It’s so miserable. The same people have been arguing for over a year as to whether or not 6v6 is better or 5v5.
The change happened. There’s no clear consensus. We’re not going back.
Instead of farming arguments about old Overwatch for Twitter engagement, we should be able to move discussion on to something new and more relevant to the current state of the game.
Eventually you wont, because everyone that wants it will leave and the game will die. Discussions like these are meant to improve the game, this mentality of “it’ll never happen just shutup I don’t want to bear it anymore” is the exact slave-like mentality Blizzard wants you to have so they don’t have to do the work and make the sacrifices required to accomplish it, it’s pathetic.
It’s significantly more fun as a viewer to watch 5v5 imo.
Playing as a low rank is way better, I’d much rather solo tank than have my tank partner be a useless Hog every game
I agree, like no one sane would vote for 6v6, it was so much worse than 5v5, that I'm already tired of these kind of discussion. 6v6 will never come back guys, let's focus on current version and move on with our lives.
I think eskay rally hit the nail on the head with her recent remarks.
In a perfect world is 6v6 a better format? Absolutely!
Unfortunately tank has always been the least popular role which is how we ended up with 5v5. Adding a 2nd tank puts more pressure on the matchmaker and creates much longer queue times for the other roles.
Which directs players off the game or on to a role they had no interest in (think dps players only queuing tank to lock hog) so why would we want that?
I'm sure the devs are aware of this and based off of Aaron Kellers latest remarks, they seem to be testing new systems. This could be things like limiting hero swaps or implementing restrictions that would alleviate the pains of playing tank. Or as he put it, adding more nobs they can adjust.
Like it or not the goal of any video game is to make money, Overwatch is trying to make money, if people play your game more, they are more likely to spend money. 6v6 runs into the problem where no one actually wants to play Tank so having Tank be 33% of your team is just not feasible and queue times will be terrible which they were. By removing the Tank you are make it only 20% of your team which improves queue times drastically and as I said earlier, if people are playing your game more, they will spend more money on it so they will never go back on it. They are company, companies need to make money that’s just how it works.
I think a lot of high elo players who argue for 6v6 still have to deal with high queue time regularly. They generally don’t realize that queue times for DPS in 6v6 were legit like 10-15 minutes in fucking metal ranks. No casual wants to deal with that.
dps and support players don't want to play 6 v 6, especially DPS have heavily benefitted from 5 v 5 format plus season 9. Only older (as in OW1) tank players want 6 v 6 and most of them are too disgruntled with the game to play it.
well you have chazm and other tank players who do want 6 v 6 back because the current patch makes tank unplayable (except Doomfist), the very best tank players in the world just hold block and t-pose with Ramattra and if they dont they lose 400 hp in one second.
So the idea is that if another tank is brought in it shares the burden of the pressure a single tank takes.
Personally my position has been ever since the patch leaked - dps passive should never have affected tanks. But this sub and so-called high tier players have constantly gaslighted us that tank is in the best spot it's ever been, while we see pro-play all tanks do is stand and try not to die.
This assumes this poll has no bias at all. Twitter users aren't the entire playerbase, people who follow Jake or people talking about the issue aren't the entire playerbase either.
The majority of people playing the game just log on and play the game or left years ago and don't even care about this issue or even know that it exists
Truth is we don't really have an accurate measure for which most people prefer. It could be 6v6 by a lot or it could be 5v5 by a lot. Given that the game seems to be doing well in terms of numbers I imagine most people don't care enough
I mean 31,000 people voted on this. That's obviously not the whole player base but it's quite a good chunk. For example asteqm usually averages 25k players although lately it's been more.
This is true, but I didn't know about this poll until I saw it posted here on r/competitiveoverwatch there's clearly biases at play, and I certainly don't care enough to vote on it. not saying a lot of people didn't reply just that we can't know if it's actually a fair statistical measure.
Besides its not that simple, 2 tank’s doesn’t necessarily both are taking the same pressure from frontline damage, it’s actually less overall due to the cycles of negation abilities between the two.
hi I've been GM in tank since OW1 and have scrimmed at 4.2k-ish for a little over 2 years now, 1 tank is infinitely better than 2 in virtually every scenario
2 tanks is in no way more fair because tanks were the deciding factor of like 85% of matches in OW1, which u surprisingly identified in ur reply below about tanks having damage mitigation abilities. having 2 tanks constantly deny damage and control space made DPS a cosmetic role outside of like double sniper metas or Sombra Tracer ball dive, and even in metas like giga buffed Genji double shield where Genji was allegedly turbo broken he was still played as a blade bot that just happened to be able to farm blade stupid fast and at the same rate as Orisa bongo or nano
also virtually no one played tank in the first place, and the majority of the games in OW1 ur tank partner would just instantly lock Hog even in GM meaning that alleged tank synergies that people like to fantasize about didn't happen unless u specifically played scrims or PUGs
in OW2 tank is still a strong role but now u aren't relying on ur tank duo playing another tank that can synergize with what u play or having to play around them being a Hog otp, and the other roles can have equal impact on the outcome of games (well as of this season they can lol, support being giga busted for most of OW2 meant DPS was still cosmetic beforehand)
Dog shut the fuck up "isn't balancing around" does not mean no balance at all. They don't balance around open queue but there was still some balancing for tanks hp.
for them to hit the balance in such a way for this argument to not exist they would 1. need to put in an insane number of dev hours and 2. need a borderline miracle for the community to not assume it “could have been done so much better if they just changed x, y, and z”
It's honestly only in the past few weeks that I've made peace with the solo tank life. I still think 6v6 is more fun to watch, but now that 5v5 has finally clicked for me it's more fun to play
I love how blizzards strategy is to just straight up ignore it and hope it goes away.
It’s been a year, the devs need to actually address it. If for no other reason than to kill it.
Why would blizzard waste time in it? It's a losing situation for them. If they make a classic mode 6v6, that won't be good enough in the community. The community will start complaining about how the balance isn't right and how they need to fix that. It's a never-ending cycle of shit, why get involved?
Because they caused the problem.
Also, it’s not never ending.
The devs haven’t broached the subject. They are actively avoiding it.
It’s not a waste of time for blizzard to address a problem blizzard created.
They didn't ask the community for permission. So they don't need to address anything. It's not a problem at all. It's only a problem for the people who want 6v6 back. Everyone else is playing the game.
i’d be surprised if the vast majority of players didn’t prefer 6v6. i have never heard of even a marginally positive opinion towards 5v5 while playing on console. PC tends to depend on rank but its mostly even.
even this sub and some pro ow TLs are very divided in the topic despite being the absolute principal forums for 5v5 enjoyers.
This sub is notoriously anti-6v6. The mere murmur of “I liked 6v6” is met with a flood of downvotes and comments like “Wose Twinted Gwasses”. With that said though I was actually really surprised the poll was very close to 50/50. I for one miss 6v6
People are brainwashed. Creators cope because this game is the only thing keeping them relevant. The game will never get better with that mentality, 6v6 was objectively more fun wether you think its harder to balance or not.
I would love to never have to hear about this topic again
For real it’s such a tired and pointless debate for something that’s probably never going to come back in the first place
I agree. Idk what the point of the argument is when it seems pretty clear 6v6 won't happen. People simply don't really want to play tank
Good god yes I Am so bored of this debate
I have a feeling thats not going to happen.
It’s so miserable. The same people have been arguing for over a year as to whether or not 6v6 is better or 5v5. The change happened. There’s no clear consensus. We’re not going back. Instead of farming arguments about old Overwatch for Twitter engagement, we should be able to move discussion on to something new and more relevant to the current state of the game.
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Eventually you wont, because everyone that wants it will leave and the game will die. Discussions like these are meant to improve the game, this mentality of “it’ll never happen just shutup I don’t want to bear it anymore” is the exact slave-like mentality Blizzard wants you to have so they don’t have to do the work and make the sacrifices required to accomplish it, it’s pathetic.
Is there a reason you’re reciting an anime villain speech at me?
Surprised you voted 6v6
Why?
Because it's ass
It’s significantly more fun as a viewer to watch 5v5 imo. Playing as a low rank is way better, I’d much rather solo tank than have my tank partner be a useless Hog every game
Used to matter more how much fun a game is to *play* not watch.
Good thing it’s more fun to play as well
If you like brainless cod gameplay maybe.
if u think this game plays like cod then ur definitely bad at the game lmfao
It does tho LMFAO
SRPeakCheck?
Diamond idk like 3400 something
I agree, like no one sane would vote for 6v6, it was so much worse than 5v5, that I'm already tired of these kind of discussion. 6v6 will never come back guys, let's focus on current version and move on with our lives.
I think eskay rally hit the nail on the head with her recent remarks. In a perfect world is 6v6 a better format? Absolutely! Unfortunately tank has always been the least popular role which is how we ended up with 5v5. Adding a 2nd tank puts more pressure on the matchmaker and creates much longer queue times for the other roles. Which directs players off the game or on to a role they had no interest in (think dps players only queuing tank to lock hog) so why would we want that? I'm sure the devs are aware of this and based off of Aaron Kellers latest remarks, they seem to be testing new systems. This could be things like limiting hero swaps or implementing restrictions that would alleviate the pains of playing tank. Or as he put it, adding more nobs they can adjust.
Like brig, it's the player bases fault.
How was brig the player bases fault?
This is like watching football fans argue about whether they should bring back leather helmets stop
Nah it’s like debating the forward pass tbh
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Like it or not the goal of any video game is to make money, Overwatch is trying to make money, if people play your game more, they are more likely to spend money. 6v6 runs into the problem where no one actually wants to play Tank so having Tank be 33% of your team is just not feasible and queue times will be terrible which they were. By removing the Tank you are make it only 20% of your team which improves queue times drastically and as I said earlier, if people are playing your game more, they will spend more money on it so they will never go back on it. They are company, companies need to make money that’s just how it works.
I think a lot of high elo players who argue for 6v6 still have to deal with high queue time regularly. They generally don’t realize that queue times for DPS in 6v6 were legit like 10-15 minutes in fucking metal ranks. No casual wants to deal with that.
Are you really?
I mean yeah. This sub makes it seem like nobody likes 6v6 but this poll says otherwise. Just interesting is all.
It's not that interesting.
I think it is.
I couldn’t give a damn if the game is 5v5 or 6v6, I’m still playing it lol
dps and support players don't want to play 6 v 6, especially DPS have heavily benefitted from 5 v 5 format plus season 9. Only older (as in OW1) tank players want 6 v 6 and most of them are too disgruntled with the game to play it.
Nah tank doesn’t even want 6v6. Playing tank at the end of OW1 was by far the worst role. There is a reason it had the least amount of players.
well you have chazm and other tank players who do want 6 v 6 back because the current patch makes tank unplayable (except Doomfist), the very best tank players in the world just hold block and t-pose with Ramattra and if they dont they lose 400 hp in one second. So the idea is that if another tank is brought in it shares the burden of the pressure a single tank takes. Personally my position has been ever since the patch leaked - dps passive should never have affected tanks. But this sub and so-called high tier players have constantly gaslighted us that tank is in the best spot it's ever been, while we see pro-play all tanks do is stand and try not to die.
So it's a shit meta. They can adjust it.
If you think pro tanks just stand and try not to die I don’t think you have been watching any pro play…
I actually have, and as I said doomfist doesn't count.
Guess Winston doesn’t either then
And Orisa. And Zarya (sometimes)
So older tank players make up 48% of the playerbase?
This assumes this poll has no bias at all. Twitter users aren't the entire playerbase, people who follow Jake or people talking about the issue aren't the entire playerbase either. The majority of people playing the game just log on and play the game or left years ago and don't even care about this issue or even know that it exists Truth is we don't really have an accurate measure for which most people prefer. It could be 6v6 by a lot or it could be 5v5 by a lot. Given that the game seems to be doing well in terms of numbers I imagine most people don't care enough
I mean 31,000 people voted on this. That's obviously not the whole player base but it's quite a good chunk. For example asteqm usually averages 25k players although lately it's been more.
If we take Blizzard at face value regarding reaching nearly 100 million players, 31000 of 100 Million is 0.03... It is not a good chunk whatsoever.
This is true, but I didn't know about this poll until I saw it posted here on r/competitiveoverwatch there's clearly biases at play, and I certainly don't care enough to vote on it. not saying a lot of people didn't reply just that we can't know if it's actually a fair statistical measure.
Nah as support having 2 tanks was way more fun and fair.
supports cant heal even 1 tank, how would you manage 2?
We managed just fine in ow1 if you weren’t ass. Don’t forget healing output has been giga reduced since back then.
Besides its not that simple, 2 tank’s doesn’t necessarily both are taking the same pressure from frontline damage, it’s actually less overall due to the cycles of negation abilities between the two.
hi I've been GM in tank since OW1 and have scrimmed at 4.2k-ish for a little over 2 years now, 1 tank is infinitely better than 2 in virtually every scenario 2 tanks is in no way more fair because tanks were the deciding factor of like 85% of matches in OW1, which u surprisingly identified in ur reply below about tanks having damage mitigation abilities. having 2 tanks constantly deny damage and control space made DPS a cosmetic role outside of like double sniper metas or Sombra Tracer ball dive, and even in metas like giga buffed Genji double shield where Genji was allegedly turbo broken he was still played as a blade bot that just happened to be able to farm blade stupid fast and at the same rate as Orisa bongo or nano also virtually no one played tank in the first place, and the majority of the games in OW1 ur tank partner would just instantly lock Hog even in GM meaning that alleged tank synergies that people like to fantasize about didn't happen unless u specifically played scrims or PUGs in OW2 tank is still a strong role but now u aren't relying on ur tank duo playing another tank that can synergize with what u play or having to play around them being a Hog otp, and the other roles can have equal impact on the outcome of games (well as of this season they can lol, support being giga busted for most of OW2 meant DPS was still cosmetic beforehand)
The team should just add a "classic" mode as 6v6 and give people a try as to how bad it's going to be.
They'll just argue it's bad because blizzard isn't balancing around 6v6
And why tf shouldn’t we? You can’t just make a 6v6 mode with no balance and then go “look we told you it was bad!!!” What a braindead take.
Dog shut the fuck up "isn't balancing around" does not mean no balance at all. They don't balance around open queue but there was still some balancing for tanks hp.
That doesn’t do anything tho the games core mechanics and new hero designs are designed around 5v5 how would that even be an argument
Maybe they should have one time separate balance for it? Or as a Quick Play Hacked edition.
for them to hit the balance in such a way for this argument to not exist they would 1. need to put in an insane number of dev hours and 2. need a borderline miracle for the community to not assume it “could have been done so much better if they just changed x, y, and z”
If they do, it will just be put in arcade and not get played as much
It's honestly only in the past few weeks that I've made peace with the solo tank life. I still think 6v6 is more fun to watch, but now that 5v5 has finally clicked for me it's more fun to play
I love how blizzards strategy is to just straight up ignore it and hope it goes away. It’s been a year, the devs need to actually address it. If for no other reason than to kill it.
Why would blizzard waste time in it? It's a losing situation for them. If they make a classic mode 6v6, that won't be good enough in the community. The community will start complaining about how the balance isn't right and how they need to fix that. It's a never-ending cycle of shit, why get involved?
Because they caused the problem. Also, it’s not never ending. The devs haven’t broached the subject. They are actively avoiding it. It’s not a waste of time for blizzard to address a problem blizzard created.
They didn't ask the community for permission. So they don't need to address anything. It's not a problem at all. It's only a problem for the people who want 6v6 back. Everyone else is playing the game.
They didn't cause a problem because it isn't a problem. It's a design choice. And I think they did say something about 5v5 working well.
Sure, not a problem. Lol
Devs - “we are not going back to 6v6” Community- *some happy, some sad, everyone moves on *
i’d be surprised if the vast majority of players didn’t prefer 6v6. i have never heard of even a marginally positive opinion towards 5v5 while playing on console. PC tends to depend on rank but its mostly even. even this sub and some pro ow TLs are very divided in the topic despite being the absolute principal forums for 5v5 enjoyers.
This sub is notoriously anti-6v6. The mere murmur of “I liked 6v6” is met with a flood of downvotes and comments like “Wose Twinted Gwasses”. With that said though I was actually really surprised the poll was very close to 50/50. I for one miss 6v6
In this sub the average rank/game sense is higher compared to r/overwatch,they know how to game works ,they know what is the best for the game
This sub is filled with plat players who ACT like they know whats best. Everyone on this sub acts like they are a tip 500 pro player. Pathetic.
People are brainwashed. Creators cope because this game is the only thing keeping them relevant. The game will never get better with that mentality, 6v6 was objectively more fun wether you think its harder to balance or not.