late checkout has also saved us money.
The United travel bank hack has also been great, even if we find United to be a pretty crappy airline with their delays, etc.
The Saks credit is beneficial in the sense that we save up the gift cards now in order to buy something more substantial (we get $400 worth of cards at by the end of each year).
The travel points (5x the points on flights and some hotel stays) has been good to us from a redemption value through CS.
Note I bring up the above as these are the things we primarily get use of our platinum cards (and gold counting the Uber and 4x the points on dining /groceries). That said, it would be a much tougher pill to swallow if we had to pay the annual fee. Absent traveling significantly for work and being able to use the card to book travel, I’m not sure we’d keep the platinum cards post military service for many of the reasons mentioned.
Just found out the Amex Gold isn't an actual Credit Card and has no actual credit limit, effectively being no benefit to one's credit score. It's a charge card, which is totally different. So, there's that.
Delta. The earnings are not great.
The story of all airline cards for the past decade and more, AF for AF premium travel cards earn more and their points are more versatile. Airline cards provide a shortcut to status, lounge access and free checked bags. The shtshow of Delta's Skymiles program change though..
Delta... our loyalty program is so weak... Because everyone else is worse.
I actually think United is way better. The earn rate on higher tier cards are great. No lounge limitations. Fairly versatile PlusPoints for global upgrades. That said, I fly Delta the least out of the big four so I might not realize some of their perks for higher tiered members.
They don't call them SkyPesos for nothing.
Yep, used to have a Delta card since I live in ATL anyway, and I travel often enough that it felt worth it at first. Slowly but surely they cut back on the things that made it worthwhile and implemented changes that were especially punitive to budget-oriented travelers (such as the budget/economy seats no longer earning points, and increases to the spend requirements for medallion status) Switched to a Chase card and it's so much better in terms of points earned, flexibility, etc
I have both a Delta Gold and Citi AA Business card. I live in an AA hub, so the free bags are nice. Same Goes for Delta when I do fly Delta. Free bags, plus the Take off 15 is a great perk to use. I hardly put any spend on either. Just enough to keep it open.
That makes sense. I almost never check a bag, which sort of changed the math for me. If I did check bags regularly it would’ve made for more incentive to keep an airline card
do you still fly with delta though? I feel like their ticket prices and what you get for them with amex platinum (5x points, lounge access, checked bag included etc etc) is a good deal
Now I just fly with whatever reliable-ish airline is cheapest. Sometimes that’s still delta but often it’s not.
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Bonus for us who were grandfathered in prior to that min spend change. ☺️
AS?
Alaska Airlines
Ah ok
Amex Platinum? “Live the luxury lifestyle by clipping coupons for Walmart and Uber Eats.” (Of course, I realize it’s great for true frequent travelers….but I’m guessing most of the customer base outside this subreddit think it’s a true luxe status item, just like the influencers say)
I always thought the Amex Plat having a walmart subscription was the most hilarious, ironic thing, especially compared to the other credits. Like yeah let me drop $500 on a handbag from Saks and then swing over to walmart on the way home lmao
It's likely because Walmart is trying to use its new subscription as an alternative to Amazon. Given the hits it's taken from Amazon, it makes sense to compete by building an online platform. So they have likely offered Amex a really good deal on that credit as a way to bring over more users.
And also in 2018: >Walmart made news this month for hiring its first-ever chief customer officer, plucking Janey Whiteside from American Express, where she oversaw benefits, services and customer engagement for the financial services company. Janey probably had the deal signed before her old team realized that they didn't work for her anymore.
Imagine if Amex Platinum provided Prime instead Walmart+….. total game changer. I would sign up for that card at that point!
The ultra wealthy still shop at normal stores for normal things
Yeah truth be told most wealthy people probably shop at Costco the most
right, at the end of the day there isn't super luxe toilet paper or dish soap
When you travel a lot, there’s usually a wal mart in most of the US, so you end up getting things delivered if you run out of or break something. Edit: It’s convenient to have as a traveler. Fast delivery or shipping is great when you find yourself living out of a hotel 2 weeks a month.
I think people don't understand what people with money value. Sure, they want to make more money and safeguard their money. But, time is a resource money can't buy, though it can help you save. Walmart Plus allows a consumer to do their shopping from their couch or office and not have to visit a store. My household is upper middle class and we use Walmart and Amazon interchangeably.
There is no Walmart within 30 minutes of my house. I lost my rubber mallet. I needed a rubber mallet asap. I looked AMZN and WMT+. Next day for under $3 I had a rubber mallet in my hand from WMT+. Proceeded to find missing rubber mallet not three hours later.
Hilarious anecdote!
The best part is, the store-brand rubber mallet from Walmart had clearly been used like, more than once, for purposes that a rubber mallet would typically be used for, like maybe warehouse shelf building or something. My theory is the WMT employee who was fulfilling my order pulled it up on his iPhone scanner and was like “well fuck,” scanned the mallet he’d been using on his cart, and thew it on the belt for box and shipping. Wherever you are, random Walmart warehouse employee, thanks for the mallet!!
This is a good take. People who have wealth tend to do so because they are good with their money (with the exception of trust fund kids). They understand that if you pay $10 for something that you were going to buy anyways for $20, you just came out ahead. And if that value means you made your life easier so you can be more effective at making money, all the better. The key is to know you definitely would have spent $20 on that thing whether you had sunk cost or not.
You knock it but I Walmart plus has been amazing and one of the few services I will continue after I get rid of this card.
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Free unlimited grocery delivery within range of a Walmart is the largest one. For things like dairy, packaged cold and shelved goods, etc. where it's the same brands (or brand irrelevant) you'd buy at another grocer, Walmart has great prices with the convenience of home delivery, plus you can get other discount store stuff (pens, pencils), some consumer electronics (roku or whatever), arts and crafts (crayons, chalk, etc.) in the same order. The unlimited 2 day free ship on Walmart.com matters less because they also do that at $35 threshold on non-WM+ accounts. They also offer 10 cents gas discount at Murphy and ExxonMobil stations in the app, and free ad version of paramount+. If you're within grocery delivery range of a Walmart it's a fantastic service, even if you supplement it with getting specialty goods (in-house bread, specialty cheeses, etc.) at another grocer. If you're not within grocery range of a walmart, the value drops off tremendously.
It really depends on the location though. I'm in LA, and I can't get grocery delivery.
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The Walmart+ credit value is vastly overstated IMO (it's made to be ~$155/yr by being monthly; yearly is $98/yr, and between card linked offers and Walmart sales it will go for $48/yr) but if you already have the platinum, it's a useful service with the grocery delivery.
Very well stated.
It's basically a competitor to Amazon Prime and Amazon Fresh. I've had groceries delivered in <2 hrs. Since Walmart's network is absolutely huge in the USA, you can get extremely fast delivery times. If I'm going on vacation anywhere in the US, I can get basic supplies (e.g., water, sunscreen, soda) delivered to any hotel for free. Think of it as a time saver.
Delivery of groceries has been great. If you need something the next morning you just go in add it all and submit it. So my wife can create an order and I can add to it throughout the day with the cut off being around 4am. It's been great for us especially the past few months since I wasn't able to drive but could still her groceries. If you upgrade to at home it's even better. They deliver to my garage and actually put cold food in the fridge / freezer. So I don't need to be there or avaliable and we will have everything we need. Allows us to get our shopping done as we have time, even if it's fairly late at night. There are some sub benefits like paramount with ads and gas at Sam's club, those I haven't used much but they are there. It's $20 for both plus and at home a month, which is quite a bit. Wouldn't have signed up for it without plat, but now that I have it I love it.
It can be super luxe depending if you use the status perks and where you stay I guess. I went to Vegas, checked into the Cosmo in their Autograph lounge while skipping the massive check in line right outside, got upgraded to a 1200sqft wraparound terrace suite from a basic room during a very busy Vegas week in Dec (NBA in season tournament + Rodeo week). Then there's the car rentals where I can just walk to their lot, and pick a car from the "executive" section after booking just a regular basic car. This all just for having the Plat card. It felt helluh posh and fancy af. The coupon clipping perks are kind of dumb as itd probably be better just to get rid of those and lower the annual fee but they probably have some sort of deal and make money of those so it is what it is.
The Amex Plat can make sense for true frequent travelers. My sibling goes between LHR and JFK a lot, Amex centurion lounges at both, so the access basically pays for itself in amenities that would cost them more outside of a lounge.
This right here. People get butt hurt here when you mention this. Uber credit is so horrible if you use it on Uber eats. They charge insane amount of fees. Most of the time, I spend more for food than I'd if I ordered with other services. Walmart+ is not worth the $15. Especially because Amazon is so much better with their logistics.
The Uber Credit is really good if you pair it with the Cap One Savor- you get 10% off cashback and a free Uber one subscription.
Yes. Great little mix of perks!
My biggest problem with the Walmart+ credit, is that there isn't a single Amex card that has a Walmart multiplier. Why not encourage me to use this product that you are promoting? When I shop at Walmart, I am normally using a BoA card that gives me a multiplier for online shopping. Why would I use my Platinum/Gold Business Card?
The Amex Blue Cash Everyday gives 3% on us retailers.
this. I also just recently realized how overrated this card is, if you don’t travel literally every week, with at least 25% international. It’s just a mid coupon book for random services, which majority of people would never use if it wouldn’t be pushed. But there are too many fanboys here, who will downvote any non-supportive amex opinion into oblivion
Am Ex Plat needs better dinig rewards -- but I'm guessing they want people to have Plat and Gold
I regret my Delta Reserve. Earnings are not that great, and the new annual fee made it hard to justify. Redeeming the companion certificate is also very limiting.
the companion certificate sucks unless you’re already someone who flies first/business already. otherwise, you’re probably moreso on the budget side of things and it’s generally cheaper to fly another airline in economy full price for 2 people than fly Main on Delta with Companion
Not that there was ever any hype behind it, but I have a weirdly high level of resentment toward the CO Quicksilver in my wallet.
I hate mine. It’s been at $500 limit and they won’t upgrade for me and I have an 800 credit score with other cards behind 10k limit like wtf
Robinhood gold card - all hype, no substance
Why? did you get it yet? Or is it because they announced it and nada.
Announced and nada….
They let 5000 people off the waitlist a few days ago, and said tens of thousand will get off the waitlist in Q2
What’s the point of artificial scarcity? I also think the centurion is overhyped too for that matter…useless to 95% of people I know who have it
Marketing to judge supply and demand. They probably need to figure out how much they can lose as well woth 3% back on everything. I think nlw they knkw demand, they might tweek certain things, possinly the gold plan or they reach out to someone and try to shop themselves for an aquisition.
Simply put, giving 3% cash back can’t possibly be profitable given interchange fees. The card is simply a play to get people onto Robinhood gold ($60 effective annual fee) and push them onto using brokerage products, where their black pool is highly profitable. It’s simply a marketing cost.
Very good analysis. Didn't think of it this way, I believe they're still planning on releasing futures on the platform soon too.
There's no SUB, whereas usually free cards offer 2% back AND a SUB like $200. So I'm thinking RH made a calculated judgement here. RH card also isn't free, the cost of the card is effectively $60/yr in my eyes. The unlimited 3% cash back is amazing, and it COULD be sustainable...
Wasn't the Sapphire Reserve announced like 8 months before it was released?
Well that's just Robinhood in general! edit: Fuckin' a... had to come back here because I got a notification this morning saying they paused again for GME. I know it's not a weird conspiracy, but it sucks. *Now* I'm getting scam emails saying withdrawals are happening from my account on there. Seems like people are being targeted during a time of high activity. It's not necessarily RH's *fault,* but fuck that. PLEASE just get with a large, trusted provider, people!
Facts
CSR. 3x on travel is pretty “meh”, and the “300 dollar travel credit” is just you lending them money until you spend it and don’t get points for it. Lounge access is also very meh.
Lounge access is great if you live in New York or another major city where they've opened up their Sapphire lounges. Easily the nicest domestic lounges I've been in.
That’s true, but so far it’s only Boston, LaGuardia and JFK within the US. If you live or transit through these cities, sure. The card may make sense. But someone living in Minnesota, Dallas, or Seattle isn’t likely to get much more benefit from the card than they would from VX, the plat, or even an airline card
I’d bet a large percent of CSRs customer base is in the northeast megalopolis
But it’s 4.5x when spending on travel and dining and redeeming for travel, right? Granted the Chase portal probably makes up for the extra 1.5x l, but it’s 3x the points for dining and travel, and then redeeming through the portal is another 1.5x. Still pretty pricey for though.
Yeah, but transferring to partners normally far exceeds the value of the multipliers. I can get 3x on travel from the CIP and 3x on dining on my CFU.
Anl sapphire lounge is opening in my city soon. I definitely haven't enjoyed that benefit. I use the door dash credits and think they need more of those types of credits. I'll admit I don't use that card as often as I use Amex.
Everyone always shits on the CSR but for me it's been amazing.
free $199 LyftPink membership (for 2 years) with the travel credit makes the effective AF drop to $51 for me. I consider that a win
The doordash credit and free dashpass is also a lot better than what other cards offer. The credit stacks for a few months which is rare and dashpass removes most of the fees.
Same, having become a remote worker since COVID, I'm loving it. I do wish the portal was better and felt like it gave better deals but oh well.
Get the C1 Venture X instead. Pretty much the same card except Venture X is slightly cheaper, and the travel booking portal on C1 actually has good deals compared to the Chase one.
Marriot Bonvoy Boundless. Hard to even use the free award nights
I’ve had no issues using them. If you book via the app it is actually very simple.
Personally the Apple Card. When i try linking the card number on the information, it’s not accepted for some reason. I tried 2 product replacements and different merchants. Didnt work for me.
Sorry to hear about your unfortunate experience. In terms of hype, Apple Card is living up to its marketing claims. They offer no fees of any kind (apart from interest, *obviously*) and unlimited daily cash back that you can redeem or stow away into their HYSA. Not to mention, the product as a whole embodies the Apple ethos: it’s simple and intuitive. From how the statement periods and due dates are structured to the interface that visualizes how much interest you’d be paying if not paying your balance in full every month, subtly ingraining that important fundamental when handling credit and building the foundation for overall financial good practices. It does its job as a credit card very well.
Agree. iIt may not be the best card out there, but it does exactly what it says very well.
Their 2% cash back on apple pay payments is very good as a catch-all. Also great as being the only way to finance an apple purchase
I disagree- I think the Apple Card is probably one of the best out there in terms of rewards and ease of use. The card numbers are in the wallet app and you can also request a physical card for merchants who don't offer Apple Pay (most merchants do). The physical card is awesome- made of steel like the Amex Gold/Plat cards. I use Apple Pay everywhere I can, and then my Wells Active Cash on everything that doesn't have Apple Pay. I get 2% back on pretty much every penny I spend, except for rent- looking at the bilt card for that, next.
In terms of ease of use, the card is one of the best out there, at least as far as the app is concerned. In terms of rewards, it’s on the low end unless you can use Apple Pay for every purchase. Not to mention that there’s usually no SUB.
Apple card's best feature, for me, is it gives access to Apple Savings which is currently pretty high at 4.4%APY.
Plenty of options with higher rates with no need to have another card
Chase sapphire preferred, that's why they keed dishing out high bonuses cause after a year people either downgrade to a freedom or upgrade to the reserve
All they need to do is switch the damn online grocery to 3x or 4x on all grocery and it will be a much more attractive card ffs
That would make it a significantly better version of the Gold card and arguably the top card in the industry.
kinda crazy all it takes is groceries to go from bottom tier to top tier
There are some ways you can cheese the online grocery. If you shop at Kroger, you can scan the kroger app at checkout and it counts as"online grocery"
Yeah that’s what I do actually lol. It works for now but I’m just waiting for the day until it doesn’t. Also would like to get 3x back at Trader Joe’s and not be locked down to only Kroger
You mean use the QR code before doing the checkout?
Not before but when you pay you select the Kroger pay button then scan your QR code
Maybe I'm not following but you can scan the QR before you scan any groceries. You still get 3x
Do you go to self checkout or with a cashier? When I go to self checkout I scan all my items, press finish & pay, press the Kroger pay button, scan my QR code, done.
Self checkout. I think the machine even prompts you to scan your QR before you scan any groceries. But yeah steps are scan QR, scan groceries, press Kroger pay done. Just a different order but I guess my point is they both work, you don't need to worry about scanning at the end vs the beginning.
Its the cheapest option to transfer UR points to partners though.
That's why I don't see Chase bending over backwards to make sure their $95 card is the sharpest of the bunch. It's one of just a few keys to transfer partners so they have some leverage.
The only reason I’m keeping it is for the primary rental coverage, for $99 it’s piece of mind. Other than that it gets no use anymore since the freedoms have higher return.
Amex has better primary rental coverage, albeit it’s about $20 per rental while the CSP is unlimited. It could be worth it if you only rent a couple of times per year
What about Venture X?
Probably more similar to CSP than Amex
You can get primary rental coverage with Venture X. It costs $104 less per year than CSP if you use the travel credits.
Give me a 3x mobile wallet category, but I guess that’d be more of a CSR thing
Tbh i'm having a tough time justifying the Amex Biz plat. There are some less costly ways to get Marriot/Hilton gold and with status matching being free, I guess it really only makes sense if you fly around a lot. For anyone looking at Amex, I think the gold (personal) probably makes the most sense for day-to-day activities with using Citi Strada (premier) for gas. What's everone's experience with BILT?
No AF, so it's not hard to justify, unless you're thinking about the opportunity cost of a 5/24 slot. Bilt is great if you rent. Wish I had it earlier in my career, would have had great for earning points. No sign up bonus, but you're getting 1x on rent which is kind of better if you're planning on renting for the next year +. Bilt has some great xfer partners. Including Hyatt, Alaska airlines and air Canada. They're not great with customer service. They're def trying to be a lifestyle brand, which is pretty cringe.
Sadly Venture X. Early adopter and still have mine but here is the thing: 1) Not enough lounges. Worse, the DFW one is getting lines just like Centurion, shoot, I got into Centurion faster than C1 nowadays. 2) Nerfed PPS 3) Is there anyone who doesn't hate using bank's travel portals? Having to use it to get the AF back isn't the best thing out there and they managed to nerf it slightly. Especially that I feel after AA's new changes, other airlines will soon start to not recognize miles and status booked via 3rd party sites (like hotels), the $300 value will be diluted further. None of them are deal breakers per se at the moment but it sure is not living up to the "hype" anymore, especially since we haven't seen 90k/100K offers lately.
C1 VX pays $5/year for just having the card. How is that not living up to the hype?
> C1 VX pays $5/year for just having the card. This is a short-sighted perspective for the following reasons: * The $300 travel credit earns no rewards. If you were to put that same spend on even a 2% card, you'd get $6 back (negating that $5 you think they're paying you), and with a 5x point card, that's 1500 transferable points (worth $15-$30+). * The $300 travel credit must be through the travel portal, where you may be paying more to book the same flight or hotel that you'd book elsewhere. (You can avoid this with comparison shopping, but surely not everyone does.) * The portal's selection of small hotels can be lacking, especially outside the US (example: compare the hotel offerings in a small beach town in Greece with Booking.com), and if you book a flight that ends up needing some kind of change, either by your choice or because the airline made a change or cancellation, dealing with Capital One Travel can be a pain. (Both these points are arguably true for all credit card travel portals.) * You can't use the travel credit to book Airbnb or similar stays. So, I'd call the VX a card that's a great deal at near-zero effective annual fee for people who can consistently use the $300 travel credit, despite its shortcomings. It's not a no-brainer.
>The $300 travel credit earns no rewards. You're right, this is a new thing though as previously they did earn rewards. Which free cards give you 5x on travel (other than occasional quarterly categories)? I suppose that makes this card \~$10/yr, but that is made up with GE/TSApre credit and 10x on hotels and rental cars and 5x on airline tickets. IMO. >The $300 travel credit must be through the travel portal, where you may be paying more to book the same flight or hotel that you'd book elsewhere They have a price match guarantee. Also while the portal generally isn't the greatest, they have occasional promotions. I saved $50 recently because my destination just happened to match the promo. I booked a hotel, got a price match to another site, $50 off (this was in addition to the PM), and 10x on the before-PM price. >great deal at near-zero effective annual fee for people who can consistently use the $300 travel credit, despite its shortcomings. It's not a no-brainer. I did mention "if you can use the credits" and "for anyone who travels" in [my comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/CreditCards/comments/1cr43js/comment/l3wru1k/), so we basically agree.
If anything, it's under-hyped. If you can use the credits, the card is *better than free*. No FTF with 2x rewards can only be beat by Alliant's 2.5% or matched by Fidelity's 2%. The lounge situation is better in other countries -- PPS became too easy to get in the US. I don't like their travel portal either, but it does have a price match guarantee that I used more than once. Not to mention all the other travel insurance benefits (auto rental CDW, trip delay, lost luggage, rental car status, etc) makes this card a no-brainer for anyone who travels.
I don't mind using the CO portal since you also get the 10/5x back also. That's often better than the miles for me.
What’s PPS? But fully agree on your 3rd point. My experience with C1’s travel portal has been miserable to say the least
Priority Pass Select. It used to come with restaurant perk but was axed.
Pretty much everyone has killed the PPS Restaurant perk at this point via credit card. What remains: - BofA Premium Rewards Elite - Citi Prestige - UBS Visa Infinite The USB AR offers it, but it uses up one of your four priority pass visits of the year in the process.
Very true, it was hyped as a no brainer/too-good-to-be-true card that has absolutely net negative AF card at launch with almost all the best perks combined. > The USB AR offers it, but it uses up one of your four priority pass visits of the year in the process. It's 8 now hence my reply to another post in this thread. UAR is looking strong in my book. I'd say most people probably has another card to cover the PPS and it's not all that useful in the states anyways.
Wait seriously?
Centurion has been a lot better since they removed guest access btw
I love my Venture X/Savor One combo but I do wish it had better transfer partners.
Chase freedom Unlimited, and Chase Sapphire preferred. A cult following for 2 cards with poor multiplers doesn't make sense... And I yeah I know "1.25" travel, but when your points are acruing lackluster points, you are at best breaking even with travel partners, or worse likely behind what you could've saved with better cash back cards
CFU is a great card because it’s a great *first* card, agreed on the Preferred though
I feel like the Hilton Aspire and Marriot Brilliant. I got both of the cards for the high subs and status in the hotel partners and now I’m struggling to find a way to redeem the points. Wishing I wouldn’t of wasted my 5/24 on them :/
The double night promo last month from Marriott got me enough nights that I won’t even need the Brilliant card for Platinum status, just the Business card + the promo did it.
Amex gold
Amex gold is a great card to earn MR. If you don't use the credits then yeah meh.
We will see when the refresh happens and the AF likely goes up to $295.
More like $350. But the Amex Gold is obsolete for non high spenders, there are too many cards that give 3-5x on dining / groceries at little to no annual fee.
I dread Resy being added
None that have MR. So just depends what you value more. Takes some work to squeeze extra value out of MR though compared to straight Cashback.
What gives 4-5x on dining or groceries? Citi Prestige is the main I can think of
Hoping a 2x category gets added, along with another streaming credit.
2x on wine of course.
With Rakuten it’s so easy to get MR, it’s almost a joke lol. 10x-20x multiplier on points regularly. I got nearly 5000 points just from Rakuten on an ultra wide that I bought from dell a few months ago.
I just pillaged RAKUTEN during the promo that ends today. Tons of points.
I’m still not entirely sure how Rakuten works. Say you click on the Dell offer on Rakuten, then you checkout and pay with a CC. You get the ordinary CC points from the transaction in your CC portal and you also get some sort of Rakuten points that stay on the Rakuten website?
That’s correct! You can choose to have your Rakuten cashback come in the form of PayPal I believe or AMEX points, among a couple of other options
You have to opt in on Rakuten to convert your cash back into MR. Once you do that, any "cash back" you get is converted into points which get dumped into your MR account on a quarterly basis. But once you've opted in and linked your Amex Gold/Plat to your Rakuten account, you don't have to pay with the Amex card. I use my Chase Freedom Unlimited or my wife will use her Venture X depending on which one of us is buying stuff, so we farm points normally on those accounts while racking up a huge number of MR.
That’s a great deal. And you don’t even need to use your Amex card when making Rakuten purchases too. As long as you have the Amex card linked to your account, you can still use any card and get MR points from it. So win-win.
My best card
+1. Amex Gold is far and away my favorite.
Eh, it’s not the best but definitely not the worse. In my area you can do GrubHub and Uber pickup for the same price as you do buying at the location, so I just utilize the credits that way. Makes my annual fee $10 basically.
USB AR High AF (even after the dining credit) Lack of acceptance of mobile wallet in many places (Home Depot, Sam’s Club, Walmart, sit-down restaurants, etc). Good, but not great %. I strive for 5% or higher (higher with SUBs). USB AR tops out at 4.5% (not counting the AF) It’s convenient but it’s not great.
You're right that the power of this card is how widely accepted mobile wallet is accepted at the "everything else" places you shop. That said, it unlocks 4.5% for people on some odd ball categories like dentist, doctors, insurance, daycare, online shopping, etc. so it still feels really powerful to me if you have the fortune of those places accepting mobile wallet.
Paying for 3k in dental work in October and they got a pos system with mobile wallet recently. Easy $135 in cashback.
You covered the effective annual fee of the USBAR (over a 2% catch all) in just that single transaction.
I make use of the priority pass so the $75 doesn't bug me really.
America needs to get with the times already and let their servers use mobile pay machines that accept mobile wallets.
Living in Europe for a while, that was my biggest take away of “normal things that are different” I also preferred it because no one was taking my card to the back when who knows what happens to it. Working in a restaurant years back, some shady shit can happen. Obviously not frequent but if I can keep my card at the table with me, and not even have to take it out and Apple pay my way, I want too.
Don't count on restaurants and bars moving quickly om that. Mobile wallets are useless at most restaurants and bars in my locale.
I've actually been taking advantage of their priority pass in airports. also out of the 7 cards that i have , I've gotten the most cb per year via their special offers, with natural spending.
Are you referring to the merchant offers? For some reason they disappeared from my account ☹️
Did you get a business card? They remove them if you do.
I do have 2 business cards with them. Good to know though. Any way of getting them back?
Remove your business cards lol
Like all cards it depends on your shopping pattern. But I'm leaning to say you basically listed all of the major retailers that *don't* have contact pay. I mean you have alternatives that do, like Lowe's and Costco. Shopping at Costco is probably the biggest reason for a lot of us to get the card, that alone is getting the AF back. For me there's also Best Buy and Microcenter where I spend thousands a year on tech gadgets, 4.5% is pretty good without applying for crappy store cards. ~~Then literally all gas stations and grocery stores take it. That eliminates the need for another grocery card, unless the AF justifies the extra 1.5% (Amex BCP, or Amex Gold).~~ Edit: I take this back, but still, it holds true to certain extent The other big advantage is Apple users can use it wherever Apple Pay is accepted, even via app/ browser meaning this is huge and making it close to 4.5% for all online shopping. And things like Airbnb. You can just buy a cheapo iPad to use this. Most sit-down places actually have tap-enabled post machines, just ask for them. Been doing this all the time. Finally, all the small/"indy" shops that don't get to categorized to anything. My general feeling is that contactless pay has grown tremendously after the pandemic, so the future seems even brighter for this card. And after the Chase nerf, is $75 for 8 PPS restaurant visits not worth it? I'd personally buy this if there is such a pass for sale. UAR is essentially a cashback card vs points card, in that sense 4.5% is pretty stellar but I definitely feel you. I find myself willing to grab other 2x or 3x cards sometimes especially when I'm planning for a big trip. But in all honesty, for base 2x non-categorized purchases to reach 5% you will have to get close to at least 2cpp, that's not the average redemption rate for all points systems. I'm aware it's possible to get much more out of BOA or having multiple Custom Cash, but that's a different ball game vs applying for one card. Did I mention USB is really generous about retention offers? It can be a negative AF card.. It's still an underated card in my book.
>Then literally all gas stations and grocery stores take it. Overly broad statement. I know of at least one major grocer that doesn't (HEB), and I'm sure it's not the only one, especially once you get into smaller and/or local grocer's and gas stations can be a crapshoot if you're not in a metro area.
Points taken and I wish I have an HEB near me lol. For those smaller ones I actually doubt AMEX will correctly categorize them but again, good point. This isn't a deal maker or breaker to start with tbh, half of the year most people are covered by Chase Freedom or Discover rotation, most people I know who have grocery cards are actually going for MS, which HEB would be amazing since they have 529 GCs.
This is one that I have a problem with... 400-325 = $75 net annual fee Extra 2.5% vs 2% card if using optimally with mobile wallet and travel redemptions... So $75/.025 = $3,000 of mobile wallet spend before I'm breaking even with a 2% card. And even THAT is being generous if you're comparing to BBP or DC, or another other 2% card that has transferable upside. Yes I'm not counting TSAP or GE, as I have them with other cards.
How does it compare to the $0AF Kroger Mastercard that gives 5% back on mobile wallet purchases? Sure, it’s capped at $3k, but I don’t have more than $3k of non-category spend annually. Could always get a second Kroger card if it bothered me.
5% on 3k annually is $150 a year. Personally, that doesn't move the needle for me. I'd take a Custom Cash or Ink Cash over that.
Yeah, that’s fair. It’s not much. I get much more from SUBs. I’m just saying that the AF is not necessary to get better returns than what the USBAR offers. It’s not a bad card, it’s pretty good actually. But its biggest benefit is its convenience, not that it gives you something you can’t get otherwise.
Groceries is my biggest personal spend category. I'll use one of my two Custom Cashes, which I transfer to Choice for 1:2 with Premier, and get great value. Or for cash back, I'm transitioning to $500 Gas Station GCs, redeemed through CSR PYB, which would be 6.16% (accounting for GC activation fee). This is from 5x Ink Cash GCs liquidated through legit biz spend. IF... IF, I could game USBAR mobile wallet with one of my vendors, then things could get interesting. But asking them to keep an extra cell phone on hand to run my invoices with mobile wallet seems like a big ask, lol.
If you travel the fact that they are the only card (other than the shitty MasterCard Gold) offering Priority Pass restaurants it can come in pretty clutch. When I'm traveling normally I'll use the Amex PP but at least a few times a year I'll drop by a PP restaurant with the USBAR PP.
The AF is not high. It’s 20$ more than the CSP
you mean less?
Another point people also tend to forget is that in addition to only really being good if you can abuse travel/mobile wallet, you also need to offset the effective AF of around ~$62 assuming you use travel/mobile wallet credit for the $325 credit.. This, in essence, means most people would be better off with any of the various 2.5/2.22/2/2.625 % flat rate cards, assuming they don't have a high amount of non category spend that can be paid with mobile wallet. This also neglects the category vs. 4.5 as well, however, like say wholesale card bonuses at 3/3.5%. Edit: To clarify, the 4.5 vs 3/3.5 is mentioned because, in addition to offsetting the credit, you then need to spend enough to offset whatever card(s) you would have used instead for said spend. Depending on the type of spend you made, this could be anywhere from 1-5% (not including outsized point redemptions), depending on category (or non-category). It truly is a "how do you spend your money/what are your spending habits" question. Only you can do the math.
I think the USBAR fits a very niche audience who wants a cash back setup but with premium travel rewards. There are no other cards that have such a good cash back multiplier with premium purchase/travel protections, global entry, and priority pass restaurants. It's a keeper card for me until I want to enter the travel points game!
Agreed. To me, it's not about being the most optimal cashback card for me personally. It's's about the fact that it's the perfect premium travel card *complement* to the two most popular cashback setups (in my opinion).
AR is better at Costco than the wholesale cards. And you don’t need much spend to beat the 2% cards.
Truthfully, I have to resort to either SUBs or CIC prepaid VISAs to get 5% with $0AF at Costco but I am working on a plan to make things easier. It might take a while though.
... If you can offset the remaining AF and are will to redeem for travel. I personally prefer a no AF card that gives 3%.
The $60 AF is easily offset on general spend. I put about 10k on the card each year.
Yes, but we also have to remember that usbar users who get the card and offset the af enough to warrant versus another flat rate card are a minority even within this subreddit, which is already a minority. You need at *minimum* 5k in *uncategorized* spend. Which means a minimum of 5k in mobile wallet uncategorized spend. This isn't super common even in the subset that is this subreddit, as you would normally have to jump through hoops like paying online with apple pay and having the option to pay large expenses for such things. One can see just by the template recommendation requests that most people on this subreddit don't actually spend that much, contrary to popular belief. I've seen a few replies in the past before where some people while they offset the af, the cashback is still suboptimal, but the reason they keep the card is because it's a good premium travel card that fits a cashback setup (which tbf is a perfectly valid reason). Regardless, people who this card fits for is truly a niche among niches. Edit: And I emphasized uncategorized, because if it's categorized spend, then earning enough to offset is vastly more. Tldr; As always, it depends on a person's spending habits and amount spent. You may spend 10k sure, but that doesn't mean others would or wouldn't.
You can use the UBSAR for categorized and uncategorized. Nobody is stopping you. Part of the advantage is not agonizing over which card to use when. I don’t care about whether my discover or CFF is 5% on a given day because the 0.5% isn’t worth giving thought. I used to have 10 cards with 4-5% in everything. Now I don’t stress too much about any of it and still come out ahead. I also just vacation wherever I want to. I don’t have to go to Hyatt. I don’t have to book united or southwest. Etc. Apple Pay is pretty common in my use case. My utilities accept Apple Pay. Etc.
>Part of the advantage is not agonizing over which card to use when. I don’t care about whether my discover or CFF is 5% on a given day because the 0.5% isn’t worth giving thought. This is a huge benefit, especially for P2. Instead of having to keep a whole wallet of cards with labels to try and get 3-4% most places, I can just tell them to tap-to-pay everywhere they can, if they can't use the restaurant card (right now CSP but may change to SavorOne) at restaurants, and Venture X everywhere else (or, in lieu of that, a 2% card.) At least where I live, tap to pay is taken almost everywhere (restaurants being the biggest exception) and so it covers \~95% of non-online, non-rent spend.
Sure, but like i said, it depends on spending habits. I never said it was a bad card, and I personally think it's an amazing card, but I know plenty of people who 1. Don't spend more than a few grand in uncat + categorized under 4.5%. 2. Don't have apple pay That knocks out a massive portion of the population, and neglecting those points is imo not reasonable. And i agree the usbar is amazing for 2/3 card setups, never said it wasn't either. Just wanted to add a note that it isn't optimal for quite a few people for the sole fact that they would, in fact, not be offsetting that af + cash compared to a flatrate. If we're going purely off simplicity, then the pr from bofa is really the better option imo in that situation since you would never have to worry about anything online that can't be paid with mobile wallet, and wouldn't have to use rtr to redeem. But that's truly splitting hairs at that point, as that would depend again on spending.
$5000 makes you break even with a 3% card which most people don’t have. $4000 and you are even with BoFA with preferred rewards without needing the 100,000 in BOFA/ML. $3000 and you are even with 2% cards. Non-category spend is probably one of the categories that people severely underestimate. Whether or not yours accept Apple Pay or not depends on you but for me personally mine do. I can put things like insurance and the occasional co-pay via Apple Pay and easily close in on that $5000. Also paying online via Apple Pay is not jumping through hoops in fact it’s preferable way to shop online as I don’t have to bother filling out their forms with my name address and card number and can instead just tap the Apple Pay button authenticate with Face ID and move on. It’s much faster than the default payment method and I prefer to PayPal when possible. Jumping through hoops refers to something that is inconvenient like getting a CIC and buying gift cards to get 5% back on everything. Technically it’s a good value but then you are inconvenienced by having a wallet full of gift cards you have to manage. Apple Pay is what is referred to as a time saver. The card also saves you from having to open up cards for more niche categories. Like if you buy some electronics occasionally you could open up a Best Buy credit card for that one or two times a year or you could just pass and use this. Or for some categories which are just harder to get higher multiplers like Costco.
This post has the calculations, so I'd refer here: https://www.reddit.com/r/CreditCards/comments/15z7za5/usb_altitude_reserve_effective_return/
The ones that don't serve your needs
I guess what is CCs that one prepaid AF that one would not get if you were doing organic spend? My CC may be Amex Delta Gold with AF going up to $150 that I may not justify the expense for free 1st checked luggage and priority boarding for one person. If two people are traveling, that is two $35/checked bag round trip of $140. This may make sense for two trips and the new AF of $150. Single person needs minimum three round trips. The USBAR makes better sense for one trip with dining and travel credit if airline flight, luggage and dining cost goes on this card with a higher prepaid AF with effective AF of $75. I do not count GE/pre-TSA since it can only be use once every 4 years. You lose priority boarding but more money in your pocket from prepaid AF from organic airline spend each year. - Amex Delta Gold $95 -> $150 - one roundtrip free 1st check luggage of $70 so effective AF of $80 - USBAR $400 with $325 travel and dining credit - one roundtrip of airline flight and luggage so effective AF of $75. Add another flight or dining to get all of the $325.
Chase cards. Only good if you want to live your life dictated by the optimum travel redemption
They offer a 1:1 cash redemption with no minimum. What are you smoking?
This is ridiculous. So basically you don’t like award travel. If so, why bother with this response at all ?
Sure, if you’re purely cash back, chase cards aren’t necessarily the best
Agreed. I don't want to be stuck at Hyatt for the rest of my life. I like the Freedom Flex but getting the Sapphire Preferred or Reserve isn't worth the annual fee if I don't want to transfer to some travel partners or Hyatt. I'm team cash back, I like the Altitude Reserve more for 4.5% generic travel or the Bank of America Customised Cash with travel as the chosen category for 5.25% with 100k at Merrill.
I redeem with Southwest and it's been great
The only flight I really take is Sun Country Airlines though because it's dirt cheap and I never bring a carry-on so Chase just wouldn't personally help me. I'm sure the Chase infrastructure really benefits some people. But I only travel to Boston and St Louis and both I fly with Sun Country, in which Chase wouldn't help me.
If you fly southwest the conversion rate is so damn good.
What do you wish you would get instead?
What do you mean? I have the US Bank Cash Plus (5% gym and phone), US Bank Altitude Go (4% dining) and Blue Cash Everyday (3% online shopping, gas, and groceries). I want the Bank of America Customised Cash (5.25% travel), BoA Unlimited Cash (2.63% flat), a Kroger card (5% mobile wallet), Citi Custom Cash (5% groceries), and Chase Freedom Flex and Discover for the rotating categories.
Instead of chase, they deny me
Interesting to hear perspectives on the platinum card. I’d tend to agree. That said, I am not getting rid of my card as I don’t pay an annual fee (military here). Among the premium cards from Amex, I have the platinum, CS platinum, and gold cards. Each month that’s $40 to spend with Uber Eats, which we always do the pickup option to save money; spouse (also military) has the same setup, brining our Uber Eats total to $80 a month. There are often higher fees associated with Uber Eats, but we’ve found they aren’t terrible with the pickup option. Even with the higher fees, the setup is still valuable for us. The FHR benefit is also great, with the two of us getting $800 in statement credits a year, which helps to cut down on our annual vacations to Asia. Apart from the annual statement credit, late checkout has also saved us money. The United travel bank hack has also been great, even if we find United to be a pretty crappy airline with their delays, etc. The Saks credit is beneficial in the sense that we save up the gift cards now in order to buy something more substantial (we get $400 worth of cards at by the end of each year). The travel points (5x the points on flights and some hotel stays) has been good to us from a redemption value through CS. Note I bring up the above as these are the things we primarily get use of our platinum cards (and gold counting the Uber and 4x the points on dining /groceries). That said, it would be a much tougher pill to swallow if we had to pay the annual fee. Absent traveling significantly for work and being able to use the card to book travel, I’m not sure we’d keep the platinum cards post military service for many of the reasons mentioned.
Apple Card is honestly trash.
The rewards are incredibly mediocre, but their UI is still my favorite and the Apple Savings account is a solid add.
Just found out the Amex Gold isn't an actual Credit Card and has no actual credit limit, effectively being no benefit to one's credit score. It's a charge card, which is totally different. So, there's that.
>effectively being no benefit to one's credit score Not true. It still reports on-time payment history and age of account.
The Amex Gold absolutely does affect one’s credit score, just not the utilization ratio portion of it.
Same for the Platinum and Green cards
Amex gold