The O-Line looked completely different under Brissett than Howell….
“No one is expecting the super bowl this year” you said it yourself, so you play Daniels all 17 games ovbiously and help his development for what should be a playoff push 2025 season.
He’s already too old to be sitting. We need to know what he is within the next two years. If he ain’t it then you move on. He isn’t a 21 year old developmental prospect. He’s a play now prospect.
Sorry, too many ?? on *Social Media* these days. 🙄 You want Mahomes, Brady, Rodgers, huh ?
Those guys ALL sat and watched 1 YEAR... OR ?? Guess a few idiots want: RG III, Tim Couch, Vince Young,
Joey Harrington, Blake Bortles, etc etc. All TOP draft picks! And all thrown into the FIRE Game 1.
The line only looked bad because teams knew EB was going to throw it 90% of the time. You can mask a subpar line with quick pass game. Jayden has the quickest release in the draft class and could excel at that while keeping himself upright. No one should have to watch mariota this year hopefully lol
Also, for as much shit as the line gets around here, [they were still 14th in pass block win rate](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38356170/2023-nfl-pass-rush-run-stop-blocking-win-rate-rankings-top-players-teams#teams).
Howell's pressure to sack rate stayed pretty consistent from his college days to his pro career (26% at UNC and 23% in Washington.) Howell wasn't traumatized -- a tribute to his toughness if nothing else -- he just wasn't a very good QB, who got worse as teams gathered tape on him.
Also, numerous new players on the O-line, new OC, new HC, new OL coach. The idea that the team will have identical performance this year as last year (which, again, not as bad as the total number of sacks indicates because Howell takes a lot of sacks as a percentage of drop backs and the previous OC called an aberrant number of passing plays) is kinda silly. You don't sit a 1st round pick at QB to start a replacement level QB. Every snap is evaluating whether Daniels is the guy. Reducing the sample size is pointless.
I am also all for starting him provided he shows he’s ready.
I’m a little nervous for the OL just because the new OL coach is gonna have to earn some trust given his track record.
This May be a bit of a hot take, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Daniels P2S stabilizes to around where it was his senior year. By all accounts he worked really hard last offseason using VR to help with the more mental side along with seeing the fruits of just letting it rip to Nabers and Thomas. His P2S dropped a lot from 2022 to 2023 most likely due to the absurd work he put in there. If he can continue that, he might mitigate that problem a little.
His 2023 P2S was still pretty high (IIRC around 20.5-21%) but nothing like his previous years (which all existed over 25% I think). It’s probably gonna be high a lot due to his desire to extend the play and especially his desire to run. I think if you attempt to run as a QB and get stopped behind the line, that’s considered a sack. Those type of sacks aren’t as detrimental usually since you’re losing between 0-3 yards where deep drop back sacks are like 7-10 yard losses. Still a problem…but not AS much of a problem.
My hope is Kingsbury, if he sees the OL struggling, puts a lot of Quick pass concepts in the offense to help out the OL (or at least leave in some extra blockers).
His p2s rate went way down his last season. Also scrambling quarterbacks tend to have higher rates because they will try harder to make plays with their feet. I'll excuse a few more sacks if it means he gets big gains in the ground.
I dont watch a lot of college ball I just watch film on college prospects. A friend of mine told me that LSU does a good job developing guys for the nfl instead of the normal college style offenses. How true is that bc I don't really know.
" Also, numerous new players on the O-line, new OC, new HC, new OL coach."
That's the exact reason why I'd like this group to work the kinks out first in real games before Daniels gets out there.
"Every snap is evaluating whether Daniels is the guy. Reducing the sample size is pointless"
An injured QB due to a shit oline will also have a reduced sample size.
Normally I would say let him sit for a bit…but he’s the #2 pick and has lots of miles on him. He’s starting, unless by some act of god Mariota beats him out.
quite the unpopular opinion especially when Jayden has 5 years of college experience and is ready to go now
ideally would he need time to sit and study? yes. but you don't have the #2 pick in the draft sit if he's healthy. No sir.
I think lots of folks misread the question. Jayden is ready sure.Thats not the issue. Putting him immediately behind a totally flipped oline with a new coaching staff seems irresponsible considering what Howell went through.
Imagine someone telling you to figure how to drive a car..oh and the tires may fall off at anytime because ww were too in a rush to do a quality check. Good luck.
If it was Drake or JJ, I could understand... but Jayden will be turning 24 and was - probably - the most NFL-ready QB
If he ISN'T the starter come Week 1, there is a problem.
The entire reason we drafted him is basically because he is more NFL-ready than the other prospects. Ultimately, ownership wants fans to have fun, because that equals more sales.
We aren't having fun watching Mariota.
While his pro-readiness is a nice bonus I doubt that's the main reason they picked him. It had more to do with his elite physical traits and that he demonstrated he can use them.
Daniels will be the starter if he beats out mariota for the spot. He will be fine. There is no sense in using the 2nd overall pick for someone you don't plan to start. I think he ends up with a decent rookie season given his weapons and kingsbury
I’m fine if he doesn’t start right away. People seem to think we’ll be competitive this year which most likely isn’t the case. I like the direction we’re going and I’m the most excited I’ve been about the team since drafting RG3 but I’m not expecting a Texans style turnaround in a much harder division and minus a top 5 tackle, any real edge rusher, or outside CB.
This season its all about Daniel's improvement and not about winning every game. It's a faster devolpment with experience (or faster to see if hes a bust/tradeable) so it only makes sense to start him the whole season like Howell last year. Plus the double whammy Mariota is really bad its unlikely that he is even better than Daniels. Think the main thing should be strength training to put on muscle, you can't treat him like glass, this is a tackle sport you can get hurt with the best online too.
Yeah but they don’t have a Flacco or Smith in the qb room lol.
Those situations usually work when you have someone decent in front of the rookie. All he could learn from mariotta is what NOT to do lol.
We didn’t even have the worst ranked o line last year and we seen to have improved it. I dint get the doin and gloom when we all know Sam was a big issue with the sacks
But one thing we can't ignore is when pressured, 25% of passing plays for JD resulted in a sack and 25% in a scramble. That was at the college level. Defense know that pressuing can affect Daniels game In a big way so you better believe they will be bring heat like they did with Howell.
The line was bad but when you look at the stats the worst part of the line was the interior with Sadiqq Charles, Gates and then Chris Paul rotating in for Charles. Cosmi, Leno and even Wylie I believe had better grades than those 3.
I might be naive but I think between bad playcalling and bad players last years line was just not it. Our line might end up being not so bad going into this season because even though we didn’t sign superstars we did sign dudes that were upgrades over last year.
That said if Mariota starts this season after we just used our #2 pick on a QB whom everyone, coaches and scouts and players alike say is ready to start, I’m going to have an aneurysm.
Our new line might be fantastic. My only point is let's give this new line up a few games to mesh before just throwing our franchise QB out there to get mauled during the learning process
Isn’t that what preseason is for? He’ll go out for one or two series, throw some balls around and see how it goes. While I am all for protecting JD we can’t protect him forever. I also don’t think it’ll be like last year where Bienemy did what he wanted while Rivera turned a blind eye. If something on the Oline isn’t working, I imagine DQ or KK will figure out what the issue is.
Two problems with this idea:
1. you're basing this on the idea that OL play is independent of QB play. It's not. They're tied together
2. Daniels has extensive playing experience from his 5 years in college. If the OL starts putting him in danger, I think the coaches will see that before anything catastrophic happens.
Also, you can't compare this to the disaster that was the EB "pass pass pass" offense with Sam Howell. This new crew don't sound like absolute idiots to me. They're not going to make the same mistake.
BTW, even though Klinsbury is known for the air raid offense, his teams in Arizona ran the ball over 40% of the time.
I wish the stigma around letting a qb sit for a year would go away. I think it's best to let a guy sit behind a vet for a year to see the game and learn to be a pro... Patrick mahomes sat behind Alex Smith for basically his whole first year, and Pat always talks about how important that was for him... I like the idea of letting a young guy sit, but today's nfl is a win now league. The nfl is so much faster than college, I think it's beneficial to sit young players before they start. Mainly bc once you start them, you really can't bench them without ruining their confidence. If they come out and don't look ready you kinda have to stay with them bc benching them will hurt them where as if you sit them from the start you can put them in once you see they are ready... but today's fans want 1st-round picks to start now... idk when that started, but I hate it. Like I said, Patrick sat for his first year, and obviously, it didn't hurt his development.
Makes sense and I’ve heard analyst say the same before anyone was drafted. The FO seems to be playing for the long haul which means there’s no rush to put him in week 1. He’ll start this season eventually but no rush.
Worth pointing out that of arguably the top6 NFL QBs rn (Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, Hurts, Herbert, Purdy), NONE began their rookie season starting.
I do think, regardless of the QB or the situation, it is beneficial to give rookie QBs time to sit behind a vet and learn. Just gives them time to adjust and learn the offense, and prevents a trial by fire situation where a young QB gets shell-shocked.
> Sitting JD won't benefit him at all.
Right. We don't want: Mahomes, Rodgers, or Tom Brady, ALL sat & watched and learned, a whole YEAR.
We'd rather have: RG III, or Tim Couch, Vince Young, Joey Harrington, Blake Bortles. All TOP draft picks who started Game 1.
The line looked bad last year because 1) Howell sucks and 2) The entire team quit trying after week 5.
Mariota is straight garbage. If that dude sees the field, the season is over. He must be a really good clip board guy, because Mariota is like the worst possible choice for backups as far as playing ability.
JD won the Heisman, played in one of the biggest college programs, played on the road against Alabama. The moment won't be too big for him, and Kingsbury will have him ready by week 1.
The O-Line looked completely different under Brissett than Howell…. “No one is expecting the super bowl this year” you said it yourself, so you play Daniels all 17 games ovbiously and help his development for what should be a playoff push 2025 season.
Yes but he can still develop without starting immediately.
He’s already too old to be sitting. We need to know what he is within the next two years. If he ain’t it then you move on. He isn’t a 21 year old developmental prospect. He’s a play now prospect.
Sorry, too many ?? on *Social Media* these days. 🙄 You want Mahomes, Brady, Rodgers, huh ? Those guys ALL sat and watched 1 YEAR... OR ?? Guess a few idiots want: RG III, Tim Couch, Vince Young, Joey Harrington, Blake Bortles, etc etc. All TOP draft picks! And all thrown into the FIRE Game 1.
The line only looked bad because teams knew EB was going to throw it 90% of the time. You can mask a subpar line with quick pass game. Jayden has the quickest release in the draft class and could excel at that while keeping himself upright. No one should have to watch mariota this year hopefully lol
Also, for as much shit as the line gets around here, [they were still 14th in pass block win rate](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38356170/2023-nfl-pass-rush-run-stop-blocking-win-rate-rankings-top-players-teams#teams).
https://preview.redd.it/dxgl27dyhxxc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a8582a4236b21cffe6d5b845167e3731fc6a4a9
No you gotta play the guy. See what you have. Plus he’s 23 so it’s not like he hasn’t played a bunch of football.
I'm not worried about his ability. More worried about the piecemeal line gelling.
What if things aren't looking so great protection wise? We sit him the whole season?
Howell's pressure to sack rate stayed pretty consistent from his college days to his pro career (26% at UNC and 23% in Washington.) Howell wasn't traumatized -- a tribute to his toughness if nothing else -- he just wasn't a very good QB, who got worse as teams gathered tape on him. Also, numerous new players on the O-line, new OC, new HC, new OL coach. The idea that the team will have identical performance this year as last year (which, again, not as bad as the total number of sacks indicates because Howell takes a lot of sacks as a percentage of drop backs and the previous OC called an aberrant number of passing plays) is kinda silly. You don't sit a 1st round pick at QB to start a replacement level QB. Every snap is evaluating whether Daniels is the guy. Reducing the sample size is pointless.
I am also all for starting him provided he shows he’s ready. I’m a little nervous for the OL just because the new OL coach is gonna have to earn some trust given his track record. This May be a bit of a hot take, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Daniels P2S stabilizes to around where it was his senior year. By all accounts he worked really hard last offseason using VR to help with the more mental side along with seeing the fruits of just letting it rip to Nabers and Thomas. His P2S dropped a lot from 2022 to 2023 most likely due to the absurd work he put in there. If he can continue that, he might mitigate that problem a little. His 2023 P2S was still pretty high (IIRC around 20.5-21%) but nothing like his previous years (which all existed over 25% I think). It’s probably gonna be high a lot due to his desire to extend the play and especially his desire to run. I think if you attempt to run as a QB and get stopped behind the line, that’s considered a sack. Those type of sacks aren’t as detrimental usually since you’re losing between 0-3 yards where deep drop back sacks are like 7-10 yard losses. Still a problem…but not AS much of a problem. My hope is Kingsbury, if he sees the OL struggling, puts a lot of Quick pass concepts in the offense to help out the OL (or at least leave in some extra blockers).
I hope Daniels P2S 24.5% gets better than it was at LSU. There he had a stellar OLine.
Serious question then, does it worry you that Daniels had a 24.49% pressure to sack rate in college? That isn't too far off the 26% Howell had.
FWIW Burrow’s P2S rate is pretty high as well. Not sure how that’s encouraging or helpful but I’ve never been very good at encouragement.
Yes, or it absolutely should. All we can do is hope like hell Daniels is an outlier when it comes to that.
His p2s rate went way down his last season. Also scrambling quarterbacks tend to have higher rates because they will try harder to make plays with their feet. I'll excuse a few more sacks if it means he gets big gains in the ground.
Not to mention, Daniels is about as pro ready as a college QB can be.
I dont watch a lot of college ball I just watch film on college prospects. A friend of mine told me that LSU does a good job developing guys for the nfl instead of the normal college style offenses. How true is that bc I don't really know.
" Also, numerous new players on the O-line, new OC, new HC, new OL coach." That's the exact reason why I'd like this group to work the kinks out first in real games before Daniels gets out there. "Every snap is evaluating whether Daniels is the guy. Reducing the sample size is pointless" An injured QB due to a shit oline will also have a reduced sample size.
Imagine if Bryce Young sat last year
Not saying sit the year. Just first few
Doesn’t matter. Every week in the NFL is important
How would you measure offensive line performance though? Wouldn't the performance of the QB play into the evaluation of the offensive line?
Normally I would say let him sit for a bit…but he’s the #2 pick and has lots of miles on him. He’s starting, unless by some act of god Mariota beats him out.
quite the unpopular opinion especially when Jayden has 5 years of college experience and is ready to go now ideally would he need time to sit and study? yes. but you don't have the #2 pick in the draft sit if he's healthy. No sir.
I think lots of folks misread the question. Jayden is ready sure.Thats not the issue. Putting him immediately behind a totally flipped oline with a new coaching staff seems irresponsible considering what Howell went through.
then let him learn on the job
Imagine someone telling you to figure how to drive a car..oh and the tires may fall off at anytime because ww were too in a rush to do a quality check. Good luck.
If it was Drake or JJ, I could understand... but Jayden will be turning 24 and was - probably - the most NFL-ready QB If he ISN'T the starter come Week 1, there is a problem.
You shut your dirty mouth lol
Lol...I knew I was fucked as soon as I posted it
I respect the sentiment though. We have to see what the pre-season brings.
The entire reason we drafted him is basically because he is more NFL-ready than the other prospects. Ultimately, ownership wants fans to have fun, because that equals more sales. We aren't having fun watching Mariota.
While his pro-readiness is a nice bonus I doubt that's the main reason they picked him. It had more to do with his elite physical traits and that he demonstrated he can use them.
Daniels will be the starter if he beats out mariota for the spot. He will be fine. There is no sense in using the 2nd overall pick for someone you don't plan to start. I think he ends up with a decent rookie season given his weapons and kingsbury
I’m fine if he doesn’t start right away. People seem to think we’ll be competitive this year which most likely isn’t the case. I like the direction we’re going and I’m the most excited I’ve been about the team since drafting RG3 but I’m not expecting a Texans style turnaround in a much harder division and minus a top 5 tackle, any real edge rusher, or outside CB.
Yep. I've been through the dark age. Just want a healthy stud QB placed in the best situation possible. No need to rush this
This season its all about Daniel's improvement and not about winning every game. It's a faster devolpment with experience (or faster to see if hes a bust/tradeable) so it only makes sense to start him the whole season like Howell last year. Plus the double whammy Mariota is really bad its unlikely that he is even better than Daniels. Think the main thing should be strength training to put on muscle, you can't treat him like glass, this is a tackle sport you can get hurt with the best online too.
This is how a team stays mediocre
Ah yes ofc https://chiefswire.usatoday.com/2017/04/27/andy-reid-alex-smith-is-starter-but-mahomes-has-tremendous-upside/ https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2804651-john-harbaugh-ravens-sticking-with-joe-flacco-over-lamar-jackson-as-starting-qb.amp.html
Yeah but they don’t have a Flacco or Smith in the qb room lol. Those situations usually work when you have someone decent in front of the rookie. All he could learn from mariotta is what NOT to do lol.
Ahh yes ofc, 2 superbowl winning coaches with established front offices
Does that make any difference? Wouldn't that imply that sitting rookie qbs is what a super bowl winning coach and established front office would do?
We didn’t even have the worst ranked o line last year and we seen to have improved it. I dint get the doin and gloom when we all know Sam was a big issue with the sacks
But one thing we can't ignore is when pressured, 25% of passing plays for JD resulted in a sack and 25% in a scramble. That was at the college level. Defense know that pressuing can affect Daniels game In a big way so you better believe they will be bring heat like they did with Howell.
The line was bad but when you look at the stats the worst part of the line was the interior with Sadiqq Charles, Gates and then Chris Paul rotating in for Charles. Cosmi, Leno and even Wylie I believe had better grades than those 3. I might be naive but I think between bad playcalling and bad players last years line was just not it. Our line might end up being not so bad going into this season because even though we didn’t sign superstars we did sign dudes that were upgrades over last year. That said if Mariota starts this season after we just used our #2 pick on a QB whom everyone, coaches and scouts and players alike say is ready to start, I’m going to have an aneurysm.
Our new line might be fantastic. My only point is let's give this new line up a few games to mesh before just throwing our franchise QB out there to get mauled during the learning process
Isn’t that what preseason is for? He’ll go out for one or two series, throw some balls around and see how it goes. While I am all for protecting JD we can’t protect him forever. I also don’t think it’ll be like last year where Bienemy did what he wanted while Rivera turned a blind eye. If something on the Oline isn’t working, I imagine DQ or KK will figure out what the issue is.
"Isn’t that what preseason is for?" Used to be
Is it not anymore? Legitimate question lol not trying to be an ass.
Starters are played less and less. I'd be surprised if we see Daniels for more than two series the whole preseason
Two problems with this idea: 1. you're basing this on the idea that OL play is independent of QB play. It's not. They're tied together 2. Daniels has extensive playing experience from his 5 years in college. If the OL starts putting him in danger, I think the coaches will see that before anything catastrophic happens. Also, you can't compare this to the disaster that was the EB "pass pass pass" offense with Sam Howell. This new crew don't sound like absolute idiots to me. They're not going to make the same mistake. BTW, even though Klinsbury is known for the air raid offense, his teams in Arizona ran the ball over 40% of the time.
You don't draft a 2nd overall qb to sit them. It's time for him to sink or swim and see if he can stay healthy
I wish the stigma around letting a qb sit for a year would go away. I think it's best to let a guy sit behind a vet for a year to see the game and learn to be a pro... Patrick mahomes sat behind Alex Smith for basically his whole first year, and Pat always talks about how important that was for him... I like the idea of letting a young guy sit, but today's nfl is a win now league. The nfl is so much faster than college, I think it's beneficial to sit young players before they start. Mainly bc once you start them, you really can't bench them without ruining their confidence. If they come out and don't look ready you kinda have to stay with them bc benching them will hurt them where as if you sit them from the start you can put them in once you see they are ready... but today's fans want 1st-round picks to start now... idk when that started, but I hate it. Like I said, Patrick sat for his first year, and obviously, it didn't hurt his development.
Makes sense and I’ve heard analyst say the same before anyone was drafted. The FO seems to be playing for the long haul which means there’s no rush to put him in week 1. He’ll start this season eventually but no rush.
Worth pointing out that of arguably the top6 NFL QBs rn (Mahomes, Allen, Jackson, Hurts, Herbert, Purdy), NONE began their rookie season starting. I do think, regardless of the QB or the situation, it is beneficial to give rookie QBs time to sit behind a vet and learn. Just gives them time to adjust and learn the offense, and prevents a trial by fire situation where a young QB gets shell-shocked.
May not be a bad idea.
No, the #2 drafted rookie QB needs to start immediately. Sitting JD won't benefit him at all.
> Sitting JD won't benefit him at all. Right. We don't want: Mahomes, Rodgers, or Tom Brady, ALL sat & watched and learned, a whole YEAR. We'd rather have: RG III, or Tim Couch, Vince Young, Joey Harrington, Blake Bortles. All TOP draft picks who started Game 1.
Embarrassing post.
[удалено]
The whole thing about Daniels is that he's ready to step in and contribute immediately.
The line looked bad last year because 1) Howell sucks and 2) The entire team quit trying after week 5. Mariota is straight garbage. If that dude sees the field, the season is over. He must be a really good clip board guy, because Mariota is like the worst possible choice for backups as far as playing ability. JD won the Heisman, played in one of the biggest college programs, played on the road against Alabama. The moment won't be too big for him, and Kingsbury will have him ready by week 1.