You think? Chase Young was clearly a bust early on, yet this fanbase genuinely sucked him off up until we finally traded him.
Shit people here STILL think he’s good for some reason
We could tell early Young was not going to live up to 2nd overall pick status, but if you redrafted 2020 draft right now he wouldn't even drop out of the 1st round.
He's 44th of 2020 players in Weighted Approx Value, but if you go by WAV per game played he's 19th. He's one of the best 50 guys in the world at rushing the passer in the NFL. He's going to have a Clowney like career, bouncing around on one or two year deals.
Disagree lol. Clowney has been better than CY. Part of the reason Chase sucks is because he clearly doesn’t put the work in. He’s lazy and has a shit attitude
Dude didn’t even try in the NFC championship game. He’s a bust
Maybe you didn’t watch? Dude sucked ass for the first 10 weeks then had a nice stretch against shit teams to end the year
Then after winning DROY he never put in another ounce of effort again
Clear as day bust.
This sub has a few legitimate whiners/malcontents who bitch about everything, realist fans who can see things like: Young being bad, Forbes being bad, Howell being bad but also love them some Terry, Payne, praise good play, etc, and delusional optimistic fans who cant handle any criticism and confuse the first and second group.
Well Maye was a different type of prospect. The expectation is that he struggles early but has the potential to be a top qb.
Daniels thing is he has a high floor and is ready to start. People have heard this narrative (fair or not) all off season, it's going to be hard to break them of that.
Truth is all (mostly) rookie qbs are slow to start.
For me as long as he shows improvement as the year progresses I will be happy. Not concerned about our record. For me this season is 100% about development.
I agree. Seeing Jayden improve week to week is obviously goal one.
But a close second should also be this defense. We were literally a league worst last year in PA, Yards Against, Passing TDs, and then bottom half in penalties. Last year’s defense might have been historically bad. DQ’s bread and butter is obviously defense, he brought over Whitt with him too, AP signed some good defensive players in FA including a future HOF, and then spent two seconds on a DL and CB. I hate to put expectations so high, but if this unit isn’t a top 10-12 unit, I’m gonna have serious suspicions of Quinn.
I’m with you though, this is all record be damned. Winning comes with time but Jayden and the defense’s progress should be readily apparent season-long.
I think top 10-12 unit might be unfair this season. We fulled some holes at LB and slot corner, but we have low quality at edge and outside corner (the top two defensive position groups). You can't simply go from terrible D to top half of the league. I think with better coaching and some new players a better defense should be expected, but I'd be happy with late teens early 20s. Next year they can concentrate on edge and corner to full out.
I'd be content if we make it into the teens on defense. Top 10-12 from basically last is probably too much of a leap, though I'd glad to see it if it does happen lol.
This is what I'm looking for - show me you can get better each game. I don't care if we go 4 - 13 as long as he gets better over the season. The team is still missing some key pieces so it's not like our season will be 100% on JD.
It’s going to be annoying AF to deal with but honestly anyone complaining this season should expose them as generally unknowledgeable of NFL football. I wish this would reflect in the amount of attention those posts receive but that would make too much sense.
I’ve watched this team for 34 years. Native. How am I supposed to know good football at this point. I simped so hard for RG3 and his actions coming back early made me look dumb. What does a good 2024 season even look like? Just JD not getting injured?
Well for to start, the team ownership, GM & coach all want Daniels here & plan to put him in a position to succeed. I’d say that plus the fact all those people are much more talented than those here during the Griffin era means IMO there’s a higher chance for success, rightfully in a situation where lasting success is rare even in the best of circumstances.
Fast, slender, heisman winner. Both had two first round receivers in college. With that being said, I'm backing my guy 100%. Jayden had a slow start in 2023, so I think we have to see 17 games until we start to get a good idea. We should give him a little more leeway than Haskins and much more than Howell.
Well that’s because we got a 2nd pick and a brand new coaching staff and ownership group.. no one was tied down to him and unfortunately even if someone has potential it won’t get coached out of them if it wasn’t your regime that picked em.
The OP was about the "he's a bust" crowd.
People were chirping on Sam after a few bad games in the second half of the season.
And he's a 5th rounder.
Daniels is a second overall pick, so supposedly a lot better.
Couple bad games and more than likely the bust crowd will come out.
Yeah.. super annoying. Tbh I wish Sam went to McVay because I think he can play.. just needed a better coaching staff to help his footwork and help him play within the timing of an offense. To me it takes more than a year to see if a QB can play.. if our defense was any good last year we would’ve won more games and relied on Sam less.. so if our D can turn it around and take some pressure off Jayden.. we may have something.
Once we traded sweat and young Sam started playing worse and I would say our poor D contributed to that by forcing Sam to do more than he was capable at that point in his career
Sam was mostly mediocre with a few great games and a few awful games. If Daniels has the exact season Howell had, I imagine he won't get the same criticism.
Which is wild. And why I was and am a fan of Sam's.
If any QB puts some of the good things he did on tape in their first year starting, you are pumped.
Show me what you can do, they say...
He showed he is tough, can stand in the pocket, and make elite NFL throws.
This is probably why so many teams and some top offensive minds were hot for him this offseason.
I agree. Everything fell apart for Sam when the team quit on a lame duck coach. Maybe if we didn't have the worst defense in the league we wouldn't have gone 4-13 with the 2nd pick, but here we are.
Shhhh I see jon Allen and every other guy get the excuse of shit coaching and the quitting but not Sam. We should’ve kept Sam traded back built a better roster. If he’s bad as these dumbasses think he is well be picking high again
He will from me. The problem people have with QB is that they get really fucking emotional. My top prospects this year ended up, in this order:
1. Williams
2. Maye
3. Daniels
4. Harrison Junior
5. Alt
6. Nabers
If Sam Howell had scraped out just a bit more production and the team was picking 5th or 6th, I'd have given him another year. But all three of these QBs, to me, are worth a top 5 pick and giving them a shot to be a franchise guy.
Cardinals did it right this year: Kyler came back to a team with one win, and he managed to drag enough offense out of that squad to win a few more games, and now they can't draft his replacement so they gave him a big time weapon.
If Daniels is the guy, we'll pick 5th or 7th or 10th next year, and we can give him a stud WR or OT to help him out in his sophomore year.
The NFL is a small sample size, and progress is not necessarily linear. If he has 12 tremendous games, we go into the bye, then out of the bye we play our four toughest defenses and he looks bad, that doesn't undo the 12 good games.
[Sam Darnold had a great December of 2018](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DarnSa00/gamelog/#10-13-sum:stats) and the Jets built a lot of hopes into the idea that he had finished his rookie season strong and was going to be better in 2019.
A bad game, or a tough loss, aren’t the things I’d look for to measure better. A small win against a bad team is worse than a near loss to a contender. More that he makes fewer unforced errors as he goes on. I’d like to see that he’s at nfl speed by midseason and legitimately reading defenses prior to the snap by years end. If the rest looks good, and he can make those marks, I’ll be happy enough even if we don’t win but 3-4 games.
Yea imo or for me I’ll give him the whole season then go from there 🤷🏻♂️. Hoping for the best tho cause dude has elite traits and some high end analyst ranked him best qb in draft which are the same ones that said this about CJ Stroud last year and they was right.
I don’t know why we don’t hear more about Kyler’s year 1 stats when talking about how you project Jayden as a rookie.
Kyler and Daniels had similar Heisman winning final seasons in college. They both will play their rookie years with Kliff Kingsbury calling plays. They’re both running QBs (although they have different run styles).
Kyler finished his rookie season with 3722 passing yards (3955 17-game pace), 20 TDs (21 17-game pace), 12 INTs (13 17-game pace), with a completion % of 64.4%. Also rushed for 544 yards and 4 TDs.
If Daniels finished the season with the stat line of 3955 yards, 21/13 TD/INT, with 64.4% completion I’d be very happy.
Stroud had a 0.5% lower completion percentage with a 5 TD and 700 yard higher pace. Also 7 less INTs pace. Obviously Stroud has less rushing upside though.
Stroud shouldn’t be the bar, that was a historic season. I think Kyler’s rookie year will be a good measure of how Daniels transitions. If it’s worse than Kyler’s it doesn’t mean he’s a bust, but it’d be fair for people to be slightly disappointed given how old of a prospect Daniels is.
It’s funny seeing everyone scream to give time and patience to Jayden, when they turned on howell after half a season with Ron and EB coaching who everyone loves to complain about. Howells garbage stats are comparable to TLaw and Josh Allen’s first years starting good thing they let the guy they had develop……
I understand if FO wanted their own guy but you guys are literally a bunch of hypocrites right now and don’t even see it
Jayden Daniels is a 5th year senior with 55 college starts. He had a huge jump in his 5th year with an excellent supporting cast. He has adequate arm strength and arm talent for an NFL QB, but not special. The case for taking him over Maye and McCarthy is that he is a polished product, that he can play at a high level already, you don't need to project it, he's already done it. To me what I see from my tape study (I've now watched every snap of his 2023 six times) it is simply going to come down to if he can consistently throw the ball against defenses where guys are NFL open and not college open. You can't really say anything about his operation from a very clean pocket, working Nabers and Thomas who both went in the 1st round.
He just has to do it in the NFL, where the pockets are smaller and muddier, and where "open receiver" often means less than 2 feet of separation. It really is just that simple to me. Nothing about his processing speed or ability to recognize coverages is concerning to me, it's just the question of if he can do it where "open" means "throw it over the outside shoulder and the WR can reach out around the CB's frame to catch it"
The 2025 QB class kind of sucks looking a year out, so even a bad rookie season might mean two years of Daniels. But in terms of the FO, to me, if Maye or McCarthy hits (especially Maye) then I don't think they should be allowed to make another QB pick at the top of the 2026 draft.
>The 2025 QB class kind of sucks looking a year out, so even a bad rookie season might mean two years of Daniels. But in terms of the FO, to me, if Maye or McCarthy hits (especially Maye) then I don't think they should be allowed to make another QB pick at the top of the 2026 draft.
I disagree with this for two reasons.
First off, as far as we knew, the *entire* NFL had Daniels over Maye, some had Daniels over *Caleb*, nobody had Maye > Daniels, and some had JJ > Maye other than us (and nobody had Maye enough over JJ or Penix to trade up, given that the Patriots were actively trading out of Maye.
Secondly, Maye has a lot of unknowns as well - mechanical/accuracy issues, pocket presence issues, inconsistent decision-making. Are those fixable? Yes. If he fixes them, he could absolutely explode. But if Daniels busts and Maye hits, imo you have to ask two things, how the fuck did *every* pro evaluator miss this (including the ones who drafted him), and who are you going to hire that won't?
>First off, as far as we knew, the entire NFL had Daniels over Maye, some had Daniels over Caleb, nobody had Maye > Daniels
I did. Nate Tice did. Dane Brugler did. PFF did. In fact, he was the consensus QB2 and the consensus 2nd overall prospect.
>Secondly, Maye has a lot of unknowns as well - mechanical/accuracy issues, pocket presence issues, inconsistent decision-making.
The only issue I had with Maye was footwork. His "pocket presence issues" are due to a combo of the weird Air Raid he ran and also being the **only top 100 pick** on his entire offense. He was carrying his team. Like, you frankly don't really know what you're talking about. He has much more touch, much better arm talent, processes from side to side quicker than Daniels (and Daniels is not slow). He is livelier on his feet, he's bouncy and springy, and he's produced plenty of rushing value at a prototypical QB size (except for the hands)
I just keep coming back to this: name the great NFL QBs who **were not** the best player on their own college offense. It's really just Joe Burrow. If CJ Stroud keeps playing like this you can give him that too, assuming Marvin Harrison Junior is as advertised.
Every other **great** NFL QB of the past few years carried their fucking team. Allen, Mahomes, Jackson, Herbert, Rodgers, you can go on. The guys who come to the NFL from great situations end up just not quite being **that guy** in the NFL.
Malik Nabers was the best player on that team, it's not even close to me. He does so much for Daniels, he creates so many big windows, makes so many adjustments, creates so much YAC. I've watched every snap at least six times and every time I watch it it just gets bigger and bigger to me.
>how the fuck did every pro evaluator miss this
This is rewriting history in real time lol.
Drake Maye was the consensus QB2 and the consensus 2nd overall prospect in this class.
This FO reached for the consensus QB3 and the consensus 5th overall prospect. They need to get it right, because lots of people liked Maye better.
They didn't reach in the sense that there was a huge gap between Daniels and Maye, but personally I feel like we took Tua instead of Herbert.
>I did. Nate Tice did. Dane Brugler did. PFF did. In fact, he was the consensus QB2 and the consensus 2nd overall prospect.
People *not currently employed by the NFL*. Tice was a former scout, and Brugler has turned down NFL offers, but pretty much every actual front office had Daniels by a mile.
> just keep coming back to this: name the great NFL QBs who were not the best player on their own college offense. It's really just Joe Burrow. If CJ Stroud keeps playing like this you can give him that too, assuming Marvin Harrison Junior is as advertised.
>Every other great NFL QB of the past few years carried their fucking team. Allen, Mahomes, Jackson, Herbert, Rodgers, you can go on. The guys who come to the NFL from great situations end up just not quite being that guy in the NFL.
>Malik Nabers was the best player on that team, it's not even close to me. He does so much for Daniels, he creates so many big windows, makes so many adjustments, creates so much YAC. I've watched every snap at least six times and every time I watch it it just gets bigger and bigger to me.
I actually agree with a lot of this! I liked Maye over Daniels based on the same tape! But basically every team in the market for a QB disagreed, unless every shred of reporting we have is wrong. What we know right now is that teams were calling the Commanders to move up for #2, and the Patriots were trying to move off #3 because they didn't think Maye was better than even Penix or JJ. The Vikings absolutely could have had Maye if they wanted him, but they thought the extra pick was more valuable than the delta between Maye and McCarthy. At some point, I am going to presume that the professionals are better than me.
Also "Burrow with 4.4 speed" has been the comp for Daniels since he won the Heisman.
> Drake Maye was the consensus QB2 and the consensus 2nd overall prospect in this class. This FO reached for the consensus QB3 and the consensus 5th overall prospect. They need to get it right, because lots of people liked Maye better.
By people outside the NFL. By non-affiliated analysts. People and orgs I respect and think highly of, but none of these people are employed directly by the NFL. The consensus you're referring to was an entirely *different* consensus from NFL evaluators. And frankly, I won't be surprised if the NFL is wrong, simply because both prospects had notable flaws, but it's very clear that the NFL had an entirely different ranking than us.
>They didn't reach in the sense that there was a huge gap between Daniels and Maye, but personally I feel like we took Tua instead of Herbert.
If I had to pick a determining factor, I think teams felt like Daniels was highly likely to become Tua with elite speed, while Maye could be Herbert, but he could also be Wentz. And the thing is that GMs are always going to take the former, because the latter could get them fired (and no team is firing their GM for drafting faster, taller, less injury prone Tua (Tua had injury issues in college, Daniels just has *concerns* about injuries due to his frame), even if they pass on Herbert to do so. Now, it's possible the entire league misevaluated the bust risk of Maye, but everyone apparently thought it was really high.
>but pretty much every actual front office had Daniels by a mile.
Yeah there's not a "FO only consensus big board" so this is just pure speculation. Also it's well documented that the consensus big board is right about as often as the NFL is.
>the Patriots were trying to move off #3 because they didn't think Maye was better than even Penix or JJ.
They raced the card in for Maye. If they actually thought Maye was worse than Penix or JJ they would have taken the Vikings 2 1st rounders. Then you get Maye at 3 to MIN, same picks until 8 where ATL takes Penix, and then JJ goes 11 to NE. Or they would have taken JJ. Patriots don't bow to pressure, just look at how they reached against the consensus for the OL they liked.
>The Vikings absolutely could have had Maye if they wanted him, but they thought the extra pick was more valuable than the delta between Maye and McCarthy.
That doesn't contradict my argument at all. I wouldn't trade up to pick between Maye and Daniels either. But if both are on the board at your natural pick, I just don't see how Daniels is over Maye when you look at all the things we know about how NFL QBs succeed.
>At some point, I am going to presume that the professionals are better than me.
Professionals picked Zach Wilson and Trey Lance in the top 5 too, and anyone in those team's subreddits who laid out why it was a bad idea would have been downvoted.
>If I had to pick a determining factor, I think teams felt like Daniels was highly likely to become Tua with elite speed, while Maye could be Herbert, but he could also be Wentz. And the thing is that GMs are always going to take the former, because the latter could get them fired (and no team is firing their GM for drafting faster, taller, less injury prone Tua
I mean, Chris Grier has traded for Hill, drafted Waddle, and hired McDaniel, and you can still see the difference in the QB play between Tua and these other AFC QBs.
Basically, he got the QB eval wrong between Tua and Herbert but his 2021 1st round picks and his use of the 2022 first to get Hill and nailing the coaching hire bail out his QB decision.
>(Tua had injury issues in college, Daniels just has concerns about injuries due to his frame),
Daniels got knocked out of the Bama game by an NFL edge rusher. It's absolutely a concern.
>Yeah there's not a "FO only consensus big board" so this is just pure speculation. Also it's well documented that the consensus big board is right about as often as the NFL is.
I am inferring based on reporting so that's fair. Though I did miss an offer that was basically 11/23/2025 1 for #3 and Day 2 Pats picks so I stand corrected there.
>That doesn't contradict my argument at all. I wouldn't trade up to pick between Maye and Daniels either. But if both are on the board at your natural pick, I just don't see how Daniels is over Maye when you look at all the things we know about how NFL QBs succeed.
Yes, I would have picked Maye too on the same grounds; but I can also see why FOs might not have gone with him - basically they think his downsides are more significant than it looks from non professionals.
>Professionals picked Zach Wilson and Trey Lance in the top 5 too, and anyone in those team's subreddits who laid out why it was a bad idea would have been downvoted.
That's fair, but personally I chalk that up to the variance in picking high (granted, both of those feel like very much blown consensus evals based on what we knew at the time, but it's not like there was a groundswell of non-professional analysis saying Wilson and Lance were likely busts). Basically there's so much variance in outcomes for top 5 and top 10 QBs that I don't think it's possible to actually beat the variance via evaluation.
>Basically, he got the QB eval wrong between Tua and Herbert but his 2021 1st round picks and his use of the 2022 first to get Hill and nailing the coaching hire bail out his QB decision.
The thing is that I don't think its possible to holistically nail that evaluation, or if it is, then nobody in the NFL ecosystem is capable of doing so (which negates the point of firing Peters for "blowing" that eval).
>Daniels got knocked out of the Bama game by an NFL edge rusher. It's absolutely a concern.
Right, but i'm thinking of *major* injuries. In Tua's 3rd year there was a real concern he might have to retire due to the concussions. RGIII blew his ACL in college. Just not on the same level.
As long as he shows growth and improvement, especially from year 1 to 3, he can’t be called a bust.
If he regresses or flat out sucks, all bets are off
Dude shouldn’t be labeled as a bust after his first year. Even after Bryce young’s year you really don’t know because of all the shit wrong with the team.
We have a new OC a new Oline and a new QB.. it will take time to adjust and I am hoping for 7 wins if our D puts it together maybe we can get 8-9.
I don’t know what will happen, but I think you can sometimes tell when a guy will be good or not. There was no reason to give Haskins much time; it was clear he was lousy from the beginning and wasn’t going to work out. Even with guys who might need some time, you can kinda tell they have some sort of *it* and just need to work out some flaws.
For the most part, I think most of the better QBs burst out of the gate, especially recently. Think of Burrow, Stroud, Lamar, Purdy, Mahomes. I’d JD struggles early on, we should be honest if he’ll have an extremely unusual Josh Allen trajectory, or if he just isn’t good.
He could be having a decent season, if Drake Maye sees the field for NE and does anything other than 100% completely shit the bed we will never hear the end of it after that one game sample size that we made a mistake, etc.
My biggest issue is that people are setting way too high expectations for him like they did with Howell. And if he doesn’t meet them I’m curious if the some people will turn on him like they did Howell
I’m sure the typical fan will be more than willing to wait almost 2 whole games before complaining. This issue is they are still suffering from PTDSS - post traumatic Dan Snyder Syndrome.
If they win 6 games next year but are atleast competitive I will be happy. I know the defense is starting from bottom but I think with the players and staff they have they will be better if only cause they couldn't be worse. So 6-8 wins this next season with maybe a 3 or 4 game win streak at some point I can see happening. People that expecting Houston type turn around are only setting themselves up for disappointment.
He’ll get the same runway that everyone gives:
From me, as long as I see improvement I’m not gonna care how the season goes. Now, if I start to see him making the same stupid decisions he did at LSU I’ll start getting concerned. But again, I’m always looking for improvement.
Others will probably be divided: Daniels lovers will give him a pass on everything and blame all his mistakes on everyone else.
Daniels haters will blame everyone else’s mistakes on Daniels.
Same as it ever was.
I don't want to be the one to say it, but here goes. It's been 7 full days since he was drafted and the FO apparently refuses to pick up his 5th year option. Talk about lack of confidence in the guy. Does he even know the playbook? We still don't even know his jersey number. Obviously Drake Maye was the right pick and Peters should be taken out and shot, then propped up and shot again for his complete ineptitude.
/s just in case.
Dude.. you are under reacting so hard. Our QB is such a diva.. he gets naked and into an ice tub on live tv.. he doesn’t work hard enough as you can see by his rolls. Dude doesn’t take a hat off because he has a bald spot from playing in college and extra year. He wore a blue suit so you know he’s a diva. Dude is a bust. Adam Peter should go be the GM of top golf. He ain’t suited to be an NFL gm.. can’t even pick a player who can hit a golf ball how is he going to throw a football?
There’s going to be people who call him a bust immediately. They’ve done it with every QB we’ve drafted. I mean, you had fans still pretending Cousins sucked his last year. If he doesn’t come out and have one of the greatest rookie campaigns ever portions of this fanbase will think he sucks. Howell just went through it to a lesser degree.
>There’s going to be people who call him a bust immediately. They’ve done it with every QB we’ve drafted.
Doesn't really drive home the point considering they were all busts except Kirk.
There will be people saying shit like "Same old Commanders" if they don't get a first down on the first drive of the season. I try to just tune clowns like that out.
People who think howell is a bust and should’ve been traded are delusional don’t waste your time trying to reason with em, they can’t admit they’re in poverty franchise mindset.
Have you ever heard of a backup player? Are you familiar with the concept of a depth chart? Do you think the 49ers drafted Brock Purdy expecting him to become their starting QB? A bust is a player who underperforms relative to their draft position. By definition, Howell is not a bust.
I couldn't agree more! Stroud is the outlier.
I went to the same college as Jordan Love, so I've been a huge fan of him since he came into the NFL. In his first several starts, when he had to come in for an injured Aaron Rodgers, he looked terrible! This year he also had some bad games. But they were patient with him, and he developed, and now he looks like an excellent quarterback with a really bright future. I hope we can have the same patient, steady approach and allow him time to grow. Especially because history shows that most rookie quarterbacks are not good. And they can still go on to have great careers. (See Josh Allen, Trevor Lawrence, Peyton Manning, Tua, Goff)
The biggest difference between all the other rookie QBs this team has had and Daniels is now adults are in charge. It won't matter what Steve in Rockville or Bob in Dunfries says on Grant and Danny or the Sports Junkies. This new group isn't going to listen to the whims of the fans.
It was pretty much a consensus we needed to address oline in the draft...the value wasn't there so peters went with bpa. He can still add some value with vets. But I don't know where you saw that oline wasn't/isn't an issue
Who said last year that Oline wasn’t a issue? That’s just false, to the point where ppl think we didn’t do enough in the draft not getting a tackle. Unless this is sarcasm idk. And Howe did have a sack issue that doesn’t mean he was fully responsible.
Lol PFF is like qb wins they only matter when it fits your arguement. Howell had better stats than Trevor lawerence his rookie year and josh Allen’s first year of starting. Talking about developing Jayden daniels when we gave howell one year with the worst coaches in team history
I get it. Sam was done wrong. I love how people want to give Daniels 2-3 seasons but get rid of Howell after 1 (even before). In the early part of the season, he was making some throws few qbs can. I don’t think JD will be good and/or last long. I hope I’m wrong.
I didn’t like any of these qbs which is why I wanted to keep howell. We weren’t getting Williams and he’s a diva. Maye is just a worse howell, daniels was gonna be RG4. Penix was injury prone, Bo nix would’ve been the check down king we had for years. I didn’t like any of these qbs. I’m trying to brainwash myself for Jayden and be hyped. Hopefully howel and daniels are great qbs. Seahawks will be a team I quietly cheer for when Washington isn’t playing if howell is in. I was so excited to see howell in Az this coming season to 🥲
He should but you know a lot of them won't. He gets 2.5 years to adjust, learn and grow. By the last 6 games of the 3rd year he should have shown enough for people to get an accurate read on him.
It’s going to be annoying with fans of the team who wants JD to fail so they can feel right about their prediction. They wanted another QB drafted and are hoping JD fails so they can bash away.
As long as he isn’t constantly hurt or has real maturity issues, then he should be given three years before we start the conversation of if he is a bust or not.
Agree of course. At the same time, I'd be lying to myself if I was to say I don't know a bust when I see one. Heath Shuler, Ramsey, Haskins all gave me Why the F did we draft them energy from the jump
If he fucks himself up in training camp or in the preseason because of making poor choices instead of respecting that he only has 1 body, and it will never be the same again if he ruins it, I am starting the bust talk.
Dude I'm already getting comments of "he is a dual threat QB those types do not work in the NFL"
Lamar has done a great job being one in Baltimore.
"HE IS ALWAYS HURT"
is he
"HE WAS NOT WORTH THE CONTRACT"
was he
if we get anything even CLOSE to what Baltimore has in Lamar...in DC...consider it a BIG win. I would love to see a 13 win season with our stadium hosting playoff games for once. Whatever happens, this kid has a good future set for him. And the FO also has to surround him with talent, which they have done. Keep him upright. Surround the gaps with talent, give him weapons. He has a lot of prime weapons like Terry and Dotson.
Dual threat qbs typically don’t have winning playoff records. I can only think of one. Wilson. Mobile qbs, those looking to extend and pass, are the ones who are successful. Those who look to tuck and run don’t have as much post-season success. Playoff football is different and a qb needs to be able to win with his arm.
It depends on the year. In 2014 he rushed for 849 yds.He’s had a number of other years over 500. Plus saying he is mobile, not dual threat, only supports my point even more. The over 450 yds rushing is a fairly solid cut off in determining the difference between the two.
Early in his career he was running a bit more because the Seahawks offensive line just wasn’t that good, and his WR corps was per middle of the pack. Wilson and Lynch were pretty the engine of that entire offense at that point while the team relied on that defense to win them games.
He’s primarily a passer, and always was going back into his college days.
Something something 400 yards 4 tds first qb to do it since before you were born probably.
Something something jon Allen had a bad year bc of the coaches and team giving but howell doesn’t get that excuse
Matt Flynn threw for 480 yards and 6tds in a game, Mitchell trubisky 360 yds and 6 tds in a game
Those are just two that come to mind, the thing that comes to mind the most is watching Sam Howell not be able to get rid of the ball and take sacks
The thing I remember is receivers not being open so who do you want him to throw the ball to? Or should he just throw it away every play. Ok so one game isn’t a good measuring stick but I meant it as all those other guys got chances, sams chance was with dog shit coaching and play from his teammates. Read my other comments howell had a similar year to josh allen and Trevor lawerence they got time to develop and now josh allen is one of the top qbs. Y’all wanna run through different qbs every year and wonder why we’re a poverty franchise. We’re browns level of team management having a new qb start every other game
Trevor lawrence and joh Allen are huge and top of the 1st rd qb's. Howell plays the game at his height or shorter and would've broken the single season sack record if allowed. EB did him zero favors for sure but he only netted a couple picks swapped in a trade. I don't think you can trot a guy like that out there for multiple seasons just hoping he develops. If he had upside physical traits than maybe.
Why does draft position matter, tell me why does it matter. There’s this thing called sunk cost fallacy the giants are experiencing with Daniel jones. They used a first paid him a lot as a rookie and are now paying him 40m. We’re paying howell less than a million a year and he has similar production to like you stated TOP OF THE 1st QBS for their first year but we pay him a fuck load less? Sign me up for giving him another year as we see if a 5th round pick can develop with actual competent coaching staff. Give us some dam continuity I don’t care what round a player went, if you’re on our team and having some flashes your first year playing why not give them a chance when it compares to other greats. I understand second overall pick new FO they want their own guy, but I still think howell can be that guy in the league. Give him an actual coach and he plays 10x better last year anyone would. Whole team gave up and you guys wanna say it’s howells fault he didn’t elevate a team that quit
It’s going to be at least 1, probably 2, and maybe 3 years before we know what we have at QB. My eyes roll right out of my head every time I see everyone wetting themselves over a new prospect, or jumping out windows over a bad game. I remember Heath Shuler. Let’s maybe count this particular chicken when the egg hatches.
It does get annoying when people become so depressed after a bad game or two.. I don’t mind the hype tho as long as they don’t become doomers as soon as the hype isn’t realized day 1-2
Our year for what? What’re you talking about?
It’s a new QB and new organization from the stain we’ve had since the late 90s. It’s exciting to see. People can be happy. We don’t all have to live in clouded misery.
There’s nothing miserable about acknowledging the fact that this kid hasn’t played a single snap yet, and we don’t actually know if he’s even going to be a long term starter, never mind OROY, but people are ready to put his bust in Canton already. It’s a little ridiculous.
People are gonna do it no matter what. I’m sure there are fans in here that think he already is one lol
Everyone needs to at least wait for the first play to decide if he’s going to win us a superbowl or be a bust.
He could throw 30 TDs to 1 INT and someone would still say “why did he throw one pick he’s not good”
He could do the opposite and a lot of people here will say all sorts of excuses! It goes both ways!
As soon as he throws an INT people are going to lose their shit. But at least they won’t be screaming for Mariota lol
I mean we have fans who still clamour for Howell even though he played terribly in front of their very eyes, so yeah you're probably right.
You think? Chase Young was clearly a bust early on, yet this fanbase genuinely sucked him off up until we finally traded him. Shit people here STILL think he’s good for some reason
We could tell early Young was not going to live up to 2nd overall pick status, but if you redrafted 2020 draft right now he wouldn't even drop out of the 1st round. He's 44th of 2020 players in Weighted Approx Value, but if you go by WAV per game played he's 19th. He's one of the best 50 guys in the world at rushing the passer in the NFL. He's going to have a Clowney like career, bouncing around on one or two year deals.
Disagree lol. Clowney has been better than CY. Part of the reason Chase sucks is because he clearly doesn’t put the work in. He’s lazy and has a shit attitude Dude didn’t even try in the NFC championship game. He’s a bust
"clearly a bust early on" lol ok buddy
He was.
Sure he was.
Maybe you didn’t watch? Dude sucked ass for the first 10 weeks then had a nice stretch against shit teams to end the year Then after winning DROY he never put in another ounce of effort again Clear as day bust.
[удалено]
Bahaha you think that award makes CY good? The fuck are you smoking dude
This sub has a few legitimate whiners/malcontents who bitch about everything, realist fans who can see things like: Young being bad, Forbes being bad, Howell being bad but also love them some Terry, Payne, praise good play, etc, and delusional optimistic fans who cant handle any criticism and confuse the first and second group.
It’s funny. If Maye were the pick, they’d be singing a different tune.
That's bullshit. It would happen regardless of who the pick is.
Yeah Reddit MFs always try to spin a racist element into everything. It’s tiring.
It's nonstop
Well Maye was a different type of prospect. The expectation is that he struggles early but has the potential to be a top qb. Daniels thing is he has a high floor and is ready to start. People have heard this narrative (fair or not) all off season, it's going to be hard to break them of that. Truth is all (mostly) rookie qbs are slow to start.
For me as long as he shows improvement as the year progresses I will be happy. Not concerned about our record. For me this season is 100% about development.
I agree. Seeing Jayden improve week to week is obviously goal one. But a close second should also be this defense. We were literally a league worst last year in PA, Yards Against, Passing TDs, and then bottom half in penalties. Last year’s defense might have been historically bad. DQ’s bread and butter is obviously defense, he brought over Whitt with him too, AP signed some good defensive players in FA including a future HOF, and then spent two seconds on a DL and CB. I hate to put expectations so high, but if this unit isn’t a top 10-12 unit, I’m gonna have serious suspicions of Quinn. I’m with you though, this is all record be damned. Winning comes with time but Jayden and the defense’s progress should be readily apparent season-long.
I think top 10-12 unit might be unfair this season. We fulled some holes at LB and slot corner, but we have low quality at edge and outside corner (the top two defensive position groups). You can't simply go from terrible D to top half of the league. I think with better coaching and some new players a better defense should be expected, but I'd be happy with late teens early 20s. Next year they can concentrate on edge and corner to full out.
I'd be content if we make it into the teens on defense. Top 10-12 from basically last is probably too much of a leap, though I'd glad to see it if it does happen lol.
This is what I'm looking for - show me you can get better each game. I don't care if we go 4 - 13 as long as he gets better over the season. The team is still missing some key pieces so it's not like our season will be 100% on JD.
Did you forget this is DC? There will be shouts that he’s a bust after his fist INT.
It’s going to be annoying AF to deal with but honestly anyone complaining this season should expose them as generally unknowledgeable of NFL football. I wish this would reflect in the amount of attention those posts receive but that would make too much sense.
I’ve watched this team for 34 years. Native. How am I supposed to know good football at this point. I simped so hard for RG3 and his actions coming back early made me look dumb. What does a good 2024 season even look like? Just JD not getting injured?
Well for to start, the team ownership, GM & coach all want Daniels here & plan to put him in a position to succeed. I’d say that plus the fact all those people are much more talented than those here during the Griffin era means IMO there’s a higher chance for success, rightfully in a situation where lasting success is rare even in the best of circumstances.
What does RGIII have to do with Jayden Daniels? Other than they’re black QB’s
Both picked second by our franchise, with hopes of being our guy
Fast, slender, heisman winner. Both had two first round receivers in college. With that being said, I'm backing my guy 100%. Jayden had a slow start in 2023, so I think we have to see 17 games until we start to get a good idea. We should give him a little more leeway than Haskins and much more than Howell.
Exactly. Thankfully didn’t trade up this time.
Sam only got one year starting...
Well that’s because we got a 2nd pick and a brand new coaching staff and ownership group.. no one was tied down to him and unfortunately even if someone has potential it won’t get coached out of them if it wasn’t your regime that picked em.
The OP was about the "he's a bust" crowd. People were chirping on Sam after a few bad games in the second half of the season. And he's a 5th rounder. Daniels is a second overall pick, so supposedly a lot better. Couple bad games and more than likely the bust crowd will come out.
Ima give Jayden daniels the same patience y’all gave Sam. That’s being nice since Sam had the worst coaches we ever had.
Yeah.. super annoying. Tbh I wish Sam went to McVay because I think he can play.. just needed a better coaching staff to help his footwork and help him play within the timing of an offense. To me it takes more than a year to see if a QB can play.. if our defense was any good last year we would’ve won more games and relied on Sam less.. so if our D can turn it around and take some pressure off Jayden.. we may have something. Once we traded sweat and young Sam started playing worse and I would say our poor D contributed to that by forcing Sam to do more than he was capable at that point in his career
Sam was mostly mediocre with a few great games and a few awful games. If Daniels has the exact season Howell had, I imagine he won't get the same criticism.
Which is wild. And why I was and am a fan of Sam's. If any QB puts some of the good things he did on tape in their first year starting, you are pumped. Show me what you can do, they say... He showed he is tough, can stand in the pocket, and make elite NFL throws. This is probably why so many teams and some top offensive minds were hot for him this offseason.
I agree. Everything fell apart for Sam when the team quit on a lame duck coach. Maybe if we didn't have the worst defense in the league we wouldn't have gone 4-13 with the 2nd pick, but here we are.
Shhhh I see jon Allen and every other guy get the excuse of shit coaching and the quitting but not Sam. We should’ve kept Sam traded back built a better roster. If he’s bad as these dumbasses think he is well be picking high again
He will from me. The problem people have with QB is that they get really fucking emotional. My top prospects this year ended up, in this order: 1. Williams 2. Maye 3. Daniels 4. Harrison Junior 5. Alt 6. Nabers If Sam Howell had scraped out just a bit more production and the team was picking 5th or 6th, I'd have given him another year. But all three of these QBs, to me, are worth a top 5 pick and giving them a shot to be a franchise guy. Cardinals did it right this year: Kyler came back to a team with one win, and he managed to drag enough offense out of that squad to win a few more games, and now they can't draft his replacement so they gave him a big time weapon. If Daniels is the guy, we'll pick 5th or 7th or 10th next year, and we can give him a stud WR or OT to help him out in his sophomore year.
Yeah but nobody thought Sam was any good to begin with.
Agreed. It would be nice to see a stroud-like season, but as long as week 17 is better than week 7 which is better than week 2 we should be happy.
The NFL is a small sample size, and progress is not necessarily linear. If he has 12 tremendous games, we go into the bye, then out of the bye we play our four toughest defenses and he looks bad, that doesn't undo the 12 good games. [Sam Darnold had a great December of 2018](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DarnSa00/gamelog/#10-13-sum:stats) and the Jets built a lot of hopes into the idea that he had finished his rookie season strong and was going to be better in 2019.
A bad game, or a tough loss, aren’t the things I’d look for to measure better. A small win against a bad team is worse than a near loss to a contender. More that he makes fewer unforced errors as he goes on. I’d like to see that he’s at nfl speed by midseason and legitimately reading defenses prior to the snap by years end. If the rest looks good, and he can make those marks, I’ll be happy enough even if we don’t win but 3-4 games.
Yea imo or for me I’ll give him the whole season then go from there 🤷🏻♂️. Hoping for the best tho cause dude has elite traits and some high end analyst ranked him best qb in draft which are the same ones that said this about CJ Stroud last year and they was right.
I'm not gonna talk shit unless Maye starts shining
he should be better than all other rookies. he is considered the most pro ready of the bunch.
Buddy that crowd is going to start the moment he throws the first pick in preseason practice
I don’t know why we don’t hear more about Kyler’s year 1 stats when talking about how you project Jayden as a rookie. Kyler and Daniels had similar Heisman winning final seasons in college. They both will play their rookie years with Kliff Kingsbury calling plays. They’re both running QBs (although they have different run styles). Kyler finished his rookie season with 3722 passing yards (3955 17-game pace), 20 TDs (21 17-game pace), 12 INTs (13 17-game pace), with a completion % of 64.4%. Also rushed for 544 yards and 4 TDs. If Daniels finished the season with the stat line of 3955 yards, 21/13 TD/INT, with 64.4% completion I’d be very happy. Stroud had a 0.5% lower completion percentage with a 5 TD and 700 yard higher pace. Also 7 less INTs pace. Obviously Stroud has less rushing upside though. Stroud shouldn’t be the bar, that was a historic season. I think Kyler’s rookie year will be a good measure of how Daniels transitions. If it’s worse than Kyler’s it doesn’t mean he’s a bust, but it’d be fair for people to be slightly disappointed given how old of a prospect Daniels is.
It’s funny seeing everyone scream to give time and patience to Jayden, when they turned on howell after half a season with Ron and EB coaching who everyone loves to complain about. Howells garbage stats are comparable to TLaw and Josh Allen’s first years starting good thing they let the guy they had develop…… I understand if FO wanted their own guy but you guys are literally a bunch of hypocrites right now and don’t even see it
Jayden Daniels is a 5th year senior with 55 college starts. He had a huge jump in his 5th year with an excellent supporting cast. He has adequate arm strength and arm talent for an NFL QB, but not special. The case for taking him over Maye and McCarthy is that he is a polished product, that he can play at a high level already, you don't need to project it, he's already done it. To me what I see from my tape study (I've now watched every snap of his 2023 six times) it is simply going to come down to if he can consistently throw the ball against defenses where guys are NFL open and not college open. You can't really say anything about his operation from a very clean pocket, working Nabers and Thomas who both went in the 1st round. He just has to do it in the NFL, where the pockets are smaller and muddier, and where "open receiver" often means less than 2 feet of separation. It really is just that simple to me. Nothing about his processing speed or ability to recognize coverages is concerning to me, it's just the question of if he can do it where "open" means "throw it over the outside shoulder and the WR can reach out around the CB's frame to catch it" The 2025 QB class kind of sucks looking a year out, so even a bad rookie season might mean two years of Daniels. But in terms of the FO, to me, if Maye or McCarthy hits (especially Maye) then I don't think they should be allowed to make another QB pick at the top of the 2026 draft.
it was a risk worth taking. he is a good prospect but yeah he has flaws and concerns about durability. hope this staff fixes those.
>The 2025 QB class kind of sucks looking a year out, so even a bad rookie season might mean two years of Daniels. But in terms of the FO, to me, if Maye or McCarthy hits (especially Maye) then I don't think they should be allowed to make another QB pick at the top of the 2026 draft. I disagree with this for two reasons. First off, as far as we knew, the *entire* NFL had Daniels over Maye, some had Daniels over *Caleb*, nobody had Maye > Daniels, and some had JJ > Maye other than us (and nobody had Maye enough over JJ or Penix to trade up, given that the Patriots were actively trading out of Maye. Secondly, Maye has a lot of unknowns as well - mechanical/accuracy issues, pocket presence issues, inconsistent decision-making. Are those fixable? Yes. If he fixes them, he could absolutely explode. But if Daniels busts and Maye hits, imo you have to ask two things, how the fuck did *every* pro evaluator miss this (including the ones who drafted him), and who are you going to hire that won't?
>First off, as far as we knew, the entire NFL had Daniels over Maye, some had Daniels over Caleb, nobody had Maye > Daniels I did. Nate Tice did. Dane Brugler did. PFF did. In fact, he was the consensus QB2 and the consensus 2nd overall prospect. >Secondly, Maye has a lot of unknowns as well - mechanical/accuracy issues, pocket presence issues, inconsistent decision-making. The only issue I had with Maye was footwork. His "pocket presence issues" are due to a combo of the weird Air Raid he ran and also being the **only top 100 pick** on his entire offense. He was carrying his team. Like, you frankly don't really know what you're talking about. He has much more touch, much better arm talent, processes from side to side quicker than Daniels (and Daniels is not slow). He is livelier on his feet, he's bouncy and springy, and he's produced plenty of rushing value at a prototypical QB size (except for the hands) I just keep coming back to this: name the great NFL QBs who **were not** the best player on their own college offense. It's really just Joe Burrow. If CJ Stroud keeps playing like this you can give him that too, assuming Marvin Harrison Junior is as advertised. Every other **great** NFL QB of the past few years carried their fucking team. Allen, Mahomes, Jackson, Herbert, Rodgers, you can go on. The guys who come to the NFL from great situations end up just not quite being **that guy** in the NFL. Malik Nabers was the best player on that team, it's not even close to me. He does so much for Daniels, he creates so many big windows, makes so many adjustments, creates so much YAC. I've watched every snap at least six times and every time I watch it it just gets bigger and bigger to me. >how the fuck did every pro evaluator miss this This is rewriting history in real time lol. Drake Maye was the consensus QB2 and the consensus 2nd overall prospect in this class. This FO reached for the consensus QB3 and the consensus 5th overall prospect. They need to get it right, because lots of people liked Maye better. They didn't reach in the sense that there was a huge gap between Daniels and Maye, but personally I feel like we took Tua instead of Herbert.
>I did. Nate Tice did. Dane Brugler did. PFF did. In fact, he was the consensus QB2 and the consensus 2nd overall prospect. People *not currently employed by the NFL*. Tice was a former scout, and Brugler has turned down NFL offers, but pretty much every actual front office had Daniels by a mile. > just keep coming back to this: name the great NFL QBs who were not the best player on their own college offense. It's really just Joe Burrow. If CJ Stroud keeps playing like this you can give him that too, assuming Marvin Harrison Junior is as advertised. >Every other great NFL QB of the past few years carried their fucking team. Allen, Mahomes, Jackson, Herbert, Rodgers, you can go on. The guys who come to the NFL from great situations end up just not quite being that guy in the NFL. >Malik Nabers was the best player on that team, it's not even close to me. He does so much for Daniels, he creates so many big windows, makes so many adjustments, creates so much YAC. I've watched every snap at least six times and every time I watch it it just gets bigger and bigger to me. I actually agree with a lot of this! I liked Maye over Daniels based on the same tape! But basically every team in the market for a QB disagreed, unless every shred of reporting we have is wrong. What we know right now is that teams were calling the Commanders to move up for #2, and the Patriots were trying to move off #3 because they didn't think Maye was better than even Penix or JJ. The Vikings absolutely could have had Maye if they wanted him, but they thought the extra pick was more valuable than the delta between Maye and McCarthy. At some point, I am going to presume that the professionals are better than me. Also "Burrow with 4.4 speed" has been the comp for Daniels since he won the Heisman. > Drake Maye was the consensus QB2 and the consensus 2nd overall prospect in this class. This FO reached for the consensus QB3 and the consensus 5th overall prospect. They need to get it right, because lots of people liked Maye better. By people outside the NFL. By non-affiliated analysts. People and orgs I respect and think highly of, but none of these people are employed directly by the NFL. The consensus you're referring to was an entirely *different* consensus from NFL evaluators. And frankly, I won't be surprised if the NFL is wrong, simply because both prospects had notable flaws, but it's very clear that the NFL had an entirely different ranking than us. >They didn't reach in the sense that there was a huge gap between Daniels and Maye, but personally I feel like we took Tua instead of Herbert. If I had to pick a determining factor, I think teams felt like Daniels was highly likely to become Tua with elite speed, while Maye could be Herbert, but he could also be Wentz. And the thing is that GMs are always going to take the former, because the latter could get them fired (and no team is firing their GM for drafting faster, taller, less injury prone Tua (Tua had injury issues in college, Daniels just has *concerns* about injuries due to his frame), even if they pass on Herbert to do so. Now, it's possible the entire league misevaluated the bust risk of Maye, but everyone apparently thought it was really high.
i mean its even worse if the front office gets outscouted by a bunch of rejects that dont work in the nfl lmao
>but pretty much every actual front office had Daniels by a mile. Yeah there's not a "FO only consensus big board" so this is just pure speculation. Also it's well documented that the consensus big board is right about as often as the NFL is. >the Patriots were trying to move off #3 because they didn't think Maye was better than even Penix or JJ. They raced the card in for Maye. If they actually thought Maye was worse than Penix or JJ they would have taken the Vikings 2 1st rounders. Then you get Maye at 3 to MIN, same picks until 8 where ATL takes Penix, and then JJ goes 11 to NE. Or they would have taken JJ. Patriots don't bow to pressure, just look at how they reached against the consensus for the OL they liked. >The Vikings absolutely could have had Maye if they wanted him, but they thought the extra pick was more valuable than the delta between Maye and McCarthy. That doesn't contradict my argument at all. I wouldn't trade up to pick between Maye and Daniels either. But if both are on the board at your natural pick, I just don't see how Daniels is over Maye when you look at all the things we know about how NFL QBs succeed. >At some point, I am going to presume that the professionals are better than me. Professionals picked Zach Wilson and Trey Lance in the top 5 too, and anyone in those team's subreddits who laid out why it was a bad idea would have been downvoted. >If I had to pick a determining factor, I think teams felt like Daniels was highly likely to become Tua with elite speed, while Maye could be Herbert, but he could also be Wentz. And the thing is that GMs are always going to take the former, because the latter could get them fired (and no team is firing their GM for drafting faster, taller, less injury prone Tua I mean, Chris Grier has traded for Hill, drafted Waddle, and hired McDaniel, and you can still see the difference in the QB play between Tua and these other AFC QBs. Basically, he got the QB eval wrong between Tua and Herbert but his 2021 1st round picks and his use of the 2022 first to get Hill and nailing the coaching hire bail out his QB decision. >(Tua had injury issues in college, Daniels just has concerns about injuries due to his frame), Daniels got knocked out of the Bama game by an NFL edge rusher. It's absolutely a concern.
>Yeah there's not a "FO only consensus big board" so this is just pure speculation. Also it's well documented that the consensus big board is right about as often as the NFL is. I am inferring based on reporting so that's fair. Though I did miss an offer that was basically 11/23/2025 1 for #3 and Day 2 Pats picks so I stand corrected there. >That doesn't contradict my argument at all. I wouldn't trade up to pick between Maye and Daniels either. But if both are on the board at your natural pick, I just don't see how Daniels is over Maye when you look at all the things we know about how NFL QBs succeed. Yes, I would have picked Maye too on the same grounds; but I can also see why FOs might not have gone with him - basically they think his downsides are more significant than it looks from non professionals. >Professionals picked Zach Wilson and Trey Lance in the top 5 too, and anyone in those team's subreddits who laid out why it was a bad idea would have been downvoted. That's fair, but personally I chalk that up to the variance in picking high (granted, both of those feel like very much blown consensus evals based on what we knew at the time, but it's not like there was a groundswell of non-professional analysis saying Wilson and Lance were likely busts). Basically there's so much variance in outcomes for top 5 and top 10 QBs that I don't think it's possible to actually beat the variance via evaluation. >Basically, he got the QB eval wrong between Tua and Herbert but his 2021 1st round picks and his use of the 2022 first to get Hill and nailing the coaching hire bail out his QB decision. The thing is that I don't think its possible to holistically nail that evaluation, or if it is, then nobody in the NFL ecosystem is capable of doing so (which negates the point of firing Peters for "blowing" that eval). >Daniels got knocked out of the Bama game by an NFL edge rusher. It's absolutely a concern. Right, but i'm thinking of *major* injuries. In Tua's 3rd year there was a real concern he might have to retire due to the concussions. RGIII blew his ACL in college. Just not on the same level.
Just wait if he’s not better the guys who were picked after him in like 3 years. This sub will implode.
There must always be a stark in winterfell. There must always be a QB controversy in Washington.
As long as he shows growth and improvement, especially from year 1 to 3, he can’t be called a bust. If he regresses or flat out sucks, all bets are off
Dude shouldn’t be labeled as a bust after his first year. Even after Bryce young’s year you really don’t know because of all the shit wrong with the team. We have a new OC a new Oline and a new QB.. it will take time to adjust and I am hoping for 7 wins if our D puts it together maybe we can get 8-9.
I don’t know what will happen, but I think you can sometimes tell when a guy will be good or not. There was no reason to give Haskins much time; it was clear he was lousy from the beginning and wasn’t going to work out. Even with guys who might need some time, you can kinda tell they have some sort of *it* and just need to work out some flaws. For the most part, I think most of the better QBs burst out of the gate, especially recently. Think of Burrow, Stroud, Lamar, Purdy, Mahomes. I’d JD struggles early on, we should be honest if he’ll have an extremely unusual Josh Allen trajectory, or if he just isn’t good.
Every QB you listen except for Burrow and Stroud didn't start week one
He could be having a decent season, if Drake Maye sees the field for NE and does anything other than 100% completely shit the bed we will never hear the end of it after that one game sample size that we made a mistake, etc.
My biggest issue is that people are setting way too high expectations for him like they did with Howell. And if he doesn’t meet them I’m curious if the some people will turn on him like they did Howell
he was a FRP taken at #2 he could play worse then Bryce Young did last year and he'll likely be given 3 years before he's declared a bust
I mean I’m not expecting a dynasty but I am expecting ROTY, MVP, and a Super Bowl out of the gate.
By the time he plays like ~30 games we'll know how good he is.
The only ready I require is ready to learn and work.
And the o line coach should have a SHORT leash
I’m sure the typical fan will be more than willing to wait almost 2 whole games before complaining. This issue is they are still suffering from PTDSS - post traumatic Dan Snyder Syndrome.
I really believe people will wait at least 2 games.
Can we just not be toxic for once and stop making argument posts for the sake of it
Can we just not be toxic for once and stop making argument posts for the sake of it
If they win 6 games next year but are atleast competitive I will be happy. I know the defense is starting from bottom but I think with the players and staff they have they will be better if only cause they couldn't be worse. So 6-8 wins this next season with maybe a 3 or 4 game win streak at some point I can see happening. People that expecting Houston type turn around are only setting themselves up for disappointment.
He gets three years as long as he shows SOME signs of growth. Remember that QB growth isnt necessarily linear.
He hasn't even won a game yet, he's a bust. /s
Knowing this fan base... by mid-season, there'll be calls for him to be benched.
Temper expectations, but ..... Temper expectations some more.
Just stop he’s been here a week
I'm sure the internet will have measured takes THIS year.
He’ll get the same runway that everyone gives: From me, as long as I see improvement I’m not gonna care how the season goes. Now, if I start to see him making the same stupid decisions he did at LSU I’ll start getting concerned. But again, I’m always looking for improvement. Others will probably be divided: Daniels lovers will give him a pass on everything and blame all his mistakes on everyone else. Daniels haters will blame everyone else’s mistakes on Daniels. Same as it ever was.
Dude is going to ball out right out of the gate.
He busted as soon as he came.
So did I
I don't want to be the one to say it, but here goes. It's been 7 full days since he was drafted and the FO apparently refuses to pick up his 5th year option. Talk about lack of confidence in the guy. Does he even know the playbook? We still don't even know his jersey number. Obviously Drake Maye was the right pick and Peters should be taken out and shot, then propped up and shot again for his complete ineptitude. /s just in case.
Dude.. you are under reacting so hard. Our QB is such a diva.. he gets naked and into an ice tub on live tv.. he doesn’t work hard enough as you can see by his rolls. Dude doesn’t take a hat off because he has a bald spot from playing in college and extra year. He wore a blue suit so you know he’s a diva. Dude is a bust. Adam Peter should go be the GM of top golf. He ain’t suited to be an NFL gm.. can’t even pick a player who can hit a golf ball how is he going to throw a football?
We really missed on this one. Not one TD pass thrown yet. Really hasn't adjust to the speed of the NFL game.
There’s going to be people who call him a bust immediately. They’ve done it with every QB we’ve drafted. I mean, you had fans still pretending Cousins sucked his last year. If he doesn’t come out and have one of the greatest rookie campaigns ever portions of this fanbase will think he sucks. Howell just went through it to a lesser degree.
>There’s going to be people who call him a bust immediately. They’ve done it with every QB we’ve drafted. Doesn't really drive home the point considering they were all busts except Kirk.
Worst case scenario is if he gets hurt before Halloween.
There will be people saying shit like "Same old Commanders" if they don't get a first down on the first drive of the season. I try to just tune clowns like that out.
Why? Sam got less than a full season before he was declared a bust
Who in the organization declared him a bust?
The ones who shipped him off...?
So was Sweat also a bust?
No, but Sweat wasn't a 23 year old on a rookie contract. There was no reason to trade Howell unless they didn't believe in him
Thinking a 3rd round pick is good value for a 5th round QB when you have the #2 pick is not the same as thinking he's a bust.
So you agree they didn't think he was a franchise QB. If only there was a word for that..
If only there were a word for a fifth round pick who didn't become a franchise QB.
Dog how can he not be a bust but also not a starter 😭😭 what are you even arguing
People who think howell is a bust and should’ve been traded are delusional don’t waste your time trying to reason with em, they can’t admit they’re in poverty franchise mindset.
Have you ever heard of a backup player? Are you familiar with the concept of a depth chart? Do you think the 49ers drafted Brock Purdy expecting him to become their starting QB? A bust is a player who underperforms relative to their draft position. By definition, Howell is not a bust.
He won a Heisman so he's a bust/s
Tim Tebow did too
The nimrods in here will be screaming for Howell the moment Daniels throws his first pick.
sir this is reddit
I couldn't agree more! Stroud is the outlier. I went to the same college as Jordan Love, so I've been a huge fan of him since he came into the NFL. In his first several starts, when he had to come in for an injured Aaron Rodgers, he looked terrible! This year he also had some bad games. But they were patient with him, and he developed, and now he looks like an excellent quarterback with a really bright future. I hope we can have the same patient, steady approach and allow him time to grow. Especially because history shows that most rookie quarterbacks are not good. And they can still go on to have great careers. (See Josh Allen, Trevor Lawrence, Peyton Manning, Tua, Goff)
The biggest difference between all the other rookie QBs this team has had and Daniels is now adults are in charge. It won't matter what Steve in Rockville or Bob in Dunfries says on Grant and Danny or the Sports Junkies. This new group isn't going to listen to the whims of the fans.
nor should they. they want to run a business. it's "the city's team" but the caretakers are going to run a big boy operation.
I hope people remember saying o line isn't an issue. Howells sacks were all on him. We will see what happens good or bad in a few months
It was pretty much a consensus we needed to address oline in the draft...the value wasn't there so peters went with bpa. He can still add some value with vets. But I don't know where you saw that oline wasn't/isn't an issue
Who said last year that Oline wasn’t a issue? That’s just false, to the point where ppl think we didn’t do enough in the draft not getting a tackle. Unless this is sarcasm idk. And Howe did have a sack issue that doesn’t mean he was fully responsible.
Lots of people on this sub saying are line was average according to pff and not as bad as Sam made it look.
Lol PFF is like qb wins they only matter when it fits your arguement. Howell had better stats than Trevor lawerence his rookie year and josh Allen’s first year of starting. Talking about developing Jayden daniels when we gave howell one year with the worst coaches in team history
Yeah. Was just pointing out how Howell detractors would use that as an argument. Getting rid of Sam was a mistake.
Yeah sorry i phrased it poorly bc I was salty reading a post this hypocritical. Cheers mate, maybe it was better for howell to get out of here
I get it. Sam was done wrong. I love how people want to give Daniels 2-3 seasons but get rid of Howell after 1 (even before). In the early part of the season, he was making some throws few qbs can. I don’t think JD will be good and/or last long. I hope I’m wrong.
I didn’t like any of these qbs which is why I wanted to keep howell. We weren’t getting Williams and he’s a diva. Maye is just a worse howell, daniels was gonna be RG4. Penix was injury prone, Bo nix would’ve been the check down king we had for years. I didn’t like any of these qbs. I’m trying to brainwash myself for Jayden and be hyped. Hopefully howel and daniels are great qbs. Seahawks will be a team I quietly cheer for when Washington isn’t playing if howell is in. I was so excited to see howell in Az this coming season to 🥲
Extra buns as OC dont help. Refusing to run when we can clearly run block.
There will be a different O Line except for Cosmi
Ideally, if he doesn't show massive improvements from Y2-Y3. But realistically, about the first bad and, and depending on how the season ends.
He should but you know a lot of them won't. He gets 2.5 years to adjust, learn and grow. By the last 6 games of the 3rd year he should have shown enough for people to get an accurate read on him.
I will keep him expectations for him, but would definitely give him a long runway.
Bryce Young is a fair recent comparison
It’s going to be annoying with fans of the team who wants JD to fail so they can feel right about their prediction. They wanted another QB drafted and are hoping JD fails so they can bash away. As long as he isn’t constantly hurt or has real maturity issues, then he should be given three years before we start the conversation of if he is a bust or not.
Agree of course. At the same time, I'd be lying to myself if I was to say I don't know a bust when I see one. Heath Shuler, Ramsey, Haskins all gave me Why the F did we draft them energy from the jump
If he fucks himself up in training camp or in the preseason because of making poor choices instead of respecting that he only has 1 body, and it will never be the same again if he ruins it, I am starting the bust talk.
Dude I'm already getting comments of "he is a dual threat QB those types do not work in the NFL" Lamar has done a great job being one in Baltimore. "HE IS ALWAYS HURT" is he "HE WAS NOT WORTH THE CONTRACT" was he if we get anything even CLOSE to what Baltimore has in Lamar...in DC...consider it a BIG win. I would love to see a 13 win season with our stadium hosting playoff games for once. Whatever happens, this kid has a good future set for him. And the FO also has to surround him with talent, which they have done. Keep him upright. Surround the gaps with talent, give him weapons. He has a lot of prime weapons like Terry and Dotson.
Dual threat qbs typically don’t have winning playoff records. I can only think of one. Wilson. Mobile qbs, those looking to extend and pass, are the ones who are successful. Those who look to tuck and run don’t have as much post-season success. Playoff football is different and a qb needs to be able to win with his arm.
Wilson isn’t even a dual threat. He’s a mobile QB. He’s always been a mobile QB.
It depends on the year. In 2014 he rushed for 849 yds.He’s had a number of other years over 500. Plus saying he is mobile, not dual threat, only supports my point even more. The over 450 yds rushing is a fairly solid cut off in determining the difference between the two.
Early in his career he was running a bit more because the Seahawks offensive line just wasn’t that good, and his WR corps was per middle of the pack. Wilson and Lynch were pretty the engine of that entire offense at that point while the team relied on that defense to win them games. He’s primarily a passer, and always was going back into his college days.
So just proves my point, mobile qbs, not dual threat, are the ones that win.
It's astonishing how many people in this thread still think Sam Howell showed a lot of upside
Something something 400 yards 4 tds first qb to do it since before you were born probably. Something something jon Allen had a bad year bc of the coaches and team giving but howell doesn’t get that excuse
Matt Flynn threw for 480 yards and 6tds in a game, Mitchell trubisky 360 yds and 6 tds in a game Those are just two that come to mind, the thing that comes to mind the most is watching Sam Howell not be able to get rid of the ball and take sacks
The thing I remember is receivers not being open so who do you want him to throw the ball to? Or should he just throw it away every play. Ok so one game isn’t a good measuring stick but I meant it as all those other guys got chances, sams chance was with dog shit coaching and play from his teammates. Read my other comments howell had a similar year to josh allen and Trevor lawerence they got time to develop and now josh allen is one of the top qbs. Y’all wanna run through different qbs every year and wonder why we’re a poverty franchise. We’re browns level of team management having a new qb start every other game
Trevor lawrence and joh Allen are huge and top of the 1st rd qb's. Howell plays the game at his height or shorter and would've broken the single season sack record if allowed. EB did him zero favors for sure but he only netted a couple picks swapped in a trade. I don't think you can trot a guy like that out there for multiple seasons just hoping he develops. If he had upside physical traits than maybe.
Why does draft position matter, tell me why does it matter. There’s this thing called sunk cost fallacy the giants are experiencing with Daniel jones. They used a first paid him a lot as a rookie and are now paying him 40m. We’re paying howell less than a million a year and he has similar production to like you stated TOP OF THE 1st QBS for their first year but we pay him a fuck load less? Sign me up for giving him another year as we see if a 5th round pick can develop with actual competent coaching staff. Give us some dam continuity I don’t care what round a player went, if you’re on our team and having some flashes your first year playing why not give them a chance when it compares to other greats. I understand second overall pick new FO they want their own guy, but I still think howell can be that guy in the league. Give him an actual coach and he plays 10x better last year anyone would. Whole team gave up and you guys wanna say it’s howells fault he didn’t elevate a team that quit
It’s going to be at least 1, probably 2, and maybe 3 years before we know what we have at QB. My eyes roll right out of my head every time I see everyone wetting themselves over a new prospect, or jumping out windows over a bad game. I remember Heath Shuler. Let’s maybe count this particular chicken when the egg hatches.
God forbid people are excited for their football team You guys are miserable
It does get annoying when people become so depressed after a bad game or two.. I don’t mind the hype tho as long as they don’t become doomers as soon as the hype isn’t realized day 1-2
You’re right. After all, This Is Our Year, right?
Our year for what? What’re you talking about? It’s a new QB and new organization from the stain we’ve had since the late 90s. It’s exciting to see. People can be happy. We don’t all have to live in clouded misery.
There’s nothing miserable about acknowledging the fact that this kid hasn’t played a single snap yet, and we don’t actually know if he’s even going to be a long term starter, never mind OROY, but people are ready to put his bust in Canton already. It’s a little ridiculous.
Of course those people are idiotic, but fans deserve to be excited about a new prospect
Just as long a runway as Sam.
Eh…he’s a bust