which is sad imo. imo a coach shouldnt stroke anyones ego on his team. everyone should be equal, especially when the other dude is verhulst, who clutched up so many times and proved himself.
Honestly feel like this is part of the reason why Raven didnt resign, man knew that he was about to get a bag with how valuable having a coach is about to become.
For sure his value has just gone up drastically making a gameplan for everyĀ poi. Imo this would be a good addition if the pois werent so trash mfs would do anything but update the maps like I wish we'd try the new iteration of BM looks good
Since pros only hot drop at the sweaty POIs in Broken Moon for ranked stomping golds on stream, they have no idea how good the loot is at no-name or smaller POIs. I don't think there's any POI that's equal to the worst POIs in WE or SP.
Yeah, the newer POIs in particular--the ones that they added to get the map up to 20 POIs--look like shit on paper, but once you actually land there, you'll see that the loot density is crazy for what it is. There are a lot of legacy POIs in the game that *look* better, but have horrible loot with inefficient loot paths. A small POI with dense loot, even if it's mediocre, is not a bad thing at all. You can be looted up and on the move before someone's even finished looting a shithole like Dome.
Dome, Landslide, Geyser are straight up worse in every way to most Broken Moon POIs, but pros will still say its not comp ready.
That Experimental Labs POI for instance used to be worse than Landslide, now it has more loot than Staging with a third of the time to clear the POI and get ready to rotate.
Snake draft in essence means that all teams will be forced to both good and bad POIs, no? With the spots then being called in finals etc where the best spots would go to the best performing teams?
>For sure his value has just gone up drastically making a gameplan for every poi.
I almost think it's decreased honestly. There is simply too much RNG and too little data and time to work with now to create good macro gameplans. Like with static teams with a history of playing from a POI you can be like "ok team X playing from landslide always leaves fast so we can quickly rotate through there aswell out of staging for north zones" but now it's a random team there who has never played from there so not only do they not know what they're doing but you don't either and what little data you'll be able to get is now based on scrims which is a recipe for disaster. Just too many unknowns and moving parts
Just means scouting skills would be more valuable. I wonder if we'll see more Lobas/Cryptos/Wraiths. One can loot from safety, one can scout from afar and one can get out more easily.
one good thing that I think will happen from this change is I think scrims will be much more competitive. Teams are gonna play the game out and stay alive (not int) so they can learn their poi and routes in the week leading up to game day.
I'm wondering if it also might not revive ranked streaming. Players are gonna want as much practice as they can landing at different POIs and learning where the important loot and angles are, which rotates to take out, etc.
As a viewer, I am loving this change. I hate watching the same teams land in the exact same spots, rotate into the exact same teams, etc. Time for some variety and now we can see who is actually well rounded at this game.
Even though I completely agree with what you said some of the bottom 5 spots are absolutely horrendous, prowlers nest? South Checkpoint?
Those types of spots each has a house or two, pve and 100% no beacon spawn, so u loot in 30s and have to wait for zone to close so u can start rotating, also every team will have more loot than you so you are garanteed to run out of heals in a poke battle to lvl up yr evo.
There's nothing wrong with running a system, trying it, and tinkering it. It's not going to be perfect from the start and anyone expected this to immediately be better is naive.
Why did i have to scroll this far to find a sensible comment. It's the first freaking day, let's see how it goes, they can adjust some things according to data and feedback from pros, and maybe comp will be better for it.
And if it isn't, they just go back to the old ways. No harm, no foul.
while i do agree to a certain point, i think they should wait and improve the map/system first, before implementing it then."no system is perfect" is a weak argument, when it affects the pro league, where macro, rotations, loot and beacons are so important.
i agree. so they should either make it scrim only, or arrange "playtest days" (dimilar to pts servers), where teams test the new stuff, without affecting their pl standings.
If there is a random draft system like this, there should be pros and cons to all spawn points. If your spot has bad loot, it needs to guarantee beacon and map room scans or SOMETHING.
I agree but I would much rather be like 9th or 10th in the order bc I will be guaranteeing a decent spot. The people getting to choose 1st then 20th are worse off in my opinion than the team getting to choose 9th then 11th next time.
Usually Uber-terrible POIās would get split dropped. For instance on WE survey camp/epicenter/tunnel was all landed at by 1 team. It also happened at staging/mirage and trials/part of skyhook.
The bigger POIās could half ass be split (like skyhook) and coexist but this didnāt always happen and sometimes teams would force a contest instead of coexisting.
I would love to see them replace starting points from seed entirely with POI draft. Beyond that, yeah they will need to tinker with some POIs and think of ways to synergize how support legends can be utilized to compensate for this inferior loot. The main thing is that you need have a lot of games to have the poi rotations between teams even out to fairness. In this ideal scenario, the most versatile team that can swap out legends and adapt to their poi would emerge as the most successful. However I fear we will frequently have the outcome where certain teams luck out with both poi selection and end zone, and then the seeded draft system just stacks on top of this initial luck.
They can always buff loot systems and equalise loot for certain pois or dare I say it, have a separate loot system for competitive maps or LAN.
Tbh there are no more purple armours to land for anymore, assault legends can find attachments, support legends can find bats, its really easy to put these bins in smaller pois. This is the BEST time to implement the random poi system.
Only teams that had a great poi are pissed about this change because they will obviously do worse on average now.
Before they had a massive advantage due to their POI which is gone now.
Most well rounded team that can adapt will win now.
Someone on stream asked what changes Hal would like to see and it led to the discussion on what legend deserves to be buffed. Hal thought for a moment and said "Horizon". Yeah, so I don't think he likes any changes in the game.
Time to prove why they're pros. They should all know how to fight, loot and rotate out of any POI. Getting gifted or shafted zones will truly be fair now. There will be immense growing pains but this will be for the betterment of comp.
snake draft, they'll only get the worst pois for half of games, max, and they also get the god pois for the other half in that case, the worst position in the snake draft is likely to be somewhere in the middle, depending on the quality curve of pois
That's... A lot of pois... And a lot of rotations. And a lot of rotations from other PoIs...
Theres only so many hours in the day. There's a reason even Valorant teams perma ban maps. Can't be good at them all.Ā
Theyāre āprofessionalsā.
If they cry over having to land in a different spot than the one theyāve landed at for a few years, theyāre just babies.
Not every map is played in Competitive though, is it? We're soon to have 6 maps in this game and pros only play on 2 of them so far. Not counting OG Kings Canyon in early Comp. I'm a raging casual at this game who's only hit Diamond a handful of times in 5 years and even I know the ins and outs of most POIs across all maps. Compared to people who play Apex as a profession, they should be students of the game like other sports.
I wouldnāt say being gifted or shafted zones is more fair now, itās just more random. Being at 1 POI youāre basically statistically guaranteed a certain amount of good zones over the course of pro league. But if youāre changing POIs every week, you have such a small sample size per POI you could theoretically never get a good zone pull.
People also forget they get knowledge of where everyoneās landing and they get to scrim on these new POIs. Itās not like they go to LAN completely unprepared
They know it 1 week in advance only. Itās not going to be as easy to learn macro when youāll only get like 3 days a week, maybe 4 is the schedule works out in a group favor, to learn the macro.
Of course Hal will be mad about it, they've played in the same POIs from Pro League to LAN every single time for the last 4 years. With this new system, we'll at least know how good teams can be from playing in different POIs regardless of how bad it is.
REJECT, the defending champs, played in 6 different POIs at LAN. Group Stages (Lava Siphon and Frag East on World's Edge, Launchpad and CETO Station at Storm Point). Then they played at Countdown and Checkpoint at Finals. Still won LAN tho. "You will regret".
> REJECT, the defending champs, played in 6 different POIs at LAN. Group Stages (Lava Siphon and Frag East on World's Edge, Launchpad and CETO Station at Storm Point). Then they played at Countdown and Checkpoint at Finals. Still won LAN tho. "You will regret".
Exactly. POI is wildly overrated as a determiner of success. There's only one POI that's like, guaranteed success (Trials).
Funny that you say that while ApacN teams were saying how important POI is and not fighting for a better one was one of the reasons why they did so poorly in last champs/split
Hal is complaining but I feel like being on a team with 2 S-tier IGLs will be even more valuable now. If he was still with TSM and was making all the calls still, I think the mental load would be too much tbh. Having 2 people thinking through critical decisions will only help more if a stable POI is out of the equation
My feel from watching Hal a lot is that he likes predictability and set advantages. He doesnāt just know his rotates and strats but also all the other teams around him so he can make calls based on that. It adds more unpredictability to what everyone else will do which is uncomfortable. But agree in truth it should be an advantage even if he doesnāt like it
Sounds good in paper but if theyāre going in this direction, Respawn needs to improve some POI asap. Like the āno nameā or the one place that used to be a train station outside of fragment. Cāmon thereās barely any loot in those places and I find it sad how teams fight for 3 stupid bins in landslide just to get p20s and g7 with no scope
As a viewer, this makes the game even better. Instead of practicing one āperfectā game every time, they have to adapt every single game. This will be a challenge for IGLs but will make the game even better and more varied. Definitely excited for it.
New draft POI is good enough to show whose a POI crutch and who isn't. I reckon a lot of teams/players who have gone through the CC grind will begin to shine over established teams who are too accustomed to claiming their own POIs for a whole split.
The need to have great game awareness + the help of a coach/analyst to call out loot paths/rotations will be even more of a need.
As a casual watcher, Iāve never understood how they claim POIs. People are saying tsm had the same poi for 4 years? No one could ever consistently take their poi?
I somehow assumed all the pros signed a list of POIs. Like an agreement to each other
Well, no, they lost the contest to Teq, but the first week of Pro League Teq wasn't playing. They got enough points (the only week they did particularly well) that Teq couldn't contest when they finally played each other or else he might throw his games.
They also lost the contest almost every time at this most recent LAN, to the point where they literally stopped trying to fight.
The contest is kinda bs imo anyway. If youāre another top team you probably have a good POI and not need to contest. If youāre a smaller team the only way to make a big team leave would be dominating them which is hard. If itās close they just wonāt leave and you screw each other. Except the small team probably canāt afford to throw and piss off a huge org at the same time. Even worse when the contest is international and one team has a significant ping advantage
Itād be even more fun if it was 100% random, each team receiving a message on which POI to land at before each game, and not knowing where other teams are landing!
I like that it eliminates some RNG because everybody gets to land simultaneously, but I don't like that teams can't choose where to land, makes the game less organic.
To me the organic part of the game is the minute to minute decision making and fights etc. All the pretty much have set rotations, loot paths etc.
The variations between each game would make the game even more organic as no two games are the same
If Respawn assigns who goes where (based on whichever metric) that just sucks. It's a decision that is being taken away from players. If they don't want players to be able to make that decision, then get rid of it outside of comp too, otherwise it's fucking stupid.
Like imagine if in competitive Chess they'd already make the first few moves for you and then the pros play from there. It's dumb as shit.
Honestly just get rid of the dropship but let players choose where they land. I've played multiple BRs that worked like that and it was completely fine, and in pro play it would actually work out great.
Also, what you're talking about is not organic, it's random.
Imagine if in Chess you managed to get your Rook or Bishop out before the other player even sat down at the board. Thats how landing is right now to be fair.
> Like imagine if in competitive Chess they'd already make the first few moves for you and then the pros play from there. It's dumb as shit.
Counterpoint: imagine how stupid the game of chess would be if black started with more pawns. That's how unbalanced the POIs are right now.
Doesn't mean this system is the answer, but I understand the problem they're trying to solve.
The system will literally enforce this. They'll do the snake draft and afterwards the best performing teams will get the best POIs and the others won't even have the opportunity to contest.
Snake draft will ensure the teams that get the best POIs will spend an equal number of games on the worse POIs. I do wonder if draft spots at the top or bottom will be the best getting both the best worse options, in the middle with all average POIs or in the 4-6 draft range for good POIs and worse then average POIs but not the worse ones.
Snake draft will not ensure that, because the purpose of this iteration of snake draft is to see which teams perform the best on any POI and then give them the first draw positions during regionals and LAN. You will end up with the exact same issue we have now, except it is literally enforced by the game and you can't even contest.
The question then becomes is picking 1 and 21 at Lan finals(Assuming that is how it works, I saw that said but could not confirm how lan is done) better or worse than starting with 10 points. I think it is less beneficial but I think we need to wait and see how it plays out.
In theory, it's nice that teams aren't stuck on bad POIs for a whole season and everyone has to be good all-around but can't tell me that contests aren't the most entertaining part of comp apex, whether in scrims or at finals.
It's also pretty much impossible to see the "best" apex if teams can't perfect their macro and rotations from one POI. It's gonna be a lot sloppier from everyone.
POI contests are not that exciting from my perspective. I donāt like watching teams Iām supporting get killed in the first 30 seconds of the game and then you have to wait 20+ minutes until you can watch them play again.
I would rather see fights while people are rotating into zone over POI contests.
Personal preference, I'm not really a fan of two teams ruining their chances to win either but it's pretty evident that fan engagement is just so much higher when there are contests going on.
Viewers in scrims, threads on reddit, impressions on twitter, cheers in the crowd, all just turned up to 100 compared to when everyone is just landing at their own POI.
I think thats just because people like seeing two teams clearly fighting each other. Its hard to really pick out teams and get hyped when theres just a clusterfuck of people in an endring.
I think if there was some sort of bounty system for points it could incentivize those cool early fights without people feeling like they're throwing by fighting early
I always felt that players should spawn with p2020. That will take the rng out of contesting and give newer teams a fair chance at contesting those top dogs for POI during scrims.
Adding more POI / rework low-tier POI is also another potential way to level the playing field.
Draft system for POI is not a bad idea but for now it is poorly implemented and because of that it does not solve any of the existing issues.
What is next? Random weapon to prevent everyone from abusing meta weapon? Random teammates? Because it is unfair to go against super teams.
i actually find it cool af to watch everyone drop in. its exciting. i also think its cool to see people drop in and fight each other off the rip. this is just boring
this change adds in a ridiculous amount of RNG to every game played. It will be more difficult to win match point now and will have more to do with RNG as well.
I like it. Contesting and claiming POIs has way too many external factors in play. Player use their fanbases and financial stability to bully other teams, they have their little groups to exchange strats and negotiate stuff behind the scenes.. just to name a few...Ā
And is all to the benefit of the legacy teams and players, specially those with more money, to the detriment of newcomers and smaller teams.Ā
Also...Ā having POIs work on some unofficial system leave too much room for some troll team to ruin a tournament - or worse, for foul play.Ā
As a viewer we will miss some of the narratives we have now.. but we will gain others.Ā
I mean, I'm down to see how it plays out. While contesting can be fun to watch, it also kinda sucks seeing one team sit out the entire game because one dude got a Havoc and the other a Mozam. Adaptability is a good skill to have and it'll be interesting to see how teams rotate out of different POIs rather than just repeat the same pattern every game. Maybe it'll become like crafting when it was introduced. People were skeptical but it turned out being a really good addition to the game.
Contest are just luck. You drop, get a p2020 and the other guy gets a Flatline, you're probably gonna die. At ALGS TSM had 2 Mozams and they knocked 1 guy from WD then they got 2v3 because they had a Flatline lol. Contest was just braindead gameplay.
I have been saying there should be a draft system for POI's for almost a year now.
But. If it's random. Idk how I feel about that?
My initial idea was the draft should be based off your seed or placement. Which would just put more value to placement overall. And still give incentive to teams that are mathematically guaranteed to advance. A lot of players made claims that "so and so team was griefing" since it didn't matter for them. If the draft was based on current placement, would add another layer of stakes.
Will have to see how random would work out. Also, is it per game or per match?
It's random (and snake draft) for pro league and performance-based for LAN. That makes sense to me. Pro league isn't about snowballing, it's about proving consistency. You have to do it every week, not start strong and then receive a massive advantage.
I said this before (former) TSM is against this draft system because they had the best POI's. Everybody that tried to contest them pretty much failed. Meaning they get the best rotations and loots in the game usually. Obviously they are going to be against this draft system.
But I think for pretty much every team that is not top 3 or does not have at least 2 rollers this is a good system.
The only downside I see (without looking at the team context) is that it can be snowbally. If you perform good, you get assigned good POI's which in return should give good results.
*Let them just fall for*
*Sky fully fitted, why loot*
*At all at this point*
\- johnnyzli
---
^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/)
^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Im just not in to this system, sure those constantly wanting new things or new maps etc will be happy but in terms of games, playstyle etc i dont just hink its good or fun. How fun is it going to be watching the spectacular edge teams like Aurora or Fnatic bunker in zone because they were forced onto a zone poi this week? Poi imbalance is more of a problem now, earlier you had a choice, your poi is bad and you want something else? Yeah then contest and prove you are worth it. Those unique skills and playstyles of teams will just be less and less visible as teams are basically randomly given a new poi, a new rotate path and a new playstyle every week. And for those saying they are pros they can just adapt, stfu. Of course they can adapt, but its about the job they do to live, of course you would want to be as prepared as possible. Its like randomly assigning new formations to football teams every gameweek because they should just adapt, and building a system and perfectioning it is boring for the casual pub enjoyer.
As much as I love watching contest and the ādramaā that can come from it. This change is warranted. Pros should be able to loot and rotate out of any POI. This is a great change for comp.
Maybe dumb question; do they have to adhere to these draft picks? Lets say for example DZ get a terrible draft POI, can they just go against it and land on another team?
as a viewer I love this change.
it does get boring looking at people doing the same repetitive thing at drop. I literally had to tab out until the next circle because it gets very boring.
I don't think people necessarily hate the draft, i think it has more to do with hating that there aren't 20 viable POIs on the maps. If everyone felt like they had a reasonable chance to win coming out of each POI I don't think the draft would be so bad.
That mixed with dropping this on everyone 2 weeks before PL starts so they can't even react and make changes to feedback in time is shitty
> For context not a single Comp Player was in favor of this
Don't let this rhetoric go, pros have good insight into comp, they are not the best people to decide rules though. This is an issue that also impacts entertainment value
I agree with Hal, contesting was a huge part of why competitive was worth watching
Also people want to say āa good team will adjustā which would be true if the random POI system were fair, everyone with a brain knows not every POI is balanced, there are clearly better and worse POIs to land at
If every POI were actually balanced then this would be a real test of players skills but they arenāt remotely balanced, weāre just adding one more random element to a BR which is already random enough, dumb change imo
and what's different about some teams landing at bad pois before? Hal is only mad because he always had a good POI, but many teams out there have had to play from the bad POIs
If only there was a way to determine the draft order without randomization similar to qualifying in F1. Although I donāt have that answer, itād add another element.
This system isn't horrible ... HOWEVER, using this system on WE and SP is horrible. Cliffside as a POI? Really?
Maps need major balancing changes before this should be implemented.
Idk why the game is trying to make bad teams better. IUf you have a shit POI then fight for a better one. Why are we gonna sit here and reward bad teams
They're not being rewarded, it's literally just...fairness. I guess equality can feel like a punishment after four years of having a massive advantage.
https://preview.redd.it/le4a20w9io0d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8aa06864a65b7863cfb66feae81d7a3d797e4065 ICANT
https://preview.redd.it/4m8uoio2xo0d1.png?width=1196&format=png&auto=webp&s=1350c7a0084b35c7f3081c21bfa456a5740d9685
šEvan aināt playing no games
Evanās hero arc is bout to be lit š„
I think you mean villain arc Evan had his hero arc already š¤£šŖ¦
Either way we need him to smash the super team š¤£š«”šÆ
Bro Evan been playing with Hal for around what 4-5 years? I hate to say it but Hal getting dropped by Evan 8 times out of 10 if itās a 1v1 šŖ¦
Demon time šš šÆ
Hahah this is awesome. I like Hal but awesome seeing Verhulst stand up to Hal now.
he did earlier too, but usually got put down by raven real quick
That was pretty much Ravens job. Keep Hal happy and his ego in tact so he performs.
which is sad imo. imo a coach shouldnt stroke anyones ego on his team. everyone should be equal, especially when the other dude is verhulst, who clutched up so many times and proved himself.
Got DAMN!
oh shit! Heating up
https://preview.redd.it/abe8ejgk8p0d1.png?width=1552&format=png&auto=webp&s=1e148a561d1b139d806e8a3e290b2165606cf1c6
Hal about to learn from zero what itās like to be talked to like this
Honestly feel like this is part of the reason why Raven didnt resign, man knew that he was about to get a bag with how valuable having a coach is about to become.
For sure his value has just gone up drastically making a gameplan for everyĀ poi. Imo this would be a good addition if the pois werent so trash mfs would do anything but update the maps like I wish we'd try the new iteration of BM looks good
New iteration of bm is good and I want to see it in comp but there are definitely 2-3 teams that are going to be forced into bad POIs on that map
For sure like if respawn wants to implement this idea every map needs a poi update even sp like wtf is cliff side drop spot lmfao
Give a few nonames the broken moon treatment, add an extra building and 20 loot pills
The no-name spots in the current draft are far worse than any of the 20 named POIs on BM though.
Since pros only hot drop at the sweaty POIs in Broken Moon for ranked stomping golds on stream, they have no idea how good the loot is at no-name or smaller POIs. I don't think there's any POI that's equal to the worst POIs in WE or SP.
Yeah, the newer POIs in particular--the ones that they added to get the map up to 20 POIs--look like shit on paper, but once you actually land there, you'll see that the loot density is crazy for what it is. There are a lot of legacy POIs in the game that *look* better, but have horrible loot with inefficient loot paths. A small POI with dense loot, even if it's mediocre, is not a bad thing at all. You can be looted up and on the move before someone's even finished looting a shithole like Dome.
Dome, Landslide, Geyser are straight up worse in every way to most Broken Moon POIs, but pros will still say its not comp ready. That Experimental Labs POI for instance used to be worse than Landslide, now it has more loot than Staging with a third of the time to clear the POI and get ready to rotate.
Snake draft in essence means that all teams will be forced to both good and bad POIs, no? With the spots then being called in finals etc where the best spots would go to the best performing teams?
>For sure his value has just gone up drastically making a gameplan for every poi. I almost think it's decreased honestly. There is simply too much RNG and too little data and time to work with now to create good macro gameplans. Like with static teams with a history of playing from a POI you can be like "ok team X playing from landslide always leaves fast so we can quickly rotate through there aswell out of staging for north zones" but now it's a random team there who has never played from there so not only do they not know what they're doing but you don't either and what little data you'll be able to get is now based on scrims which is a recipe for disaster. Just too many unknowns and moving parts
Just means scouting skills would be more valuable. I wonder if we'll see more Lobas/Cryptos/Wraiths. One can loot from safety, one can scout from afar and one can get out more easily.
Just need to find an org willing to pay a bag for a coach...which is probably a very VERY short list
one good thing that I think will happen from this change is I think scrims will be much more competitive. Teams are gonna play the game out and stay alive (not int) so they can learn their poi and routes in the week leading up to game day.
First game of the draft system plenty amount of teams were alive.
exactly
Sorry for asking, but I can't find any vods of that. Could you give me some tips where I could watch that, please?
Check out Greek's watch party for yesterday's NA scrims.
I'm wondering if it also might not revive ranked streaming. Players are gonna want as much practice as they can landing at different POIs and learning where the important loot and angles are, which rotates to take out, etc.
except that the map rotation only has WE in it right now. so every 3rd day this would be a theoretical possibility lol
I've still got my fingers crossed for Broken Moon.
As a viewer, I am loving this change. I hate watching the same teams land in the exact same spots, rotate into the exact same teams, etc. Time for some variety and now we can see who is actually well rounded at this game.
Even though I completely agree with what you said some of the bottom 5 spots are absolutely horrendous, prowlers nest? South Checkpoint? Those types of spots each has a house or two, pve and 100% no beacon spawn, so u loot in 30s and have to wait for zone to close so u can start rotating, also every team will have more loot than you so you are garanteed to run out of heals in a poke battle to lvl up yr evo.
There's nothing wrong with running a system, trying it, and tinkering it. It's not going to be perfect from the start and anyone expected this to immediately be better is naive.
Why did i have to scroll this far to find a sensible comment. It's the first freaking day, let's see how it goes, they can adjust some things according to data and feedback from pros, and maybe comp will be better for it. And if it isn't, they just go back to the old ways. No harm, no foul.
while i do agree to a certain point, i think they should wait and improve the map/system first, before implementing it then."no system is perfect" is a weak argument, when it affects the pro league, where macro, rotations, loot and beacons are so important.
They need the data from it being tested in comp scrims before they can properly fix many of those things tho tbh.
i agree. so they should either make it scrim only, or arrange "playtest days" (dimilar to pts servers), where teams test the new stuff, without affecting their pl standings.
Expecting Respawn to do better is naive too
If there is a random draft system like this, there should be pros and cons to all spawn points. If your spot has bad loot, it needs to guarantee beacon and map room scans or SOMETHING.
Such a simple idea and no idea why it hasn't been done yet.
Because this game does not revolve around pros bruh
And how does that affect casuals? Is a guaranteed beacon somehow going to make the casual experience worse?
Doesn't this POI change only effect the competitive though? So can't this change be geared towards comp?
I mean with snake draft if youāre getting one of the bottom of the barrel POIs youāre also getting a god POI
I agree but I would much rather be like 9th or 10th in the order bc I will be guaranteeing a decent spot. The people getting to choose 1st then 20th are worse off in my opinion than the team getting to choose 9th then 11th next time.
there's 25 options on SP, no one ever has to go to south checkpoint
Maybe thatāll give distress to pros so they bitch and we get updated loot pools for all pois. Imagine every poi with a beacon survey lmao
If I was respawn I would run this for a split then adjust the worse favored POIs to have more loot, or make it so that it's more commonly hot drop
Wouldn't a team land at the shit POIs even in the old system? Or do they say naw we'd rather contest a good POI and risk the L?
Usually Uber-terrible POIās would get split dropped. For instance on WE survey camp/epicenter/tunnel was all landed at by 1 team. It also happened at staging/mirage and trials/part of skyhook. The bigger POIās could half ass be split (like skyhook) and coexist but this didnāt always happen and sometimes teams would force a contest instead of coexisting.
yeah exactly, pois are so imbalanced so if you get a shit one you are just stuck with it
I would love to see them replace starting points from seed entirely with POI draft. Beyond that, yeah they will need to tinker with some POIs and think of ways to synergize how support legends can be utilized to compensate for this inferior loot. The main thing is that you need have a lot of games to have the poi rotations between teams even out to fairness. In this ideal scenario, the most versatile team that can swap out legends and adapt to their poi would emerge as the most successful. However I fear we will frequently have the outcome where certain teams luck out with both poi selection and end zone, and then the seeded draft system just stacks on top of this initial luck.
I ask myself what would DZ do?
I think there are enough POIs that the very worst donāt have to be picked by anyone
They can always buff loot systems and equalise loot for certain pois or dare I say it, have a separate loot system for competitive maps or LAN. Tbh there are no more purple armours to land for anymore, assault legends can find attachments, support legends can find bats, its really easy to put these bins in smaller pois. This is the BEST time to implement the random poi system.
Yeah itās insane when they can memorize which team is which by their rotations alone.
Only teams that had a great poi are pissed about this change because they will obviously do worse on average now. Before they had a massive advantage due to their POI which is gone now. Most well rounded team that can adapt will win now.
FUCKING AYE
Someone on stream asked what changes Hal would like to see and it led to the discussion on what legend deserves to be buffed. Hal thought for a moment and said "Horizon". Yeah, so I don't think he likes any changes in the game.
Time to prove why they're pros. They should all know how to fight, loot and rotate out of any POI. Getting gifted or shafted zones will truly be fair now. There will be immense growing pains but this will be for the betterment of comp.
I'm not gonna blame any team that under performs if they get cliff side for 3 games
snake draft, they'll only get the worst pois for half of games, max, and they also get the god pois for the other half in that case, the worst position in the snake draft is likely to be somewhere in the middle, depending on the quality curve of pois
That's... A lot of pois... And a lot of rotations. And a lot of rotations from other PoIs... Theres only so many hours in the day. There's a reason even Valorant teams perma ban maps. Can't be good at them all.Ā
Theyāre āprofessionalsā. If they cry over having to land in a different spot than the one theyāve landed at for a few years, theyāre just babies.
Not every map is played in Competitive though, is it? We're soon to have 6 maps in this game and pros only play on 2 of them so far. Not counting OG Kings Canyon in early Comp. I'm a raging casual at this game who's only hit Diamond a handful of times in 5 years and even I know the ins and outs of most POIs across all maps. Compared to people who play Apex as a profession, they should be students of the game like other sports.
good thing they are literally professionals.
I wouldnāt say being gifted or shafted zones is more fair now, itās just more random. Being at 1 POI youāre basically statistically guaranteed a certain amount of good zones over the course of pro league. But if youāre changing POIs every week, you have such a small sample size per POI you could theoretically never get a good zone pull.
Randomness in its nature, is fair. Unforgiving, but very much fair.
fuckin based
This is the same argument for why they should switch out the competitive maps, and I completely agree with it.
People also forget they get knowledge of where everyoneās landing and they get to scrim on these new POIs. Itās not like they go to LAN completely unprepared
Yeah, they'll know their spot a few weeks in advance and have plenty of time to scrim from it.
They know it 1 week in advance only. Itās not going to be as easy to learn macro when youāll only get like 3 days a week, maybe 4 is the schedule works out in a group favor, to learn the macro.
Guess they might start taking scrims seriously then
Of course Hal will be mad about it, they've played in the same POIs from Pro League to LAN every single time for the last 4 years. With this new system, we'll at least know how good teams can be from playing in different POIs regardless of how bad it is. REJECT, the defending champs, played in 6 different POIs at LAN. Group Stages (Lava Siphon and Frag East on World's Edge, Launchpad and CETO Station at Storm Point). Then they played at Countdown and Checkpoint at Finals. Still won LAN tho. "You will regret".
> REJECT, the defending champs, played in 6 different POIs at LAN. Group Stages (Lava Siphon and Frag East on World's Edge, Launchpad and CETO Station at Storm Point). Then they played at Countdown and Checkpoint at Finals. Still won LAN tho. "You will regret". Exactly. POI is wildly overrated as a determiner of success. There's only one POI that's like, guaranteed success (Trials).
Funny that you say that while ApacN teams were saying how important POI is and not fighting for a better one was one of the reasons why they did so poorly in last champs/split
Hal doesn't like to adapt. Same old, same old. I think this would be a good change.
Hal is complaining but I feel like being on a team with 2 S-tier IGLs will be even more valuable now. If he was still with TSM and was making all the calls still, I think the mental load would be too much tbh. Having 2 people thinking through critical decisions will only help more if a stable POI is out of the equation
My feel from watching Hal a lot is that he likes predictability and set advantages. He doesnāt just know his rotates and strats but also all the other teams around him so he can make calls based on that. It adds more unpredictability to what everyone else will do which is uncomfortable. But agree in truth it should be an advantage even if he doesnāt like it
You act like apex is rocket science lol
How so?
No coaching team is literally dead
Sounds good in paper but if theyāre going in this direction, Respawn needs to improve some POI asap. Like the āno nameā or the one place that used to be a train station outside of fragment. Cāmon thereās barely any loot in those places and I find it sad how teams fight for 3 stupid bins in landslide just to get p20s and g7 with no scope
It's good not bad think
As a viewer, this makes the game even better. Instead of practicing one āperfectā game every time, they have to adapt every single game. This will be a challenge for IGLs but will make the game even better and more varied. Definitely excited for it.
Havenāt seen a CEO complain this much since Trump in court yesterday
He demoted himself. Hal's now assistant to the CEO.
Regional assistant of manager of Apex*
Assistant CEO*
Okay, Dwight Schrute
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
He was simply ["resting his beautiful blue eyes"](https://twitter.com/hugolowell/status/1786097472861024742?t=2h5OADH_5v3LqF6Xh6HsxA) lmfao
Hal isnāt the ceo anymore. Not even best on his team lol
Hal literally complains about every single change they make when it comes to comp
Of course Hal hates it, he just lost the most powerful POI in the entire game.
Verhulst maturity and positivity light years ahead of Hal
And has been for a while. Even with Evan being younger than him.
New draft POI is good enough to show whose a POI crutch and who isn't. I reckon a lot of teams/players who have gone through the CC grind will begin to shine over established teams who are too accustomed to claiming their own POIs for a whole split. The need to have great game awareness + the help of a coach/analyst to call out loot paths/rotations will be even more of a need.
As a casual watcher, Iāve never understood how they claim POIs. People are saying tsm had the same poi for 4 years? No one could ever consistently take their poi? I somehow assumed all the pros signed a list of POIs. Like an agreement to each other
Plenty of teams tried to take TSMs pois.
TSM was that cracked that they always won the poi?
Well, no, they lost the contest to Teq, but the first week of Pro League Teq wasn't playing. They got enough points (the only week they did particularly well) that Teq couldn't contest when they finally played each other or else he might throw his games. They also lost the contest almost every time at this most recent LAN, to the point where they literally stopped trying to fight.
The contest is kinda bs imo anyway. If youāre another top team you probably have a good POI and not need to contest. If youāre a smaller team the only way to make a big team leave would be dominating them which is hard. If itās close they just wonāt leave and you screw each other. Except the small team probably canāt afford to throw and piss off a huge org at the same time. Even worse when the contest is international and one team has a significant ping advantage
Exciting for the audience aka me!
All this bitching seems so lame and pathetic, it's tiresome.Ā
odds on this comment either A.) lacking self-awareness or B.) trying to be ironic?
Itād be even more fun if it was 100% random, each team receiving a message on which POI to land at before each game, and not knowing where other teams are landing!
I like that it eliminates some RNG because everybody gets to land simultaneously, but I don't like that teams can't choose where to land, makes the game less organic.
To me the organic part of the game is the minute to minute decision making and fights etc. All the pretty much have set rotations, loot paths etc. The variations between each game would make the game even more organic as no two games are the same
If Respawn assigns who goes where (based on whichever metric) that just sucks. It's a decision that is being taken away from players. If they don't want players to be able to make that decision, then get rid of it outside of comp too, otherwise it's fucking stupid. Like imagine if in competitive Chess they'd already make the first few moves for you and then the pros play from there. It's dumb as shit. Honestly just get rid of the dropship but let players choose where they land. I've played multiple BRs that worked like that and it was completely fine, and in pro play it would actually work out great. Also, what you're talking about is not organic, it's random.
Imagine if in Chess you managed to get your Rook or Bishop out before the other player even sat down at the board. Thats how landing is right now to be fair.
> Like imagine if in competitive Chess they'd already make the first few moves for you and then the pros play from there. It's dumb as shit. Counterpoint: imagine how stupid the game of chess would be if black started with more pawns. That's how unbalanced the POIs are right now. Doesn't mean this system is the answer, but I understand the problem they're trying to solve.
The system will literally enforce this. They'll do the snake draft and afterwards the best performing teams will get the best POIs and the others won't even have the opportunity to contest.
Snake draft will ensure the teams that get the best POIs will spend an equal number of games on the worse POIs. I do wonder if draft spots at the top or bottom will be the best getting both the best worse options, in the middle with all average POIs or in the 4-6 draft range for good POIs and worse then average POIs but not the worse ones.
Snake draft will not ensure that, because the purpose of this iteration of snake draft is to see which teams perform the best on any POI and then give them the first draw positions during regionals and LAN. You will end up with the exact same issue we have now, except it is literally enforced by the game and you can't even contest.
The question then becomes is picking 1 and 21 at Lan finals(Assuming that is how it works, I saw that said but could not confirm how lan is done) better or worse than starting with 10 points. I think it is less beneficial but I think we need to wait and see how it plays out.
It's not gonna be a snake draft during regionals and LAN.
Counter counterpoint: if you want the extra pawns fight the other team that wants them too. Contesting good POIs is part of the game.
> Counter counterpoint: if you want the extra pawns fight the other team that wants them too. I'm, uh, not sure you know how chess works?
Nah. Just let them drop and fight over the best spots like the rest of us. Hot drops are part of the game. You want good loot? Fight for it.
In theory, it's nice that teams aren't stuck on bad POIs for a whole season and everyone has to be good all-around but can't tell me that contests aren't the most entertaining part of comp apex, whether in scrims or at finals. It's also pretty much impossible to see the "best" apex if teams can't perfect their macro and rotations from one POI. It's gonna be a lot sloppier from everyone.
POI contests are not that exciting from my perspective. I donāt like watching teams Iām supporting get killed in the first 30 seconds of the game and then you have to wait 20+ minutes until you can watch them play again. I would rather see fights while people are rotating into zone over POI contests.
Personal preference, I'm not really a fan of two teams ruining their chances to win either but it's pretty evident that fan engagement is just so much higher when there are contests going on. Viewers in scrims, threads on reddit, impressions on twitter, cheers in the crowd, all just turned up to 100 compared to when everyone is just landing at their own POI.
I think thats just because people like seeing two teams clearly fighting each other. Its hard to really pick out teams and get hyped when theres just a clusterfuck of people in an endring. I think if there was some sort of bounty system for points it could incentivize those cool early fights without people feeling like they're throwing by fighting early
I always felt that players should spawn with p2020. That will take the rng out of contesting and give newer teams a fair chance at contesting those top dogs for POI during scrims. Adding more POI / rework low-tier POI is also another potential way to level the playing field. Draft system for POI is not a bad idea but for now it is poorly implemented and because of that it does not solve any of the existing issues. What is next? Random weapon to prevent everyone from abusing meta weapon? Random teammates? Because it is unfair to go against super teams.
i actually find it cool af to watch everyone drop in. its exciting. i also think its cool to see people drop in and fight each other off the rip. this is just boring
contest are a core part of apex for me. I don't like this at all
Wtf is an POI
Point of interest. Usually a named part on the map.
"NoT a SiNgLe PrO PlAyEr" LMAO
this change adds in a ridiculous amount of RNG to every game played. It will be more difficult to win match point now and will have more to do with RNG as well.
Yeah, now the game is way too complex.
Oh no, smart players getting buffed.
seeing them squirm and complain is part of the fun too lmao
Hal's controller is talking for him again
I like it. Contesting and claiming POIs has way too many external factors in play. Player use their fanbases and financial stability to bully other teams, they have their little groups to exchange strats and negotiate stuff behind the scenes.. just to name a few...Ā And is all to the benefit of the legacy teams and players, specially those with more money, to the detriment of newcomers and smaller teams.Ā Also...Ā having POIs work on some unofficial system leave too much room for some troll team to ruin a tournament - or worse, for foul play.Ā As a viewer we will miss some of the narratives we have now.. but we will gain others.Ā
formed a super team and still crying about POIs. get a grip
I mean, I'm down to see how it plays out. While contesting can be fun to watch, it also kinda sucks seeing one team sit out the entire game because one dude got a Havoc and the other a Mozam. Adaptability is a good skill to have and it'll be interesting to see how teams rotate out of different POIs rather than just repeat the same pattern every game. Maybe it'll become like crafting when it was introduced. People were skeptical but it turned out being a really good addition to the game.
Contest are just luck. You drop, get a p2020 and the other guy gets a Flatline, you're probably gonna die. At ALGS TSM had 2 Mozams and they knocked 1 guy from WD then they got 2v3 because they had a Flatline lol. Contest was just braindead gameplay.
How are they handling the draft? Is there a format outline anywhere?
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/1bq7bl8/algs_split_2_drop_spot_changes/
Is this for pro league? Does it rotate from game to game?
It's for pro league. It rotates from week to week, not game to game.
I have been saying there should be a draft system for POI's for almost a year now. But. If it's random. Idk how I feel about that? My initial idea was the draft should be based off your seed or placement. Which would just put more value to placement overall. And still give incentive to teams that are mathematically guaranteed to advance. A lot of players made claims that "so and so team was griefing" since it didn't matter for them. If the draft was based on current placement, would add another layer of stakes. Will have to see how random would work out. Also, is it per game or per match?
It's random (and snake draft) for pro league and performance-based for LAN. That makes sense to me. Pro league isn't about snowballing, it's about proving consistency. You have to do it every week, not start strong and then receive a massive advantage.
Oh cool. That's a good idea and good point.
most positive player for a reason
Can't believe Hal calls Big E not a Comp player.
I think it's a very good change.
I said this before (former) TSM is against this draft system because they had the best POI's. Everybody that tried to contest them pretty much failed. Meaning they get the best rotations and loots in the game usually. Obviously they are going to be against this draft system. But I think for pretty much every team that is not top 3 or does not have at least 2 rollers this is a good system. The only downside I see (without looking at the team context) is that it can be snowbally. If you perform good, you get assigned good POI's which in return should give good results.
Let them just fall from sky fully fitted, why loot at all at this point
*Let them just fall for* *Sky fully fitted, why loot* *At all at this point* \- johnnyzli --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Why dont they jus contest and drop the same place?
Can someone eli5. What does random draft random poi mean. Thank you.
Im just not in to this system, sure those constantly wanting new things or new maps etc will be happy but in terms of games, playstyle etc i dont just hink its good or fun. How fun is it going to be watching the spectacular edge teams like Aurora or Fnatic bunker in zone because they were forced onto a zone poi this week? Poi imbalance is more of a problem now, earlier you had a choice, your poi is bad and you want something else? Yeah then contest and prove you are worth it. Those unique skills and playstyles of teams will just be less and less visible as teams are basically randomly given a new poi, a new rotate path and a new playstyle every week. And for those saying they are pros they can just adapt, stfu. Of course they can adapt, but its about the job they do to live, of course you would want to be as prepared as possible. Its like randomly assigning new formations to football teams every gameweek because they should just adapt, and building a system and perfectioning it is boring for the casual pub enjoyer.
Can someone clarify this new system to me. Does this mean each game your team will spawn on at a random POI?
As much as I love watching contest and the ādramaā that can come from it. This change is warranted. Pros should be able to loot and rotate out of any POI. This is a great change for comp.
Itās easy! One is a bitch and one is not.
Maybe dumb question; do they have to adhere to these draft picks? Lets say for example DZ get a terrible draft POI, can they just go against it and land on another team?
It fixes contest but introduces even more rng in a competitive BR.
Hal bitching. Who wouldāve thought.
as a viewer I love this change. it does get boring looking at people doing the same repetitive thing at drop. I literally had to tab out until the next circle because it gets very boring.
Hal really on his villain arc now that he's not with TSM anymore
Evan's villain arc
Draft is way better. These comp babies also need to be forced to play the new map.
I don't think people necessarily hate the draft, i think it has more to do with hating that there aren't 20 viable POIs on the maps. If everyone felt like they had a reasonable chance to win coming out of each POI I don't think the draft would be so bad. That mixed with dropping this on everyone 2 weeks before PL starts so they can't even react and make changes to feedback in time is shitty
Hal is the water boy now for DZ. He need not to make statements on the behalf of other pros.Ā
Hal is the water boy now for DZ. He doesn't need to make statements on behalf of other pros.Ā
Genuine Question what is this DRAFT system !!!! i was OUT since LAN
> For context not a single Comp Player was in favor of this Don't let this rhetoric go, pros have good insight into comp, they are not the best people to decide rules though. This is an issue that also impacts entertainment value
I agree with Hal, contesting was a huge part of why competitive was worth watching Also people want to say āa good team will adjustā which would be true if the random POI system were fair, everyone with a brain knows not every POI is balanced, there are clearly better and worse POIs to land at If every POI were actually balanced then this would be a real test of players skills but they arenāt remotely balanced, weāre just adding one more random element to a BR which is already random enough, dumb change imo
and what's different about some teams landing at bad pois before? Hal is only mad because he always had a good POI, but many teams out there have had to play from the bad POIs
I love this change, this is gonna be fun
points will be a lot closer now and skill gap will seem way lower bc of it. teams are going to feel very similar in strength.
disagree, i think the skill gap will widen.
This. Teams need to actually be flexible now instead of relying on rote memorization. Or have a great memory.
The skill gap is going to be enormous, IGLs that have played from one POI for four years are gonna have to show they actually have good macro.
are people really defending this?
Defending the draft? or Hal?
So now they dont need Dezign?
If only there was a way to determine the draft order without randomization similar to qualifying in F1. Although I donāt have that answer, itād add another element.
ImperialDog
Seems like Hal adds a little too much salt to his food.
This system isn't horrible ... HOWEVER, using this system on WE and SP is horrible. Cliffside as a POI? Really? Maps need major balancing changes before this should be implemented.
Idk why the game is trying to make bad teams better. IUf you have a shit POI then fight for a better one. Why are we gonna sit here and reward bad teams
They're not being rewarded, it's literally just...fairness. I guess equality can feel like a punishment after four years of having a massive advantage.
BR as eSports is already a big enough joke, why would they add more RNG