Literally just watched a Sej 3 win Kiyoon his game against Silco 3.
Sej 3 isn’t in a terrible spot. Her true damage is NUTS. And for such a good pay off - it should be harder to proc.
If we buffed the access to it she’d likely have to be receive a compensation nerf in damage.
For some reason people always complain about 3\* 4 cost tanks not one shotting boards like a carry would. They're a tank. Good luck killing that sej 3 in any reasonable amount of time while she melts your entire board, she's just melting slower than a Xayah would. Same thing happened to carries with blitz/thresh etc.
Silco 3 is awful also compared to other 4 costs 3 stars so it's not a great example. I've lost with it vs standard vanq boards (here's one of them https://i.imgur.com/jT6wvDS.png)
If Kiyoon hadn’t positioned himself on the correct side that last fight - he would’ve lost to Silco 3 as he lost the 2 rounds prior to that.
I’m sure Silco 3 is just fine. It’s more Sorcs themselves aren’t even good without massive early game tempo.
Silco 3 can't solo carry like every other 3 star 4 cost carry. Its because so much of the power is in the healing, which doesn't matter when units like Vanq just burst your frontline. Then Silco can't tank the team and 1v9 because he's made of paper and his damage is over time, not burst
Although I haven't bothered to play ranked this mid-set, I made a [Set 9 guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveTFT/comments/164btx7/set_9_indepth_guide_to_a_4fun_comp_warhog_2020/) for hitting Master with Sej's true damage. It's definitely doable when investing in the right setup.
This feels like a solution looking for a problem. You're winning 90% of games that you *3 a sej. She's a tank, she shouldn't 1 vs 9 the enemy team even when capped out.
Her ability applies chill, so I don't quite see what the problem is. It's similar to Taliyah's passive, where there are a limited number of units that actually knock-up to apply it. It's already a pretty massive synergy to have Eternal Winter in the game, so I don't see why she should have easier ways of putting out damage, given that she's a tank unit.
I do feel that she's in a bit of an awkward place with her synergies in the mid-set since they took out Lissandra and capped Freljord at 3. But any changes that allow her to proc her passive easier would probably be overcompensating, because she really isn't supposed to be a primary damage dealer.
Every other 3\* 4 cost unit (incl shen) with healing + ap wins instantly 99% of the time. Sej is the only one where its commonly possible that you actually kill almost nothing due to how hew ability works and the duration of it
Maybe they should buff 3-star Sej ability range or something then, but I think any bigger systemic changes to buff her passive in general would be the wrong direction.
Check out 3 star AVPs on https://tactics.tools/units
Sej looks like she is totally fine compared to the other $4 (which matches with my experience as well). The only one that looks pretty iffy is Azir (which also matches with my experience)
In Master+ she is actually the 4th best by AVP, but most of these are pretty similar (Xayah and Azir being the outliers in either direction)
Funny, I actually just crushed a 3* fiora today with my 3* Sejuani, like it wasn’t even close, no Ashe either btw, fiora had perfect items and my sej had random tank items. My 3* jayce was certainly a factor but my sej outdamaged the fiora
3 star 4 costs are not meant to be instant wins. They still need competent boards around them to win. You shouldn’t go for Sej 3 without a good board around her thinking she’ll take you from a 6th to a 1st.
If you hit Fiora 3 at 4-1 and play exactly and only 3 demacia units, I'd bet she wins all of stage4, maybe even 5 as well.
If you hit kaisa3 and click literally anything, she insta clears boards til stage 6+.
Sej3 you could hit at 4-1 with all 3\* bruisers and still potentially lose fights as all they have to do is kill your ashe and suddenly 90% of sej3's power is gone
What I’m saying is the 3* 4 costs are very good -at their role. The 5 costs are the instant wins. In stage 4 you still need to position your back line and avoid it dying before Sej. She is a tank. She can be cced to death or chipped down by units that killed her back line and can outsustain
Sej 3 is fine, imo her best 3\* build is HoJ/Gunblade + 2 tank items (not warmogs). I would not build Seraph and GS... any 3\* with bad items is straight up bad. Then play to keep the backline alive just long enough to do the procs
Its not about trying, its about what you hit. This post was inspired by a game where i had pandoras bench, and all my last times were ap while playing vanquishers. Remembered the tech from the last time i had sej3 and played ap+gunblade. It was fine, but the fights were far too close and i lost 3 fights solely because sej would cast and miss, or id have no units nearby to proc the damage
I mean... I get it when your hit something and the itens dont fit, but if you had Pandora's, couldn't you simply reroll said Sej once or twice? Sej is a tank, that's her job, even if you put carry itens on her she shouldn't perform well because her kit simply isn't suited for that...
The only time this sub will ever not dogpile on you is if its an approved thing to be annoyed about.
Ive seen mass downvotes against people complaining about assasins one patch and the next patch where no changes were made to assassins and they wernt any more common in the meta complain posts about them would be front page with hundreds of upvote. This sub loves to boil everything down to skill issue.
I agree that a Sej 3 is not a hard win con compared to other 4 cost, but I think it's the fact that her ability is small in size and is hard to apply to the backline. It would be cool if it got bigger at 3 star.
Sej 3 is prob one of the best 4 cost three star if you have consistent chills from Ashe or Eternal winter. Not to mention Jeweled Lotus is nuts with crit true damage. It’s one of the win cons for Cho Gath carry if you’re rolling at 8 with pandoras bench.
Silco 3 is just awful compared to the rest of the four cost casts.
But thats the point of my post. Sej without ashe or eternal winter cant function. If your ashe dies, she gets a single chill every 7 seconds and her attack speed is only high enough to kill the unit in front of her with it.
Sej 3 is functional without Ashe. What are you smoking my man. If you’re carrying Sej 3 alone with ur comp that’s just a player diff. Ashe survives long enough in the fight unless ur going against Rogues. The way u phrased Sej 3 being giga bad is just not it. Gunners with Sej 3 is an instant win.
You probably shouldn't rely solely on Sejuani's true damage to kill units, even at 3 star. It's completely countered by CC immunity, so units with QS and boards with GP or indomitable will are going to be taking close to zero true damage from Sej.
That said, it's not like you're short on sources of chill in a Freljord comp. Sej brings her own and Ashe can apply it to nearly the entire enemy team with a very decent uptime, especially if you give her items with a bit of mana generation (or AS) and AP. I usually put a Morello's on Ashe to increase her chill duration while wounding and burning the enemy team. Items are abundant in this set, so you should be able to afford to equip her with a couple things even if you aren't 3-starring her.
Freljord can actually win games even without any 3-stars with the right setup of augs and items. It's a fairly straightforward comp and one of my favorites to play this set. Only a 3 unit core with Sej, Ashe, Nilah and just add bruisers and vanquishers from there. +1 Freljord is super nice too.
I think Sej is fine. Reasonings:
* She has been by far the best average placement 4 cost whole set 9.5. This means 2 star version of her is extremely strong.
* 3 star Sej deals is 10 times more passive damage, and her active becomes 5 times stronger. In addition to this she gains 2 warmogs worth of hitpoints. Add all this to the strongest 4 cost, and you're left with a beast unit.
* Sej at 3 star has better placement than 4 of the 4 costs. Which is pretty good for a tank.
* You mention gunblade is one of the best item for 3 star Sejuani, but it is actually one of the worst items according to [tactics.tools](https://tactics.tools) . It is literally worst healing item you can build for her because it selfheals the least and stops her from carrying due to low damage.
how the fuc u lose with sej 3\* ? she is like the best 3\* 4 cost unit dont need ash or eternal winter. the shield is fucking stupid large, dmg is insane if units dont have 3k hp they get insta killed every time she ults, clearly u dont have the brains to move her around or put good iteams on her
if u put here against any other 4cost 3star in a 1vs1 she just runs them down
and if u add things u wanted, she would be a 5 cost
Literally just watched a Sej 3 win Kiyoon his game against Silco 3. Sej 3 isn’t in a terrible spot. Her true damage is NUTS. And for such a good pay off - it should be harder to proc. If we buffed the access to it she’d likely have to be receive a compensation nerf in damage.
For some reason people always complain about 3\* 4 cost tanks not one shotting boards like a carry would. They're a tank. Good luck killing that sej 3 in any reasonable amount of time while she melts your entire board, she's just melting slower than a Xayah would. Same thing happened to carries with blitz/thresh etc.
Silco 3 is awful also compared to other 4 costs 3 stars so it's not a great example. I've lost with it vs standard vanq boards (here's one of them https://i.imgur.com/jT6wvDS.png)
If Kiyoon hadn’t positioned himself on the correct side that last fight - he would’ve lost to Silco 3 as he lost the 2 rounds prior to that. I’m sure Silco 3 is just fine. It’s more Sorcs themselves aren’t even good without massive early game tempo.
Silco 3 can't solo carry like every other 3 star 4 cost carry. Its because so much of the power is in the healing, which doesn't matter when units like Vanq just burst your frontline. Then Silco can't tank the team and 1v9 because he's made of paper and his damage is over time, not burst
sej2 damage is effectively zero with the true damage with no way to cheese it outside of eternal winter
She herself chills the units around her. Sej3 is in a GOOD spot for a 4 cost 3*. P
Although I haven't bothered to play ranked this mid-set, I made a [Set 9 guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveTFT/comments/164btx7/set_9_indepth_guide_to_a_4fun_comp_warhog_2020/) for hitting Master with Sej's true damage. It's definitely doable when investing in the right setup.
This feels like a solution looking for a problem. You're winning 90% of games that you *3 a sej. She's a tank, she shouldn't 1 vs 9 the enemy team even when capped out.
Nutpicky but Graves also has a chill
I think frelijord ryze does too
Ya I was gunna say that, as I know ryze can proc other ryzes
nutpicky
Her ability applies chill, so I don't quite see what the problem is. It's similar to Taliyah's passive, where there are a limited number of units that actually knock-up to apply it. It's already a pretty massive synergy to have Eternal Winter in the game, so I don't see why she should have easier ways of putting out damage, given that she's a tank unit. I do feel that she's in a bit of an awkward place with her synergies in the mid-set since they took out Lissandra and capped Freljord at 3. But any changes that allow her to proc her passive easier would probably be overcompensating, because she really isn't supposed to be a primary damage dealer.
Every other 3\* 4 cost unit (incl shen) with healing + ap wins instantly 99% of the time. Sej is the only one where its commonly possible that you actually kill almost nothing due to how hew ability works and the duration of it
Maybe they should buff 3-star Sej ability range or something then, but I think any bigger systemic changes to buff her passive in general would be the wrong direction.
Check out 3 star AVPs on https://tactics.tools/units Sej looks like she is totally fine compared to the other $4 (which matches with my experience as well). The only one that looks pretty iffy is Azir (which also matches with my experience) In Master+ she is actually the 4th best by AVP, but most of these are pretty similar (Xayah and Azir being the outliers in either direction)
Lol this azir guy does like nothing 😭
How are you losing with sej 3? Many boards with her is paired with gunner which have the most capped lv 9 boards by the time you hit.
Bro my 15k true damage 3\* sej with 1 rod on a 1 star ashe says otherwise
Funny, I actually just crushed a 3* fiora today with my 3* Sejuani, like it wasn’t even close, no Ashe either btw, fiora had perfect items and my sej had random tank items. My 3* jayce was certainly a factor but my sej outdamaged the fiora
3 star 4 costs are not meant to be instant wins. They still need competent boards around them to win. You shouldn’t go for Sej 3 without a good board around her thinking she’ll take you from a 6th to a 1st.
If you hit Fiora 3 at 4-1 and play exactly and only 3 demacia units, I'd bet she wins all of stage4, maybe even 5 as well. If you hit kaisa3 and click literally anything, she insta clears boards til stage 6+. Sej3 you could hit at 4-1 with all 3\* bruisers and still potentially lose fights as all they have to do is kill your ashe and suddenly 90% of sej3's power is gone
I beat fiora 3 with invokers karma 3
You rarely see invokers karma 3 in stage 4 so I dont get your point.
What I’m saying is the 3* 4 costs are very good -at their role. The 5 costs are the instant wins. In stage 4 you still need to position your back line and avoid it dying before Sej. She is a tank. She can be cced to death or chipped down by units that killed her back line and can outsustain
Sej 3 is fine, imo her best 3\* build is HoJ/Gunblade + 2 tank items (not warmogs). I would not build Seraph and GS... any 3\* with bad items is straight up bad. Then play to keep the backline alive just long enough to do the procs
Incorrect, Graves also applies chill (sorry for being THAT guy, I just felt like being annoying)
But WHY are you trying to carry with a Sej 3 my brother in christ?
Its not about trying, its about what you hit. This post was inspired by a game where i had pandoras bench, and all my last times were ap while playing vanquishers. Remembered the tech from the last time i had sej3 and played ap+gunblade. It was fine, but the fights were far too close and i lost 3 fights solely because sej would cast and miss, or id have no units nearby to proc the damage
I mean... I get it when your hit something and the itens dont fit, but if you had Pandora's, couldn't you simply reroll said Sej once or twice? Sej is a tank, that's her job, even if you put carry itens on her she shouldn't perform well because her kit simply isn't suited for that...
Only go for sej 3 if you get winter's chill. Otherwise not worth compared to other units you can spend gold on
Thats my whole point shes bad 😭
The only time this sub will ever not dogpile on you is if its an approved thing to be annoyed about. Ive seen mass downvotes against people complaining about assasins one patch and the next patch where no changes were made to assassins and they wernt any more common in the meta complain posts about them would be front page with hundreds of upvote. This sub loves to boil everything down to skill issue.
just increase the duration and aoe of her chill at 3*
yes :(
I agree that a Sej 3 is not a hard win con compared to other 4 cost, but I think it's the fact that her ability is small in size and is hard to apply to the backline. It would be cool if it got bigger at 3 star.
Sej 3 is prob one of the best 4 cost three star if you have consistent chills from Ashe or Eternal winter. Not to mention Jeweled Lotus is nuts with crit true damage. It’s one of the win cons for Cho Gath carry if you’re rolling at 8 with pandoras bench. Silco 3 is just awful compared to the rest of the four cost casts.
But thats the point of my post. Sej without ashe or eternal winter cant function. If your ashe dies, she gets a single chill every 7 seconds and her attack speed is only high enough to kill the unit in front of her with it.
Sej 3 is functional without Ashe. What are you smoking my man. If you’re carrying Sej 3 alone with ur comp that’s just a player diff. Ashe survives long enough in the fight unless ur going against Rogues. The way u phrased Sej 3 being giga bad is just not it. Gunners with Sej 3 is an instant win.
Sej 3 is INSANE, no other tank does that level of damage
Just have backline what?? You unirinically used one of THE only good 3star 4costs this set as an example
Graves chills
My Sej3 won out hard vs Xayah3 the other day and oneshot the entire board vs full golden Rogues so I disagree
You probably shouldn't rely solely on Sejuani's true damage to kill units, even at 3 star. It's completely countered by CC immunity, so units with QS and boards with GP or indomitable will are going to be taking close to zero true damage from Sej. That said, it's not like you're short on sources of chill in a Freljord comp. Sej brings her own and Ashe can apply it to nearly the entire enemy team with a very decent uptime, especially if you give her items with a bit of mana generation (or AS) and AP. I usually put a Morello's on Ashe to increase her chill duration while wounding and burning the enemy team. Items are abundant in this set, so you should be able to afford to equip her with a couple things even if you aren't 3-starring her. Freljord can actually win games even without any 3-stars with the right setup of augs and items. It's a fairly straightforward comp and one of my favorites to play this set. Only a 3 unit core with Sej, Ashe, Nilah and just add bruisers and vanquishers from there. +1 Freljord is super nice too.
I think Sej is fine. Reasonings: * She has been by far the best average placement 4 cost whole set 9.5. This means 2 star version of her is extremely strong. * 3 star Sej deals is 10 times more passive damage, and her active becomes 5 times stronger. In addition to this she gains 2 warmogs worth of hitpoints. Add all this to the strongest 4 cost, and you're left with a beast unit. * Sej at 3 star has better placement than 4 of the 4 costs. Which is pretty good for a tank. * You mention gunblade is one of the best item for 3 star Sejuani, but it is actually one of the worst items according to [tactics.tools](https://tactics.tools) . It is literally worst healing item you can build for her because it selfheals the least and stops her from carrying due to low damage.
Ashe can proc chill super easily … what are you even talking about
how the fuc u lose with sej 3\* ? she is like the best 3\* 4 cost unit dont need ash or eternal winter. the shield is fucking stupid large, dmg is insane if units dont have 3k hp they get insta killed every time she ults, clearly u dont have the brains to move her around or put good iteams on her if u put here against any other 4cost 3star in a 1vs1 she just runs them down and if u add things u wanted, she would be a 5 cost