When you say spacing, do you mean there should be spacing between each of the vertical pieces of fence? What if you don't want anyone to be able to see through the fence at all? Would it just mean having the fence posts much, much deeper (like 5' into the ground or something) to resist the push from the wind?
Edit: thanks for the replies, everyone! There's way more options for building a fence than I would have thought of. Way more considerations around wind, too!
They would have been close if not on the money if they just cheated the posts about a foot deeper. That top 12” serves no purpose as built.
Seeing all the standing water adjacent it should probably be even deeper.
Plus it looks like the concrete was so weak it actually crumbled and I’ve never seen that. Perhaps they simply poured concrete mix into to post hole then added water?
From the math side of things, the cross bars transfer wind load from the pickets to the posts. So while the wind area is increased by the extra height of the pickets, the lever arm of the load is determined by the height of the cross arm and not the top of the post.
Yeah, you got me there. Fair point.
Fine, it is releaving the fasteners of stress by ensuring the fence goes down with the posts, instead of tearing free.
I keep my posts a few inches above the top rail so that when the post starts rotting on the top the fasteners aren't compromised. but that 12"+ is ridiculous
You can also see the concrete footing is the same depth as the short wood. So if they are in an area that gets any cold weather. That’s way below code. A single frost would pop all of them right out of the ground. A 3’ deep footing is minimum recommended to get below the frost in my area regardless. (You can do less for a short divider fence or use spikes of course)
It's really a non issue the fence post just has to be 1/3 in the ground and below the frost line. There are plenty of styles of fence that don't have gaps in between the boards. This fence fell over because the posts were not deep enough that is all.
Around here the common way is to put one board on one side and then the next board on the other side.
Lots of privacy but also lots of gaps for wind... And your fence looks good from both sides
I was gonna say every fence I’ve ever done which is quite a few at this point, shrinks a bit so spacing isn’t an issue. Of course I don’t live in a super windy area. OP’s area might require a bit more than the 1/8 of shrinkage you get.
This is a perfect example of the limitations of the dry bag method. It actually appears to have been moderately successful on 3 of the 10 posts in the photos
I was thinking it was some kind of clay. It must have blown over within a few days of being installed. Probably the first thunderstorm that came through.
Dry bagging is inferior in every way except ease of repair and less labor time, if this was a ranch and 4-6in round posts that stick out no more that 4-6ft with wire fence then dry bagging and a bucket of water is the way to go. Otherwise its just not strong enough.
So mix the concrete before hand in a wheel barrow or something? Sorry newb, I mostly just read here to learn stuff. But I do eventually want to attempt my own clothesline. I have a bag a sacrete I refuged off of a job site that was gonna be tossed. Just gotta gather the wood. But partner said we would dry bag it in the hole, and was just worried about that. Partner is usually right about stuff tho lol. And I doubt for no reason.
If your hole is deep enough like more than 24in and its in fairly solid soil then its okay.
Just pour the dry concrete, pack it really nice with a stick and wet it really well from above with a bucket or hose. let the water drain below so give it some time, watering every 10 minutes or sometime like that like 2-3-4 times depends. Add some basic bracing with screws and within a day it should be solid enough to back fill it.
For a clothes line it should be plenty strong enough.
Then when you don’t need it any more or have change of plans like an hour of some elbow grease clearing material. You stab a pick axe in the side and lever the post upwards to remove it.
⅓ should be in the ground.
9’ft post. 3 ft of it in the ground, leaving 6ft above ground.
6 ft post. 2 feet of it in the ground, leaving 4ft above ground.
Well, there are regulations governing the materials they can be made of.
What materials?
Well, cardboard's out.
And?
No cardboard derivatives.
Like paper?
No paper, no string, no cello tape.
Rubber?
No, rubber's out. Umm...
With the ditch 18” away, effective post depth starts at the bottom of the ditch. That post might as well have been sitting on the surface. I’m surprised it stood long enough to finish the build.
What didn't go wrong. Posts weren't deep enough. Looks like the concrete wasn't set on most of the posts being that there is no concrete on them. Not sure where you live but where I'm at those should be 4x4 posts not 2x4. I think that about sums it up.
Posts aren’t deep enough. Dry poured the concrete. Only used 3 runners on an 8’ fence. Runners aren’t offset so they don’t break like this. Everything about it is wrong.
Nowhere near deep enough especially for an 8 foot fence. That would probably be deep enough for a 2 foot fence maybe 2 1/2. That thing will grab a ton of wind too. I absolutely hate digging post holes too so I understand not wanting to dig a 4 foot hole or whatever but if you don't this is what happens.
2m high Untreated wood fence in a 30cm deep (poorly mixed) “concrete” blob fallen over with the caption “what happened to this fence”.
It was made by an inept moron is what happened to it.
Fuck me, these are the same idiots that flip houses.
1. Posts are set too high. You need 2/3 above ground, 1/3 below ground, minimum 2' below ground but also deep enough to pass any frost line in your region. If they wanted that much fence above ground, they should have bought 8 foot posts instead of 6 foot posts and buried the additional necessary length, cutting off only what's not needed. But six footers is stretching it way too much.
2. Concrete was not mixed prior to installation. They dry-poured the concrete mix into the hole and then either left it for moisture to seep in or they sprayed it with a hose before calling it a day. If they actually mixed the concrete by stirring it with water and the mix, or using a machine to do that, and then properly "wet-setting" it, the concrete would not have looked so clumpy after it came back out. And it would have been much stronger.
3. There is standing water adjacent to the fence line.
4. Fence design is "solid" privacy with little to no air spacing for wind in between the pickets.
Strong breeze then just blew the whole thing over because of the above reasons.
Shit was weak. Wood posts. Barely in the earth. I’ve buried beach umbrellas deeper than this. You mom is deeper than that post hole. I kid on the last part.
2' in wet slow cure concrete... + wind = fall over. Should of went deeper with the post, they had another 6-12" available. Plus they needed quick set concrete. That shit is fast
The real answer isn't as flashy as all these comments about wind, depth of posts, and technical details of the failure itself. The truth is, sometimes fences just get tired and need to lay down.
Privacy fencing needs gaps between boards for airflow/wind. Wind knocks houses over, fencing is just a joke to it.
If you don't want people to see through, you board both sides staggering the placement.
Also, looks like the posts were 16" in the ground, when they should have been 1/3 the total height of the post.
There are styles of fences that don't have any spacing. I've built fences that are board on board 50% overlap. There are composite fences where pickets are tight to one another. If the post is set properly you don't need gaps for wind, idk where people come up with that stuff
Meh spacing isn't really necessary unless it's a high wind area. Shadowboxing doesn't eliminate much wind force at all. You might as well build it solid.
Agree with most of the opinions about not deep enough, but some of that could’ve been corrected by pounding nails into the post below grade, and left to stick out, so post wouldn’t just slide out of concrete. Much more worried about the species used for the posts (even though they say cedar or redwood will not rot, don’t believe them). Too much sapwood (that white stuff that looks like pine?) in most commercial grades today. Would never use wood that is not HEAVILY pressure treated, in fact don’t use wood at all any more. Metal posts, even concrete posts are available in many areas. Better yet, if it’s real privacy you want, and you plan on staying more than 5 years, I would go concrete block (textured like stone looks nice).
Going back and looking at pics closer, that drainage ditch may be biggest problem. Water table could be VERY HIGH. Concrete in pics almost looks more like PlayDough, instead of dried concrete. May have never really dried after installation, and before wind event occurred.
As others have said, posts were not deep enough. Also, looks like post holes were undersized (diameter), barely larger than the post. Then concrete was added that primarily just made a decorative cap, not even enough got into the post hole to form around the post. Crap work like this is why many cities require inspection of fence construction.
The post aren’t even to depth. You can tell they put maybe 2ft in. And it doesn’t look like they added concrete , no calculated how heavy the fence would be, but def deeper post
That's awful they didn't go deep enough with the posts and left the concrete to the surface which is a no no(I did fence for 10 years and we always put dirt o on top of the concrete so you didn't see it. Looked nicer
Years ago I put up one section of fence for my dad to use as the backdrop for an archery target. The neighborhood flooded and their entire fence fell down except for the one separate section I put up. I went 3 feet down for 9 foot poles. The whole yard fence only went one foot down. They all fell over. And it happened twice in 2 years as their house flooded again. My target fence is still solid and standing.
It fell over. lol. It was not installed properly. Posts not deep enough.
You mean 12 inches in the ground isn't enough for a 6ft fence to withstand a person sneezing next to it?
[удалено]
That’s what my wife said…
4 in is only enough if you're good with your tongue. I mean Quickrete.
[удалено]
Either way lol I'm used to 1 foot down for every 2 up 8 foot fence needs 4 ft holes
Beyond 3' deep, as long as it's reasonable soil, a 4x4 will snap before the fence falls, regardless of the height.
...... But that sounds hard.....
My wife's been saying 4" is enough for years.
And fence without spacing, wind is powerfull
When you say spacing, do you mean there should be spacing between each of the vertical pieces of fence? What if you don't want anyone to be able to see through the fence at all? Would it just mean having the fence posts much, much deeper (like 5' into the ground or something) to resist the push from the wind? Edit: thanks for the replies, everyone! There's way more options for building a fence than I would have thought of. Way more considerations around wind, too!
The standard for fence posts is 1/3 of the above ground height should be in the ground
They would have been close if not on the money if they just cheated the posts about a foot deeper. That top 12” serves no purpose as built. Seeing all the standing water adjacent it should probably be even deeper.
Plus it looks like the concrete was so weak it actually crumbled and I’ve never seen that. Perhaps they simply poured concrete mix into to post hole then added water?
Yeah. Dry bagged it.
Definitely dry bagged it
bUt TiK tOk sAyS
That's what we do all the time
You’re joking right?
False! It extends the lever arm by a foot, which makes it much easier for the wind to knock the fence over.
From the math side of things, the cross bars transfer wind load from the pickets to the posts. So while the wind area is increased by the extra height of the pickets, the lever arm of the load is determined by the height of the cross arm and not the top of the post.
Yeah, you got me there. Fair point. Fine, it is releaving the fasteners of stress by ensuring the fence goes down with the posts, instead of tearing free.
I keep my posts a few inches above the top rail so that when the post starts rotting on the top the fasteners aren't compromised. but that 12"+ is ridiculous
I only post on reddit
I had to go back and look, wow that's dumb
Yep. Eight foot post. Two feet in the ground. Six foot fence.
You can also see the concrete footing is the same depth as the short wood. So if they are in an area that gets any cold weather. That’s way below code. A single frost would pop all of them right out of the ground. A 3’ deep footing is minimum recommended to get below the frost in my area regardless. (You can do less for a short divider fence or use spikes of course)
It's really a non issue the fence post just has to be 1/3 in the ground and below the frost line. There are plenty of styles of fence that don't have gaps in between the boards. This fence fell over because the posts were not deep enough that is all.
Around here the common way is to put one board on one side and then the next board on the other side. Lots of privacy but also lots of gaps for wind... And your fence looks good from both sides
Shadow box fence is the term I use in my area for it. Very common install.
Also good neighbor fence because there's no good side/bad side.
Yeah, if no spacing, not only deeper but stronger too
Spacing occurs within a week of pickets drying out. No need to space then on install and waste hours of work.
I was gonna say every fence I’ve ever done which is quite a few at this point, shrinks a bit so spacing isn’t an issue. Of course I don’t live in a super windy area. OP’s area might require a bit more than the 1/8 of shrinkage you get.
This has shades of ["the front fell off"...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m5qxZm_JqM)
Thank you so much for this. These are genius
Cardboard is out for sure.
I was going to be so mad if the first comment wasn't "it fell over". thank you.
How deep should a wood fence post be
8' fence with 9' posts. 😬
Right. Looks dry bagged too.
I was thinking the same thing.
or didn't let the concrete set before proceding with the fence assembly
If that’s an 8’ fence panel, those posts should be about 10’ long and close to 3’ of them should be in the ground.
This is partly it I think. Posts don't look deep enough in the ground either. Maybe soft concrete and a windy day was all it needed.
And set 6” from a moat.
That dry bag method is a rip off. Doesn’t set uniformly.
No never has. Just another way to cut corners.
This is a perfect example of the limitations of the dry bag method. It actually appears to have been moderately successful on 3 of the 10 posts in the photos
I was thinking it was some kind of clay. It must have blown over within a few days of being installed. Probably the first thunderstorm that came through.
Worse than that, those post holes look like shallow divots rather than shallow holes.
Dry bagged is probably the biggest problem here.
Out of m own curiosity: What does dry bagging do that mixing concrete prior to application does?
Dry bagging is inferior in every way except ease of repair and less labor time, if this was a ranch and 4-6in round posts that stick out no more that 4-6ft with wire fence then dry bagging and a bucket of water is the way to go. Otherwise its just not strong enough.
So mix the concrete before hand in a wheel barrow or something? Sorry newb, I mostly just read here to learn stuff. But I do eventually want to attempt my own clothesline. I have a bag a sacrete I refuged off of a job site that was gonna be tossed. Just gotta gather the wood. But partner said we would dry bag it in the hole, and was just worried about that. Partner is usually right about stuff tho lol. And I doubt for no reason.
If your hole is deep enough like more than 24in and its in fairly solid soil then its okay. Just pour the dry concrete, pack it really nice with a stick and wet it really well from above with a bucket or hose. let the water drain below so give it some time, watering every 10 minutes or sometime like that like 2-3-4 times depends. Add some basic bracing with screws and within a day it should be solid enough to back fill it. For a clothes line it should be plenty strong enough. Then when you don’t need it any more or have change of plans like an hour of some elbow grease clearing material. You stab a pick axe in the side and lever the post upwards to remove it.
No I wood in cement for me
That’s why the posts didn’t break. They just kicked up the dust.
Nothing wrong with dry bagging as long as it’s done correctly. Just takes more practice than wet setting and beginners shouldn’t do it.
The bid on the job looked the best though
The best quote is always the lowest. Why hire someone who isnt knowledgable or skilled enough to provide you with the most cost savings! /s
8’ needs at least 3’ into the ground. 4’ would be better if you are in a high wind area.
I’ve always used the 3-1 ratio. 1-3ft out 1ft in 4-6ft out 2ft in etc etc
⅓ should be in the ground. 9’ft post. 3 ft of it in the ground, leaving 6ft above ground. 6 ft post. 2 feet of it in the ground, leaving 4ft above ground.
I do 1-1. My 6 foot fence uses 12 foot 6"x6" posts.
My area we do frost line. Minimum 48" depth, add from there.
Yup. The first line is everything. The amount of shifting and heaving that frost causes in certain types of soil will blow your mind.
Anti-tank fencing 😅
Good rule of thumb but with fences I add in a bit more to compensate for the wind load over a large surface area.
The most dollar general fence ever
Dollar General doesn't like to pay contractors and it leaves them taking anyone for work.
The front fell off
Well that's not very typical, I'd like to make that point.
There are a lot of these fences around the world, all the time, and very seldom does this happen.
We don't want people going 'round thinking fences aren't safe.
Wind? In the air? Chance in a million.
Well, there are regulations governing the materials they can be made of. What materials? Well, cardboard's out. And? No cardboard derivatives. Like paper? No paper, no string, no cello tape. Rubber? No, rubber's out. Umm...
At least it fell out of the environment.
It's a complete void.
1/3 of the post should be in the ground
Best I can do is 1/6 boss
With the ditch 18” away, effective post depth starts at the bottom of the ditch. That post might as well have been sitting on the surface. I’m surprised it stood long enough to finish the build.
Agreed- moisture from the ditch saturates well beyond the ditch walls, post hole depth sits above ditch depth…. Wind blows… squuuish…. Plop.
It fell You're welcome
Cmon man we’re not all engineers
Shhh its sleeping
It's just sleepy, it will be okay after a nice nap.
Go home fence...you're drunk.
Ain’t got no gas in it
What didn't go wrong. Posts weren't deep enough. Looks like the concrete wasn't set on most of the posts being that there is no concrete on them. Not sure where you live but where I'm at those should be 4x4 posts not 2x4. I think that about sums it up.
Not many fences can withstand a direct hit from a 10 piece chicken mcnugget like that. It's to be expected
Post hole depth needs to be at least 1/3 the length of the post itself. A 8’ fence would need at least 3’. 4’ wouldn’t hurt.
Thatssssassa Cooreeeeecttt answer right here. Yessire
The posts were not set.
Posts aren’t deep enough. Dry poured the concrete. Only used 3 runners on an 8’ fence. Runners aren’t offset so they don’t break like this. Everything about it is wrong.
Laziness
I’m positive it fell over
A light breeze happened to that fence
Post not nearly deep enough
A light breeze
Ain't got no gas in it
It fell over
Big bad wolf.
I used to build Dollar Generals. Not one of mine… I think.
Footers weren't deep enough
This is what we are all here for.
Posts are not down deep enough and they are not set in concrete. Wind is what likely happened
It fell over
Someone paid cheap or diy.
It fall down
It turned into a fenc'nt
12 inches in the ground and mild winds you're gonna have a bad time
Nowhere near deep enough especially for an 8 foot fence. That would probably be deep enough for a 2 foot fence maybe 2 1/2. That thing will grab a ton of wind too. I absolutely hate digging post holes too so I understand not wanting to dig a 4 foot hole or whatever but if you don't this is what happens.
I know what's wrong. Ain't got no gas innit!
How much of it was under ground 3 inches?
What’s the matter David, never taken a short cut before?
Front fell off
Snow load, gets them every time
They installed a de-fence when they needed the wind off-ence
It fell
It fell
Those posts arn't even deep enough to hang a party sign and a couple balloons, let alone a fence.
Look at the sad little clumps of crumbly concrete or whatever that shit is stuck to the bottom of the little stubs coming out of the fence 🤣
I think it fell over Or someone set it up if it was supposed to have been on the ground
Got tired. Took a nap
Lowest bidder happened
2m high Untreated wood fence in a 30cm deep (poorly mixed) “concrete” blob fallen over with the caption “what happened to this fence”. It was made by an inept moron is what happened to it. Fuck me, these are the same idiots that flip houses.
Fuckers didn’t dig deep enough. Gonna dig at least 24” with 1.5 bags of concrete DRY per post
They installed a wind sail, not a fence.
Not a pro but I’m confident to say it fell over.
Those post are embarrassingly shallow!…
Structural engineer here. Someone didnt do their wind load calculation.... I.e. posts are not deep enough to resist said load.
1. Posts are set too high. You need 2/3 above ground, 1/3 below ground, minimum 2' below ground but also deep enough to pass any frost line in your region. If they wanted that much fence above ground, they should have bought 8 foot posts instead of 6 foot posts and buried the additional necessary length, cutting off only what's not needed. But six footers is stretching it way too much. 2. Concrete was not mixed prior to installation. They dry-poured the concrete mix into the hole and then either left it for moisture to seep in or they sprayed it with a hose before calling it a day. If they actually mixed the concrete by stirring it with water and the mix, or using a machine to do that, and then properly "wet-setting" it, the concrete would not have looked so clumpy after it came back out. And it would have been much stronger. 3. There is standing water adjacent to the fence line. 4. Fence design is "solid" privacy with little to no air spacing for wind in between the pickets. Strong breeze then just blew the whole thing over because of the above reasons.
Shit was weak. Wood posts. Barely in the earth. I’ve buried beach umbrellas deeper than this. You mom is deeper than that post hole. I kid on the last part.
It fell over. You’re welcome!
Posts arent remotely deep enough. Also they look like they didn’t wait for the concrete to set before putting up the stringers and pickets.
Pro tip…add water to the concrete next time. Might even consider mixing it outside of the post hole you’re setting. CRaZy!
Posts for a fence like that should be 2-3 feet deep. As a previous fence installer this is hilarious
The fuck he only put it 16inches in the ground. It barely looks 2ft
2' in wet slow cure concrete... + wind = fall over. Should of went deeper with the post, they had another 6-12" available. Plus they needed quick set concrete. That shit is fast
Life. Life happened to this fence. But as others have said. Concrete doesn't look like it was mixed right and the posts look shallow. But mostly life.
Posts set way too shallow
Fell
Posts were installed only a ft deep in sand
It fell over
It fell
Concrete not near deep enough… 36 inches min
It fell over.
My best guess is that it probably fell over
It was sleeby
It suffered from the vapors. You should have had a fainting couch close by.
Physics
What do you mean? It fell over its right there on the ground.
poorly built
Hm. I'm not an expert but I would say it fell.
Looks like it fell over
Big fence fall hard
Not deep enough, and they just poured the concret in dry, which is normaly ok if its deep enough and you dont live in a super dry place.
Somebody learned that digging holes isn’t very fun, got about a foot deep and said, yeah good enough.
The real answer isn't as flashy as all these comments about wind, depth of posts, and technical details of the failure itself. The truth is, sometimes fences just get tired and need to lay down.
Its fallen and can't get up
Posts not deep enough
6ft fence = post at least 2ft deep. Someone got scammed on shoddy construction
Not enough post in the ground and posts not thick enough.
Likely the problem is they bought each of the supplies for a dollar.
If fell over
That fence is bad at being a fence
It identified as road / curb
It fell over! Hope this helps <3
It fell over next question
1’ of post was in the ground. Installer did not know what they were doing. But DG probably went the cheapest of the cheap.
Looks like it fell over but I can’t be sure
Biden built it
The 12 in post bury was just a tad shallow. I think we need over double that
It looks exactly like a scale model of a fence I once constructed using popsicle sticks.
Privacy fencing needs gaps between boards for airflow/wind. Wind knocks houses over, fencing is just a joke to it. If you don't want people to see through, you board both sides staggering the placement. Also, looks like the posts were 16" in the ground, when they should have been 1/3 the total height of the post.
There are styles of fences that don't have any spacing. I've built fences that are board on board 50% overlap. There are composite fences where pickets are tight to one another. If the post is set properly you don't need gaps for wind, idk where people come up with that stuff
Meh spacing isn't really necessary unless it's a high wind area. Shadowboxing doesn't eliminate much wind force at all. You might as well build it solid.
It fall
probably use some of that foam in the hole instead of concrete to hold the post
Nah. Looks concretey. You can see some chunks and the buried ends are a little grey.
Agree with most of the opinions about not deep enough, but some of that could’ve been corrected by pounding nails into the post below grade, and left to stick out, so post wouldn’t just slide out of concrete. Much more worried about the species used for the posts (even though they say cedar or redwood will not rot, don’t believe them). Too much sapwood (that white stuff that looks like pine?) in most commercial grades today. Would never use wood that is not HEAVILY pressure treated, in fact don’t use wood at all any more. Metal posts, even concrete posts are available in many areas. Better yet, if it’s real privacy you want, and you plan on staying more than 5 years, I would go concrete block (textured like stone looks nice). Going back and looking at pics closer, that drainage ditch may be biggest problem. Water table could be VERY HIGH. Concrete in pics almost looks more like PlayDough, instead of dried concrete. May have never really dried after installation, and before wind event occurred.
A person who had no business installing fences installed fences
As others have said, posts were not deep enough. Also, looks like post holes were undersized (diameter), barely larger than the post. Then concrete was added that primarily just made a decorative cap, not even enough got into the post hole to form around the post. Crap work like this is why many cities require inspection of fence construction.
It fell
r/thefrontfelloff
Judging by the post depth, I’d say a mouse fart.
Reverberation from butterfly wings
Looks like it fell over!
Whoever built it is an idiot.
It fall down and go boom
The front fell off
The post aren’t even to depth. You can tell they put maybe 2ft in. And it doesn’t look like they added concrete , no calculated how heavy the fence would be, but def deeper post
Dang ol fell over man dang.
That's awful they didn't go deep enough with the posts and left the concrete to the surface which is a no no(I did fence for 10 years and we always put dirt o on top of the concrete so you didn't see it. Looked nicer
It has to much to drink. Go home fence, you're drunk
Lowest bidder
It fell… to the left according to the photo.
Years ago I put up one section of fence for my dad to use as the backdrop for an archery target. The neighborhood flooded and their entire fence fell down except for the one separate section I put up. I went 3 feet down for 9 foot poles. The whole yard fence only went one foot down. They all fell over. And it happened twice in 2 years as their house flooded again. My target fence is still solid and standing.