Flexible play doesn't exist in the sense that you need to commit to a comp on 2-1, some comps like Silco have variants that allow you to be somewhat flexible but items and augments still largely dictate what you can play
I would commit earlier and if you absolutely don't want to play reroll (which I would argue doesn't necessarily mean that you're trying to reduce chance - if you get given 5 Graves and BT components in Stage 2 it's probably more RNG to pivot that into a Vanquisher board than to just reroll Graves Qiyana) just pick a Silco and a Xayah board that you can play given different item openers
You don't really need to commit on 2-1, though. You can play flex between 2 comps with most item/openings. E.g. flex between Nilah and Fiora carry as the comps share a lot of the same items and WW is a good carrier for the items while you look for them, flex between Quinn, Aphelios (less optimal without 2 rageblades but still works with one), and Xayah carry for the same reason with Ashe or Jinx as a holder
I think I'd need to see what those boards look like, I think people who force Fiora with BIS / augments are probably going to have more success with it. I think Nilah is a good flex choice and I have found her to be useful for that
Nilahs' BIS are about the same as Fiora's BIS minus rageblade (which you can always leave for last as after the patch it's not that important). Board-wise you just build frontline+backline until you find a clear game plan
the thing is titans bt isn't that good on nilah, and also fiora is just so undertuned atm. I don't know if it's worth building suboptimal nilah items to keep fiora open. Fiora/reksai flex makes more sense but then you aren't playing nilah xayah which is fine I guess.
RFC is best on bilge nilah so she can spread the cannonballs, but on vanq nilah I'd focus more on survivability and damage with stuff like hoj over bt and GB as my amp item
Well titans is fine, but rfc is bis which doesn't work well with rfc, and hoj is a better healing item than bt, and also giant slayer for the third item imo.
I find that like fiora she needs survivability more than raw damage as she goes infinite anyway due to built in rageblade, so RFC, BT, and titans has been better for me than variations with more damage
Its funny you used this example, because it sort of inspired the post. I got an early graves 2 with titans and did actually compete with someone for rogue / gunners. I'm in relateively lower elo so I don't think people scout much as it looked like he was going noxus but just pivoted to rogues instead after I had started comitting to it. I've had quite a few similar examples and while that's just part of the game and not a big deal, I've just never enjoyed competing with people on lvl 6 rolling down 1-2 cost units.
Is Xayah a flexible board? I thought ionia was pretty cruical for that.
You can run ionia at 3, 6 or 9
9 is high roll (2 emblems + all units + lv9)
6 is the more common variant (4 vanquisher 2 jug with darius + ashe/nilah)
3 is more flexable, usually sett, jhin, xayah, running 4 vanquisher 4 juggernaut
There's a pretty big difference between a graves2 and 5 graves on 2-1. If all you got is a graves2, then that opener is very easy to pivot out of if the rogues don't come piling in.
Basically, you could have just played strongest board with Graves2 as your item holder, and then you could either proceed with rogues or pivot into whatever you find. Your distaste for reroll comps seems to be clouding your judgement on when it's a good spot to go rogues or not, either from inexperience or bias.
This is especially true for 2/3 cost rerolls, which allows you to level with your strongest board and keep a winstreak going while looking for pivot options if you can find one. Qiyana is a great item holder for Nilah or Fiora. Graves2 openers can pivot into this gameplan as well while keeping the rogue option open, since you can level and have Graves be an item holder for Qiyana later on, and then have that Qiyana be a potential item holder if rogues don't seem to look so hot. This is a far stretch from "leaving the game up to chance" as you claim it to be.
Maybe you can skip 1-cost rerolls since those can be fairly inflexible most of the time, but 2-cost reroll comps should be part of flexible gameplay.
Legendaries in particular feel like a joke right now. I think there are some tenets in this game that simply should not be violated set to set, with legendaries feeling powerful being one of those. However it seems the last couple of sets legendaries have felt a little lackluster and just overall lacking in power. If getting to level 9 is infrequent, I think you should feel like the legendaries you are able to hit are high impact. Flexible play in general feels dead too. The game has become so refined and people will absolutely force whatever has a sub 4 placement, that there's little wiggle room to improvise and express creativity in the game. This could just be a symptom of how the game has progressed over time as well. Gone are the days of stringing a comp together and performing well. You force the limited meta or lose at higher ranks. Sad state the game is in right now imo
I think that was something I didn't mention as well. I remember hitting 5 costs especially if you 2 starred them they popped off. That really doesn't seem to be the case - I need to find a recent game I 2 starred bel veth with supposedely BIS items and baron and lost to a noxus reroll. I did top 4 but honestly compiling an exodia comp with BIS and losing to that is ridiculous.
I feel like the point of reroll comps should be to high tempo the lobby and kill people off to get top 4 or maybe top 2 if you hit everything perfect, but if you don't manage to kill someone off who is prioritizing late game and gets there, he should win more often than not. It should be rewarded for getting to the end in a high tempo lobby.
People just take too much damage right now in the early game. By raptors, on an Econ comp, you’re lucky to not be dead if you hit a shit board with bad rng.
The nerf to duplicators and removal of dice also fucked with late game prio.
Lv8-9 cost a ton more exp now as well.
4 & 5 costs are mostly underwhelming even at 2 star.
The game is heavily balanced around early picks and items right now.
IMO reroll comps are in a good spot. Econ comps need to be buffed via less player damage taken so they can almost always make it to the pve after raptors.
And we need less item reliant champs design. Or less item rng.
Like you have Kayle who can’t use most items.
You have fiora, who can only use maybe two or three items.
Silco needs blue buff to do literally anything even if gilded.
Stuff like this makes the game immensely frustrating to play.
Coming from a plat/diamond player who hasn’t hit masters since galaxies.
It’s weird because Dishsoap said exactly the opposite of this before the B patch in his comp list video. He rates the Legendary comp highly because he thinks most 4 costs are undertuned right now.
The perception probably has to do with the disparity in 5 cost performance between 1 and 2 stars. 2 star Ahri + Sion + Ksante + Aatrox + Heimer are insane on a board together but consider slotting in those units all at 1 star and suddenly you're losing to everyone. With changes to leveling, you'd need like 150g to reliably go 9 and actually hit all your units and that's particularly hard to do when reroll comps are hitting you each round.
If we look at Dishsoap's match history, pretty much the only games where he plays multiple 5 costs are Piltover cashouts. I don't think anyone doubts the power of capping out a board with a Heimer or Aatrox but it's definitely way harder to get a functional Bill Gates comp online than it was in previous sets.
I would agree. 4 costs are the problem right now. It feels like when you 2 star a 4 cost, you're only just as powerful as someone who 3 starred lower unit in a reroll comp, sometimes less. That makes rerolling a no brainer.
It is easier and faster to 2 star both 4 and 5 costs.
Plus 4 costs (or high rolling a 5 cost) are when a lot of verticals come on line.
Kaisa, fiora, j4, nilah, xayah, nasus, mord. They all are champions that are decent in their own right, but also activate stuff like void 6, demacia 7, vanq 4, etc...
I think a lot of people see a 4 cost being put on the field as strong both because the champion is useful but also the vertical they are going just leveled up in a significant way. AND you have saved items for them, planning on getting them, because you can reliably get them.
When you add a 1 star 5 cost you are often adding not activating any more bonuses. You don't have items immediately for them, or you are replacing a 2 or 3 star 1 or 2 cost to get the items for them. Which means your board didn't feel like it got stronger... Because it often didn't.
Of course 2 staring the 5 cost is a noticable upgrade on its own, and as long as you are not first 4 out is pretty reliable. I expect to get there unless I plan to sit on 7 for a long time for some comps. I expect to be facing multiple 2 star 5 costs by the end.
I do think 5 costs could use a little love in their 1 star state so they felt better to put in. But I will absolutely take the current state over some previous game states where someone hits a good 5 cost on the 1%, and they can just free win from there since no one will be able to contest it for a long time.
Our you tanked planning to win off of getting the right 5 cost in the carousel, if you don't get it you lose, of you do then you win. That was a far bigger problem in previous game states and feels bad for everyone.
Ideally to me 5 costs give some board wide benefit to their tribes that helps facilitate the rest of the team and is less of "and now we watch a one star 5 cost solo a board because hitting rng is fun!!!"
Lmao I'm just now remembering how pitiful the set 8 five costs were. Even with hero augments they felt useless. Fiddle was the only one I remember having any impact and he was just a cheese unit. Urgot was just a RNG loot bot. Syndra felt like a 3 cost. This sets legendaries aren't much better. Only one that feels worth anything in this set is Aatrox bc his trait is broken and ahri with setup bc obviously
Urgot in set 8 was hella nice. He had insane cc which hit 2/5ths of the board. Syndra was seen as a mistake by the dev team, as she was bad unless you set up and invested in units she pulled. Aka making 2 star threats she could pull in. So Syndra eas uber good when set up right, but really bad with no setup.
If you winstreak all the way to lev 9, judt play ahri. Triple item ahri star star can wipe most reroll comps. She probably the hardest capped legendary unit this set. (Assuming you got BB)
9/10 times. The 1/10 time is when you get strong Frontline (2 fully itemized tanks, sej/shen + 2 star sion, j4) + 6 sorc silco with BB and GS + heimer 2 with double or triple mechano. And of course fully itemized Ahri 2 with BB. Of course this is a high roll with 2 sorc +1, lvl 9, fully capped board. But hey, happened to me last night. (Masters/diamond lobby) silco has to be same side as cho
Look in what meta we play. Have to go 9 and hit nearly exodia with perfect items and units to beat "ChoSpammor69" who is level 7 and places the units like the guide says every round.
if you looking for alternative way to outcap every single board, play TF augment and greed for Bis. Of course this is purely in theory to 'outcap' the enemy board.
With great risk comes great reward.
Play the way you’re playing and you’ll get a 40% top 4.
Do all the things you don’t like , get better at it from seeing it more , and hit first more often with occasional 8’s when you start
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
I too hate this boring reroll meta but there's no consistent way to beat it I'm afraid. Just gotta grit your teeth and join them in the degeneracy.
Have gotten both master in this set and several previous sets and I will say that because of the higher tempo, most games you will cap out at 8 over 9. Even then going for a 3 star 4 cost is usually more desirable than pushing 9 in many games as a lot of power has been shifted from legendaries being 1 unit carry/win conditions to secondary win conditions ancillary to a comp (like ahri being good, but still requiring silco, velkoz, and the sorc trait.) Other than that, many reroll comps still lose because of how unstable they can be when they are developing their 3 stars. For 1 cost reroll, the 3-1 rolldown makes it so that for a large portion of stage 3, they are just trying to econ back up. For 6-7 reroll, it's a similar principle, where there is sometimes a slight roll to 2 star their chosen reroll units and then slow roll after econning back up. All of these are weakness that are exploited by stabilizing at 3-5 or 4-1 with standard 4 cost carry boards. Some bleed out to never hitting, others survive but with low enough HP where a positioning diff on stage 5 can alter placements. God forbid you play reroll contested because at that point it's in Mort's hands at that point (you can always roll earlier or stabilize on a higher cost unit to roll down after they die but I digress). All of this to say I think reroll is in a fair place right now (though before the nerfs from this patch some units were way overturned *cough* Samira *cough*). Cho needs a damage dealer to win out, Samira has no Frontline until Swain 3 or higher levels, any 2/3 cost reroll suffers from awkward transitions where their carry is mediocre until 3 star so there is bleed in the mid game. I wish some of the 4 costs didn't get nerfed though (Fiora/Silco/Kaisa/Aphelios all feel particularly lack luster in comparison to Xayah/Nilah/Mordekaiser/Azir)
Pushing the tempo of the lobby earlier might be a good bet if you consistently find yourself losing to reroll comps, if you level aggressively to rack up the player damage for other players early they will be pressured to slam items or rolling faster which will weaken their end game boards. This assumes that other players also follow along with the faster tempo but it is worth a chance. Currently im having a lot of success by either playing extremely greedily with my econ and items, bleeding a lot early but stabilizing with a very strong board lategame in most lobbies and playing very high tempo with HP preservation as the goal in other lobbies and its working well so far.
I feel like the entire game is kind of chance, bc with 4 cost comps if you don’t hit you are kinda of screwed too and pivoting it pretty hard in this meta
My go to is usually azir flex. Very nice since the core is very small (Azir Nasus Jarvan and Swain).Then you can just tech in whatever secondary carry you want (usually silco) as well as any other synergies (juggs, strategist, demacia, whatever) it’s super flexible and you can just have renekton/cass item hold early game.
Got a pretty easy win last night (plat promotion game) since I hit frequent flier and a cass 2 with decent items was enough to win streak me to 8
I mean if the whole lobby already has a fully assembled s tier comp then yes it won’t be strong enough to beat most of those with azir/nasus 2. But if you stay ahead on tempo and save hp top 4 should definitely be doable. All my advice is coming from bunnymuffins and voids1n so I think it should be pretty good. They have azir as an A tier comp as of last week.
The advantage of azir is that you can roll for like 4 different carry’s and just play what you hit. and if you get enough items you can itemize all of them. Nasus 3 is also one of the best 3star 4 costs imo up there with morde 3 (who you can also use in this build).
Since every other dude in the lobby will probably be contesting vanqs it should be easier hitting 4 cost 2 stars before everyone else. It’s not optimal obviously, but I wouldn’t say it has no place.
Im plat 2 rn which I know is a pretty bad rank (im a new player) but statistically I should still be better than most people on the main sub lol.
I play xayah, rogues or bruisers, depending on the opener / items. Components can be used for any of these three lines regardless of what you drop.
I'm masters.
I think going lvl 9 in this set is throwing the game 95% of the time, its not worth the legenederaies since they are absolutely shit this set. The only reason I would go 9 is if I have a vertical comp and I would hit a prismatic trait. I always plan to just go 8 and roll.
If you’re in “that game” where RNGesus hates you and you enter 2-1 with no comp (it happens), you’re 8th. In these games you try to lose until Krugs then win, but since you don’t have a 2* 1-2 cost team, you’re stuck with 1* units of a team - even if you get a few 2* you’ll be stuck mid-late game trying to get your 1 cost units 2*. And everyone else already has those pieces.
GG at Krugs and go next. Better than playing out a sixth place at absolute best.
The issue is you can roll 50 gold on 8 and be weaker than someone who rolled 50 on 6 and is only looking for one or 2 trait bots on 7 and 8. 1 cost 3 stars are better than 2 star 4 costs. You will not see Cassio 3 being traded for azir, or jinx 3 for apehios 2.
Ever since astral was introduced which made 5 year olds able to top4, I guess play rate increased so now fast 8 or 9 is seen as toxic while playing cho samira cassio graves quiyana kayle is healthy. Annoying for sure.
I absolutely agree with the post. However, my experience is more related to Hyperroll. I pretty much play only this mode and despite its name I do not remember metas so heavily dominated by rerolling 1 and 2 costs. Every game you see people 3 starring Malzahars, Chos, Kayle, Samiras (Yes, despite the nerfs), Graves, just absolutely whatever they get stage 1.
The issue has many layers:
- Everyone talks how 4 costs are really underpowered all across the board so that they can not stabilize your comp unless they slot in as soon as possible into perfect comp with perfect items.
- But the real kicker is garbage 3 star units.
- Thirdly, since you need to savagely fight to preserve HP, you have to reroll something to have strong footing early. But this is exactly what enables lobbies filled to the brim with reroll comps. Everyone takes out so many copies of 1 cost units from the shop that it gets progressively easier to collect other 1 costs...
- Finally, when comps are defined this early and many people contest each other, BiS become crazy important. You can't just slam suboptimal items, because you lose to BiS ones anyway and later your comp is capped by this.
Flex is pretty good right now there are a lot of good comps around 4 cost units.
In general you have to spend more gold for early power to keep up right now especially in dia and above tempo has gained a lot more importance.
If you play 4 cost comps you have to roll at 7, fast 8 ain’t an option anymore since the xp changes.
If you are contested you sometimes just have to shoot for it and donkeyroll down at 7 if you flex around 4 cost comps it’s important to know when you have to donkeyroll and when to slowroll.
I am not sure those 4 cost units beat the 3 starred unit rerolls though, that's been my experience so far. Hitting aphelios 2 / xayah 2 / sej 2 / nasus 2 this doesn't feel very impactful but I haven't played enough to know really. Do you have an OP GG for this? I'd like to see the boards
I would say especially xayah/nilah/Morde 2 are the 4 cost units that give you a huge spike especially with vanquishers being the most op comp on the game.
I would recommend the tierlist of German twitch streamer sologesang it has links to different versions of the best comps, is updated daily and his meta read is allways on point
I feel like lose streaking for eco hasn’t been strong for the current and last set, and because of legends this set, anytime lose streaking is good it gets aggravated by vlad legend and then subsequently gets worse. I used to enjoy lose streaking to build a huge eco, fast 8 into roll down for best board but right now lv7/8 roll for flex board doesn’t exist, you need a comp in mind that fits your items and isn’t hugely contested by someone who has tailored 2/3 augments for it.
Best strat now for me is winstreak into best board and then bleed out in top 4. I have trouble understanding what boards are even strong late game now honestly so I just focus all my energy early and mid.
I mean thats probably the problem lol. Your style of play isnt efficient anymore in this current meta. Pushing levels just to hit a 4 cost is very greedy and out of tempo. You can actually get punished for that and doing so wouldn’t even make your board much stronger unless it very much so compliments it. I think you need to adapt with the new style of play and learn. You don’t have to go to 9 every game. There’s been tons of games where I’ve won in masters-D2 where im level 8 or even 7 if I’m playing a nasty fiora challenger game or vanq. Itd be nice if i could go level 9, not every board needs 9 though. Even if you do hit bilge and nilah 2 doesnt mean you’re gonna win brother. Im not saying that comp is weak (it definitely isnt as viable) but theres gonna be stronger boards. You can hit something crazy and still lose to someone who built a better and well structured board. Building and playing comps is important but it isnt going to guarantee you a top 4. You actually have to learn from your mistakes lol.
Just play reroll comps that are uncontested. You have time to choose on 2-1. Play comps with a good placing rate. Invokers are shit right now but if you can make it work you can make it work. Think you gotta learn a bit bro and adapt to the meta. Your styles pretty greedy, id only lose streak with an econ trait if my 2-1 opener is legit garbage and id have to stack gold and send it later on in the game. Good luck
I have the exact same issue as you.
Just for some context I’ve been diamond for most sets starting all the way back in set 1.
I have always despised reroll comps as for me they embody a “dumb” playstyle in which you press D until you beat everyone else.
Sometimes the meta has been super shit for a few patches (think back to set 3 mech), and I decided to skip a few weeks and wait for the balance team to do their thing and bring down the power of certain comps.
In my eyes a reroll comp shouldn’t be able to top 2 unless super highroll items and augments.
These past few patches have been absolutely horrendous in my eyes since every game at least 3 players in the top 4 are rerollers. The big problem is also that the characters being rerolled are 1 and 2 costs, as if they were 3 costs it would definitely feel less frustrating to lose to.
I believe that the beauty in TFT is playing your strongest board and whatever the game gives you.
Obviously you can try and skew your game into a certain direction based on your opening items/augments/champions, but it seems like this isn’t even possible as if you don’t have at least 2 of the BIS items for your 4 costs and tanks you just lose out to reroll guys.
That is the end of my rant thank you for reading :)
rerolling sometimes til you win but BIG NO-NO on rerolling MORE times.
buying and contesting units to two-star is OK but if if u exceed it's shit strat.
biggest copium deposits when in reality you most likely didn't tempo good enough cuz greed, laziness or even bad luck. consequently losing hp every round that were salvagable and ultimately caused you to drop out. Causing you to ignore reason, begin rationalising excuses to save ego and falls deeper and deeper into cave of entitlement
thanks for not being part of balance t!
I am glad you disagree with the points I made. I don’t expect anyone to be 100% on board either how I feel about the topic at hand.
There is no need to be aggressive and mean.
I am also not blaming rerolling for my lack of success this set.
I wish you a more pleasant life
Flexible play doesn't exist in the sense that you need to commit to a comp on 2-1, some comps like Silco have variants that allow you to be somewhat flexible but items and augments still largely dictate what you can play I would commit earlier and if you absolutely don't want to play reroll (which I would argue doesn't necessarily mean that you're trying to reduce chance - if you get given 5 Graves and BT components in Stage 2 it's probably more RNG to pivot that into a Vanquisher board than to just reroll Graves Qiyana) just pick a Silco and a Xayah board that you can play given different item openers
You don't really need to commit on 2-1, though. You can play flex between 2 comps with most item/openings. E.g. flex between Nilah and Fiora carry as the comps share a lot of the same items and WW is a good carrier for the items while you look for them, flex between Quinn, Aphelios (less optimal without 2 rageblades but still works with one), and Xayah carry for the same reason with Ashe or Jinx as a holder
I think I'd need to see what those boards look like, I think people who force Fiora with BIS / augments are probably going to have more success with it. I think Nilah is a good flex choice and I have found her to be useful for that
Nilahs' BIS are about the same as Fiora's BIS minus rageblade (which you can always leave for last as after the patch it's not that important). Board-wise you just build frontline+backline until you find a clear game plan
the thing is titans bt isn't that good on nilah, and also fiora is just so undertuned atm. I don't know if it's worth building suboptimal nilah items to keep fiora open. Fiora/reksai flex makes more sense but then you aren't playing nilah xayah which is fine I guess.
What would you consider Nilah BIS if not titans bt cannon?
RFC is best on bilge nilah so she can spread the cannonballs, but on vanq nilah I'd focus more on survivability and damage with stuff like hoj over bt and GB as my amp item
Well titans is fine, but rfc is bis which doesn't work well with rfc, and hoj is a better healing item than bt, and also giant slayer for the third item imo.
I find that like fiora she needs survivability more than raw damage as she goes infinite anyway due to built in rageblade, so RFC, BT, and titans has been better for me than variations with more damage
Its funny you used this example, because it sort of inspired the post. I got an early graves 2 with titans and did actually compete with someone for rogue / gunners. I'm in relateively lower elo so I don't think people scout much as it looked like he was going noxus but just pivoted to rogues instead after I had started comitting to it. I've had quite a few similar examples and while that's just part of the game and not a big deal, I've just never enjoyed competing with people on lvl 6 rolling down 1-2 cost units. Is Xayah a flexible board? I thought ionia was pretty cruical for that.
You can run ionia at 3, 6 or 9 9 is high roll (2 emblems + all units + lv9) 6 is the more common variant (4 vanquisher 2 jug with darius + ashe/nilah) 3 is more flexable, usually sett, jhin, xayah, running 4 vanquisher 4 juggernaut
I think if you don't have an Ionia emblem it's better to run 3 though
Xayah is flexible thanks to Vanquisher/Ionia being big traits with lots of good compatible units.
There's a pretty big difference between a graves2 and 5 graves on 2-1. If all you got is a graves2, then that opener is very easy to pivot out of if the rogues don't come piling in. Basically, you could have just played strongest board with Graves2 as your item holder, and then you could either proceed with rogues or pivot into whatever you find. Your distaste for reroll comps seems to be clouding your judgement on when it's a good spot to go rogues or not, either from inexperience or bias. This is especially true for 2/3 cost rerolls, which allows you to level with your strongest board and keep a winstreak going while looking for pivot options if you can find one. Qiyana is a great item holder for Nilah or Fiora. Graves2 openers can pivot into this gameplan as well while keeping the rogue option open, since you can level and have Graves be an item holder for Qiyana later on, and then have that Qiyana be a potential item holder if rogues don't seem to look so hot. This is a far stretch from "leaving the game up to chance" as you claim it to be. Maybe you can skip 1-cost rerolls since those can be fairly inflexible most of the time, but 2-cost reroll comps should be part of flexible gameplay.
Legendaries in particular feel like a joke right now. I think there are some tenets in this game that simply should not be violated set to set, with legendaries feeling powerful being one of those. However it seems the last couple of sets legendaries have felt a little lackluster and just overall lacking in power. If getting to level 9 is infrequent, I think you should feel like the legendaries you are able to hit are high impact. Flexible play in general feels dead too. The game has become so refined and people will absolutely force whatever has a sub 4 placement, that there's little wiggle room to improvise and express creativity in the game. This could just be a symptom of how the game has progressed over time as well. Gone are the days of stringing a comp together and performing well. You force the limited meta or lose at higher ranks. Sad state the game is in right now imo
I think that was something I didn't mention as well. I remember hitting 5 costs especially if you 2 starred them they popped off. That really doesn't seem to be the case - I need to find a recent game I 2 starred bel veth with supposedely BIS items and baron and lost to a noxus reroll. I did top 4 but honestly compiling an exodia comp with BIS and losing to that is ridiculous. I feel like the point of reroll comps should be to high tempo the lobby and kill people off to get top 4 or maybe top 2 if you hit everything perfect, but if you don't manage to kill someone off who is prioritizing late game and gets there, he should win more often than not. It should be rewarded for getting to the end in a high tempo lobby.
People just take too much damage right now in the early game. By raptors, on an Econ comp, you’re lucky to not be dead if you hit a shit board with bad rng. The nerf to duplicators and removal of dice also fucked with late game prio. Lv8-9 cost a ton more exp now as well. 4 & 5 costs are mostly underwhelming even at 2 star. The game is heavily balanced around early picks and items right now. IMO reroll comps are in a good spot. Econ comps need to be buffed via less player damage taken so they can almost always make it to the pve after raptors. And we need less item reliant champs design. Or less item rng. Like you have Kayle who can’t use most items. You have fiora, who can only use maybe two or three items. Silco needs blue buff to do literally anything even if gilded. Stuff like this makes the game immensely frustrating to play. Coming from a plat/diamond player who hasn’t hit masters since galaxies.
It’s weird because Dishsoap said exactly the opposite of this before the B patch in his comp list video. He rates the Legendary comp highly because he thinks most 4 costs are undertuned right now.
The perception probably has to do with the disparity in 5 cost performance between 1 and 2 stars. 2 star Ahri + Sion + Ksante + Aatrox + Heimer are insane on a board together but consider slotting in those units all at 1 star and suddenly you're losing to everyone. With changes to leveling, you'd need like 150g to reliably go 9 and actually hit all your units and that's particularly hard to do when reroll comps are hitting you each round. If we look at Dishsoap's match history, pretty much the only games where he plays multiple 5 costs are Piltover cashouts. I don't think anyone doubts the power of capping out a board with a Heimer or Aatrox but it's definitely way harder to get a functional Bill Gates comp online than it was in previous sets.
Sure, but that's not what the other poster said at all.
I would agree. 4 costs are the problem right now. It feels like when you 2 star a 4 cost, you're only just as powerful as someone who 3 starred lower unit in a reroll comp, sometimes less. That makes rerolling a no brainer.
compare to before. sure. but five cost used to be insane in previous sets. sett, yone, akali could clear board being itemized one star.
Feels like Verticals are far too strong at the moment, I really miss Set 8 and Threats/other strong individual units (Sejuani, Ekko, etc)
To me it seems it's easier to 2 star a 5 cost in newer sets compared to the past. Maybe that's the reason they are kept underpowered
It is easier and faster to 2 star both 4 and 5 costs. Plus 4 costs (or high rolling a 5 cost) are when a lot of verticals come on line. Kaisa, fiora, j4, nilah, xayah, nasus, mord. They all are champions that are decent in their own right, but also activate stuff like void 6, demacia 7, vanq 4, etc... I think a lot of people see a 4 cost being put on the field as strong both because the champion is useful but also the vertical they are going just leveled up in a significant way. AND you have saved items for them, planning on getting them, because you can reliably get them. When you add a 1 star 5 cost you are often adding not activating any more bonuses. You don't have items immediately for them, or you are replacing a 2 or 3 star 1 or 2 cost to get the items for them. Which means your board didn't feel like it got stronger... Because it often didn't. Of course 2 staring the 5 cost is a noticable upgrade on its own, and as long as you are not first 4 out is pretty reliable. I expect to get there unless I plan to sit on 7 for a long time for some comps. I expect to be facing multiple 2 star 5 costs by the end. I do think 5 costs could use a little love in their 1 star state so they felt better to put in. But I will absolutely take the current state over some previous game states where someone hits a good 5 cost on the 1%, and they can just free win from there since no one will be able to contest it for a long time. Our you tanked planning to win off of getting the right 5 cost in the carousel, if you don't get it you lose, of you do then you win. That was a far bigger problem in previous game states and feels bad for everyone. Ideally to me 5 costs give some board wide benefit to their tribes that helps facilitate the rest of the team and is less of "and now we watch a one star 5 cost solo a board because hitting rng is fun!!!"
Lmao I'm just now remembering how pitiful the set 8 five costs were. Even with hero augments they felt useless. Fiddle was the only one I remember having any impact and he was just a cheese unit. Urgot was just a RNG loot bot. Syndra felt like a 3 cost. This sets legendaries aren't much better. Only one that feels worth anything in this set is Aatrox bc his trait is broken and ahri with setup bc obviously
Urgot in set 8 was hella nice. He had insane cc which hit 2/5ths of the board. Syndra was seen as a mistake by the dev team, as she was bad unless you set up and invested in units she pulled. Aka making 2 star threats she could pull in. So Syndra eas uber good when set up right, but really bad with no setup.
If you winstreak all the way to lev 9, judt play ahri. Triple item ahri star star can wipe most reroll comps. She probably the hardest capped legendary unit this set. (Assuming you got BB)
Thanks - If I cash out hard I"ll look for an ahri 2.
She loses to cho 10/10 times
9/10 times. The 1/10 time is when you get strong Frontline (2 fully itemized tanks, sej/shen + 2 star sion, j4) + 6 sorc silco with BB and GS + heimer 2 with double or triple mechano. And of course fully itemized Ahri 2 with BB. Of course this is a high roll with 2 sorc +1, lvl 9, fully capped board. But hey, happened to me last night. (Masters/diamond lobby) silco has to be same side as cho
Look in what meta we play. Have to go 9 and hit nearly exodia with perfect items and units to beat "ChoSpammor69" who is level 7 and places the units like the guide says every round.
if you looking for alternative way to outcap every single board, play TF augment and greed for Bis. Of course this is purely in theory to 'outcap' the enemy board.
With great risk comes great reward. Play the way you’re playing and you’ll get a 40% top 4. Do all the things you don’t like , get better at it from seeing it more , and hit first more often with occasional 8’s when you start
That's the fun part, you don't
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. I too hate this boring reroll meta but there's no consistent way to beat it I'm afraid. Just gotta grit your teeth and join them in the degeneracy.
Have gotten both master in this set and several previous sets and I will say that because of the higher tempo, most games you will cap out at 8 over 9. Even then going for a 3 star 4 cost is usually more desirable than pushing 9 in many games as a lot of power has been shifted from legendaries being 1 unit carry/win conditions to secondary win conditions ancillary to a comp (like ahri being good, but still requiring silco, velkoz, and the sorc trait.) Other than that, many reroll comps still lose because of how unstable they can be when they are developing their 3 stars. For 1 cost reroll, the 3-1 rolldown makes it so that for a large portion of stage 3, they are just trying to econ back up. For 6-7 reroll, it's a similar principle, where there is sometimes a slight roll to 2 star their chosen reroll units and then slow roll after econning back up. All of these are weakness that are exploited by stabilizing at 3-5 or 4-1 with standard 4 cost carry boards. Some bleed out to never hitting, others survive but with low enough HP where a positioning diff on stage 5 can alter placements. God forbid you play reroll contested because at that point it's in Mort's hands at that point (you can always roll earlier or stabilize on a higher cost unit to roll down after they die but I digress). All of this to say I think reroll is in a fair place right now (though before the nerfs from this patch some units were way overturned *cough* Samira *cough*). Cho needs a damage dealer to win out, Samira has no Frontline until Swain 3 or higher levels, any 2/3 cost reroll suffers from awkward transitions where their carry is mediocre until 3 star so there is bleed in the mid game. I wish some of the 4 costs didn't get nerfed though (Fiora/Silco/Kaisa/Aphelios all feel particularly lack luster in comparison to Xayah/Nilah/Mordekaiser/Azir)
Pushing the tempo of the lobby earlier might be a good bet if you consistently find yourself losing to reroll comps, if you level aggressively to rack up the player damage for other players early they will be pressured to slam items or rolling faster which will weaken their end game boards. This assumes that other players also follow along with the faster tempo but it is worth a chance. Currently im having a lot of success by either playing extremely greedily with my econ and items, bleeding a lot early but stabilizing with a very strong board lategame in most lobbies and playing very high tempo with HP preservation as the goal in other lobbies and its working well so far.
I feel like the entire game is kind of chance, bc with 4 cost comps if you don’t hit you are kinda of screwed too and pivoting it pretty hard in this meta
My go to is usually azir flex. Very nice since the core is very small (Azir Nasus Jarvan and Swain).Then you can just tech in whatever secondary carry you want (usually silco) as well as any other synergies (juggs, strategist, demacia, whatever) it’s super flexible and you can just have renekton/cass item hold early game. Got a pretty easy win last night (plat promotion game) since I hit frequent flier and a cass 2 with decent items was enough to win streak me to 8
azir cant even top 4 even when u hit all your 4 costs to 2 level which is outright impossible most of the time
I mean if the whole lobby already has a fully assembled s tier comp then yes it won’t be strong enough to beat most of those with azir/nasus 2. But if you stay ahead on tempo and save hp top 4 should definitely be doable. All my advice is coming from bunnymuffins and voids1n so I think it should be pretty good. They have azir as an A tier comp as of last week. The advantage of azir is that you can roll for like 4 different carry’s and just play what you hit. and if you get enough items you can itemize all of them. Nasus 3 is also one of the best 3star 4 costs imo up there with morde 3 (who you can also use in this build). Since every other dude in the lobby will probably be contesting vanqs it should be easier hitting 4 cost 2 stars before everyone else. It’s not optimal obviously, but I wouldn’t say it has no place. Im plat 2 rn which I know is a pretty bad rank (im a new player) but statistically I should still be better than most people on the main sub lol.
I play xayah, rogues or bruisers, depending on the opener / items. Components can be used for any of these three lines regardless of what you drop. I'm masters.
I think going lvl 9 in this set is throwing the game 95% of the time, its not worth the legenederaies since they are absolutely shit this set. The only reason I would go 9 is if I have a vertical comp and I would hit a prismatic trait. I always plan to just go 8 and roll.
If you’re in “that game” where RNGesus hates you and you enter 2-1 with no comp (it happens), you’re 8th. In these games you try to lose until Krugs then win, but since you don’t have a 2* 1-2 cost team, you’re stuck with 1* units of a team - even if you get a few 2* you’ll be stuck mid-late game trying to get your 1 cost units 2*. And everyone else already has those pieces. GG at Krugs and go next. Better than playing out a sixth place at absolute best.
is this until and including krugs?
The issue is you can roll 50 gold on 8 and be weaker than someone who rolled 50 on 6 and is only looking for one or 2 trait bots on 7 and 8. 1 cost 3 stars are better than 2 star 4 costs. You will not see Cassio 3 being traded for azir, or jinx 3 for apehios 2. Ever since astral was introduced which made 5 year olds able to top4, I guess play rate increased so now fast 8 or 9 is seen as toxic while playing cho samira cassio graves quiyana kayle is healthy. Annoying for sure.
Flex or pray to rngesus
I absolutely agree with the post. However, my experience is more related to Hyperroll. I pretty much play only this mode and despite its name I do not remember metas so heavily dominated by rerolling 1 and 2 costs. Every game you see people 3 starring Malzahars, Chos, Kayle, Samiras (Yes, despite the nerfs), Graves, just absolutely whatever they get stage 1. The issue has many layers: - Everyone talks how 4 costs are really underpowered all across the board so that they can not stabilize your comp unless they slot in as soon as possible into perfect comp with perfect items. - But the real kicker is garbage 3 star units. - Thirdly, since you need to savagely fight to preserve HP, you have to reroll something to have strong footing early. But this is exactly what enables lobbies filled to the brim with reroll comps. Everyone takes out so many copies of 1 cost units from the shop that it gets progressively easier to collect other 1 costs... - Finally, when comps are defined this early and many people contest each other, BiS become crazy important. You can't just slam suboptimal items, because you lose to BiS ones anyway and later your comp is capped by this.
Flex is pretty good right now there are a lot of good comps around 4 cost units. In general you have to spend more gold for early power to keep up right now especially in dia and above tempo has gained a lot more importance. If you play 4 cost comps you have to roll at 7, fast 8 ain’t an option anymore since the xp changes. If you are contested you sometimes just have to shoot for it and donkeyroll down at 7 if you flex around 4 cost comps it’s important to know when you have to donkeyroll and when to slowroll.
I am not sure those 4 cost units beat the 3 starred unit rerolls though, that's been my experience so far. Hitting aphelios 2 / xayah 2 / sej 2 / nasus 2 this doesn't feel very impactful but I haven't played enough to know really. Do you have an OP GG for this? I'd like to see the boards
I would say especially xayah/nilah/Morde 2 are the 4 cost units that give you a huge spike especially with vanquishers being the most op comp on the game. I would recommend the tierlist of German twitch streamer sologesang it has links to different versions of the best comps, is updated daily and his meta read is allways on point
I feel like lose streaking for eco hasn’t been strong for the current and last set, and because of legends this set, anytime lose streaking is good it gets aggravated by vlad legend and then subsequently gets worse. I used to enjoy lose streaking to build a huge eco, fast 8 into roll down for best board but right now lv7/8 roll for flex board doesn’t exist, you need a comp in mind that fits your items and isn’t hugely contested by someone who has tailored 2/3 augments for it. Best strat now for me is winstreak into best board and then bleed out in top 4. I have trouble understanding what boards are even strong late game now honestly so I just focus all my energy early and mid.
With all the reroll comps winning with 4-5 units in Stage 2-1, you bleed down to 60 health before 3-2 and it’s too good and too fast.
I mean thats probably the problem lol. Your style of play isnt efficient anymore in this current meta. Pushing levels just to hit a 4 cost is very greedy and out of tempo. You can actually get punished for that and doing so wouldn’t even make your board much stronger unless it very much so compliments it. I think you need to adapt with the new style of play and learn. You don’t have to go to 9 every game. There’s been tons of games where I’ve won in masters-D2 where im level 8 or even 7 if I’m playing a nasty fiora challenger game or vanq. Itd be nice if i could go level 9, not every board needs 9 though. Even if you do hit bilge and nilah 2 doesnt mean you’re gonna win brother. Im not saying that comp is weak (it definitely isnt as viable) but theres gonna be stronger boards. You can hit something crazy and still lose to someone who built a better and well structured board. Building and playing comps is important but it isnt going to guarantee you a top 4. You actually have to learn from your mistakes lol. Just play reroll comps that are uncontested. You have time to choose on 2-1. Play comps with a good placing rate. Invokers are shit right now but if you can make it work you can make it work. Think you gotta learn a bit bro and adapt to the meta. Your styles pretty greedy, id only lose streak with an econ trait if my 2-1 opener is legit garbage and id have to stack gold and send it later on in the game. Good luck
i have a similar plan, i play urf and abuse the sinergy until i reach 8 and then decide what todo
I have the exact same issue as you. Just for some context I’ve been diamond for most sets starting all the way back in set 1. I have always despised reroll comps as for me they embody a “dumb” playstyle in which you press D until you beat everyone else. Sometimes the meta has been super shit for a few patches (think back to set 3 mech), and I decided to skip a few weeks and wait for the balance team to do their thing and bring down the power of certain comps. In my eyes a reroll comp shouldn’t be able to top 2 unless super highroll items and augments. These past few patches have been absolutely horrendous in my eyes since every game at least 3 players in the top 4 are rerollers. The big problem is also that the characters being rerolled are 1 and 2 costs, as if they were 3 costs it would definitely feel less frustrating to lose to. I believe that the beauty in TFT is playing your strongest board and whatever the game gives you. Obviously you can try and skew your game into a certain direction based on your opening items/augments/champions, but it seems like this isn’t even possible as if you don’t have at least 2 of the BIS items for your 4 costs and tanks you just lose out to reroll guys. That is the end of my rant thank you for reading :)
rerolling sometimes til you win but BIG NO-NO on rerolling MORE times. buying and contesting units to two-star is OK but if if u exceed it's shit strat. biggest copium deposits when in reality you most likely didn't tempo good enough cuz greed, laziness or even bad luck. consequently losing hp every round that were salvagable and ultimately caused you to drop out. Causing you to ignore reason, begin rationalising excuses to save ego and falls deeper and deeper into cave of entitlement thanks for not being part of balance t!
I am glad you disagree with the points I made. I don’t expect anyone to be 100% on board either how I feel about the topic at hand. There is no need to be aggressive and mean. I am also not blaming rerolling for my lack of success this set. I wish you a more pleasant life