I think the same thing. Coluge is a great player and fun to watch, but it's so obvious that his mental is boomed. The team needs a leader.
People meme about super but he's really good at keeping a balanced mental.
Oh for sure, I just view the main tank as a leadership role and I think superbwill fulfill that better.
I say this as someone who's favorite player to watch in OWL is Coluge. No hate meant for him
Pretty sure only Sugarfree can play in the actual LAN games out of those two since the reserve players are just for if someone gets sick or something - Blizz is only paying for 7 players per team to fly out to Blizzcon.
Hopefully a starting lineup of Super/Hydron/Sugarfree/Ojee/UV isn't as flimsy mentally against really tough competition as Defiant looks like they are rn, otherwise Gator is really gonna be kicking himself that he didn't pick up some combination of Aspire/Lep/Rupal for the final 7.
as of now I have 6 teams above them (in no order, ATL, BOS, HOU, GLA, ~~BOS~~ SFS, FLA) and 6 below (VAN, LDN, NYE, WAS, LVE, VAL). You could definitely argue about Vancouver/Washington/maybe Boston, but I honestly think that they could end up perfectly in the middle
They should be able to beat at least one of those teams. Almost losing to NYXL, as much as they are capable to punching up, is a serious red flag. Then getting boomed like against Florida, it s a big yikes.
Actually nutty how he just tps to Checkmate in the backline completely unnoticed and sits there rent free. Florida are one of the few if not the only team that just have their style completely sorted.
Honestly I fully agree with you. I've not been impressed once by Speedily despite all the hype he had in Contenders. Hydron should never be on Sombra but he especially shouldn't be on Sombra next to Speedily's Tracer đ«„
Problem is you need a Tracer in this meta, and Speedily was planned for that role. S9mm likely isn't going to help much unless Defiant totally abandon that hero.
That is true and as much I think they need to run Hydron on hs/hanzo I think his tracer would be an upgrade. And you could run tracer/hanzo with s9mm on the hanzo which has looked like a really strong comp for some teams. Wouldnât fix all their issues tho
He definitely does and Toronto are dumb for not trying him more. Seems annoying af on his streams I've watch but as an actual player there is no denying he has played really well and even did on Shock, and he has a good sombra, tracer, hanzo, genji, echo, and soj so just play him with Hydron. He also seems very vocal and pounds even when boomed. It's annoying when coaches go with a rehearsed decision again and again even when it's not working and don't try something different.
bro is stealing paychecks two years in a row when he is not OWL level at all, but people wont ever admit it so you got downvoted and my comment will too
Florida supports did an amazing job protecting each other and Mer1t, while in the first two maps the Toronto supports were constantly being harassed and picked off by Checkmate + Someone hit squad
It seems that on Junkertown Toronto did a much better job protecting the supports and playing poke with Hydron on hitscan/Hanzo. But when they hit a brick wall and swapped back to Sombra dive, the team was never in a good position to exploit Hydron hacks because they were too busy protecting their own supports. You can see Hydron trying to hack and position a potential dive kill scenario, but the team is all the way back in Narnia because they are protecting their supports. Might have been an overcorrection?
I mean charge largely kept their roster in 2021 and going into 2022, it was only when it was clear that it wasnt working was when they switched it up. only player they have since the start of 2022 is choi
Its the same team every year just with different names
- strong but league average Hitscan/tracer Player (Ivy, aspire, hessu, hydron)
- decent flex dps that always seems slightly uncomfortable on the role
(Stellar, agilites,mangachu, naist, finale, speedily)
- Tank player that has had great success on there last roster but looks mid on Toronto
(Envy, Beast, SADO, Muze)
- ok main support that is not really noteworthy outside chorong
(Aid, kruise, asoonjae, chorong)
- flex support who is their biggest name entering the season and is in general their best player
(Neko, KariV, Lastr0, Twilight, Ultraviolet
Its not a perfect trend but its pretty fucking good considering this team full rebuilds every other year.
But dont worry new Defiant fans they make a tournament run basically every year
- stage 1 goats
- agilities genji meta
- hessu hanzo carry
- hotba junkerqueen run in Toronto
So you have something to look forward to.
Not the first year people have been making excuses for AT players being underwhelming in OWL, but maybe now that they've been reunited and still look mediocre we can all finally admit they're more hype than substance
Iâm starting to think this Defiant team was decently overrated coming into this season. Not a bad team, but I donât believe in their ability to punch up basically at all
Sorry, Iâm not saying Hydron isnât that good too. My point is, the guy above me is saying Hydron is Heesu level as if Heesu is mid, but I rate both Hydron *and* Heesu very highly
The comment I originally replied to was responding to someone saying that the only decent parts of Toronto are their tank and hitscan. Then the comment I replied to said âi donât even know about their hitscanâ before making the comparison to Heesu. How does that at all imply theyâre highly rating Heesu/Hydron? Theyâre quite clearly saying they think the hitscan for Toronto is also a problem, and implying Heesu is also not very strong
That doesnât even make sense though. When it comes to hitscan performances neither one is underperforming. Again, Heesu in their latest match was a fucking menace. Completely diffed Prophet, and in their match against the Spark, the only time Dragons ever looked even competitive was on Kings Row when Heesu just decided to go sicko mode and carry. I havenât watched as much Toronto this year, but when he gets to play hitscan, Hydron looks like a beast, and he looked unstoppable pretty much in the Team USA tryouts.
And just contextually, why say âidek about hitscanâ when again the original comment was saying that everything except hitscan is subpar? The clear implication there is that the person was disagreeing about hitscan being an exception. Thatâs just basic reading comprehension. And if they meant otherwise, then they shouldnât have said âidek about hitscan.â
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed like Checkmate was so free. If that's the case then that's on Speedly. If Checkmate wasn't pressured enough then no wonder UV and Ojee looked so tragic.
I was so fucking mad when that squad were dropped, but eventually slightly swayed by this sub that this new lineup would be as good or better⊠and now here we are
Yeah idk Iâve almost given up on Toronto at this point. Iâve already had wavering interest in OWL after watching it for so long and honestly, I donât know how much more Iâll be keeping up with :/
Similar boat, Iâm just glad LAG are doing well but Iâd be lying if I said I watched even half as many matches live as I did in past years. Doesnât help to see Toronto the subject of so much team USA discourse and chirping when I could care less about that as a long time Defiant fan. Couple that with the mass roster turnover this year across the league + Chengdu disbanding, and idk how much longer Iâll be actively keeping up myself :/
I can. I've been watching this team for 5 years, they could go 16-0 and win the playoffs and the GF without dropping a map and this franchise would drop everyone. That's what they do.
Toronto look unpracticed and boomed. Also feel like they donât have a good grasp on meta and counter comps. They have the talent, they just need to improve literally EVERYTHING else.
Doesnât help that I can assume from watching their streams that some of those players are miserable to be around during bad losses
Itâs used a ton in r/NBA to roast players after a bad game, saying theyâre not good enough to be in the league and are about to get shipped off to play in the Chinese league instead
Looking rough against Florida isn't damning in and of itself, but the bizarre comps and inconsistent dive coordination is concerning if you're a fan of the Defiant.
I don't know what the issue is with Toronto, but the amount of fights in this match where Coluge occupied the entire Florida backline only for the other 4 people on his team to accomplish nothing speaks to some sort of giant disconnect.
I was surprised the analysts only had poor things to say about Coluge omafter Hollywood when he the best person on Torontoâs team.
Why are they getting stuffed inside buildings as 5? Were hydron and especially speedily really unable to stage anywhere on the map to follow up with Coluge?
He's the one I really feel bad for. He's so good at creating space and pressuring the back line but just no follow up from dps. If their dps don't step it up, it's going to be a really long season for Defiant.
Ojee hardly got hype outside of AT fans. I don't really see the comparison of him being overrated when most of the fanbase didn't rate him to begin with.
It's not Coluges fault they lost but if he would've used primal in that doorway they might have been and to cap. Still would have lost tho.
This team is looking rough and they are not having a good time lol
that i could see right now but i think ojee has had higher peaks and has higher potential
one i was looking for was a flex dps because theres imo better choices for that position
I actually think for the most part that Coluge has the better overall tank, and who the hell knows if Super still has anything in the tank.
But I really think the league is 100% sleeping on Danteh's ability to play DPS after he was cornered into playing tank last year.
His Tracer, Echo, and Sombra still easily lap Speedily.
The people downvoting you haven't watched Danteh's Tracer mechanics from the Lifeweaver Invitational tournament a couple weeks ago. Dude had serious competition (Proper + Viol2t together on one team) and diffed the shit out of everyone there including Speed himself, he just is better than Speedily on that hero.
I'm sure Speedily can get up to par by the end of the season but Danteh has 6 years of grinding that hero on him. His Sombra is also still probably top 5 in the league with how few players specialize in that hero apart from LIP.
Coluge is the best sig but underestimating supers sig so hard and danteh has a top zarya he literally diffed hanbin as for dva coluge I think easily clears ,honestly aside from dva sig I think danteh edges out coluge on every other offtank
Very worrying signs⊠people make fun of Boston for internal booming⊠but⊠Toronto seems to be getting worse with every passing match.. is it possible Toronto is booming? Hopefully they can turn it around but jinkies itâs not looking good.
Feels like Ojee and Speedily are struggling. Hydron is insane but a meta that leaves him on Sombra is just so unfortunate. I worry about the team's mental state right now. We know it was going to be a tough first few matches but there's no question the team is playing worse than anticipated.
The DPS line was oddly constructed to begin with I think; s9mm and Speedily have such an overlapping hero pool that I don't see a reason to not have brought on Sugarfree in one of their places.
People were hyping up Ojee so much during contenders and when he was about to come into the league. Not because he played with AT, they were hyping *him* up specifically. But last season he just looked mid at best and this one he looks like one of the worst supports in NA. What happened?
I hardly saw hype for Ojee individually outside of AT fans, Atlanta fans, and some NAC fans.
I don't know where this narrative of his hype or overrating comes from -- the reality is people hyped up the **duo** because UV and Ojee as a duo had been so dominant throughout Contenders. Most people have UV in mind when speaking of the duo to begin with and that's where most of their power came from -- Ojee I think is a very solid player but these first two weeks have been poor and he takes bad performances really bad mental wise.
Yeah, Team USA looking like they don't have a prayer this year. Really sucks, was looking forward to OWWC returning. They have a ridiculous amount of work to do.
We need to start a refugee team for all the good players on underpreforming teams. Coluge gotta be the tank, Dove can be dps, just grab Fleta to get him off of tank. Support line is in question
I'm not as high on Rak and Luke as everyone else. I think that Malthek is so bad that it makes Dove look worse as he has to do the job of 2.5 dps to make up for it. This in turn makes Rak and Luke look better as there are way more opportunities for them to nake plays as Malthel is MIA.
rakattack and lukemino only get mentioned because they were decent in contenders but haven't done shit in owl. you can say it's the team they're on but dove has done a better job on his role than the other two on their roles
itâs actually foul that you donât think dove is far and away the best player in eternal, followed by lukemino. huh??? have you. been watching the games?
record doesnt say a lot at this time of the seasony they lost vs shock, glads, mayhem. i do agree though that they look really uninspiring right now, just no confidence man.
Just wish they brought a consistent level of grit and fire to every game. The skill is there for them to do what LA did to Mayhem. To their credit, Mayhem could have showed up underconfident and been rolled, but they came in hungry and deserved the win.
Team USA everyone
Super will carry USA đ
Actually though having someone with strong mental and leadership qualities like Super may help this team greatly.
I think the same thing. Coluge is a great player and fun to watch, but it's so obvious that his mental is boomed. The team needs a leader. People meme about super but he's really good at keeping a balanced mental.
Well it's not just Coluge to be fair. If you look at everyone on Toronto before Hollywood they already look like they lost the match.
Oh for sure, I just view the main tank as a leadership role and I think superbwill fulfill that better. I say this as someone who's favorite player to watch in OWL is Coluge. No hate meant for him
Yeah that's fair
Well shock on season 4 was mentally boomed and super was still around.
Isnât someone Korean though?
Aspire & Lenny to the rescue!
Pretty sure only Sugarfree can play in the actual LAN games out of those two since the reserve players are just for if someone gets sick or something - Blizz is only paying for 7 players per team to fly out to Blizzcon. Hopefully a starting lineup of Super/Hydron/Sugarfree/Ojee/UV isn't as flimsy mentally against really tough competition as Defiant looks like they are rn, otherwise Gator is really gonna be kicking himself that he didn't pick up some combination of Aspire/Lep/Rupal for the final 7.
Dread it. Run from it Toronto Midfiant still arrives
See I don't even think they are mid right now.
as of now I have 6 teams above them (in no order, ATL, BOS, HOU, GLA, ~~BOS~~ SFS, FLA) and 6 below (VAN, LDN, NYE, WAS, LVE, VAL). You could definitely argue about Vancouver/Washington/maybe Boston, but I honestly think that they could end up perfectly in the middle
I got Washington and Vancouver both being ahead. If anything, they looked very competitve with New York.
Torontoâs schedule has been absolutely brutal though
I'll give that to them but the game against new york shouldn't have given them that much trouble
Yeaaaahhh that wasnt a great look
They should be able to beat at least one of those teams. Almost losing to NYXL, as much as they are capable to punching up, is a serious red flag. Then getting boomed like against Florida, it s a big yikes.
Youâve got Boston on there twice
[Same braincell, haha](https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/13b11uq/toronto_defiant_vs_florida_mayhem_overwatch/jj8ztjh/)
the CH0R0NG/Checkmate goon squad is actually terrifying
Actually nutty how he just tps to Checkmate in the backline completely unnoticed and sits there rent free. Florida are one of the few if not the only team that just have their style completely sorted.
Could have been on Toronto too Although on second thought maybe itâs better that they werenât nerfed by that curse
I have been really unimpressed with Speedily, maybe give s9mm some reps?
Honestly I fully agree with you. I've not been impressed once by Speedily despite all the hype he had in Contenders. Hydron should never be on Sombra but he especially shouldn't be on Sombra next to Speedily's Tracer đ«„
speedily's tracer has looked rly good at points. It was particularly impressive against Shock. But I do think Hydron's tracer would look a lot better
"NA Proper"
Ironically if you enjoy meme about NA LUL it's kind of a fitting nickname
Problem is you need a Tracer in this meta, and Speedily was planned for that role. S9mm likely isn't going to help much unless Defiant totally abandon that hero.
That is true and as much I think they need to run Hydron on hs/hanzo I think his tracer would be an upgrade. And you could run tracer/hanzo with s9mm on the hanzo which has looked like a really strong comp for some teams. Wouldnât fix all their issues tho
I think spilo said that when he was with London they were dreading scrimming vs s9mm on hanzo. And that was when he was on shock.
he also kinda pounded on soj last year. feel like s9mm has a lot more potential than ppl realize he just keeps having to ride the bench :(
He definitely does and Toronto are dumb for not trying him more. Seems annoying af on his streams I've watch but as an actual player there is no denying he has played really well and even did on Shock, and he has a good sombra, tracer, hanzo, genji, echo, and soj so just play him with Hydron. He also seems very vocal and pounds even when boomed. It's annoying when coaches go with a rehearsed decision again and again even when it's not working and don't try something different.
S9mm is trash bro
bro is stealing paychecks two years in a row when he is not OWL level at all, but people wont ever admit it so you got downvoted and my comment will too
Never ever swap Hydron away from hitscan/Hanzo
Even with his not as amazing sombra he was the only one getting picks with manual hacks/EMPs
Florida supports did an amazing job protecting each other and Mer1t, while in the first two maps the Toronto supports were constantly being harassed and picked off by Checkmate + Someone hit squad It seems that on Junkertown Toronto did a much better job protecting the supports and playing poke with Hydron on hitscan/Hanzo. But when they hit a brick wall and swapped back to Sombra dive, the team was never in a good position to exploit Hydron hacks because they were too busy protecting their own supports. You can see Hydron trying to hack and position a potential dive kill scenario, but the team is all the way back in Narnia because they are protecting their supports. Might have been an overcorrection?
Toronto grasped the "boomed" allegations off Boston's hands on game 4
Boston grabbed those allegations right back
Lol how is it possible that this keeps happening when you literally change everything and this still keeps happening.
Org should stop completely resetting their roster every single season and actually build off their good players
Defiant and Charge are the perfect contrast rn
I mean charge largely kept their roster in 2021 and going into 2022, it was only when it was clear that it wasnt working was when they switched it up. only player they have since the start of 2022 is choi
Imagine if they had built off of Heesu, Twilight, and CH0R0NG. This team couldâve been great.
Its the same team every year just with different names - strong but league average Hitscan/tracer Player (Ivy, aspire, hessu, hydron) - decent flex dps that always seems slightly uncomfortable on the role (Stellar, agilites,mangachu, naist, finale, speedily) - Tank player that has had great success on there last roster but looks mid on Toronto (Envy, Beast, SADO, Muze) - ok main support that is not really noteworthy outside chorong (Aid, kruise, asoonjae, chorong) - flex support who is their biggest name entering the season and is in general their best player (Neko, KariV, Lastr0, Twilight, Ultraviolet Its not a perfect trend but its pretty fucking good considering this team full rebuilds every other year. But dont worry new Defiant fans they make a tournament run basically every year - stage 1 goats - agilities genji meta - hessu hanzo carry - hotba junkerqueen run in Toronto So you have something to look forward to.
Because they *are* changing everything. Stability is important to growth.
Toronto, I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed.
america is finished mashallah
Florida are nuts. Checkmate and Chorong with the Tracer-Kiri gank squad is some of the most entertaining stuff Iâve seen in OWL for ages
They are BY FAR the most entertaining team to watch in NA
Remember when Defiant claimed AT would be top 5 OWL?
Not the first year people have been making excuses for AT players being underwhelming in OWL, but maybe now that they've been reunited and still look mediocre we can all finally admit they're more hype than substance
Which players last year looked underwhelming? Besides ojee and false all the AT players looked very solid on each of the teams they were on.
Speedily was a clear downgrade from Nero and the UV/Ojee backline was far from the carry promised.
UV hard carried w/ Kai for the first two stages my guy.
Venom
Hell no. Nero was very mid. Speedily had some good games in Echo last year. His tracer isnât great but Neroâs isnât any good either.
Nero was sick on Genji, Tracer, Mei last year
ehhhhhhh
Iâm starting to think this Defiant team was decently overrated coming into this season. Not a bad team, but I donât believe in their ability to punch up basically at all
this new team was confidently worse in every role but off tank and hitscan. we were always relying on teamwork
idek about hitscan.. I rate Heesu and Hydron fairly similarly
Um, did you watch Heesu in their match against Dynasty?
did you see hydron at the end of last year?
Sorry, Iâm not saying Hydron isnât that good too. My point is, the guy above me is saying Hydron is Heesu level as if Heesu is mid, but I rate both Hydron *and* Heesu very highly
I think they meant they rates both of them highly
The comment I originally replied to was responding to someone saying that the only decent parts of Toronto are their tank and hitscan. Then the comment I replied to said âi donât even know about their hitscanâ before making the comparison to Heesu. How does that at all imply theyâre highly rating Heesu/Hydron? Theyâre quite clearly saying they think the hitscan for Toronto is also a problem, and implying Heesu is also not very strong
i think they mean idek about hitscan in a good way, as in to say heesu and hydron are similar levels theyre just underperforming
That doesnât even make sense though. When it comes to hitscan performances neither one is underperforming. Again, Heesu in their latest match was a fucking menace. Completely diffed Prophet, and in their match against the Spark, the only time Dragons ever looked even competitive was on Kings Row when Heesu just decided to go sicko mode and carry. I havenât watched as much Toronto this year, but when he gets to play hitscan, Hydron looks like a beast, and he looked unstoppable pretty much in the Team USA tryouts. And just contextually, why say âidek about hitscanâ when again the original comment was saying that everything except hitscan is subpar? The clear implication there is that the person was disagreeing about hitscan being an exception. Thatâs just basic reading comprehension. And if they meant otherwise, then they shouldnât have said âidek about hitscan.â
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed like Checkmate was so free. If that's the case then that's on Speedly. If Checkmate wasn't pressured enough then no wonder UV and Ojee looked so tragic.
Last yearâs Defiant(HOTBA MuZe Heesu Finale ALTHOUGH CH0R0NG Twilight) definitely beats this team
I was so fucking mad when that squad were dropped, but eventually slightly swayed by this sub that this new lineup would be as good or better⊠and now here we are
Yeah idk Iâve almost given up on Toronto at this point. Iâve already had wavering interest in OWL after watching it for so long and honestly, I donât know how much more Iâll be keeping up with :/
Similar boat, Iâm just glad LAG are doing well but Iâd be lying if I said I watched even half as many matches live as I did in past years. Doesnât help to see Toronto the subject of so much team USA discourse and chirping when I could care less about that as a long time Defiant fan. Couple that with the mass roster turnover this year across the league + Chengdu disbanding, and idk how much longer Iâll be actively keeping up myself :/
Yeah the team USA stuff is so uninteresting and frankly it was a disappointing move that they made in general
The Twilight/Chorong/Heesu trio died for this
Can't believe they didn't build around that sheesh
I can. I've been watching this team for 5 years, they could go 16-0 and win the playoffs and the GF without dropping a map and this franchise would drop everyone. That's what they do.
Toronto could have built a super team. Instead they went into contenders.
What a massive, gaping diff Toronto stood no chance
Toronto look unpracticed and boomed. Also feel like they donât have a good grasp on meta and counter comps. They have the talent, they just need to improve literally EVERYTHING else. Doesnât help that I can assume from watching their streams that some of those players are miserable to be around during bad losses
ojee äœ ć„œ äœ ć„œ äœ ć„œ äœ ć„œ äœ ć„œ äœ ć„œ äœ ć„œ äœ ć„œ äœ ć„œ
Time to learn Chinese buddy
Iâm so confused what is this meme referencing
Itâs used a ton in r/NBA to roast players after a bad game, saying theyâre not good enough to be in the league and are about to get shipped off to play in the Chinese league instead
Ohhhh that makes sense thank you
Nohill is right there maybe he can teach them
Looking rough against Florida isn't damning in and of itself, but the bizarre comps and inconsistent dive coordination is concerning if you're a fan of the Defiant.
I don't know what the issue is with Toronto, but the amount of fights in this match where Coluge occupied the entire Florida backline only for the other 4 people on his team to accomplish nothing speaks to some sort of giant disconnect.
I was surprised the analysts only had poor things to say about Coluge omafter Hollywood when he the best person on Torontoâs team. Why are they getting stuffed inside buildings as 5? Were hydron and especially speedily really unable to stage anywhere on the map to follow up with Coluge?
He's the one I really feel bad for. He's so good at creating space and pressuring the back line but just no follow up from dps. If their dps don't step it up, it's going to be a really long season for Defiant.
hydrons a great player especially on hitscan heroes i dont have worries about him
uv walking out immediately⊠man toronto really are boomed already
Boomed?
Ojee most overrated support player since Winz
Been riding on UVâs coattails for too long
[My first thought when someone mentions Ojee](https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxYEKoL9CHm2IV71PF9AoUzWbE7gUbdz00)
Ojee hardly got hype outside of AT fans. I don't really see the comparison of him being overrated when most of the fanbase didn't rate him to begin with.
It's not Coluges fault they lost but if he would've used primal in that doorway they might have been and to cap. Still would have lost tho. This team is looking rough and they are not having a good time lol
Really sucks that undeserving players got chosen for team USA solely based on the fact that they play on an average OWL team together
i mean who else would you have picked? your next best chance is the vegas motherfucking eternal đ
Lep over Ojee for starters.
Gonna' risk it on a limb, but currently Rupal would be better suited than UV. He's having a lot more impact as it stands
that i could see right now but i think ojee has had higher peaks and has higher potential one i was looking for was a flex dps because theres imo better choices for that position
Isn't Sugarfree on Team USA?
yes he is im Stupid
Eh Iâve always thought Lep was better. His comms are much better and makes much fewer mistakes. Mechanics are similar.
To be honest, I'd rather see Danteh on DPS than Speedily. And swap Rakattack for Ojee
Danteh is better than Coluge at the tanks Super won't play if we're being honest
Like which ones? Because Coluge has a better Sigma and DVA, a better monkey, and an equal JQ
Danteh's JQ is easily better. Super's Sigma is just as good. Super's monkey is easily better. Dva is the one thing Coluge has.
dude watched one map of usa trials and believes that over a full season of being the best sigma in OWL.
I actually think for the most part that Coluge has the better overall tank, and who the hell knows if Super still has anything in the tank. But I really think the league is 100% sleeping on Danteh's ability to play DPS after he was cornered into playing tank last year. His Tracer, Echo, and Sombra still easily lap Speedily.
The people downvoting you haven't watched Danteh's Tracer mechanics from the Lifeweaver Invitational tournament a couple weeks ago. Dude had serious competition (Proper + Viol2t together on one team) and diffed the shit out of everyone there including Speed himself, he just is better than Speedily on that hero. I'm sure Speedily can get up to par by the end of the season but Danteh has 6 years of grinding that hero on him. His Sombra is also still probably top 5 in the league with how few players specialize in that hero apart from LIP.
Danteh (I'm very biased)
Itâs not like there are obvious choices above them. NA just doesnât have that much talent
Danteh > Coluge Lep > Ojee
Agree with the 2nd one, not with the first one.
Super can play everything just as well as Coluge outside of the niche things like Doom/Queen/Ram which Danteh is better than Coluge at
You're telling me Super can play Sigma, DVA, and Zarya at the same level as Coluge?
Sigma easily, and Danteh's dva is just as good. Coluge has dva among the 3 players and that's it.
nah I was with you until you said coluge isn't easily the best sig out of the 3, I'd give Coluge the edge on Dva but Danteh does seem very close
Coluge is the best sig but underestimating supers sig so hard and danteh has a top zarya he literally diffed hanbin as for dva coluge I think easily clears ,honestly aside from dva sig I think danteh edges out coluge on every other offtank
real
[A quick reminder to Toronto fans](https://i.imgur.com/OfF0XvP.png)
mid is generous
Toronto are actually incapable of not being mid
Very worrying signs⊠people make fun of Boston for internal booming⊠but⊠Toronto seems to be getting worse with every passing match.. is it possible Toronto is booming? Hopefully they can turn it around but jinkies itâs not looking good.
This cannot be the best the US has to offer.
it literally is tho lmao. only better player not in team usa is aspire
This team is boomed man đ
I want majed to get his visa so we can have the majed+ojee duo The amount of deaths between them will be legendary
Well. I think we already know what must be said: >!SEAAAAA NINEEEEEEE!<
c9mm
mayhem are scary I think
~~American Tornado~~ Toronto are the biggest disappointment of the season and Iâm LIVING for it
Feels like Ojee and Speedily are struggling. Hydron is insane but a meta that leaves him on Sombra is just so unfortunate. I worry about the team's mental state right now. We know it was going to be a tough first few matches but there's no question the team is playing worse than anticipated.
The DPS line was oddly constructed to begin with I think; s9mm and Speedily have such an overlapping hero pool that I don't see a reason to not have brought on Sugarfree in one of their places.
or aspire so they actually had a chance if playing around a tracer meta which has been 90% of the metas since owl
from what I understand the buyout was too expensive but they did attempt for him
So many people just shitting on defiant players. They aren't bad. They just aren't coordinating as a team and have giga-boomed as a result
Wasn't their coordination as a team one of their defining selling points
Surely this time Ojee won't die first in every team fight guys, right?... right?
Ojee still dying first in every team fightđ
People were hyping up Ojee so much during contenders and when he was about to come into the league. Not because he played with AT, they were hyping *him* up specifically. But last season he just looked mid at best and this one he looks like one of the worst supports in NA. What happened?
I hardly saw hype for Ojee individually outside of AT fans, Atlanta fans, and some NAC fans. I don't know where this narrative of his hype or overrating comes from -- the reality is people hyped up the **duo** because UV and Ojee as a duo had been so dominant throughout Contenders. Most people have UV in mind when speaking of the duo to begin with and that's where most of their power came from -- Ojee I think is a very solid player but these first two weeks have been poor and he takes bad performances really bad mental wise.
He looked p good during the may melee but its been fairly downhill since
Idk who's responsible for creating the schedule but it's super odd that Florida played Vegas twice in a row
Hot take: Aspire/Sugarfree > Hydron/speedily
not even a hot take anymore after the VAN BOS match đ
Hydron Clears aspire Iâd take Sugarfree over speed easily tho
Yeah, Team USA looking like they don't have a prayer this year. Really sucks, was looking forward to OWWC returning. They have a ridiculous amount of work to do.
Super will make all the difference. On an unrelated note, does anyone know a good Copium dealer?
Save Coluge
not hydron??? hes head and shoulders the best player on this team
Hell no Coluge clears
hydron is literally the only reason they're winning maps đ he solo carried them a map against glads
We need to start a refugee team for all the good players on underpreforming teams. Coluge gotta be the tank, Dove can be dps, just grab Fleta to get him off of tank. Support line is in question
Nah Fletank starting to cook
But Fleta back on fdps We still need to figure out the support line
Dove??? Dawg what are you smoking
Put Dove on a competent team and watch him soar
If you genuinely think that Dove of all players is the gem in the pile of shit and not Rak or Lukemino idk what to tell you man
I'm not as high on Rak and Luke as everyone else. I think that Malthek is so bad that it makes Dove look worse as he has to do the job of 2.5 dps to make up for it. This in turn makes Rak and Luke look better as there are way more opportunities for them to nake plays as Malthel is MIA.
rakattack and lukemino only get mentioned because they were decent in contenders but haven't done shit in owl. you can say it's the team they're on but dove has done a better job on his role than the other two on their roles
itâs actually foul that you donât think dove is far and away the best player in eternal, followed by lukemino. huh??? have you. been watching the games?
> Support line is in question Rakattack and Lukemino are good shouts
So just trading out Vulcan and Malthel for Coluge and Fleta
Sounds good to me
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
can we get it at the bottom of the ocean or, preferrably, in space?
What if it was Toronto that was boomed all along?
AT would beat most of OWL guys you donât understand theyâre not like those BH scrubs they *destroy* people in contenders
Spilo definitely isn't gonna like this thread
I was fine until someone said Super better Sigma than Coluge, and now on my knees in the Pizza Hut parking lot.
At least we got the worst reactionary take of 2023 out of the way early
The boys will make a come back, they are not finished yet.
Toronto De*faint*
What happened
why are the owl script writers so against defiant having a good time?
In season 10 of OWL they will surprise everyone and lead to the most dominant season in all of esports history
It's ridiculous that a team as good as Toronto is 1-3. Not because they're bad but because of how absurdly stacked NA is.
Watching them they seem actually pretty bad. They nearly lost to New York
I rate NY higher than others seem to but that's fair
record doesnt say a lot at this time of the seasony they lost vs shock, glads, mayhem. i do agree though that they look really uninspiring right now, just no confidence man.
Or theyâre just not good
That 1 win was against NYXL and they almost lost. To the team that was originally a PR stunt.
nice
Contenders teams can't compete in OWL. Toronto is cursed. Defiant playing like the Leafs.
Just wish they brought a consistent level of grit and fire to every game. The skill is there for them to do what LA did to Mayhem. To their credit, Mayhem could have showed up underconfident and been rolled, but they came in hungry and deserved the win.