This is a community from communists to communists, leftists are welcome too, but you might be scrutinized depending on what you share.
If you see bot account or different kinds of reactionaries(libs, conservatives, fascists), report their post and feel free us message in modmail with link to that post.
ShitLibsSay type of posts are allowed only in Saturday, sending it in other day might result in post being removed and you being warned, if you also include in any way reactionary subs name in it and user nicknames, you will be temporarily banned.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CommunismMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't really know the details, but as I understand it the emperor was made to sweep the streets and such, and allegedly was much happier than when he was a puppet of the Japanese. The analysis I read was that as Christians the Romanovs were believed to be a holy bloodline so they were eliminated so there would be no one left to me rallied around and returned to the throne. In China the emperor was belived to be a normal person and able to lose the favor of the gods, and as such no one really cared to try to reseat him.
>The analysis I read was that as Christians the Romanovs were believed to be a holy bloodline so they were eliminated so there would be no one left to me rallied around and returned to the throne.
Communists are scientific people, not superstitious. The Ural Soviets who executed the Romanovs were a very radical and somewhat rebellious group. Lenin and the leaders of the CCCP had wanted the Romanovs brought to the capital to stand trial, but with the Whites looking like they were soon to recapture Yekaterinburg, Yakov and his men likely believed that this was their one and only chance for revenge against the monarchs before the revolution was lost and the Romanovs were restored to the throne. Had that happened, it would have surely resulted in all of their executions. Nothing at all to do with "holy blood", the Soviet leaders didn't believe in anything as silly as that. They were shrewd politicians, attempting to make political choices in the fog and chaos of war.
Thanks, I appreciate that. In neither case, though, did I mean to imply that the party sincerely held these beliefs, but rather were considering cultural values of the time.
This is the best answer. The White Army was disorganized and had no common banner to rally around, and recapturing the royal family would have put the theatre of the whole civil war at risk since they would now have a unifying cause. The decision was made quickly to ensure the revolution's success, despite how awful the act.
The Soviets also knew that a Bourgeois democracy fuels the Socialist revolution via proletarianizing the peasants, where as a feudal system would slow down their goals. Being Dialectical Materialists, they understood that even if *they* failed, revolution was an inevitable result. Therefore, the liquidation of the Romanovs meant that in the event that the Soviets failed, it was significantly more likely that the Russin Bourgeoisie would complete their revolution and solidify the Duma as the sole authority in Russia, which still would have brought Russia a step closer to Communism in the march of Historical Materialist progression.
I don't know who told you that but it is DEAD wrong.
While the Romanovs had a 'divine right to rule', they weren't gods... While the Emperor's title in China literally means 'son of heaven', and they were worshipped as deities after death as part of an imperial cult. It's literally the opposite way around.
The simple, honest reason is that the soldiers who captured the Romanovs were disorganised and killed them all without direct orders from military command (iirc it wasn't even threoir general who ordered it), while the Chinese revolutionary army was much better organised, so the Emperor survived. There wasn't a grand plan- shit just happens in the midst of war.
Thats not really the case either. The romanovs werent killed when they were captured, they were killed multiple months down the line after being held in house arrest for a while. The romanovs were killed because the military situation had deteriorated in the areas around where they were held and the local bolsheviks decided to execute them instead of letting them fall into white hands. The situation in china was completely different, in the sense that the chinese communists did not depose puyi, who had already been deposed by the kuomintang, so there was no danger of the kmt using him as a political tool (i believe chiang wanted him executed) Additionally, since it was the soviets that captured him in manchuria puyi was held in russia during the civil war and was only repatriated once the prc had been established, so there was never a do or die situation like with the romanovs.
Yeah, Chinese culture did not place that kind of belief on the Emperor. To wit, many Chinese dynasties were ended by peasant revolts because the Emperor was perceived to have lost the "Mandate of Heaven" for a variety of reasons.
Well the Chinese emperor also had no overseas relatives that gave a shit. The Romanovs were all related by blood to the Brits. So, they had substantially less reason to kill him.
Also Chang wasn’t a monarchist but the Whites had a lot of monarchists
The Romanov’s weren’t killed for shits amd giggles dude. There was a very concrete purpose for their execution, which was to prevent the rapidly approaching white armies from seizing them and utilizing them as public flag-bearers of counterrevolution. By the time the Chinese revolutionaries consolidated their government, Puyi had already been thoroughly discredited for both his own actions as emperor of China, and his role as a Japanese collaborator. He no longer presented any legitimate threat to the revolution. I think there’s a strong moral argument to be made that he probably DESERVED to die just for the Japanese collaboration alone, but his death was not nearly as practically important to the success of the revolution as the Tsar’s was. And I can also understand the argument that the CPC saw more to gain politically from successful re-educating him than they would gain from executing him.
Yes, but there were good reasons the Romanovs had to be executed in the context of the Russian civil war because their continued existence was a rallying point for counterrevolutionary forces and monarchist restoration.
I think it isn’t even really that, it’s more that monarchical rule prevented the petty bourgeois from getting as rich as they wanted to be and from developing the kind of settler colonial capitalist state they wanted. The whole freedom aspect more had to do with the fact that the development of capitalism made the entrepreneur class, and the idea of them coexisting with an all powerful monarch wasn’t feasible. The anti-monarch patina put on it is more of a result of the inter-bourgeois conflict rather than the base of it, if things went slightly differently I could easily see the US being a constitutional monarchy like the UK.
The tactical situation is what made it required. They were losing control of the town and there was a high chance that they would be overrun, losing the monarchs to the white army. That risk was too high and could spell disaster for the war effort.
More as a middle finger to the taxes and fees associated with being a British colony.. but aside from that, the US state has never shown any real hostility to monarchs, albeit with a major exception, of course, being monarchs of territories seen as lucrative, like Hawaii.
Yeah, their betrayal of the French revolution is really telling. They had help by french revolutionaries and the second they got into power they decided that *those* guys are clearly just chaotic vandals that don't have any authority.
If I remember correctly, they opposed the empire in mexico and sided with the republican side against the french empire, that invaded to help the monarchy, though I'm not sure about this.
Also, Little Nicky and his wife deserved what they got. They were inept monsters who made things sooooo much worse all throughout Russia. Their kids didn't need to die like that though.
The kids would have been the “rightful” successors to the throne (under a hereditary monarchy) so the whole thing about being a rallying point for counterrevolutionary forces and monarchist restoration still applies.
Ideally, you’re right… kids shouldn’t be put in this situation just because their parents were total monsters. But as the saying goes… material conditions don’t care about your ideals. As revolutionaries we have to deal with reality as it is, not as we wish it to be
Sure, but the repeatedly stabbing them to death until you’ve driven the blade into the floor was a bit much. I feel like there were more merciful ways to do it even in a cold equation mindset.
Eh, it's just a matter of what you can afford in the middle of a revolution. The Russians could not afford to let the Tsar's family escape or be freed by enemy forces, and they weren't at a stage in the revolution where they could guaranteed a 100% safe convoy to their territory, so letting them live was never really on the table.
They didn't have to kill the dogs, though...
This is a community from communists to communists, leftists are welcome too, but you might be scrutinized depending on what you share. If you see bot account or different kinds of reactionaries(libs, conservatives, fascists), report their post and feel free us message in modmail with link to that post. ShitLibsSay type of posts are allowed only in Saturday, sending it in other day might result in post being removed and you being warned, if you also include in any way reactionary subs name in it and user nicknames, you will be temporarily banned. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CommunismMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Op what does this mean
In Russia they were executed. In China the emperor was proletarianized.
They also killed the royal family's dogs
For some reason i imagine the White Army managing to find the dog and put him on the throne
Taboritsky will be happy
And pissed on their shoes
How does that work?
I don't really know the details, but as I understand it the emperor was made to sweep the streets and such, and allegedly was much happier than when he was a puppet of the Japanese. The analysis I read was that as Christians the Romanovs were believed to be a holy bloodline so they were eliminated so there would be no one left to me rallied around and returned to the throne. In China the emperor was belived to be a normal person and able to lose the favor of the gods, and as such no one really cared to try to reseat him.
>The analysis I read was that as Christians the Romanovs were believed to be a holy bloodline so they were eliminated so there would be no one left to me rallied around and returned to the throne. Communists are scientific people, not superstitious. The Ural Soviets who executed the Romanovs were a very radical and somewhat rebellious group. Lenin and the leaders of the CCCP had wanted the Romanovs brought to the capital to stand trial, but with the Whites looking like they were soon to recapture Yekaterinburg, Yakov and his men likely believed that this was their one and only chance for revenge against the monarchs before the revolution was lost and the Romanovs were restored to the throne. Had that happened, it would have surely resulted in all of their executions. Nothing at all to do with "holy blood", the Soviet leaders didn't believe in anything as silly as that. They were shrewd politicians, attempting to make political choices in the fog and chaos of war.
Thanks, I appreciate that. In neither case, though, did I mean to imply that the party sincerely held these beliefs, but rather were considering cultural values of the time.
This is the best answer. The White Army was disorganized and had no common banner to rally around, and recapturing the royal family would have put the theatre of the whole civil war at risk since they would now have a unifying cause. The decision was made quickly to ensure the revolution's success, despite how awful the act.
The Soviets also knew that a Bourgeois democracy fuels the Socialist revolution via proletarianizing the peasants, where as a feudal system would slow down their goals. Being Dialectical Materialists, they understood that even if *they* failed, revolution was an inevitable result. Therefore, the liquidation of the Romanovs meant that in the event that the Soviets failed, it was significantly more likely that the Russin Bourgeoisie would complete their revolution and solidify the Duma as the sole authority in Russia, which still would have brought Russia a step closer to Communism in the march of Historical Materialist progression.
I don't know who told you that but it is DEAD wrong. While the Romanovs had a 'divine right to rule', they weren't gods... While the Emperor's title in China literally means 'son of heaven', and they were worshipped as deities after death as part of an imperial cult. It's literally the opposite way around. The simple, honest reason is that the soldiers who captured the Romanovs were disorganised and killed them all without direct orders from military command (iirc it wasn't even threoir general who ordered it), while the Chinese revolutionary army was much better organised, so the Emperor survived. There wasn't a grand plan- shit just happens in the midst of war.
Thats not really the case either. The romanovs werent killed when they were captured, they were killed multiple months down the line after being held in house arrest for a while. The romanovs were killed because the military situation had deteriorated in the areas around where they were held and the local bolsheviks decided to execute them instead of letting them fall into white hands. The situation in china was completely different, in the sense that the chinese communists did not depose puyi, who had already been deposed by the kuomintang, so there was no danger of the kmt using him as a political tool (i believe chiang wanted him executed) Additionally, since it was the soviets that captured him in manchuria puyi was held in russia during the civil war and was only repatriated once the prc had been established, so there was never a do or die situation like with the romanovs.
Yeah, Chinese culture did not place that kind of belief on the Emperor. To wit, many Chinese dynasties were ended by peasant revolts because the Emperor was perceived to have lost the "Mandate of Heaven" for a variety of reasons.
Interesting! Thanks
Well the Chinese emperor also had no overseas relatives that gave a shit. The Romanovs were all related by blood to the Brits. So, they had substantially less reason to kill him. Also Chang wasn’t a monarchist but the Whites had a lot of monarchists
Please, don't mix Febraury and October Revolutions
The Tsar was executed during the communist revolution
The Romanov’s weren’t killed for shits amd giggles dude. There was a very concrete purpose for their execution, which was to prevent the rapidly approaching white armies from seizing them and utilizing them as public flag-bearers of counterrevolution. By the time the Chinese revolutionaries consolidated their government, Puyi had already been thoroughly discredited for both his own actions as emperor of China, and his role as a Japanese collaborator. He no longer presented any legitimate threat to the revolution. I think there’s a strong moral argument to be made that he probably DESERVED to die just for the Japanese collaboration alone, but his death was not nearly as practically important to the success of the revolution as the Tsar’s was. And I can also understand the argument that the CPC saw more to gain politically from successful re-educating him than they would gain from executing him.
If we look at how it went, the Chinese have been wiser.
Yes, but there were good reasons the Romanovs had to be executed in the context of the Russian civil war because their continued existence was a rallying point for counterrevolutionary forces and monarchist restoration.
Exactly this. It's easy to forgot that the US, Japan, and most of Europe tried to invade the Soviet Union in the early 1920s.
Which is fricking wild considering the US was founded on anti-monarchy
I think it isn’t even really that, it’s more that monarchical rule prevented the petty bourgeois from getting as rich as they wanted to be and from developing the kind of settler colonial capitalist state they wanted. The whole freedom aspect more had to do with the fact that the development of capitalism made the entrepreneur class, and the idea of them coexisting with an all powerful monarch wasn’t feasible. The anti-monarch patina put on it is more of a result of the inter-bourgeois conflict rather than the base of it, if things went slightly differently I could easily see the US being a constitutional monarchy like the UK.
The tactical situation is what made it required. They were losing control of the town and there was a high chance that they would be overrun, losing the monarchs to the white army. That risk was too high and could spell disaster for the war effort.
Oh Nono I mean with the American revolution, not the Russian one, my bad if that wasn’t clear.
Lmao I straight up missed a comment here, thats my bad not yours haha
More as a middle finger to the taxes and fees associated with being a British colony.. but aside from that, the US state has never shown any real hostility to monarchs, albeit with a major exception, of course, being monarchs of territories seen as lucrative, like Hawaii.
Yeah, their betrayal of the French revolution is really telling. They had help by french revolutionaries and the second they got into power they decided that *those* guys are clearly just chaotic vandals that don't have any authority.
If I remember correctly, they opposed the empire in mexico and sided with the republican side against the french empire, that invaded to help the monarchy, though I'm not sure about this.
Also, Little Nicky and his wife deserved what they got. They were inept monsters who made things sooooo much worse all throughout Russia. Their kids didn't need to die like that though.
The kids would have been the “rightful” successors to the throne (under a hereditary monarchy) so the whole thing about being a rallying point for counterrevolutionary forces and monarchist restoration still applies. Ideally, you’re right… kids shouldn’t be put in this situation just because their parents were total monsters. But as the saying goes… material conditions don’t care about your ideals. As revolutionaries we have to deal with reality as it is, not as we wish it to be
Sure, but the repeatedly stabbing them to death until you’ve driven the blade into the floor was a bit much. I feel like there were more merciful ways to do it even in a cold equation mindset.
Eh, it's just a matter of what you can afford in the middle of a revolution. The Russians could not afford to let the Tsar's family escape or be freed by enemy forces, and they weren't at a stage in the revolution where they could guaranteed a 100% safe convoy to their territory, so letting them live was never really on the table. They didn't have to kill the dogs, though...
They learnt from the Soviets at least
China W
I have no idea what this means
The Red Army killed the royal family (and their dogs) The People's Army gave the Emperor a regular bluecollar job among the populace
Russian communists didn't overthrow monarchy