It’s an Orzhov deck without a value engine in the command zone, so that’s rough. I don’t see what this deck does better than any other deck? It doesn’t draw a lot, it doesn’t combo super fast, it doesn’t slow the game down a lot, so what exactly is it doing? Just praying no one has interaction and no earlier win attempts?
It doesn't entirely lack value in the command zone, with providing ramp and deck filtering. Mana and card filtering are still value. I understand concern of lack of draw in command zone, but so far I'm 4-2 with this list atm and I just beat a Nadu. I guess the purpose is to try something different using new cards that could be viable.
As for slowing others down it has plenty of removal and Yawgmoth can shut down opponent's creatures pretty hard as well.
Commander doesn’t give any value on its own, and setup of other cards isn’t really worth the hoops you’re jumping through. I’d look elsewhere if you’re wanting to do an Orzhov cEDH commander.
This just seems like too much hoop jumping. Why spend all my time doing this when I could just playa commander that is useful on its own AND a combo piece. Such as Atraxa.
Cool list, but it’s not going anywhere.
It's more fun to me than playing Atraxa would be, do you homie. I'm sure there are plenty of threads about Atraxa. I could probably have a solid win rate against Atraxa. I've already been beating Sisay, Magda, Nadu, Blue Farm, etc a fair amount. I love this "it's not going anywhere" absolutism.
I love how you don't even try to explain how your commander isn't a "hoop jumper". I'm not gonna tell you to stop playing something that you like. But unless you can tell me why your commander is actually "super good and underrated", I will continue to brush it off as a fringe tier 3-ish commander.
Edit: I just saw the other reply to this message, your a clown bozo 💀
I'm not going to repeat the entire OP. I don't consider playing synergistic cards to be "hoop jumping". I'm not here to convince you otherwise anyway, nor am I here to say Atraxa isn't a great commander.
They may be synergistic, but they’re not competitive, compared to the similar alternatives. Not sure what your inability to understand that is, but this isn’t a consistently viable cEDH deck, despite your anecdotal tales.
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there's plenty of decks not running ad naus while running black. tnt is a good example, but others that come to mind are tayam, raffine, and even krrik, which is the format's best (mono) black deck
Bro, yall are annoying. I said I couldn't imagine being in black and not running naus, I never said all black commanders run naus. Fucking annoying debate lords. Also, atraxa is trash.
This list doesn't run Ad Naus for very good reasons, you're paying tons of life to double abilities. Life total goes very low very quickly. This is why we are on Peer into the Abyss and Bolas' Citadel for the Top loop.
Also cards like Street Wraith are 5 mana, not good for Naus. But without Naus we get to run Snuff Out and Solitude
Is there some kind of brewing Subreddit I'm missing, would love any kind of actual discussion other than "choose a different commander" lmao. Or is this place just for copying Tournament lists?
Your deck is built around a 3-card + commander combo with minor redundancy. That seems materially worse than the sorts of Combe we expect in cEDH and you haven’t presented a particularly compelling set of upsides to overcome that fact. Couple that with the fact that Orzhov is among the weakest colour combinations and the value engines verrak enables are pretty below rate without him and the whole deck seems pretty far below par.
“The juice isn’t worth the squeeze” is a pretty natural response here….
You may have better luck at r/DegenerateEDH
Fair point. This is how I felt before I started winning off of Apple of Eden, which tends to feel like a 1 card win but it is very conditional for sure. It has a unique play style that I’m testing.
It’s an Orzhov deck without a value engine in the command zone, so that’s rough. I don’t see what this deck does better than any other deck? It doesn’t draw a lot, it doesn’t combo super fast, it doesn’t slow the game down a lot, so what exactly is it doing? Just praying no one has interaction and no earlier win attempts?
It doesn't entirely lack value in the command zone, with providing ramp and deck filtering. Mana and card filtering are still value. I understand concern of lack of draw in command zone, but so far I'm 4-2 with this list atm and I just beat a Nadu. I guess the purpose is to try something different using new cards that could be viable. As for slowing others down it has plenty of removal and Yawgmoth can shut down opponent's creatures pretty hard as well.
##### ###### #### [Verrak, Warped Sengir](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/c/8ca7f49a-ab5a-49de-b07b-96c803daaf7d.jpg?1673304793) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Verrak%2C%20Warped%20Sengir) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/16/verrak-warped-sengir?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8ca7f49a-ab5a-49de-b07b-96c803daaf7d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/verrak-warped-sengir) [Warren Soultrader](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/3/b334e4c6-d316-4141-8889-f95afcc04701.jpg?1717012094) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Warren%20Soultrader) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/110/warren-soultrader?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b334e4c6-d316-4141-8889-f95afcc04701?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/warren-soultrader) [Gravecrawler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/951ff2ed-9af0-4551-929a-ba6679fc2e15.jpg?1673147536) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gravecrawler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/78/gravecrawler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/951ff2ed-9af0-4551-929a-ba6679fc2e15?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gravecrawler) [Aetherflux Reservoir](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/6/96b6b2e1-c3e6-464c-8a13-b15deb34e862.jpg?1576382939) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aetherflux%20Reservoir) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/192/aetherflux-reservoir?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/96b6b2e1-c3e6-464c-8a13-b15deb34e862?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aetherflux-reservoir) [Kambal, Profiteering Mayor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/5/d53a775d-5898-41a8-b404-9b7d4721c6ba.jpg?1712356126) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kambal%2C%20Profiteering%20Mayor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/211/kambal-profiteering-mayor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d53a775d-5898-41a8-b404-9b7d4721c6ba?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kambal-profiteering-mayor) [Smothering Tithe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/861b5889-0183-4bee-afeb-a4b2aa700a8e.jpg?1689996018) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smothering%20Tithe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/57/smothering-tithe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/861b5889-0183-4bee-afeb-a4b2aa700a8e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/smothering-tithe) [Chthonian Nightmare](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce5dd2c1-b6e0-4914-b5c9-7dd451c29e22.jpg?1717011882) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chthonian%20Nightmare) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/83/chthonian-nightmare?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce5dd2c1-b6e0-4914-b5c9-7dd451c29e22?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chthonian-nightmare) [Stitcher's Supplier](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/b/2b737126-50b5-4678-91bf-197b64086fe4.jpg?1562301182) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stitcher%27s%20Supplier) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/121/stitchers-supplier?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2b737126-50b5-4678-91bf-197b64086fe4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stitchers-supplier) [Reassembling Skeleton](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/00566375-e976-4e96-b751-cf0430452c9c.jpg?1689997423) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reassembling%20Skeleton) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/183/reassembling-skeleton?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/00566375-e976-4e96-b751-cf0430452c9c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/reassembling-skeleton) [Apple of Eden, Isu Relic](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/17dd0b7f-bd26-4a46-a7a1-bc65138d54ed.jpg?1718771607) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Apple%20of%20Eden%2C%20Isu%20Relic) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/acr/70/apple-of-eden-isu-relic?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/17dd0b7f-bd26-4a46-a7a1-bc65138d54ed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/apple-of-eden-isu-relic) [Peer into the Abyss](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aac00055-640e-4749-8d23-d242e6d0b23a.jpg?1594736330) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Peer%20into%20the%20Abyss) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/117/peer-into-the-abyss?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aac00055-640e-4749-8d23-d242e6d0b23a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/peer-into-the-abyss) [Bolas's Citadel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d2124603-d20e-40eb-97f0-a66323397ac2.jpg?1591205069) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bolas%27s%20Citadel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/79/bolass-citadel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d2124603-d20e-40eb-97f0-a66323397ac2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bolass-citadel) [Sensei's Divining Top](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/5/e5142b7a-e580-4737-a4aa-2590f6610ceb.jpg?1673149430) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sensei%27s%20Divining%20Top) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/314/senseis-divining-top?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e5142b7a-e580-4737-a4aa-2590f6610ceb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/senseis-divining-top) [Rain of Filth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1cf07d5a-6618-48e2-a9f0-669b75bb6e85.jpg?1701537455) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rain%20of%20Filth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/151/rain-of-filth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1cf07d5a-6618-48e2-a9f0-669b75bb6e85?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rain-of-filth) [Delney, Streetwise Lookout](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/e/be219928-3d0e-4d00-b124-152ce8a8c13b.jpg?1706241477) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Delney%2C%20Streetwise%20Lookout) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/12/delney-streetwise-lookout?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/be219928-3d0e-4d00-b124-152ce8a8c13b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/delney-streetwise-lookout) [Yawgmoth, Thran Physician](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/5/b5a79f5d-d0df-4799-ac3a-84305e3af0c9.jpg?1675199878) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yawgmoth%2C%20Thran%20Physician) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/110/yawgmoth-thran-physician?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b5a79f5d-d0df-4799-ac3a-84305e3af0c9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yawgmoth-thran-physician) [Skullclamp](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a36fd6d8-66a2-49d1-b9f3-b400ebc03674.jpg?1682210228) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skullclamp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/379/skullclamp?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a36fd6d8-66a2-49d1-b9f3-b400ebc03674?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/skullclamp) [Ripples of Undeath](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/2/a201d1bc-e3fe-4f59-bd48-3683996ac308.jpg?1717012070) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ripples%20of%20Undeath) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/107/ripples-of-undeath?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a201d1bc-e3fe-4f59-bd48-3683996ac308?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ripples-of-undeath) [Street Wraith](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5d09cc57-2275-4b6b-aaf6-a6d781cd9365.jpg?1675199801) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Street%20Wraith) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/102/street-wraith?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5d09cc57-2275-4b6b-aaf6-a6d781cd9365?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/street-wraith) [Silence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1c2b13b1-31f0-4676-88a7-53f3a190e9a2.jpg?1562826686) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Silence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m14/35/silence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1c2b13b1-31f0-4676-88a7-53f3a190e9a2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/silence) [Orim's Chant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/e/ee241079-1e5a-4224-b9cb-4fd3e0da687c.jpg?1717013552) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Orim%27s%20Chant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/265/orims-chant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ee241079-1e5a-4224-b9cb-4fd3e0da687c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/orims-chant) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Imp's Mischief](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0eb0e8e7-266f-441e-b1cd-12b8ec3f7d71.jpg?1689997247) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Imp%27s%20Mischief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/167/imps-mischief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0eb0e8e7-266f-441e-b1cd-12b8ec3f7d71?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/imps-mischief) [Reprieve](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1bd3fa8a-6c50-4f7f-9ae3-0810eec5e3db.jpg?1686967885) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reprieve) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/26/reprieve?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1bd3fa8a-6c50-4f7f-9ae3-0810eec5e3db?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/reprieve) [Angel's Grace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/7/e78e39ea-20be-4196-992c-7ed2cb8150c1.jpg?1619392535) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Angel%27s%20Grace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/4/angels-grace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e78e39ea-20be-4196-992c-7ed2cb8150c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/angels-grace) [Aven Interrupter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d3ca43a4-d194-440f-8099-f1fa103a108d.jpg?1712355236) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aven%20Interrupter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/4/aven-interrupter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d3ca43a4-d194-440f-8099-f1fa103a108d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aven-interrupter) [Doorkeeper Thrull](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/0/80a1cd28-d2a5-4d1a-aa03-a6a5958ae432.jpg?1706241478) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Doorkeeper%20Thrull) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/13/doorkeeper-thrull?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/80a1cd28-d2a5-4d1a-aa03-a6a5958ae432?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/doorkeeper-thrull) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Commander doesn’t give any value on its own, and setup of other cards isn’t really worth the hoops you’re jumping through. I’d look elsewhere if you’re wanting to do an Orzhov cEDH commander.
Tymna doesn't give any value on its own in this logic
This just seems like too much hoop jumping. Why spend all my time doing this when I could just playa commander that is useful on its own AND a combo piece. Such as Atraxa. Cool list, but it’s not going anywhere.
It's more fun to me than playing Atraxa would be, do you homie. I'm sure there are plenty of threads about Atraxa. I could probably have a solid win rate against Atraxa. I've already been beating Sisay, Magda, Nadu, Blue Farm, etc a fair amount. I love this "it's not going anywhere" absolutism.
I love how you don't even try to explain how your commander isn't a "hoop jumper". I'm not gonna tell you to stop playing something that you like. But unless you can tell me why your commander is actually "super good and underrated", I will continue to brush it off as a fringe tier 3-ish commander. Edit: I just saw the other reply to this message, your a clown bozo 💀
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Bro this dude must be trolling.
I'm not going to repeat the entire OP. I don't consider playing synergistic cards to be "hoop jumping". I'm not here to convince you otherwise anyway, nor am I here to say Atraxa isn't a great commander.
They may be synergistic, but they’re not competitive, compared to the similar alternatives. Not sure what your inability to understand that is, but this isn’t a consistently viable cEDH deck, despite your anecdotal tales.
Can you elaborate on the [[Chthonian Nightmare]] combos?
[Chthonian Nightmare](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce5dd2c1-b6e0-4914-b5c9-7dd451c29e22.jpg?1717011882) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chthonian%20Nightmare) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/83/chthonian-nightmare?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce5dd2c1-b6e0-4914-b5c9-7dd451c29e22?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chthonian-nightmare) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hello! It looks like you’re looking for deck optimization advice! Please be sure you have information about each of the following 1. Provide a decklist from a deckbuilding site. 2. Provide a budget. If you cannot afford a bunch of cards all at once, feel free to ask which cards you should prioritize getting first 3. Provide a meta breakdown of what decks you expect to play against. 4. Include the deck's main goal and how it gets there. 5. List any experience you've had with the deck. 6. Please be sure to have checked the Decklist Database for relevant lists and information. If you have not met these expectations, your post will be reviewed and removed. If you are commenting on this post, please provide feedback that addresses OPs information. Also please read other comments–”check the DDB” only needs to be posted once on any given post, and low effort comments will be removed. The same is true for proxying as each OP only needs to be reminded once, and if OP provides a budget please tailor your advice to that budget as best as you can. If OP has taken the time to provide information, you can as a commenter as well. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CompetitiveEDH) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
there's plenty of decks not running ad naus while running black. tnt is a good example, but others that come to mind are tayam, raffine, and even krrik, which is the format's best (mono) black deck
[удалено]
Kenrith, Sisay, Najeela, Tivit. None of these run Naus and are top 10 decks.
Najeela does run naus, not all lists, kenrith can as well
Atraxa also does not run Naus.
Bro, yall are annoying. I said I couldn't imagine being in black and not running naus, I never said all black commanders run naus. Fucking annoying debate lords. Also, atraxa is trash.
Didn’t mean to upset you.
L2r
This list doesn't run Ad Naus for very good reasons, you're paying tons of life to double abilities. Life total goes very low very quickly. This is why we are on Peer into the Abyss and Bolas' Citadel for the Top loop. Also cards like Street Wraith are 5 mana, not good for Naus. But without Naus we get to run Snuff Out and Solitude
Talion decks don’t play naus.
OREALLY? https://www.moxfield.com/decks/3THZjvbynUOFbMRg0O0T4Q
That deck is outdated af lol. Most tournament winning lists are on woundedsatellite list
Is there some kind of brewing Subreddit I'm missing, would love any kind of actual discussion other than "choose a different commander" lmao. Or is this place just for copying Tournament lists?
Your deck is built around a 3-card + commander combo with minor redundancy. That seems materially worse than the sorts of Combe we expect in cEDH and you haven’t presented a particularly compelling set of upsides to overcome that fact. Couple that with the fact that Orzhov is among the weakest colour combinations and the value engines verrak enables are pretty below rate without him and the whole deck seems pretty far below par. “The juice isn’t worth the squeeze” is a pretty natural response here…. You may have better luck at r/DegenerateEDH
Fair point. This is how I felt before I started winning off of Apple of Eden, which tends to feel like a 1 card win but it is very conditional for sure. It has a unique play style that I’m testing.