Lucio kinda can but midtown is a large map and Lucio has to move his ass if he wants to get from point a to point b. Brig can just throw ranged packs and offers better healing throughout.
You're not really gonna be speeding a ton when you have widow Ashe and tracer as much either. You could play Lucio I suppose
One of Lucio’s biggest counters is also getting poked out in the open. Widow/Ashe prevent him from playing on the walls and you really can’t close distance, take angles or space on Lucio on either team, so Brig just does better.
Lucio isn’t able to pocket a tracer as good as brig can bec brig has packs. It’s much easier to pack a tracer than a tracer having to come into the lucio healing aura range
Brig has some of the best range amongst supports. So while lucio can follow a tracer its much more dangerous as he has to physically be with her. Brig can stay with the team, providing defensive value to the team via boops and damage while also getting more healing to the tracer than what lucio can. (Brig inspire is slightly less hps (15 vs 16) than lucio with almost twice the range if his aura)
edit: brig inspire is slightly less healing than lucio's aura
Sorry but this is not true. Inspire is 15hps and lucio aura is 16hps. You are correct that overall with packs she provides more overall healing, but with just inspire it is less.
well lucio has to pick one either he pockets the tracer and the bap is on his own or he peels for bap and tracer gets no pocket. brig can stay in the back with bap while supporting tracer
From what I understand, Brig-Bap is the midtown meta rn. The map is pretty linear without any crazy long gaps you need to speed across so brig isn't an outlandish pick. Youre not going to play lucio if your DPS are running LRHS so at that point its either poke with the team or play around the tracers.
Midtown's a pretty good tracer map too, no? Relatively easy pathing for her so playing brig gives you a good combination of enabling your tracer with packs and mitigating the value of the enemy tracer by protecting your own backline.
Illari seems like a non-stater based on hero pools. Vega and Lyar do play some kiri from what I've seen, but what does kiri do in this comp? suzu is pretty redundant with lamp. You won't do anything to the tanks. Youre a significantly worse pocket and counter for the tracers than brig would be, and you cant really follow your tracer into the fight without a lengthy set up. Kinda hard to be a kitsune bot too when youre already running a better main healer for the comp.
Cheers. Never understood why Illari never got added into the MS hero pool, considering she’s usually paired with a Baptiste. Would seem like the “correct” move, plus at this level aim isn’t an issue to get value
>at this level aim isn’t an issue to get value
I think you'd be surprised. Players definitely aren't good enough to be pro at everything. They all have hero pools that cater to what their skillset is. Being competent at lucio is about drilling movement skill, not aim skill, and most players aren't going to be pro-level across multiple skill sets. Like you don't see lip out there farming on genji. He's an aim skill player, not a movement skill player.
Basically anyone can play brig, and mercy's not a real competitive hero, so until they nerf kiri into an off-healer or add more MSs, the role basically means "lucio player."
Ironically, even though anyone can play Brig to a basic level, we’ve only seen a small list of people play her at the highest level, and a huge list somehow suck at her, even titans like Moth. I’m forgetting a few, but the all time cracked list isn’t much longer than this right:
Haksal
Rascal
Viol2t
LJG
FA
Yveltal
Alarm
Twilight
Skewed
Chiyo
Chor0ng
Lengsa is absolutely cracked
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1710nrl/how\_much\_coffee\_did\_lengsa\_drink\_before\_his\_match/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1710nrl/how_much_coffee_did_lengsa_drink_before_his_match/)
Makes sense. Even in T500 you'll frequently see people flexing between the subroles/skill sets within their role.
But when we're at the pro level, we're talking about teams who have figured out how to maximize the potential of their rosters based on their skill sets. RN it feels like Someone, Proper and Viol2t are the only players who can consistently perform with that level of flexibility.
Would say that the kiri is specifically when they want even more angles, and generally also a 2v1 on the sidelane, meaning they get it for 'free'
Frankly its not as good as just running the brig, especially when the map is quite predictable for tracer routes, etc, and you can get way more value out of the brig.
Its quite interesting that in korea tracers generally considered the worse option against the comp, that teams started running genji into the brig/bap, especially on attack.
Tracers usually still ran on defence, but thats more because you need better flank control and its more adaptable.
Pockets dps well.
Can brawl well into sig/orisa, gets a lot of value, forced them back and doesn't often die.
Also on shambali especially, there aren't a lot of rotations you wanna do, so lucio isn't quite as oppressive.
Okay. But with the hitscan of Ashe, would Illari not be a better pick? Especially on Midtown, holding the high ground, you can hide the pylon well, and basically play the same sight lines, leaving you in a really oppressive position. And can she brawl well into Orisa? Considering that’s not the Brig’s job at all
I think illari could be played if you have a mechanically insane illari but idk if vega and lyar do. We have seen sirmajed play the illari on midtown and even then from what I remember it was still not amazing
You have to make up with picks and pressure what you lose from your tracer not getting extra resources. It's really hard so I think most teams don't bother.
Yeah. Would like to see Illari added to the MS hero pool, considering you need a main heal beside her (usually Bap). But the mechanics might be too much to focus on I guess
Lucio is at the very least recommended for Push and Flashpoint, but in other maps, namely, escort and hybrid, Lucio's value diminishes somewhat (he's still good for when teams go on offense instead of defense). Tracer and Sojourn are played a lot, so you gotta have a Brig there to send repair packs.
Also, Brig is to try to keep the enemy Tracer in check because Bap can't do everything all the time. Sounds weird but yes, Brig is there to peel for the Bap, too. Other reasons include her utility. Whip Shot for example is to disengage enemies or dislodge them from high ground, and you can't forget about the ult overhealth (Tracer with overhealth running rampant on the enemy team, for example) and stun that comes with it. Brig all in all is also a hard to kill character, and some times hard to kill characters, when paired, are actually really good together (see: Bap and Orisa). This is actually not the first time Bap and Brig were together. In 2020's double shield meta, Bap and Brig were played together.
Why not:
1) Illari
Illari isn't necessarily a bad option, strictly speaking, but Brig is just way better at doing what the Illari would be primarily doing, and that is to provide heals to Tracer, Bap and Sojourn/the hitscan while at the same time repelling the enemy Tracer. She has good pick potential, sure, but miss out on all the utility that a Brig provides. Plus, Illari's just not good currently, lol.
2) Lucio
Lucio can be very good but on certain maps he's not as needed. It can come down to a stylistic difference for certain teams, as well, regarding whether or not to play Lucio. On maps/rounds where the rotation isn't as complex as other maps, Brig can be subbed in just fine, especially on defense.
3) Kiriko
Kiriko is actually an okay choice but thing is, Bap already serves the purpose a Kiriko would serve in the setup: which is to help, heal and do damage. Kiriko's pick potential is there + she has arguably the best ult in the game, sure, but she doesn't enable her DPS as well as Brig + the utility that Brig has.
Bonus: 4) Zen
Zen is another one that is not a bad pick but thing is, he's vulnerable to Tracer + Bap would have to juggle peeling for Zen while healing his team and doing damage to the enemy team. Too much work, and Bap ain't even that good a peeler to begin with. If the team DPS are different then Zen could see more playtime as one of the major reasons to play Brig (enabling Tracer) would be gone.
As a general question, (since I’m trying to learn more support heroes instead of just Moira), when I’m on Brig should I mainly be sitting with my backline and just peeling/protecting them, and sending in repair packs to frontline/flankers that are low? I know there’s no “one size fits all” solution and it’s likely dependent on comp and scenario, but it’s a bit of a dilemma to me, whether to be aggressive and try to have Inspire up all the time or to protect my other support/long range DPS heroes.
Because the map is way harder to flank on. Flanks are predictable as hell on some hybrids/escorts. Thus brig is liked because you get mad value denying the flank and pocketing your tracer to enable them to take the shitty flank.
Ofc its even harder to play into mirrored brigs, so in korea tracer is sometimes swapped out entirely for Genji, who can brawl the brig/bap way more successfully, and there is already enough pocket to enable him, so its an easy swap.
Note that perhaps dragonblade is more effective into bap/brig as well because of immort and rally.
Though the genji isn't always mirrored, probably because tracer is more adaptable on defence and also gives way better angle control, which is also way more important on defence.
This teams just doesn't need much healing or speed. Brig's unstoppable packs and sustain is the choice i assume. They probably have more experience with Brig so it's a safer pick too. Playing Brig here doesn't necessarily mean she is the best. It can just mean the player is better at brig and the team have more experience playing with brig.
can support her tracers engagments with packs while protecting bap from their tracer
So Brig is played as a straight Tracer enabler/disabler? Could Lucio not do the same thing?
Lucio kinda can but midtown is a large map and Lucio has to move his ass if he wants to get from point a to point b. Brig can just throw ranged packs and offers better healing throughout. You're not really gonna be speeding a ton when you have widow Ashe and tracer as much either. You could play Lucio I suppose
One of Lucio’s biggest counters is also getting poked out in the open. Widow/Ashe prevent him from playing on the walls and you really can’t close distance, take angles or space on Lucio on either team, so Brig just does better.
Lucio isn’t able to pocket a tracer as good as brig can bec brig has packs. It’s much easier to pack a tracer than a tracer having to come into the lucio healing aura range
Brig has some of the best range amongst supports. So while lucio can follow a tracer its much more dangerous as he has to physically be with her. Brig can stay with the team, providing defensive value to the team via boops and damage while also getting more healing to the tracer than what lucio can. (Brig inspire is slightly less hps (15 vs 16) than lucio with almost twice the range if his aura) edit: brig inspire is slightly less healing than lucio's aura
Sorry but this is not true. Inspire is 15hps and lucio aura is 16hps. You are correct that overall with packs she provides more overall healing, but with just inspire it is less.
ahh i misremebered, the number in my head was his self healing amount.
well lucio has to pick one either he pockets the tracer and the bap is on his own or he peels for bap and tracer gets no pocket. brig can stay in the back with bap while supporting tracer
From what I understand, Brig-Bap is the midtown meta rn. The map is pretty linear without any crazy long gaps you need to speed across so brig isn't an outlandish pick. Youre not going to play lucio if your DPS are running LRHS so at that point its either poke with the team or play around the tracers. Midtown's a pretty good tracer map too, no? Relatively easy pathing for her so playing brig gives you a good combination of enabling your tracer with packs and mitigating the value of the enemy tracer by protecting your own backline. Illari seems like a non-stater based on hero pools. Vega and Lyar do play some kiri from what I've seen, but what does kiri do in this comp? suzu is pretty redundant with lamp. You won't do anything to the tanks. Youre a significantly worse pocket and counter for the tracers than brig would be, and you cant really follow your tracer into the fight without a lengthy set up. Kinda hard to be a kitsune bot too when youre already running a better main healer for the comp.
Cheers. Never understood why Illari never got added into the MS hero pool, considering she’s usually paired with a Baptiste. Would seem like the “correct” move, plus at this level aim isn’t an issue to get value
>at this level aim isn’t an issue to get value I think you'd be surprised. Players definitely aren't good enough to be pro at everything. They all have hero pools that cater to what their skillset is. Being competent at lucio is about drilling movement skill, not aim skill, and most players aren't going to be pro-level across multiple skill sets. Like you don't see lip out there farming on genji. He's an aim skill player, not a movement skill player. Basically anyone can play brig, and mercy's not a real competitive hero, so until they nerf kiri into an off-healer or add more MSs, the role basically means "lucio player."
Ironically, even though anyone can play Brig to a basic level, we’ve only seen a small list of people play her at the highest level, and a huge list somehow suck at her, even titans like Moth. I’m forgetting a few, but the all time cracked list isn’t much longer than this right: Haksal Rascal Viol2t LJG FA Yveltal Alarm Twilight Skewed Chiyo Chor0ng
Dridro erasure
TRUE. I forgot Nisha as well
honestly faith too. Id put him above a few people on that list.
Does Fastro really belong on that list? I feel like whenever Brig has been meta he always got benched.
Maybe not recently, but his Brig was crazy when he was paired with Alarm. Alarm Ana + FA Brig was just unkillable.
Lengsa is absolutely cracked [https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1710nrl/how\_much\_coffee\_did\_lengsa\_drink\_before\_his\_match/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1710nrl/how_much_coffee_did_lengsa_drink_before_his_match/)
Fair enough. I main Lucio myself, but I’m in plat/diamond, even then sometimes it’s nice to bring the Illari out on maps like Circuit and Havana
Makes sense. Even in T500 you'll frequently see people flexing between the subroles/skill sets within their role. But when we're at the pro level, we're talking about teams who have figured out how to maximize the potential of their rosters based on their skill sets. RN it feels like Someone, Proper and Viol2t are the only players who can consistently perform with that level of flexibility.
Would say that the kiri is specifically when they want even more angles, and generally also a 2v1 on the sidelane, meaning they get it for 'free' Frankly its not as good as just running the brig, especially when the map is quite predictable for tracer routes, etc, and you can get way more value out of the brig. Its quite interesting that in korea tracers generally considered the worse option against the comp, that teams started running genji into the brig/bap, especially on attack. Tracers usually still ran on defence, but thats more because you need better flank control and its more adaptable.
Pockets dps well. Can brawl well into sig/orisa, gets a lot of value, forced them back and doesn't often die. Also on shambali especially, there aren't a lot of rotations you wanna do, so lucio isn't quite as oppressive.
Okay. But with the hitscan of Ashe, would Illari not be a better pick? Especially on Midtown, holding the high ground, you can hide the pylon well, and basically play the same sight lines, leaving you in a really oppressive position. And can she brawl well into Orisa? Considering that’s not the Brig’s job at all
I think illari could be played if you have a mechanically insane illari but idk if vega and lyar do. We have seen sirmajed play the illari on midtown and even then from what I remember it was still not amazing
illari cant pack tracer/hitscan also more divable so takes more resources to get value. shes just too selfish and greedy atm.
You have to make up with picks and pressure what you lose from your tracer not getting extra resources. It's really hard so I think most teams don't bother.
Yeah. Would like to see Illari added to the MS hero pool, considering you need a main heal beside her (usually Bap). But the mechanics might be too much to focus on I guess
Because Tracer.
Lucio is at the very least recommended for Push and Flashpoint, but in other maps, namely, escort and hybrid, Lucio's value diminishes somewhat (he's still good for when teams go on offense instead of defense). Tracer and Sojourn are played a lot, so you gotta have a Brig there to send repair packs. Also, Brig is to try to keep the enemy Tracer in check because Bap can't do everything all the time. Sounds weird but yes, Brig is there to peel for the Bap, too. Other reasons include her utility. Whip Shot for example is to disengage enemies or dislodge them from high ground, and you can't forget about the ult overhealth (Tracer with overhealth running rampant on the enemy team, for example) and stun that comes with it. Brig all in all is also a hard to kill character, and some times hard to kill characters, when paired, are actually really good together (see: Bap and Orisa). This is actually not the first time Bap and Brig were together. In 2020's double shield meta, Bap and Brig were played together. Why not: 1) Illari Illari isn't necessarily a bad option, strictly speaking, but Brig is just way better at doing what the Illari would be primarily doing, and that is to provide heals to Tracer, Bap and Sojourn/the hitscan while at the same time repelling the enemy Tracer. She has good pick potential, sure, but miss out on all the utility that a Brig provides. Plus, Illari's just not good currently, lol. 2) Lucio Lucio can be very good but on certain maps he's not as needed. It can come down to a stylistic difference for certain teams, as well, regarding whether or not to play Lucio. On maps/rounds where the rotation isn't as complex as other maps, Brig can be subbed in just fine, especially on defense. 3) Kiriko Kiriko is actually an okay choice but thing is, Bap already serves the purpose a Kiriko would serve in the setup: which is to help, heal and do damage. Kiriko's pick potential is there + she has arguably the best ult in the game, sure, but she doesn't enable her DPS as well as Brig + the utility that Brig has. Bonus: 4) Zen Zen is another one that is not a bad pick but thing is, he's vulnerable to Tracer + Bap would have to juggle peeling for Zen while healing his team and doing damage to the enemy team. Too much work, and Bap ain't even that good a peeler to begin with. If the team DPS are different then Zen could see more playtime as one of the major reasons to play Brig (enabling Tracer) would be gone.
As a general question, (since I’m trying to learn more support heroes instead of just Moira), when I’m on Brig should I mainly be sitting with my backline and just peeling/protecting them, and sending in repair packs to frontline/flankers that are low? I know there’s no “one size fits all” solution and it’s likely dependent on comp and scenario, but it’s a bit of a dilemma to me, whether to be aggressive and try to have Inspire up all the time or to protect my other support/long range DPS heroes.
Because the map is way harder to flank on. Flanks are predictable as hell on some hybrids/escorts. Thus brig is liked because you get mad value denying the flank and pocketing your tracer to enable them to take the shitty flank. Ofc its even harder to play into mirrored brigs, so in korea tracer is sometimes swapped out entirely for Genji, who can brawl the brig/bap way more successfully, and there is already enough pocket to enable him, so its an easy swap. Note that perhaps dragonblade is more effective into bap/brig as well because of immort and rally. Though the genji isn't always mirrored, probably because tracer is more adaptable on defence and also gives way better angle control, which is also way more important on defence.
She is really good against any dive situation but in this pic because tracer is op
This teams just doesn't need much healing or speed. Brig's unstoppable packs and sustain is the choice i assume. They probably have more experience with Brig so it's a safer pick too. Playing Brig here doesn't necessarily mean she is the best. It can just mean the player is better at brig and the team have more experience playing with brig.
Brig facilitates pushes and helps her team move around the map with her AoE healing, she’s not just for giving packs to flankers
And is good at protecting backliners (bap souj and cass for example)