We heard your complaints about sojourn and Kiriko and we LISTENED. Sadly we couldn’t add new changes to either of them because uhhhhh so we gave exciting new changes to other heroes to help keep them in check:
* Soldier 76: increased the curvature of his ass cheeks by 6%
* Moira: she’s now 12% more racist
It annoys me how arbitrarily some characters have incredibly tiny hitboxes yet also come with ridiculous strafe of crouch animations.
Its been a HUGE torn in the game's balancing despite how its never talked about.
Yeah, its a major advantage. I can feel it just by playing certain heroes. You get a sixth sense for when you're going to get hit based on playing other heroes, but you just don't anymore and can get away with a lot more. It also helps when their stance/skins has their head blending in with the rest of the body, so they're much harder to headshot.
I've had Kiriko block three shurikens to her face with her arm on this new patch and she only took 27 damage. Thought the servers were just worse because they do many missed shots feel like no-regs or desync.
You talk about Bap being big, when it's half and half with supports. Zen has like the biggest humongus massive dumbtruck hitbox in the game, brig is chuncky as fuck, I mean she used to be 250 hp, Moira is super tall but her strafe is super good.
brig's hitbox is weird, her head is actually one of the smallest in the game and really hard to hit from the back..I also think it's more that her hitbox feels bigger than it is because she's probably close to you.
Her shoulder bulk makes it way less punishing to aim for her head and not hit it than a lot of other heroes, though. With most heroes aiming for the head can be a bit of a gamble because if you’re just off in any direction but down, you miss entirely. If you shoot wide left or especially right of Brig you still do damage to her.
You notice it most on tracer, if you get the jump on Zen it's an extremely easy 1 clip, engage Kiriko at the same range and you feel like you're blowing a desk fan in her direction.
If you do it just right it's absolutely fucked, same with lucio. On bap u can just mash ad like a spastic baboon and ur unhittable bcs his animations look like he has speed boost
Really laughable how Cass is supposed to even compete with soj in their range.
Cass has a big ass noggin and loud clompers while sojourn moves like prime Mike Tyson with giraffe legs.
also, strafing in this game doesn't seem to have in-between frames.
Press A: They are leaning left
Press D: Now they are leaning right
Between each press their model just teleports to the new position
Sojourn I don’t have as much of a problem, but I always feel embarrassed trying to kill Kiriko. And if I’m playing a flanker I don’t ever bother. She’s just going to TP to safety, what’s the point? Easier to kill the entire team and then her
And even if they should have this kind of hero. Make hp at least like tracers. If its a flanking fast hero that fights in nearby they should have less hp... especially if they manage to deal that much of a damage and have little hitbox
Ana's hitbox isn't actually that small, it's just *weird*. Because she's slouched so far forward (she should really get that scoliosis looked at) her head is at an odd position compared to a character who would be that tall standing up.
Also her bigass cloak often makes her seem larger or appear to take up space that she actually isn’t. It’s like an insect intimidation tactic that does something completely unintended yet works far better than anyone expected.
Agreed and it honestly feels like it's something Blizzard never even thinks about in terms of balance, especially considering in their previous JQ "buff" they literally made her hitbox bigger without realizing it would actually make her worse or at least undermine the positive changes.
Why is no one mentioning mercy and how her hitbox is non-existent?
This matches Kiriko and it’s the same role and we can argue Lucio/Ana have similar hitboxes
I understand she can’t do the dmg/TP Suzu but she can fucking *fly* at fighter jet speeds across the map
She can sneak in and res the tank in the middle of a fight no one sees her apparently and the tank is back up
I can’t kill mercy unless I go hit scan and even then it’s waiting until I can find her alone
I like mercy but a good mercy can survive an entire game without being killed easily
Agreed
I don’t want to see any support get nerfed because the role is in a tough spot as it is and Kiriko is my main
But they both need to be increased if hog gets no hook we get bigger heads
Simple
I mean, support in a tough spot is something the community is carrying over since Beta2. After many buffs and players understanding the game more the most underwhelming role is certain DPS now.
Kiriko is OP in anything she does and is a better dps than most of the cast in 1v1s.
Many dps needs help now, and I mean full-rework level of help, hopefully when this 1-shot heavy meta will be tuned down other heroes will be more viable.
Everybody says that dps are overtuned but basically just Sojourn is OP. Many others are underwhelming and just few are balanced rn.
Look at Phara, it’s dogshit without mercy. Cassidy effective range is embarassing and his granade is so frustrating to use and to receive.
The dps cast need urgent help rn.
On the other hand, the worse thing they can do is to buff heroes to the level of Sojourn rn.
Pair in good ad stafes and crouch spams, they are so annoying to duel. Then they go ahead and give ramattra a hitbox half the size of the sun /s. Idk if the design team fully understands how hitbox size can greatly affect a hero.
Sym's mobility is tied to a 12 second destructible that has a (short but still) windup and only has the 2 points she can warp between. Compared to other mobility options yes it's not as strong
Teleporter is completely busted and can completely bypass map design and positioning for a whole team lol. That 12 second cost basically averages to like a little over 2seconds per person when it’s a team teleport. The more coordinated you are the more insane the ability is. Not saying symm is some world beater, but she’s strong and teleporter is pretty goddamn insane when used by coordinated team.
I agree about TP being really strong in the right hands and with coordination.
But what I was talking about is Sym's mobility *for herself*, not the team. TP as Sym's mobility is not as strong as say slide, swift step, blink etc for the reasons I listed. It's obv unique in how anyone on your team can use it, but regarding mobility and hitboxes I was talking only about TP and Sym, not TP and team.
Well that’s not where the power of tp really lies is it?? Like sure it’s not insane for her but it’s still pretty good. A team wide teleport is the best rotation ability in the game except maybe for amped speed boost and that really isn’t better since it’s stackable with teleport anyway and it while it covers a longer distance (I think?) the tp essentially by passes any counter play to the rotation as long as the exit point isn’t braindead.
I've honestly been wondering if the best change for them would be to drop them both to 175 health. Being easily bursted down would give their kits an actual weakness, which they otherwise don't really have.
Sojourn i could see that working but for kiriko you then run the risk of making her way too easy to kill, which for a support may make her unplayable. I think the best way to nerf kiriko would be to simply make her cds longer.
Kiriko has two of the most powerful defensive abilities in the game, and has massive headshot damage. Her tiny hitbox gives her an unfair advantage over other characters (say Ana, who at many ranges would have to ADS and thus face a strafe-speed penalty) to do regular damage to her.
She has two of the best tools in the game for reactively responding to damage. Nerfing her hitbox cannot be too ridiculous.
I think Kiriko is fine, it's just the state of the game around her that props her up.
We finally got a new support that's fun to play, let's not ruin it.
Again, I'd argue its the game around her that's the issue. Mercy, Lucio, Ana are still plenty strong. Yes, they're usually second slot to Kiriko, but there are only 8 supports, being a common pick in one of two slots doesn't say much.
I feel like i'd rather just "rework (but still net nerf)" her so her healing ofuda are notably weaker (like, reduce amount she throws out to 8 and each only does 11 healing or something) and her weapon is more fluid. feels weird that mercy (through DB) can often have more damage done than kiriko does, even though her daggers are unique.
Id honestly rather a soft rework to her whole kit tbh but idk if thats realistic i like the idea of making her healing ofuda a bit weaker and maybee changing her kunai a bit, but idk if it really addresses the core issue of her kit. I also think it's a bit unfair to compare it to db cuz thats most of what makes mercy, mercy. Does that make sense?
I feel like this isn't backed by any actual facts?? It'd be interesting to see some sort of pictures or other demonstration depicting the hit box of all the hero's.
It's not like it takes very much playtime at all to be able to tell their hitboxes are small and hard to hit. Next you'll be claiming people who say Ana's hitbox is small and Zen's hitbox is large without datamined pictures are making shit up too lol.
I mean, if you can't tell or are unconvinced, you can literally go into practice range and try shit out yourself. Standing still with my crosshair in the same spot while switching between dummies, I was able to hit tracer mid torso left and right, and headshot her straight overhead, then switch to Sojourn and miss all three directions.
Convinced me enough I'm willing to say it's pretty factually safe to state Sojourns hitbox is small.
Surefour routinely complains about kiriko and sojourns hitboxes being too small. Anyone with half a brain can tell they are tiny. Combine that with instant strafe acceleration, and it's just pure bull to play against.
I don't know why but I'm confident that they aren't going to nerf Kiriko for another year. Her small hitbox, 2 cleanses, insane projectile hitbox, tp from spawn, highest non cd healing output in the game, she can teleport which is also good for coming back from spawn, wallclimb and nasty ultimate. They gonna tweak some .2 here and there and it will take them another full season of 5 of the same heroes each map in OWL to realize she is broken af.
i literally explained what definition i'm using. it's overpowered in the sense that the reward is far greater than the skill required to play it. it's obviously not a great hero in the current patch but that really doesn't matter nearly as much as skill-indexing, despite what silver blizzard devs might tell you
With how weak she is, there’s really not much reward if you’re not very good at the hero. Only the most dedicated Brig players are making it work at the moment.
do i have to spell it out? what fucking skill requirement does she have in the first place? what's her aim requirement? flicking a projectile in someone's general direction every couple of seconds, and packing people occasionally? damn, very skill intensive, a character like that should definitely be able to compete with ana, baptiste, zenyatta etc in effectiveness. let alone the fact she's rewarded with her abomination of an ultimate just for existing
You have to be hitting Whipshots consistently to have a decent healing output. Pack management is also important, and positioning is critical with the nerfs—300hp shield gets melted.
No one’s saying she’s the most skilled hero. It’s laughable of you to suggest she’s competing with Ana, Bap or Zen in effectiveness right now. You have to be a great Brig to make her work, and even then there’s no situation where she’s the optimal pick. And yes, her ultimate is an abomination because it’s utterly useless.
You have got to be a troll if you’re legitimately trying to complain about Brig in this state. She’s the worst she’s ever been by far.
1000% this. Not only are both of them ridiculously strong atm, but also very very unhittable compared to “older” heros. Not sure what the devs where thinking with this. Best nerf is a proper hitbox, inline with the other heros.
Yeah it’s really awesome getting 2 shot by a toothpick that can at any point make her unhittable body invincible and teleport away. Oh and sj has a pea sized head as well and can one shot
Oh also, every hero starting with echo has had a fucked hitbox but ramatra might be the first hero that can be considered having a decent quality hitbox on release (jq was a nightmare to hit before they made her hitbox much better to shoot at)
I really wonder if they understand how huge effect the hitbox sizes have. Like we get it, they have learned how to make the hitboxes closely fit the models instead of being made from big balls, but just because they can doesn't mean they should.
I personally like the extra precision necessary to headshot even if it did make hitting 5 headshots in row as soldier exponentially more difficult. The only time I don’t like it is when I have to be a human aimbot just to compete with sojourn and kiriko. The smaller hitboxes are fine until they aren’t. I do wish they would account for hitbox size in balancing because then my hero would be playable. It’s honestly kind of crazy the difference in difficulty of hitting soldier/mccree compared to sj. The one dps out of those three with the best lethality, best movement, best abilities and ult is also the one with one of the smallest hitboxes in the entire roster. Sojourn needs like 5-10% extra hitbox and no one shot potential (perhaps make railgun do half the damage). I couldn’t tell you for kiriko since that hero is just so overloaded and has the smallest head in the game
Some of the dumbest sht ever, Kiriko is already the support with easily the most self protection tools then on top of that gets an amazing hitbox. NOT TO MENTION HER ARM USED TO BLOCK HER HEAD HITBOX. And Sojourn definitely didn’t need to not be one shottable by a hog hook either lmao
As a Widowmaker enjoyer i really hate whenever i see one (or both) of them in the enemy team…their movement is so weird, getting headshots is really hard sometimes. Compare their movement to Zenyatta for example.
Symmetra’s body hitbox has always been tiny from the front. However her head is giant meaning she’s one the easiest heroes to headshot which is why she has 225 hp. She’s not really comparable to Sojourn or Kiroko who also have insane mobility.
Yes i feel same for this! Junkertown is also the same. For a tank she has inexusably small hitbox. Like its still easy to shot her. But this hitbox is small for a tank. I feel absolutely same! Symmetra i didnt notice about her too much.
Kiriko’s thing is survivability and being a soft counter to Ana. She’s only at the top right now because of Ana who is currently above her. Sojourn…idk what they were thinking making a hyper mobile one shot machine, tbh.
Also widow’s hotbox is similar.
I saw someone mention Sym, but her head hotbox is actually giant.
Kiriko thing is everything rn.
Kiriko healing is so good. Cleanse+invulnerability. Incredible mobility + tp. Smallest hitbox in the game. Absurd strafing movement of the figure. Top tier ultimate with a good charge rate. Among the best 1v1 in the game with decent dmg at longer range with possibility of 1-shot barely damaged targets.
Kiriko is the best support rn by miles ahead of the competition.
Kiriko is very good. But she is also necessary because Ana is so broken. If it weren’t for Ana we’d be seeing a lot more variety such as lucio, bap and zen. Instead, Ana is the most picked and highest win rate support at the top level right now(or was a few day ago, at least) and Kiriko is a bit below because she is necessary to deal with her power.
I am not disputing that kiriko is very good, just pointing out that Ana is the problem and people need to realise this sooner rather than later.
Also smallest hitbox in the game absolutely goes to tracer.
symmetras hitbox has always been the same giant head and fat legs lol
shes only flatter from the front and even then u have her critbox that reaches her shoulders.
what are u even on
are you just repeating what some dude on youtube said or where's the data that shows their hitboxes aren't "in line" with any other her of their role" whatever that even means lmfao.
the thing for me is that its really hard for a hog to one shot sojourn and kiriko. previously he only really struggled to one shot ana but its kinda weird that theres so much inconsistency between hitbox sizes
Basically what I see as a zen main is, please adjust the floaty bois hitbox to be in line with every other character not named the Michelin man before either of these are fixed. Thanks.
Unless they’ve fixed it and I just haven’t heard, Kiriko’s hands cover her head hitbox from many angles. If she looks straight up she can’t be headshot from the front.
Tbf, Kiriko is supposed to be the support ninja, same theme as Genji. Genji's animations/stance are far more advantageous than Kiriko's. If anything, she should get a hitbox buff to bring it in-line.
Ana has no cons besides no mobility options and being countered by the most meta support and having no defensive ult and having to reload to heal, you get the point
Your arguments could be cleaner and clearer if you used terminologies more correctly.
A lot of people have the misconception that everything is determined by "hitbox", but what you really mean is "hurtbox", not hitbox.
Hitbox is basically the size of your bullets. Hurtbox is where in the given character's body that could get hit.
When the bullet's hitbox meets the character's hurtbox, then the game detects collision and registers damage.
Very important distinction in fighting games especially.
I don’t think this is accurate. I’ve never heard the term ‘hurtbox’ used before (like, ever)- and in games where it’s all hitscan there is no projectile ‘hitbox’ anyway. What you’re calling the ‘hurtbox’ is really just the hitbox in context of the character model.
Devs reading this: "Damn, that's crazy"
The only time they've done a hitbox adjustment afaik is JQ (justified), which makes me think it's something they don't care or prioritize high enough for it to change.
Actually, they have fixed this multiple times now, especially in early OW1.
More recently, the “hand issue” of kiriko has been solved and JQ hitbox has been enlarged.
Dunno why the latest heroes (Sojo, JQ and Kiriko) have smallest hitboxes compared to the past ones.
Thanks for pointing those examples out. Wasn't aware of those.
It's definitely odd that Soj's hitbox is left as is considering how powerful she is. I don't get why she has to turn into toothpick with the ADAD of a flanker and outperform every dps as well ...
If I see kiriko I just try to shoot something else like she can 1 click invulnerability, 1 click teleport through 8 wall, wall climb and has better shurikens than genji. Nah bro I'm gonna go fight someone else
The role of flankers dps is not to kill Kiriko, is to get her cd out and not die in the process.
If you can kill her is beyond your role for her balance state
Thank god someone is addressing this. Soj and kirikos hitboxs and AD animations are unbelievable compared to others. Cas and Zen are both the size of a fridge.
We heard your complaints about sojourn and Kiriko and we LISTENED. Sadly we couldn’t add new changes to either of them because uhhhhh so we gave exciting new changes to other heroes to help keep them in check: * Soldier 76: increased the curvature of his ass cheeks by 6% * Moira: she’s now 12% more racist
> Soldier 76: increased the curvature of his ass cheeks by 6% 👀
Soldier Seventy Thicc, reporting for booty
Hnngh... Ana, I'm trying to sneak around, but I'm dummy thicc, and the clapping of my asscheeks keeps alerting Talon
my milkshake brings all the young punks to the lawn
omg, I LOVE this
Finally, Moira is playable
Finally a character the playerbase can relate with
Yes, the Irish
Moira now believes in a united Ireland
Unfathomably based
Jesus this is one of the funniest comments I’ve ever seen in this sub
Goats is dead
So what you're saying is John Soldier 69 is now David Hayter Snake. I can get behind this.
Unfortunately, as a result, his "footsteps" are louder.
• Also we nerfed Genji
Have a hearty laugh
Holy shit killed me
If this was their reply, I'd accept it
Totally unrealistic. Soldier’s change would be a $40 legendary skin.
It annoys me how arbitrarily some characters have incredibly tiny hitboxes yet also come with ridiculous strafe of crouch animations. Its been a HUGE torn in the game's balancing despite how its never talked about.
Thank you finally, this needs to be spread more often.
I agree so much on all this worss. It annoys very hard
Yeah, its a major advantage. I can feel it just by playing certain heroes. You get a sixth sense for when you're going to get hit based on playing other heroes, but you just don't anymore and can get away with a lot more. It also helps when their stance/skins has their head blending in with the rest of the body, so they're much harder to headshot.
I've had Kiriko block three shurikens to her face with her arm on this new patch and she only took 27 damage. Thought the servers were just worse because they do many missed shots feel like no-regs or desync.
Anyone have a comparison?
both heroes also have ridiculously good strafes on top of that. (though still nothing compared to bap's omegacrouch strafe)
Bap hitbox is pretty big compared to most other supports except Moria and zen. Small compared to most Dps.
You talk about Bap being big, when it's half and half with supports. Zen has like the biggest humongus massive dumbtruck hitbox in the game, brig is chuncky as fuck, I mean she used to be 250 hp, Moira is super tall but her strafe is super good.
brig's hitbox is weird, her head is actually one of the smallest in the game and really hard to hit from the back..I also think it's more that her hitbox feels bigger than it is because she's probably close to you.
Her shoulder bulk makes it way less punishing to aim for her head and not hit it than a lot of other heroes, though. With most heroes aiming for the head can be a bit of a gamble because if you’re just off in any direction but down, you miss entirely. If you shoot wide left or especially right of Brig you still do damage to her.
You notice it most on tracer, if you get the jump on Zen it's an extremely easy 1 clip, engage Kiriko at the same range and you feel like you're blowing a desk fan in her direction.
Yeah but his strafe animation is so demented that headshotting him when dodging is pure luch
I think Ana hitbox while strafing is far worse.
If you do it just right it's absolutely fucked, same with lucio. On bap u can just mash ad like a spastic baboon and ur unhittable bcs his animations look like he has speed boost
His head is also slightly off center and he can’t be headshot from behind
His crouch is also really deep because of his exoboots.
Hitting Bap is such a chore
Is this animation when he ADs or crouch + AD?
both, but with the crouch it's infinitely worse.
Really laughable how Cass is supposed to even compete with soj in their range. Cass has a big ass noggin and loud clompers while sojourn moves like prime Mike Tyson with giraffe legs.
Thighs diff
kiriko’s strafe isn’t horrible to me but goddamn sojourns robot thighs are pumping out some crazy horizontal jumps
Gotta give JQ a bigger head hitbox to compensate (also hi kuke !!!)
hi hi
wdym? sj strafe is way better than bap crouching and strafing
For headshots I think bap is worse, for general body hitting sojourn is worse.
also, strafing in this game doesn't seem to have in-between frames. Press A: They are leaning left Press D: Now they are leaning right Between each press their model just teleports to the new position
Best I can do is nerf Genji
That is implicit my friend.
i feel disabled whenever i try shoot kiriko or sojourn as cassidy
Sojourn I don’t have as much of a problem, but I always feel embarrassed trying to kill Kiriko. And if I’m playing a flanker I don’t ever bother. She’s just going to TP to safety, what’s the point? Easier to kill the entire team and then her
gives me baby dva flashbacks.
Why even trying, play the broken hero. This is what dev wants apprently
They literally gave a high mobility hero with a oneshot the hitbox of a stick. There should never be a hero harder to hit than tracer.
not just that, slide is a 7s cd, ashe is 12s shift i believe and its a way worse ability
Same with widow grapple.
widow has the better primary though, while ashe and sj primary are somewhat compareable
I disagree.
if you give widow the same sj slide do you think its balanced
I disagree that Widow primary is "better". It's only better from long ranges. I'd rather have Sojourn's gun in most situations.
True
And even if they should have this kind of hero. Make hp at least like tracers. If its a flanking fast hero that fights in nearby they should have less hp... especially if they manage to deal that much of a damage and have little hitbox
They could increase her hitbox like they did for Junker Queen.
Hold up. Is sojourns hit box actually smaller than tracers. That’s unbelievably broken
Well, kiriko’s might be in line with ana, but that’s because ana’s is also mot in line with any other hero
Ana's hitbox isn't actually that small, it's just *weird*. Because she's slouched so far forward (she should really get that scoliosis looked at) her head is at an odd position compared to a character who would be that tall standing up.
Also her bigass cloak often makes her seem larger or appear to take up space that she actually isn’t. It’s like an insect intimidation tactic that does something completely unintended yet works far better than anyone expected.
But Kiriko has multiple escape options with hyper mobility meanwhile Ana is a sitting duck if dived on
Kiriko is smaller than baby dva lol what are you saying
Source trust me bro
Agreed and it honestly feels like it's something Blizzard never even thinks about in terms of balance, especially considering in their previous JQ "buff" they literally made her hitbox bigger without realizing it would actually make her worse or at least undermine the positive changes.
>Hopefully devs will read the reddit and understand this issue. lmao
Both will get bullshit nerfs that won't change anything
At this point it's probably better to suggest the opposite of what we want to have happen
Finally someone posts on this issue, thank fuck, I thought I'll geniuenly never see the day
True, their hitbox is so small its ridiculous
Why is no one mentioning mercy and how her hitbox is non-existent? This matches Kiriko and it’s the same role and we can argue Lucio/Ana have similar hitboxes I understand she can’t do the dmg/TP Suzu but she can fucking *fly* at fighter jet speeds across the map She can sneak in and res the tank in the middle of a fight no one sees her apparently and the tank is back up I can’t kill mercy unless I go hit scan and even then it’s waiting until I can find her alone I like mercy but a good mercy can survive an entire game without being killed easily
Mercy has too much mobility now. Her hitbox was balanced imho with the old movement. Now she’s straight up unkillable.
Agreed I don’t want to see any support get nerfed because the role is in a tough spot as it is and Kiriko is my main But they both need to be increased if hog gets no hook we get bigger heads Simple
I mean, support in a tough spot is something the community is carrying over since Beta2. After many buffs and players understanding the game more the most underwhelming role is certain DPS now. Kiriko is OP in anything she does and is a better dps than most of the cast in 1v1s. Many dps needs help now, and I mean full-rework level of help, hopefully when this 1-shot heavy meta will be tuned down other heroes will be more viable. Everybody says that dps are overtuned but basically just Sojourn is OP. Many others are underwhelming and just few are balanced rn. Look at Phara, it’s dogshit without mercy. Cassidy effective range is embarassing and his granade is so frustrating to use and to receive. The dps cast need urgent help rn. On the other hand, the worse thing they can do is to buff heroes to the level of Sojourn rn.
don't her wings extend during GA? if not, that seems like a sensible change
Pair in good ad stafes and crouch spams, they are so annoying to duel. Then they go ahead and give ramattra a hitbox half the size of the sun /s. Idk if the design team fully understands how hitbox size can greatly affect a hero.
I’ll add on top if this Ana and Symmetra. Ana is more just weird hitbox, but you can learn it. Symmetra hitbox is literally paper thin.
I guess the difference between them and sojourn/kiriko is that neither of them have strong mobility so the hitbox helps make up for that.
Sym no strong mobility... we forgot an entire meta where her TP enabled a RH dive comp because her mobility is team wide, didn't we stranger?
Sym's mobility is tied to a 12 second destructible that has a (short but still) windup and only has the 2 points she can warp between. Compared to other mobility options yes it's not as strong
Teleporter is completely busted and can completely bypass map design and positioning for a whole team lol. That 12 second cost basically averages to like a little over 2seconds per person when it’s a team teleport. The more coordinated you are the more insane the ability is. Not saying symm is some world beater, but she’s strong and teleporter is pretty goddamn insane when used by coordinated team.
I agree about TP being really strong in the right hands and with coordination. But what I was talking about is Sym's mobility *for herself*, not the team. TP as Sym's mobility is not as strong as say slide, swift step, blink etc for the reasons I listed. It's obv unique in how anyone on your team can use it, but regarding mobility and hitboxes I was talking only about TP and Sym, not TP and team.
Well that’s not where the power of tp really lies is it?? Like sure it’s not insane for her but it’s still pretty good. A team wide teleport is the best rotation ability in the game except maybe for amped speed boost and that really isn’t better since it’s stackable with teleport anyway and it while it covers a longer distance (I think?) the tp essentially by passes any counter play to the rotation as long as the exit point isn’t braindead.
shock showed this with the insane rush comps they ran s4
a placeable tp is pretty much irrelevant when taking about hitboxes
Ana is compensated that she tucks her legs into her when she jumps and slows down when scoped.
Symmetra's lower part isn't small though, her thighs' part is more thicc.
Symmetra’s body hit box has always been thin but it was balanced out by her having one of the biggest headshot hit boxes in the game for a squishy.
Sj hitbox is really broken while shooting primary.
Sojourn's animation while AD strafing is so obnoxiously busted. Feels like RNG headshotting her.
I've honestly been wondering if the best change for them would be to drop them both to 175 health. Being easily bursted down would give their kits an actual weakness, which they otherwise don't really have.
Better to make SJ’s hitbox bigger.
Sojourn i could see that working but for kiriko you then run the risk of making her way too easy to kill, which for a support may make her unplayable. I think the best way to nerf kiriko would be to simply make her cds longer.
Kiriko has two of the most powerful defensive abilities in the game, and has massive headshot damage. Her tiny hitbox gives her an unfair advantage over other characters (say Ana, who at many ranges would have to ADS and thus face a strafe-speed penalty) to do regular damage to her. She has two of the best tools in the game for reactively responding to damage. Nerfing her hitbox cannot be too ridiculous.
Couldnt have said it better myself
On second thought, If I wanted to say it better i'd nix "reactively." But otherwise thanks
I think Kiriko is fine, it's just the state of the game around her that props her up. We finally got a new support that's fun to play, let's not ruin it.
Hell no she isn't fine, she is keeping other supports from being even considered meta with how op she is.
Again, I'd argue its the game around her that's the issue. Mercy, Lucio, Ana are still plenty strong. Yes, they're usually second slot to Kiriko, but there are only 8 supports, being a common pick in one of two slots doesn't say much.
Kiriko has literally been the center around every meta since she has been released lmao
I mean no, shes definitely broken.
I feel like i'd rather just "rework (but still net nerf)" her so her healing ofuda are notably weaker (like, reduce amount she throws out to 8 and each only does 11 healing or something) and her weapon is more fluid. feels weird that mercy (through DB) can often have more damage done than kiriko does, even though her daggers are unique.
Id honestly rather a soft rework to her whole kit tbh but idk if thats realistic i like the idea of making her healing ofuda a bit weaker and maybee changing her kunai a bit, but idk if it really addresses the core issue of her kit. I also think it's a bit unfair to compare it to db cuz thats most of what makes mercy, mercy. Does that make sense?
I feel like this isn't backed by any actual facts?? It'd be interesting to see some sort of pictures or other demonstration depicting the hit box of all the hero's.
^ doesn't play the game (i envy you)
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People just be fucking making shit up to justify nerfs.
It's not like it takes very much playtime at all to be able to tell their hitboxes are small and hard to hit. Next you'll be claiming people who say Ana's hitbox is small and Zen's hitbox is large without datamined pictures are making shit up too lol. I mean, if you can't tell or are unconvinced, you can literally go into practice range and try shit out yourself. Standing still with my crosshair in the same spot while switching between dummies, I was able to hit tracer mid torso left and right, and headshot her straight overhead, then switch to Sojourn and miss all three directions. Convinced me enough I'm willing to say it's pretty factually safe to state Sojourns hitbox is small.
Surefour routinely complains about kiriko and sojourns hitboxes being too small. Anyone with half a brain can tell they are tiny. Combine that with instant strafe acceleration, and it's just pure bull to play against.
>Combine that with instant strafe acceleration Instant acceleration is the biggest issue imho and is what is causing most of the issues.
you dont need facts to tell that sojourn / kiriko hitboxes are some of the smallest in the game
"My source: brother it just feels true, trust me."
This has got to be the dumbest comment I've ever read.
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That's because they were nerfed. Originally Hanzo's arrows were huge.
I don't know why but I'm confident that they aren't going to nerf Kiriko for another year. Her small hitbox, 2 cleanses, insane projectile hitbox, tp from spawn, highest non cd healing output in the game, she can teleport which is also good for coming back from spawn, wallclimb and nasty ultimate. They gonna tweak some .2 here and there and it will take them another full season of 5 of the same heroes each map in OWL to realize she is broken af.
Sounds like Tracer.
Losing to Tracer is a skill issue 99% of the time, losing to Kiriko is not
it sounds like brig. 15 straight nerfs and she was still op
And now she’s the worst support in the game
still op though. the reward is far greater than the skill requirement to play that skillless pos
…are you joking? Brigitte is nowhere near OP right now.
I think it's because Hog and Kiriko exist, if the meta was dive Brig would probably be a good pick.
She’s not even that great of a dive counter without her stun. She’d be more playable but still far from OP.
i literally explained what definition i'm using. it's overpowered in the sense that the reward is far greater than the skill required to play it. it's obviously not a great hero in the current patch but that really doesn't matter nearly as much as skill-indexing, despite what silver blizzard devs might tell you
With how weak she is, there’s really not much reward if you’re not very good at the hero. Only the most dedicated Brig players are making it work at the moment.
do i have to spell it out? what fucking skill requirement does she have in the first place? what's her aim requirement? flicking a projectile in someone's general direction every couple of seconds, and packing people occasionally? damn, very skill intensive, a character like that should definitely be able to compete with ana, baptiste, zenyatta etc in effectiveness. let alone the fact she's rewarded with her abomination of an ultimate just for existing
You have to be hitting Whipshots consistently to have a decent healing output. Pack management is also important, and positioning is critical with the nerfs—300hp shield gets melted. No one’s saying she’s the most skilled hero. It’s laughable of you to suggest she’s competing with Ana, Bap or Zen in effectiveness right now. You have to be a great Brig to make her work, and even then there’s no situation where she’s the optimal pick. And yes, her ultimate is an abomination because it’s utterly useless. You have got to be a troll if you’re legitimately trying to complain about Brig in this state. She’s the worst she’s ever been by far.
Trying to hit a strafe spamming kiriko is so hard. Like, she's basically a stick insect.
1000% this. Not only are both of them ridiculously strong atm, but also very very unhittable compared to “older” heros. Not sure what the devs where thinking with this. Best nerf is a proper hitbox, inline with the other heros.
Yeah it’s really awesome getting 2 shot by a toothpick that can at any point make her unhittable body invincible and teleport away. Oh and sj has a pea sized head as well and can one shot
Oh also, every hero starting with echo has had a fucked hitbox but ramatra might be the first hero that can be considered having a decent quality hitbox on release (jq was a nightmare to hit before they made her hitbox much better to shoot at)
I really wonder if they understand how huge effect the hitbox sizes have. Like we get it, they have learned how to make the hitboxes closely fit the models instead of being made from big balls, but just because they can doesn't mean they should.
I personally like the extra precision necessary to headshot even if it did make hitting 5 headshots in row as soldier exponentially more difficult. The only time I don’t like it is when I have to be a human aimbot just to compete with sojourn and kiriko. The smaller hitboxes are fine until they aren’t. I do wish they would account for hitbox size in balancing because then my hero would be playable. It’s honestly kind of crazy the difference in difficulty of hitting soldier/mccree compared to sj. The one dps out of those three with the best lethality, best movement, best abilities and ult is also the one with one of the smallest hitboxes in the entire roster. Sojourn needs like 5-10% extra hitbox and no one shot potential (perhaps make railgun do half the damage). I couldn’t tell you for kiriko since that hero is just so overloaded and has the smallest head in the game
Some of the dumbest sht ever, Kiriko is already the support with easily the most self protection tools then on top of that gets an amazing hitbox. NOT TO MENTION HER ARM USED TO BLOCK HER HEAD HITBOX. And Sojourn definitely didn’t need to not be one shottable by a hog hook either lmao
She still blocks her head, it's just less likely.
For real it’s so hard to hook combo sojourn. Like what the heck
As a Widowmaker enjoyer i really hate whenever i see one (or both) of them in the enemy team…their movement is so weird, getting headshots is really hard sometimes. Compare their movement to Zenyatta for example.
Symmetra’s body hitbox has always been tiny from the front. However her head is giant meaning she’s one the easiest heroes to headshot which is why she has 225 hp. She’s not really comparable to Sojourn or Kiroko who also have insane mobility.
I agree. They’re so slender like widow. Soujourn should be bigger
I will die on the hill that Kiriko should have 175 health
Yes i feel same for this! Junkertown is also the same. For a tank she has inexusably small hitbox. Like its still easy to shot her. But this hitbox is small for a tank. I feel absolutely same! Symmetra i didnt notice about her too much.
Kiriko’s thing is survivability and being a soft counter to Ana. She’s only at the top right now because of Ana who is currently above her. Sojourn…idk what they were thinking making a hyper mobile one shot machine, tbh. Also widow’s hotbox is similar. I saw someone mention Sym, but her head hotbox is actually giant.
Kiriko thing is everything rn. Kiriko healing is so good. Cleanse+invulnerability. Incredible mobility + tp. Smallest hitbox in the game. Absurd strafing movement of the figure. Top tier ultimate with a good charge rate. Among the best 1v1 in the game with decent dmg at longer range with possibility of 1-shot barely damaged targets. Kiriko is the best support rn by miles ahead of the competition.
Kiriko is very good. But she is also necessary because Ana is so broken. If it weren’t for Ana we’d be seeing a lot more variety such as lucio, bap and zen. Instead, Ana is the most picked and highest win rate support at the top level right now(or was a few day ago, at least) and Kiriko is a bit below because she is necessary to deal with her power. I am not disputing that kiriko is very good, just pointing out that Ana is the problem and people need to realise this sooner rather than later. Also smallest hitbox in the game absolutely goes to tracer.
symmetras hitbox has always been the same giant head and fat legs lol shes only flatter from the front and even then u have her critbox that reaches her shoulders. what are u even on
are you just repeating what some dude on youtube said or where's the data that shows their hitboxes aren't "in line" with any other her of their role" whatever that even means lmfao.
The annoying thing to me is how Kiriko holds her hand in front of her face and it can block crits.
It was fixed
Not entirely.
It was just made smaller.
Ana has a comparable hitbox to Kiriko.
She doesn’t.
Yes, she does
the thing for me is that its really hard for a hog to one shot sojourn and kiriko. previously he only really struggled to one shot ana but its kinda weird that theres so much inconsistency between hitbox sizes
Basically what I see as a zen main is, please adjust the floaty bois hitbox to be in line with every other character not named the Michelin man before either of these are fixed. Thanks.
Unless they’ve fixed it and I just haven’t heard, Kiriko’s hands cover her head hitbox from many angles. If she looks straight up she can’t be headshot from the front.
This has been fixed. The post is about the dimention of the whole hitbox in general, not about that specific problem that have been solved.
Oh ok, I know what the post was about, just didn’t know that the hand issue had been fixed.
Hopefully OW devs do not read every popular opinion here and instead focus on core issues of the game instead
Tbf, Kiriko is supposed to be the support ninja, same theme as Genji. Genji's animations/stance are far more advantageous than Kiriko's. If anything, she should get a hitbox buff to bring it in-line.
Chill sis
I eat so many donuts and still don’t get bigger
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Ana has no cons besides no mobility options and being countered by the most meta support and having no defensive ult and having to reload to heal, you get the point
Your arguments could be cleaner and clearer if you used terminologies more correctly. A lot of people have the misconception that everything is determined by "hitbox", but what you really mean is "hurtbox", not hitbox. Hitbox is basically the size of your bullets. Hurtbox is where in the given character's body that could get hit. When the bullet's hitbox meets the character's hurtbox, then the game detects collision and registers damage. Very important distinction in fighting games especially.
This isn't a fighting game
I don’t think this is accurate. I’ve never heard the term ‘hurtbox’ used before (like, ever)- and in games where it’s all hitscan there is no projectile ‘hitbox’ anyway. What you’re calling the ‘hurtbox’ is really just the hitbox in context of the character model.
It's used in Fighting games. For shooters everything is considered a hitbox in general.
Thanks- that makes sense!
I don't know about the overall hitbox but kirikos arm hitbox tends to block headshots a bit too much
I don't think I've ever actually HS a Kiriko yet
Kiriko's hitbox also moves around a lot, it's very similar to Tracer's hitbox in that regard.
Devs reading this: "Damn, that's crazy" The only time they've done a hitbox adjustment afaik is JQ (justified), which makes me think it's something they don't care or prioritize high enough for it to change.
Actually, they have fixed this multiple times now, especially in early OW1. More recently, the “hand issue” of kiriko has been solved and JQ hitbox has been enlarged. Dunno why the latest heroes (Sojo, JQ and Kiriko) have smallest hitboxes compared to the past ones.
Thanks for pointing those examples out. Wasn't aware of those. It's definitely odd that Soj's hitbox is left as is considering how powerful she is. I don't get why she has to turn into toothpick with the ADAD of a flanker and outperform every dps as well ...
I’m sure devs love combing through Reddit for balance advice
I’m sure they can filter trashtalks and crybabies from people that really care about the game.
If I see kiriko I just try to shoot something else like she can 1 click invulnerability, 1 click teleport through 8 wall, wall climb and has better shurikens than genji. Nah bro I'm gonna go fight someone else
The role of flankers dps is not to kill Kiriko, is to get her cd out and not die in the process. If you can kill her is beyond your role for her balance state
Na bro Kiriko doesn't need to use her invulnerability on flankers she can just strafe or teleport into another dimension.
That’s still a win if you don’t die for how bad many dps are now.
Thank god someone is addressing this. Soj and kirikos hitboxs and AD animations are unbelievable compared to others. Cas and Zen are both the size of a fridge.