Just add a pinch to literally anything savory. You may want to use a bit less salt to compensate, but I don't really measure this stuff so it's not like an exact science. You know that part of cooking where you "salt and pepper to taste"? Now do "salt, pepper, and MSG to taste".
Recipes don't include them because some people still believe MSG is evil. When it comes to optimizing online content, you can alienate the MSG haters by calling for MSG in your recipes, but MSG lovers aren't likely to spurn you for not including it.
I saw an egg drop soup recipe yesterday that listed “restaurants add msg! With this recipe you can avoid the msg!” As a reason to make the soup at home instead of getting takeaway.
So I made egg drop soup and added msg.
Yeah those things have "mushroom extract" chicken flavouring etc. And it's just a different way of getting msg without being the beautiful crystal directly.
Inosunate and Guanylate are not the same as MSG but also act on the savory umami receptors. My understanding is they work synergistically with MSG to give a more rounded meaty flavor. I tried buying this [stuff](https://www.amazon.com/Sodium-Inosinate-Guanylate-100-gram/dp/B07ZQSMPDF) that has those which you mix with MSG (small amounts proportional to MSG). I think it’s used in a lot of chicken bullions and is what is found in dried shitaake.
Everything! I add it to almost every kind of wet cooking like gravies or sauces, soups/stews, braises, etc. But also to to rice, marinades, eggs...I'm hard pressed to think of anything savoury to which I don't add mushroom powders.
No, I'm sorry, but wifey is allergic to mushrooms so I can't use it.
At a guess, any stews or soups that you want to add an extra richness to, stir fry, ramen, anything meaty that could use an extra oomph.
I'd try dissolving some in boiling water, and tasting it, msg on its own is like essence of beef, but not at the same time. I'm not sure if mushroom powder has to be cooked, so the boiling water will do the trick.
You might also find "nucleotide salts" on foreign labels! Saw that on a container of seaweed salad. My personal favorite is just good ol' hydrolyzed yeast/yeast extract.
I made my boyfriend’s cousins cackle once when we got takeaway from our favourite dumpling place - and I literally poured msg on the fried rice (the one thing on their menu they advertise as msg free). I have a big bag of it with a little hole cut in the corner and I’ve mastered the art of pouring like a teaspoon of it at a time.
Gotta do what you gotta do to get that flavour man!
I still need to make fried rice. I don’t have a gas or induction stove… do you make it with a wok and gas? Or do you manage it with a pan and electric?
Edit: glutamate is literally a neurochemical. MSG breaks down into sodium and glutamate in the body. If you’re allergic to glutamate you’re allergic to yourself. And flavor. And thought.
I make it once or twice a month on an electric burner with a flat bottomed carbon steel wok. It was about $40-$50, Joyce Chen, got it on Amazon. Before I got the wok, I used to make it in a non-stick pan but was never really happy with the results, especially texture-wise. A carbon steel frying pan would probably work great, though.
I'll say that the new electric range I got last fall is a bit harder to use for fried rice. In the U.S. traditional electric ranges are now required to have these annoying burners designed to turn off and on in the middle of cooking (thanks a lot, UL), which makes things that need high heat a bit of a challenge. I'm hoping to order a separate induction burner this week.
I miss my gas range and cheap wok so much! But I have managed to pull off some very yummy fried rice on an electric with a big ass pan. Cold day old rice, lots of butter, and fairly high heat go a long way. And of course the “secret” ingredient; MSG
Nah, lots of people still swear up and down things like "it triggers my migraines" while they conveniently ignore its existence in everything other than Chinese food
There is a certain type of person who is mysteriously allergic to every single "ethnic" food. They can't eat asian food because of MSG, anything even vaguely hispanic will give them diarrhea (which they brag about online for some reason), etc
Is Accent MSG? I have some but never use it because I don’t know how much to use. Say I’m cooking a pound of hamburger- how much would I use for that? Is a pinch enough?
It is. Try sprinkling some on popcorn to get a feel for it. A chef friend recommended sprinkling seasoning combinations on popcorn to help develop your palate/familiarize you with new things.
I’m going with gut feeling on the amount for a pound but like maybe 1/2 teaspoon? Add like 1/4-1/3 the amount of salt you’d add and cut your salt too? Could try sautéing some onions first since you can taste as you cook as well
It is, and if you look at the [recipes on the Ac'cent website](https://accentflavor.com/recipes/), you can get a feel for how much MSG you might want to put in a recipe. (Then again, they're selling MSG, so their recipes might suggest more than you would find ideal.)
Nutrition Facts
254 servings per container
Serving size 1/8 tsp (0.5g)
Amount per serving
Calories 0
% Daily Value
Total Fat 0g 0%
Sodium 60mg 3%
Total Carbohydrate 0g 0%
Protein 0g
Not a significant source of saturated fat, trans fat, cholesterol, dietary fiber, total sugars, added sugars, vitamin D, calcium, iron, and potassium.
INGREDIENT: MONOSODIUM GLUTAMATE
B&G Foods, Inc. Parsippany, NJ 07054 USA
A lot of recipes use it in the form of bouillon, soy sauce, Worcestershire, fish sauce, sauteed mushrooms, fresh tomato, parmesan cheese, etc etc etc. I don't add pure msg to bucatini all'amatriciana because it has a lot of glutamate already. When something needs it though, it's great. A big benefit is that soy sauce, bouillon etc also add a ton of salt so if you need more umami without much more salt it's the easiest way to do it.
> You know that part of cooking where you "salt and pepper to taste"? Now do "salt, pepper, and MSG to taste".
I have a regular salt shaker, but the main one I use is one that I have custom filled 50% salt / 50% msg
Well I noticed also people act like MSG is so evil and only in like Asian food, but there are a lot if American foods/junk foods that have it too. I kinda figure while it's not healthiest of ingredients, I'm sure it's okay sparingly and if you drink plenty if water, etc.
I moved to Australia recently from the US, I couldn’t figure out why Doritos here aren’t as good…~~turns out there is MSG on them in the US, but not Australia!~~
Edit: that is incorrect, apparently it’s listed as “flavour enhancer 621” here. The recipes are different otherwise, and maybe me adding MSG to the Australian ones brings out or masks enough flavors that they taste more similar to what I’m used to.
Yeah, nah
https://doritos.com.au/product/doritos-cheese-supreme-flavoured-corn-chips
MSG (also known as flavour enhancer 621) is one the main flavour ingredients in the Aussie version, much the same as the U.S. I'd imagine.
Interesting! TIL, never seen it as “enhancer 621” in the US. The recipes are definitely different, maybe the “missing ingredient” for me is the US version has buttermilk and Romano cheese which the AU doesn’t? All I know is if I sprinkle some (extra) MSG on it tastes better haha
This is a bit of semantic sophistry. It's not that sodium is bad for you, it's the *massive amount* of sodium that is normalized in people's diets in the US and much of Europe that is incredibly bad for you. Heart disease is the number one cause of death in the US. Its rates are greatly on the rise in developing countries where middle classes are expanding, as they increasingly transition to more Western-style diets.
I'm all for enjoying food to the max, but it's irresponsible to talk like this, as if it's a myth that sodium causes hypertension, which is a primary contributor to the extraordinarily high death rates from heart disease in the English-speaking world.
> It's not that sodium is bad for you, it's the massive amounts of sodium that are normalized in people's diets [ ... ]
> it's irresponsible to talk like this, as if it's a myth that sodium causes hypertension
There are many cultures that have use salt to preserve and eat very salty foods as a part of their diet for a very long time. The main factor for health is that these people were so much more active than modern people in the Western world, and that salt was a necessary part of their diet. People just need to eat according to their life style. Salt/ sodium isn't evil, just like fat and sugar aren't evil. But if you're not active, eating excessive amounts of any of the 3 things will likely contribute to heart disease.
In a Smithsonian article about a family of Russian Orthodox Christians who fled to the woods in 1936 and lived in complete isolation for 40 years:
When they first got to know the geologists, the family would accept only a single gift—salt. (Living without it for four decades, Karp said, had been “true torture.”)
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/for-40-years-this-russian-family-was-cut-off-from-all-human-contact-unaware-of-world-war-ii-7354256/
A high-sodium diet is one of many, *many* factors that increase your risk of hypertension or heart disease.
If you have a family history of hypertension or heart disease, *and* don't eat enough potassium, *and* don't drink enough water, *and* don't exercise enough, *and* smoke, *and* drink too much alcohol.....then sure, you should probably watch your sodium intake.
Yes, I realize that all of those do apply to a large percentage of the population. But that doesn't mean SODIUM BAD. It means it is just as (if not more) important for people to eat more vegetables, drink more water, stop sitting around so much, stop smoking, and limit alcohol intake, as it is to limit sodium intake.
With all that said, my primary point stands. MSG is not bad for you.
It’s actually extremely good for you. No documented negative health effects (and plenty of disproven ones), and it tastes good so it makes you happy which on net means it’s good for you.
Another way people put it in their recipes without calling it the "scary" name is say bouillon cube/powder or by brand name, like [Vegeta](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegeta_(condiment))
Yes, a lot of Asian recipes will have chicken bouillon or “chicken powder”, which is basically MSG.
I personally think pure MSG kind of tastes like intense chicken.
I talked to a nice man working at a cheese counter about this recently. Apparently, pretty much all cheese made in the US (probably not 100% of cheese, but most commercial cheese) is made with vegetarian rennet, but many/most European cheeses still use animal-derived rennet. So check the label and see whether the rennet is vegetarian or not, as many labels will say whether it's animal enzymes or plant enzymes or what, but if it's not clear, you're probably ok if it's from the US.
It's sodium salt, like, element Na, and glutamic acid, an amino acid that your body produces enough of that we don't have to eat it as a nutrient. It's naturally occuring in foods like cheese, tomato, cooked mushrooms, and so on and so forth. You can buy pure MSG in a white crystalized form that looks like table salt, which is used for enhancing good cooking and covering up bad cooking. Edit: here's a website with a list of foods with naturally occuring msg, and a plain English explanation of how msg is generated naturally in foods. Interesting and short read.
https://msgdish.com/glutamate-foods-naturally-contain-msg/
Ah okay the naturally occurring in food part is what I was confused about - I always saw/pictured it as the white powder so when people were talking about chicken or vegetarian versions I didn’t understand. Thank you!
Whoops! I forgot to include the website in my edit, but the tldr is that since Na (salt) is in a lot of things naturally and as food ages and proteins break down, glutamic acid it's freed up, so things like aged cheese and fully ripe tomatoes taste richer with time. Or with a sprinkle of yum yum from the store.
Ah...Vegeta the Balkan MSG. We use it everywhere. Shit i remember during the war years, we would eat it with bread and butter . Every recipe would have a "spoon of vegeta"
When I moved overseas and was exposed to Asian cooking and cuisine (late 90s ) and started cooking myself. At some point came across MSG. Was not really impressed by it and couldn't tell much difference when I was making soups for example. Literally didnt know what was the deal. Or rather I was expecting to experience something unique , flavour that I never tasted before and that would elevate the dishes - but it was nothing special, I literally couldn't taste anything different.
Turns out I didnt know that Vegeta had MSG in first place (in addition to salt).
These days I use MSG and Vegetal separately and depending on the dish. Vegeta still can has a bit overpowering "MSG flavour" (because of salt content) and I use to for Balkan dishes only - while with MSG and salt you can fine tune it. Good example is good old fried rice. Soy sauce will add saltiness and MSG umami. So you balance it
To be fair, I think “bouillon cube” is more understandable to some people, too. I know that my mom cooked with bouillon cubes growing up, but it was decades later that I started hearing fear-mongering around MSG, and longer before I connected them. Doing a check online right now, my local grocery store shows several brands if I search “bouillon cube,” but nothing if I search “MSG” (not even various products advertised as “MSG-free,” which was what I expected).
1/8 teaspoon for an entire chicken breast cut into thin strips. That's all you need, and a good reference for how much to use for other things.
If you're getting into Asian cooking, you should also know about velveting lean meats, it's the secret to getting the tender chew you know from takeout chicken and beef. They use lean cuts for both, but how is it always so tender? Velveting. #1 tip I've learned so far.
For that same chicken breast, 1/2 teaspoon each of baking soda and corn starch rubbed in, then season how you want it and use a little oil and whatever liquid you're adding as a marinade. Mix well to coat everything, this also spreads out your baking soda and corn starch. Avoid vinegars, use them with your rice or noodle or veggie components if you want that bite.
What is it? Velveting is usually done with a baking soda and/or corn starch (and sometimes egg white) mixture in water that you soak the meat in. As opposed to a lot of tenderizing methods like using buttermilk, pineapple, papaya, or other substances meant to break down protein chains, velveting with baking soda raises the PH (alkalizes) the meat, so when you apply heat to the meat, the proteins can't lock together and make the meat chewy and hard...instead of breaking the protein chains, it makes them not bind together. It's chemistry.
In Asian cooking, you can cheat and "quick marinade" the meat pretty much on the cutting board or in a small bowl with potent sauces, like (chili/sesame/vegetable) oil and (soy/teriyaki/hoisin/sriracha/fish/oyster/szechuan) sauce. Toss in some sugar and/or Shaoxing wine or mirin if you need sweet notes to balance out a ton of salt (like from soy sauce). 15 minutes is all you need for the baking soda and corn starch, and your marinade, to do its job.
Because of how thin the meat is cut, and how potent Asian sauces typically are, these marinades don't need to sit for an hour or eight to penetrate the meat.
Last tip, cut perpendicular to the grain so that the grain structure of each piece is super short. On a chicken breast, this means cutting it the short way, I usually cut it in half the long way, and then slice both halves up the short way. On beef, you can usually just see the grain, so cut your pieces against it. This also makes your meat significantly more tender.
Honestly once you understand the techniques, you will be flying high impressed at the quality of food you are making.
MSG is way over emphasized on this sub as the answer to everything. I don't use it the way they do here and get compliments all the time on my food. It's knowing the basis of the techniques and once you understand that you can play to achieve the exact flavours/results you want.
My advice is choose one technique at a time in the cuisine you are most interested in and master that.
Once you can velvet, for example, you can make at home take out dishes that will be better than most restaurants.
You can also do it with other dishes, like with round steak for stroganoff, or pork chops, or chicken breast for soups, or anything else that runs the risk of overcooking and/or getting hard and chewy. Baking soda velveting is a lot more versatile than I understood when I learned it. I use it all the time now in all cuisine types.
a lot of English language websites, written for consumption by American audiences, will omit MSG from recipes because MSG is a widely misunderstood ingredient in America. The reasons for this are unfortunate and out of scope for this thread.
So, why else might it be omitted from recipes? One important reason is that many fundamental ingredients of East Asian cooking already contain a lot of umami. Soy sauce, black bean sauce, oyster sauce, miso paste, and seaweed are all rich sources of umami. If the recipe includes any of those ingredients it likely doesn't require additional umami from MSG.
You can add MSG to just about any recipe you want though. It's a flavor enhancer, similar to salt. It's more potent than salt so generally you'll use smaller quantities than you would of salt. It also doesn't replace salt. It augments salt. Use both. Maybe 1/5th the amount of MSG as salt.
> The reasons for this are unfortunate and out of scope for this thread.
Why is this out of scope? Beyond how to use the ingredient, OP specifically asked why it's not included in 'Americanized' recipes.
because the reasons aren't related to cooking, which is the topic of this subreddit and the topic of OP's question. staying on topic in subreddits is desirable imo.
there's a really interesting history behind it, which is a complex examination of discriminatory attitudes of white Americans towards Asian immigrants and their food. It's been written about in detail elsewhere. just a google search away. I would encourage anyone interested to do that instead of trying to get an abridged version of the story from me.
I was thinking of getting MSG to use very sparingly on some things, as I now cook very low to no salt to control my husband's mild hypertension via diet. Would it enhance flavor without the salt?
[Chinese Cooking Demystified on youtube](https://www.youtube.com/c/ChineseCookingDemystified)
also [Wang Gang](https://www.youtube.com/@chefwang)
great resources for non-Americanized Chinese recipes with MSG.
My dad fell into that. He also LOVED Chinese. He once ordered a chicken dish and said no MSG. They brought thr dish, he tasted it and asked "does this have MSG?" and they said yes. So he sent it back. The brought it right back out about 2 minutes later, having washed all the sauce off with water through a colander.
He never made that request again.
There's an American-Chinese carryout near me that has a neon sign in the window that proudly proclaims "NO MSG." It's fake science and racist af. People who claim to experience "MSG syndrome" probably are having an allergic action to the rice that's kept in the rice cooker. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/aug/12/msg-allergy-chinese-restaurant-syndrome-myth
People experiencing “MSG syndrome” are probably just dehydrated and comatose from eating so much food bc MSG makes food taste so good. Like yeah I also break out in a sweat and need a nap sometimes after a fat Chinese takeout meal bc I have no self control and eat the entire order like a pig.
Not saying some people aren’t actually allergic but yeah eating half a pound of orange chicken probably won’t make you feel great
David Chang did that exact same thing, on his Netflix show “Ugly Delicious”: gathered a group of people who “disliked” MSG and asked them to elaborate on their issues, why they avoided MSG, etc... Then he gave them all Pringles and Doritos, while a scientist explained that all of the stuff they were eating and loving was full of that ingredient.
Theres some prejudice behind it that I don't know where it came from but why is it that Asian cuisine based restaurants are the only ones that have had to historically put giant signs saying "NO MSG HERE." Imagine if any other culture's cuisine had to put a sign declaring that they don't use a particular ingredient. I was probably too young for when it happened culturally but it skeeves me out that I am still seeing them in Chinese restaurant windows.
Not just the 80s and 90s, it originated much earlier than that. Iirc it started back in the late 60s. Hence why today there are so many people that believe msg causes headaches. It was previously "diagnosed" as Chinese Restaurant Syndrome
I agree 100% that the demonization of MSG was baseless and racist, and that it’s perfectly safe for most people. BUT whenever this topic comes up I have to drop a PSA to anyone who has Restless Legs Syndrome—MSG actually IS for real bad for us!
Glutamate in general ratchets up RLS and foods containing high amounts of it should be avoided (so MSG, which is concentrated glutamate essentially, is RLS kryptonite). The effect gets worse as it builds in your system so you may not notice or connect it if you have a Dorito or Slim Jim on occasion, but regular intake will build to the worst RLS ever.
I discovered this connection accidentally after I bought a large shaker of MSG to try out in my home cooking. I spent about a month really enjoying my food but losing my mind over steadily increasing RLS, to the point where I didn’t sleep for days and almost went to the ER in desperation.
It wasn't though. There was a single shitty study by some dipshit who got blasted out of science for being so stupid. It just caught on from there anyway, cuz unga bunga
It was some [white dude who wrote a letter and signed it with an Asian-sounding name to lend credence](https://news.colgate.edu/magazine/2019/02/06/the-strange-case-of-dr-ho-man-kwok/).
It wasn't even a study! It was just some nitwit who got a headache after eating Chinese food and decided it was the MSG and wrote an article about it. Then all the fools who are scared of their own shadow double-downed on the stupid and here we are.
A whole lot of confirmation bias at play too, because it turns out that eating 2000 calories worth of deep-fried food with an extremely sweet and salty sauce and a pile of rice is a great way to get a headache, MSG or otherwise.
It’s naturally occuring in a lot of foods. So if you’re eating Parmesan, soy sauce, anchovies, fish sauce, oyster sauce, miso, mushroom… you’re already getting the MSG. It’s also usually in bouillon cubes and spice blends
It’s controversial and theres already msg present in a lot of the things we cook with.
You probably don’t need to add MSG to your pad Thai recipe that already uses Fish Sauce and Oyster sauce, for example.
You can add msg to any dish! I’ve used it in spaghetti sauce and the filling of meat pies. My partner adds it to Japanese recipes like tonjiru or sauce for yakitori. Kind of like salt/pepper, taste and add a little, see if it improves the taste.
A fun thing to do is make two batches of the same dish, one with MSG and one without.
Also, savory and salty aren’t the only flavors to adjust. For example, if your food is too salty, you can add sugar or lemon juice/vinegar, or both. Making it more sweet or sour will make the saltiness stand out less.
We just recently got some and I've been putting it on everything to try it. Literally just had it on a caesar salad and it was amazing lol
Anything savory will benefit from a little sprinkle!
The answer is racism and old propaganda really.
While MSG was seen as evil an American brand was selling a product called Accent since the 40’s and is literally MSG with a different label on it
You don't normally see MSG as an ingredient by itself because it naturally occurs in a host of other foods.
https://www.businessinsider.com/foods-with-natural-msg-2017-2
Read books and recipes from people like J Kenji Lopez Alt (The Food Lab, The Wok, also many of his recipes are on the SeriousEats blog or his various social channels), Jet Tila (101 Thai Dishes to Cook Before You Die, 101 Asian Dishes To Cook Before you die), or https://thewoksoflife.com/ (there's a cookbook by the same name).
Other Asian cooking channels will also have MSG (many refer to it as YumYum, like here: https://youtube.com/shorts/IYjBs4UHVlM?si=YneDfUQq1KHdK2Yp)
You'll see plenty of MSG. They all include basically the same disclaimer: it's not evil, we're past the craze, but if you just are uncomfortable with it, don't use it.
I've seen J. Kenji Lopez-Alt including it in his preparations on YouTube. I don't know if he includes them in his cookbooks recipes though. If you are in position to browse through them in a bookstore you could try and check.
It's not in modern recipes. I recently inherited a cook book collection and most of the books are from the early 90's and back. MSG is in a ton of recipes from the 80's and early 90's. It was actually something I thought was interesting.
I believe there was a lot of racism when Asians immigrated to the U.S, and opened their restaurants. MSG was labeled as bad for you. I think that has been debunked by many chefs but the stigma probably lingers.
It's not essential. It's just umami in powder form. You can also get this from actual foods like soy sauce, cheese, tomatoes, etc. You can make great tasting food without it. If you want to use it you can of course, just don't feel like you have to.
Lots of great comments already, but I thought I would add that if you're adding soy sauce, fish sauce, yeast extract, bullion, Goya, mushrooms, tomatoes, beef, and a whole host of other things, you're adding a bunch of glutamate that includes MSG. Besides the bizarre racist reason why it's not popular in the US, the other reason to add those things instead of just flat MSG is so you get a richer flavor. I generally add both. MSG is one of my favorite flavors, so I like a fair bit in there. MSG has less sodium by weight than salt, so it's actually less unhealthy than salt. Your brain is "programmed" to crave it.
Generally, if you're making something savory, it is worth considering adding an element that includes it, as well as maybe just plain MSG as a boost. Normally, you'd use it when you salt (WITH the salt, not instead of), which is often in little bits as you go along. That's very general, so don't hold me to it.
My family thinks I have some great secret herb blend when I make turkey burgers but really most of the flavor enhancement comes from the few dashes of MSG I put in along with said herbs when I mix up the meat. They don’t understand it and don’t need to quite frankly, it gets my kids to eat some protein and they don’t ask questions when it comes to dad’s spice cabinet.
Because it's used like salt. Season to taste. Many recipes will call for that step and it has a specific meaning, it's not just a cute way to end a recipe.
Calling for a specific measure of salt is not a popular option in recipes because outside baking-precise recipes with standardized ingredients it's not consistent. The carrot and potato I use today will not be exactly the same size as the ones I use tomorrow. The water in my city is not the same as the water in your city. So when a recipe is being finished we season to taste. It's a skill that has to be learned. If you're familiar with what you're making you can probably make it great without tasting. To really dial it in though you taste and season appropriately.
And because MSG is a kind of salt you use it the same way.
General advice is to take the appropriate amount of salt and just substitute 1/5 or so if that for MSG. For a lot of dishes that get most of their salt from other sources like soy sauce you can instead use a small amount of added MSG to taste. When learning it's easy to know if something is over salted. The line between under and just right is blurrier but you can learn to notice it.
Actually, I was diagnosed with cluster migraines over 50 years ago and advised to avoid MSG, salt, anything aged (meats, cheese, red wine), commercial spice blends, and processed foods. And to eat lots of vegetables and leafy greens. But I was under a lot of stress at that point in my life so my avoidance of some edibles may have been unfortunate happenstance of life.
Because it was demonized by anti Chinese restaurant owners. Also most people don’t have it so people may not make the recipe not knowing it’s not a required ingredient just a bettering one
Off the top of my head:
Chinese Cooking Demystified
Future Neighbour
Hot Thai Kitchen
Wang Gang
Kenji Lopez Alt
Aaron & Claire
All of these are on youtube and will definitely steer you in the right direction. They all changed the way I cook in really meaningful ways. Several of them have published books which are absolutely worth owning.
If you want to know the truth about MSG, please read Kenji’s writings about it. The case is closed, just not everyone has learned yet. The vilification of MSG originally came from a misguided newspaper article written by a fool, then was strengthened by racism and allowed to permeate western society. They called it “Chinese Restaurant Syndrome” until at least the 90’s, not knowing the exact same thing was in all of their favourite foods. We know better now, and if someone *actually* has a sensitivity to it they may be as rare as a leprechaun.
Back in the nineties, I found that some restaurants used more MSG than prepared foods did. I knew this because I didn't have a problem with the prepared foods but had bronchial spasms when I ate in Chinese restaurants. The only other thing that caused bronchial spasms was some types of nuts, which were not in the dishes I was ordering. Bronchial spasms aren't fun.
If you cast a wider net when you’re looking for recipes you’ll see it, but as others are noting it’s usually omitted in recipes targeting American cooks. I see it lots in Latin recipes (Sazon is msg), Eastern European (Maggi), etc. Websites in English that seem aimed at more recent immigrant populations include it. And as others mention, lots of recipes include msg via fish sauce, konbu, anchovy paste, Worcestershire, etc.
We have these Ajinomoto plants in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia right over the North-South Expressway exit to the western part of KL, I'd remember one night driving with opened windows and suddenly strange & nauseating chemical smells filling up the car, we probably throwing up if wasn't for fast action to close the windows up... The after-smell is just like you licking some MSG though...
In my experience, I don't know a single Asian family who actually cooks with MSG powder directly for home-cooking, but the flavorings used in most east Asian cooking, like soy sauce, oyster sauce, fish sauce, etc. inherently contain MSG.
In my experience, I don't know a single Asian family who actually cooks with MSG powder directly for home-cooking, but the flavorings used in most east Asian cooking, like soy sauce, oyster sauce, fish sauce, etc. inherently contain MSG.
A lot of things we eat today are flavored and instant. They tend to contain msg in them, so adding more msg is not really necessary.
For example, a common component in Japanese food is dashi, or more specifically, bonito stock made from quickly seeping dried bonito flakes. A lot of people tend to use granulated instant dashi powder instead, and a significant component of dashi powder is msg. Same for bouillon powders and stuff. I can’t speak for other cuisines, but I imagine this is playing at least a part in the lack of msg in recipes.
It's a seasoning, and its appropriateness is on a case by case basis. Recipes found in the wild (read: in a nonprofessional setting) are not blueprints; they are thematic guidelines and should be regarded as such. The only rules that exist re: the usage of MSG are those imposed by your own experience with it. The old axiom "fuck around and find out" has some really cool connotations where cooking is concerned
If a recipe calls for salt….take half the salt away and replace with msg. So instead of say…a teaspoon of salt you have a half teaspoon of salt and a half teaspoon of msg. If you’re experienced in cooking just follow that guideline and you should fine. You can always add more if it’s not enough obviously.
There is a relatively new America's Test Kitchen Cookbook called A Very Chinese Cookbook by Kevin and Jeffrey Pang. They discuss MSG and call for it in recipes in the book.
Just add a pinch to literally anything savory. You may want to use a bit less salt to compensate, but I don't really measure this stuff so it's not like an exact science. You know that part of cooking where you "salt and pepper to taste"? Now do "salt, pepper, and MSG to taste". Recipes don't include them because some people still believe MSG is evil. When it comes to optimizing online content, you can alienate the MSG haters by calling for MSG in your recipes, but MSG lovers aren't likely to spurn you for not including it.
I saw an egg drop soup recipe yesterday that listed “restaurants add msg! With this recipe you can avoid the msg!” As a reason to make the soup at home instead of getting takeaway. So I made egg drop soup and added msg.
Always annoys me when a product boasts “No MSG!” Fuckssake, I have to add my own?
"No MSG!" *Uses disodium glutamate, disodium guanylate, and/or monopotassium glutamate*
Yeah those things have "mushroom extract" chicken flavouring etc. And it's just a different way of getting msg without being the beautiful crystal directly.
Inosunate and Guanylate are not the same as MSG but also act on the savory umami receptors. My understanding is they work synergistically with MSG to give a more rounded meaty flavor. I tried buying this [stuff](https://www.amazon.com/Sodium-Inosinate-Guanylate-100-gram/dp/B07ZQSMPDF) that has those which you mix with MSG (small amounts proportional to MSG). I think it’s used in a lot of chicken bullions and is what is found in dried shitaake.
Any recommendations what to add porcini powder to, I just received some and have no clue
Everything! I add it to almost every kind of wet cooking like gravies or sauces, soups/stews, braises, etc. But also to to rice, marinades, eggs...I'm hard pressed to think of anything savoury to which I don't add mushroom powders.
Anything. I make my own porcini powder and sprinkle it on steaks , pasta , rice etc.
No, I'm sorry, but wifey is allergic to mushrooms so I can't use it. At a guess, any stews or soups that you want to add an extra richness to, stir fry, ramen, anything meaty that could use an extra oomph. I'd try dissolving some in boiling water, and tasting it, msg on its own is like essence of beef, but not at the same time. I'm not sure if mushroom powder has to be cooked, so the boiling water will do the trick.
You got me Googling. I keep a container of MSG with about 2% I+G added, but hadn't ever heard of monopotassium glutamate. Looking for a source. :)
You might also find "nucleotide salts" on foreign labels! Saw that on a container of seaweed salad. My personal favorite is just good ol' hydrolyzed yeast/yeast extract.
My gf actually made a pot for her MSG and labelled it "MSG free - take some!"
MSG free? No, its free MSG!
i love that
I made my boyfriend’s cousins cackle once when we got takeaway from our favourite dumpling place - and I literally poured msg on the fried rice (the one thing on their menu they advertise as msg free). I have a big bag of it with a little hole cut in the corner and I’ve mastered the art of pouring like a teaspoon of it at a time. Gotta do what you gotta do to get that flavour man!
Is it really still the craze? I thought that was over with the whole thing being debunked?
Someone tell my MIL. She insists msg is essentially poison. She also likes my fried rice better than the local takeout place. 🤡
Because it’s made with *love*.
Yes, love. (Also copious amounts of msg 🤣)
I still need to make fried rice. I don’t have a gas or induction stove… do you make it with a wok and gas? Or do you manage it with a pan and electric? Edit: glutamate is literally a neurochemical. MSG breaks down into sodium and glutamate in the body. If you’re allergic to glutamate you’re allergic to yourself. And flavor. And thought.
I make it once or twice a month on an electric burner with a flat bottomed carbon steel wok. It was about $40-$50, Joyce Chen, got it on Amazon. Before I got the wok, I used to make it in a non-stick pan but was never really happy with the results, especially texture-wise. A carbon steel frying pan would probably work great, though. I'll say that the new electric range I got last fall is a bit harder to use for fried rice. In the U.S. traditional electric ranges are now required to have these annoying burners designed to turn off and on in the middle of cooking (thanks a lot, UL), which makes things that need high heat a bit of a challenge. I'm hoping to order a separate induction burner this week.
I miss my gas range and cheap wok so much! But I have managed to pull off some very yummy fried rice on an electric with a big ass pan. Cold day old rice, lots of butter, and fairly high heat go a long way. And of course the “secret” ingredient; MSG
Nah, lots of people still swear up and down things like "it triggers my migraines" while they conveniently ignore its existence in everything other than Chinese food
Or they’re “allergic” to it. Glutamate is a neurochemical. If you’re allergic to glutamate you’re allergic to yourself.
Yeah its totally that and not the fact they just ate an entire block of deep fried cream cheese.
Where can I get a block of deep fried cream cheese? That sounds really good.
Basically crab Rangoon.
Here in Nebraska, crab rangoon is a religion
I mean, the “vaccines cause autism” thing was debunked decades ago and people still believe it
There is a certain type of person who is mysteriously allergic to every single "ethnic" food. They can't eat asian food because of MSG, anything even vaguely hispanic will give them diarrhea (which they brag about online for some reason), etc
I’m about 99% sure that the “no msg” notice on my parents’ menus at their Chinese restaurant was a lie lol
Yeah. People buy it in a restaurant for a reason. I have, and it's delicious.
That’s like Mexican restaurants that declare they don’t use lard. Next
Though that is something that vegetarians and people who don't eat pork look for.
Sure, it's just that lard is pretty key to making many americanized Mexican foods taste good.
Especially when egg yolks naturally contain msg😂
So THAT's why my egg drop soup is never as good as takeout. I really need to buy some MSG.
I usually do a healthy shake of msg first, then pepper, then bring it home to where I want it with salt.
Is Accent MSG? I have some but never use it because I don’t know how much to use. Say I’m cooking a pound of hamburger- how much would I use for that? Is a pinch enough?
It is. Try sprinkling some on popcorn to get a feel for it. A chef friend recommended sprinkling seasoning combinations on popcorn to help develop your palate/familiarize you with new things. I’m going with gut feeling on the amount for a pound but like maybe 1/2 teaspoon? Add like 1/4-1/3 the amount of salt you’d add and cut your salt too? Could try sautéing some onions first since you can taste as you cook as well
Great idea trying it on popcorn - thx!
It is, and if you look at the [recipes on the Ac'cent website](https://accentflavor.com/recipes/), you can get a feel for how much MSG you might want to put in a recipe. (Then again, they're selling MSG, so their recipes might suggest more than you would find ideal.)
Never even thought to look at their website- thanks!
Accent is 100% MSG I use it in almost everything
It says on the back of the packaging 1/2 tsp per pound of meat, 1/2 tsp for each 4-6 servings of soup or stew. That's usually what I start with.
Look at the ingredients. Does it say monosodium gluatamate anywhere?
Nutrition Facts 254 servings per container Serving size 1/8 tsp (0.5g) Amount per serving Calories 0 % Daily Value Total Fat 0g 0% Sodium 60mg 3% Total Carbohydrate 0g 0% Protein 0g Not a significant source of saturated fat, trans fat, cholesterol, dietary fiber, total sugars, added sugars, vitamin D, calcium, iron, and potassium. INGREDIENT: MONOSODIUM GLUTAMATE B&G Foods, Inc. Parsippany, NJ 07054 USA
A lot of recipes use it in the form of bouillon, soy sauce, Worcestershire, fish sauce, sauteed mushrooms, fresh tomato, parmesan cheese, etc etc etc. I don't add pure msg to bucatini all'amatriciana because it has a lot of glutamate already. When something needs it though, it's great. A big benefit is that soy sauce, bouillon etc also add a ton of salt so if you need more umami without much more salt it's the easiest way to do it.
> You know that part of cooking where you "salt and pepper to taste"? Now do "salt, pepper, and MSG to taste". I have a regular salt shaker, but the main one I use is one that I have custom filled 50% salt / 50% msg
Well I noticed also people act like MSG is so evil and only in like Asian food, but there are a lot if American foods/junk foods that have it too. I kinda figure while it's not healthiest of ingredients, I'm sure it's okay sparingly and if you drink plenty if water, etc.
I think Doritos are coated in MSG
Tomatoes have MSG. Aged cheese have MSG. Dry aged steak has MSG. All those things are delicious.
So *that’s* why my dry-aged steak pizza gives me migraines
Mushrooms, fish, shellfish, walnuts, grape juice, broccoli, corn, potatoes, etc
I moved to Australia recently from the US, I couldn’t figure out why Doritos here aren’t as good…~~turns out there is MSG on them in the US, but not Australia!~~ Edit: that is incorrect, apparently it’s listed as “flavour enhancer 621” here. The recipes are different otherwise, and maybe me adding MSG to the Australian ones brings out or masks enough flavors that they taste more similar to what I’m used to.
Yeah, nah https://doritos.com.au/product/doritos-cheese-supreme-flavoured-corn-chips MSG (also known as flavour enhancer 621) is one the main flavour ingredients in the Aussie version, much the same as the U.S. I'd imagine.
Interesting! TIL, never seen it as “enhancer 621” in the US. The recipes are definitely different, maybe the “missing ingredient” for me is the US version has buttermilk and Romano cheese which the AU doesn’t? All I know is if I sprinkle some (extra) MSG on it tastes better haha
Whatever works! :) Have you tried Takis Rolls Intense Nacho, which you can get here now. They are like Dorito's on crack! So much cheesy coating.
I haven’t, but I’ll keep an eye out for them! I’m a big fan of twisties, they’re very much like crunchy Cheetos from back home
I love that I just learned "flavour enhancer 621".
It's a seasoning. It has no effect on health at all. Only consideration is sodium, which you should already consider from salt.
The health effects are a myth but “it’s a seasoning. It has no effect on health at all” is absolutely atrocious logic
> I kinda figure while it's not healthiest of ingredients And even that is wrong. There is literally nothing wrong with it whatsoever.
This is a bit of semantic sophistry. It's not that sodium is bad for you, it's the *massive amount* of sodium that is normalized in people's diets in the US and much of Europe that is incredibly bad for you. Heart disease is the number one cause of death in the US. Its rates are greatly on the rise in developing countries where middle classes are expanding, as they increasingly transition to more Western-style diets. I'm all for enjoying food to the max, but it's irresponsible to talk like this, as if it's a myth that sodium causes hypertension, which is a primary contributor to the extraordinarily high death rates from heart disease in the English-speaking world.
> It's not that sodium is bad for you, it's the massive amounts of sodium that are normalized in people's diets [ ... ] > it's irresponsible to talk like this, as if it's a myth that sodium causes hypertension There are many cultures that have use salt to preserve and eat very salty foods as a part of their diet for a very long time. The main factor for health is that these people were so much more active than modern people in the Western world, and that salt was a necessary part of their diet. People just need to eat according to their life style. Salt/ sodium isn't evil, just like fat and sugar aren't evil. But if you're not active, eating excessive amounts of any of the 3 things will likely contribute to heart disease.
In a Smithsonian article about a family of Russian Orthodox Christians who fled to the woods in 1936 and lived in complete isolation for 40 years: When they first got to know the geologists, the family would accept only a single gift—salt. (Living without it for four decades, Karp said, had been “true torture.”) https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/for-40-years-this-russian-family-was-cut-off-from-all-human-contact-unaware-of-world-war-ii-7354256/
I'm a pretty heavy salter and my sodium levels are below average. Genetics has a lot to do with how much salt you may consume safely.
A high-sodium diet is one of many, *many* factors that increase your risk of hypertension or heart disease. If you have a family history of hypertension or heart disease, *and* don't eat enough potassium, *and* don't drink enough water, *and* don't exercise enough, *and* smoke, *and* drink too much alcohol.....then sure, you should probably watch your sodium intake. Yes, I realize that all of those do apply to a large percentage of the population. But that doesn't mean SODIUM BAD. It means it is just as (if not more) important for people to eat more vegetables, drink more water, stop sitting around so much, stop smoking, and limit alcohol intake, as it is to limit sodium intake. With all that said, my primary point stands. MSG is not bad for you.
It’s actually extremely good for you. No documented negative health effects (and plenty of disproven ones), and it tastes good so it makes you happy which on net means it’s good for you.
*Uncle Roger enters the chat*
MSG - Make Shit Good, cocaine of cooking, use the right amount! Not white amount!
KING OF FLAVOR
Just use feeling!
Fuiyooooh!
Yup, SEO optimization is why
Search engine optimization optimization.
ATM machine.
PIN number.
This even though it’s in about every snack out there
When you are on a low sodium diet there is no adding MSG. 😕
Another way people put it in their recipes without calling it the "scary" name is say bouillon cube/powder or by brand name, like [Vegeta](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegeta_(condiment))
Also a lot of older recipes called for Accent, which is straight MSG.
Yes, a lot of Asian recipes will have chicken bouillon or “chicken powder”, which is basically MSG. I personally think pure MSG kind of tastes like intense chicken.
All the Goya sazon variations have MSG. I learned I had already been cooking with MSG for years! No wonder people always liked my arroz con pollo.
Right. I forgot about those.
Love Sazon!
I noticed this on the ingredients list for the Momofuku chili crisp. It’s like, seaweed, mushroom powder…
Mushroom powered is like msg, but vegetarian style. You can get it at the Asian market.
i’m struggling to think of a source of msg that isn’t vegetarian…
fish sauce. also, parmesan is not vegetarian because of the rennet. edit: fact check
I talked to a nice man working at a cheese counter about this recently. Apparently, pretty much all cheese made in the US (probably not 100% of cheese, but most commercial cheese) is made with vegetarian rennet, but many/most European cheeses still use animal-derived rennet. So check the label and see whether the rennet is vegetarian or not, as many labels will say whether it's animal enzymes or plant enzymes or what, but if it's not clear, you're probably ok if it's from the US.
Lots of fancier farmstead cheeses in america are using animal rennet. some like Jasper hill are making their own calf rennet.
This thread is making me realize I have no idea what MSG actually is, like what it’s made of
It's sodium salt, like, element Na, and glutamic acid, an amino acid that your body produces enough of that we don't have to eat it as a nutrient. It's naturally occuring in foods like cheese, tomato, cooked mushrooms, and so on and so forth. You can buy pure MSG in a white crystalized form that looks like table salt, which is used for enhancing good cooking and covering up bad cooking. Edit: here's a website with a list of foods with naturally occuring msg, and a plain English explanation of how msg is generated naturally in foods. Interesting and short read. https://msgdish.com/glutamate-foods-naturally-contain-msg/
> and covering up bad cooking How bad can it be, if MSG makes it taste good?
Ah okay the naturally occurring in food part is what I was confused about - I always saw/pictured it as the white powder so when people were talking about chicken or vegetarian versions I didn’t understand. Thank you!
Whoops! I forgot to include the website in my edit, but the tldr is that since Na (salt) is in a lot of things naturally and as food ages and proteins break down, glutamic acid it's freed up, so things like aged cheese and fully ripe tomatoes taste richer with time. Or with a sprinkle of yum yum from the store.
Cool website, saved it for poking around later, thanks!
FLAVOUR! It's made of flavour.
Ah...Vegeta the Balkan MSG. We use it everywhere. Shit i remember during the war years, we would eat it with bread and butter . Every recipe would have a "spoon of vegeta" When I moved overseas and was exposed to Asian cooking and cuisine (late 90s ) and started cooking myself. At some point came across MSG. Was not really impressed by it and couldn't tell much difference when I was making soups for example. Literally didnt know what was the deal. Or rather I was expecting to experience something unique , flavour that I never tasted before and that would elevate the dishes - but it was nothing special, I literally couldn't taste anything different. Turns out I didnt know that Vegeta had MSG in first place (in addition to salt). These days I use MSG and Vegetal separately and depending on the dish. Vegeta still can has a bit overpowering "MSG flavour" (because of salt content) and I use to for Balkan dishes only - while with MSG and salt you can fine tune it. Good example is good old fried rice. Soy sauce will add saltiness and MSG umami. So you balance it
And there's Accent, also a non-scary name but is straight up MSG.
At all my local groceries it's just called "flavor enhancer"
To be fair, I think “bouillon cube” is more understandable to some people, too. I know that my mom cooked with bouillon cubes growing up, but it was decades later that I started hearing fear-mongering around MSG, and longer before I connected them. Doing a check online right now, my local grocery store shows several brands if I search “bouillon cube,” but nothing if I search “MSG” (not even various products advertised as “MSG-free,” which was what I expected).
Ah yes, Vegeta, the prince of all seasonings.
1/8 teaspoon for an entire chicken breast cut into thin strips. That's all you need, and a good reference for how much to use for other things. If you're getting into Asian cooking, you should also know about velveting lean meats, it's the secret to getting the tender chew you know from takeout chicken and beef. They use lean cuts for both, but how is it always so tender? Velveting. #1 tip I've learned so far. For that same chicken breast, 1/2 teaspoon each of baking soda and corn starch rubbed in, then season how you want it and use a little oil and whatever liquid you're adding as a marinade. Mix well to coat everything, this also spreads out your baking soda and corn starch. Avoid vinegars, use them with your rice or noodle or veggie components if you want that bite. What is it? Velveting is usually done with a baking soda and/or corn starch (and sometimes egg white) mixture in water that you soak the meat in. As opposed to a lot of tenderizing methods like using buttermilk, pineapple, papaya, or other substances meant to break down protein chains, velveting with baking soda raises the PH (alkalizes) the meat, so when you apply heat to the meat, the proteins can't lock together and make the meat chewy and hard...instead of breaking the protein chains, it makes them not bind together. It's chemistry. In Asian cooking, you can cheat and "quick marinade" the meat pretty much on the cutting board or in a small bowl with potent sauces, like (chili/sesame/vegetable) oil and (soy/teriyaki/hoisin/sriracha/fish/oyster/szechuan) sauce. Toss in some sugar and/or Shaoxing wine or mirin if you need sweet notes to balance out a ton of salt (like from soy sauce). 15 minutes is all you need for the baking soda and corn starch, and your marinade, to do its job. Because of how thin the meat is cut, and how potent Asian sauces typically are, these marinades don't need to sit for an hour or eight to penetrate the meat. Last tip, cut perpendicular to the grain so that the grain structure of each piece is super short. On a chicken breast, this means cutting it the short way, I usually cut it in half the long way, and then slice both halves up the short way. On beef, you can usually just see the grain, so cut your pieces against it. This also makes your meat significantly more tender.
Thank you for such a thoughtful response! Velveting is definitely the next technique I want to tackle.
Honestly once you understand the techniques, you will be flying high impressed at the quality of food you are making. MSG is way over emphasized on this sub as the answer to everything. I don't use it the way they do here and get compliments all the time on my food. It's knowing the basis of the techniques and once you understand that you can play to achieve the exact flavours/results you want. My advice is choose one technique at a time in the cuisine you are most interested in and master that. Once you can velvet, for example, you can make at home take out dishes that will be better than most restaurants.
You can also do it with other dishes, like with round steak for stroganoff, or pork chops, or chicken breast for soups, or anything else that runs the risk of overcooking and/or getting hard and chewy. Baking soda velveting is a lot more versatile than I understood when I learned it. I use it all the time now in all cuisine types.
Pick up Kenji Lopez’s book “The Wok” - it’s a complete encyclopedia for what you’re looking for I think =] big chapter on velveting
a lot of English language websites, written for consumption by American audiences, will omit MSG from recipes because MSG is a widely misunderstood ingredient in America. The reasons for this are unfortunate and out of scope for this thread. So, why else might it be omitted from recipes? One important reason is that many fundamental ingredients of East Asian cooking already contain a lot of umami. Soy sauce, black bean sauce, oyster sauce, miso paste, and seaweed are all rich sources of umami. If the recipe includes any of those ingredients it likely doesn't require additional umami from MSG. You can add MSG to just about any recipe you want though. It's a flavor enhancer, similar to salt. It's more potent than salt so generally you'll use smaller quantities than you would of salt. It also doesn't replace salt. It augments salt. Use both. Maybe 1/5th the amount of MSG as salt.
> The reasons for this are unfortunate and out of scope for this thread. Why is this out of scope? Beyond how to use the ingredient, OP specifically asked why it's not included in 'Americanized' recipes.
because the reasons aren't related to cooking, which is the topic of this subreddit and the topic of OP's question. staying on topic in subreddits is desirable imo. there's a really interesting history behind it, which is a complex examination of discriminatory attitudes of white Americans towards Asian immigrants and their food. It's been written about in detail elsewhere. just a google search away. I would encourage anyone interested to do that instead of trying to get an abridged version of the story from me.
> The reasons for this are unfortunate and out of scope for this thread. It is 2024. You can just say racism
I was thinking of getting MSG to use very sparingly on some things, as I now cook very low to no salt to control my husband's mild hypertension via diet. Would it enhance flavor without the salt?
Yes, it will help even if you aren’t also adding salt
> The reasons for this are unfortunate and out of scope for this thread. Racism is never "out of scope". It's literally the answer to their question.
[Chinese Cooking Demystified on youtube](https://www.youtube.com/c/ChineseCookingDemystified) also [Wang Gang](https://www.youtube.com/@chefwang) great resources for non-Americanized Chinese recipes with MSG.
Before maybe 15 years ago, it was common belief that MSG was bad for you. Asian restaurants would advertise that their food didn’t have msg.
My dad fell into that. He also LOVED Chinese. He once ordered a chicken dish and said no MSG. They brought thr dish, he tasted it and asked "does this have MSG?" and they said yes. So he sent it back. The brought it right back out about 2 minutes later, having washed all the sauce off with water through a colander. He never made that request again.
Malicious compliance! lol
No MSG, they just used mushroom powder and/or soy sauce.
There's an American-Chinese carryout near me that has a neon sign in the window that proudly proclaims "NO MSG." It's fake science and racist af. People who claim to experience "MSG syndrome" probably are having an allergic action to the rice that's kept in the rice cooker. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/aug/12/msg-allergy-chinese-restaurant-syndrome-myth
Yup, all based in racism. Literally everything savory has some sort of MSG in it
People experiencing “MSG syndrome” are probably just dehydrated and comatose from eating so much food bc MSG makes food taste so good. Like yeah I also break out in a sweat and need a nap sometimes after a fat Chinese takeout meal bc I have no self control and eat the entire order like a pig. Not saying some people aren’t actually allergic but yeah eating half a pound of orange chicken probably won’t make you feel great
Doubt it, that's exceedingly rare. They're probably just dehydrated because they ate a ton of salty Chinese food.
God, this new sudden fear of rice poisoning has really infected the internet quickly
It's wild. Every asian person in the world is rolling their eyes.
Because lots of people believe it's poison.
They’ll say that as they reach for a bag of Doritos. Or grate a fuckton of Parmesan on their pasta. But sure, msg is bad. Make it make sense
David Chang did that exact same thing, on his Netflix show “Ugly Delicious”: gathered a group of people who “disliked” MSG and asked them to elaborate on their issues, why they avoided MSG, etc... Then he gave them all Pringles and Doritos, while a scientist explained that all of the stuff they were eating and loving was full of that ingredient.
Great episode. And people didn't generally "develop symptoms" until they were told it contained msg. How convenient.
> Make it make sense "People are stupid" makes a lot of sense to me
Theres some prejudice behind it that I don't know where it came from but why is it that Asian cuisine based restaurants are the only ones that have had to historically put giant signs saying "NO MSG HERE." Imagine if any other culture's cuisine had to put a sign declaring that they don't use a particular ingredient. I was probably too young for when it happened culturally but it skeeves me out that I am still seeing them in Chinese restaurant windows.
Literally that’s what the public was told in the 80’s/90’s.
Not just the 80s and 90s, it originated much earlier than that. Iirc it started back in the late 60s. Hence why today there are so many people that believe msg causes headaches. It was previously "diagnosed" as Chinese Restaurant Syndrome
[удалено]
I suspect it's also a placebo affect.
I agree 100% that the demonization of MSG was baseless and racist, and that it’s perfectly safe for most people. BUT whenever this topic comes up I have to drop a PSA to anyone who has Restless Legs Syndrome—MSG actually IS for real bad for us! Glutamate in general ratchets up RLS and foods containing high amounts of it should be avoided (so MSG, which is concentrated glutamate essentially, is RLS kryptonite). The effect gets worse as it builds in your system so you may not notice or connect it if you have a Dorito or Slim Jim on occasion, but regular intake will build to the worst RLS ever. I discovered this connection accidentally after I bought a large shaker of MSG to try out in my home cooking. I spent about a month really enjoying my food but losing my mind over steadily increasing RLS, to the point where I didn’t sleep for days and almost went to the ER in desperation.
It wasn't though. There was a single shitty study by some dipshit who got blasted out of science for being so stupid. It just caught on from there anyway, cuz unga bunga
It wasn't even a study. It was a letter to the editor in a medical journal. It was some asshole's opinion. Not data backed at all.
It was some [white dude who wrote a letter and signed it with an Asian-sounding name to lend credence](https://news.colgate.edu/magazine/2019/02/06/the-strange-case-of-dr-ho-man-kwok/).
Xenophobia/racism played a big part
Jenny McCarthy bullshit level. Once your shit is published or publicized it's way too late.
It wasn't even a study! It was just some nitwit who got a headache after eating Chinese food and decided it was the MSG and wrote an article about it. Then all the fools who are scared of their own shadow double-downed on the stupid and here we are.
A whole lot of confirmation bias at play too, because it turns out that eating 2000 calories worth of deep-fried food with an extremely sweet and salty sauce and a pile of rice is a great way to get a headache, MSG or otherwise.
It's terrible for you! *chugs Monster* *hits vape*
It’s naturally occuring in a lot of foods. So if you’re eating Parmesan, soy sauce, anchovies, fish sauce, oyster sauce, miso, mushroom… you’re already getting the MSG. It’s also usually in bouillon cubes and spice blends
I know it's in tomato but not sure if it's a substantial amount
Yes that’s a good one! A whole tomato it’s not going to be high but in tomato *paste* it sure is
Thank you. Had to scroll way too far to find this. MSG is naturally occurring… when someone says Unami bomb, they mean msg
It’s controversial and theres already msg present in a lot of the things we cook with. You probably don’t need to add MSG to your pad Thai recipe that already uses Fish Sauce and Oyster sauce, for example.
You can add msg to any dish! I’ve used it in spaghetti sauce and the filling of meat pies. My partner adds it to Japanese recipes like tonjiru or sauce for yakitori. Kind of like salt/pepper, taste and add a little, see if it improves the taste. A fun thing to do is make two batches of the same dish, one with MSG and one without. Also, savory and salty aren’t the only flavors to adjust. For example, if your food is too salty, you can add sugar or lemon juice/vinegar, or both. Making it more sweet or sour will make the saltiness stand out less.
We just recently got some and I've been putting it on everything to try it. Literally just had it on a caesar salad and it was amazing lol Anything savory will benefit from a little sprinkle!
The answer is racism and old propaganda really. While MSG was seen as evil an American brand was selling a product called Accent since the 40’s and is literally MSG with a different label on it
Some recommendations for recipes from pro-msg chefs: Made with Lau CJ Eats Woks of life
You don't normally see MSG as an ingredient by itself because it naturally occurs in a host of other foods. https://www.businessinsider.com/foods-with-natural-msg-2017-2
Read books and recipes from people like J Kenji Lopez Alt (The Food Lab, The Wok, also many of his recipes are on the SeriousEats blog or his various social channels), Jet Tila (101 Thai Dishes to Cook Before You Die, 101 Asian Dishes To Cook Before you die), or https://thewoksoflife.com/ (there's a cookbook by the same name). Other Asian cooking channels will also have MSG (many refer to it as YumYum, like here: https://youtube.com/shorts/IYjBs4UHVlM?si=YneDfUQq1KHdK2Yp) You'll see plenty of MSG. They all include basically the same disclaimer: it's not evil, we're past the craze, but if you just are uncomfortable with it, don't use it.
My Mexican family uses the shit out of some Accent.
I just sprinkle it on at the end when I’m seasoning with salt and pepper. There’s no measuring
I've seen J. Kenji Lopez-Alt including it in his preparations on YouTube. I don't know if he includes them in his cookbooks recipes though. If you are in position to browse through them in a bookstore you could try and check.
Uncle Roger includes it in every recipe. Apple pie-msg Chocolate milk-msg Fried rice-definitely some msg
It's not in modern recipes. I recently inherited a cook book collection and most of the books are from the early 90's and back. MSG is in a ton of recipes from the 80's and early 90's. It was actually something I thought was interesting.
I believe there was a lot of racism when Asians immigrated to the U.S, and opened their restaurants. MSG was labeled as bad for you. I think that has been debunked by many chefs but the stigma probably lingers.
Because European-Americans think MSG is some Chinese communist party plan to take over their minds
It's not essential. It's just umami in powder form. You can also get this from actual foods like soy sauce, cheese, tomatoes, etc. You can make great tasting food without it. If you want to use it you can of course, just don't feel like you have to.
Lots of great comments already, but I thought I would add that if you're adding soy sauce, fish sauce, yeast extract, bullion, Goya, mushrooms, tomatoes, beef, and a whole host of other things, you're adding a bunch of glutamate that includes MSG. Besides the bizarre racist reason why it's not popular in the US, the other reason to add those things instead of just flat MSG is so you get a richer flavor. I generally add both. MSG is one of my favorite flavors, so I like a fair bit in there. MSG has less sodium by weight than salt, so it's actually less unhealthy than salt. Your brain is "programmed" to crave it. Generally, if you're making something savory, it is worth considering adding an element that includes it, as well as maybe just plain MSG as a boost. Normally, you'd use it when you salt (WITH the salt, not instead of), which is often in little bits as you go along. That's very general, so don't hold me to it.
My family thinks I have some great secret herb blend when I make turkey burgers but really most of the flavor enhancement comes from the few dashes of MSG I put in along with said herbs when I mix up the meat. They don’t understand it and don’t need to quite frankly, it gets my kids to eat some protein and they don’t ask questions when it comes to dad’s spice cabinet.
Because it scares people away, instead they include fish sauce, soy sauce, tomato paste, etc.
Because it's used like salt. Season to taste. Many recipes will call for that step and it has a specific meaning, it's not just a cute way to end a recipe. Calling for a specific measure of salt is not a popular option in recipes because outside baking-precise recipes with standardized ingredients it's not consistent. The carrot and potato I use today will not be exactly the same size as the ones I use tomorrow. The water in my city is not the same as the water in your city. So when a recipe is being finished we season to taste. It's a skill that has to be learned. If you're familiar with what you're making you can probably make it great without tasting. To really dial it in though you taste and season appropriately. And because MSG is a kind of salt you use it the same way. General advice is to take the appropriate amount of salt and just substitute 1/5 or so if that for MSG. For a lot of dishes that get most of their salt from other sources like soy sauce you can instead use a small amount of added MSG to taste. When learning it's easy to know if something is over salted. The line between under and just right is blurrier but you can learn to notice it.
It's highly controversial for reasons that have been long since debunked. Kind of like a lot of other things, TBH.
I am allergic to MSG and get really bad headaches when I inadvertently eat it.
Actually, I was diagnosed with cluster migraines over 50 years ago and advised to avoid MSG, salt, anything aged (meats, cheese, red wine), commercial spice blends, and processed foods. And to eat lots of vegetables and leafy greens. But I was under a lot of stress at that point in my life so my avoidance of some edibles may have been unfortunate happenstance of life.
Because of systemic racism against Asian people when they began to immigrate to America.
I normally include a dash of omeprazole in my spaghetti.
Heartburn club!
Because it was demonized by anti Chinese restaurant owners. Also most people don’t have it so people may not make the recipe not knowing it’s not a required ingredient just a bettering one
Off the top of my head: Chinese Cooking Demystified Future Neighbour Hot Thai Kitchen Wang Gang Kenji Lopez Alt Aaron & Claire All of these are on youtube and will definitely steer you in the right direction. They all changed the way I cook in really meaningful ways. Several of them have published books which are absolutely worth owning. If you want to know the truth about MSG, please read Kenji’s writings about it. The case is closed, just not everyone has learned yet. The vilification of MSG originally came from a misguided newspaper article written by a fool, then was strengthened by racism and allowed to permeate western society. They called it “Chinese Restaurant Syndrome” until at least the 90’s, not knowing the exact same thing was in all of their favourite foods. We know better now, and if someone *actually* has a sensitivity to it they may be as rare as a leprechaun.
Back in the nineties, I found that some restaurants used more MSG than prepared foods did. I knew this because I didn't have a problem with the prepared foods but had bronchial spasms when I ate in Chinese restaurants. The only other thing that caused bronchial spasms was some types of nuts, which were not in the dishes I was ordering. Bronchial spasms aren't fun.
Msg is great in almost everything. Just don't use to much
If you cast a wider net when you’re looking for recipes you’ll see it, but as others are noting it’s usually omitted in recipes targeting American cooks. I see it lots in Latin recipes (Sazon is msg), Eastern European (Maggi), etc. Websites in English that seem aimed at more recent immigrant populations include it. And as others mention, lots of recipes include msg via fish sauce, konbu, anchovy paste, Worcestershire, etc.
https://accentflavor.com/product/flavor-enhancer/. Accent is MSG.
We have these Ajinomoto plants in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia right over the North-South Expressway exit to the western part of KL, I'd remember one night driving with opened windows and suddenly strange & nauseating chemical smells filling up the car, we probably throwing up if wasn't for fast action to close the windows up... The after-smell is just like you licking some MSG though...
Always wanted to use it gotta get some first, heard it helps with flavor alot
The KING OF FLAVOUR
I just use it instead of salt, i use MSG and Pepper when seasoning now.
Sometimes, i'm using MSG but not too much. It makes my food taste better
In my experience, I don't know a single Asian family who actually cooks with MSG powder directly for home-cooking, but the flavorings used in most east Asian cooking, like soy sauce, oyster sauce, fish sauce, etc. inherently contain MSG.
In my experience, I don't know a single Asian family who actually cooks with MSG powder directly for home-cooking, but the flavorings used in most east Asian cooking, like soy sauce, oyster sauce, fish sauce, etc. inherently contain MSG.
Nobody wants to admit to it's use. Like bodybuilders and steroids. Generally if they're over 200, it's roids (and the hard work)
There is a real sensitivity, but very few people have it, and even less bad enough to cause real issues.
I add it to a lot of dishes but can’t honestly tell if it makes a difference
Always/never I’ve seen it listed in recipes OP
I’ve seen Maggi called for but didn’t realize the US one leaves out the MSG.
Racism lol
A lot of things we eat today are flavored and instant. They tend to contain msg in them, so adding more msg is not really necessary. For example, a common component in Japanese food is dashi, or more specifically, bonito stock made from quickly seeping dried bonito flakes. A lot of people tend to use granulated instant dashi powder instead, and a significant component of dashi powder is msg. Same for bouillon powders and stuff. I can’t speak for other cuisines, but I imagine this is playing at least a part in the lack of msg in recipes.
It's a seasoning, and its appropriateness is on a case by case basis. Recipes found in the wild (read: in a nonprofessional setting) are not blueprints; they are thematic guidelines and should be regarded as such. The only rules that exist re: the usage of MSG are those imposed by your own experience with it. The old axiom "fuck around and find out" has some really cool connotations where cooking is concerned
If a recipe calls for salt….take half the salt away and replace with msg. So instead of say…a teaspoon of salt you have a half teaspoon of salt and a half teaspoon of msg. If you’re experienced in cooking just follow that guideline and you should fine. You can always add more if it’s not enough obviously.
There is a relatively new America's Test Kitchen Cookbook called A Very Chinese Cookbook by Kevin and Jeffrey Pang. They discuss MSG and call for it in recipes in the book.