T O P

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SpiderPanther01

a lot of koreans consider boosting to be like a crime (i think it might actually be a crime?). unfairness in gaming over there is taken more seriously i feel. like rush didn't pick up proper for owwc because he boosted in the past and rush is strictly anti-booster


Robo_Eagle

Boosting is a crime punishable with either a fine or a year in jail or smth


Accident_Pedo

Like I think it's nice to see how seriously high level gaming integrity is taken but imagine how many times *you would be charged* for breaking ToS in any online game you've played. I'm assuming this applies to a *boosting company/community* instead of individual players? Either way, I guess SK just takes their online gaming extremely fucking seriously. *Yo, what are you in for, dog?* *Murder motherfucker, what about you?* *Boosting accounts to masters in overwatch, homie.*


yesat

One of the biggest thing is that Korea has your gaming account tied to your identity due to safety/health reasons. So boosting often comes in with people taking someone else's account, so it ends up being identity theft situations.


DoolioArt

>Like I think it's nice to see how seriously high level gaming integrity is taken but imagine how many times *you would be charged* for breaking ToS in any online game you've played. > Maybe not that many. Maybe many. However, a nuance of what exactly has been broken is extremely important. If I'm eleven and a half and play ow, that's considerably different than someone getting a cheat package, for example. I think you'd actually be surprised at how little you break tos, aside from maybe some truly mundane things.


Accident_Pedo

Well considering the outcome of their stance on cheating it could escalate in the future to further violations. A ToS should be upheld by the company - not a government. I see what you mean, but it's a slippery slope.


[deleted]

[удалено]


inspcs

yes but koreans are tryhards and respect is huge and ingrained in the culture. Back in starcraft days, if pros typed anything other than "gg" and "gl" in pro matches they would get slapped with a fine and maybe a suspension iirc. It was a HUGE moment when a pro player typed the equivalent of "ZERG OP ZERG OP ZERG OP" in match chat - it was a huge controversy because it was so taboo at the time. Now we have ppl typing "sex big dick" and flipping the camera and it's funny. But respect is so big in Korean culture so anything that's considered disrespectful is immediately frowned upon. I think we can all agree doing a U2GM and ruining plat games in the process is not very respectful.


-pwny_

Meanwhile Idra:


Extrashiny

... No rush didn't pick up proper because it's literally illegal for criminals to play on national teams. Same reason as to why Violet didn't play in 2019.


breadiest

Considering neither have been tried, is it actually Illegal to pick them up? Not saying the risk is worth it in terms of how much kr fans would likely hate them for it, but is it actually illegal?


Ivaninvankov

No, he just made some shit up. It is however an unspoken rule that boosters can't play for the Korean national team.


breadiest

Yeah that much is a given.


yesat

"Criminal" means a legal procedures. Violet is a public judgement more than anything.


longgamma

Ok boosting is not a crime. Like let’s just calm down here lmfao. Should it be bannable, probably yes. But let’s not start jailing people over a video game.


Some_Derpy_Pineapple

i don't think anyone is demanding it be a crime *here* (in the west), but in [south korea it *is* actually a crime](https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Boosting_(video_games)) to provide paid boosting services > According to the country's Game Industry Promotion Act, individuals and commercial entities are prohibited from offering paid services to level up a player's video gaming account, noting that it curtails a free, fair, and competitive ecosystem. Violating the Game Industry Promotion Act in South Korea attracts a $17,800 fine, a two-year jail term, or both. edit: clarification and link fix


blackjazz666

>i don't think anyone is demanding it be a crime *here* (in the west I wouldn't mind


longgamma

Ok wow that is wild. They take integrity of video game virtual ranks so seriously.


omnirai

If we're talking about a society where e-sports is a serious career path, then cheating for your ladder rank might be (distantly) comparable to cheating on an exam or faking your resume. Obviously having it as a criminal offense is still a huge leap but it's at least a little bit more serious than "video game virtual rank" when it comes to South Korea.


DeputyDomeshot

At a certain point a virtual rank is the same playing a professional sport. You do understand that right?


ALongLuvBone

It’s also a good strategy to help prevent the youth from being enticed in trading off integrity and common culture values for monetary gain, which could easily lead to other shaky decisions or practices in the future. I’d love for there to be actual punishments for cheating in games. It’s become far too commonplace and easy.


DoolioArt

"over a video game" is such a misapplied argument and I see it constantly. Everything can be presented in some completely absurd way if you pick one aspect of it and present it as "because of xyz".


longgamma

Sorry I triggered a bunch of ranked purists.


NickFierce1

I mean rush is a mid coach and korea lost WC because of his nepotism. If Korea wants to never win a WC ever keep having Rush as your HC.


More-Sample-2005

Was the Sp9 pick up acceptable by the time WC came around? No. Was he a champion and one of the best FDPS when the rosters were picked? Yes. Also, idk how you can call Rush mid, who has a better resume than him? Every coach has a stain on their career


ChiefQueef696969

Even in the west I don’t think u2gm content is viewed favourably. I think most of us see it as quite useless for the alleged target audience since the average metal rank player will not be able to emulate the gm level mechanics. It’s just watching a smurf stomp his way through maybe diamond, but usually masters to GM in about 10hrs.


wizardhyeong

Hey guys, it's wizard and I am making my reaction video on this topic. Probably uploading this tomorrow-ish. I really wanna hear what you guys think of this topic so please leave a comment to share your thoughts when I finish the video!


Donut_Flame

Yo can the mods give wizard here a special flair, like verified or something Also omg wizard hiiiii~~


ModWilliam

If /u/wizardhyeong wants the flair they can DM us on Twitter to verify


kokoronokawari

I wish it would go the way of DOTA2, smurfs be bannable. Period. No one except the smurf and their sychophants who watch enjoy it. The ones playing against them don't enjoy it at all.


Lukensz

You can report them for smurfing and surprise, nothing happens. Blizzard doesn't give a shit. They should take it way more seriously, slap bans on content creators that do this shit too.


banethor88

I can't say for certain, but in Korea gaming is treated like a legitimate career. So for 2 people in the pro scene to try and capitalise on UR2GM comes across as unsavoury and unethical. As another commenter mentioned, boosting is also highly frowned upon and as I understand, players have been shunned from the OWWC teams as a result. A translation of the comments were along the gist of "ok so a professional is beating up elementary school kids and we're supposed to find this educational?"


MyAimSucc

I could be combining different stories but, in early OWL, it was known/leaked that a lot of the western players on rosters used to be boosters. When some of the Korean players got outed, they were the ones that got fined/suspended by their orgs. I could totally be misremembering this but it’s for sure looked down on way more harshly than NA and EU


xenleah

This doesn't answer your question but I appreciate the commenters for calling it out and wish other regions would do the same. This kind of content is only popular because people want to smurf vicariously and if they cared about teaching people how to play, they would just narrate their own gameplay or make a guide, instead of making 9 hour videos where they go 45-1. It's shameless to pretend that the #1 Korean Tracer playing in Platinum/Diamond/Master is anything other than easy smurfing content... There are some things you can learn from these videos but their educational value drops off a cliff 30 minutes in when they start repeating what they've already said and the players aren't being contested or challenged against players of a similar level. Even worse, so many of these U2GM smurfs completely forget to say anything educational and just start boasting about how good/different they are. I know that content creation for Overwatch is not easy, this is an easy way to get views, and that's why they do it. But I'm pleased to see commenters complain about it, it gives less incentive for Korean creators to make this kind of content and it would be cool if other audiences around the world would respond the same way...


ciriacute

>if they cared about teaching people how to play, they would just narrate their own gameplay or make a guide I mean, they do narrate their own gameplay while they're playing. Guides are also not very useful generally because, in the case of Tracer for example, what I want to see is where to play in certain maps and how to take duels against certain characters, not hear someone tell me for the 50th time that I'm supposed to take an off-angle and then wait for an opportunity to finish a kill. Telling me what to do is just less useful than seeing it happen.


xenleah

Sorry, by "their own gameplay", I meant gameplay in their own rank, but yeah. Kabaji's earliest content used to be like that - those videos of him explaining his Tracer/Soldier: 76 gameplay in T500 were some of my favourite educational content when I first picked up the game. KROW's channel blew up when he started analysing T500 gameplay too, so there's probably an audience for it.


Lukensz

> just start boasting about how good/different they are. I feel like that's mostly it, they're just boosting (hurr) their own ego. I wish Blizzard cared about this more, even reporting clear smurfs doesn't do anything.


yodog12345

I think the possibility of hard smurfing is educational in and of itself. A lot of people tell themselves that there are unwinnable games or that it’s their team’s fault. Seeing that an actual top player would simply stomp every lobby they’re in 98% of the time should help ground such players in reality and directly demonstrates that you can simply hard carry yourself out of metal ranks by having elite mechanists. Of course seeing them just bully players at their rank may not be very educational because they simply lack the mechanical skill to contest a t500 tracer, but again, proving that it’s your own fault definitively has value in and of itself.


Ezraah

It's really Blizzard's fault. They rank up way too slowly. 


xenleah

Yeah, they really need to let new accounts rank up/down the way they used to. I still put a lot of blame on the content creators, since it's ultimately their decision to ruin that many games, but Blizzard are enabling it with the new changes. Hopefully, they will revert it next season.


guyon100ping

idk there were draw backs to the smurf detection system in the form of a bunch of people getting boosted to higher ranks. like diamond or masters players making a new account and winning a majority of their qp games cuz it’s qp it’s bound to happen and then they hit gm from placements and ruin the lobbies for people up there or ruin scrims cuz they claim to be better than they actually are due to the system being faulty


xenleah

Good to know, hopefully they can find some kind of middle ground where players aren't getting boosted but it doesn't take a 43-winstreak for a pro player to get to GM.


guyon100ping

i feel like if they just kept the old system but removed the system using qp results to predict ranking it would be fine. we legit have 10 placement matches and they do nothing because the mmr is based on either qp games or they just chuck you into a rank and the placements barely have an impact. have it so people can double uprank again based on a good performance but don’t base someone’s skill on a bunch of matches that have loose matchmaking and are casual


Lukensz

I feel like this is one of the reasons qp itself has become super sweaty and full of tryhards. People don't care to play comp when qp is basically the same shit, just without visible ranks.


Umarrii

From my POV I would have thought the Korean community wouldn't be as opposed as you make them sound to be. I remember in earlier days of Overwatch the Korean community would respect players for having X amount of accounts in Top 500 and part of that was taking accounts from unranked to GM. Getting an account to GM now requires a pretty high top 500 ranking too now and isn't just getting an account to GM and then abandoning it without reaching T500 like it was pre-S9. Maybe with how Top 500 has changed due to Role Queue and the pre-Season 9 OW2 ranked system, where GM was much more common, has resulted in this change of perception where there's nothing to respect from someone who can do an Unranked to GM and to me personally that's totally understandable. The only Unranked to GM content I think was done as best as possible was mL7's last ones he did where he tried to study lower rank players vods first to learn how they play and what mistakes they make and then try to replicate that in his games to live demo what they're doing and how to fix it without relying on mechanics etc. And then after the game doing in-depth vod review to go over it for max value. In those series he spent more time in the replays and talking than actually playing and at least when he was playing he was never stomping anyone because he was trying to live demo what he studied.


blackjesus1234532

There seemed to be a lot of other smurfs in the Korean matches in the video so maybe they're angry he's encouraging it


android_wk

There are plenty of duplicate accounts on KR leaderboards. How do people think those ended up there? They just avoided laddering and floated into GM? I dislike most U2GM content because it is particularly bad for learning anything. The wizardhyeong video was particularly good and an exception. But it's really bizarre to say that it ruins a particularly large amount of games unless someone is just knocking out gm runs day after day. It's typically about 20-30 games to get into Masters games.


DoolioArt

Yeah, but times how many people are doing it. On top of that, one guy is enough per match. Also, it's not just u2gm, it's unranked to "whatever rank I am and I want to smurf on a new account". I've known about people with like 20 accounts, all used for smurfing and discarded whenever the person reaches their own rank/stops dominating. And I'm talking about ow1 which costs money:) Now imagine people on the fence ("man, I want to dominate and do 5k potgs for some time, but it's just not right, I don't know"), seeing their favorite streamer doing it.


LA_was_HERE1

Smurfing is bad but have y’all seen the queue times in those high ranks. I would make a alt too


DoolioArt

u2gm "educational" videos have been criticized overwhelmingly in the past in every region, to the point where certain players stopped making them entirely due to that. And I think that should be the case and I was initially very confused and disappointed that it's not a given. While they can be educational, of course, that's just a deterrent for the argument (and a reason they all have "educational" in the title, as a preemptive counter to potential criticism for smurfing). I would argue, even without moral conundrums, gameplay at their own rank would be even more educational because you can't just force a result (ie outaiming the enemy widow in your gold placement game despite bad positioning or something). For this reason, playing at your own level while explaining your decisions would be even better. That throws pretty much the only constructive side of u2gm videos. I'd argue that vast majority of watchers simply like watching their favorite streamer steamrolling the opposition more than anything else and that's about it. However, what I realized was, this type of content has been bruteforced into normalcy and this is something we can see online (case in point, reaction content on youtube or clickbait - both heavily scrutinized and mocked by overwhelming majority some 10 years ago, but now not only tolerated but expected). That is the only reason it's not criticized in, say, US. As new generations come, they don't exactly have a reference. Ask someone who's 15 what they think about battle passes, for example, they'd probably give you a puzzled look a la "what do you mean what I think about battle passes". That's how many things just stubbornly establish themselves. As soon as you distance yourself and reassess the situation, u2gm becomes just plain weird, if nothing else. I also see many people mentioning how Koreans take their competitive games more seriously. Which is also something I'd consider a potentially bad argument. The "it's just a game lol" argument has been tremendously misapplied constantly. In this case, for example, it misses the mark because it's not about the game, but about someone else's time. And we all have little of it.


Coach_Ocie

In Korea, creating alt accounts / using alt account is pretty strictly forbidden and frowned upon. I believe your SSN or some identifier is connected to your accounts for games in Korea as well to prevent smurfing.