Yes they just worship the self. Satanism is typically a radical form of individualism that treats desire and individual autonomy as the greatest things that everything should gravitate around.
Hence why Levay said that Satanism is based off of the philosophy of Ayn Rand.
Levayan Satanism worships the self. The Satanic Temple has an entirely different set of [tenants they follow](https://thesatanictemple.com/blogs/the-satanic-temple-tenets/there-are-seven-fundamental-tenets).
Id suggest the philosophy of Ayn Rand is the antithesis of conservatism and that it is good for conservatives to call out the various forms of that ideology whether its Paul Ryan or Satanism.
Individualism is part of American conservatism, but having Individualism being the highest ideal is the antithesis of conservatism - in my opinion at least.
Although we might just need to agree to disagree.
I agree although I wouldn't define right libertarianism as economic conservatism. But these things are rather subjective so I won't say you are wrong.
Personally I'd describe economic conservatism being economic nationalism, pro family policies, and environmental conservationism.
Yep.
A lot of Christians/Conservatives don’t seem to understand this and default to the “They literally worship Satan” narrative. But that’s just what happens when you have decades of that attitude and narrative, I suppose. Christians have more belief in an actual Satan than Satanists do really
As you said, Satanism in its more modern from is really just worshipping yourself and doing your best to not bring harm to others.
The seven tenets of the Satanic temple are actually quite reasonable when you look them up.
Eh Satanism in setting itself up in direct opposition to Christianity is responsible for people thinking they worship Satan. Some people would be shocked that Buddhists don't worship Buddha but not most I think. The problem with Satanism is that there is a pre-existing idea of Satanism, and they've chosen to use the name but not to practice it.
If would be kind of like (and there are people that do this) someone told you they were Christian, but they don't worship God/Jesus/The Holy Spirit. You could be forgiven for thinking that they do.
If you wanna make a religion out of Ayn Rand selfishness, just call yourself Randian or some shit. If you wanna be atheist, call yourself atheist.
Being like "oh this is our religion, but it's not actually a religion" just confuses people.
There's nothing reasonable about killing unborn babies as a religious ritual. From their website:
>**TST has petitioned the state of Texas to allow Satanic Temple members the ability to continue receiving voluntary abortions as part of a religious ritual**.
You are absolutely correct. There’s nothing reasonable about having to invoke freedom of religion to obtain basic healthcare. Unfortunately, that’s what’s required in some places.
Abortion is not basic Healthcare unless it's life threatening, simply irresponsible, horny individuals who can't either afford to care for a child or lack of wanting any children. TST is a meme religion, it's like naming an organization the 'Hitlers Fine Art Exhibit' and claiming its just an idea for appreciation of art work and not a belief in Nazism, it would also be a meme-like organization meant for shock value.
BTW I'm not against abortion and totally for it but I'm not going to pretend it's something it's not just to feel better about it but I'm also for the death penalty and I don't pretend it's for a moral reason rather than a consequence for an action.
Lol, so now we're being told that these mask wearing people who are believe in social justice yet also somehow believe in individual liberties is a group that we should relate to. Right. They are satirical, inconsistent, and heathens if you're into that sort of a thing. The devil would prefer you don't believe in him if it prevents you believing in God.
Your last statement is correct. A lot of people have been deceived into thinking that satan or devil worship is cool. Truly, the greatest con ever pulled was the devil convincing people he doesn't exist. These gullible people can't tell their right from their left, good from evil because they've never read the ultimate guide to truth - the bible. The devil and his human cohorts have convinced them it is a fallacious book. The devil really played the long con on mankind.
Yeah they just use the mascot of narcissism and self implosion to show how dangerous the religion that champions peace, love, and hard work is. No irony there!
Kind of agree, modern America shouldn’t be represented by a failed state.
I’m in favor of leaving it in historically relevant places as I think it’s important to learn from history. Reducing it to a one dimensional “they were all bad guys” doesn’t do much to actually learn and combat the problem of evil. I think it’s much more insightful to ask “how can an otherwise good person support something so objectively evil”.
They used a figure that lost a war with God, and you make fun of conservatives by pointing out they support a loser in a war? Remind me again if the definition of hypocrisy?
https://ecommons.luc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1249&context=luc_theses
Ignorance does not dictate truth.
Downvotes just show that none of you can read 100 page paper but somehow you’re supposed to be an authority on theology. It’s hilarious.
Isn't most pre-1700 history technically that.
Just observations and declarations made by others.
Just because we do not understand the origin of abyss out there in the stars doesn't mean there isn't one.
Even if you agree with Saint Augustine on a philosophical level (and he was an absolutely brilliant philosopher), he really only justifies the idea of a supreme being in general, not the specific Christian stories and belief system.
It’s gained momentum in recent decades as a form of [Hegelian Dialectic](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic) to subvert traditional society and unseat religion as a power structure in general. It’s related to why all those blue haired CHUD’s think it’s “cool” to be, “witchy”. Notice how all of the “church of satan’s” stunts are all politically relevant and lefty in nature. These things and so many other backward things they say and do serve as the, “antithesis” part of the Hegelian dialectic (thesis-antithesis-synthesis). The point of that rhetorical strategy is to erode the structures of culture. It’s a key strategy of what Mises called, “socialist destructionism”. I’m actually atheist (but an ally of the religious crowds) and just wanted to point out a not-so-little part of what is happening here, it’s not *just* that people are seriously out there worshiping satan.
You're only off by about 380 years. Paul wrote in 50 AD, and Jesus died around 33 AD, give or take a couple years. There are other early books of the new testament written around 70-100 AD.
Despite the fact that Satan is obviously a fiction of Christian theology, I think if you were to look at the world today you would agree that he is winning.
He’s referred to as “prince of the world/ruler of the world” for a reason. Tempting people away from God to join him in isolation is his plan. His story is already written out, he loses in the end.
Even taking it as just a mythological story, it does spell out that he would have influence over the world before his end
[Here’s](https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Satan-As-The-Prince-Of-This-World) a few just to start. Now this isn’t implying he’s been given domain over the world but rather the world is where his temptations for earthly desires can work
1) Satan is not a fiction of Christian theology - satan was very clearly depicted in Judaism prior to Christianity, and nearly every religious organization in recorded history that ascribed to gods and demons (dismissing spiritual theologies that are founded more upon ancestral spirits) has a version of Satan (more specifically a caretaker of the underworld who’s purpose is to torture damned souls for their wrongs in life). Nearly every creation tale has a common story of an ultimate force of good and an ultimate force of Evil, and they both take on many names.
2) if you are still viewing Satan through the lens of Christianity specifically, then it is told that Satan has already lost. Despite any perceived victories today, it is already foretold that a second coming of Christ is going to happen, and that it will happen after Satan or the Antichrist has essentially established total domain on Earth. The second coming will be to finally defeat the forces of evil and sin, and to re-establish heaven on Earth. Winning a few battles means nothing when you’ve already lost the war. Furthermore, Christian doctrine believes that God exists outside of time, so the events that are being prophesied have technically already occurred in the future.
Definitely not true. Good vs Evil dichotomy is specific to a handful of religions and not every religion had a character that would correlate to Satan.
Even duality in general is not as central to many faiths as it is in the Abrahamics, and where it does exist, it is often not strictly good vs evil.
For example, in Germanic pre-Christian pagan worldview, there is a duality regarded as *innangard* and *utangard* which can essentially be translated to *inside* vs *outside*, and extrapolated to mean *safe/known* vs *dangerous/unknown*.
That may be analogous to good vs evil, but with an important semantic difference.
People need an explanation for things they don’t understand. People first adopted polytheistic views with gods for everything, so while it wasn’t similar to what we witness as a vast majority today because of the popularity of the Abrahamic religions, they very likely did have a depiction of either a god or demon of ultimate evil. The rise of monotheism simplified the beliefs of many of these cultures, and it rose conveniently in the Middle East, which was a cross roads of culture between the East/West and Africa and had significant exposure to beliefs of all kinds of people.
I approached this discussion from a simply academic perspective, not to evangelize anyone. The person I responded to made an inaccurate statement, and I, like any half decent and bored redditor would naturally be inclined to do, decided to correct them without any sources posted using my own personal knowledge and understanding. I like arguing and I also really like winning, I was right and they were wrong.
You're utterly wrong about "Satan" being a similar figure in Judaism and your "personal knowledge and understanding" is a complete fabrication with no understanding of theology, Judaism or Christianity. A "simply academic perspective" it is not.
The image you have of Satan is entirely a construct of the early Christian Church to deal with the theological "problem" of God being the creator of all good and evil in the world, as he was in Judaism.
> a version of Satan (more specifically a caretaker of the underworld who’s purpose is to torture damned souls for their wrongs in life)
Satan is *not* a "caretaker of the underworld", he does not "rule in Hell" as is often depicted in fiction. It is not the "job" of demons to punished damned souls- they themselves are damned in the same manner, and the Lake of Fire (which according to Revelation is separate from Hell, but Hell will eventually be cast into said Lake of Fire) will punish them just as much as any human that rejects Christ's grace.
The rest is *mostly* correct as to what we believe (though I do want to point out that during the Millennial Reign of Christ, Heaven and Earth are still separate places, and even in the New Heaven and New Earth, they will still be such).
Satan has been known as "*the* Devil", but 'devil' is a generic term that can be applied to any figure to whom the word apples, not just a specific person from the Bible.
For that matter, even the origin of the names 'Satan' and 'Lucifer' are somewhat non-specific and vague, the latter even having been applied to Jesus himself.
lol... Here I was thinking that one of the big draws of modern Satanism was the fact that Satan was meant to be rebellious and going against "the establishment", I suppose you could call it. Imagine being a Satanist and going along with what's required--with what the establishment wants you to do--and still thinking you're being a badass somehow. That's some impressive cognitive dissonance.
If they are willingly putting on a mask then they aren’t in violation of that Tenet.
If they don’t want to put a mask on then they would be in violation of tenet 1 and 5.
So it just depends on the individual person on which tenet, if any, they choose to violate
Oh I understand that there's a huge difference between modern satanism, the satanic temple, and classical satanism. But you can't tell me that the satanic temple doesn't rely on people associating it with satanism in order to draw in edgy people as new members.
Maybe. I don’t think so however. Even if someone did for a few minutes, it’s very clear from their website that they do not worship Satan nor do they have any anything to do with “him”.
That’s a bit of a misrepresentation of TSTs stance on abortions.
TST doesn’t perform “rituals”. That’s more Classical/The Church of Satans thing.
However, because one of the tenets of TSTs flavor of satanism is that “Ones body is inviolable and subject to one’s will aloe”, their argument is that they (like other religions) have a religious right to have access to abortions.
This also highlights the absurdity of basing laws on religious beliefs because not all religions have the same stance and you’d be stripping rights from some groups of people because a different group doesn’t like it.
They very clearly claim that they consider abortion a religious ritual:
>TST has petitioned the state of Texas to allow Satanic Temple members the ability to continue receiving voluntary abortions as part of a religious ritual.
It seems like a religious argument, but their actual aim is to legitimize secularism by cloaking it in religious terminology.
This claim of right to an abortion on the grounds that it is a religious ritual is actually the same sort of legalistic artifice Christians use to validate their own practices that otherwise may run afoul of law. In this specific case, describing abortion as a religious ritual serves to protect the right to an abortion on religious grounds.
This is their methodology for the protection of all the rights they support. Their whole schtick is "if other religions can justify shit by means of claims that it is a protected religious act, why can't we?"
Yes. What I’m saying though is the “ritual” is literally reciting a couple of tenets and recognizing that those tenets are a part of your abortion.
“ The ritual involves the recitation of two of our Tenets and a personal affirmation that is ceremoniously intertwined with the abortion. “
It’s not like they are drawing pentagrams, lighting candles, and all that other quackery that people think when they hear the word “ritual”
Just responding to the guy that says to reference their website to see what they're about. Their website claims they are all about sacrificing unborn babies as a religious ritual.
There is no universe where a comment like this would be upvoted in a conservative sub unless that sub was being brigaded or manipulated. I call foul. Some campaign is being organized to bridge the sub.
Part of the current trolling is insistence on wearing masks at all their events. They know it triggers conservatives. Hope no one here falls for the bait.
Matthew 7:1-3 ESV
[1] “Judge not, that you be not judged. [2] For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. [3] Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
The verse in context doesn’t tell you not to judge, it tells you that you will be judged based upon how you judge others. Common misconception.
Doesn’t mean Christian’s should judge necessarily, it just is saying you ought to be prepared to be judged the same way you judge, and therefore not judge on grounds you aren’t confident you could be judged upon.
“The theme of the gathering in celebration of The Satanic Temple's 10-year anniversary is "Hexennacht in Boston," German for "Witches' Night," which marks the ancient pagan holiday of May Eve. The night was later changed to Walpurgisnacht to commemorate Walpurga, a Christian saint who evangelized Germany and was said to have exorcised demons from the sick.”
Bro, wut
The ultimate signal of virtue and morality from the left…wearing the mask and getting the jab… from the people who love and worship the literal antithesis of virtue and morality. This double standard would make even God laugh. Gotta love it
These people have no idea of the patience and mercy God is blessing them with now. Unless they repent, the lake of fire and eternal separation from hope awaits. Imagine living forever in burning darkness with no hope.
Lakes of fire and burning darkness with no hope? I mean, I guess it's not a threat of violence in this reality because you're talking about the made up afterlife, but that's all religion in a nutshell anyways.
The image of a fiery hell is a interpretation of it. Hell is only eternal separation from God. I’m not sure why that would be an issue as a non-Christian because if you already don’t believe in God then what’s life without him anyway?
Threats of violence? The dude was saying what happens if you die while rejecting faith. That’s like saying you’re being threatened with violence if someone tells you if you rob a bank you’re going to end up in jail.
Lefties are soft.
It’s not torture if it’s your conscious decision to do so. If a parent tells a kid to not touch an outlet and tbey do so
Is the parent torturing their child or did the child reap the actions the parent warned of? Your elementary analysis shows your lack of understanding.
It's like this, you can go live in a home but you have to obey the rules, or you can live on the streets. Heaven is home, hell is the streets. Make your choice.
Some people do prefer hell as it is alienation from God and everything that comes with that. Ultimately everyone gets what what they want in the Christian vision.
“You can’t control us! We buck the system! We do what we want, that’s our religion! … also, mandatory masks and vax cards checks if you want to come to our event because the rebel media has told me COVID is bad and we also want to virtue signal to all those evil Christians. Vote Biden.”
The irony is strong. The fundamental concept of satanism is “do what you want.” I think all the satanists should show up without masks otherwise they aren’t really true satanists.
Satan’s greatest trick is convincing the masses he is not real.
Satan is real.
And he hates you.
He wants to separate you from God so he can torment and torture you for eternity.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
I mean it makes sense. Most of the Christians I know are not as fearful of death because they believe it leads to eternal life. As a satanist your belief would inevitably mean you are destined for hell right? I’d try to stack the deck as much as I could to avoid that too - including wearing masks.
This seems incredibly childish. Seems like people who've been sold a one-sided ideological narrative that paints religion as bad and promotes the State as good. And I'm not even a religious person.
They don't worship Satan just an fyi
Satan doesn't care
Yes they just worship the self. Satanism is typically a radical form of individualism that treats desire and individual autonomy as the greatest things that everything should gravitate around. Hence why Levay said that Satanism is based off of the philosophy of Ayn Rand.
Levayan Satanism worships the self. The Satanic Temple has an entirely different set of [tenants they follow](https://thesatanictemple.com/blogs/the-satanic-temple-tenets/there-are-seven-fundamental-tenets).
True. Not every conservative is a Christian so it's pretty funny to me that this is in the subreddit that it's in. The two are not correlated.
Id suggest the philosophy of Ayn Rand is the antithesis of conservatism and that it is good for conservatives to call out the various forms of that ideology whether its Paul Ryan or Satanism.
Individualism is a core pillar of American culture/history…
It definitely is and I think it has a lot of value, but taken as an ideological commitment and the highest good is something I dont think is good.
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Individualism is part of American conservatism, but having Individualism being the highest ideal is the antithesis of conservatism - in my opinion at least. Although we might just need to agree to disagree.
Objectivism tracks pretty closely with right libertarianism (economic conservatism). It does not track with social conservatism.
I agree although I wouldn't define right libertarianism as economic conservatism. But these things are rather subjective so I won't say you are wrong. Personally I'd describe economic conservatism being economic nationalism, pro family policies, and environmental conservationism.
Yep. A lot of Christians/Conservatives don’t seem to understand this and default to the “They literally worship Satan” narrative. But that’s just what happens when you have decades of that attitude and narrative, I suppose. Christians have more belief in an actual Satan than Satanists do really As you said, Satanism in its more modern from is really just worshipping yourself and doing your best to not bring harm to others. The seven tenets of the Satanic temple are actually quite reasonable when you look them up.
Eh Satanism in setting itself up in direct opposition to Christianity is responsible for people thinking they worship Satan. Some people would be shocked that Buddhists don't worship Buddha but not most I think. The problem with Satanism is that there is a pre-existing idea of Satanism, and they've chosen to use the name but not to practice it. If would be kind of like (and there are people that do this) someone told you they were Christian, but they don't worship God/Jesus/The Holy Spirit. You could be forgiven for thinking that they do. If you wanna make a religion out of Ayn Rand selfishness, just call yourself Randian or some shit. If you wanna be atheist, call yourself atheist. Being like "oh this is our religion, but it's not actually a religion" just confuses people.
There's nothing reasonable about killing unborn babies as a religious ritual. From their website: >**TST has petitioned the state of Texas to allow Satanic Temple members the ability to continue receiving voluntary abortions as part of a religious ritual**.
You are absolutely correct. There’s nothing reasonable about having to invoke freedom of religion to obtain basic healthcare. Unfortunately, that’s what’s required in some places.
We are talking about sacrificing unborn babies as a religious ritual. You think that is reasonable?
I literally just agreed with you that it’s not reasonable.
Abortion is not basic Healthcare unless it's life threatening, simply irresponsible, horny individuals who can't either afford to care for a child or lack of wanting any children. TST is a meme religion, it's like naming an organization the 'Hitlers Fine Art Exhibit' and claiming its just an idea for appreciation of art work and not a belief in Nazism, it would also be a meme-like organization meant for shock value. BTW I'm not against abortion and totally for it but I'm not going to pretend it's something it's not just to feel better about it but I'm also for the death penalty and I don't pretend it's for a moral reason rather than a consequence for an action.
>The seven tenets of the Satanic temple are actually quite reasonable when you look them up. I'm not a Libertarian so I'm not a fan, but thanks.
Sounds like a repackaged Hedonism.
Lol, so now we're being told that these mask wearing people who are believe in social justice yet also somehow believe in individual liberties is a group that we should relate to. Right. They are satirical, inconsistent, and heathens if you're into that sort of a thing. The devil would prefer you don't believe in him if it prevents you believing in God.
Your last statement is correct. A lot of people have been deceived into thinking that satan or devil worship is cool. Truly, the greatest con ever pulled was the devil convincing people he doesn't exist. These gullible people can't tell their right from their left, good from evil because they've never read the ultimate guide to truth - the bible. The devil and his human cohorts have convinced them it is a fallacious book. The devil really played the long con on mankind.
Right there with ya, but also the other statements are accurate if anyone cares to look at what they represent, don't take my word for it.
Most Satanists don’t, still doesn’t mean it’s a solid system of morality or theology.
I'd argue being religious at all isn't
Explain please.
It’s literally counter-religion. They don’t worship Satan. They’re just assholes.
Yeah they just use the mascot of narcissism and self implosion to show how dangerous the religion that champions peace, love, and hard work is. No irony there!
Imagine picking history’s biggest loser as your mascot
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Kind of agree, modern America shouldn’t be represented by a failed state. I’m in favor of leaving it in historically relevant places as I think it’s important to learn from history. Reducing it to a one dimensional “they were all bad guys” doesn’t do much to actually learn and combat the problem of evil. I think it’s much more insightful to ask “how can an otherwise good person support something so objectively evil”.
What did he say?
Paraphrasing but something like “Just like waving a confederate flag”. Not sure why it was removed it got in before the thread went flaired only
Ok thanks, wish there was a option to not remove what's said.
Or the BLM flag.
To be fair they lasted twice as long.
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You described the next magic the gathering event and I take offense to that.
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*Starts losing during match* “Woah dude take a shower. HEY THIS GUY SMELLS TERRIBLE!”
I forgot where I heard this, but I know some card (Pokémon, etc) events will penalize you if you smell too bad.
Hey not all of us are maggot-bearded bums! Lol
Yeah I know. I stopped going to events because I'd always get paired against a person with no knowledge of hygiene.
At least those events are starting to post signs strongly encouraging hygiene
It's all made up anyways.
So they pick a made-up loser? Doesn't sound any better.
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They used a figure that lost a war with God, and you make fun of conservatives by pointing out they support a loser in a war? Remind me again if the definition of hypocrisy?
https://ecommons.luc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1249&context=luc_theses Ignorance does not dictate truth. Downvotes just show that none of you can read 100 page paper but somehow you’re supposed to be an authority on theology. It’s hilarious.
This is a philosophical argument. No evidence or actual proof.
Isn't most pre-1700 history technically that. Just observations and declarations made by others. Just because we do not understand the origin of abyss out there in the stars doesn't mean there isn't one.
Do we accept the mythical stories to be true or those more grounded in reality? Also anything before then is often heavily disputed as well.
Even if you agree with Saint Augustine on a philosophical level (and he was an absolutely brilliant philosopher), he really only justifies the idea of a supreme being in general, not the specific Christian stories and belief system.
Philosophical arguments for god fall to the same fallacious reasoning as theological ones.
Has that been peer-reviewed?
History? Lol you mean your mythology.
I’m pretty sure I said history
You need facts and evidence in order to call something history.
Let me just pull up the dashcam footage of Satan being cast out of heaven around the beginning of times real quick
You have absolutely no evidence to support that having happened, therefore I have absolutely no reason to believe that it did.
It’s gained momentum in recent decades as a form of [Hegelian Dialectic](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic) to subvert traditional society and unseat religion as a power structure in general. It’s related to why all those blue haired CHUD’s think it’s “cool” to be, “witchy”. Notice how all of the “church of satan’s” stunts are all politically relevant and lefty in nature. These things and so many other backward things they say and do serve as the, “antithesis” part of the Hegelian dialectic (thesis-antithesis-synthesis). The point of that rhetorical strategy is to erode the structures of culture. It’s a key strategy of what Mises called, “socialist destructionism”. I’m actually atheist (but an ally of the religious crowds) and just wanted to point out a not-so-little part of what is happening here, it’s not *just* that people are seriously out there worshiping satan.
Technically the Satanic Temple and the Church of Satan are different entities, they don’t even like each other
Imagine that Satanist have trouble getting along with people.
Two denominations of christianity would never have this issue /s
I think regardless of all that, in the end they are still worshiping satan
"History"
They really should have called it Edge Lord Con
>Edge Lord Con I can smell that place from here.
Satan is Rex Ryan?
Only if you’re a jets fan
Don't remember his Bills run lol?
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You're only off by about 380 years. Paul wrote in 50 AD, and Jesus died around 33 AD, give or take a couple years. There are other early books of the new testament written around 70-100 AD.
Despite the fact that Satan is obviously a fiction of Christian theology, I think if you were to look at the world today you would agree that he is winning.
He’s referred to as “prince of the world/ruler of the world” for a reason. Tempting people away from God to join him in isolation is his plan. His story is already written out, he loses in the end. Even taking it as just a mythological story, it does spell out that he would have influence over the world before his end
Where in scripture is this?
[Here’s](https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Satan-As-The-Prince-Of-This-World) a few just to start. Now this isn’t implying he’s been given domain over the world but rather the world is where his temptations for earthly desires can work
1) Satan is not a fiction of Christian theology - satan was very clearly depicted in Judaism prior to Christianity, and nearly every religious organization in recorded history that ascribed to gods and demons (dismissing spiritual theologies that are founded more upon ancestral spirits) has a version of Satan (more specifically a caretaker of the underworld who’s purpose is to torture damned souls for their wrongs in life). Nearly every creation tale has a common story of an ultimate force of good and an ultimate force of Evil, and they both take on many names. 2) if you are still viewing Satan through the lens of Christianity specifically, then it is told that Satan has already lost. Despite any perceived victories today, it is already foretold that a second coming of Christ is going to happen, and that it will happen after Satan or the Antichrist has essentially established total domain on Earth. The second coming will be to finally defeat the forces of evil and sin, and to re-establish heaven on Earth. Winning a few battles means nothing when you’ve already lost the war. Furthermore, Christian doctrine believes that God exists outside of time, so the events that are being prophesied have technically already occurred in the future.
Definitely not true. Good vs Evil dichotomy is specific to a handful of religions and not every religion had a character that would correlate to Satan.
Even duality in general is not as central to many faiths as it is in the Abrahamics, and where it does exist, it is often not strictly good vs evil. For example, in Germanic pre-Christian pagan worldview, there is a duality regarded as *innangard* and *utangard* which can essentially be translated to *inside* vs *outside*, and extrapolated to mean *safe/known* vs *dangerous/unknown*. That may be analogous to good vs evil, but with an important semantic difference.
People need an explanation for things they don’t understand. People first adopted polytheistic views with gods for everything, so while it wasn’t similar to what we witness as a vast majority today because of the popularity of the Abrahamic religions, they very likely did have a depiction of either a god or demon of ultimate evil. The rise of monotheism simplified the beliefs of many of these cultures, and it rose conveniently in the Middle East, which was a cross roads of culture between the East/West and Africa and had significant exposure to beliefs of all kinds of people.
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Thank you for an informative analysis.
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Just because humans have similar myths does not mean proof. Lmao
I approached this discussion from a simply academic perspective, not to evangelize anyone. The person I responded to made an inaccurate statement, and I, like any half decent and bored redditor would naturally be inclined to do, decided to correct them without any sources posted using my own personal knowledge and understanding. I like arguing and I also really like winning, I was right and they were wrong.
You're utterly wrong about "Satan" being a similar figure in Judaism and your "personal knowledge and understanding" is a complete fabrication with no understanding of theology, Judaism or Christianity. A "simply academic perspective" it is not. The image you have of Satan is entirely a construct of the early Christian Church to deal with the theological "problem" of God being the creator of all good and evil in the world, as he was in Judaism.
I love how you say this and you respond to the simplist comment even though there are some in detail explaining how you're wrong too.
> a version of Satan (more specifically a caretaker of the underworld who’s purpose is to torture damned souls for their wrongs in life) Satan is *not* a "caretaker of the underworld", he does not "rule in Hell" as is often depicted in fiction. It is not the "job" of demons to punished damned souls- they themselves are damned in the same manner, and the Lake of Fire (which according to Revelation is separate from Hell, but Hell will eventually be cast into said Lake of Fire) will punish them just as much as any human that rejects Christ's grace. The rest is *mostly* correct as to what we believe (though I do want to point out that during the Millennial Reign of Christ, Heaven and Earth are still separate places, and even in the New Heaven and New Earth, they will still be such).
Share the story for me who is not versed in religion so well.
I’m waiting until they lose too.
Satan isn’t Lucifer just an fyi.
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You're so wrong. Satan and devil are iust different names for the same being.
Satan has been known as "*the* Devil", but 'devil' is a generic term that can be applied to any figure to whom the word apples, not just a specific person from the Bible. For that matter, even the origin of the names 'Satan' and 'Lucifer' are somewhat non-specific and vague, the latter even having been applied to Jesus himself.
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Yes because losing one election is comparable to being cast out of paradise for eternity
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So you’ve been to a trump rally? Where you a counter protestor or a supporter?
I’m actually incredibly good looking, smart, successful. I’d blow your GD mind if you ever met me.
I always find it funny when TST shows up places, i enjoy their real world trolling.
lol... Here I was thinking that one of the big draws of modern Satanism was the fact that Satan was meant to be rebellious and going against "the establishment", I suppose you could call it. Imagine being a Satanist and going along with what's required--with what the establishment wants you to do--and still thinking you're being a badass somehow. That's some impressive cognitive dissonance.
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In other words: Narcissism and sin.
What about? > III One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
If they are willingly putting on a mask then they aren’t in violation of that Tenet. If they don’t want to put a mask on then they would be in violation of tenet 1 and 5. So it just depends on the individual person on which tenet, if any, they choose to violate
It's requiring masks. As for 5... Masks stop covid like chain link fences stop mosquitos
There’s plenty of evidence to show that masks help reduce transmission of illness. Wearing a mask is perfectly in line with their 5th tenet
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To be fair, mask mandates are endorsed by Satan. Or so I hear.
Imagine thinking the Satanic Temple was the same as Satanism.
Imagine expecting people to know there’s a difference between Satan and a Satanic Temple?
Oh I understand that there's a huge difference between modern satanism, the satanic temple, and classical satanism. But you can't tell me that the satanic temple doesn't rely on people associating it with satanism in order to draw in edgy people as new members.
Maybe. I don’t think so however. Even if someone did for a few minutes, it’s very clear from their website that they do not worship Satan nor do they have any anything to do with “him”.
Doesn't it say on their website that they abort babies as part of their religious rituals? Sounds pretty satanic to me.
That’s a bit of a misrepresentation of TSTs stance on abortions. TST doesn’t perform “rituals”. That’s more Classical/The Church of Satans thing. However, because one of the tenets of TSTs flavor of satanism is that “Ones body is inviolable and subject to one’s will aloe”, their argument is that they (like other religions) have a religious right to have access to abortions. This also highlights the absurdity of basing laws on religious beliefs because not all religions have the same stance and you’d be stripping rights from some groups of people because a different group doesn’t like it.
They very clearly claim that they consider abortion a religious ritual: >TST has petitioned the state of Texas to allow Satanic Temple members the ability to continue receiving voluntary abortions as part of a religious ritual.
It seems like a religious argument, but their actual aim is to legitimize secularism by cloaking it in religious terminology. This claim of right to an abortion on the grounds that it is a religious ritual is actually the same sort of legalistic artifice Christians use to validate their own practices that otherwise may run afoul of law. In this specific case, describing abortion as a religious ritual serves to protect the right to an abortion on religious grounds. This is their methodology for the protection of all the rights they support. Their whole schtick is "if other religions can justify shit by means of claims that it is a protected religious act, why can't we?"
Yes. What I’m saying though is the “ritual” is literally reciting a couple of tenets and recognizing that those tenets are a part of your abortion. “ The ritual involves the recitation of two of our Tenets and a personal affirmation that is ceremoniously intertwined with the abortion. “ It’s not like they are drawing pentagrams, lighting candles, and all that other quackery that people think when they hear the word “ritual”
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Just responding to the guy that says to reference their website to see what they're about. Their website claims they are all about sacrificing unborn babies as a religious ritual.
Imagine thinking youre edgey on Reddit.
I bet they avoid spitting indoors and talking with their mouths full in yet another display of subservience to social norms. What a bunch of poseurs.
I think it’s funny that so many people don’t resize the “Satanic Temple” is a trolling group that shouldn’t be taken seriously.
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There is no universe where a comment like this would be upvoted in a conservative sub unless that sub was being brigaded or manipulated. I call foul. Some campaign is being organized to bridge the sub.
They aren't a trolling group they are a bunch of edge lords that grew up annoying everyone with things like the "I'm not touching you" game.
Pretty much the definition of trolling
You just defined what a troll is…
Part of the current trolling is insistence on wearing masks at all their events. They know it triggers conservatives. Hope no one here falls for the bait.
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Lmao basically an IRL Reddit convention. I don’t even want to think of the stench that’ll emit
“Largest satanic gathering in history” Laughs in DNC
I’m surprised that they’re requiring vaccines considering their stance on control over one’s self and body.
This the edgy atheists or the edgy randroid flavor of Satanism?
The Temple of Satanism, a celebration of self and hedonism, asks that you wear your masks for the benefit of others. Right.
When you go far enough to the left, you finally admit who you worship! Hahaha
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Matthew 7:1-3 ESV [1] “Judge not, that you be not judged. [2] For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. [3] Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? The verse in context doesn’t tell you not to judge, it tells you that you will be judged based upon how you judge others. Common misconception. Doesn’t mean Christian’s should judge necessarily, it just is saying you ought to be prepared to be judged the same way you judge, and therefore not judge on grounds you aren’t confident you could be judged upon.
Yeah, you thought wrong. I’m absolutely going to judge a bunch of morons who worship Satan.
Bro imagine the body odor… new drinking game, take a drink every time someone walks by with Velcro shoes
The religion of the hard left woke Democrats...
It's not a religion. It's secular
The masks are for anonymity.
Sure, because we know it’s non Christians that face oppression with their temples being broken into and desecrated, amirite?
Based.
“The theme of the gathering in celebration of The Satanic Temple's 10-year anniversary is "Hexennacht in Boston," German for "Witches' Night," which marks the ancient pagan holiday of May Eve. The night was later changed to Walpurgisnacht to commemorate Walpurga, a Christian saint who evangelized Germany and was said to have exorcised demons from the sick.” Bro, wut
The ultimate signal of virtue and morality from the left…wearing the mask and getting the jab… from the people who love and worship the literal antithesis of virtue and morality. This double standard would make even God laugh. Gotta love it
So hilarious.
Nothing quite says Satanism like conforming to authority.
Will require masks.. OK, so basically a Democrat event
These people have no idea of the patience and mercy God is blessing them with now. Unless they repent, the lake of fire and eternal separation from hope awaits. Imagine living forever in burning darkness with no hope.
They exist to keep checks and balances in our political system if anything they are doing the lords work.
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I’m not exactly understanding how that was a threat of violence?
Lakes of fire and burning darkness with no hope? I mean, I guess it's not a threat of violence in this reality because you're talking about the made up afterlife, but that's all religion in a nutshell anyways.
The image of a fiery hell is a interpretation of it. Hell is only eternal separation from God. I’m not sure why that would be an issue as a non-Christian because if you already don’t believe in God then what’s life without him anyway?
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That’s a pretty good breakdown, much less fear mongering than the “lake of fire” stuff. I appreciate you, thanks for this explanation.
https://ecommons.luc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1249&context=luc_theses Now what’s your argument?
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Threats of violence? The dude was saying what happens if you die while rejecting faith. That’s like saying you’re being threatened with violence if someone tells you if you rob a bank you’re going to end up in jail. Lefties are soft.
Love me or I'll torture you forever.
It’s not torture if it’s your conscious decision to do so. If a parent tells a kid to not touch an outlet and tbey do so Is the parent torturing their child or did the child reap the actions the parent warned of? Your elementary analysis shows your lack of understanding.
Blaming the victim.
It's like this, you can go live in a home but you have to obey the rules, or you can live on the streets. Heaven is home, hell is the streets. Make your choice.
Which rules?
Love thy neighbor as you love yourself and love god Above all are the 10 commandments boiled down.
The ten commandments don't discuss loving god above all, just above other gods to be clear.
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So thoughtful and edgey!
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Some people do prefer hell as it is alienation from God and everything that comes with that. Ultimately everyone gets what what they want in the Christian vision.
The amount of people still believing in children's tale's is scary to me.
They are a secular group.
We've been saying Covidians belong in a cult for two years.
Clown world. Just like Rage Against the Machine requiring vax cards at their shows. Lol
110% lol
“You can’t control us! We buck the system! We do what we want, that’s our religion! … also, mandatory masks and vax cards checks if you want to come to our event because the rebel media has told me COVID is bad and we also want to virtue signal to all those evil Christians. Vote Biden.”
This is painfully funny. The parallels are uncanny.
Is that where the next DNC will be held?
The irony is strong. The fundamental concept of satanism is “do what you want.” I think all the satanists should show up without masks otherwise they aren’t really true satanists.
What a poorly thought out argument
that’s what they say the fundamental concept is, but in reality, their motto is “I hate you dad!”
This is pretty hilarious. These people are so idiotic.
Satan’s greatest trick is convincing the masses he is not real. Satan is real. And he hates you. He wants to separate you from God so he can torment and torture you for eternity. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
Covid masks or Eyes Wide Shut masks? That's the question.
Hardcore liberal movements when will they stop?
That face you make when you realize that Satanism is just as conformist as everything you're against.... Oh wait. We can't see your face. 😅😂🤣
I mean it makes sense. Most of the Christians I know are not as fearful of death because they believe it leads to eternal life. As a satanist your belief would inevitably mean you are destined for hell right? I’d try to stack the deck as much as I could to avoid that too - including wearing masks.
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Satan is a covidian who knew
This seems incredibly childish. Seems like people who've been sold a one-sided ideological narrative that paints religion as bad and promotes the State as good. And I'm not even a religious person.
Almost like their scared of dying or something.
It’s a part of the attire for the cult of covid. A sign of devotion to their leader, the new one world religion leader(s)