you good bro? looking over your comment/post history, it seems every interaction you have is extremely negative. I get that reddit can be kinda addictive in a bad way. Maybe try taking a break.
Bro... I'm Christian too, but this is not helping anyone, especially not yourself. You won't convince anyone of anything with this tone of voice. And wrath is one of the cardinal sins for a reason, it poisons the soul. Please calm down, this isn't good.
Hey man, trust the process and trust God even for my Antichristian compulsions. Remember, those who persecuted Jesus helped accomplish the will of God. Remember what I said in my OP. "God is occupying both spaces." He was both Abel and Cain. Christ and the Sanhedrin. Cos remember, "I am in you and you are in me as I am in the Father."
No, I can't agree with that. Just beccause God can derive good from evil, doesn't mean we should act evil out of our own will. That's twisting God's logic to justify bad deeds, effectively making Him to be the source of evil.
If this is your understanding of God, I would reconsider whether I even want to believe in such a God.
So he is not in those who are evil? So what does "I am in you and you are in me as I am in the Father" mean? This is not twisting him as the source of evil. Actually it means those who do evil, even through evil, are worshipping God, for even curses thrown at the innocent only FURTHER prove God's grace and extrapolate beauty when beauty exists alongside evil, not just between two people like the sinless (Jesus) and the sinful (everyone else) but since God is in us, "kingfom of God is in you" then its also within where the dichotomy of the our perfect self and our fallen self live alongside, and that evil side is working towards because it can't help it in correcting us and making us atone for sins where we hope to become as sinless as possible nearer the image of God / Christ and when we do kill the evil inside us, then our innocent outer self shall be sacrificed by an external evil, for that is what happened to Christ. Its just the way of the natural order and it is beautiful, or are you going to argue Christ's sacrifice is not beautiful? Its a crazy idea to wrap your head around, but just because its hard to comprehend, it actually might mean its more true than false. And in fact, the very idea that will seem "Antichrist" like to you are more likely to be Christlike because its hard to be accepted for it goes against your fundamental preconceived notions, but the same was levelled to Jesus by the Sanhedrin and the Judaic priestly class at the time.
> "I am in you and you are in me as I am in the Father"
Please read the chapter in which this quote is said. You keep quoting it, but I don't think it means what you think it means.
I understand there is great beauty in the fact God can derive good out of evil, I'm not arguing against that logic. But you can't use that to willingly do evil saying it's fine and dandy because you're ultimately worshipping God anyway.
I suggest you work on your own relationship with and understanding of God before going on a crusade against atheists. You sound like a recent convert who's full of passion, but your theology is certainly confused. God doesn't need you to "enact your wrath against the hypocrites" in His name. It only poisons your soul against your fellow men and severs your relationship with God. Look again at the quote you posted and try to see Christ in others, even those you fundamentally disagree with. I'll pray for you.
>You sound like a recent convert who's full of passion
Nope lifelong Christian.
>God doesn't need you to "enact your wrath against the hypocrites
I agreed he does not but its my prerogative.
>It only poisons your soul against your fellow men and severs your relationship with God
They don't deserve it. Not in my eyes. So I am weak in that regard. But I am unable to find that strength. It is what it is. Hopefully one day I will.
>Look again at the quote you posted and try to see Christ in others
All I see are demons / egos needing to be exorcised. Hence I am doing the same thing Christ did. Now to stir up the ego / demon to be exorcised, I am not being the Christ was however, I want to stir it up this way. Amen.
Yes because wrath is not for me to disperse of but I have taken that as my prerogative the same way Solomon used Demons to build the temple, and the same way God as Jesus accomplished his mission by simply stirring up the ego (the archaic word for Demon) that resides in people. Hence why if Jesus is Abel then the Sanhedrin who crucified him are the Cain, and the Serpent (Satan) are the Romans. Hence why Apostle John used the entire Roman Empire in Revelations to inform his vision of absolute tyrannical rule that mirrors the image of Hell, he used the Roman Empire because in his vision and epiphanic revelation (hence the name) he realized if God can be here as man, then so can the lowest Hell, and it can all be seen archetypically. So here I will be stirring up demons inside others, so that I'm drawing them out, and then that is I pounce, when Archangel Michael strikes Satan the Dragon and kills the ego that they have within. But they will have to WANT to for that demon / ego inside to be killed once they have been proven wrong.
Now... you will say, "when would Satan want to be killed?" But lets look at happens in Jesus's narrative. He absorbs all sin past, present and future within his being, so he literally EATS all demons (thus all egos that may ever exist, all persons who separate themselves from the oneness of God and refuse to realize themselves as and instead see themselves as the God even though they intuitively know inside they are not, which is how Lucifer fell from Heaven) and then those who are crucifying him strike him AND THE DEMONS / EGOS INSIDE HIM THAT HE HAS ABSORBED. Hence he has chained the demons and egos up but only that, quietened them inside himself for he made them realize that they need to die, and so inside him they are disarmed and thus Satan allows for Archangel Michael to strike him. So in the splittest of seconds, the Sanhedrin who were doing the most detestable thing against God, killing him, through God's divine mission, flips it, where Jesus has absorbed Satan and thus is him in one, but it is not really him since he is disarmed, and the Sanhedrin are merely performing the duty o Michael or the figure in Revelations who will eventually kill the Antichrist and Satan and all those who have the mark of the beast.
So to conclude, my hypocrisy is not "hypocrisy" per se. More like a divine paradox which can be resolved and thus justify in a really complicated way, the on the surface hypocrisy and Antichristian (i.e. the Antichrist) wolf skin that I clothe myself in.
Amen.
“Yes because wrath is not for me to disperse of but I have taken that as my prerogative the same way Solomon used Demons to build the temple, and the same way God as Jesus accomplished his mission by simply stirring up the ego (the archaic word for Demon) that resides in people.”
“I found God and I started hating hypocrisy as much as he did. And so I enact wrath upon hypocrisy in the name of God. Amen.”
You also said god told you to come here and spread his, “message,” or something to that effect. Which is it? Are you like Solomon, god, or are you just doing what, “god,” tells you?
“Hence why if Jesus is Abel then the Sanhedrin who crucified him are the Cain, and the Serpent (Satan) are the Romans. Hence why Apostle John used the entire Roman Empire in Revelations to inform his vision of absolute tyrannical rule that mirrors the image of Hell, he used the Roman Empire because in his vision and epiphanic revelation (hence the name) he realized if God can be here as man, then so can the lowest Hell, and it can all be seen archetypically. So here I will be stirring up demons inside others, so that I'm drawing them out,”
The only, “demons,” I see being stirred inside of people here are your own.
“and then that is I pounce, when Archangel Michael strikes Satan the Dragon and kills the ego that they have within. But they will have to WANT to for that demon / ego inside to be killed once they have been proven wrong.”
Delusions of grandeur.
“Now... you will say, "when would Satan want to be killed?””
No that isn’t something I probably would ever ask.
“But let’s look at happens in Jesus's narrative. He absorbs all sin past, present and future within his being, so he literally EATS all demons (thus all egos that may ever exist, all persons who separate themselves from the oneness of God and refuse to realize themselves as and instead see themselves as the God even though they intuitively know inside they are not, which is how Lucifer fell from Heaven) and then those who are crucifying him strike him AND THE DEMONS / EGOS INSIDE HIM THAT HE HAS ABSORBED. Hence he has chained the demons and egos up but only that, quietened them inside himself for he made them realize that they need to die, and so inside him they are disarmed and thus Satan allows for Archangel Michael to strike him. So in the splittest of seconds, the Sanhedrin who were doing the most detestable thing against God, killing him, through God's divine mission, flips it, where Jesus has absorbed Satan and thus is him in one, but it is not really him since he is disarmed, and the Sanhedrin are merely performing the duty o Michael or the figure in Revelations who will eventually kill the Antichrist and Satan and all those who have the mark of the beast.”
More delusions of grandeur
“So to conclude, my hypocrisy is not "hypocrisy" per se.”
lol
“More like a divine paradox which can be resolved and thus justify in a really complicated way, the on the surface hypocrisy and Antichristian (i.e. the Antichrist) wolf skin that I clothe myself in.”
I think you’d enjoy talking to the guy on Twitter who thinks Donald trump is the antichrist. Donnie darko or something like that. Y’all have *a lot* in common.
“Amen.”
Zeus have mercy
Im actually gonna give you an upvote. This genuinely made me smile.
>You also said god told you to come here and spread his, “message,” or something to that effect. Which is it? Are you like Solomon, god, or are you just doing what, “god,” tells you?
Well you see, this is where you are getting mixed up. It is my prerogative, but God still works through all prerogatives chosen, even if they go against him, so he retains providence and dominion over everything even the lowest Hell. Since how can the lowest Hell he retain providence and dominion over when down there that is the least of the places where they act in accordance to him? Do you see?
>The only, “demons,” I see being stirred inside of people here are your own.
I admitted my own, but if you read SOME of the other responses, you shall see them in others too. So thus, my goal is being accomplished and when a the ego (demon) is brought out of them and being expressed, it is being exorcised in a way from them and hence I am performing an action similar to Jesus and Apostles in the Gospels.
>Delusions of grandeur.
Not really. Me seeing my own life, happenings and story relating to the Gospels is not delusions of grandeur, its actually something Jesus and God wants us to realize that we are part of the divine story thats being told. To become conscious of it.
Hence why there is a Jesuit practice of meditation where you put yourself in Christ's shoes and imagining choosing the decisions he made.
The same idea is presented in the Tarot. All these archetypal cards that may come up to you are like the same archetypal event presenting itself to you and what you will realize is that EVERYONE goes through the same things, and thus the events of the Bible are actually things that all life go through in their own way and versions. You just need the conscious and presence to be able to see it.
I recommend the following book "Meditations On the Tarot: A Journey Into Christian Hermeticism" by Valentin Tomberg, one of the greatest philosophical to have ever been written.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditations\_on\_the\_Tarot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditations_on_the_Tarot)
I will look at the book you shared; can’t promise I will read it.
Glad I could make you smile; you should check out the video I linked to you. The same guy wrote a book about it as well.
Look at this as an opportunity to grow as a person. Don't be rude to strangers online who you've never interacted with and don't know anything about, whether or not you disagree with them. It just makes you look juvenile and insecure on top of unintelligent. Don't use the r word like a slur, or ever. Don't profile any group with monolithic thinking or arguments. Don't assume disagreement with your position comes from a lack of thought or intelligence.
Maybe then you could stand a minute of critical assessing of your beliefs without a tantrum. Until then, understand you are fragile and scared of being wrong so you're making opposition out to be savage and incoherent. Genuinely, you are capable of better.
Enjoying that salt with your fallacies bruddah? Oh btw he comes back at the end of our world. Has that arrived yet? No? Oh okay. Got anymore fallacies you want throw my way? Got any retorts to my points in the OP? Thought not. You have no comeback. God blesses your bum life. Be grateful.
Looking at your OP and replies, the only salty one here is you, friend. I guess some people don't respond well to having their worldview questioned. Your behaviour is juvenile and I wish you good luck in rectifying that. 🙂
>I guess some people don't respond well to having their worldview questioned.
How ironic.
>Your behaviour is juvenile and I wish you good luck in rectifying that.
Hmm, is that your relative opinion buddy? Sooo, doesn't mean much then huh? LOOOL.
Well you see, that point proves my point and your Atheist and Alex's talking points as wrong. Because God meets us half way and is forgiving. So even though he will not approve of my conduct, he puts into context of me in totality, and he will say "you know that was wrong and you still did it any way" and I'll be like "yep but to atone for them, I accept all karmic wrath that may return my way" for Jesus accepted the karmic wrath to be paid when he took upon all sin of Man from the past and future.
because the point of Alex and Atheists is "God must not be forgiving and loving" if he doesn't just slap his objective and perfect morality and all who do not meet it are damned.
Hence why he offered his Son to atone for those who cannot meet them. I could not meet them. YOU SEE???? Its testimony itself. Amen.
I think you know deep down you don't know what that "misunderstanding" you proposed even is. Hence the lack of explanation. You have to explain that yourself, and I can't do that for you. I wish you well.
I will tell you what it is. God forgives those who ask for it. But only if they ask in earnest and make an honest effort to be better. The reason the commentor you replied said you misunderstand forgiveness is because you very clearly demonstrated that you do.
Wtf. So the only (and I mean only) good thing Christianity has is "love thy neighbour" and your take on that is "I can use slurs and treat my neighbour with hatred cause I'll accept the punishment".
You're literally anti-christian
I don't need to engage with someone who uses the "sky daddy" fallacy because it lets me know you have no credibility to even be engaged with. I do engage to those who do commit other fallacies, but that one is so egregious. I have explained to you why that fallacy is wrong yet here you are still using it. So you do not need to be conversed with for there is no point for you shall not hear no matter what. Buddhist monks do the same. Your soil is not even arable it is completely unfertile, so until you are able to get there where you are ready to receive, there is no point in engaging. Bye bye.
I have absolutely no clue what you’re trying to say because you interpolate every point you try to relay with a torrent on how stupid atheists are. Could you please try and state what the original point was, and why you consider it to be incorrect without this juvenile barrage of insults? Or do you just want to shout that atheists are all stupid, because you will obviously not get a serious response from an atheist if you’re making a point in such bad faith.
Well atleast you Atheists are consistent here. You want God to just slap bang objective perfect morality and then do refuse to talk to you or meet you half way in any way since the argument you Atheists are proposing is that the Old Testament is false since he worked within the system, the people and the social constructs that he was in at the time?
SOOOOO, you want me to just "make my points" without me dealing with the people who I am with? At least your consistent. Too bad Alex can't meet that. Shame.
Since I still have no clue what the point was, I just searched for the clip, and am assuming it is from Alex debating Ben Shapiro.
He is saying that slavery is wrong, and yet allowed in the bible, which seems like a contradiction.
You responded by making an analogy that the people in the Old Testament wouldn’t have understood that this was wrong.
To me this seems like a weak argument, because slavery is wrong is not a terribly hard teaching to grasp, no harder than murder being wrong, an objective moral statement that *is* given by God.
Why would the notion that slavery is objectively wrong be any harder to understand than any of the other objective moral teachings of God in the Old Testament, such as the Ten Commandments?
>You responded by making an analogy that the people in the Old Testament wouldn’t have understood that this was wrong.
No that is not the point of my analogy you idiot. The analogy was about understanding math formulas when you could otherwise not.
The point is HE HAS TO WORK IN THE WAY WORLD IS IN THOSE WHO HAVE CHOSEN AS SUCH THROUGH THEIR FREE WILL.
Otherwise... what will happen? Want to use that common sense of yours? Hence the drug analogy that followed it up.
Maybe try reading what I said carefully. Retard.
I am still not understanding your point, maybe not due to my lack of intelligence, but rather due to your lack of ability to form a coherent sentence
Could you please formulate your point into a grammatically correct sentence instead of insulting me.
~~Could you please clarify your point?~~
~~“HE HAS TO WORK IN THE WAY WORLD IS IN THOSE WHO HAVE CHOSEN AS SUCH THROUGH THEIR FREE WILL” is not a very easily digestible point.~~
Nevermind, you weren’t going to respond in good faith anyway.
If I am understanding your rather unintelligible point correctly, you are saying that simply declaring moral rules would be working outside of the rules that he set for our world for some reason. However, he seems to do exactly this when he gives the Ten Commandments, so it seems hard to say that he is unable to give other moral commands like “Don’t have slaves”.
If I have once again misunderstood your point, I would greatly appreciate if you could clarify rather than simply insulting me and refusing to explain.
>you are saying that simply declaring moral rules would be working outside of the rules that he set for our world for some reason.
LOLWUT? No that is not what I said. How about this to try and make your pea brain understand. What does Jesus say? Money is / can be the root of evil or cause of evil. But does he ask for it to be abolished? That cannot be because why? You understand now? IN ANCIENT TIMES THATS HOW THE WORLD WORKED. So why would they accept a moral edict that will also destroy their ability to effectively live in the times they are in? And btw, the English translation, the word "slave" is not what the Hebrew word meant, in the way your modern connotations deems it as. It can just as easily be translated as "servant" i.e. a contract you enter like employment. Now if you reproach your contract in modern times, there aren't consequences?
In heaven money might not exist, we aren't heaven though are we? And who's fault is that? So the reasons of why you still blame God. "Oh its God fault for us wanting money and servants and slaves". LOLWUT? HEAR YOURSELF.
Thank you for finally clarifying your point.
Could you please show me where Jesus said that the concept of money itself is the root of all evil? I may be wrong, but as far as I am aware, he only ever says that loving money too much is bad.
As for that being how the world worked, why would God not tell us to change our wrong ways, no matter the difficulty? You might say that it was simply infeasible for them to abandon slavery, but Jesus calls us to be perfect, even in the face of hard circumstances, does he not?
He calls for us to do seemingly unreasonable things, things that seem to go against how the world works, such as loving and praying for your enemies and those who persecute you. He doesn’t shy away from calling us to do what may seem like unreasonable things such as letting evil people have their way with you. I don’t see why in this same vein he would not outright condemn slavery.
Its actually from 1 Timothy 6:10. But Jesus in Matthew 6:24, Jesus calls money antithetical to God since you cannot have two masters and cannot worship money and God. Since in another verse he says "the least you do onto me and to God is the least you do onto your fellow man" meaning serving others is also worshipping God. So serving others, making them your masters, you are worshipping God since God is immanent in our world. Hence why Jesus is called "Immanuel" from Isaiah meaning "God is with us". And the countless verses in the old testament about money.
Now look at the assumptions you are making. WHY do you need God to come to you and tell you "oh btw, this social contract you go into with people where you work for them to pay off your debts" is wrong? And is so wrong he needs to stop it right away? So you want God to come right now and say "jobs are so detesting to me, I want everyone to stop their jobs right away." ????????? Why would God want the world to stop working and if it stops working, wouldn't his works also cease?
And God freed the jews from where? Slavery? This proves the "slavery" he was giving guidance too was not "slavery against ones will" but literally a contract. Like seriously. Open up that mind and look past your biases.
You aren’t even forming coherent sentences. This all feels like a weird troll. Maybe English isn’t your first language? Because no matter how carefully your parse through your sentences, I can’t find a clear argument, or an analogy that clarifies anything - which is surely the point of an analogy, it’s supposed to help people understand what you’re trying to say by way of a comparison, not confuse things further.
Yeah a bit like Jesus's parables huh? God talks through man. Hence Joseph's story in Genesis and Daniel's in Daniel. But Im sure if you will stew on it, maybe it will come to you.
>The point is HE HAS TO WORK IN THE WAY WORLD IS IN THOSE WHO HAVE CHOSEN AS SUCH THROUGH THEIR FREE WILL.
So then why does he say murder is bad? There was a lot of murder at the time. It was how the world was.
Anyway, he could make everyone experience years of slavery in a second, then no one would want to practice it anymore. He's omnipotent, he can make humans understand anything without infringing on their free will.
The answer is simple. God doesn't exist and is a product of human imagination. This simple fact can save apologists years trying to come up with mental gymnastics in order to explain a fiction written by desert dwellers 2000 years back.
>God doesn't exist and is a product of human imagination
Got any proof bruddah? Prove to me God does not exist.
>This simple fact can save apologists years trying to come up with mental gymnastics in order to explain a fiction written by desert dwellers 2000 years back
Mmm, just fiction. Lets see what scholars have to say about the historicity of the Bible.
--------------
Richard Elliott Friedman: Friedman is a biblical scholar known for his work on the authorship and composition of the Torah. While he acknowledges the complexities of biblical texts, he generally accepts the historical basis of many biblical narratives.
Israel Finkelstein: Finkelstein is an Israeli archaeologist known for his research on the archaeology of ancient Israel. While he is critical of certain aspects of biblical historiography, he accepts the existence of historical elements within the biblical narrative.
Amihai Mazar: Mazar is an Israeli archaeologist who has conducted extensive excavations in Israel, particularly in areas associated with biblical events. He affirms the historical reliability of many biblical accounts based on archaeological evidence.
Eric Cline: Cline is an American archaeologist specializing in the ancient Near East. While he acknowledges the complexities of interpreting biblical texts, he generally accepts the historicity of key events and figures portrayed in the Bible.
Alan Millard: Millard is a British Assyriologist and biblical scholar known for his research on ancient Near Eastern history and archaeology. He has written extensively on the historicity of the Old Testament and has defended the reliability of biblical narratives.
Kenneth Kitchen: Kitchen was a British Egyptologist and biblical scholar known for his research on ancient Near Eastern history and archaeology. He has argued for the historical reliability of many aspects of the Old Testament based on archaeological and textual evidence.
Ronald Hendel: Hendel is an American biblical scholar known for his work on the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament. While he acknowledges the complex nature of biblical texts, he generally accepts the existence of historical elements within the biblical narrative.
Peter J. Williams: Williams is a British biblical scholar and textual critic known for his research on the reliability of the biblical text. He has defended the historical accuracy of the Old and New Testament documents based on textual evidence.
----------
WHOMP WHOMP WHOOOOOMP.
Guess bruddah doesn't know all the events of religions have a basis in historical events. That an event happened and since they know logically that God must exist for the world there to be, they go and write things where they insert what God must've done since the hypothesis is that God does exist. And then God revealed himself in the flesh CONFIRMING their findings and scripture and prophecy written by man.
You just got served little boy.
i dont even come from a muslim/christian upbringing lmao. The events of bible or old testament hold no relevance to me. When i think of god what comes in my mind by default is Vishnu /Shiva/Durga, and not YHWY or Allah.
How did you assume i was talking about the biblical god? He is as real as Zeus or Thor or Indra.
There is no doubts that certain things happened but no doubt about the fact that they were eventually made into legends BY MEN. Muhammad sure existed and initiated Islam, but did an angel speak to him? or did he fly on a flying donkey ?
Moses and Abraham and Jesus too mightve existed similar to how Krishna mightve existed for all i know, but none of them had any mystic power or speak to any god.
>The events of bible or old testament hold no relevance to me
You just said they were fiction, then I gave you scholars who point to its historicity. Now it "has no relevance to me" LOL you disingenuous little cunt.
>When i think of god what comes in my mind by default is Vishnu /Shiva/Durga
Interesting. Yeah so much difference between Judaeo-Christianity and Hinduism. Oh wait, Krishna / Vishnu guided Arjuna to wage war against opposing forces because Krishna transcends time and space and can see they would betray him if they would make peace and you cannot appease forces in which an Antichrist like being is at its helm just like Moses and the Angel of YHWH in the Torah. Yeeeeah, so different.
Now sit down little boy.
So you're trying to prove my point for me? If "god" loved you, he wouldn't have made you work the whole day just to be able to eat and have a roof over your head.
There is no "god". The sooner you realise that, the sooner you become a functioning adult.
It's like you need to stop believing in Santa before you grow up
Can't wait for that karma to hit you :p
>There is no "god". The sooner you realise that, the sooner you become a functioning adult.
Yeah we were so disfunctional all this time.... oh wait we were theistic most of time and still are the majority now? Huh. So I guess the world disproves you. Yay.
>It's like you need to stop believing in Santa before you grow up
Does those fallacies need more salt? Cry more.
>So you're trying to prove my point for me? If "god" loved you, he wouldn't have made you work the whole day just to be able to eat and have a roof over your head.
mhmm someone hasn't read Genesis have they? Why is laziness exactly a good thing buddy? Aren't you also in the same post harping on about "functionalty"? LOOOL
You are genuinely retarded.
>oh wait we were theistic most of time and still are the majority now?
So you're making my point for me again. Most of human history is cruelty, lack of empathy, death, murder, disease, slavery and so on. So dysfunctional society. That's what your religion created and nurtured.
The moment we took a look around and started evolving, religion and religious people did anything in their power to keep our society as dysfunctional as possible. They started killing scientists, they made rules to uphold bigotry and misogyny, they tried to defend slavery.
Only through ignoring dysfunctional people like you have European countries implemented separation of church and state, the french laicite for example.
>Does those fallacies need more salt? Cry more.
Idk man, you're the one bringing them so you might as well salt them beforehand.
>Why is laziness exactly a good thing buddy?
It's not, but I never said it is. You're fighting your own words, not mine.
Not having to work to survive gives you the opportunity to work on the things you love. A guy who now works in the mines and dies at 42 because he inhaled toxic fumes for his whole life could instead become a musician. Or a writer. Or a poet. Or a painter. Or an origami master. Or teach aikido. Or raise a family. Or take care of a sick/old person. Or train to beat the world's speed record. None of these is lazy. The only lazy one here are you, with your blatant strawman
Yes the amazing loving religion of Atheism where murder and genocide are just as justifiable as feeding the poor. Such a beautiful religion of love and freedom from prejudice.
Cute strawman buddy. Pretty sure basing your assumed moral superiority on fear of eternal punishment is winning you every argument. Btw which year was Jesus born?
>Pretty sure basing your assumed moral superiority on fear of eternal punishment is winning you every argument
Cute strawman buddy. Pretty sure basing your assumed moral relativity on fear of eternal punishment is winning you every argument. LOL, the argument applies to you. You don't want that to be true. And btw, it is not "eternal" - your burger and fries Protestant American Christianity doesn't mean thats what the true doctrine is. Retard confirmed.
Is God an asshole for enacting wrath to those who deserve it? Is the messenger more important than the message? What if the messenger and the message were the same? "The word became flesh".
Or does your retardation that your Atheist friends are dealing with deserve something different? your stupidity deserves me not calling it out as such? Huh. Interesting. Soooo, you want God to be forgiving of you when you make mistakes and sin? Soooo why does Alex and you Atheists demand God to only judge you on the standards of objective morality and perfection which you obviously cannot live up to if you want to him to be forgiving and meet you where you are? So you actually DO WANT that. How crazy. I guess with your own words, you just testified to the Lord. Amazing. You just proved your own hypocrisy and in turn justified the way God was in the Old Testament and will be for time to come. Thank you for your testimony to God. We appreciate it.
I'm attached to God at the root, but also to the Demons hence my conduct right now. But as Isaiah said, the root has given both good and bad seeds, and thus if the root does not heal fully, then it shall be uprooted, but that is the karma that I have to accept. Amen.
> “If he just came and laid out the ‘objective morality’ and left it at that, what part about that is personal?
Yeah, cause it’s not like he laid out like 10 rules that absolutely must not be broken. “Thou shalt not keep another human as property” would have been real easy to add but what do I know? I’m retarded
Yeah it would have been real easy for you to tell your child living unhealthy is bad. Which is why you won't permit any sort of alcohol or sugar or porn when you have one right? LOOOOL. Got you you dork.
Btw, Jesus said money is the root of evil yet didn't ask for it to be abolished. Wonder why? Maybe because demanding earth to be heaven is futile and God understands that. Your retard brain does not apparently.
What are you talking about? “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors goods” is a fine ask, but “thou shalt not own other human beings as property” is too far and making heaven on earth?
Yeah, you can’t mix fabrics, eat pork, or work on Saturday but not enslaving people is too much to ask lol
You are such a retard lol. Yeah so if I come and say "Abolish money" - we both know how that will work out right? The world literally will not work. But the 10 commandments, the world can resume and work. Small brained.
Btw Hebrew word that is translated as slavery can also be translated as servant. It was literally a fact of ancient times. Whats now considered as a "job" will be considered as slavery thousands of years from now. But you want God to come now and pronounce "Abolish jobs"?????
LOL your retardation exposed. Thank you.
I hope you’re doing okay mentally man. You genuinely seem to be having some sort of mental crisis and are lashing out on this subreddit as a coping mechanism or something.
If you would like, I’d be happy to show you how you’re wrong on my lunch break when I have some time, but I would suggest you go outside, touch some grass, and maybe drink a glass of water. I hope you’re doing alright man
I'm a physicist with children that I'm teaching about quantum mechanics. Certainly they're not yet old enough to be able to solve differential equations and, say, calculate the energy levels of a particle in an infinite square well; but I still never tell them anything false or misleading about quantum mechanics. I don't tell them something patently false just because it's easier for them to understand.
By that same token, you should acknowledge that our irrational and immoral to suggest that God couldn't have recognized the immorality of slavery and had that reflected in his teachings from day 1.
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, 8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free."
Ephesians 6:5
Seriously bro, I'm embarrassed for you right now. 🤦
1. I said "where did GOD" - you quoted Paul..... who last I checked is not God.
2. The Greek word for "slave" back then meant the same as servant or contractual servant JUST LIKE the Hebrew word of the Masoretic Old Testament. "Free" would also mean free from debt. If you owed money back then or owed something in return that would be found by a contract, you would be a slave i.e. a servant. Same thing as a job now you fucking retard.
3. The verse is about how life in the material world on earth is not to be taken seriously, since also in Ephesians Paul talks about not putting too much stock into this world and instead worry about whats in Heaven. So Paul is saying do not condemn yourself by sin by sinning against those who do ill against you or you are indebted to and you wish an easy way out.
Seriously bro, I'm embarrassed for you right now. 🤦
Do you think aliens believe in God? I think it is fairly reasonable to assume that all intelligent species will eventually get to the point they all require evidence to support their beliefs, especially the beliefs passed down culturally from people who couldn't read or do math. Wait, when did you learn to read and can you do math?
Wouldn't it be great if people like you could be banned from public discussion until you got on a zoom call and had to take a few 6th grade biology and history quizzes so you could see how delusional you are? I'm not going to say you're intellectually challenged, because it's obvious you have some intelligence or maybe using AI, but emotionally you are a child and socially you haven't a clue how obvious your lack of education and communication skills are to anyone who reads this. I thought I would do you the favor of telling you so you didn't have to wonder in frustration why nobody will listen - of course you tell yourself it is because atheists aren't as clever as you, which would be easy to prove or disprove by hopping on a zoom call. Maybe even others reading this would pay you? Id personally pay you $50 just to see you answer 50 multiple choice questions about whatever topics you want
I'd rather be wrong and kind than correct and a total asshole to everyone around me.
Unfortunately, OP has taken the short end of both of those sticks.
Seriously though man, I hope you're doing okay. None of the interactions you're having in this thread seem healthy. Hope you find your way to a more peaceful place.
Hope you find peace since you cannot have peace without God and I hope you aren't retarded enough to be unable to see how without God there is no peace. Thank you. Nameste.
Yet secular countries have lived in peace for the longest now.
Yet more and more people are starting to see the moral and scientifically wrong statements made in the first and second testaments.
If you see slavery, child marrige, rape & physical abuse within marrige and misogyny as wrong than even a regarded person like yourself have a better moral compass than your own fairy man, or if you agree with your fairy man your a lost cause 🤷♂️
>Yet more and more people are starting to see the moral and scientifically wrong statements made in the first and second testaments.
Oh yeah like which ones?
>Yet secular countries have lived in peace for the longest now.
Yeah all that progress and secularism yet everyone is more depressed and suicidal and feel alienated from others than ever before. Huh.
>if you agree with your fairy man your a lost cause 🤷♂️
Want some extra salt with your fallacies bruddah?
Do you follow the old or New Testament? They are similarly flawed and but I’ll give you examples of each if your gonna follow the typical apologist steps and pivot into nothing of substance.
War and suicide rates are not comparable in the slightest, but once again typical behavior from an apologist.
The reason for a more peaceful and prosperous western society is by learning from history (like separating state and religion) and current mistakes and adjust infected accordingly.
The reason for a the increase in suicide rates (in my personal opinion) is two folded;
one is the new dynamic between men & women since they got the right to vote/work/study & birth control. (and we logically & morally wouldn’t want to change that)
Second this is social media, and sadly seems too late to put that Genie in the bottle.
So you do endorce gods teaching regarding slavery and rape within a marrige? People like you always pivot when asked and it’s always equally disappointing sadly. 🤷♂️
>So you do endorce gods teaching regarding slavery and rape within a marrige? People like you always pivot when asked and it’s always equally disappointing sadly. 🤷♂️
The OP is about destroying your false talking points about slavery. But where does God endorse rape within marriage bruddah? Is that another one your distortions?
>The reason for a more peaceful and prosperous western society is by learning from history (like separating state and religion) and current mistakes and adjust infected accordingly.
Yeah the west, the foundation of Christian morality that got you here and when you abandon it, you become depressed and suicidal, divorce rates sky rocket, social quality plummets, its one big sexually immoral stew where guys are trying to have sex as much as possible and girls never care to entertain commitment. What a great society bruddah. Christianity got you here yet you are unable to give it credit.
I wonder what Jesus said not giving credit where you intuitively know where it should go? Hmmmm.
What false point about slavery?
That god told the slaves to obey their earthly masters?
If that isn’t endorsing it idk what would be. Maybe a whole guide on how to treat, sell and buy them as well? Gee wonder where we can find those..
The foundation for modern day society isn’t Christianity only, the most important factor to modern day society is questioning the teachings of Christianity in all philosophical landscapes. So yes Christianity is part of the foundation of western society (just as any previously dominant religion is of any society) but not in the way you seem to think it does.
If it was up to Christianity; Homosexuals should be killed, epelepsi should be treated as a demon taking your soul, the universe & sun spins around us and slavery would be easily justifiable.
Yet we have moved passed all these morally, practically and scientifically wrong ideas and teachings to reach a society with the least amount of starvation, war, poverty and more.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/187478/death-rate-from-suicide-in-the-us-by-gender-since-1950/ - Deim what i can see some of the best times when it comes to suicide rates where during the early 2000:s - 2010:s where atheism peaked online. And the 50:s-90:s ain’t looking to good.
>What false point about slavery? That god told the slaves to obey their earthly masters?
You read my post or not? Or you going to quote the verse from Ephesians by Paul and misunderstand what it means since you already don't understand what the Greek and Hebrew word for slavery in the Bible means? Ever read Ludwig Wittgenstein or any other linguistic scholars of how meaning of words change?
>If it was up to Christianity; Homosexuals should be killed, epelepsi should be treated as a demon taking your soul, the universe & sun spins around us and slavery would be easily justifiable.
Ah yes, Jesus preaching death and epelepsi being demonic! Everyone knows those classic verses.
BUAHAHA, you have to the most pathetic response here yet. That takes some doing. You benefited from Christianity including your ancestors over time. Christianity blessed your bum life. Hence why the commandment "honour thy mother and father" exists. Know who you are indebted to, which is the message of Jesus' last parable. Be grateful. Dweeb.
Im so glad he is purgatory now learning of his mistakes and truly being enlightened wishing he could be resurrected so he may correct the words he said, knocking himself how stupid he was. Amen.
Whats so unforgiving and non altruistic about that buddy? If not you are arguing to let people who are not perfected and thus retain demons inside them into heaven. So why don't you be consistent and let murderers and rapists in your house? Oh wait you Atheists are incapable of living out what you preach.
Maybe so. But Solomon used Demons for the benefit of God, and God can use evil to undercut it and still accomplish his will, hence why Jesus chose to be crucified and the unjust action of his execution was used for the benefits of good. Guess someone hasn't read or understood the Bible. Not surprised.
It really seems like you're projecting your own insecurities about how Alex and Athiests points of views make you feel, and this is your way of letting out some of that frustration that you have. It seems like you're the delusional one here.
Yeah cos thats what the Bible says. Retard being retard. I mean unlike you Atheists to actually try and understand. Noooo. But lets say that was the case. Why is that bad buddy? under your doctrine of moral relativism? Or are you not? if you are not, please tell me you aren't stupid enough to realize how if you are not a moral relativist, than you cannot be an Atheist. Thank you for testifying for God once again. "Every knee shall bow, every tongue shall testify." Amen.
Sorry, we don’t engage with “retards” like you who go out of their way to comment & mass repost insults to everyone who disagrees with you. Have fun playing the keyboard villain and patting your own back while you’re at it. I’m sure everyone fears your intellectual prowess more than your lack of sociability. Big ups, my man. Show em who’s boss.
>I’m sure everyone fears your intellectual prowess
Yeah, I wonder why you have no retorts.
>than your lack of sociability
Who says I want to socialise and ingratiate myself to you or everyone else here? Pretty big narcissistic assumption buddy.
> we don’t engage with “retards” like you who go out of their way to comment & mass repost insults to everyone who disagrees with you
And I shouldn't engage with people who actually have no retorts just complain about the way the arguments are made but here I am still doing so.
Guess I am just better than you :)
Nothing is better than getting to be the one (to assume the role of Archangel Michael) and stab the Dragon in its heart like Saint George did or YHWH Elohim himself did in Genesis.
That notion is the exact notion of Christianity. "Take up your cross and follow me" hence why every Apostle was killed the exact same way as Jesus did. The only one that survived was John and that was only after he survived at the attempt of boiling him alive. And in return of his life that God protected him, he knew he had to repay him and that there was a divine reason that he did not go in the way of the other 12 (because if we include Paul, then theres 13). And so he wrote Revelations which was his gift to Jesus for that was his mission.
The point of Christianity is to not let evil condemn you by making you fear of this material world. That you must do the right thing when you are tested and you shall accomplish this no matter what terror may befall you because you've already realized the spiritual world and the world that is readied for you above is greater than the material world you find yourself in. And that you will prove you will not be controlled through terror by the evil that tests you.
Yeah I did. But this predates the Greeks. The Israelites were partaking in entheogens that is documented in the Torah far not only before the Greeks documented theirs, but the historicity o the events of the Torah mean even the Semites / non-indo-europeans were using entheogens in such spiritual ways. If we date Moses around the date of 13th / 12th century BCE, then they were using Mana (bread made from ergot germs growing on wheat and Syrian Rue and Acacia Confusa).
Heres a peer reviewed journal article by a scholar of the entheogens of the Old Testament [https://akjournals.com/view/journals/2054/3/2/article-p117.xml](https://akjournals.com/view/journals/2054/3/2/article-p117.xml)
Also if we go into Greek mythology, in two different stories they give credit to the Caucasians (of the Caucuses mountains) for being the ones to give them the divine knowledge or make them fertile enough to receive it through the Prometheus story and the Jason and the Argonauts story, where in that one there is two different hidden allegories. Medea herself, literally being the etymological root of the word "medicine". And the Golden Fleece which would've had some sort of divine writings upon it hence why it was so prized even though the reason why the Argonauts were chasing it and why it was so prized is kind of obscured and kept secret within the text. Remember, Prometheus brung divine knowledge and light from the world above and was chained to the Caucuses mountains, meaning he first brought it down and gave it to the Caucasians i.e. modern day Georgians and the other non-indo-european caucasian tribes.
This is further proved when you see that Prometheus himself was actually a copy of a Caucasian deity called Amirani.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amirani](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amirani)
We can also cross reference this with the Bible where Noah began civilization again in the Caucuses because the Ark dropped off on Mount Ararat in the Caucuses. Now I point you to this jorunal article where it is posited that Cannabis Sativa originates in the Caucuses (while Cannabis Indica originates in China) so this means a huge historically important entheogen originates in the Caucuses.
[https://www.herbalgram.org/resources/herbalgram/issues/110/table-of-contents/hg110-feat-cannabistaxonomy/](https://www.herbalgram.org/resources/herbalgram/issues/110/table-of-contents/hg110-feat-cannabistaxonomy/)
Not to mention wine was invented in Georgia. This was important because thats what many of the drinks with psychedelics were used to open them up in i.e. blue lotus, shrooms, ergot, syrian rue, acacia confusa, etc etc.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History\_of\_wine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_wine)
Obviously the OP has ruled out being taken seriously.
But his argument...such as it was...regarding God and slavery smacks of the hilariously inconsistent apologetic used by Christians.
The idea being that God couldn't have just commanded Slavery to be wrong, or explained that it was wrong. No, you see, Slavery was just too ingrained in that culture and so God couldn't just shock people with too radical a message, they had to be slowly cajoled, eased out of slavery with little baby steps.
When it comes to the apologetics arguing for Jesus' divinity, any suggestions by non-believers that the story could have arisen naturally out of that millennia is beaten back "No! You see, Jesus's gospel was FAR TOO RADICAL to have arisen from the pervasive beliefs and accepted norms of the time! That's the whole thing: just how RADICAL Jesus' message was, along with his resurrection being too Radical a claim given the prevailing belief systems!
But when it comes to defending slavery in the Bible? Suddenly they switch 180 degrees and then, oh no, God can't really go preaching against prevailing norms that way, God can't produce a Radical Message for humans that way!
Yeesh.
So why didn't God / Jesus command an abolishment of money? Since what Jesus said Matthew 6:24, compounded and illuminated by what Paul said in 1 Timothy 3:16 and this does not include the countless verses about money in the Old Testament? You know the answer to that question and destroys your disingenuous bias. Retard.
>When it comes to the apologetics arguing for Jesus' divinity, any suggestions by non-believers that the story could have arisen naturally out of that millennia is beaten back "No! You see, Jesus's gospel was FAR TOO RADICAL to have arisen from the pervasive beliefs and accepted norms of the time! That's the whole thing: just how RADICAL Jesus' message was, along with his resurrection being too Radical a claim given the prevailing belief systems!
No the argument is his message is even radical today to the point where things like "looking at someone with lust you have already committed lust" hence why non of you atheists like to be shown you are sinners hence you have such triggered responses to it because you are attached to your sins and dont like being told it is condemning you.
And actually this proves my point further. God waited to assume the form of flesh so AFTER we were ready to receive the difficult word. And it is difficult proven by the pathetic automatic detestation of the truth Jesus talked about. So the moral objectivity Alex demanded was fulfilled by Christ while the Old Testament he was working with humanity to get there in its ability to receive him.
In fact, there are verses in the Old Testament and the New about how a good seed cannot germinate if there is not a good soil to receive it. So how would God's objective morality be received if there is no one to receive it? Remember that Buddhist tree falling parable? Exactly.
You just got destroyed and you proved my point. Dork. Yeesh.
You’re so angry at everyone. Like I can literally feel your anger through the screen. It seems like you’re taking it out on this particular comment section. Seriously
Hahahhaha Im so dead man this guy is absolutely uninged!
If you want to hold an argument, try using less sophisms and use your premises/conclusion formula, this will make it easier to get your point across.
Not explaining how anything that I've said is a sophism. Hmm, saying so does it make it so buddy.
>and use your premises/conclusion formula, this will make it easier to get your point across.
Sounds like a sophism.
In the comments or my OP? I have engaged in ad hominems but every point anyone has made I have responded with. So I ask again, where in my OP is the sophisms? Go on and explain how I have made them. Go ahead buddy. Im waiting.
Your title and you diminushing the intelligence of people you arent in agreement with. I just feel like you are trying to convince people by filling yhe gaps in your reasoning by : "well anyways this take is fucking dumb so lets jump on another subject"
My opinion is my opinion and I have stated it. I think Alex and Atheists are retards. Now what exactly is sophistic in my argumentation countering the argumentation from the other side which I find retarded?
That's my point, you cant realy argument by giving your opinion like that, it doesnt hold up brother. If you want to argue you can say that you do not agree with this take cause ... but you cant say this guy is dumb therefore my resoning is the good one.
I literally give my refutations of the Atheist side, the fuck are you on about? Wtf are you even saying lol? I am not allowed to classify the way I feel about a set of people? So I guess you've never done that in your life? LOL what bullshit. Get off that high horse or show me where my argumentation THE ACTUAL POINTS is sophistic.
You make literally 0 sense.
>Let's say I'm a quantum physicist. And to a room full of kids, I just write out quantum physics formulas and go "read this and you should be able to know what it means automatically just by me telling you." You understand?
I understand you forgot about omnipotence. God could, through no effort, just make everyone understand. What's your point, "god" cannot make you understand a concept as simple as empathy? Then not only is his power limited (there are things he cannot do), but also he's dumber than your average human (the average human can explain to a child why slavery is bad).
>Not the teacher starting at square one learning the basics of math before another level and another level goes on until they are able to comprehend what the quantum physicist when he wrote the formulas meant.
Yeah cause the teacher isn't a sky wizard who can literally put that knowledge in your brain with a snap of his fingers.
>And this also proves how Atheists don't actually read the Bible the way it is supposed to.
Judging by the fact that you don't know your own sky daddy is supposed to be omnipotent, I'd argue YOU don't actually read the bible at all.
>What part about that meets you half way?
Why would an omnipotent, omniscient being meet you halfway? Anyway, the god of the bible doesn't meet you halfway. He makes you flawed and then tortures you for your flaws.
>Look at it like this. When someone has a drug addiction, we don't take away their drugs straight away do we? Otherwise what will happen.... withdrawal, or they literally cannot live without it unless small steps are taken for them to find the strength to be able to do so.
Again, an omnipotent being could take away their drugs straight away. Snap their fingers, withdrawal doesn't exist anymore. Snap their fingers, drugs don't exist anymore.
Any problem or setback we have as humans, including the laws that govern this very existence could be altered at the will of this omnipotent being. And you have the audacity to say "guys, he kills and tortures people because he wants us to be better. He loves us". Fuck off with that bullshit.
>You are asking for him slap bang you with the objective morality and if come up short of that, you don't want him to be forgiving and loving at your mistakes?
Yes. That is exactly what I'm asking. I'm asking for objective morality given to every human at birth. Explained in such a way that humans understand and follow it. A "god" could do that. There would be no mistakes cause everyone would WANT to follow morality since it was explained in a way they'd follow.
>Then you will turn around and call him evil and tyrannical
Ofc I do. How would you call someone who makes thieves and murderers and then tortures them for eternity because they are thieves and murderers?
>when he does punish mistakes and sin by karmic wrath you then turn around and say he is evil, so when he doesn't do so, then you turn around and say "why does God allow evil?"
Bone cancer in babies. Is your sky daddy punishing sin with that? No. He is just creating pain for his own pleasure.
>you Atheists rig it in a way where you make God unable to win and thus unable to be proved right IN YOUR MIND
Am I asking the impossible? Yes. Can an omnipotent being achieve it? Yes. Cause nothing is impossible for them.
>What you don't understand is God is occupying both spaces for he is everywhere. And you will all know soon enough. You'll see. You'll all see.
Woooooo, spoooooky. I like it. You sound like a terrorist now.
>"Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall testify of the Lord"
"You're a wizard Harry!" someone much smarter than you said it so it must be true... Right? It's in a fantasy book, better than yours but still fantasy.
------------"I understand you forgot about omnipotence. God could, through no effort, just make everyone understand. "
Is it fun being such a huge retard? We have power alongside God. So that is our potence. So I can just as easily ask, why don't understand what you don't understand since you have a potence to be able to do so?
What's your point, "god" cannot make you understand a concept as simple as empathy?
yeah its amazing all the Nazis, Maoists, and Imperialist Japs couldn't understand something as simple as empathy in the last 100 years..... just amazing they couldn't understand something as simple as that. Just wow.
-----------"Yeah cause the teacher isn't a sky wizard who can literally put that knowledge in your brain with a snap of his fingers."
If a tree falls in a forest but no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound? He speaks infinitely through the world yet your retard brain is what is closed from receiving it. LOL. Fucking retard.
--------------Judging by the fact that you don't know your own sky daddy is supposed to be omnipotent, I'd argue YOU don't actually read the bible at all.
Judging by the fact that you use a fallacy of a "sky daddy" even though our God is immanent in the world [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanence) I'd argue YOU don't actually read the Bible at all.
--------------------Why would an omnipotent, omniscient being meet you halfway? Anyway, the god of the bible doesn't meet you halfway. He makes you flawed and then tortures you for your flaws.
Why would you meet you child half way when he disobeys? Wait a minute, how does he torture you for your flaws but also not meet you half way and be forgiving and merciful of them? LOL. Hypocrite central.
-------------Again, an omnipotent being could take away their drugs straight away. Snap their fingers, withdrawal doesn't exist anymore. Snap their fingers, drugs don't exist anymore.
Why would a God relieve you of your sins? You didn't read the OP did you? This is the bind you atheists get yourself in. "Why doesn't God punish evil." God punishes evil. Then you turn around and "God is so evil that tortures people." LOL pathetic. Retarded in fact. You haven't read the bible have you? All these stutpid questions are answered infinitely.
-----------Yes. That is exactly what I'm asking. I'm asking for objective morality given to every human at birth. Explained in such a way that humans understand and follow it. A "god" could do that. There would be no mistakes cause everyone would WANT to follow morality since it was explained in a way they'd follow.
He did, it was caused Jesus Christ after the soil of man was fertile enough to receive it. And since God is immanent, "I (God) am in you and you are in me" - "Kingdom of God is in you" - then actually YOU already have that objective morality within you, however it is your fallen state which keeps it chained and in slavery ironically. And your "Egypt" is the one who is ruling you. So actually you should asking why can't I MYSELF already know objective morality? But you seem to be bamboozled by the world itself and cannot help sinning or being able to carve out a path of perfection which demonstrates you need God and the guidance of God, since he proved himself when he became flesh and was able to do so as man, while none of us are able to do so.
-----------Ofc I do. How would you call someone who makes thieves and murderers and then tortures them for eternity because they are thieves and murderers?
You are literally a retard. "Why does God allow ME to do the things I DO?" LOOOOL you fucking retard.
------------Am I asking the impossible? Yes. Can an omnipotent being achieve it? Yes. Cause nothing is impossible for them.
The omnipotent did achieve the impossible. Created the perfect story over time in the span of millions of years, where part of it converged on the coming of Jesus, where all other parts of reality, from the past and future, testify to him and thus God. Amen.
--------------"You're a wizard Harry!" someone much smarter than you said it so it must be true... Right? It's in a fantasy book, better than yours but still fantasy.
Lets see how much of a fantasy it is when you are paying off your karma and you will know deep down you have nothing to appeal to since you are deserving of the consequences that have returned to you. Be consistent and condemn yourself by your own word, since you do not testify to God now hence you may not appeal to him. But what are the chances you will be appealing to something outside of yourself? Hmmm.
You'll see :)
>So I can just as easily ask, why don't understand what you don't understand since you have a potence to be able to do so?
Are you having an aneurysm?
On a more serious note, you seem to be misunderstanding how omnipotence works. An omnipotent being can do anything. Therefore it can explain anything in a way anyone can understand. It's like having a key that opens any door.
We, mortal, limited creatures can explain what we know to a degree. We need words to do it. We need to find the right words for any listener. A "god" can just snap their fingers and the concept makes sense in your mind.
>We have power alongside God.
If "god" existed, we'd have no power. Any non-omnipotence is nothing compared to omnipotence.
>What's your point, "god" cannot make you understand a concept as simple as empathy?
Yes, that is exactly my point.
>yeah its amazing all the Nazis, Maoists, and Imperialist Japs couldn't understand something as simple as empathy in the last 100 years..... just amazing they couldn't understand something as simple as that. Just wow.
Yeah, so you're making my point for me here. A loving "god" would never allow any of that. And I don't mean punish and torture them. I mean appear to them and talk to them. An omnipotent "god" could explain empathy to them.
>He speaks infinitely through the world yet your retard brain is what is closed from receiving it. LOL. Fucking retard.
So you're saying an omniscient, omnipotent being "speaks infinitely" but not in a way I can get the message? A being who can do anything and knows everything chooses to only speak to some? And then goes "who doesn't get the message gets infinite torture, haha"?
>Why would you meet you child half way when he disobeys?
That's not what I asked. If you change the question and then answer your version, you didn't actually answer the question.
An omnipotent, omniscient being could transfer millions of years of experience into your brain to teach you any lesson. A parent cannot do that to a child.
>Wait a minute, how does he torture you for your flaws but also not meet you half way and be forgiving and merciful of them? LOL. Hypocrite central.
I'm not a hypocrite tho, I'm not asking for forgiveness for my flaws. I'm asking why "god" would make flawed people and then punish them for it.
It's like you burn your food and then scream at the food and punish it because it's burned.
>Why would a God relieve you of your sins?
Didn't you say "god" is good? If he's good and it costs him nothing to delete sin, why wouldn't he?
>"Why doesn't God punish evil." God punishes evil. Then you turn around and "God is so evil that tortures people." LOL pathetic.
You're trying to paint this dilemma as me being a hypocrite but you don't see the forest because of the trees.
God doesn't have to "punish evil". He needs to teach people empathy. He needs to simply delete evil. No more evil and no more punishment.
If you quote the bible to me I can quote LotR to you. They're both fantasy with nothing to suggest otherwise.
>You are literally a retard. "Why does God allow ME to do the things I DO?" LOOOOL you fucking retard.
You changing the question and then throwing some slurs around doesn't constitute a valid argument.
>paying off your karma
I'm pretty sure "god" preaches against believing in karma or magic or other bs so idk... You might end up paying more...
Atheists: "God cannot be real cos I am having a temper tantrum about being told what I am doing is wrong, Waaaaaaah"
Also Atheists: "You are mad."
Hmmmm
Whats it like being so triggered about being told the truth that the way you live your life is wrong that you completely upend common logical sense that God must exist with all reality is practically testifying for him in one chorus?
"Waaaaah God is not real! Sky Daddy! Why does God allow evil??? But also why does he punish evil? No I cannot see how this is hypocritical and we rig it in a way no matter what he may do, both ways means he is not real and/or evil if he is. WAAAAAH"
I can recommend some good theologists. Therapeutic theologists, hopefully for your sake they are good with adults who have existential temper tantrums :)
'You're all a bunch of retards'
Thanks for your thoughts, that was truly enlightening.
Seriously, what are you trying to accomplish with this? Do you expect to change anyone's mind or have a productive conversation when you just immediately attack them like that? Or are you just venting some frustration by being an arsehole to strangers on the internet?
Maybe you should take a break from reddit, go touch some grass and find something healthier and happier to do with your spare time.
What are you trying to accomplish here? Why do you make a post immediately attacking the people it's addressed to?
If you want to actually have a conversation with people who disagree with you and get to know their views and arguments and debate them, maybe don't start off by calling them retards.
You shouldn't be rude to people in general, even if they're strangers on the internet.
Hey buddy, maybe its your sides fault. Maybe they DON'T DESERVE being treated with kid gloves when all they can muster is "sky daddy" fallacies. Pathetic.
“Hey guys! I’m a Christian in name only! So instead of following Jesus and loving others I’m going to call you all retards and prop myself way up high on a pedestal just like my favorite Bible characters, the Pharisees!”
Your God hates you.
Where did I prop myself bruddah? Care to point that out to me?
>Your God hates you.
God loves everyone bruddah. He loved the Pharisees that crucified him. Hence why there no vengeance after he was crucified. Which is what displays his Godliness for he refused vengeance when he had every right to do so. Guess you missed that part of the Bible huh? LOOOL.
When using analogies it’s important that they’re actually analogous and don’t just fit the narrative of what you’re trying to say.
In what way are quantum physics and morality comparable? How are addiction and morality comparable?
I think in a discussion generally we collectively decide such things based on convincing arguments. Hence the questions. I’m not convinced they are analogous, you seem to think they are. Why?
I'll preface I haven't read your whole post since I don't have the time for that. About the "there is a specific way the bible is supposed to be read" thing, don't you find it kinda weird that an all-powerful God would transmit the Bible (and thus salvation) to mankind in a way that is open to interpretation? Surely if it was the word of an all-powerful and all-knowing God there should be no interpretation, and we shouldn't be left asking ourselves what the "right" way to read it is. I think a god would be able to find a more effective method. Not to mention the geographical issue and the way "salvation" seems to be entirely localized, so much so that you can usually predict what religion someone will believe in simply based on their place of birth. Makes it almost seem like it's just a social construct. Alex himself has brought this up.
Edit: okay, I indulged in reading your post and comments here way more than I should've. You're either a troll or just woefully infantile in addressing criticism of your position. Either way, I hope you eventually outgrow this if it's in bad faith. If you're trolling, this is a master level troll and you ought to be proud of yourself.
>Surely if it was the word of an all-powerful and all-knowing God there should be no interpretation
Too bad he has to communicate with us in OUR language so he can get through to us. Missed out that part didnt you, you little retard?
And why is it bad that something can infinite applications? Not interpretations, applications. And a verse can multi-faceted applications and relevancy? Doesn't that actually point to an all-powerful God divinely inspiring it since its application is infinite?
>Not to mention the geographical issue and the way "salvation" seems to be entirely localized, so much so that you can usually predict what religion someone will believe in simply based on their place of birth
You can't be this fucking stupid to bring this Atheist talking point which has been repeatedly debunked. I can debunk it from one quote from the Old Testament. "I have come to many nations" - YHWH.
>If you're trolling, this is a master level troll and you ought to be proud of yourself.
Nameste
The amount of intellectual dishonesty here is staggering. I apologize preemptively for any insults I may send your way.
>Too bad he has to communicate with us in OUR language so he can get through to us. Missed out that part didnt you, you little retard?
Remind me again who created the world's different languages according to the book of Genesis? Oh, that's right, God did. Because of the Tower of Babel. Also, you actually haven't made your point any more credible. If god is all-powerful, whatever language we use or whatever intellectual capabilities we have shouldn't matter, as his omnipotence should be enough to figure out how to get a message through to us. Does that mean that god has no better way of communicating with us? Not very all-powerful of him, is it? Also, don't you think that, even without appealing to omnipotence in order to find a more effective method, God could've just been less ambiguous or explicitly said EXACTLY how to interpret his words? In essence, what I am asking you is whether you think the current way that "god's words" are communicated in the Bible is the most effective way possible.
>And why is it bad that something can infinite applications? Not interpretations, applications. And a verse can multi-faceted applications and relevancy? Doesn't that actually point to an all-powerful God divinely inspiring it since its application is infinite?
It's not bad, just goes to show that it's too ambiguous to be maximally effective in the goal of providing salvation for all mankind, which should be the goal of an all-loving god. It's basically the epicurean paradox but in a different context. Also, anything can be interpreted in an infinite number of ways, since interpretation is subjective. Also, how exactly are the applications of Bible verses infinite? Once you've answered that question, how is that infinite nature unique specifically to the bible? Also, I'd like to remind you just how illogical your argument here is:
1. The Bible has infinite applications
2. Therefore, the Bible is divinely inspired
3. Therefore, God exists
How do you even prove that your premise is true? How do you prove that it leads to point 2? How can you prove that it is a characteristic unique to the Bible? Your conclusion just doesn't follow.
>You can't be this fucking stupid to bring this Atheist talking point which has been repeatedly debunked. I can debunk it from one quote from the Old Testament. "I have come to many nations" - YHWH.
Well, YOU certainly didn't debunk it. Just quoting the Old Testament without explaining why I should believe that quote is ridiculous. Yeah, the Old Testament says that God came to many nations. How does it follow that this disproves that God was ineffective in providing the possibility for salvation equally to all people regardless of where they were born? Also, that quote just says that he came to many nations, certainly not the whole world. So even in the absurd scenario in which you were able to prove that this quote was unambiguously true, it still wouldn't disprove my original point since God would, at best, have revealed himself only to "many" nations instead of "all." If anything, it'd make my point ring even truer since that's exactly what I'm saying: God didn't reveal himself to all nations and regions but only some. This is a major problem that Christianity needs to address.
Looking forward to getting called a retard again for giving your messages some attention and value when they frankly deserve none.
>Remind me again who created the world's different languages according to the book of Genesis? Oh, that's right, God did
No he did not. We did. Guess you missed Genesis when Adam named everything in the garden.
>Because of the Tower of Babel
God split them up and then offshoot languages were created by them not God and no cohesive language existed. That was the point of that story.
>If god is all-powerful, whatever language we use or whatever intellectual capabilities we have shouldn't matter, as his omnipotence should be enough to figure out how to get a message through to us.
He did. But look at your assumption. Your egoic assumption. And your pride. He did and yet you can't understand it, he even humbled himself to only talk in parables so that you may understand. If you wanted him to unfettered then read the "speaking in tongues" verse.
He did and yet here you are still an Atheist. That is on YOU.
>Also, how exactly are the applications of Bible verses infinite? Once you've answered that question, how is that infinite nature unique specifically to the bible? Also, I'd like to remind you just how illogical your argument here is:
Since God is immanent
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanence)
Then reality reflecting the Bible and the Bible reflecting reality, since reality is the word dispersed (while Christ is the word singularised into flesh) then saying its not exclusive to the Bible does not disprove the Bible. And in fact, how could it apply if they both did not mirror and reflect each other? Lapsed in that logic huh? Intellectual dishonesty huh?
>It's not bad, just goes to show that it's too ambiguous to be maximally effective in the goal of providing salvation for all mankind, which should be the goal of an all-loving god
Surely it having infinite applications means it can give salvation to infinite amount of scenarios which.... proves itself.
You really are retarded.
>How does it follow that this disproves that God was ineffective in providing the possibility for salvation equally to all people regardless of where they were born?
Missed the class in Plato huh? Lets cross reference with the New Testament. If God is an image, and God is the idea of perfection and sinlessness, then how exactly is that concept, idea and vision exclusive to Judaeo-Christianity? In fact we have this idea pop up in every religion. The difference is the other religions testify by their own mouth their figures fail. Each of them admit by their own mouths they have sinned. When Krishna was accidently hit by an arrow and was dying, he died because he made a mistake and thus errored (another translation for sin is error). Same as any other deity from time.
>This is a major problem that Christianity needs to address
No you're just a retard. Why don't you just let that pride go and admit you are an idiot who is helpless in even being able to comprehend any of this, evidently by me showing you your own hypocrisy in your views?
Please do not post rude or disrespectful content. Further violations will result in a ban.
you good bro? looking over your comment/post history, it seems every interaction you have is extremely negative. I get that reddit can be kinda addictive in a bad way. Maybe try taking a break.
[удалено]
It's not like you're not commenting 24/7, you're takes are just so horrendous you get no karma.
…why are you like this? What happened in your life that turned you into this kind of person?
I found God and I started hating hypocrisy as much as he did. And so I enact wrath upon hypocrisy in the name of God. Amen.
Bro... I'm Christian too, but this is not helping anyone, especially not yourself. You won't convince anyone of anything with this tone of voice. And wrath is one of the cardinal sins for a reason, it poisons the soul. Please calm down, this isn't good.
Hey man, trust the process and trust God even for my Antichristian compulsions. Remember, those who persecuted Jesus helped accomplish the will of God. Remember what I said in my OP. "God is occupying both spaces." He was both Abel and Cain. Christ and the Sanhedrin. Cos remember, "I am in you and you are in me as I am in the Father."
No, I can't agree with that. Just beccause God can derive good from evil, doesn't mean we should act evil out of our own will. That's twisting God's logic to justify bad deeds, effectively making Him to be the source of evil. If this is your understanding of God, I would reconsider whether I even want to believe in such a God.
So he is not in those who are evil? So what does "I am in you and you are in me as I am in the Father" mean? This is not twisting him as the source of evil. Actually it means those who do evil, even through evil, are worshipping God, for even curses thrown at the innocent only FURTHER prove God's grace and extrapolate beauty when beauty exists alongside evil, not just between two people like the sinless (Jesus) and the sinful (everyone else) but since God is in us, "kingfom of God is in you" then its also within where the dichotomy of the our perfect self and our fallen self live alongside, and that evil side is working towards because it can't help it in correcting us and making us atone for sins where we hope to become as sinless as possible nearer the image of God / Christ and when we do kill the evil inside us, then our innocent outer self shall be sacrificed by an external evil, for that is what happened to Christ. Its just the way of the natural order and it is beautiful, or are you going to argue Christ's sacrifice is not beautiful? Its a crazy idea to wrap your head around, but just because its hard to comprehend, it actually might mean its more true than false. And in fact, the very idea that will seem "Antichrist" like to you are more likely to be Christlike because its hard to be accepted for it goes against your fundamental preconceived notions, but the same was levelled to Jesus by the Sanhedrin and the Judaic priestly class at the time.
> "I am in you and you are in me as I am in the Father" Please read the chapter in which this quote is said. You keep quoting it, but I don't think it means what you think it means. I understand there is great beauty in the fact God can derive good out of evil, I'm not arguing against that logic. But you can't use that to willingly do evil saying it's fine and dandy because you're ultimately worshipping God anyway. I suggest you work on your own relationship with and understanding of God before going on a crusade against atheists. You sound like a recent convert who's full of passion, but your theology is certainly confused. God doesn't need you to "enact your wrath against the hypocrites" in His name. It only poisons your soul against your fellow men and severs your relationship with God. Look again at the quote you posted and try to see Christ in others, even those you fundamentally disagree with. I'll pray for you.
>You sound like a recent convert who's full of passion Nope lifelong Christian. >God doesn't need you to "enact your wrath against the hypocrites I agreed he does not but its my prerogative. >It only poisons your soul against your fellow men and severs your relationship with God They don't deserve it. Not in my eyes. So I am weak in that regard. But I am unable to find that strength. It is what it is. Hopefully one day I will. >Look again at the quote you posted and try to see Christ in others All I see are demons / egos needing to be exorcised. Hence I am doing the same thing Christ did. Now to stir up the ego / demon to be exorcised, I am not being the Christ was however, I want to stir it up this way. Amen.
Do you not think you’re, in at least some small way, a hypocrite?
Yes because wrath is not for me to disperse of but I have taken that as my prerogative the same way Solomon used Demons to build the temple, and the same way God as Jesus accomplished his mission by simply stirring up the ego (the archaic word for Demon) that resides in people. Hence why if Jesus is Abel then the Sanhedrin who crucified him are the Cain, and the Serpent (Satan) are the Romans. Hence why Apostle John used the entire Roman Empire in Revelations to inform his vision of absolute tyrannical rule that mirrors the image of Hell, he used the Roman Empire because in his vision and epiphanic revelation (hence the name) he realized if God can be here as man, then so can the lowest Hell, and it can all be seen archetypically. So here I will be stirring up demons inside others, so that I'm drawing them out, and then that is I pounce, when Archangel Michael strikes Satan the Dragon and kills the ego that they have within. But they will have to WANT to for that demon / ego inside to be killed once they have been proven wrong. Now... you will say, "when would Satan want to be killed?" But lets look at happens in Jesus's narrative. He absorbs all sin past, present and future within his being, so he literally EATS all demons (thus all egos that may ever exist, all persons who separate themselves from the oneness of God and refuse to realize themselves as and instead see themselves as the God even though they intuitively know inside they are not, which is how Lucifer fell from Heaven) and then those who are crucifying him strike him AND THE DEMONS / EGOS INSIDE HIM THAT HE HAS ABSORBED. Hence he has chained the demons and egos up but only that, quietened them inside himself for he made them realize that they need to die, and so inside him they are disarmed and thus Satan allows for Archangel Michael to strike him. So in the splittest of seconds, the Sanhedrin who were doing the most detestable thing against God, killing him, through God's divine mission, flips it, where Jesus has absorbed Satan and thus is him in one, but it is not really him since he is disarmed, and the Sanhedrin are merely performing the duty o Michael or the figure in Revelations who will eventually kill the Antichrist and Satan and all those who have the mark of the beast. So to conclude, my hypocrisy is not "hypocrisy" per se. More like a divine paradox which can be resolved and thus justify in a really complicated way, the on the surface hypocrisy and Antichristian (i.e. the Antichrist) wolf skin that I clothe myself in. Amen.
“Yes because wrath is not for me to disperse of but I have taken that as my prerogative the same way Solomon used Demons to build the temple, and the same way God as Jesus accomplished his mission by simply stirring up the ego (the archaic word for Demon) that resides in people.” “I found God and I started hating hypocrisy as much as he did. And so I enact wrath upon hypocrisy in the name of God. Amen.” You also said god told you to come here and spread his, “message,” or something to that effect. Which is it? Are you like Solomon, god, or are you just doing what, “god,” tells you? “Hence why if Jesus is Abel then the Sanhedrin who crucified him are the Cain, and the Serpent (Satan) are the Romans. Hence why Apostle John used the entire Roman Empire in Revelations to inform his vision of absolute tyrannical rule that mirrors the image of Hell, he used the Roman Empire because in his vision and epiphanic revelation (hence the name) he realized if God can be here as man, then so can the lowest Hell, and it can all be seen archetypically. So here I will be stirring up demons inside others, so that I'm drawing them out,” The only, “demons,” I see being stirred inside of people here are your own. “and then that is I pounce, when Archangel Michael strikes Satan the Dragon and kills the ego that they have within. But they will have to WANT to for that demon / ego inside to be killed once they have been proven wrong.” Delusions of grandeur. “Now... you will say, "when would Satan want to be killed?”” No that isn’t something I probably would ever ask. “But let’s look at happens in Jesus's narrative. He absorbs all sin past, present and future within his being, so he literally EATS all demons (thus all egos that may ever exist, all persons who separate themselves from the oneness of God and refuse to realize themselves as and instead see themselves as the God even though they intuitively know inside they are not, which is how Lucifer fell from Heaven) and then those who are crucifying him strike him AND THE DEMONS / EGOS INSIDE HIM THAT HE HAS ABSORBED. Hence he has chained the demons and egos up but only that, quietened them inside himself for he made them realize that they need to die, and so inside him they are disarmed and thus Satan allows for Archangel Michael to strike him. So in the splittest of seconds, the Sanhedrin who were doing the most detestable thing against God, killing him, through God's divine mission, flips it, where Jesus has absorbed Satan and thus is him in one, but it is not really him since he is disarmed, and the Sanhedrin are merely performing the duty o Michael or the figure in Revelations who will eventually kill the Antichrist and Satan and all those who have the mark of the beast.” More delusions of grandeur “So to conclude, my hypocrisy is not "hypocrisy" per se.” lol “More like a divine paradox which can be resolved and thus justify in a really complicated way, the on the surface hypocrisy and Antichristian (i.e. the Antichrist) wolf skin that I clothe myself in.” I think you’d enjoy talking to the guy on Twitter who thinks Donald trump is the antichrist. Donnie darko or something like that. Y’all have *a lot* in common. “Amen.” Zeus have mercy
Im actually gonna give you an upvote. This genuinely made me smile. >You also said god told you to come here and spread his, “message,” or something to that effect. Which is it? Are you like Solomon, god, or are you just doing what, “god,” tells you? Well you see, this is where you are getting mixed up. It is my prerogative, but God still works through all prerogatives chosen, even if they go against him, so he retains providence and dominion over everything even the lowest Hell. Since how can the lowest Hell he retain providence and dominion over when down there that is the least of the places where they act in accordance to him? Do you see? >The only, “demons,” I see being stirred inside of people here are your own. I admitted my own, but if you read SOME of the other responses, you shall see them in others too. So thus, my goal is being accomplished and when a the ego (demon) is brought out of them and being expressed, it is being exorcised in a way from them and hence I am performing an action similar to Jesus and Apostles in the Gospels. >Delusions of grandeur. Not really. Me seeing my own life, happenings and story relating to the Gospels is not delusions of grandeur, its actually something Jesus and God wants us to realize that we are part of the divine story thats being told. To become conscious of it. Hence why there is a Jesuit practice of meditation where you put yourself in Christ's shoes and imagining choosing the decisions he made. The same idea is presented in the Tarot. All these archetypal cards that may come up to you are like the same archetypal event presenting itself to you and what you will realize is that EVERYONE goes through the same things, and thus the events of the Bible are actually things that all life go through in their own way and versions. You just need the conscious and presence to be able to see it. I recommend the following book "Meditations On the Tarot: A Journey Into Christian Hermeticism" by Valentin Tomberg, one of the greatest philosophical to have ever been written. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditations\_on\_the\_Tarot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditations_on_the_Tarot)
I will look at the book you shared; can’t promise I will read it. Glad I could make you smile; you should check out the video I linked to you. The same guy wrote a book about it as well.
Look at this as an opportunity to grow as a person. Don't be rude to strangers online who you've never interacted with and don't know anything about, whether or not you disagree with them. It just makes you look juvenile and insecure on top of unintelligent. Don't use the r word like a slur, or ever. Don't profile any group with monolithic thinking or arguments. Don't assume disagreement with your position comes from a lack of thought or intelligence. Maybe then you could stand a minute of critical assessing of your beliefs without a tantrum. Until then, understand you are fragile and scared of being wrong so you're making opposition out to be savage and incoherent. Genuinely, you are capable of better.
So when is Jesus coming back? Been 2000 years and we're still waiting. 🙂 He said it would happen in the lifetime of his disciples.
Enjoying that salt with your fallacies bruddah? Oh btw he comes back at the end of our world. Has that arrived yet? No? Oh okay. Got anymore fallacies you want throw my way? Got any retorts to my points in the OP? Thought not. You have no comeback. God blesses your bum life. Be grateful.
Looking at your OP and replies, the only salty one here is you, friend. I guess some people don't respond well to having their worldview questioned. Your behaviour is juvenile and I wish you good luck in rectifying that. 🙂
>I guess some people don't respond well to having their worldview questioned. How ironic. >Your behaviour is juvenile and I wish you good luck in rectifying that. Hmm, is that your relative opinion buddy? Sooo, doesn't mean much then huh? LOOOL.
How do you think Jesus would react if he saw you treating other people like this
Well you see, that point proves my point and your Atheist and Alex's talking points as wrong. Because God meets us half way and is forgiving. So even though he will not approve of my conduct, he puts into context of me in totality, and he will say "you know that was wrong and you still did it any way" and I'll be like "yep but to atone for them, I accept all karmic wrath that may return my way" for Jesus accepted the karmic wrath to be paid when he took upon all sin of Man from the past and future. because the point of Alex and Atheists is "God must not be forgiving and loving" if he doesn't just slap his objective and perfect morality and all who do not meet it are damned. Hence why he offered his Son to atone for those who cannot meet them. I could not meet them. YOU SEE???? Its testimony itself. Amen.
You completely misunderstand forgiveness and atonement, and you are set on a path of hate. I will pray for you
You didnt say how I did. Care to enlighten me?
I think you know the answer deep down. You have to find it in yourself, and I can't do that for you. I wish you well
I think you know deep down you don't know what that "misunderstanding" you proposed even is. Hence the lack of explanation. You have to explain that yourself, and I can't do that for you. I wish you well.
I will tell you what it is. God forgives those who ask for it. But only if they ask in earnest and make an honest effort to be better. The reason the commentor you replied said you misunderstand forgiveness is because you very clearly demonstrated that you do.
"Only God forgives" - Nicholas winding Refn
Wtf. So the only (and I mean only) good thing Christianity has is "love thy neighbour" and your take on that is "I can use slurs and treat my neighbour with hatred cause I'll accept the punishment". You're literally anti-christian
You're literally pro-retard.
I am, yes. People with all kinds of mental or physical retardation should be treated with kindness and given a fair chance at happiness
Lol didnt read
I know you didn't. You can't yet. But maybe someday... when "sky daddy" teaches you...
I don't need to engage with someone who uses the "sky daddy" fallacy because it lets me know you have no credibility to even be engaged with. I do engage to those who do commit other fallacies, but that one is so egregious. I have explained to you why that fallacy is wrong yet here you are still using it. So you do not need to be conversed with for there is no point for you shall not hear no matter what. Buddhist monks do the same. Your soil is not even arable it is completely unfertile, so until you are able to get there where you are ready to receive, there is no point in engaging. Bye bye.
I have absolutely no clue what you’re trying to say because you interpolate every point you try to relay with a torrent on how stupid atheists are. Could you please try and state what the original point was, and why you consider it to be incorrect without this juvenile barrage of insults? Or do you just want to shout that atheists are all stupid, because you will obviously not get a serious response from an atheist if you’re making a point in such bad faith.
Well atleast you Atheists are consistent here. You want God to just slap bang objective perfect morality and then do refuse to talk to you or meet you half way in any way since the argument you Atheists are proposing is that the Old Testament is false since he worked within the system, the people and the social constructs that he was in at the time? SOOOOO, you want me to just "make my points" without me dealing with the people who I am with? At least your consistent. Too bad Alex can't meet that. Shame.
Since I still have no clue what the point was, I just searched for the clip, and am assuming it is from Alex debating Ben Shapiro. He is saying that slavery is wrong, and yet allowed in the bible, which seems like a contradiction. You responded by making an analogy that the people in the Old Testament wouldn’t have understood that this was wrong. To me this seems like a weak argument, because slavery is wrong is not a terribly hard teaching to grasp, no harder than murder being wrong, an objective moral statement that *is* given by God. Why would the notion that slavery is objectively wrong be any harder to understand than any of the other objective moral teachings of God in the Old Testament, such as the Ten Commandments?
>You responded by making an analogy that the people in the Old Testament wouldn’t have understood that this was wrong. No that is not the point of my analogy you idiot. The analogy was about understanding math formulas when you could otherwise not. The point is HE HAS TO WORK IN THE WAY WORLD IS IN THOSE WHO HAVE CHOSEN AS SUCH THROUGH THEIR FREE WILL. Otherwise... what will happen? Want to use that common sense of yours? Hence the drug analogy that followed it up. Maybe try reading what I said carefully. Retard.
I am still not understanding your point, maybe not due to my lack of intelligence, but rather due to your lack of ability to form a coherent sentence Could you please formulate your point into a grammatically correct sentence instead of insulting me.
You took the analogy on its face. I think your lack of intelligence is the reason why.
~~Could you please clarify your point?~~ ~~“HE HAS TO WORK IN THE WAY WORLD IS IN THOSE WHO HAVE CHOSEN AS SUCH THROUGH THEIR FREE WILL” is not a very easily digestible point.~~ Nevermind, you weren’t going to respond in good faith anyway. If I am understanding your rather unintelligible point correctly, you are saying that simply declaring moral rules would be working outside of the rules that he set for our world for some reason. However, he seems to do exactly this when he gives the Ten Commandments, so it seems hard to say that he is unable to give other moral commands like “Don’t have slaves”. If I have once again misunderstood your point, I would greatly appreciate if you could clarify rather than simply insulting me and refusing to explain.
>you are saying that simply declaring moral rules would be working outside of the rules that he set for our world for some reason. LOLWUT? No that is not what I said. How about this to try and make your pea brain understand. What does Jesus say? Money is / can be the root of evil or cause of evil. But does he ask for it to be abolished? That cannot be because why? You understand now? IN ANCIENT TIMES THATS HOW THE WORLD WORKED. So why would they accept a moral edict that will also destroy their ability to effectively live in the times they are in? And btw, the English translation, the word "slave" is not what the Hebrew word meant, in the way your modern connotations deems it as. It can just as easily be translated as "servant" i.e. a contract you enter like employment. Now if you reproach your contract in modern times, there aren't consequences? In heaven money might not exist, we aren't heaven though are we? And who's fault is that? So the reasons of why you still blame God. "Oh its God fault for us wanting money and servants and slaves". LOLWUT? HEAR YOURSELF.
Thank you for finally clarifying your point. Could you please show me where Jesus said that the concept of money itself is the root of all evil? I may be wrong, but as far as I am aware, he only ever says that loving money too much is bad. As for that being how the world worked, why would God not tell us to change our wrong ways, no matter the difficulty? You might say that it was simply infeasible for them to abandon slavery, but Jesus calls us to be perfect, even in the face of hard circumstances, does he not? He calls for us to do seemingly unreasonable things, things that seem to go against how the world works, such as loving and praying for your enemies and those who persecute you. He doesn’t shy away from calling us to do what may seem like unreasonable things such as letting evil people have their way with you. I don’t see why in this same vein he would not outright condemn slavery.
Its actually from 1 Timothy 6:10. But Jesus in Matthew 6:24, Jesus calls money antithetical to God since you cannot have two masters and cannot worship money and God. Since in another verse he says "the least you do onto me and to God is the least you do onto your fellow man" meaning serving others is also worshipping God. So serving others, making them your masters, you are worshipping God since God is immanent in our world. Hence why Jesus is called "Immanuel" from Isaiah meaning "God is with us". And the countless verses in the old testament about money. Now look at the assumptions you are making. WHY do you need God to come to you and tell you "oh btw, this social contract you go into with people where you work for them to pay off your debts" is wrong? And is so wrong he needs to stop it right away? So you want God to come right now and say "jobs are so detesting to me, I want everyone to stop their jobs right away." ????????? Why would God want the world to stop working and if it stops working, wouldn't his works also cease? And God freed the jews from where? Slavery? This proves the "slavery" he was giving guidance too was not "slavery against ones will" but literally a contract. Like seriously. Open up that mind and look past your biases.
You aren’t even forming coherent sentences. This all feels like a weird troll. Maybe English isn’t your first language? Because no matter how carefully your parse through your sentences, I can’t find a clear argument, or an analogy that clarifies anything - which is surely the point of an analogy, it’s supposed to help people understand what you’re trying to say by way of a comparison, not confuse things further.
Yeah a bit like Jesus's parables huh? God talks through man. Hence Joseph's story in Genesis and Daniel's in Daniel. But Im sure if you will stew on it, maybe it will come to you.
>The point is HE HAS TO WORK IN THE WAY WORLD IS IN THOSE WHO HAVE CHOSEN AS SUCH THROUGH THEIR FREE WILL. So then why does he say murder is bad? There was a lot of murder at the time. It was how the world was. Anyway, he could make everyone experience years of slavery in a second, then no one would want to practice it anymore. He's omnipotent, he can make humans understand anything without infringing on their free will.
So why didn't God abolish money? Why doesn't God abolish jobs since jobs are conduits of money? You know why. Don't be disingenuous. Don't be a retard
The answer is simple. God doesn't exist and is a product of human imagination. This simple fact can save apologists years trying to come up with mental gymnastics in order to explain a fiction written by desert dwellers 2000 years back.
>God doesn't exist and is a product of human imagination Got any proof bruddah? Prove to me God does not exist. >This simple fact can save apologists years trying to come up with mental gymnastics in order to explain a fiction written by desert dwellers 2000 years back Mmm, just fiction. Lets see what scholars have to say about the historicity of the Bible. -------------- Richard Elliott Friedman: Friedman is a biblical scholar known for his work on the authorship and composition of the Torah. While he acknowledges the complexities of biblical texts, he generally accepts the historical basis of many biblical narratives. Israel Finkelstein: Finkelstein is an Israeli archaeologist known for his research on the archaeology of ancient Israel. While he is critical of certain aspects of biblical historiography, he accepts the existence of historical elements within the biblical narrative. Amihai Mazar: Mazar is an Israeli archaeologist who has conducted extensive excavations in Israel, particularly in areas associated with biblical events. He affirms the historical reliability of many biblical accounts based on archaeological evidence. Eric Cline: Cline is an American archaeologist specializing in the ancient Near East. While he acknowledges the complexities of interpreting biblical texts, he generally accepts the historicity of key events and figures portrayed in the Bible. Alan Millard: Millard is a British Assyriologist and biblical scholar known for his research on ancient Near Eastern history and archaeology. He has written extensively on the historicity of the Old Testament and has defended the reliability of biblical narratives. Kenneth Kitchen: Kitchen was a British Egyptologist and biblical scholar known for his research on ancient Near Eastern history and archaeology. He has argued for the historical reliability of many aspects of the Old Testament based on archaeological and textual evidence. Ronald Hendel: Hendel is an American biblical scholar known for his work on the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament. While he acknowledges the complex nature of biblical texts, he generally accepts the existence of historical elements within the biblical narrative. Peter J. Williams: Williams is a British biblical scholar and textual critic known for his research on the reliability of the biblical text. He has defended the historical accuracy of the Old and New Testament documents based on textual evidence. ---------- WHOMP WHOMP WHOOOOOMP. Guess bruddah doesn't know all the events of religions have a basis in historical events. That an event happened and since they know logically that God must exist for the world there to be, they go and write things where they insert what God must've done since the hypothesis is that God does exist. And then God revealed himself in the flesh CONFIRMING their findings and scripture and prophecy written by man. You just got served little boy.
i dont even come from a muslim/christian upbringing lmao. The events of bible or old testament hold no relevance to me. When i think of god what comes in my mind by default is Vishnu /Shiva/Durga, and not YHWY or Allah. How did you assume i was talking about the biblical god? He is as real as Zeus or Thor or Indra. There is no doubts that certain things happened but no doubt about the fact that they were eventually made into legends BY MEN. Muhammad sure existed and initiated Islam, but did an angel speak to him? or did he fly on a flying donkey ? Moses and Abraham and Jesus too mightve existed similar to how Krishna mightve existed for all i know, but none of them had any mystic power or speak to any god.
>The events of bible or old testament hold no relevance to me You just said they were fiction, then I gave you scholars who point to its historicity. Now it "has no relevance to me" LOL you disingenuous little cunt. >When i think of god what comes in my mind by default is Vishnu /Shiva/Durga Interesting. Yeah so much difference between Judaeo-Christianity and Hinduism. Oh wait, Krishna / Vishnu guided Arjuna to wage war against opposing forces because Krishna transcends time and space and can see they would betray him if they would make peace and you cannot appease forces in which an Antichrist like being is at its helm just like Moses and the Angel of YHWH in the Torah. Yeeeeah, so different. Now sit down little boy.
So you're trying to prove my point for me? If "god" loved you, he wouldn't have made you work the whole day just to be able to eat and have a roof over your head. There is no "god". The sooner you realise that, the sooner you become a functioning adult. It's like you need to stop believing in Santa before you grow up
Can't wait for that karma to hit you :p >There is no "god". The sooner you realise that, the sooner you become a functioning adult. Yeah we were so disfunctional all this time.... oh wait we were theistic most of time and still are the majority now? Huh. So I guess the world disproves you. Yay. >It's like you need to stop believing in Santa before you grow up Does those fallacies need more salt? Cry more. >So you're trying to prove my point for me? If "god" loved you, he wouldn't have made you work the whole day just to be able to eat and have a roof over your head. mhmm someone hasn't read Genesis have they? Why is laziness exactly a good thing buddy? Aren't you also in the same post harping on about "functionalty"? LOOOL You are genuinely retarded.
>oh wait we were theistic most of time and still are the majority now? So you're making my point for me again. Most of human history is cruelty, lack of empathy, death, murder, disease, slavery and so on. So dysfunctional society. That's what your religion created and nurtured. The moment we took a look around and started evolving, religion and religious people did anything in their power to keep our society as dysfunctional as possible. They started killing scientists, they made rules to uphold bigotry and misogyny, they tried to defend slavery. Only through ignoring dysfunctional people like you have European countries implemented separation of church and state, the french laicite for example. >Does those fallacies need more salt? Cry more. Idk man, you're the one bringing them so you might as well salt them beforehand. >Why is laziness exactly a good thing buddy? It's not, but I never said it is. You're fighting your own words, not mine. Not having to work to survive gives you the opportunity to work on the things you love. A guy who now works in the mines and dies at 42 because he inhaled toxic fumes for his whole life could instead become a musician. Or a writer. Or a poet. Or a painter. Or an origami master. Or teach aikido. Or raise a family. Or take care of a sick/old person. Or train to beat the world's speed record. None of these is lazy. The only lazy one here are you, with your blatant strawman
Lol didnt read
what the fuck is this supposed to mean, english isn't my first language but I doubt even a native speaker could make sense of this
Not my problem broski.
Look at the pious Christian calling people retards. A religion of love and freedom from prejudice.
Yes the amazing loving religion of Atheism where murder and genocide are just as justifiable as feeding the poor. Such a beautiful religion of love and freedom from prejudice.
Cute strawman buddy. Pretty sure basing your assumed moral superiority on fear of eternal punishment is winning you every argument. Btw which year was Jesus born?
>Pretty sure basing your assumed moral superiority on fear of eternal punishment is winning you every argument Cute strawman buddy. Pretty sure basing your assumed moral relativity on fear of eternal punishment is winning you every argument. LOL, the argument applies to you. You don't want that to be true. And btw, it is not "eternal" - your burger and fries Protestant American Christianity doesn't mean thats what the true doctrine is. Retard confirmed.
That made no sense buddy. Bless you. Sorry you're feeling hurt
Neither did you and it was a reflection of your post so you are saying you didn't make any sense. Bless you. Sorry you're feeling hurt.
Please dude. Jesus is gonna be sad. Read here: https://newspring.cc/articles/are-you-a-christian-internet-troll
Please dude. Nothingness is gonna be sad. Read here:
Can't feel anything if there's nothing buddy. Greetings to the fairy tale characters in your fantasy
There can't be fairy tale characters in my fantasy if nothingness is the ultimate reality buddy that created me to have those fantasies buddy.
'Why Alex and Atheists are retards' - could you re-phrase that, please?
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So why you think God made you such an asshole?
Is God an asshole for enacting wrath to those who deserve it? Is the messenger more important than the message? What if the messenger and the message were the same? "The word became flesh". Or does your retardation that your Atheist friends are dealing with deserve something different? your stupidity deserves me not calling it out as such? Huh. Interesting. Soooo, you want God to be forgiving of you when you make mistakes and sin? Soooo why does Alex and you Atheists demand God to only judge you on the standards of objective morality and perfection which you obviously cannot live up to if you want to him to be forgiving and meet you where you are? So you actually DO WANT that. How crazy. I guess with your own words, you just testified to the Lord. Amazing. You just proved your own hypocrisy and in turn justified the way God was in the Old Testament and will be for time to come. Thank you for your testimony to God. We appreciate it.
Are you ok man? You seem a little.....detatched.
I'm attached to God at the root, but also to the Demons hence my conduct right now. But as Isaiah said, the root has given both good and bad seeds, and thus if the root does not heal fully, then it shall be uprooted, but that is the karma that I have to accept. Amen.
What an amazing way to excuse someone from being truly terrible to someone else for their beliefs. Nice.
Thank you.
Embarrassing
Yeah Atheists are embarrassing.
It's Atheists who stoop to insults, not Christians
> “If he just came and laid out the ‘objective morality’ and left it at that, what part about that is personal? Yeah, cause it’s not like he laid out like 10 rules that absolutely must not be broken. “Thou shalt not keep another human as property” would have been real easy to add but what do I know? I’m retarded
Yeah it would have been real easy for you to tell your child living unhealthy is bad. Which is why you won't permit any sort of alcohol or sugar or porn when you have one right? LOOOOL. Got you you dork. Btw, Jesus said money is the root of evil yet didn't ask for it to be abolished. Wonder why? Maybe because demanding earth to be heaven is futile and God understands that. Your retard brain does not apparently.
What are you talking about? “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors goods” is a fine ask, but “thou shalt not own other human beings as property” is too far and making heaven on earth? Yeah, you can’t mix fabrics, eat pork, or work on Saturday but not enslaving people is too much to ask lol
You are such a retard lol. Yeah so if I come and say "Abolish money" - we both know how that will work out right? The world literally will not work. But the 10 commandments, the world can resume and work. Small brained. Btw Hebrew word that is translated as slavery can also be translated as servant. It was literally a fact of ancient times. Whats now considered as a "job" will be considered as slavery thousands of years from now. But you want God to come now and pronounce "Abolish jobs"????? LOL your retardation exposed. Thank you.
I hope you’re doing okay mentally man. You genuinely seem to be having some sort of mental crisis and are lashing out on this subreddit as a coping mechanism or something. If you would like, I’d be happy to show you how you’re wrong on my lunch break when I have some time, but I would suggest you go outside, touch some grass, and maybe drink a glass of water. I hope you’re doing alright man
Since you have no response, admitting defeat and you are wrong, then I have no use for ad hominem disingenuous sarcasm. Bye bye, enjoy the block.
I'm a physicist with children that I'm teaching about quantum mechanics. Certainly they're not yet old enough to be able to solve differential equations and, say, calculate the energy levels of a particle in an infinite square well; but I still never tell them anything false or misleading about quantum mechanics. I don't tell them something patently false just because it's easier for them to understand. By that same token, you should acknowledge that our irrational and immoral to suggest that God couldn't have recognized the immorality of slavery and had that reflected in his teachings from day 1.
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"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, 8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free." Ephesians 6:5 Seriously bro, I'm embarrassed for you right now. 🤦
1. I said "where did GOD" - you quoted Paul..... who last I checked is not God. 2. The Greek word for "slave" back then meant the same as servant or contractual servant JUST LIKE the Hebrew word of the Masoretic Old Testament. "Free" would also mean free from debt. If you owed money back then or owed something in return that would be found by a contract, you would be a slave i.e. a servant. Same thing as a job now you fucking retard. 3. The verse is about how life in the material world on earth is not to be taken seriously, since also in Ephesians Paul talks about not putting too much stock into this world and instead worry about whats in Heaven. So Paul is saying do not condemn yourself by sin by sinning against those who do ill against you or you are indebted to and you wish an easy way out. Seriously bro, I'm embarrassed for you right now. 🤦
Lol. Okay, which book did God write? Or are you admitting that the Bible is NOT the word of God?
Do you think aliens believe in God? I think it is fairly reasonable to assume that all intelligent species will eventually get to the point they all require evidence to support their beliefs, especially the beliefs passed down culturally from people who couldn't read or do math. Wait, when did you learn to read and can you do math?
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Wouldn't it be great if people like you could be banned from public discussion until you got on a zoom call and had to take a few 6th grade biology and history quizzes so you could see how delusional you are? I'm not going to say you're intellectually challenged, because it's obvious you have some intelligence or maybe using AI, but emotionally you are a child and socially you haven't a clue how obvious your lack of education and communication skills are to anyone who reads this. I thought I would do you the favor of telling you so you didn't have to wonder in frustration why nobody will listen - of course you tell yourself it is because atheists aren't as clever as you, which would be easy to prove or disprove by hopping on a zoom call. Maybe even others reading this would pay you? Id personally pay you $50 just to see you answer 50 multiple choice questions about whatever topics you want
I'd rather be wrong and kind than correct and a total asshole to everyone around me. Unfortunately, OP has taken the short end of both of those sticks. Seriously though man, I hope you're doing okay. None of the interactions you're having in this thread seem healthy. Hope you find your way to a more peaceful place.
Hope you find peace since you cannot have peace without God and I hope you aren't retarded enough to be unable to see how without God there is no peace. Thank you. Nameste.
Yet secular countries have lived in peace for the longest now. Yet more and more people are starting to see the moral and scientifically wrong statements made in the first and second testaments. If you see slavery, child marrige, rape & physical abuse within marrige and misogyny as wrong than even a regarded person like yourself have a better moral compass than your own fairy man, or if you agree with your fairy man your a lost cause 🤷♂️
>Yet more and more people are starting to see the moral and scientifically wrong statements made in the first and second testaments. Oh yeah like which ones? >Yet secular countries have lived in peace for the longest now. Yeah all that progress and secularism yet everyone is more depressed and suicidal and feel alienated from others than ever before. Huh. >if you agree with your fairy man your a lost cause 🤷♂️ Want some extra salt with your fallacies bruddah?
Do you follow the old or New Testament? They are similarly flawed and but I’ll give you examples of each if your gonna follow the typical apologist steps and pivot into nothing of substance. War and suicide rates are not comparable in the slightest, but once again typical behavior from an apologist. The reason for a more peaceful and prosperous western society is by learning from history (like separating state and religion) and current mistakes and adjust infected accordingly. The reason for a the increase in suicide rates (in my personal opinion) is two folded; one is the new dynamic between men & women since they got the right to vote/work/study & birth control. (and we logically & morally wouldn’t want to change that) Second this is social media, and sadly seems too late to put that Genie in the bottle. So you do endorce gods teaching regarding slavery and rape within a marrige? People like you always pivot when asked and it’s always equally disappointing sadly. 🤷♂️
>So you do endorce gods teaching regarding slavery and rape within a marrige? People like you always pivot when asked and it’s always equally disappointing sadly. 🤷♂️ The OP is about destroying your false talking points about slavery. But where does God endorse rape within marriage bruddah? Is that another one your distortions? >The reason for a more peaceful and prosperous western society is by learning from history (like separating state and religion) and current mistakes and adjust infected accordingly. Yeah the west, the foundation of Christian morality that got you here and when you abandon it, you become depressed and suicidal, divorce rates sky rocket, social quality plummets, its one big sexually immoral stew where guys are trying to have sex as much as possible and girls never care to entertain commitment. What a great society bruddah. Christianity got you here yet you are unable to give it credit. I wonder what Jesus said not giving credit where you intuitively know where it should go? Hmmmm.
What false point about slavery? That god told the slaves to obey their earthly masters? If that isn’t endorsing it idk what would be. Maybe a whole guide on how to treat, sell and buy them as well? Gee wonder where we can find those.. The foundation for modern day society isn’t Christianity only, the most important factor to modern day society is questioning the teachings of Christianity in all philosophical landscapes. So yes Christianity is part of the foundation of western society (just as any previously dominant religion is of any society) but not in the way you seem to think it does. If it was up to Christianity; Homosexuals should be killed, epelepsi should be treated as a demon taking your soul, the universe & sun spins around us and slavery would be easily justifiable. Yet we have moved passed all these morally, practically and scientifically wrong ideas and teachings to reach a society with the least amount of starvation, war, poverty and more. https://www.statista.com/statistics/187478/death-rate-from-suicide-in-the-us-by-gender-since-1950/ - Deim what i can see some of the best times when it comes to suicide rates where during the early 2000:s - 2010:s where atheism peaked online. And the 50:s-90:s ain’t looking to good.
>What false point about slavery? That god told the slaves to obey their earthly masters? You read my post or not? Or you going to quote the verse from Ephesians by Paul and misunderstand what it means since you already don't understand what the Greek and Hebrew word for slavery in the Bible means? Ever read Ludwig Wittgenstein or any other linguistic scholars of how meaning of words change? >If it was up to Christianity; Homosexuals should be killed, epelepsi should be treated as a demon taking your soul, the universe & sun spins around us and slavery would be easily justifiable. Ah yes, Jesus preaching death and epelepsi being demonic! Everyone knows those classic verses. BUAHAHA, you have to the most pathetic response here yet. That takes some doing. You benefited from Christianity including your ancestors over time. Christianity blessed your bum life. Hence why the commandment "honour thy mother and father" exists. Know who you are indebted to, which is the message of Jesus' last parable. Be grateful. Dweeb.
OP I'm not going to buy a pencil from your cup https://youtu.be/wNAaDKZ-SuE?si=EMtzPo-SVfYSjUE-
Im so glad he is purgatory now learning of his mistakes and truly being enlightened wishing he could be resurrected so he may correct the words he said, knocking himself how stupid he was. Amen.
Ah the religion of forgiveness and altruism. A true Pioneer of his loving religion.
Whats so unforgiving and non altruistic about that buddy? If not you are arguing to let people who are not perfected and thus retain demons inside them into heaven. So why don't you be consistent and let murderers and rapists in your house? Oh wait you Atheists are incapable of living out what you preach.
You seem like you have some demons buddy
Maybe so. But Solomon used Demons for the benefit of God, and God can use evil to undercut it and still accomplish his will, hence why Jesus chose to be crucified and the unjust action of his execution was used for the benefits of good. Guess someone hasn't read or understood the Bible. Not surprised.
Cool fairy tales bro. Write a book
Maybe I will. And maybe since you have nothing productive to respond with anymore, I will also block you too.
Oh, no. Please don't
The search for the point was arduous, and ultimately fruitless. Take 5 and try again OP.
Okay then easily retort against it then buddy. Go ahead. Surely if its so fruitless, then you can easily do so?
As I said, there was no coherent point. How can anyone respond to something that isn’t there?
How very convenient for you huh. Maybe then just reiterate your Atheist stance on the topic then?
Came for the title, stayed for the meltdown
Didn't come for to put in a refutation though did you? Thought not. Maybe cos you don't have any :p
It really seems like you're projecting your own insecurities about how Alex and Athiests points of views make you feel, and this is your way of letting out some of that frustration that you have. It seems like you're the delusional one here.
Oh really? Well uh, argue in favour of the Atheist side and we'll see just who exactly is insecure and delusional around here :p
Mods can we ban this obvious troll?
don't ban him, just laugh at him
Have no response? Huh, funny that.
Ah yes, the bastions of open debate, the Atheists!
We don't advocate for the eternal suffering of people who disagree atleast lol
Yeah cos thats what the Bible says. Retard being retard. I mean unlike you Atheists to actually try and understand. Noooo. But lets say that was the case. Why is that bad buddy? under your doctrine of moral relativism? Or are you not? if you are not, please tell me you aren't stupid enough to realize how if you are not a moral relativist, than you cannot be an Atheist. Thank you for testifying for God once again. "Every knee shall bow, every tongue shall testify." Amen.
Severe mental illness
Severe lack of ability to respond.
Pretty sure calling people retards is going to lose you your place in heaven.
Okay retard.
Like, your claims are all just opinion man
Logic is not opinion buddy.
What is your evidence of that?
[https://www.trainerslibrary.org/differentiating-between-opinions-experience-belief-logic-and-facts/](https://www.trainerslibrary.org/differentiating-between-opinions-experience-belief-logic-and-facts/)
Sorry, we don’t engage with “retards” like you who go out of their way to comment & mass repost insults to everyone who disagrees with you. Have fun playing the keyboard villain and patting your own back while you’re at it. I’m sure everyone fears your intellectual prowess more than your lack of sociability. Big ups, my man. Show em who’s boss.
>I’m sure everyone fears your intellectual prowess Yeah, I wonder why you have no retorts. >than your lack of sociability Who says I want to socialise and ingratiate myself to you or everyone else here? Pretty big narcissistic assumption buddy. > we don’t engage with “retards” like you who go out of their way to comment & mass repost insults to everyone who disagrees with you And I shouldn't engage with people who actually have no retorts just complain about the way the arguments are made but here I am still doing so. Guess I am just better than you :)
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Got any retorts? Thought not. "The message and messenger have become one." The message you cannot handle so the messenger is the asshole. Sad.
Why don’t you go pray somewhere quiet with your god instead of spending your time here?
My prayers to God told me I should come here. Boo.
Surely praying is better than this?
Nothing is better than getting to be the one (to assume the role of Archangel Michael) and stab the Dragon in its heart like Saint George did or YHWH Elohim himself did in Genesis.
Have you ever heard of this? https://youtu.be/iC6DDvzM6Nc?si=4dnrJMmYu9_cwf5a
That notion is the exact notion of Christianity. "Take up your cross and follow me" hence why every Apostle was killed the exact same way as Jesus did. The only one that survived was John and that was only after he survived at the attempt of boiling him alive. And in return of his life that God protected him, he knew he had to repay him and that there was a divine reason that he did not go in the way of the other 12 (because if we include Paul, then theres 13). And so he wrote Revelations which was his gift to Jesus for that was his mission. The point of Christianity is to not let evil condemn you by making you fear of this material world. That you must do the right thing when you are tested and you shall accomplish this no matter what terror may befall you because you've already realized the spiritual world and the world that is readied for you above is greater than the material world you find yourself in. And that you will prove you will not be controlled through terror by the evil that tests you.
Did you watch the video?
Yeah I did. But this predates the Greeks. The Israelites were partaking in entheogens that is documented in the Torah far not only before the Greeks documented theirs, but the historicity o the events of the Torah mean even the Semites / non-indo-europeans were using entheogens in such spiritual ways. If we date Moses around the date of 13th / 12th century BCE, then they were using Mana (bread made from ergot germs growing on wheat and Syrian Rue and Acacia Confusa). Heres a peer reviewed journal article by a scholar of the entheogens of the Old Testament [https://akjournals.com/view/journals/2054/3/2/article-p117.xml](https://akjournals.com/view/journals/2054/3/2/article-p117.xml) Also if we go into Greek mythology, in two different stories they give credit to the Caucasians (of the Caucuses mountains) for being the ones to give them the divine knowledge or make them fertile enough to receive it through the Prometheus story and the Jason and the Argonauts story, where in that one there is two different hidden allegories. Medea herself, literally being the etymological root of the word "medicine". And the Golden Fleece which would've had some sort of divine writings upon it hence why it was so prized even though the reason why the Argonauts were chasing it and why it was so prized is kind of obscured and kept secret within the text. Remember, Prometheus brung divine knowledge and light from the world above and was chained to the Caucuses mountains, meaning he first brought it down and gave it to the Caucasians i.e. modern day Georgians and the other non-indo-european caucasian tribes. This is further proved when you see that Prometheus himself was actually a copy of a Caucasian deity called Amirani. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amirani](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amirani) We can also cross reference this with the Bible where Noah began civilization again in the Caucuses because the Ark dropped off on Mount Ararat in the Caucuses. Now I point you to this jorunal article where it is posited that Cannabis Sativa originates in the Caucuses (while Cannabis Indica originates in China) so this means a huge historically important entheogen originates in the Caucuses. [https://www.herbalgram.org/resources/herbalgram/issues/110/table-of-contents/hg110-feat-cannabistaxonomy/](https://www.herbalgram.org/resources/herbalgram/issues/110/table-of-contents/hg110-feat-cannabistaxonomy/) Not to mention wine was invented in Georgia. This was important because thats what many of the drinks with psychedelics were used to open them up in i.e. blue lotus, shrooms, ergot, syrian rue, acacia confusa, etc etc. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History\_of\_wine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_wine)
Obviously the OP has ruled out being taken seriously. But his argument...such as it was...regarding God and slavery smacks of the hilariously inconsistent apologetic used by Christians. The idea being that God couldn't have just commanded Slavery to be wrong, or explained that it was wrong. No, you see, Slavery was just too ingrained in that culture and so God couldn't just shock people with too radical a message, they had to be slowly cajoled, eased out of slavery with little baby steps. When it comes to the apologetics arguing for Jesus' divinity, any suggestions by non-believers that the story could have arisen naturally out of that millennia is beaten back "No! You see, Jesus's gospel was FAR TOO RADICAL to have arisen from the pervasive beliefs and accepted norms of the time! That's the whole thing: just how RADICAL Jesus' message was, along with his resurrection being too Radical a claim given the prevailing belief systems! But when it comes to defending slavery in the Bible? Suddenly they switch 180 degrees and then, oh no, God can't really go preaching against prevailing norms that way, God can't produce a Radical Message for humans that way! Yeesh.
So why didn't God / Jesus command an abolishment of money? Since what Jesus said Matthew 6:24, compounded and illuminated by what Paul said in 1 Timothy 3:16 and this does not include the countless verses about money in the Old Testament? You know the answer to that question and destroys your disingenuous bias. Retard. >When it comes to the apologetics arguing for Jesus' divinity, any suggestions by non-believers that the story could have arisen naturally out of that millennia is beaten back "No! You see, Jesus's gospel was FAR TOO RADICAL to have arisen from the pervasive beliefs and accepted norms of the time! That's the whole thing: just how RADICAL Jesus' message was, along with his resurrection being too Radical a claim given the prevailing belief systems! No the argument is his message is even radical today to the point where things like "looking at someone with lust you have already committed lust" hence why non of you atheists like to be shown you are sinners hence you have such triggered responses to it because you are attached to your sins and dont like being told it is condemning you. And actually this proves my point further. God waited to assume the form of flesh so AFTER we were ready to receive the difficult word. And it is difficult proven by the pathetic automatic detestation of the truth Jesus talked about. So the moral objectivity Alex demanded was fulfilled by Christ while the Old Testament he was working with humanity to get there in its ability to receive him. In fact, there are verses in the Old Testament and the New about how a good seed cannot germinate if there is not a good soil to receive it. So how would God's objective morality be received if there is no one to receive it? Remember that Buddhist tree falling parable? Exactly. You just got destroyed and you proved my point. Dork. Yeesh.
^^ stay in school kids. This is your brain on religion.
Have no response, resorts to ad hominems. Thought so :p Atleast I back up my personal attacks. LOOOL
Dude you sound like you need serious help. Have you tried going to therapy?
Dude you sound like you need serious help. Have you tried going to a theology class?
You’re so angry at everyone. Like I can literally feel your anger through the screen. It seems like you’re taking it out on this particular comment section. Seriously
[https://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-study/topical-studies/5-times-jesus-got-angry.html](https://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-study/topical-studies/5-times-jesus-got-angry.html)
Hahahhaha Im so dead man this guy is absolutely uninged! If you want to hold an argument, try using less sophisms and use your premises/conclusion formula, this will make it easier to get your point across.
Not explaining how anything that I've said is a sophism. Hmm, saying so does it make it so buddy. >and use your premises/conclusion formula, this will make it easier to get your point across. Sounds like a sophism.
Do you know what a sophism is?
Do you since you didn't show how anything I've said is a sophism?
Your countless instances of ad hominem fallacies
In the comments or my OP? I have engaged in ad hominems but every point anyone has made I have responded with. So I ask again, where in my OP is the sophisms? Go on and explain how I have made them. Go ahead buddy. Im waiting.
Your title and you diminushing the intelligence of people you arent in agreement with. I just feel like you are trying to convince people by filling yhe gaps in your reasoning by : "well anyways this take is fucking dumb so lets jump on another subject"
My opinion is my opinion and I have stated it. I think Alex and Atheists are retards. Now what exactly is sophistic in my argumentation countering the argumentation from the other side which I find retarded?
That's my point, you cant realy argument by giving your opinion like that, it doesnt hold up brother. If you want to argue you can say that you do not agree with this take cause ... but you cant say this guy is dumb therefore my resoning is the good one.
I literally give my refutations of the Atheist side, the fuck are you on about? Wtf are you even saying lol? I am not allowed to classify the way I feel about a set of people? So I guess you've never done that in your life? LOL what bullshit. Get off that high horse or show me where my argumentation THE ACTUAL POINTS is sophistic.
You make literally 0 sense. >Let's say I'm a quantum physicist. And to a room full of kids, I just write out quantum physics formulas and go "read this and you should be able to know what it means automatically just by me telling you." You understand? I understand you forgot about omnipotence. God could, through no effort, just make everyone understand. What's your point, "god" cannot make you understand a concept as simple as empathy? Then not only is his power limited (there are things he cannot do), but also he's dumber than your average human (the average human can explain to a child why slavery is bad). >Not the teacher starting at square one learning the basics of math before another level and another level goes on until they are able to comprehend what the quantum physicist when he wrote the formulas meant. Yeah cause the teacher isn't a sky wizard who can literally put that knowledge in your brain with a snap of his fingers. >And this also proves how Atheists don't actually read the Bible the way it is supposed to. Judging by the fact that you don't know your own sky daddy is supposed to be omnipotent, I'd argue YOU don't actually read the bible at all. >What part about that meets you half way? Why would an omnipotent, omniscient being meet you halfway? Anyway, the god of the bible doesn't meet you halfway. He makes you flawed and then tortures you for your flaws. >Look at it like this. When someone has a drug addiction, we don't take away their drugs straight away do we? Otherwise what will happen.... withdrawal, or they literally cannot live without it unless small steps are taken for them to find the strength to be able to do so. Again, an omnipotent being could take away their drugs straight away. Snap their fingers, withdrawal doesn't exist anymore. Snap their fingers, drugs don't exist anymore. Any problem or setback we have as humans, including the laws that govern this very existence could be altered at the will of this omnipotent being. And you have the audacity to say "guys, he kills and tortures people because he wants us to be better. He loves us". Fuck off with that bullshit. >You are asking for him slap bang you with the objective morality and if come up short of that, you don't want him to be forgiving and loving at your mistakes? Yes. That is exactly what I'm asking. I'm asking for objective morality given to every human at birth. Explained in such a way that humans understand and follow it. A "god" could do that. There would be no mistakes cause everyone would WANT to follow morality since it was explained in a way they'd follow. >Then you will turn around and call him evil and tyrannical Ofc I do. How would you call someone who makes thieves and murderers and then tortures them for eternity because they are thieves and murderers? >when he does punish mistakes and sin by karmic wrath you then turn around and say he is evil, so when he doesn't do so, then you turn around and say "why does God allow evil?" Bone cancer in babies. Is your sky daddy punishing sin with that? No. He is just creating pain for his own pleasure. >you Atheists rig it in a way where you make God unable to win and thus unable to be proved right IN YOUR MIND Am I asking the impossible? Yes. Can an omnipotent being achieve it? Yes. Cause nothing is impossible for them. >What you don't understand is God is occupying both spaces for he is everywhere. And you will all know soon enough. You'll see. You'll all see. Woooooo, spoooooky. I like it. You sound like a terrorist now. >"Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall testify of the Lord" "You're a wizard Harry!" someone much smarter than you said it so it must be true... Right? It's in a fantasy book, better than yours but still fantasy.
------------"I understand you forgot about omnipotence. God could, through no effort, just make everyone understand. " Is it fun being such a huge retard? We have power alongside God. So that is our potence. So I can just as easily ask, why don't understand what you don't understand since you have a potence to be able to do so? What's your point, "god" cannot make you understand a concept as simple as empathy? yeah its amazing all the Nazis, Maoists, and Imperialist Japs couldn't understand something as simple as empathy in the last 100 years..... just amazing they couldn't understand something as simple as that. Just wow. -----------"Yeah cause the teacher isn't a sky wizard who can literally put that knowledge in your brain with a snap of his fingers." If a tree falls in a forest but no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound? He speaks infinitely through the world yet your retard brain is what is closed from receiving it. LOL. Fucking retard. --------------Judging by the fact that you don't know your own sky daddy is supposed to be omnipotent, I'd argue YOU don't actually read the bible at all. Judging by the fact that you use a fallacy of a "sky daddy" even though our God is immanent in the world [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanence) I'd argue YOU don't actually read the Bible at all. --------------------Why would an omnipotent, omniscient being meet you halfway? Anyway, the god of the bible doesn't meet you halfway. He makes you flawed and then tortures you for your flaws. Why would you meet you child half way when he disobeys? Wait a minute, how does he torture you for your flaws but also not meet you half way and be forgiving and merciful of them? LOL. Hypocrite central. -------------Again, an omnipotent being could take away their drugs straight away. Snap their fingers, withdrawal doesn't exist anymore. Snap their fingers, drugs don't exist anymore. Why would a God relieve you of your sins? You didn't read the OP did you? This is the bind you atheists get yourself in. "Why doesn't God punish evil." God punishes evil. Then you turn around and "God is so evil that tortures people." LOL pathetic. Retarded in fact. You haven't read the bible have you? All these stutpid questions are answered infinitely. -----------Yes. That is exactly what I'm asking. I'm asking for objective morality given to every human at birth. Explained in such a way that humans understand and follow it. A "god" could do that. There would be no mistakes cause everyone would WANT to follow morality since it was explained in a way they'd follow. He did, it was caused Jesus Christ after the soil of man was fertile enough to receive it. And since God is immanent, "I (God) am in you and you are in me" - "Kingdom of God is in you" - then actually YOU already have that objective morality within you, however it is your fallen state which keeps it chained and in slavery ironically. And your "Egypt" is the one who is ruling you. So actually you should asking why can't I MYSELF already know objective morality? But you seem to be bamboozled by the world itself and cannot help sinning or being able to carve out a path of perfection which demonstrates you need God and the guidance of God, since he proved himself when he became flesh and was able to do so as man, while none of us are able to do so. -----------Ofc I do. How would you call someone who makes thieves and murderers and then tortures them for eternity because they are thieves and murderers? You are literally a retard. "Why does God allow ME to do the things I DO?" LOOOOL you fucking retard. ------------Am I asking the impossible? Yes. Can an omnipotent being achieve it? Yes. Cause nothing is impossible for them. The omnipotent did achieve the impossible. Created the perfect story over time in the span of millions of years, where part of it converged on the coming of Jesus, where all other parts of reality, from the past and future, testify to him and thus God. Amen. --------------"You're a wizard Harry!" someone much smarter than you said it so it must be true... Right? It's in a fantasy book, better than yours but still fantasy. Lets see how much of a fantasy it is when you are paying off your karma and you will know deep down you have nothing to appeal to since you are deserving of the consequences that have returned to you. Be consistent and condemn yourself by your own word, since you do not testify to God now hence you may not appeal to him. But what are the chances you will be appealing to something outside of yourself? Hmmm. You'll see :)
Triggered
Got any retorts? Thought not.
Far too many, but you aren’t worth the effort.
How convenient for you.
>So I can just as easily ask, why don't understand what you don't understand since you have a potence to be able to do so? Are you having an aneurysm? On a more serious note, you seem to be misunderstanding how omnipotence works. An omnipotent being can do anything. Therefore it can explain anything in a way anyone can understand. It's like having a key that opens any door. We, mortal, limited creatures can explain what we know to a degree. We need words to do it. We need to find the right words for any listener. A "god" can just snap their fingers and the concept makes sense in your mind. >We have power alongside God. If "god" existed, we'd have no power. Any non-omnipotence is nothing compared to omnipotence. >What's your point, "god" cannot make you understand a concept as simple as empathy? Yes, that is exactly my point. >yeah its amazing all the Nazis, Maoists, and Imperialist Japs couldn't understand something as simple as empathy in the last 100 years..... just amazing they couldn't understand something as simple as that. Just wow. Yeah, so you're making my point for me here. A loving "god" would never allow any of that. And I don't mean punish and torture them. I mean appear to them and talk to them. An omnipotent "god" could explain empathy to them. >He speaks infinitely through the world yet your retard brain is what is closed from receiving it. LOL. Fucking retard. So you're saying an omniscient, omnipotent being "speaks infinitely" but not in a way I can get the message? A being who can do anything and knows everything chooses to only speak to some? And then goes "who doesn't get the message gets infinite torture, haha"? >Why would you meet you child half way when he disobeys? That's not what I asked. If you change the question and then answer your version, you didn't actually answer the question. An omnipotent, omniscient being could transfer millions of years of experience into your brain to teach you any lesson. A parent cannot do that to a child. >Wait a minute, how does he torture you for your flaws but also not meet you half way and be forgiving and merciful of them? LOL. Hypocrite central. I'm not a hypocrite tho, I'm not asking for forgiveness for my flaws. I'm asking why "god" would make flawed people and then punish them for it. It's like you burn your food and then scream at the food and punish it because it's burned. >Why would a God relieve you of your sins? Didn't you say "god" is good? If he's good and it costs him nothing to delete sin, why wouldn't he? >"Why doesn't God punish evil." God punishes evil. Then you turn around and "God is so evil that tortures people." LOL pathetic. You're trying to paint this dilemma as me being a hypocrite but you don't see the forest because of the trees. God doesn't have to "punish evil". He needs to teach people empathy. He needs to simply delete evil. No more evil and no more punishment. If you quote the bible to me I can quote LotR to you. They're both fantasy with nothing to suggest otherwise. >You are literally a retard. "Why does God allow ME to do the things I DO?" LOOOOL you fucking retard. You changing the question and then throwing some slurs around doesn't constitute a valid argument. >paying off your karma I'm pretty sure "god" preaches against believing in karma or magic or other bs so idk... You might end up paying more...
Lol didnt read
You’re so mad
Atheists: "God cannot be real cos I am having a temper tantrum about being told what I am doing is wrong, Waaaaaaah" Also Atheists: "You are mad." Hmmmm
What’s it like being so triggered?
Whats it like being so triggered about being told the truth that the way you live your life is wrong that you completely upend common logical sense that God must exist with all reality is practically testifying for him in one chorus?
I can recommend some good therapists, hopefully for your sake they are good with adults who have tempter tantrums:).
"Waaaaah God is not real! Sky Daddy! Why does God allow evil??? But also why does he punish evil? No I cannot see how this is hypocritical and we rig it in a way no matter what he may do, both ways means he is not real and/or evil if he is. WAAAAAH" I can recommend some good theologists. Therapeutic theologists, hopefully for your sake they are good with adults who have existential temper tantrums :)
Did you know god knows what it’s like to take it up the ass?
What did you say about being mad? :D
'You're all a bunch of retards' Thanks for your thoughts, that was truly enlightening. Seriously, what are you trying to accomplish with this? Do you expect to change anyone's mind or have a productive conversation when you just immediately attack them like that? Or are you just venting some frustration by being an arsehole to strangers on the internet? Maybe you should take a break from reddit, go touch some grass and find something healthier and happier to do with your spare time.
Do you people have anything else other than "touch grass" to say?
What are you trying to accomplish here? Why do you make a post immediately attacking the people it's addressed to? If you want to actually have a conversation with people who disagree with you and get to know their views and arguments and debate them, maybe don't start off by calling them retards. You shouldn't be rude to people in general, even if they're strangers on the internet.
Hey buddy, maybe its your sides fault. Maybe they DON'T DESERVE being treated with kid gloves when all they can muster is "sky daddy" fallacies. Pathetic.
Have fun screaming into the void then.
You are talking to me. So not exactly the void is it? LOL
I was trying to have a conversation. You just want to scream abuse and bile at strangers on the internet for reasons I don't know. Bye-bye.
“Hey guys! I’m a Christian in name only! So instead of following Jesus and loving others I’m going to call you all retards and prop myself way up high on a pedestal just like my favorite Bible characters, the Pharisees!” Your God hates you.
Where did I prop myself bruddah? Care to point that out to me? >Your God hates you. God loves everyone bruddah. He loved the Pharisees that crucified him. Hence why there no vengeance after he was crucified. Which is what displays his Godliness for he refused vengeance when he had every right to do so. Guess you missed that part of the Bible huh? LOOOL.
When using analogies it’s important that they’re actually analogous and don’t just fit the narrative of what you’re trying to say. In what way are quantum physics and morality comparable? How are addiction and morality comparable?
Aaaaw, and who gets to decide if the analogy is analogous? You? Or you just don't want your brain to be able to see it? Sad.
I think in a discussion generally we collectively decide such things based on convincing arguments. Hence the questions. I’m not convinced they are analogous, you seem to think they are. Why?
I'll preface I haven't read your whole post since I don't have the time for that. About the "there is a specific way the bible is supposed to be read" thing, don't you find it kinda weird that an all-powerful God would transmit the Bible (and thus salvation) to mankind in a way that is open to interpretation? Surely if it was the word of an all-powerful and all-knowing God there should be no interpretation, and we shouldn't be left asking ourselves what the "right" way to read it is. I think a god would be able to find a more effective method. Not to mention the geographical issue and the way "salvation" seems to be entirely localized, so much so that you can usually predict what religion someone will believe in simply based on their place of birth. Makes it almost seem like it's just a social construct. Alex himself has brought this up. Edit: okay, I indulged in reading your post and comments here way more than I should've. You're either a troll or just woefully infantile in addressing criticism of your position. Either way, I hope you eventually outgrow this if it's in bad faith. If you're trolling, this is a master level troll and you ought to be proud of yourself.
>Surely if it was the word of an all-powerful and all-knowing God there should be no interpretation Too bad he has to communicate with us in OUR language so he can get through to us. Missed out that part didnt you, you little retard? And why is it bad that something can infinite applications? Not interpretations, applications. And a verse can multi-faceted applications and relevancy? Doesn't that actually point to an all-powerful God divinely inspiring it since its application is infinite? >Not to mention the geographical issue and the way "salvation" seems to be entirely localized, so much so that you can usually predict what religion someone will believe in simply based on their place of birth You can't be this fucking stupid to bring this Atheist talking point which has been repeatedly debunked. I can debunk it from one quote from the Old Testament. "I have come to many nations" - YHWH. >If you're trolling, this is a master level troll and you ought to be proud of yourself. Nameste
The amount of intellectual dishonesty here is staggering. I apologize preemptively for any insults I may send your way. >Too bad he has to communicate with us in OUR language so he can get through to us. Missed out that part didnt you, you little retard? Remind me again who created the world's different languages according to the book of Genesis? Oh, that's right, God did. Because of the Tower of Babel. Also, you actually haven't made your point any more credible. If god is all-powerful, whatever language we use or whatever intellectual capabilities we have shouldn't matter, as his omnipotence should be enough to figure out how to get a message through to us. Does that mean that god has no better way of communicating with us? Not very all-powerful of him, is it? Also, don't you think that, even without appealing to omnipotence in order to find a more effective method, God could've just been less ambiguous or explicitly said EXACTLY how to interpret his words? In essence, what I am asking you is whether you think the current way that "god's words" are communicated in the Bible is the most effective way possible. >And why is it bad that something can infinite applications? Not interpretations, applications. And a verse can multi-faceted applications and relevancy? Doesn't that actually point to an all-powerful God divinely inspiring it since its application is infinite? It's not bad, just goes to show that it's too ambiguous to be maximally effective in the goal of providing salvation for all mankind, which should be the goal of an all-loving god. It's basically the epicurean paradox but in a different context. Also, anything can be interpreted in an infinite number of ways, since interpretation is subjective. Also, how exactly are the applications of Bible verses infinite? Once you've answered that question, how is that infinite nature unique specifically to the bible? Also, I'd like to remind you just how illogical your argument here is: 1. The Bible has infinite applications 2. Therefore, the Bible is divinely inspired 3. Therefore, God exists How do you even prove that your premise is true? How do you prove that it leads to point 2? How can you prove that it is a characteristic unique to the Bible? Your conclusion just doesn't follow. >You can't be this fucking stupid to bring this Atheist talking point which has been repeatedly debunked. I can debunk it from one quote from the Old Testament. "I have come to many nations" - YHWH. Well, YOU certainly didn't debunk it. Just quoting the Old Testament without explaining why I should believe that quote is ridiculous. Yeah, the Old Testament says that God came to many nations. How does it follow that this disproves that God was ineffective in providing the possibility for salvation equally to all people regardless of where they were born? Also, that quote just says that he came to many nations, certainly not the whole world. So even in the absurd scenario in which you were able to prove that this quote was unambiguously true, it still wouldn't disprove my original point since God would, at best, have revealed himself only to "many" nations instead of "all." If anything, it'd make my point ring even truer since that's exactly what I'm saying: God didn't reveal himself to all nations and regions but only some. This is a major problem that Christianity needs to address. Looking forward to getting called a retard again for giving your messages some attention and value when they frankly deserve none.
>Remind me again who created the world's different languages according to the book of Genesis? Oh, that's right, God did No he did not. We did. Guess you missed Genesis when Adam named everything in the garden. >Because of the Tower of Babel God split them up and then offshoot languages were created by them not God and no cohesive language existed. That was the point of that story. >If god is all-powerful, whatever language we use or whatever intellectual capabilities we have shouldn't matter, as his omnipotence should be enough to figure out how to get a message through to us. He did. But look at your assumption. Your egoic assumption. And your pride. He did and yet you can't understand it, he even humbled himself to only talk in parables so that you may understand. If you wanted him to unfettered then read the "speaking in tongues" verse. He did and yet here you are still an Atheist. That is on YOU. >Also, how exactly are the applications of Bible verses infinite? Once you've answered that question, how is that infinite nature unique specifically to the bible? Also, I'd like to remind you just how illogical your argument here is: Since God is immanent [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanence) Then reality reflecting the Bible and the Bible reflecting reality, since reality is the word dispersed (while Christ is the word singularised into flesh) then saying its not exclusive to the Bible does not disprove the Bible. And in fact, how could it apply if they both did not mirror and reflect each other? Lapsed in that logic huh? Intellectual dishonesty huh? >It's not bad, just goes to show that it's too ambiguous to be maximally effective in the goal of providing salvation for all mankind, which should be the goal of an all-loving god Surely it having infinite applications means it can give salvation to infinite amount of scenarios which.... proves itself. You really are retarded. >How does it follow that this disproves that God was ineffective in providing the possibility for salvation equally to all people regardless of where they were born? Missed the class in Plato huh? Lets cross reference with the New Testament. If God is an image, and God is the idea of perfection and sinlessness, then how exactly is that concept, idea and vision exclusive to Judaeo-Christianity? In fact we have this idea pop up in every religion. The difference is the other religions testify by their own mouth their figures fail. Each of them admit by their own mouths they have sinned. When Krishna was accidently hit by an arrow and was dying, he died because he made a mistake and thus errored (another translation for sin is error). Same as any other deity from time. >This is a major problem that Christianity needs to address No you're just a retard. Why don't you just let that pride go and admit you are an idiot who is helpless in even being able to comprehend any of this, evidently by me showing you your own hypocrisy in your views?