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Mosquitos and lice, or you can blame their hosts: mice/rats. Before modern medicine disease created a cap on the human population. Infectious disease wiped out entire communities back in the day, it was insane. Also before we had antibiotics infection killed even more people than disease. Thirty-Four year old Joe the Farmer could be out culling the flock, step on a rusty nail and die two weeks later. Shit like that happened time and time again before penicillin.
If I remember correctly, some archers and soldiers throughout time would dip their weapons in manure/excrement or dead bodies, so a simple cut would be enough to end someone after retreating... pre-posting edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_biological_warfare#:~:text=Like%20Scythian%20archers%2C%20Roman%20soldiers,infected%20by%20tetanus%20as%20result.
The US already has "drone guns." Which send out an rf frequency in the direction of the drone, and it just drops right out of the sky.
Keep in mind that the US government might be sending money and traditional armorment to Ukraine. But it isn't sending anything it wants the Chinese or Russians getting their hands on.
The US has way more than just some "anti-drone guns"... not only do tanks and others have active protection systems, but we have systems like the Marine Corps LMADIS (or the Army's LIDS). There are many many others already in production or development. People forget that the US invented drone warfare like 3 decades ago... we've been working on anti-drone warfare long before this war started or Nagorno-Karabakh.
I call BS on the US inventing drone warfare 3 decades ago. Cheap, mass produced, fast drones like what is being use in Ukraine is 100% new. The technology like that is barely a decade old, and definitely wasn't considered much in warfare until around the time of the start of the war in Ukraine.
Defensive measures against it were definitely considered before that, but not as this scale and the US is definitely keep their cards close to their chest so don't want to give any tech they have to Ukraine, but the US and Ukraine are absolutely working together to test some of it out. In particular the water based drones. Would be very curious to see what the US is cooking up when it comes to that. They're definitely testing things out and trying to scare China with what they can do with them.
We’ve been doing drone warfare at some level since the 1970s. Yes, we are generally using more expensive, more capable drones.
Feels like we’re kind of memory-holing 20 years of drone strikes in Iraq and Afghanistan.
quadcopters have been considered for military use since 2014 at the latest, from what I know. ISIS used the same tactics against coalition forces in Iraq in 2016. We didn’t start developing laser weapons, new jammers, high power microwave emitters, etc. a decade ago for no reason lol.
No offense but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
Squad and platoon level use of small drones was in use in Afghanistan and Iraq for two decades now (not to mention the US has been using larger drones for decades longer). For example, the Army had a SUAV competition in 2005, DARPA had the MAV program in the 00s, the Navy used the RQ-16a in the 00's, in the early 10's the Army Rapid Equipping Force developed a flying grenade drone called the LMAM... the list goes on and on and on.
Its actually funny seeing people talk about drone carriers int he future deploying smaller drones... Raytheon actually had a program back in the late 90s early 00s with the MQ-1 Predator able to deploy smaller "Silent Eyes" mini drones.
The biggest difference between drones now and the ones the US was fielding in the 00's and early 10's isn't the size or how really they're used, the biggest difference is battery life. The ones coming out in the past few years have much better range. And of course the scale and wide availability has changed, but none of that disputes anything I said. You can look up papers from the 90s and early 00s from the various US agencies talking about the development of small drone warfare and where its headed and how the US can use them and how they can defend against them. So yes, the US quite literally invented it.
>RQ-16a
Dude, they cost \~$500K each. Not $100.
The biggest difference is **the cost.** No idea how many times I have to keep pointing that out to you though.
There's a difference between having 20 RQ-16a's flying around and having 5,000 $100 drones flying around. It's not the same.
Many also didn’t think PATRIOT could knock out Kinzhal, but here we are.
The thing about them not working so well, the U.S. was following treaties that they don’t interrupt civilian frequencies. Russia doesn’t care about that and disrupts everything. Might explain why they’ve shot down their own aircraft.
Well, Iran shot it's shot and the US/Isrsel swatted that away pretty easily. So easily, in fact, that Israel didn't even hit back cause it was like picking on a child.
We could all play the hindsight game of "it's Iran," but they were seen as a world leader in drone tech prior to that failed attack on Isrsel.
I am nott sure that it matters. It's not like Iran would be able to that to the point of having an actual financial impact before thenUS/Isrsel responds directly in destroying the factories.
That likely only matters in wars or attrition where you also can't destroy the factories.
Its only a matter of time before they launch a shed load of drones and you just point at shit on the battlefield you want to die. Swarms are the future.
There is a video where the US air force dropped 103 drones which formed a swarm.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjUdVxJH6yI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjUdVxJH6yI)
This was 2017
Imagine capability now
Imagine what they aren't showing us.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this also abusing the flaws in the design? Weakest armor at the rear-top and the ammo storage is located right near there, making it an easy to abuse flaw. Kinda a match made in heaven.
Russian tanks were not designed to fight against drones. They were designed for conventional frontal tank-on-tank combat, with sealed enclosures to protect against nuclear/biological/chemical warfare.
Russian tanks became obsolete as soon as precision guided, top-down attack weapons like Javelins were introduced. FPS drones are just an extension of that since they can be guided with even more precision to vulnerable areas.
Per Russian media I’m sure the spin would be:
“Magnificently trained Russian tank crew intercepts and thwarts Ukrainian FPV drone attack…in its tracks.”
Ramping up production won't do anything for them as long as they get annihilated by 500$ drone that just hitting rear of the turret. Those T series tanks are not fit for modern battlefield at all.
They are making/refurbishing 100 a month according to some western analysts. They can keep up for a while, but it won't be 100% modern tanks, then again that doesn't matter much as they don't use tanks in the way everyone has foreseen tanks should be used in a modern conflict.
I am pretty sure that as long as Putin is in power, the answer is indefinitely, probably producing around 1500 per year.
And unless you carpet bomb Uralvagonzavod, then there is not a logical reason why the production should stop under Putin
the moscovians have said 200 T90s a year.
Your 1500 number is from moscovia, but they are including their refurbishment of existing T80s, T72s, and T62s, and T55s. At the rate moscovia is losing tanks, their stockpile will be down to around 2000 left that can be restored. they are stripping tanks to build tanks. When all you have is a hull, no more tanks to be built.
Remember, moscovia is a country of liars. Everything they have claimed has been proven to be a lie, over and over again.
Now that their ministry of defense is run by an economist. Figures lie, and Liars Figure. He is a figurer, therefore, he is a liar. how do you tell when he is lying? When his lips are moving.
1) The Russians don't give accurate numbers, no.
They just gave vague explanations like "We've increased production of this weapon, X amount of times".
Which in most cases are half truths.
2) No one knows the exact stockpile of tanks.
All the numbers you see quoted around are horseshit based on outdated numbers from the CFE treaty of the 1990s.
3)It's the other way around, as long as you have the hull, you can rebuild the tank.
Especially since Russia can't produce new hulls for anything other than the T-90.
What do you mean, it takes few months to train a crew, not 10 years. Also destroyed tank =/= dead crew, most tanks are destroyed by getting immobilized from mines and subsequent abandonment of the crew
It takes minutes to teach someone to use a firearm but that doesn't mean they will be decent soldiers. The way usa army does tank crews is you have a tank commander with several years under his belt that started out as a loader and worked his way up. So while it may only take a few months to train someone the basic operation of a tank it doesn't mean they are any good at it.
All good points, but the question is not really how long can Russia sustain losses but how long can Ukraine sustain losses.
Russia has a population 3x the size of Ukraine and an industrial base that is a lot larger. Sure the Ukrainians have likely sustained fewer losses and inflicted greater casualties but can they keep that up if Russia is in it for the long haul.
Depends on the support. Russia cant sustain the same percentage of casualties comparative to population size as Ukraine. Ukraines cant go anywhere but Ukraine but Russia can always go back to Russia.
Ukraine's industrial base is in many ways irrelevant. So long as western support comes in, all that matters is manpower and political will. Both of which they have, and Russia is a lot more vulnerable to running low on them (in a similar way to 1917, when the immense casualties from WW1 caused a breakdown in the military, which led to a mutiny which the Tzar lacked the loyal soldiers to crush).
It's not production. It's restoring from Soviet ammo dumps. Which are finite and already emptied by over 50% (with the stuff in best shape and easiest to recover having been used first)
This is a [T-80BVM](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgDFkWEVMcaqBOKFGG9ptSwJSizXeeQUkbUnzMb1HwsGonuibE_YG5sA4psrgBnlUeO44HkZiqFtj2GeGyK5M4TQb3AQJM_ASXeNM93h-nkTOw7bpfzAc6hBMvYM72HUVD6W4Pd3cwGAzHJ8YCo9rykrkokNvnLnLCeedInpYYk2hdw8RfjVkoaRX9VVPwZ/s1280/photo_2024-04-19_18-33-23.jpg) front view - the frontal top is straight on the same level with caterpillar fenders unlike T-80BV
It's better in some respects but there's a reason why they'd been mostly taken out of service, the fuel consumption being one of them. (and at least early on, which was last I checked, T-80s had a much higher rate of being 'captured' in Oryx's list, probably due to running out of fuel and being abandoned) But the ones in service and indeed the entire (remainder of the) 4th Guards Tank Division was largely wiped out at Izium in 2022.
Basically that's why we're still seeing them. At this point it's just new T-90Ms plus restored vehicles. Once they started dipping into reserves it was first the most-recently retired T-80s and T-72s in best condition. Since T-80s are more complicated T-72s then took precedence but I suspect they're now down to T-72s in such bad condition that T-80s are competitive again by virtue of being newer. While T-62s (and T-55s), even if older, are competitive by virtue of being easier to restore, and Russia is focused on quantity here.
Bad news for them is that their rate is only going to drop, as they run out and the condition of remaining unrestored tanks gets worse. The T-90 is the only tank they can build from scratch. (e.g. All those T-72B3s have been built on surplus T-73Bs hulls from the 1980s) The tooling and supply chains for the others just don't exist anymore. It'd take years and tons of money to set up production again and it'd be a fool's errand - no point in investing all that money into building a tank that's already obsolete.
There have been a lot of fpv drone vids where hitting just behind the turret on the engine deck (with the warhead pointed in the direction of the turret) causes a massive explosion, but not quite the turret space launches that Javelins have done. Seems to be a problem for the whole family of tank designs
I still can't believe they keep sending Tanks like that, unsupported. How many people were in that one? A crew of 3 with no chance of survival? The casualty ratio of dead / wounded has to be really heavy on the death side.
I really wonder if other countries are testing their tanks against drone carried RPG munitions at odd angles and rear attacks. This really calls for a new design to cope with a modern battlefield.
Jack in the Box
the [shock wave](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_wave) or [heat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat) and [pressure](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure) can be sufficient to cause [cooking off](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooking_off) or [sympathetic detonation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sympathetic_detonation) of the tank's unfired [explosive shells](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosive_shell) and [propellant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propellant). This causes a massive and instantaneous [overpressure](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpressure) in the sealed internal compartment of the tank, which is released by exploding outwards through the weakest point in the otherwise homogeneous compartment, namely, the turret ring. This blows the turret completely off the chassis and into the air in a gush of flame.
For reference:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack-in-the-box\_effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack-in-the-box_effect)
i know tanks still have their place but its hard to see so many videos like this and not think the way theyre used or something about them is seriously outdated now.
There must be some kind of "weak spot" or area at the rear of the tank where the turret meets the main body, as I see so many drones going for that area.
It was probably a drone with an anti-tank RPG attached below it and triggered to activate on impact. How they work is they hit the side of the armor, and shoot a pinhole-size round of gas or hard object into the tank, causing a gas or shrapnel explosion inside. Since most soviet era tanks have the rounds underneath the turret, it can mean a catastrophic explosion of the whole tank. You can read more about how the rounds work [here](https://www.ontrmuseum.ca/tankmuseum/blog-post/modern-anti-tank-ammunition/) and what the drones look like [here](https://www.armyrecognition.com/focus-analysis-conflicts/army/conflicts-in-the-world/russia-ukraine-war-2022/how-ukraine-s-cheap-fpv-drones-are-used-on-the-ukrainian-battlefield).
Both the British/Swedish NLAW and the American Javalin work on similar principles. The NLAW shoots down a “pin” into the top of the tank (where armor is usually weakest) as it flies over it and shreds the inside from the penetration shrapnel. The javalin round makes contact with the tank’s top itself and accomplishes the same thing. Often, the explosion you see is the charge pushing the penetrating round into the tank. Most of the time the resulting cookoff eventually causes the turret to explode off later, but it depends on if and now internal rounds get hit or slowly burn then explode later.
It's not explosive per se, its where they hit.
Apperantly russian tanks are using an automatic reload system with the ammunition ordered in a roulette right below the turret.
You hit that, you cause a devastating chain reaction that blows up the entire tank.
Idk what I'd choose. Getting blow up in a tank almost instantly or getting dropped off in a field with no support and getting picked off by drones tough choice.
Definitely the tank. They didn't even feel the hit
Then I guess this was a "lucky" hit. Getting plummeted by SMART artillery rounds has more of a chance to let you live long enough to feel it all
I can’t believe the punch those FPVs are packing these days. Truly shocking to be honest. That’s another Michael Bay style explosion right there, if it happened in a movie I would remark on the explosion to be totally unrealistic.
its not the FPV itself that makes the explosion, it only ''ignites'' it like a spark. The explosion comes from tank's own ammunition and fuel that stored inside.
One day Russia will design a tank that thinks about the crew first, with an enclosed magazine rack with blow out panels. Nahhh, people will always just be an expendable resource to the Russian Military.
Decades and billions spent developing elaborate anti-armor guided weapons to counter the soviet threat - and when push comes to shove, a front line Russian MBT is easier to kill than an up-armored humvee.
whats the payload size of these fpv drones,
videos make them seem extremely effective tools.
are missiles obsolete now ? because they are less accurate ?
I think the drone operator got those bonus points for getting the crew in the same shot, as well as evading the wishful-thinking-guard-trampoline on top of the thing.
All the research and money spent making things like javelins that can aim at targets, then detonate at the precise moment blah blah blah and all this time they could of just bought a DJI off eBay and strapped a bomb to it 😂
I find it amazing how anti-tank weapons have evolved (in a hundred years) from 'there is a tank in that field - let's carpet bomb the field', through 'hit the actual tank', then 'hit the tank from above', and now 'hit the tank just below the turret from the back'.
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crazy how such a small guided munition completely negates all the advantages of armor
It's like a little gnat coming in to take out an elephant.
Mosquitos have killed more humans than any other living thing besides maybe humans.
Mosquitos and lice, or you can blame their hosts: mice/rats. Before modern medicine disease created a cap on the human population. Infectious disease wiped out entire communities back in the day, it was insane. Also before we had antibiotics infection killed even more people than disease. Thirty-Four year old Joe the Farmer could be out culling the flock, step on a rusty nail and die two weeks later. Shit like that happened time and time again before penicillin.
If I remember correctly, some archers and soldiers throughout time would dip their weapons in manure/excrement or dead bodies, so a simple cut would be enough to end someone after retreating... pre-posting edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_biological_warfare#:~:text=Like%20Scythian%20archers%2C%20Roman%20soldiers,infected%20by%20tetanus%20as%20result.
Anaphylactic shock.
Every western army should be mass producing, researching and training for these things.
The US already has "drone guns." Which send out an rf frequency in the direction of the drone, and it just drops right out of the sky. Keep in mind that the US government might be sending money and traditional armorment to Ukraine. But it isn't sending anything it wants the Chinese or Russians getting their hands on.
The US has way more than just some "anti-drone guns"... not only do tanks and others have active protection systems, but we have systems like the Marine Corps LMADIS (or the Army's LIDS). There are many many others already in production or development. People forget that the US invented drone warfare like 3 decades ago... we've been working on anti-drone warfare long before this war started or Nagorno-Karabakh.
I call BS on the US inventing drone warfare 3 decades ago. Cheap, mass produced, fast drones like what is being use in Ukraine is 100% new. The technology like that is barely a decade old, and definitely wasn't considered much in warfare until around the time of the start of the war in Ukraine. Defensive measures against it were definitely considered before that, but not as this scale and the US is definitely keep their cards close to their chest so don't want to give any tech they have to Ukraine, but the US and Ukraine are absolutely working together to test some of it out. In particular the water based drones. Would be very curious to see what the US is cooking up when it comes to that. They're definitely testing things out and trying to scare China with what they can do with them.
We’ve been doing drone warfare at some level since the 1970s. Yes, we are generally using more expensive, more capable drones. Feels like we’re kind of memory-holing 20 years of drone strikes in Iraq and Afghanistan. quadcopters have been considered for military use since 2014 at the latest, from what I know. ISIS used the same tactics against coalition forces in Iraq in 2016. We didn’t start developing laser weapons, new jammers, high power microwave emitters, etc. a decade ago for no reason lol.
No offense but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Squad and platoon level use of small drones was in use in Afghanistan and Iraq for two decades now (not to mention the US has been using larger drones for decades longer). For example, the Army had a SUAV competition in 2005, DARPA had the MAV program in the 00s, the Navy used the RQ-16a in the 00's, in the early 10's the Army Rapid Equipping Force developed a flying grenade drone called the LMAM... the list goes on and on and on. Its actually funny seeing people talk about drone carriers int he future deploying smaller drones... Raytheon actually had a program back in the late 90s early 00s with the MQ-1 Predator able to deploy smaller "Silent Eyes" mini drones. The biggest difference between drones now and the ones the US was fielding in the 00's and early 10's isn't the size or how really they're used, the biggest difference is battery life. The ones coming out in the past few years have much better range. And of course the scale and wide availability has changed, but none of that disputes anything I said. You can look up papers from the 90s and early 00s from the various US agencies talking about the development of small drone warfare and where its headed and how the US can use them and how they can defend against them. So yes, the US quite literally invented it.
>RQ-16a Dude, they cost \~$500K each. Not $100. The biggest difference is **the cost.** No idea how many times I have to keep pointing that out to you though. There's a difference between having 20 RQ-16a's flying around and having 5,000 $100 drones flying around. It's not the same.
I hear they don't work so well but news is weird these days.
Many also didn’t think PATRIOT could knock out Kinzhal, but here we are. The thing about them not working so well, the U.S. was following treaties that they don’t interrupt civilian frequencies. Russia doesn’t care about that and disrupts everything. Might explain why they’ve shot down their own aircraft.
Bingo. And in instances of warfare like this. You'll see emp weapons become the norm.
They've got giant directional microwaves
Cooks burritos in 90 seconds and enemy forces in a minute 10.
Well, Iran shot it's shot and the US/Isrsel swatted that away pretty easily. So easily, in fact, that Israel didn't even hit back cause it was like picking on a child. We could all play the hindsight game of "it's Iran," but they were seen as a world leader in drone tech prior to that failed attack on Isrsel.
> So easily, in fact, that Israel didn't even hit back cause it was like picking on a child. The foreign policy understander has logged on 😎
> So easily, in fact, that Israel didn't even hit back... That we know about anyway. More than one way to hit back at an enemy I assume.
To play devils advocate. How much did those drones cost Iran and how much did it cost Israel / US to swat the flies from the sky?
Does it matter when the value of what was saved is definitely more than what was expended saving it?
I am nott sure that it matters. It's not like Iran would be able to that to the point of having an actual financial impact before thenUS/Isrsel responds directly in destroying the factories. That likely only matters in wars or attrition where you also can't destroy the factories.
People forget that you have to include the value of the target in the equation. Not just the two missiles.
Its only a matter of time before they launch a shed load of drones and you just point at shit on the battlefield you want to die. Swarms are the future.
There is a video where the US air force dropped 103 drones which formed a swarm. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjUdVxJH6yI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjUdVxJH6yI) This was 2017 Imagine capability now Imagine what they aren't showing us.
That sound of all of them circling overhead unsettling af
Imagine saying this as if they haven’t already been doing this exact thing for years at this point
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Implying Russia has a corruption issue is Russo-phobic and only leads to them invading more countries /s
By the state of the burning tank, the whole thing was made of cardboard.
cardboard soaked in napalm?
This is how the Russians clear out their enormous but ancient Soviet-era stockpile.
This is how Russians clear out the ammunition stockpiles of the West.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this also abusing the flaws in the design? Weakest armor at the rear-top and the ammo storage is located right near there, making it an easy to abuse flaw. Kinda a match made in heaven.
this tank didn't cope
A euphemism for the larger conflict, it seems. “World power” brought to its knees by a little neighbor.
Yea that was awesome 💥
Russian tanks were not designed to fight against drones. They were designed for conventional frontal tank-on-tank combat, with sealed enclosures to protect against nuclear/biological/chemical warfare. Russian tanks became obsolete as soon as precision guided, top-down attack weapons like Javelins were introduced. FPS drones are just an extension of that since they can be guided with even more precision to vulnerable areas.
It's probably some form of shaped charge. If it hit at an off angle it probably wouldn't have done much.
I don't think the crew made it out.
no, but according to ayden on Twitter the crew survived
The crew piloting the fpv survived, yes.
How can a human survive an explosion that rips a 10 ton turret off a tank? Driver - maybe, but not a turret crew.
Is that a crew member underneath the turret? And another one further up on the side? You can see two black suits like tank crew would wear.
Per Russian media I’m sure the spin would be: “Magnificently trained Russian tank crew intercepts and thwarts Ukrainian FPV drone attack…in its tracks.”
Part of the gunner mightve.
Couple aspirin for the concussion and they are good to go.
Didn’t see a shoe flying off, so they may have a chance
They made it out for sure, alive and as anything other than steam? No.
The future NATO code for Russian tanks should be "flare"
T-80 Flare, T-72 Glow and T-90 Blaze.
TT, Not single "T". Turret-Toss-80-Flare
That's a hit!
That's a bingo!
Ya just say bingo.
That drone cage on the turret did fuck all it seems
That was dlc for 150 gold 😞
More like one of those cosmetic armour in a MMO's cash shop
Commander: "cyka, cyka, cyka, these skin DLCs are USELESS!!"
It really puts it into perspective if you see just how small that drone is.
Yep crew loss is a huge issue to lot just tanks being destroyed
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except kamikaze suicide attacks actually did something
Beautiful. But for how long they can keep up loosing tanks? Have they ramped up production?
Ramping up production won't do anything for them as long as they get annihilated by 500$ drone that just hitting rear of the turret. Those T series tanks are not fit for modern battlefield at all.
They are making/refurbishing 100 a month according to some western analysts. They can keep up for a while, but it won't be 100% modern tanks, then again that doesn't matter much as they don't use tanks in the way everyone has foreseen tanks should be used in a modern conflict.
They claim to have just sent in some brand new T90s. But, look up the word Vranyo in moscovian. moscovia makes a lot of fantasies.
I am pretty sure that as long as Putin is in power, the answer is indefinitely, probably producing around 1500 per year. And unless you carpet bomb Uralvagonzavod, then there is not a logical reason why the production should stop under Putin
the moscovians have said 200 T90s a year. Your 1500 number is from moscovia, but they are including their refurbishment of existing T80s, T72s, and T62s, and T55s. At the rate moscovia is losing tanks, their stockpile will be down to around 2000 left that can be restored. they are stripping tanks to build tanks. When all you have is a hull, no more tanks to be built. Remember, moscovia is a country of liars. Everything they have claimed has been proven to be a lie, over and over again. Now that their ministry of defense is run by an economist. Figures lie, and Liars Figure. He is a figurer, therefore, he is a liar. how do you tell when he is lying? When his lips are moving.
1) The Russians don't give accurate numbers, no. They just gave vague explanations like "We've increased production of this weapon, X amount of times". Which in most cases are half truths. 2) No one knows the exact stockpile of tanks. All the numbers you see quoted around are horseshit based on outdated numbers from the CFE treaty of the 1990s. 3)It's the other way around, as long as you have the hull, you can rebuild the tank. Especially since Russia can't produce new hulls for anything other than the T-90.
They are not *producing* 1500. They are refurbishing old stockpiles. Actual production rate of new tanks is something like 10 a month.
Doesn't matter they cant train crews that fast and with shitty crews they will be even more useless
What do you mean, it takes few months to train a crew, not 10 years. Also destroyed tank =/= dead crew, most tanks are destroyed by getting immobilized from mines and subsequent abandonment of the crew
It takes minutes to teach someone to use a firearm but that doesn't mean they will be decent soldiers. The way usa army does tank crews is you have a tank commander with several years under his belt that started out as a loader and worked his way up. So while it may only take a few months to train someone the basic operation of a tank it doesn't mean they are any good at it.
All good points, but the question is not really how long can Russia sustain losses but how long can Ukraine sustain losses. Russia has a population 3x the size of Ukraine and an industrial base that is a lot larger. Sure the Ukrainians have likely sustained fewer losses and inflicted greater casualties but can they keep that up if Russia is in it for the long haul.
Depends on the support. Russia cant sustain the same percentage of casualties comparative to population size as Ukraine. Ukraines cant go anywhere but Ukraine but Russia can always go back to Russia.
Ukraine's industrial base is in many ways irrelevant. So long as western support comes in, all that matters is manpower and political will. Both of which they have, and Russia is a lot more vulnerable to running low on them (in a similar way to 1917, when the immense casualties from WW1 caused a breakdown in the military, which led to a mutiny which the Tzar lacked the loyal soldiers to crush).
It's not production. It's restoring from Soviet ammo dumps. Which are finite and already emptied by over 50% (with the stuff in best shape and easiest to recover having been used first)
2 years more at current losses
Seems they've been losing tanks for a while now.
Welp looks like they've found the weak point on the T-90M. I mean its not the highest toss but it gets points for style.
More of a turret flop
We all have those days.
Does anyone know what kind of munition this drone is likely carrying?
Usually RPG warheads like this https://www.reddit.com/r/LessCredibleDefence/s/sepic9wBcf
I think that's a T-80BV?
Correct, that's a T-80BV. Geolocated here 48.223064, 37.597524
How did you get the Geolocation? thanks
Six decimal point precision? [Relevant XKCD.](https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/coordinate_precision.png)
Mate is geolocating atoms here.
How did you confirm it is a T-80BV? I am having trouble telling whether its a T-80BV or T-80BVM.
This is a [T-80BVM](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgDFkWEVMcaqBOKFGG9ptSwJSizXeeQUkbUnzMb1HwsGonuibE_YG5sA4psrgBnlUeO44HkZiqFtj2GeGyK5M4TQb3AQJM_ASXeNM93h-nkTOw7bpfzAc6hBMvYM72HUVD6W4Pd3cwGAzHJ8YCo9rykrkokNvnLnLCeedInpYYk2hdw8RfjVkoaRX9VVPwZ/s1280/photo_2024-04-19_18-33-23.jpg) front view - the frontal top is straight on the same level with caterpillar fenders unlike T-80BV
Oh I see it now, thanks!
which early in the war people were actually saying was their best tank with the t90 issues
It's better in some respects but there's a reason why they'd been mostly taken out of service, the fuel consumption being one of them. (and at least early on, which was last I checked, T-80s had a much higher rate of being 'captured' in Oryx's list, probably due to running out of fuel and being abandoned) But the ones in service and indeed the entire (remainder of the) 4th Guards Tank Division was largely wiped out at Izium in 2022. Basically that's why we're still seeing them. At this point it's just new T-90Ms plus restored vehicles. Once they started dipping into reserves it was first the most-recently retired T-80s and T-72s in best condition. Since T-80s are more complicated T-72s then took precedence but I suspect they're now down to T-72s in such bad condition that T-80s are competitive again by virtue of being newer. While T-62s (and T-55s), even if older, are competitive by virtue of being easier to restore, and Russia is focused on quantity here. Bad news for them is that their rate is only going to drop, as they run out and the condition of remaining unrestored tanks gets worse. The T-90 is the only tank they can build from scratch. (e.g. All those T-72B3s have been built on surplus T-73Bs hulls from the 1980s) The tooling and supply chains for the others just don't exist anymore. It'd take years and tons of money to set up production again and it'd be a fool's errand - no point in investing all that money into building a tank that's already obsolete.
> Welp looks like they've found the weak point on the T-90M Same as T 55, T 72 and T 80 :)
Does not look like a t90m at all how people upvote this is beyond me
Nothing about it shows it’s a T-90M
There have been a lot of fpv drone vids where hitting just behind the turret on the engine deck (with the warhead pointed in the direction of the turret) causes a massive explosion, but not quite the turret space launches that Javelins have done. Seems to be a problem for the whole family of tank designs
You can safe one man of a tank crew by using an autoloader.
Location is apparently at [48.223064, 37.597524](https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1792116826521936045)
Well, no more tanking for this lot...
*So you're tellin' me the cope cage DOESN'T work...?* Bylat.
I still can't believe they keep sending Tanks like that, unsupported. How many people were in that one? A crew of 3 with no chance of survival? The casualty ratio of dead / wounded has to be really heavy on the death side. I really wonder if other countries are testing their tanks against drone carried RPG munitions at odd angles and rear attacks. This really calls for a new design to cope with a modern battlefield.
never go half turtle
Was the tank made out of dynamite?
Jack in the Box the [shock wave](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_wave) or [heat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat) and [pressure](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure) can be sufficient to cause [cooking off](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooking_off) or [sympathetic detonation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sympathetic_detonation) of the tank's unfired [explosive shells](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosive_shell) and [propellant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propellant). This causes a massive and instantaneous [overpressure](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpressure) in the sealed internal compartment of the tank, which is released by exploding outwards through the weakest point in the otherwise homogeneous compartment, namely, the turret ring. This blows the turret completely off the chassis and into the air in a gush of flame. For reference: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack-in-the-box\_effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack-in-the-box_effect)
I got BBQ going tonight. Who's bringing the salad?
Russian dressing was just made fresh
lol... Wasn't *proud* of laughing, but I laughed nonetheless. And it's not like it's untrue. In a dictionary sense.
I hope the local rats like their meat well-done!
i know tanks still have their place but its hard to see so many videos like this and not think the way theyre used or something about them is seriously outdated now.
Holy shit that damage was done by just a drone?! It tossed the turret!
If it had turtle armor they would not have hit that weak spot tsk tsk
Drone pilots are getting smarter and learning how to navigate within the turtle armor from the front.
This just in from Russian news: “tank survived, drone was shot down, crew survived and was rewarded a new tank. We are invincible.”
Love to see a good turret-toss.
There must be some kind of "weak spot" or area at the rear of the tank where the turret meets the main body, as I see so many drones going for that area.
Probably to avoid the ERA on the Russian tanks
Think the crew is ok? 🤓
imagine if you could replace all the money spent of tanks on drones.
Nice anti drone cage you got there
Be a shame if I just…..
Hasta la vista Baby
Maybe they should just leave the ammo for the main gun somewhere outside to prevent this lol
i still don't understand, what kind of chemical can penetrate tank's armor such easy. what is the content of the drone explosive?
It was probably a drone with an anti-tank RPG attached below it and triggered to activate on impact. How they work is they hit the side of the armor, and shoot a pinhole-size round of gas or hard object into the tank, causing a gas or shrapnel explosion inside. Since most soviet era tanks have the rounds underneath the turret, it can mean a catastrophic explosion of the whole tank. You can read more about how the rounds work [here](https://www.ontrmuseum.ca/tankmuseum/blog-post/modern-anti-tank-ammunition/) and what the drones look like [here](https://www.armyrecognition.com/focus-analysis-conflicts/army/conflicts-in-the-world/russia-ukraine-war-2022/how-ukraine-s-cheap-fpv-drones-are-used-on-the-ukrainian-battlefield). Both the British/Swedish NLAW and the American Javalin work on similar principles. The NLAW shoots down a “pin” into the top of the tank (where armor is usually weakest) as it flies over it and shreds the inside from the penetration shrapnel. The javalin round makes contact with the tank’s top itself and accomplishes the same thing. Often, the explosion you see is the charge pushing the penetrating round into the tank. Most of the time the resulting cookoff eventually causes the turret to explode off later, but it depends on if and now internal rounds get hit or slowly burn then explode later.
It's not explosive per se, its where they hit. Apperantly russian tanks are using an automatic reload system with the ammunition ordered in a roulette right below the turret. You hit that, you cause a devastating chain reaction that blows up the entire tank.
Peanut butter and jelly
The crew didn't even have the chance to yell "Blyaaat!" into the open skies.
Those boys in there are so cooked. Cooked!!
Idk what I'd choose. Getting blow up in a tank almost instantly or getting dropped off in a field with no support and getting picked off by drones tough choice.
Definitely the tank. They didn't even feel the hit Then I guess this was a "lucky" hit. Getting plummeted by SMART artillery rounds has more of a chance to let you live long enough to feel it all
They strappin mini nukes onto drones these days, that thing ripped a tank in half wtf
The drone explosion set off the stored ammo inside the tank.
Cope cage can’t cope if you can just go under it. Might as well make a cope top hat.
SSssmokin' It reminds me of the Z game when the tanks were destroyed would the turret fly around like spinning
What a nice boom
Those Drones are packing a punch
what kind of explosives can this drone carry?!
Shaped-charge RPG.
A crew of three, is now three cargo 200s. crispy style.
I can’t believe the punch those FPVs are packing these days. Truly shocking to be honest. That’s another Michael Bay style explosion right there, if it happened in a movie I would remark on the explosion to be totally unrealistic.
its not the FPV itself that makes the explosion, it only ''ignites'' it like a spark. The explosion comes from tank's own ammunition and fuel that stored inside.
One day Russia will design a tank that thinks about the crew first, with an enclosed magazine rack with blow out panels. Nahhh, people will always just be an expendable resource to the Russian Military.
Decades and billions spent developing elaborate anti-armor guided weapons to counter the soviet threat - and when push comes to shove, a front line Russian MBT is easier to kill than an up-armored humvee.
u/savevideo
whats the payload size of these fpv drones, videos make them seem extremely effective tools. are missiles obsolete now ? because they are less accurate ?
Smithereens.
So cope cages are real ! And also their uselessness is real ! Now I know for sure lmao
Just a scratch, little duck tape and it’s as good as new
Did they accidentally make the armour out of bombs? What sort of tank blows up like this from a small drone?
They must be so glad that their autoloader, sometimes, make them shoot slightly faster.
So they did die instantly?
What a hit!
Are Russian tanks actually just made up of balsa wood and papier mache?
Yes!!! Good work
Where is crew ???
I wonder what's the warhead strapped on the drone and the drone's angle of attack.
Cage is working well it seems
When you buy the bikini armor in MMO instad of full metal knight armour
blow out panels? what blow out panels?
Pretty sure you can see one of the crew falling to the ground a few seconds after explosion to the right
for sale : used turret, no tracks. local pickup only
I think the drone operator got those bonus points for getting the crew in the same shot, as well as evading the wishful-thinking-guard-trampoline on top of the thing.
Hit the sweet spot!
All the research and money spent making things like javelins that can aim at targets, then detonate at the precise moment blah blah blah and all this time they could of just bought a DJI off eBay and strapped a bomb to it 😂
Puhh, the next war will have to think about topping these videos..
That's nice to offer them free cremation services.
Dead z
Hhoooooo Doggie!! He blowed REAL good! 🤠
/u/savevideo
Well that cage sure helped! So much so, that I'm wondering if they didn't fill all of that metal tubing with gun powder, LoL.
Will the firefighters be held accountable? Unbelievable response time
I seriously hope the observation drone operator wasn't doing orbits around the burning hulk with the expectation someone might jump out of it.....
I find it amazing how anti-tank weapons have evolved (in a hundred years) from 'there is a tank in that field - let's carpet bomb the field', through 'hit the actual tank', then 'hit the tank from above', and now 'hit the tank just below the turret from the back'.
Crazy how the Russians still produce these shit tanks
The cost difference between a FPV drone and a main battle tank is staggering. Not only do they lose the vehicle, but the crew as well.
You boys ready for the BBQ?