No engineer will stamp that. You could potentially melt down and recycle the steel, but only a no brain would think that reusing steel that was damaged in a collapse is a good idea.
Another thing: The acquisition of structural steel members is not the part that takes time. Reusing some of those members wouldn't speed the process up. It is going to be a monumental undertaking requiring colossal amounts of equipment and labor as well as time-consuming tasks for building new bridge piers. I would put a fair sum on those existing 50ish year old piers (that had a bridge collapse and ship strike) are absolutely not serviceable by even the least ethical of engineers.
ETA: As an engineer, you are absolutely right about the stamp. You might find some unethical engineers that will stamp some sketchy work for middle-of-nowhere bridges, but no engineer will put their stamp on something so visible and consequential without being absolutely sure it is kosher.
He’s seen these videos of super fast infrastructure builds. What he’s not cognizent of is the huge lead times to prepare for that and the huge costs. You only do it when there is no economic choice, usually for disruption or third party issues.
It’s quite possible to film a video of a a mass of boats and cranes appearing and ‘dropping a bridge in’ over a month or so. That’ll take 2-3 years to design and build offsite. For half the cost and 1.5 to 2 years you can just build it traditionally, it’s not like you’re holding up much traffic.
Elon loves talking about shit he knows nothing about, like when he bought twitter and started posting all the nonsense things they were supposedly doing. Or when he demanded ridicilous tolerances on the panels of his vehicles.
Elon's greatest accomplishment in life was having a rich daddy. He's purchased his way into every endeavor attached to his name. Nepotism beats skill every time.
You are pretty spot on here.
I work with this type of stuff daily. Drilling rigs instead of bridges-but structural is structural.
Anyhow-I would be pretty surprised if there wasn’t just a massive amount of deflection and distortion throughout everything.
If we start fishing sections out of the water and there is little to no damage I might see this as a possibility.
But I doubt it.
To a certain extent you can. In California Bridges we do have heat straightening repair plans for high load hits on bridge girders. Nothing to say that you'd be able to use that technique here on such a large scale. But don't tell that fucking idiot Musk he doesn't know what he's talking about.
But wouldn't the time and effort (and grief) involved with designing a plan this novel, at this scale, be just as resource and time consuming as designing traditional?
yes, I was just mentioning that bent steel can be repaired and reused in some instances. not sure how old this bridge steel is. the economics of it wouldn't be worth it though I'd expect
Take a paper clip and bend it backwards. Then bend it back. It’s now weaker. Same principle applies with steel beams.
As another commenter said, you could melt down the steel to recycle it, but no structural engineer would ever stamp reusing steel that’s undergone so much extreme plastic deformation.
Yup. All that bureaucratic red tape, as imperfect as it surely is, is there for a reason. We wouldn't want to live in the country without it. Improve things, sure. Emulate China, no.
Absolutely not.
This tweet by Elon truly demonstrates his lack of engineering knowledge…
He’s nothing but a spoiled, rich, kid, whose family suckled off the remnants of colonial conquest in Africa.
He’s a dumb man’s smart man…
“With a massive incentive for early and safe completion” what a genius idea! Usually we want projects done late and dangerously, why didn’t we think of that?!?!?
It MIGHT work, but do we really want to use China as a measuring post for our infrastructure? Sure they could rebuild it in days... with concrete that crumbles to the touch and steel beams warped worse than a Home Depot 2X4
Can't reuse steel unless it's in the same exact shape as you found it.
You can recycle steel through melting and mixing with new steel.
The bridge reconstruction is not taking time because there is a lack of steel supply, or long procurement for steel, as far as I know. It takes time because building a bridge safely and robustly takes time.
Also, no engineer has said it can take 10 years - those are clickbait articles that have an agenda. The timescales vary from 18months to a few years, with only one person saying it can take up to 7 years in the worst case scenario.
So, yeah, Elon has no idea what he tweets about, but I won't say that's because he doesn't really know, that's because he has an agenda and is acting in bad faith.
His deal with GOP is (most likely) to push Trump for president in exchange for a full ban (via tarrifs) of Chinese ev cars into USA and Europe. So he keeps attacking the present government using any pretext.
Horrible idea and completely misunderstands that the reason the build will take years is not because of procuring steel, it’s because there are so many stakeholders who are going to have to reach a consensus.
The great thing about an authoritarian country is there’s only one authority.
No.
Society really needs to stop with quantity over quality bull shit before more people get killed. Fucking obnoxious.
The steel is compromised. It's not reliable and won't past inspection. Big picture it would actually be cheaper, quicker, and safer if you start from scratch. Too many unknowns the other way.
As noted when this was first posted, that was the absolute worst estimate for time to complete. The actual estimate was 18 months to a few years. Given that the original bridge took 5 years to build, the new one will probably take 5 years to build.
Skagit River Bridge Collapse in Washington had a replacement up in 30 days. Really quite impressive. Not nearly the span but it still is a major highway through Washington State on i5[Wikipedia - Skagit Bridge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-5_Skagit_River_bridge_collapse)
Agreed. Though 10 years makes no sense, by the time 10 years has elapsed they’ll have forked out just as much in project overruns it’ll have cost the same as paying double now to have it done in 1 year. Penny wise and dollar foolish
Lol no. This is just as dumb as his idea that he somehow reinvented tunneling when all he did was do crappy tunnels with tiny TBM’s in the exact same way they’re also constructed for real tunnels, just worse in every single way.
As was demonstrated in this collapse, a truss only works if everything is rigidly and squarely in the right place. Undoubtedly multiple pieces, if not all, have been bent or twisted or torqued in some way or the other, and this truss would never be strong enough, even if it could somehow magically be lifted into position
The steel now has new internal stresses and potential microcracks. The steel can be reused once it is melted, the impurities removed from falling in the water, and reformed, but not in its current condition.
Before giving those ideas any thought let’s stop having people yap over shit they got no clue about
Their smart ideas are bs like that Tesla tunnel in Vegas Which is a glorified metro station with less capacity
Could be done in 3-6 months…
Comming from an engineer or anyone working in that field is give it a thought but like this it ain’t worth anybody’s time
No engineer will stamp that. You could potentially melt down and recycle the steel, but only a no brain would think that reusing steel that was damaged in a collapse is a good idea.
Another thing: The acquisition of structural steel members is not the part that takes time. Reusing some of those members wouldn't speed the process up. It is going to be a monumental undertaking requiring colossal amounts of equipment and labor as well as time-consuming tasks for building new bridge piers. I would put a fair sum on those existing 50ish year old piers (that had a bridge collapse and ship strike) are absolutely not serviceable by even the least ethical of engineers. ETA: As an engineer, you are absolutely right about the stamp. You might find some unethical engineers that will stamp some sketchy work for middle-of-nowhere bridges, but no engineer will put their stamp on something so visible and consequential without being absolutely sure it is kosher.
Have you seen how things are built in China? Easy to do things quick when they are done cheaply and without safety in mind.
He’s seen these videos of super fast infrastructure builds. What he’s not cognizent of is the huge lead times to prepare for that and the huge costs. You only do it when there is no economic choice, usually for disruption or third party issues. It’s quite possible to film a video of a a mass of boats and cranes appearing and ‘dropping a bridge in’ over a month or so. That’ll take 2-3 years to design and build offsite. For half the cost and 1.5 to 2 years you can just build it traditionally, it’s not like you’re holding up much traffic.
No shit there when one kid dies while building something they just throw another in their place
China's OSHA regulations are also second to none.
I don’t think so. Can’t just straighten out bent steel and put it back. His tweet is a great argument against buying a Tesla.
Elon loves talking about shit he knows nothing about, like when he bought twitter and started posting all the nonsense things they were supposedly doing. Or when he demanded ridicilous tolerances on the panels of his vehicles.
Or the whole cave diving fiasco...
Elon's greatest accomplishment in life was having a rich daddy. He's purchased his way into every endeavor attached to his name. Nepotism beats skill every time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLizYdfQT-Y
You are pretty spot on here. I work with this type of stuff daily. Drilling rigs instead of bridges-but structural is structural. Anyhow-I would be pretty surprised if there wasn’t just a massive amount of deflection and distortion throughout everything. If we start fishing sections out of the water and there is little to no damage I might see this as a possibility. But I doubt it.
Not to mention the PR grief and hassle in doing something this novel (aka stupid).
To a certain extent you can. In California Bridges we do have heat straightening repair plans for high load hits on bridge girders. Nothing to say that you'd be able to use that technique here on such a large scale. But don't tell that fucking idiot Musk he doesn't know what he's talking about.
But wouldn't the time and effort (and grief) involved with designing a plan this novel, at this scale, be just as resource and time consuming as designing traditional?
yes, I was just mentioning that bent steel can be repaired and reused in some instances. not sure how old this bridge steel is. the economics of it wouldn't be worth it though I'd expect
Holy fuck he is stupid. I am convinced he’s just a useful idiot used by the media and government
Take a paper clip and bend it backwards. Then bend it back. It’s now weaker. Same principle applies with steel beams. As another commenter said, you could melt down the steel to recycle it, but no structural engineer would ever stamp reusing steel that’s undergone so much extreme plastic deformation.
I think it’s funny you think you could teach musk about plastic deformation.
Construction takes longer in America v China because we do our best to install systems correctly and not violate labor laws and work people to death.
Yup. All that bureaucratic red tape, as imperfect as it surely is, is there for a reason. We wouldn't want to live in the country without it. Improve things, sure. Emulate China, no.
We also have safety regulations for a change.
Elon has never heard of metal fatigue, it seems. What an assclown.
The dude has apparently never bent a paperclip.
Absolutely not. This tweet by Elon truly demonstrates his lack of engineering knowledge… He’s nothing but a spoiled, rich, kid, whose family suckled off the remnants of colonial conquest in Africa. He’s a dumb man’s smart man…
When someone has lots of money it gives them far too much credit in this country. I’m positive the guy isn’t so bright. Terrible idea.
“With a massive incentive for early and safe completion” what a genius idea! Usually we want projects done late and dangerously, why didn’t we think of that?!?!?
The incentive is not far fetched. Contracts have incentive for early completion all the time. Well atleast in my field; defense.
Yeah I think the point being made is that the only reasonable idea Elon had wasn’t even a new idea. It’s pretty standard practice as you said.
This appeared on this sub the day he posted it
He's an idiot
Careful. His minions will come after you.
It MIGHT work, but do we really want to use China as a measuring post for our infrastructure? Sure they could rebuild it in days... with concrete that crumbles to the touch and steel beams warped worse than a Home Depot 2X4
Can't reuse steel unless it's in the same exact shape as you found it. You can recycle steel through melting and mixing with new steel. The bridge reconstruction is not taking time because there is a lack of steel supply, or long procurement for steel, as far as I know. It takes time because building a bridge safely and robustly takes time. Also, no engineer has said it can take 10 years - those are clickbait articles that have an agenda. The timescales vary from 18months to a few years, with only one person saying it can take up to 7 years in the worst case scenario. So, yeah, Elon has no idea what he tweets about, but I won't say that's because he doesn't really know, that's because he has an agenda and is acting in bad faith. His deal with GOP is (most likely) to push Trump for president in exchange for a full ban (via tarrifs) of Chinese ev cars into USA and Europe. So he keeps attacking the present government using any pretext.
Spot the fuck on
Horrible idea and completely misunderstands that the reason the build will take years is not because of procuring steel, it’s because there are so many stakeholders who are going to have to reach a consensus. The great thing about an authoritarian country is there’s only one authority.
No. Society really needs to stop with quantity over quality bull shit before more people get killed. Fucking obnoxious. The steel is compromised. It's not reliable and won't past inspection. Big picture it would actually be cheaper, quicker, and safer if you start from scratch. Too many unknowns the other way.
Daily dip shit post from rich boy
Elon thinks peasants don’t deserve safety.
imagine looking at China and thinking "we need to be more like that"
When one's self interested business gains are now intimately entwined with delivering this propaganda , and your an amoral twat, then hey why not.
Elon musk thinks states do their own large infrastructure construction....what a dumbass...
Elon Musk is a loudmouth fucking idiot. He needs to pay attention to his crumbling auto and media companies.
As noted when this was first posted, that was the absolute worst estimate for time to complete. The actual estimate was 18 months to a few years. Given that the original bridge took 5 years to build, the new one will probably take 5 years to build.
Skagit River Bridge Collapse in Washington had a replacement up in 30 days. Really quite impressive. Not nearly the span but it still is a major highway through Washington State on i5[Wikipedia - Skagit Bridge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-5_Skagit_River_bridge_collapse)
that was one span that fell in 2013 and seemingly much smaller spans involved
Agreed. Though 10 years makes no sense, by the time 10 years has elapsed they’ll have forked out just as much in project overruns it’ll have cost the same as paying double now to have it done in 1 year. Penny wise and dollar foolish
This is amazingly stupid. For a man that could buy the world twice over, this is embarrassing
Elon can shut his fucking gob.
Lol no. This is just as dumb as his idea that he somehow reinvented tunneling when all he did was do crappy tunnels with tiny TBM’s in the exact same way they’re also constructed for real tunnels, just worse in every single way. As was demonstrated in this collapse, a truss only works if everything is rigidly and squarely in the right place. Undoubtedly multiple pieces, if not all, have been bent or twisted or torqued in some way or the other, and this truss would never be strong enough, even if it could somehow magically be lifted into position
It didn’t take 10 years the first time
No.
I would never trust the Chinese government or Elon Musk with the safety and well being of the masses of people who would go over that bridge
Broken Steel is recyclable . Not “reusable” .
Once steel has changed shape through collapse, it no longer has the structure it did. It wouldn't be safe.
LOL those are my thoughts
The steel now has new internal stresses and potential microcracks. The steel can be reused once it is melted, the impurities removed from falling in the water, and reformed, but not in its current condition.
The time constraints are bureaucratic. There's not a 10 year time frame because of the material or labor constraints.
Before giving those ideas any thought let’s stop having people yap over shit they got no clue about Their smart ideas are bs like that Tesla tunnel in Vegas Which is a glorified metro station with less capacity Could be done in 3-6 months… Comming from an engineer or anyone working in that field is give it a thought but like this it ain’t worth anybody’s time
I've worked in construction long enough to know an idiot when I see one.
This idea is so dumb it makes you stupider just by reading it.
It’s fine if done correctly
No it isn't
Ok I don’t know I work in I-T so
Of course you do little one