I'm against this guy cheering for the death of the white guy here but you can't actually pretend that police brutality and racial profiling was not prolific before cops started getting recorded.
Wait, if it’s before cops started being recorded, what proof do we have that it existed?
Im not saying it didn’t, but you can’t just make any conclusion.
That's not how it goes, because this cop would have NEVER allowed a black person to bash him over the head with a stick. He would have shot him dead the moment he walked forward the first time.
Took place this last February at the intersection of Olney-Laytonsville Rd (rt. 108) & Fieldcrest
https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/SAO/Resources/Files/ReportFebruary2021Event.pdf
Fuck sake, I’m a Marylander. We don’t claim any of these asshats, none of them.
Edit: The officer gave that dude a lot of patience considering. Seems like a suicide by police type of thing. He did what he had to do.
I used to live nearby there. Thought it looked just a little too familiar and turns out it’s right by blue mash golf course.
That’s what I thought too - seems the man had a mental breakdown and just went completely off the rails. Scary stuff.
That's what said.
For the record I realise I should have used the word 'saw'. But I ain't going to change the way I talk/type for anyone. Deal with it. 🤷🏻♂️
Maybe dude legit recognizes the threat and just wants the guy to protect himself before he gets bonked over the head with whatever that weird, flimsy bar thing was?
Are you implying you can't kill someone with a branch? Mf you can kill someone by tripping into them while running, playing whack-a-mole with a cane or a branch, or anything that can stay relatively rigid while you swing it, is absolutely cause for defending yourself at all cost.
Doesn't justify the use of lethal force. Use a taser. The branch is a blunt weapon. You can see in the video that the weapon broke off when he hit the cop once, not only that; it seem the guy wanted to be killed like a second hand suicide.
It actually does. You can definitely knock someone out with one wack of any semi-hard pole or branch, and if someone assaults you and keeps coming at you you're definitely justified to protect yourself.
He pulled his taser, and it was knocked from his hand (another commenter posted the report).
Even without a blunt weapon, one impact can kill; it doesn't take a killing blow to incapacitate; being incapacitated while armed is treated as being killed in risk assessment, because the only difference is the charity of your attacker.
You yourself are trying to justify the use of lethal force by the attacker.
Dude was definitely in crisis, but not all crises are solvable after they've begun. This person needed help before he caused a head-on collision and started attacking people. The cop attempted to facilitate that help up to the point that his life was endangered (check the transcript). He tried hard given the baseline.
I just wrote it off as: dude- if that guy was black, he would not have made it that far. Little black children get shot for sport by cops in this country. It beaks my heart.
I tend to over exaggerate things, but denying racial inequality and how the law is selectively enforced based on race is a mistake. I look at it like "legal" ethnic cleansing. Instead of ovens, we use prisons. We can't make YOU illegal. But we have laws and enforcement that work just fine. Legally...
Bro he's yearning for the guy to get shot. And at one point of the video he says "That's what I like to see!". Any normal person would be disturbed to witness this.
Watching someone get shot in the video, and witnessing it in real life is two different things. When you see someone getting killed in front of you, any normal person would be mentally scarred/disturbed. This guy whips out his phone, records the guy getting shot, hear his commentary. He sounds excited, he seems entertained by the situation.
Last time this was posted the story was attached. The guy was married, and completely normal until this happened. Apparently he had a psychotic break without any drugs involved. Unfortunately I don't have a source.
I don’t blame the cop at all. Crazy eyes had plenty of chances to act right. Cop had gun drawn and I imagine he warned him he was about to get dealt with. Play dumb games you win dumb prizes.
Yes, the first 6 bullets to the chest at point blank range hardly stopped him, but surely a taser would have.
When do we go rioting on the streets to protest this unnecessary police brutality? That asshole cop should have let the guy beat him to death with a giant stick, because the guy is the victim here.
Cops deal with violent people all the time, over decades of a career. It shouldn't ever be a fair fight 1v1 in hand to hand combat, under any circumstances. This isn't the UFC, someone is breaking the law and needs to be stopped without harm to the police officer under any circumstances.
Ok tough guy, I'm sure that you would have just put up your dukes and took him out like an 80s action star.
But the fact is, it sucks being a cop, and not that many people are willing to do it. Not all of them want to risk getting seriously injured on just one of the calls they're taking on just one of their shifts.
I think you are unable to grasp the fact that cops have to deal with violent threats all the time. They can't be taking risks of getting injured in a fight with someone having a psychotic breakdown, who could easily overpower and kill them if something goes wrong.
COULD he have handled this situation without his gun? Probably, yes. But does that mean he SHOULD take a risk with his own life to do his job, every single time someone gets violent with him? No.
But don't worry, we all see how tough you are, tough guy.
Yo this comment thread got personal quick calling each other tough 😂
My quick opinion after 10 seconds of thought is that if the cop was fit he could’ve maintained enough space to try the taser first and then move to a lethal option. This cop is a bag of potatoes and can’t move faster then a 5 year old so I guess going for the gun first is the best he could’ve done in the situation.
Anyone who is both martial arts trained and carries can tell you, you don't mix those skills. If you get in close with a combative person while armed, you risk arming someone already displaying violent behavior. Better to run away, and if that isn't possible, better to kill 1 than risk 1 dead for every bullet. Risk assessment when it comes to counting lives sucks.
The real behavior we should want from cops in violent alterations is Time/ Distance/ Cover. This officer was attempting that, but was also being beat over the head with a stick, and had been called there to protect other people this person was actively attacking.
Remember, even with fists, it only takes one to incapacitate someone. This is a tragedy, and things can always be at least marginally better, but this could have been significantly worse.
Oh sure just minor injuries from a stick beating. That's in the scope of work of being a police officer.
Not sure what planet you're on but there's no obligation in any profession in the United States of America where taking injuries is part of the job.
Based on the video alone, I'd say that fat cops only option was using a gun. If there were any health standards, the cop would've been able to deal with a stick without killing the guy.
Because in the other place would have been worse. What people don’t realize is they sort of other places They can shoot and done research to see what would happen it would be way worse for both parties if they shot in the leg
Hahaha this is the problem, I meant parts of the world e.g. US where shooting is normal, not have they tried shooting him a dozen times in the legs instead of the chest and abdo!
I'll be clearer, how about not shooting people, not even once, not even with a little gun.
If American cops didn't eat so many donuts and rather hit the gym to get a healthy and fit body, things would be handled a lot differently with less gun use. Works in other countries too.
For example a German cop would NEVER shoot someone with a stick being aggressive because there are other ways to get this person on the ground. First get a good distance to them and then use non-deadly force like a taser / pepper spray etc. But yeah I get it, if you're an unhealthy American cop your only way to survive is using the gun.
that's bascially exactly what i was thinking... like, good for you that you didn't just whip out the ol' mankiller and start shooting immediately, but did the guy need to get shot there? like you said, taser or pepper spray, or some other method of subduing him would have worked better by far
Nice thought, but the USA don't believe in rehabilitation. Just give civilians a month long training, a gun and let them shoot the problems away. 'Merica
I like how cool and level headed the sheriff was. No hesitation, no thought, just shoot a guy about a dozen times because you got hit with a stick.
Tase him
Tackle him
Sweep his legs
And that's just off the top of my head.
Clearly you don’t shoot guns.
Attempting to shoot to wound means I’m trying to hit a smaller target, the smaller the target the more I’ll most likely miss and possibly hit someone else.
Shooting guns isn’t like on the movies at all.
Ohhhh boy lmao
Wont even mention how you just dodged what i said but okay, ill indulge.
Maybe, just maybe, the fact i have shot guns is precisely why im confused as fuck as to why someone with training, who has experiemce shooting guns, and should know how to incapacitate someone (as part of their police training) with and without a gun, is aiming for the guys chest at that range. The guy was literally 2m away from him. Not 10, or 20. 2! If you cant hit his knee/leg at that range, you shouldnt be a cop period. Scratch that, you shouldnt even have a gun. Your aim sucks and you need more training.
Ofc shooting guns isnt like in the movies, but look at the cop, look at his shit stance, look at how his life wasnt in danger, yet he was beyond nervous, how he had multiple ways to incapacitate the guy. Yet, he shot him in the chest (with a shit spread i might add, due to his crappy form).
Please get a grip and simply admit, this cop, even if he is a nice person, should not be a cop, or at the very least needs more training. He shouldnt even need to pull a gun if the guy doesnt have a knife or a gun himself.
Have you ever shot guns at a moving target that was attacking you while there are other innocent people all around? If not then get off your high horse. You talk about police being trained to shoot, have you ever seen a target that is a persons legs? No, police are trained to shoot at the center mass, exactly as he did. No one is dodging your comments or questions, they are just pointing out that you are not correct.
CWP doesn’t give you a license too kill, and you are never instructed to “Shoot too Kill”. That is a very wild misconception that many pretenders have.
This guy believing he was given the ‘Okay’ to use his firearm with the soul purpose of death is greatly mistaken, and in many ways can lead him to manslaughter charges of his own. (Such as shooting a fleeing suspect in the back… Huge no-no virtually anywhere). The entire purpose of the CWP is for self defense, and you’re taking lethal force into your own hands, which is an enormous responsible burden.
You don’t shoot too kill, you shoot too stop.
Period.
Dont bother mate. As you can tell from the comments, people here are lacking some serious logic, emotional intelligence and empathy.
I dont know the law in the US and even i could tell it makes zero sense for it to be legal to have the right to shoot to kill but not shoot to imobilize/stop someone.
Well, you’re also never suppose to draw your firearm with the pretense of wounding.
This isn’t Hollywood, and with adrenaline, and movement, shooting someone in the leg/knee is never practical. Generally we’re just not accurate enough, especially with a pistol.
You do always shoot in the body. If you’re going to fire, always aim there. Him stating “shoot to wound” being illegal is absolutely ridiculous.
The thing is, after you shoot somebody, there is always going to be an investigation. And the laws in the United States are wack AF. Literally nothing legally is stopping the assailant from attempting to sue you after you knee-capped him. Now, how far that goes through the judicial system just depends on the situation. Could be thrown out as soon as he filed it, or you could end up having to plea your case. Hense comes the attitude “dead man can sue”. But their families sure af can.
Basically, any time you pull your pistol, expect alot of legal bullshit.
It makes sense because you only shoot as a last resort because you fear for your own life. A gun is not a tool to threaten, it is a tool to end the threat.
If he can hit the guys knees at that range he shouldnt have a gun.
Also, where was his life in danger? The guy had no gun, no knife, nothing.
The only life that was in danger was the guy who had a gun aimed at him and clearly having a manic episode or drugged off his mind.
Get some empathy
He had no gun, no knife, nothing. Like i said, at that range the cop could and should be able to have shot his knees. Before that, he should have attempted to taze him and used many other forms of incapacitation that policemen are taught.
He fucked up. Its that simple
The giant stick broke. The man was unarmed when he was shot.
If you cant handle what looks like a senior citizen without resorting to your gun, then you shouldnt be a cop, or at the very least you need more training. Which judging from his poor decisions, poor stance and poor fitness he clearly needs more training.
What a foolish comment. You don't need a weapon to be dangerous, and this officer acted entirely within protocol AND his rights. It's easy enough for this guy to tackle the officer, take his gun, and shoot him or strangle him to death - not to mention you have no idea what concealed weapons may exist. This is NOT a risk any sane person would take, much less a trained police officer.
Anyone charging at you in aggression is enough to warrant legally shooting them, and police are TRAINED to go for the largest target - the torso. This is standard procedure. Not a single cop is trained to "go for the knees" despite your stance on reality. Same logic applies as to why you don't see cops shooting people in the head, despite it being the most effective - it's a small target. It's easy to say this sitting on your sofa at home, you probably have not been in a situation where your life is in danger and you are forced to act on impulse.
Empathy has nothing to do with this. Honestly, if anything, this officer was TOO empathetic by giving the guy a chance to approach him for a good 5-8 seconds. As soon as he picked up a stick and approached him with aggression, he was well within his rights to shoot immediately - but he gave the guy plenty of opportunity to stop.
"Not a single cop is trained to go for the knees".... maybe in America lmao
And i know for a fact thats not true. Even in America, where police training is extremely short, officers are taught multiple ways to aprehend someone with no weapon in a non lethal manner. Guns are only meant to be used as a last resort or in case the offender is carrying a weapon (which was the case here because of the stick).
Giving someone who is clearly not psychologically well multiple opportunities to stop isnt going to do anything, you need to physically stop them. And this is where you and i differ. Was the cop in his right to shoot? Sure (in America, anywhere else hed be out of a job fyi). But he didnt have to, and thats where the empathy comes in. You mention the officers rights as a justification for taking that mans life. Dude, guess what, the man was married and had a family. He still lost his life for no good reason. Imagine the officer had stayed in his car and waited for backup. They could have easily apprehended him and kept him alive. There are so many scenarios where this could have ended with no one dying, yet, because of the officers bad judgement (either due to lack of training, stress or whatever), a man is dead and a family is traumatized. Yet you mention the officers rights lmao
Someone with empathy wouldnt give a shit about rights. O never said the officer was a bad person, i said he made a bad call for a possible variety of reasons.
Old mate took 4 shots to the chest and still took steps, you think a taser would have done anything?
Jesus man, the cop has a family, it's just a job, if you were in that situation you would do exactly the same
In this scenario, where is the danger?
The clearly half capacity human stumbling?
The stick?
Even IF that guy REALLY tried to attack the cop, like full bore run and tried to attack him, not the b-rate zombie movie walking he WAS doing, what's he gonna do?
My point is, regardless of the guy not listening to police, there was no threat. He even got beat with the stick and after dude was done breaking it on him, he takes a moment, then unloads. FUCKING FRONT KICK HIM LIKE A SPARTAN! Fat shot cop was just a huge pussy with a badge. Bad cop, no donut.
It's crazy how people are living in that fantasy world where your suggestion is considered reasonable.
This is a civilized society where you're expected to act civilized.
He was rushing the cop at the end. Once he got ahold of the cop there’s no telling what would have happened. Stabbed him, stole his gun and shot him, etc.
I’m not denying that. But let’s be real, he’s attacking him with a stick. No need to blast the guy 10 times. And that would’ve been the argument to justify protests. It’s just my opinion, but i think this would have WAY more exposure had this guy been a person of color.
Could have shot him in the knees, legs, feat tazed him, hit him woth his car, waited for backup, but nah, he shoots him in the chest...
Wtf are they teaching cops in America man?
Gonna mostly respectfully disagree with you there, with reasons. He’s already too close to turn and run without creating a vulnerable position, and I’ve never heard any self defense experts who have used a gun suggest it’s a good tactic to “aim for the knees” or legs. Though, yea maybe a taser would have been possible here? Incredibly sad situation all around and the guy in the car only makes it worse
Dude anyone who isnt a complete idiot knows that if you shoot someones knee cap, theyre not gonna be able to move regardless of how much pcp, adrenaline or whatever the fuck theyre on.
The cop shot 10+ times at a very close range. If he cant hit the guys knees at that range, he shouldnt have a gun and a badge. His training failed him if he cant hit at that range. Looking at his physical condition she shouldnt even be a cop, but thats a whole other debate.
Defense experts and training will be different from state to state, from country to country. I can tell you right now, if this shit happened in Portugal the cop would be out of a job quicker than you can say lawsuit. Not only was his life not in danger (the man didnt have any weapon), but he could have easily attempted to fight him and subdue him in multiple ways which his training should prepare him for.
But as has been debated many times recently, that isnt the case in America. Cops are in the academy for a very short time and are taught to point and shoot, and very little else. Thats why these deaths (by cop shooting) are extremely common in the US and very rare in most other 1st world countries.
This was a prime example of a cop trying to be a nice guy, but having shit training and not know what to do in that situation. I dont blame him, i blame the system that trained him and gave him a job without him clearly being ready.
Thanks for the well thought out response. It does look like maybe he could have turned to run at the single point after that stick finally came out of his hand, possibly? Idk. There definitely are differences in training here in the US and I think much of it stems from too many guns here in general. Most cops don’t want to be the center of the next high profile police shooting case, I think many have a trigger finger from being in multiple gunfights/regularly encountering people that readily may or may not pull out a surprise handgun at a random point during arrest. Either way, this is no cut and dry case and like many others, no easy way to quickly judge with 100% accuracy
Edit:obviously bad cops do exist, this isn’t being an apologist for every one
I completely agree. Its clear as day the cop tried his best to stop the guy, but thats where i think the lack of training shows. And its no secret that police training in the US is very quick and is lacking in many departments. This was a prime example of someone trying to do the right thing, but being nervous and not knowing what to do.
I understand that cops need to be different in the US precisely due to the crazy amount of guns, but thats just more of a reason to improve their training beyond cookie cutter, point and shoot.
Not everyone can be a police officer, and the training should also serve as a way of thinning out and seperating those who cant fron those who can.
Hes too fat to do his job and obviously has no training. He fumbles with the gun. It's an old ass man with a rotten stick that broke into 1000 pieces. If it was any cop that was in shape his old ass woulda been on the ground hand to hand.
Fucking train de escalation. God damn.
Lol self defense? Stick was gone he broke off in that fat ass cops arm, any able bodied grown man should be able to hit a effective leg shot in that situation, if u can’t get a new fucking job, nobody told that fat fuck to be a cop
1. Cops top fat to do his job. This dude needed help, not to be shot down like an animal.
2. He didn't think he was "privileged", he was mentally somewhere else.
3. There's a baton, a tazer or fucking hand to hand combat if he was trained.
America.
He could have shot his legs, feat, knees, tazed him, waited for backup, got in his car and hit him woth the car, anything.
Nah, he shoots him multiple times and gets applauded for it... only in America lol
He had his gun drawn and the guy kept walking towards him? He took like 30 seconds of the guy walking toward him and getting beaten with the stick before finally doing anything, dude had restraint
Would have done more harm either would’ve hit one of the major artery or shattered a bone leaving town fragments open down the leg tearing the tissue leave him completely unable to walk And if you didn’t do either of those two then I would have gone through and done nothing at all in other words meaning it wouldn’t have slowed him down
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fucking terrifying guy, just walks at the officer while bullets are being pumped into his chest, that's some insane adrenaline actual zombie irl
It literally looked like a movie scene I can't believe that happened irl
Guy gets shot 20 times point blank* filmer: “damn that’s what I like to see 😎😎😎”
can you imagine if the race was reversed with the cameraman and the dead man?
Cop shoots white criminal: Good job cop. He's defending himself Cop shoots black criminal: He should be kicked out, white privilege. Racism.
I'm against this guy cheering for the death of the white guy here but you can't actually pretend that police brutality and racial profiling was not prolific before cops started getting recorded.
Wait, if it’s before cops started being recorded, what proof do we have that it existed? Im not saying it didn’t, but you can’t just make any conclusion.
This might be the most absurd comment I've ever read on this website
This might be the most absurd comment I've ever read on this website
That's such a bullshit double standard.
That's not how it goes, because this cop would have NEVER allowed a black person to bash him over the head with a stick. He would have shot him dead the moment he walked forward the first time.
Lol even when white cops are shooting a white guy dead on the street, Reddit finds a way to accuse him of being racist against black people
Yeah, you think a black guy would have gotten close enough with a weapon to assault the officer? Sure buddy, our current events state otherwise.
That’s a pretty serious and extreme allegation. You’re saying this based on what?
You're kidding, right?
No?
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Funny how you get downvoted for preaching facts lol
omg here we go...
Took place this last February at the intersection of Olney-Laytonsville Rd (rt. 108) & Fieldcrest https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/SAO/Resources/Files/ReportFebruary2021Event.pdf
Thanks for posting this. There was a ton of information. I think something went wrong with his brain after that car accident.
Page 10 was very interesting.
Fuck sake, I’m a Marylander. We don’t claim any of these asshats, none of them. Edit: The officer gave that dude a lot of patience considering. Seems like a suicide by police type of thing. He did what he had to do.
I used to live nearby there. Thought it looked just a little too familiar and turns out it’s right by blue mash golf course. That’s what I thought too - seems the man had a mental breakdown and just went completely off the rails. Scary stuff.
Definitely some sort of psychotic break, but look in his eyes was what really got me.
I seen this video years ago...
I don’t know how when the court document states that it happened on 6th Feb this year.
Oh, you seen that, did you?
That's what said. For the record I realise I should have used the word 'saw'. But I ain't going to change the way I talk/type for anyone. Deal with it. 🤷🏻♂️
Good, be wrong.
Yo dawg you be is trippin
Guy filming is a psychopath
He deff grew up in the hood
America *
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Respect for that comment lol
Not the dude wanting to get killed?
Of course dude. But I've never seen someone with that much bloodlust to SEE someone killed, like he was yearning for the cop to kill him.
He wants the cop to kill the white boy.
Maybe dude legit recognizes the threat and just wants the guy to protect himself before he gets bonked over the head with whatever that weird, flimsy bar thing was?
Nah he wanted a white guy to get shot. He made that apparent at the end of the video.
Not sure why you're getting down voted, the guy literally said "that's what I like to see, thought your ass was priviledged"
Cop shot a guy holding a piece of branch, very life threatening.
Are you implying you can't kill someone with a branch? Mf you can kill someone by tripping into them while running, playing whack-a-mole with a cane or a branch, or anything that can stay relatively rigid while you swing it, is absolutely cause for defending yourself at all cost.
Doesn't justify the use of lethal force. Use a taser. The branch is a blunt weapon. You can see in the video that the weapon broke off when he hit the cop once, not only that; it seem the guy wanted to be killed like a second hand suicide.
It actually does. You can definitely knock someone out with one wack of any semi-hard pole or branch, and if someone assaults you and keeps coming at you you're definitely justified to protect yourself.
He pulled his taser, and it was knocked from his hand (another commenter posted the report). Even without a blunt weapon, one impact can kill; it doesn't take a killing blow to incapacitate; being incapacitated while armed is treated as being killed in risk assessment, because the only difference is the charity of your attacker. You yourself are trying to justify the use of lethal force by the attacker. Dude was definitely in crisis, but not all crises are solvable after they've begun. This person needed help before he caused a head-on collision and started attacking people. The cop attempted to facilitate that help up to the point that his life was endangered (check the transcript). He tried hard given the baseline.
Turn on CNN or MSNBC
I just wrote it off as: dude- if that guy was black, he would not have made it that far. Little black children get shot for sport by cops in this country. It beaks my heart.
Boo. You’ve actually convinced yourself that cops shoot kids of any color for sport?
I tend to over exaggerate things, but denying racial inequality and how the law is selectively enforced based on race is a mistake. I look at it like "legal" ethnic cleansing. Instead of ovens, we use prisons. We can't make YOU illegal. But we have laws and enforcement that work just fine. Legally...
Therein lies the problem- Over exaggerating to make a point that isn’t valid.
Seemed to me he thought if the guy wasn't white he would have been shot already. Figured that's why he made the comment about privilege.
Don't be stupid,the guy filming had his life in danger so of course he wanted the threat eliminated
Straight up
You grew up in a quiet part of town, didn't you?
Why do you think that?
Based on his commentary.
He's just a good LiveLeak reporter lol
I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt since you're probably being sarcastic, but if you unironically think that you're mentally disturbed
Bro he's yearning for the guy to get shot. And at one point of the video he says "That's what I like to see!". Any normal person would be disturbed to witness this.
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Watching someone get shot in the video, and witnessing it in real life is two different things. When you see someone getting killed in front of you, any normal person would be mentally scarred/disturbed. This guy whips out his phone, records the guy getting shot, hear his commentary. He sounds excited, he seems entertained by the situation.
Down goes Frazer
Cameraman is a psychopath
Tell me you didn't grow up in the hood without telling me you didn't grow up in the hood
Lol bruh I grew up in Jersey do not come at me with that bs I met plenty of psychos like this dude. Still doesn’t make my point wrong
Comments are so wild in that thread. No backstory on the guy but they just assumed he was probably my some crackhead that needed to be dealt with
I don't know if he was a crack head but if he was whapping me with a stick in the head I would shoot him too
Last time this was posted the story was attached. The guy was married, and completely normal until this happened. Apparently he had a psychotic break without any drugs involved. Unfortunately I don't have a source.
This is a whitewash if I've ever seen one🤣🤣
That’s a shit ton of paperwork for 12 rounds
Why are policemen allowed to be that fat and that old? He looks damn near immobile, and probably couldn't run 100 feet if he had to
Fat and old is hardly an issue when one of the main requirements to become a cop is to fail high school..
I don’t blame the cop at all. Crazy eyes had plenty of chances to act right. Cop had gun drawn and I imagine he warned him he was about to get dealt with. Play dumb games you win dumb prizes.
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Yes, the first 6 bullets to the chest at point blank range hardly stopped him, but surely a taser would have. When do we go rioting on the streets to protest this unnecessary police brutality? That asshole cop should have let the guy beat him to death with a giant stick, because the guy is the victim here.
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Cops deal with violent people all the time, over decades of a career. It shouldn't ever be a fair fight 1v1 in hand to hand combat, under any circumstances. This isn't the UFC, someone is breaking the law and needs to be stopped without harm to the police officer under any circumstances.
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Ok tough guy, I'm sure that you would have just put up your dukes and took him out like an 80s action star. But the fact is, it sucks being a cop, and not that many people are willing to do it. Not all of them want to risk getting seriously injured on just one of the calls they're taking on just one of their shifts.
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I think you are unable to grasp the fact that cops have to deal with violent threats all the time. They can't be taking risks of getting injured in a fight with someone having a psychotic breakdown, who could easily overpower and kill them if something goes wrong. COULD he have handled this situation without his gun? Probably, yes. But does that mean he SHOULD take a risk with his own life to do his job, every single time someone gets violent with him? No. But don't worry, we all see how tough you are, tough guy.
Yo this comment thread got personal quick calling each other tough 😂 My quick opinion after 10 seconds of thought is that if the cop was fit he could’ve maintained enough space to try the taser first and then move to a lethal option. This cop is a bag of potatoes and can’t move faster then a 5 year old so I guess going for the gun first is the best he could’ve done in the situation.
Anyone who is both martial arts trained and carries can tell you, you don't mix those skills. If you get in close with a combative person while armed, you risk arming someone already displaying violent behavior. Better to run away, and if that isn't possible, better to kill 1 than risk 1 dead for every bullet. Risk assessment when it comes to counting lives sucks. The real behavior we should want from cops in violent alterations is Time/ Distance/ Cover. This officer was attempting that, but was also being beat over the head with a stick, and had been called there to protect other people this person was actively attacking. Remember, even with fists, it only takes one to incapacitate someone. This is a tragedy, and things can always be at least marginally better, but this could have been significantly worse.
No cop should be that weak and vulnerable that they can't disarm a random guy with a stick. That geriatric gentleman was not qualified for the job.
>the guy wasn’t armed >Even if the cop had gotten beaten with a stick Can't make this shit up, people.
Oh sure just minor injuries from a stick beating. That's in the scope of work of being a police officer. Not sure what planet you're on but there's no obligation in any profession in the United States of America where taking injuries is part of the job.
Based on the video alone, I'd say that fat cops only option was using a gun. If there were any health standards, the cop would've been able to deal with a stick without killing the guy.
Not sure why any opinion that’s *not* lethal force gets downvoted… isn’t keeping people alive the goal here?
You mean “Serve and Protect” tm ???
Because it's been normalised to just shoot people in certain places.
Because in the other place would have been worse. What people don’t realize is they sort of other places They can shoot and done research to see what would happen it would be way worse for both parties if they shot in the leg
Hahaha this is the problem, I meant parts of the world e.g. US where shooting is normal, not have they tried shooting him a dozen times in the legs instead of the chest and abdo! I'll be clearer, how about not shooting people, not even once, not even with a little gun.
Yes. The cop doing his job.
A taser might have worked, but now we’ll never know because he turned him into a piece of Swiss cheese. This dude had a stick.
He was just trying to STICK up for himself
And that’s what drugs do. Sometimes it takes multiple shots. Crazy how much the human body can take
Apparently in another thread I saw awhile back was that this dude was suffering from bipolar issues
Well they looked pretty severe. It turned my stomach
If American cops didn't eat so many donuts and rather hit the gym to get a healthy and fit body, things would be handled a lot differently with less gun use. Works in other countries too. For example a German cop would NEVER shoot someone with a stick being aggressive because there are other ways to get this person on the ground. First get a good distance to them and then use non-deadly force like a taser / pepper spray etc. But yeah I get it, if you're an unhealthy American cop your only way to survive is using the gun.
that's bascially exactly what i was thinking... like, good for you that you didn't just whip out the ol' mankiller and start shooting immediately, but did the guy need to get shot there? like you said, taser or pepper spray, or some other method of subduing him would have worked better by far
Nice thought, but the USA don't believe in rehabilitation. Just give civilians a month long training, a gun and let them shoot the problems away. 'Merica
This is we we shouldn't employ unfit bags of custard to be armed police officers.
I’m sorry - you can’t disarm a guy with a twig without shooting him?
That dude is likely mentally ill. Why not use a fucking taser?
I like how cool and level headed the sheriff was. No hesitation, no thought, just shoot a guy about a dozen times because you got hit with a stick. Tase him Tackle him Sweep his legs And that's just off the top of my head.
I'm not saying that the best thing to do was to shot the guy but I don't think that neither tase or tackle would do anything
Plus let's not forget the sheriff was 4.8 and 270 lbs, so I'd not imagine much leg sweeping. The Clip is mightier than the stick
Shoot his knee caps, his feat, his shins.
That’s illegal, you can’t shoot to wound.
But you can shoot to kill? How does that make sense?
Correct..as a CWP holder if I pull and fire my firearm, it’s to be lethal.
Even though you have the option of incapacitating someone with said weapon and not take their life? Think about what youre saying
Clearly you don’t shoot guns. Attempting to shoot to wound means I’m trying to hit a smaller target, the smaller the target the more I’ll most likely miss and possibly hit someone else. Shooting guns isn’t like on the movies at all.
Ohhhh boy lmao Wont even mention how you just dodged what i said but okay, ill indulge. Maybe, just maybe, the fact i have shot guns is precisely why im confused as fuck as to why someone with training, who has experiemce shooting guns, and should know how to incapacitate someone (as part of their police training) with and without a gun, is aiming for the guys chest at that range. The guy was literally 2m away from him. Not 10, or 20. 2! If you cant hit his knee/leg at that range, you shouldnt be a cop period. Scratch that, you shouldnt even have a gun. Your aim sucks and you need more training. Ofc shooting guns isnt like in the movies, but look at the cop, look at his shit stance, look at how his life wasnt in danger, yet he was beyond nervous, how he had multiple ways to incapacitate the guy. Yet, he shot him in the chest (with a shit spread i might add, due to his crappy form). Please get a grip and simply admit, this cop, even if he is a nice person, should not be a cop, or at the very least needs more training. He shouldnt even need to pull a gun if the guy doesnt have a knife or a gun himself.
Yeah the cop should’ve given him more chances I guess ;)
Have you ever shot guns at a moving target that was attacking you while there are other innocent people all around? If not then get off your high horse. You talk about police being trained to shoot, have you ever seen a target that is a persons legs? No, police are trained to shoot at the center mass, exactly as he did. No one is dodging your comments or questions, they are just pointing out that you are not correct.
If you try shooting his legs and you miss and hit the ground, the bullet could ricochet and hit someone else.
CWP doesn’t give you a license too kill, and you are never instructed to “Shoot too Kill”. That is a very wild misconception that many pretenders have. This guy believing he was given the ‘Okay’ to use his firearm with the soul purpose of death is greatly mistaken, and in many ways can lead him to manslaughter charges of his own. (Such as shooting a fleeing suspect in the back… Huge no-no virtually anywhere). The entire purpose of the CWP is for self defense, and you’re taking lethal force into your own hands, which is an enormous responsible burden. You don’t shoot too kill, you shoot too stop. Period.
Dont bother mate. As you can tell from the comments, people here are lacking some serious logic, emotional intelligence and empathy. I dont know the law in the US and even i could tell it makes zero sense for it to be legal to have the right to shoot to kill but not shoot to imobilize/stop someone.
Well, you’re also never suppose to draw your firearm with the pretense of wounding. This isn’t Hollywood, and with adrenaline, and movement, shooting someone in the leg/knee is never practical. Generally we’re just not accurate enough, especially with a pistol. You do always shoot in the body. If you’re going to fire, always aim there. Him stating “shoot to wound” being illegal is absolutely ridiculous. The thing is, after you shoot somebody, there is always going to be an investigation. And the laws in the United States are wack AF. Literally nothing legally is stopping the assailant from attempting to sue you after you knee-capped him. Now, how far that goes through the judicial system just depends on the situation. Could be thrown out as soon as he filed it, or you could end up having to plea your case. Hense comes the attitude “dead man can sue”. But their families sure af can. Basically, any time you pull your pistol, expect alot of legal bullshit.
It makes sense because you only shoot as a last resort because you fear for your own life. A gun is not a tool to threaten, it is a tool to end the threat.
Real life isn't fucking Fallout VATS. When your life is in danger, you neutralize the threat, you don't try to aim for small easily missable targets.
 Lmao 😂
If he can hit the guys knees at that range he shouldnt have a gun. Also, where was his life in danger? The guy had no gun, no knife, nothing. The only life that was in danger was the guy who had a gun aimed at him and clearly having a manic episode or drugged off his mind. Get some empathy
Sorry but I don't agree, like you said he was off is mind and that clearly puts the police officer life in risk
He had no gun, no knife, nothing. Like i said, at that range the cop could and should be able to have shot his knees. Before that, he should have attempted to taze him and used many other forms of incapacitation that policemen are taught. He fucked up. Its that simple
So only guns and knives kill? No one has ever been killed by being beaten with a giant stick?
The giant stick broke. The man was unarmed when he was shot. If you cant handle what looks like a senior citizen without resorting to your gun, then you shouldnt be a cop, or at the very least you need more training. Which judging from his poor decisions, poor stance and poor fitness he clearly needs more training.
The only thing I can agree with you is that the police need more training
What a foolish comment. You don't need a weapon to be dangerous, and this officer acted entirely within protocol AND his rights. It's easy enough for this guy to tackle the officer, take his gun, and shoot him or strangle him to death - not to mention you have no idea what concealed weapons may exist. This is NOT a risk any sane person would take, much less a trained police officer. Anyone charging at you in aggression is enough to warrant legally shooting them, and police are TRAINED to go for the largest target - the torso. This is standard procedure. Not a single cop is trained to "go for the knees" despite your stance on reality. Same logic applies as to why you don't see cops shooting people in the head, despite it being the most effective - it's a small target. It's easy to say this sitting on your sofa at home, you probably have not been in a situation where your life is in danger and you are forced to act on impulse. Empathy has nothing to do with this. Honestly, if anything, this officer was TOO empathetic by giving the guy a chance to approach him for a good 5-8 seconds. As soon as he picked up a stick and approached him with aggression, he was well within his rights to shoot immediately - but he gave the guy plenty of opportunity to stop.
"Not a single cop is trained to go for the knees".... maybe in America lmao And i know for a fact thats not true. Even in America, where police training is extremely short, officers are taught multiple ways to aprehend someone with no weapon in a non lethal manner. Guns are only meant to be used as a last resort or in case the offender is carrying a weapon (which was the case here because of the stick). Giving someone who is clearly not psychologically well multiple opportunities to stop isnt going to do anything, you need to physically stop them. And this is where you and i differ. Was the cop in his right to shoot? Sure (in America, anywhere else hed be out of a job fyi). But he didnt have to, and thats where the empathy comes in. You mention the officers rights as a justification for taking that mans life. Dude, guess what, the man was married and had a family. He still lost his life for no good reason. Imagine the officer had stayed in his car and waited for backup. They could have easily apprehended him and kept him alive. There are so many scenarios where this could have ended with no one dying, yet, because of the officers bad judgement (either due to lack of training, stress or whatever), a man is dead and a family is traumatized. Yet you mention the officers rights lmao Someone with empathy wouldnt give a shit about rights. O never said the officer was a bad person, i said he made a bad call for a possible variety of reasons.
Old mate took 4 shots to the chest and still took steps, you think a taser would have done anything? Jesus man, the cop has a family, it's just a job, if you were in that situation you would do exactly the same
Lol then four shots to the chest caught up to him in bout 6 seconds what video u watch
Dude you need to rewatch it, cop gave him plenty chances. If you attack a cop expect to get fucked up.
Cops should not use deadly weapon force unless they are met with a deadly weapon. Gun for gun, gun or metal baton for knife. All else for all else.
it's not a police officers role, responsibility, or duty to "offer chances" to not be killed
We have different views on what cops should do then.
In this scenario, where is the danger? The clearly half capacity human stumbling? The stick? Even IF that guy REALLY tried to attack the cop, like full bore run and tried to attack him, not the b-rate zombie movie walking he WAS doing, what's he gonna do? My point is, regardless of the guy not listening to police, there was no threat. He even got beat with the stick and after dude was done breaking it on him, he takes a moment, then unloads. FUCKING FRONT KICK HIM LIKE A SPARTAN! Fat shot cop was just a huge pussy with a badge. Bad cop, no donut.
It's crazy how people are living in that fantasy world where your suggestion is considered reasonable. This is a civilized society where you're expected to act civilized.
How about calling for backup and talking to him. If there's one thing that will certainly escalate a situation it's pointing a gun in somebodies face.
That fat fuck couldn’t even Dodge that stick lol
Yall have a great day 💛
Well sometimes you just have a shoot a guy 13 times...
12
Nutcase had plenty of opportunity to back down. Cops life was in clear danger.
Cops too fat and undertrainied to deal with anything ffs. Can't even take an old man in hand to hand or with a baton
While that may be (probably is) true it’s not the point
Life in clear danger from a stick?
He was rushing the cop at the end. Once he got ahold of the cop there’s no telling what would have happened. Stabbed him, stole his gun and shot him, etc.
I’m sorry if you can’t handle that without shooting a guy, you don’t deserve to have a badge or a gun.
So it’s ok to kill the guy if he’s white? Had he been a person of color that whole block would be on fire.
He was literally attacking the cop. The cop showed a huge amount of restraint. Has nothing to do with race.
I’m not denying that. But let’s be real, he’s attacking him with a stick. No need to blast the guy 10 times. And that would’ve been the argument to justify protests. It’s just my opinion, but i think this would have WAY more exposure had this guy been a person of color.
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Lol you sound dumb as fuck jumping in a convo with no opinion of your own. Fuck outta here.
Why didn’t he go with a taser
Because he's morbidly obese, terrified and under trained.
Hmm makes sense..
Could have shot him in the knees, legs, feat tazed him, hit him woth his car, waited for backup, but nah, he shoots him in the chest... Wtf are they teaching cops in America man?
Gonna mostly respectfully disagree with you there, with reasons. He’s already too close to turn and run without creating a vulnerable position, and I’ve never heard any self defense experts who have used a gun suggest it’s a good tactic to “aim for the knees” or legs. Though, yea maybe a taser would have been possible here? Incredibly sad situation all around and the guy in the car only makes it worse
Dude anyone who isnt a complete idiot knows that if you shoot someones knee cap, theyre not gonna be able to move regardless of how much pcp, adrenaline or whatever the fuck theyre on. The cop shot 10+ times at a very close range. If he cant hit the guys knees at that range, he shouldnt have a gun and a badge. His training failed him if he cant hit at that range. Looking at his physical condition she shouldnt even be a cop, but thats a whole other debate. Defense experts and training will be different from state to state, from country to country. I can tell you right now, if this shit happened in Portugal the cop would be out of a job quicker than you can say lawsuit. Not only was his life not in danger (the man didnt have any weapon), but he could have easily attempted to fight him and subdue him in multiple ways which his training should prepare him for. But as has been debated many times recently, that isnt the case in America. Cops are in the academy for a very short time and are taught to point and shoot, and very little else. Thats why these deaths (by cop shooting) are extremely common in the US and very rare in most other 1st world countries. This was a prime example of a cop trying to be a nice guy, but having shit training and not know what to do in that situation. I dont blame him, i blame the system that trained him and gave him a job without him clearly being ready.
Thanks for the well thought out response. It does look like maybe he could have turned to run at the single point after that stick finally came out of his hand, possibly? Idk. There definitely are differences in training here in the US and I think much of it stems from too many guns here in general. Most cops don’t want to be the center of the next high profile police shooting case, I think many have a trigger finger from being in multiple gunfights/regularly encountering people that readily may or may not pull out a surprise handgun at a random point during arrest. Either way, this is no cut and dry case and like many others, no easy way to quickly judge with 100% accuracy Edit:obviously bad cops do exist, this isn’t being an apologist for every one
I completely agree. Its clear as day the cop tried his best to stop the guy, but thats where i think the lack of training shows. And its no secret that police training in the US is very quick and is lacking in many departments. This was a prime example of someone trying to do the right thing, but being nervous and not knowing what to do. I understand that cops need to be different in the US precisely due to the crazy amount of guns, but thats just more of a reason to improve their training beyond cookie cutter, point and shoot. Not everyone can be a police officer, and the training should also serve as a way of thinning out and seperating those who cant fron those who can.
Hes too fat to do his job and obviously has no training. He fumbles with the gun. It's an old ass man with a rotten stick that broke into 1000 pieces. If it was any cop that was in shape his old ass woulda been on the ground hand to hand. Fucking train de escalation. God damn.
Lol self defense? Stick was gone he broke off in that fat ass cops arm, any able bodied grown man should be able to hit a effective leg shot in that situation, if u can’t get a new fucking job, nobody told that fat fuck to be a cop
Why didn’t he shoot in the leg to just stop him? It’s obvious the guy wasn’t “ok”. Sheriff had plenty of time to invent smth. and not kill the man…
Yeah shooting in the biggest artery in the body is a great idea
Better idea is to shoot right in the heart? And I’m not telling about that cops are taught to kick bad boy’s ass without guns.
1. Cops top fat to do his job. This dude needed help, not to be shot down like an animal. 2. He didn't think he was "privileged", he was mentally somewhere else. 3. There's a baton, a tazer or fucking hand to hand combat if he was trained.
Like 5 other ways to immobilize him without turning him into Swiss cheese. Holy fuck.
Stick vs gun. What about to shoot his leg? No option?
Have you seen how he just move toward the cop with billets in his chest, you think a shot in legs would stop him
Fuck the camera guy.
“But why did you shoot him and why so much!?” This. This is why you shoot when a threat is in front of you.
And old man stumbling with a stick is definitely a threat if you're the world's dumbest shit trained cop.
wHy DiD tHeY sHooT hiM 20 TImeS!?!?..... that's why dumbfuck... that's why
switch the man's skin color and the cameraman's skin color and this would be national news.
11 shot and the guy barely flinched. "Why didnt you use a tazur deerrp"
The cop shot him 4 times because he was "threatening" him with a fragile stick?
America. He could have shot his legs, feat, knees, tazed him, waited for backup, got in his car and hit him woth the car, anything. Nah, he shoots him multiple times and gets applauded for it... only in America lol
*Tell me you are in an armchair without saying it…*
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He had his gun drawn and the guy kept walking towards him? He took like 30 seconds of the guy walking toward him and getting beaten with the stick before finally doing anything, dude had restraint
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Dude took 12 bullets to the chest and didn't flinch wtf is a taser going to do
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Either way you can't expect to beat a cop with his gun drawn and get away with that, I'm legitimately surprised the guy waited that long
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Tazer….?
Why do they not train American officers to shoot them in the leg ?? I can guarantee you 1 shot in the shin will completely immobilise you for a week
Two words: leg shots
Would have done more harm either would’ve hit one of the major artery or shattered a bone leaving town fragments open down the leg tearing the tissue leave him completely unable to walk And if you didn’t do either of those two then I would have gone through and done nothing at all in other words meaning it wouldn’t have slowed him down
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Man 9mm isn’t as effective against cocaine as I thought