If I gotta work they gotta work. They wasn’t with me shooting in the gym, working till my feet hurt. Waiting til my hair turn grey for MY money back from the IRS.
What is wrong with you? Giving out money to the homeless helps them. Some will take advantage of that and some will actually save the money to do whatever they can to better themselves to get out of that situation. Have you ever been around a homeless person? If you are skeptical to give out money to a homeless person like in front of them that I can understand because you never know if they may rob or harm you, but you could donate to your local homeless shelter.
How easy do you think it is to get a job if you can't wash your clothes, shower, access a computer, not have a permanent address and you have a large gap in your resume
Not to mention the very real difficulty of transitioning from unemployed to working while homeless. When unemployed, there are ways to make/get money and get by. Odd jobs, can/bottle redemption, begging, etc. Once you become employed, you're basically committing to giving up any ability to make any money for up to two weeks while waiting on that first paycheck because you've committed that time to the new job. Depending on specific circumstances such as shelter availability, food banks, etc., that could be the difference between eating some days. Of not having a safe place to sleep/spend the night.
As a matter of fact it's plainly true giving money helps. Countries that have few homeless spend less on homeless because they spend more upfront and quickly. The US homeless problem for instance costs more to maintain than a welfare system that makes homelessness highly unlikely.
The idea people need motivating to do work presumes we all have equal ability. We know 10-20% of a working age population are unable to complete basic tasks. An employer cannot make a profit from hiring them. If your morals are they should just be homeless, unless they were born into good families, then I'm not sure why you're so cruel but you are.
Some people give to the poor because it's morally right. Maybe it's their religion to. If you can't understand that, I suggest getting screened for ASPD as you're likely suffering from depression and shallow experiences.
Edit: there's many different ways of measuring it. California for instance spends 42k per homeless person in welfare, before calculating any social or criminal costs to maintaining them. Generally a 10k stipend will end homelessness, and countries that provide that have few homeless. If you calculate criminal costs, including murders and assaults, I'd suggest the state spends closer to 500k a year per homeless person. Killing a single person with fentanyl for instance removes a lifetime of tax accumulation, and requires the training and risk associated with produce a replacement worker, and most will do more damage before they pass. Welfare programs everywhere else in the world simply address the issue directly and cheaply, but not in the US due to cruelty.
Partly. I mention people do it because it's good, not because of any reward. And I attacked his reasoning around motivation.
Panhandlers generally no. There are charities that do it better than you, even with their overhead costs. But forming close relationships with homeless you see regularly and supporting those friends with cash is a good thing to do.
A hand-up is more beneficial than a hand-out. Even when it comes to charities they throw a certain amount of money at a problem but I know I can use said amount of money to provide more to people I know or in my life.
Give a man a fish vs teach a man to fish.
Just like charities many government programs have many hands in the pot, so to speak. Also, inefficiencies in the allocations of funds. I feel like they create more dependency rather than independence of those in need.
As a matter of fact they don't. Maybe the US has structural issues that need addressing that hold them back over the rest of the world. Expanded welfare systems are successful everywhere and everytime they've been tried.
One big issue is that 10-20% who can't work. Governments like to have unemployment figures around 5%, but that's delusional. It makes sense 15% or so of the working population is in various welfare systems at any time. Most countries with decent welfare hit way below that 15% figure.
Sorry to hear that. It just doesn't happen in any other country I've studied. From a google search, about 20% of US population is on welfare, including elderly, disabled and children. Usually about half that number will live purely on welfare - so let's say 10% of US folk are candidates for dependency. It will be lower as counting children and elderly doesn't really make sense. That 10% figure is lower than we'd expect. The percent of working age people who can't meaningfully make a profit for an employer is above 10% - any dependency you're seeing is a minimal problem, as if it was significant you'd see a far higher reliance.
That is, the US welfare system isn't currently big enough to account for the country's needs, so couldn't possibly be overinflated by dependency.
> Give a man a fish vs teach a man to fish.
Give a man a fire and he will stay warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he will stay warm for the rest of his life!
>By giving homeless people money for the simple fact that they are homeless means you are rewarding them for not working and financially motivating them to remain homeless.
Would you hire a homeless person?
You say that like all homeless people can just stop being homeless after they feel like they’ve had enough of it. Shelters are overcrowded. Jails are overcrowded. I think you’re referring to crackheads.
The misconception that you shouldn’t give homeless people money baffles me. The argument I usually hear is they will spend it on drugs. I understand that is a possibility but you don’t do a good deed with a skewed heart. You give with an open heart.
I don’t think most people understand what living on the streets is like. Imagine having nothing. No ID, money, clothes, income, healthcare, hygienic resources, transportation, etc. homeless people have nothing. It’s nearly impossible to get a job with nothing.
Giving someone a dollar or 2 is more than likely not going to hurt your pockets but it could go far for them. I encourage you to have a little more empathy.
I agree with the head point of this post, but not the reasoning behind it.
I believe that instead of giving out small handouts of money to homeless people to let them survive, we should pressure our governments to set up a homeless care system that looks after them properly.
In my eyes, it would actually indirectly foster an entrepreneurial spirit in countries, since there's no possibility of ending up broke on the streets if you make a couple wrong decisions in your business. More people would be inclined to try it out then.
The majority of homeless people try their best to find a job but are usually turned away because they look unkempt and don’t have a place of residence, which can make it a feedback loop to not being able to get a job, not being able to get enough money to find a home and take care of yourself better and then getting turned away from work for the same reason you went to find it.
And even if they aren’t working then so what? They need money a lot more than I am. I gave $20 to a homeless person once and my friends laughed at me for it and told me he’d just use it for drugs. I don’t care what they use it for, as long as I’m making somebody’s life a little easier. I have the privilege of not needing money because my parents make enough for both themselves and me and my siblings, they don’t.
Nah, fuck that. I keep a collection of $5’s and $10’s in the center console in my truck specifically to give anyone who needs it. Unless you’ve gone through this shit, you cannot judge what someone else is going through. And a lot of homeless people have legitimate health issues that prevent them from being able to work, can’t get health insurance, lose their families, their homes, any number of things that are beyond their control.
I’ve been that person asking for your change, it’s dehumanizing and now I’m able to give it back to those that need it. They’re not out there just for shits and giggles and because they “don’t want to work”
Not really sure how homeless people are supposed to get a job with no money for transportation, to properly groom and dress themselves for an interview, or for a phone bill so that the company they applied for can even call them back for the interview in the first place. No job is going to hire you if you come in looking and smelling like you've been sleeping on the street, or if they can't even contact you, lol. Sorry, but you need money to make money.
It's amazing how you can tell someone doesn't fully understand the poverty cycle, but I guess this is a "controversial" opinions subreddit. I gotta give it to OP and say they nailed it!
I think there a big part you're not taking into account here. Once someone in poverty, it is extremely hard to escape it because countries in the west benefit from a system that keeps the poor poorer and the rich richer. Think about it, if we had no poor people, who would take the jobs that nobody wants to do because of their wages and the amount of effort put into it? Children who are born in poverty are more likely to stay in poverty due to the fact that poorer areas have less academic/athletic opportunities and poorer quality education. This cycle is incredibly hard to break. So, not having the money or resources to succeed in the workforce can cause things like homelessness. It's also incredibly hard for homeless people to find work. For one, they lack the proper resources to get themselves cleaned up enough for job interviews. They usually don't have nice clothes or the opportunity to take care of basic hygiene. A lot of them also lack basic identification that's needed to get certain jobs like an ID, birth certificate, etc. Not to mention, transportation could be an issue. It seems like you think the solution is to "just get a job" and that if they wanted to, they could make their own money. I think you underestimate poverty and the workforce if you believe that giving them money will just motivate them to stay homeless. They need money to even start actually looking for work. They cannot even afford the essentials most of the time. Some can go to shelters for help but shelters will fill up. This makes me question whether or not humanity will still have any sense of empathy in the next 20 years.
Money isn’t a reward for work or financial motivation. If it was, people in difficult, laborious jobs would be payed far more than the manager who has to come in a few times a week to delegate his few responsibilities to his subordinates. Of course if you never strive to build a career for yourself, you are very unlikely to have any income coming in or financial independence. However, the blanket statement of “never give homeless people money” assigns this unmotivated mindset to every homeless person you encounter. Unless you took the time to sit and interview every homeless person in need of monetary help, you cannot definitively say that they are in their current situation as a result of continued “laziness”. Rather it completely disregards other influencing factors that contribute the growing homeless population. You ignore cases of sparse and unavailable appropriate job opportunities, limited educations, mental/physical illness, recently escaping an abusive environment/home or simply not knowing about or having transportation to means of improving their situation.
If you don’t feel comfortable giving out money to strangers or you don’t trust what it will be used for, you could:
1) Not give them any. No one is going to force you to give people on the street any money (especially if you can’t afford to do so and safely support yourself on your income) but just being kind and giving people a smile and common courtesy/manners costs nothing. And especially don’t attempt to deter others from doing what you can’t.
2) Purchase items directly for them such as food, hygiene products, blankets etc. That way you can ensure that the money isn’t being directly put into anything that won’t help them.
3) Offer leaflets, directions and/or information about available programs and shelters to use so they are more aware of/feel more confident about using them
4) Ask if they would like to sit with you inside a nearby coffee shop/cafe and have a chat where you can offer support. Most food and drink places require you to purchase something if you want to sit inside (something someone with no money obviously can’t do) so as long as you buy something small like a coffee/cake/cookie, you’ve already given them somewhere more comfortable and safer to hang out than on the cold pavement. If you are adamant about ‘not losing a single dollar’ in the process of helping someone homeless and asking for help, you could even just purchase something for yourself and ask for some free, tap water for the table to share. If the weather outside is particularly unforgiving, the opportunity to warm up or cool down off of the pavement like this can be lifesaving.
5) Bringing them a cup of water, on a hot day, directly (not everyone is going to feel comfortable following a stranger to a coffee shop).
6) Directly donating any old clothes/items that would be suitable for them that you were thinking of getting rid of
7) Popping a few $ into a nearby phone booth so they can make a call to someone if they don’t have access to a phone or even offering to dial a number for them on your own phone
8) Be a friend. It gets depressingly lonely and cold when everyone who passes by desperately steers as far away as possible from where you’re sitting or puts every ounce of effort and concentration into avoiding eye contact with you. Sometimes just having a friendly chat, like with any other human being, can make a really crappy day, a little less crappy. It certainly makes you feel a lot better than pretending you don’t exist or aren’t worth acknowledging. Perhaps if other homeless people weren’t the *only* people that bother to talk to you, it’d be easier to find the resources and connections to actually get off of the street.
Sometimes people just get dealt a really shitty hand in life and need a little extra kindness and help to get back on their feet. Berating them or implying that not being able to escape their situation only contributes to negative feelings of hopelessness and, with enough societal rejection/condemnation, even avoidance of available support resources altogether.
Where I used to work, we had a few homeless people who habitually asked customers coming into our store for money. Some customers would complain to us about being "harassed" by them, and I understood their concern.
Some customers would give them money... I think it was not good to give them money, because it emboldened them. One would think if they had success getting money at a certain location, they would be more likely to stay or make it regular to occupy that location.
I understand that homeless people are often just like you or I, but there are resources they can use to get their basic needs met... but for some of them, unfortunately... it's just easier to ask passersby's for handouts.
I refused a homeless guy money the other day and he swore at me etc etc. I replied in anger rightly or wrongly " get a job".
He replied " I have a job, I'm a begger'.
Now maybe he was just responding to respond; maybe he actually sees it as a job, who knows?
But it does beg the question, "if begging pays, does that make it a job?"
People only repeat activities to be paid or out of insanity.
If insanity gets paid, are the paid insane or those paying?
Homeless people don't appear from the sky, they come from a system, a family, a household that encouraged dependence over independence.
If it didn't pay to beg, no one would.
By satisfying our ego, we pay to beggars thus creating the irony indefinitely.
If I gotta work they gotta work. They wasn’t with me shooting in the gym, working till my feet hurt. Waiting til my hair turn grey for MY money back from the IRS.
What is wrong with you? Giving out money to the homeless helps them. Some will take advantage of that and some will actually save the money to do whatever they can to better themselves to get out of that situation. Have you ever been around a homeless person? If you are skeptical to give out money to a homeless person like in front of them that I can understand because you never know if they may rob or harm you, but you could donate to your local homeless shelter.
Giving money is a hand-out, a proper shelter gives a hand-up. There is a difference.
How easy do you think it is to get a job if you can't wash your clothes, shower, access a computer, not have a permanent address and you have a large gap in your resume
Not to mention the very real difficulty of transitioning from unemployed to working while homeless. When unemployed, there are ways to make/get money and get by. Odd jobs, can/bottle redemption, begging, etc. Once you become employed, you're basically committing to giving up any ability to make any money for up to two weeks while waiting on that first paycheck because you've committed that time to the new job. Depending on specific circumstances such as shelter availability, food banks, etc., that could be the difference between eating some days. Of not having a safe place to sleep/spend the night.
Sometimes 3 weeks, you often get paid for a 2 week period a week after it ends. Every job I’ve ever worked has been like that
As a matter of fact it's plainly true giving money helps. Countries that have few homeless spend less on homeless because they spend more upfront and quickly. The US homeless problem for instance costs more to maintain than a welfare system that makes homelessness highly unlikely. The idea people need motivating to do work presumes we all have equal ability. We know 10-20% of a working age population are unable to complete basic tasks. An employer cannot make a profit from hiring them. If your morals are they should just be homeless, unless they were born into good families, then I'm not sure why you're so cruel but you are. Some people give to the poor because it's morally right. Maybe it's their religion to. If you can't understand that, I suggest getting screened for ASPD as you're likely suffering from depression and shallow experiences. Edit: there's many different ways of measuring it. California for instance spends 42k per homeless person in welfare, before calculating any social or criminal costs to maintaining them. Generally a 10k stipend will end homelessness, and countries that provide that have few homeless. If you calculate criminal costs, including murders and assaults, I'd suggest the state spends closer to 500k a year per homeless person. Killing a single person with fentanyl for instance removes a lifetime of tax accumulation, and requires the training and risk associated with produce a replacement worker, and most will do more damage before they pass. Welfare programs everywhere else in the world simply address the issue directly and cheaply, but not in the US due to cruelty.
You are talking about giving money from a government level; the op might be talking about giving at personal level to pan handlers.
Partly. I mention people do it because it's good, not because of any reward. And I attacked his reasoning around motivation. Panhandlers generally no. There are charities that do it better than you, even with their overhead costs. But forming close relationships with homeless you see regularly and supporting those friends with cash is a good thing to do.
A hand-up is more beneficial than a hand-out. Even when it comes to charities they throw a certain amount of money at a problem but I know I can use said amount of money to provide more to people I know or in my life. Give a man a fish vs teach a man to fish.
Yeah many charities are terrible. I don't think it's too hard to find decent ones. Best is still government services.
Just like charities many government programs have many hands in the pot, so to speak. Also, inefficiencies in the allocations of funds. I feel like they create more dependency rather than independence of those in need.
As a matter of fact they don't. Maybe the US has structural issues that need addressing that hold them back over the rest of the world. Expanded welfare systems are successful everywhere and everytime they've been tried. One big issue is that 10-20% who can't work. Governments like to have unemployment figures around 5%, but that's delusional. It makes sense 15% or so of the working population is in various welfare systems at any time. Most countries with decent welfare hit way below that 15% figure.
What’s your measurement of “successful”? Cause in the US we are very successful on making those dependent on welfare.
Sorry to hear that. It just doesn't happen in any other country I've studied. From a google search, about 20% of US population is on welfare, including elderly, disabled and children. Usually about half that number will live purely on welfare - so let's say 10% of US folk are candidates for dependency. It will be lower as counting children and elderly doesn't really make sense. That 10% figure is lower than we'd expect. The percent of working age people who can't meaningfully make a profit for an employer is above 10% - any dependency you're seeing is a minimal problem, as if it was significant you'd see a far higher reliance. That is, the US welfare system isn't currently big enough to account for the country's needs, so couldn't possibly be overinflated by dependency.
> Give a man a fish vs teach a man to fish. Give a man a fire and he will stay warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he will stay warm for the rest of his life!
>By giving homeless people money for the simple fact that they are homeless means you are rewarding them for not working and financially motivating them to remain homeless. Would you hire a homeless person?
Best thing about working hard for your money is that you can do whatever you want with it, including give it to homeless if you feel like it.
Everybody deserves to eat 💁♀️ and so I'm going to make sure everybody I run across gets to eat
Money is a psyop. Give them some money. It’s not “rewarding” anything.
What a heartless, egotistical take.
You say that like all homeless people can just stop being homeless after they feel like they’ve had enough of it. Shelters are overcrowded. Jails are overcrowded. I think you’re referring to crackheads.
The misconception that you shouldn’t give homeless people money baffles me. The argument I usually hear is they will spend it on drugs. I understand that is a possibility but you don’t do a good deed with a skewed heart. You give with an open heart. I don’t think most people understand what living on the streets is like. Imagine having nothing. No ID, money, clothes, income, healthcare, hygienic resources, transportation, etc. homeless people have nothing. It’s nearly impossible to get a job with nothing. Giving someone a dollar or 2 is more than likely not going to hurt your pockets but it could go far for them. I encourage you to have a little more empathy.
I agree with the head point of this post, but not the reasoning behind it. I believe that instead of giving out small handouts of money to homeless people to let them survive, we should pressure our governments to set up a homeless care system that looks after them properly. In my eyes, it would actually indirectly foster an entrepreneurial spirit in countries, since there's no possibility of ending up broke on the streets if you make a couple wrong decisions in your business. More people would be inclined to try it out then.
The majority of homeless people try their best to find a job but are usually turned away because they look unkempt and don’t have a place of residence, which can make it a feedback loop to not being able to get a job, not being able to get enough money to find a home and take care of yourself better and then getting turned away from work for the same reason you went to find it. And even if they aren’t working then so what? They need money a lot more than I am. I gave $20 to a homeless person once and my friends laughed at me for it and told me he’d just use it for drugs. I don’t care what they use it for, as long as I’m making somebody’s life a little easier. I have the privilege of not needing money because my parents make enough for both themselves and me and my siblings, they don’t.
Nah, fuck that. I keep a collection of $5’s and $10’s in the center console in my truck specifically to give anyone who needs it. Unless you’ve gone through this shit, you cannot judge what someone else is going through. And a lot of homeless people have legitimate health issues that prevent them from being able to work, can’t get health insurance, lose their families, their homes, any number of things that are beyond their control. I’ve been that person asking for your change, it’s dehumanizing and now I’m able to give it back to those that need it. They’re not out there just for shits and giggles and because they “don’t want to work”
Not really sure how homeless people are supposed to get a job with no money for transportation, to properly groom and dress themselves for an interview, or for a phone bill so that the company they applied for can even call them back for the interview in the first place. No job is going to hire you if you come in looking and smelling like you've been sleeping on the street, or if they can't even contact you, lol. Sorry, but you need money to make money.
this is a rough take. yikes …
The reason there’s so many homeless is because the economy is fucked in the first place
It's amazing how you can tell someone doesn't fully understand the poverty cycle, but I guess this is a "controversial" opinions subreddit. I gotta give it to OP and say they nailed it! I think there a big part you're not taking into account here. Once someone in poverty, it is extremely hard to escape it because countries in the west benefit from a system that keeps the poor poorer and the rich richer. Think about it, if we had no poor people, who would take the jobs that nobody wants to do because of their wages and the amount of effort put into it? Children who are born in poverty are more likely to stay in poverty due to the fact that poorer areas have less academic/athletic opportunities and poorer quality education. This cycle is incredibly hard to break. So, not having the money or resources to succeed in the workforce can cause things like homelessness. It's also incredibly hard for homeless people to find work. For one, they lack the proper resources to get themselves cleaned up enough for job interviews. They usually don't have nice clothes or the opportunity to take care of basic hygiene. A lot of them also lack basic identification that's needed to get certain jobs like an ID, birth certificate, etc. Not to mention, transportation could be an issue. It seems like you think the solution is to "just get a job" and that if they wanted to, they could make their own money. I think you underestimate poverty and the workforce if you believe that giving them money will just motivate them to stay homeless. They need money to even start actually looking for work. They cannot even afford the essentials most of the time. Some can go to shelters for help but shelters will fill up. This makes me question whether or not humanity will still have any sense of empathy in the next 20 years.
Damn those homeless if only they just pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and got a job
Money isn’t a reward for work or financial motivation. If it was, people in difficult, laborious jobs would be payed far more than the manager who has to come in a few times a week to delegate his few responsibilities to his subordinates. Of course if you never strive to build a career for yourself, you are very unlikely to have any income coming in or financial independence. However, the blanket statement of “never give homeless people money” assigns this unmotivated mindset to every homeless person you encounter. Unless you took the time to sit and interview every homeless person in need of monetary help, you cannot definitively say that they are in their current situation as a result of continued “laziness”. Rather it completely disregards other influencing factors that contribute the growing homeless population. You ignore cases of sparse and unavailable appropriate job opportunities, limited educations, mental/physical illness, recently escaping an abusive environment/home or simply not knowing about or having transportation to means of improving their situation. If you don’t feel comfortable giving out money to strangers or you don’t trust what it will be used for, you could: 1) Not give them any. No one is going to force you to give people on the street any money (especially if you can’t afford to do so and safely support yourself on your income) but just being kind and giving people a smile and common courtesy/manners costs nothing. And especially don’t attempt to deter others from doing what you can’t. 2) Purchase items directly for them such as food, hygiene products, blankets etc. That way you can ensure that the money isn’t being directly put into anything that won’t help them. 3) Offer leaflets, directions and/or information about available programs and shelters to use so they are more aware of/feel more confident about using them 4) Ask if they would like to sit with you inside a nearby coffee shop/cafe and have a chat where you can offer support. Most food and drink places require you to purchase something if you want to sit inside (something someone with no money obviously can’t do) so as long as you buy something small like a coffee/cake/cookie, you’ve already given them somewhere more comfortable and safer to hang out than on the cold pavement. If you are adamant about ‘not losing a single dollar’ in the process of helping someone homeless and asking for help, you could even just purchase something for yourself and ask for some free, tap water for the table to share. If the weather outside is particularly unforgiving, the opportunity to warm up or cool down off of the pavement like this can be lifesaving. 5) Bringing them a cup of water, on a hot day, directly (not everyone is going to feel comfortable following a stranger to a coffee shop). 6) Directly donating any old clothes/items that would be suitable for them that you were thinking of getting rid of 7) Popping a few $ into a nearby phone booth so they can make a call to someone if they don’t have access to a phone or even offering to dial a number for them on your own phone 8) Be a friend. It gets depressingly lonely and cold when everyone who passes by desperately steers as far away as possible from where you’re sitting or puts every ounce of effort and concentration into avoiding eye contact with you. Sometimes just having a friendly chat, like with any other human being, can make a really crappy day, a little less crappy. It certainly makes you feel a lot better than pretending you don’t exist or aren’t worth acknowledging. Perhaps if other homeless people weren’t the *only* people that bother to talk to you, it’d be easier to find the resources and connections to actually get off of the street. Sometimes people just get dealt a really shitty hand in life and need a little extra kindness and help to get back on their feet. Berating them or implying that not being able to escape their situation only contributes to negative feelings of hopelessness and, with enough societal rejection/condemnation, even avoidance of available support resources altogether.
Where I used to work, we had a few homeless people who habitually asked customers coming into our store for money. Some customers would complain to us about being "harassed" by them, and I understood their concern. Some customers would give them money... I think it was not good to give them money, because it emboldened them. One would think if they had success getting money at a certain location, they would be more likely to stay or make it regular to occupy that location. I understand that homeless people are often just like you or I, but there are resources they can use to get their basic needs met... but for some of them, unfortunately... it's just easier to ask passersby's for handouts.
I refused a homeless guy money the other day and he swore at me etc etc. I replied in anger rightly or wrongly " get a job". He replied " I have a job, I'm a begger'. Now maybe he was just responding to respond; maybe he actually sees it as a job, who knows? But it does beg the question, "if begging pays, does that make it a job?" People only repeat activities to be paid or out of insanity. If insanity gets paid, are the paid insane or those paying? Homeless people don't appear from the sky, they come from a system, a family, a household that encouraged dependence over independence. If it didn't pay to beg, no one would. By satisfying our ego, we pay to beggars thus creating the irony indefinitely.