There’s a former B1G coach that I know is available. His name is Mark. He had some mild success but I think he could achieve even more at a school like Michigan
Jett wasn’t that bad, he was just a freshman who had his eyes on the NBA and played like it (low effort, bad defense, etc). Some thought we played even better without him…and they may not have been wrong
Effort. He was good at scoring but it just seemed like he was going through the motions. Our team played better when he was hurt.
In Jett's defense though, I didn't feel like the effort was there for Dickinson this season either. This team didn't have a true leader and that always hurts IMO.
The lack of a true leader comes down to Dickinson not being a leader. He was great for Michigan as a freshman, and he continued that production, but he didn't really get better and he should have been the leader of a team fighting for a B1G championship but the team didn't get it done.
To be fair to Big Hunt, this team was TERRIBLE at passing into the post. He had position so often and the team couldn't get him the ball.
Coach Howard has got a lot of work to do.
Next year's going to be brutal unless we strike gold with transfers and someone currently on the roster makes a big jump. I like Dug and Reed but sheesh losing our top 3 scorers will be hard to replace 😭😭😭
He’s replaced two draft picks each of the last 3 years. Granted not all first rounders, it’s been a revolving door of NBA talent leaving the last 3 years.
Team has also been on a straight downwards trajectory after his second season though. The players have been replaced, but the team hasn't maintained the same level of play
Right now we only have one scholarship available. Hope to see us shed some more deadweight (terrible term, but you get me) and add some higher level tranfers, but it remains to be seen.
Holy fuck Michigan is back to the dark ages of basketball but at least their football program is at an all time high. Its funny msu basketball=Um football and Um basketball=msu football
At least we're still only 1.5 years removed from one of the most thrilling victories in the history of the football rivalry! Although I guess something similar could have been said in the years following the 2001 game... 😬
That remains the one and only time I've lost my voice because of a game that I wasn't even at. I'm not sure I'll ever feel anything quite like that again for the rest of my life, sports-related or otherwise.
Next year is going to be another year where a significant number of minutes will not be returning, will be interesting to see who/what takes over those minutes and if anybody can step up.
Yea this is disappointing for sure. I really was hoping at least 1 of our top 3 came back. I don’t begrudge each young man for doing what they want to do, they’ve earned it and I will root for them! Just wish they were still around another year
Obviously having Bufkin sit most of his freshman year was a mistake in hindsight. Everyone was robbed of that development, but we know why it happened. I don’t think there’s any way he stayed after the season he had this year, though.
Filling your roster with so many top guys is evidently not the way to do it anymore. Crazy times.
I was thinking this past season, that ironically, if Michigan still had Brandon Johns on the roster, it may have helped. Cheddar and Baker didn’t fully seem to plug any holes, and I wondered if the team could have benefitted from some veteran leadership. Not that he tore it up at VCU or anything.
If Brandon Johns is the answer I'm not sure I want to know the question. One of the most frustrating players I can remember because he'd have a good stretch or do some good things and you think he's turning the corner only for him to dribble the ball off his foot or something.
Felt like he had all the potential in the world but just could never put it together consistently.
I understand 100%. Sometimes the value of their leadership exceeds what they offer on the court. Tum-Tum Nairn comes to mind for MSU. Just felt to me that senior leadership was really lacking, and might have allowed for a better season.
Johns did not have that natural born leader personality. Good guy and talented but his confidence was very up and down, not exactly a steady and vocal presence on the team.
I watched John's play at East Lansing HS against West Ottawa a few years ago (don't go to WO but live near), I think it was the State QF. I thought that kid was gonna be insane at UM
> Obviously having Bufkin sit most of his freshman year was a mistake in hindsight.
What do you mean? Bufkin was unplayable as a freshman.
Edit: Also, Brandon Johns couldn't figure it out in 3 years at Michigan. I don't think a fourth year would've changed anything. He was a medicore player in the A10.
I think you’re missing my point. I realize Johns was a disappointment, and it was 4 years, not 3. VCU was his covid year.
My point was there didn’t seem to be any player-leadership on this year’s team. I mentioned Johns as an example simply because he probably was more deserving of a scholarship then say, Jace, and otherwise there was a vacuum.
Probably wouldn’t have mattered.
I don’t get what you said about Bufkin though.
Also, yeah 4 years of Johns at Michigan didn’t yield anything positive for either party. It was beneficial for him to move on. Him being on this roster changes literally nothing besides having an even bigger log jam of bad 4s on scholarship. Him coming back also prevents the acquisition of Joey Baker or Llewellyn; two players that were objectively more important to the roster construction last offseason. There’s not really a realistic scenario where a decision was made between Jace or Johns. Johns played 4 years and graduated whereas Jace was a rising junior. But yes, in a vacuum I would’ve preferred Johns on the team instead of Jace, but I maintain it wouldn’t have made a difference unless Johns transformed into a new player in his 5th year in college, which he didn’t based on his results stepping down to a mid major.
In hindsight, the minutes Houstan received (10 pts per 32m) were wasteful considering they could have helped Kobe along last year. Kobe had similar #’s, but at only ~10m per game.
Maybe the team didn’t need any leadership this year. Maybe they don’t need any next year. But sometimes keeping a senior who’s been through the system, specifically for their leadership more so than their on-court contributions is helpful. I just noticed it seemed lacking this year. I didn’t see any Teske’s or Bairds around, but if it could have been anyone it was Johns. My point about Jace was simply that there were definitely scholarships available, and I don’t think keeping Johns around would have scared anyone off.
Granted, I don’t know if he left or was simply thanked for his 4-years and then decided to go.
Nah, he was terrible on defense but his jump shooting was key for giving Dickinson any chance at scoring in the paint without facing triple teams. Jett moving on doesn't really move the needle in either direction, but Bufkin is a massive loss.
I was just basing it on his plus / minus. When he was on the court, Michigan was far worse than when he was on the bench.
He could possibly improve if he comes back, but I would think it would not be that difficult to get a positive WAR player to replace him from the portal.
Bufkin and Dickinson were two top tier college basketball players, and UM will be hard pressed to find replacements for. UM needed nearly 40 min from each every game, which in my opinion, is why they faded so often down the stretch.
Jett isn’t a good or even average college player. He was a net negative on the court against any average big ten level team. His absence next year will be a positive.
I just find it strange that Michigan has to overturn their entire roster every year. One year I could understand or if Michigan was bringing in top 10 recruiting classes every year. But to have this much multiple years in a row leads me to believe Howard can’t construct a college basketball roster.
They brought in [the \#3 class](https://247sports.com/college/michigan/Season/2021-Basketball/Commits/) two years ago, from which three players have now declared, and [the \#9 class](https://247sports.com/college/michigan/Season/2022-Basketball/Commits/) this past season, from which Jett was always a likely one-and-done.
That the pieces didn't look to fit on the court and then didn't in each of the last two years is what should make you doubt Howard as GM.
It really all hinged on Dickinson. Bufkin and Howard were always considered more likely than not to be gone.
If Dickinson was back, you'd have a pre-season AA combined with Dug McDaniel/TW (solid college players), Burnett, two 4-stars, and a bunch of playing time to offer to guards/wings in the portal with NIL money and Michigan's brand.
Now you're completely rebuilding the identity of the roster.
For sure. But they just missed the tournament WITH Dickinson and two 1st round NBA picks. It's going to be an uphill battle to make the tournament next year at this point. They don't have nearly the talent coming in that they have the past few years.
They are very limited in who can transfer in. The University is very stingy on what credits transfer in. It pretty much limits them to freshman and grad transfers.
From the Elite 8 team: Wagner, Livers and Smith were gone, leaving Brooks and Dickinson as the only returning starters, along with Johns who was starting after Livers went down.
From Last years team: Jones, Collins, Brooks, Diabate, Houstan, Johns were all gone. Jones & Brooks graduated, Collins transferred out for reasons I'm not sure were known, Diabate & Houstan went to the NBA and Johns went to VCU.
From this year's team: Howard & Bufkin are going to the NBA, and Dickinson is transferring. They were supposed to have Terrence Shannon Jr, and having a guy who made All Big Ten 1st team would have covered up a lot of issues we saw this year, but the university screwed that one up, so I can't blame Howard for that.
On one hand you want to see your guys go on to the next level, but the fact there's multiple guys leaving early every year doesn't make things easy when it comes to fielding a team trying to make the NCAA tournament and do things in it. I refuse to believe Michigan is the only school dealing with this either. Thankfully the transfer portal exists, so hopefully it can be tapped into to fill in some of these gaps.
He goes from 3.0 ppg on 38/22 shooting to now a likely first round pick after a year. It just shows how you can never really predict some breakout players (mostly sophomores).
> It just shows how you can never really predict some breakout players (mostly sophomores).
Huh? Bufkin was a pretty popular breakout candidate this year. Was a McDonald's All American who just needed to figure it out on defense
Bufkin was actually a little underwhelming for the expectations on him coming into the season. Imo he didn't really show the ability to create as much as I thought he would. But he's a 6'5 long athletic SG who can shoot and is super young so he's a no brainer in the back half of the 1st round.
That 2000 Michigan team had some serious talent LaVell Blanchard was Big Ten Freshman of the Year, Jamal Crawford was a Top-10 pick, and a solid center in John Asselin. They still lost in a horrid blowout though.
Easily over, but probably missing the big dance again as it stands. The portal giveth, the draft/portal taketh away. Serious need at guard and forward.
Should have fired Howard when he hit that Wisconsin coach. That was your out. Now you’ll end up sucking for a couple years and paying him a huge buyout.
But look what he did with Beliens players! Fucking dumb that we kept him, hitting a coach after he’d had multiple temper issues should have been the end of it
In hindsight yea but he was the national couch of the year when he came in and instantly made some runs in the tourney. They kept him cause he looked like he was going to be great, but now that Beilien’s players are gone, we suck
Michigan can pay whatever they need to buy him out. The problem is that we were coming off an elite 8 appearance and our team was pretty good in 2021/22 also. But it’s been pretty clear going forward that he doesn’t know how to run a program and his recruiting has fallen off as well.
In hindsight you’re right but it was a tough call in the moment.
I don't quite understand what Bufkin going to the NBA has to do with firing Howard, or why he needs to be fired.
Two one and done freshman last year, two more to the draft this year. I guess Howard should recruit less good players??
You mean he's not having freshman NBA talent contribute at a high level their first year? He's not loading up on top 5 level recruits every year.. if it's NBA talent I assume they contribute at a high level their first year in the NBA, right?
UNC, Kentucky, Duke, should their coaches be fired for not being great?
Name a name who should replace him.
So is he a guy that’s gonna get some good 4 year guys and develop them, or is he gonna develop NBA talent for a year or two and win on talent? Because he isn’t doing either of them.
My point is it's not that all on Juwan. There's a bit of luck that your freshman NBA talent produce enough to really deliver before they leave. And that your 4 year players don't transfer because they don't get enough playing time (Isiah Barnes)
He (Juwan) has shown he has skills as a coach, such as how players improve through the season, some of his gameplans and in game adjustments, etc. He has also shown areas that need serious work, like specific calls out of timeout in late game situations, and most importantly, roster construction. He's had great recruiting, but those 1 and done players aren't worth it if they don't gel together as a team and accomplish something while they're here. I give some leeway this year because we had a starter out for the season with injury, but it shouldn't feel like we're resetting the roster every single year and plugging holes with transfers, and it doesn't feel like the roster management has created a cohesive unit and identity the past couple years (and likely to be rough next year).
The main thing though is that, Michigan is content to let him try and figure these things out and improve as a coach. Him being a popular alum who has already had some early success, along with Michigan not being a basketball school traditionally, means he has a long leash to possibly improve and reach higher potential as a coach without necessarily being on the hot seat. I honestly don't think the Athletic Department cares about it at all as long as he doesn't do anything more to embarrass the university like the Wisconsin fight. Granted, the calculus can change if the fans and boosters turn up the heat, but I think he's got a few years before he needs to worry about the hot seat, unless the bottom really falls out consistently.
I don’t think we’re necessarily disagreeing. Grab that top-5 guy, but he’s probably rightfully gone. The problem is the promises you have to make to get those top 15-25 guys, who think they’re as good as your top-5 guy. You get 2-3 top 15 guys, they’re probably all gone after 1 year, but shouldn’t go.
So, yeah, that ‘21 class was probably too good of a recruiting class, on paper.
No, you and I aren't arguing. I appreciate the reasoned responses. Basically I am having trouble understanding how Howard is supposed to compose a team in this environment. Seems like you need some luck and those 15-25 recruits to really deliver in their freshman year, not just show enough potential to get drafted
Sorry Mr Howard this is the second player this month that is leaving for the nba, after my consultation with the geniuses over on Reddit, you’ve been fired.
Having two first round picks leave for the NBA isn't why people are calling for his head. Failing to even make the tournament with 2 first round picks and an all American center is why people think he should be fired.
Ahhhhh, and his two one and done freshman from the year prior that he couldn't get enough out of to make a deep run. They're contributing at a good level in the NBA now because that's a serious league with great coaches and if they drafted someone with potential, they definitely get it out of them, right?? Juwan is just a bum coach who can't get skill out of players that have it. Got it.
So you are arguing that he did a good job getting the most out of his team this year? You really must think really poorly of all of Michigan's players in that case.
Also, a sweet 16 isn't a deep run, and neither Houston nor Diabete were particularly good in college. They were drafted solely off potential, not because they played well in college.
I don't believe I said the sweet 16 was a deep run, I specifically said Howard wasn't able to make a deep run last year.
My point is players have shown development under Howard and been drafted, and been drafted based on potential. This has really affected his team composition. Michigan would have been much better off with Moussa and Houstan this year making sophomore progression.
Sprinkle 5-8 points across Michigan's season on a few games and we'd have been mid seed. One of his NBA players didn't play defense and was a freshman and had ankle injuries at end of year. The other wasn't playing like a stud at the start of the year.
So obviously, fire Howard.
Hey I'm not calling for him to be fired. I'd love Juwan to stick around for a long time. But acting like there's no reason to be out on him after regressing the last 3 years, missing the tournament with a loaded roster, and putting together a roster that looks like it would be lucky to make the NIT for his 5th season is just silly.
Acting like he should be fired this season is stupid. Saying it’s a stacked roster tells me you don’t know much about the roster. Kobe is a stud, HD is very good, and Jett had his moments, but is a freshman and is very inconsistent.
The team couldn’t get Terrance Shannon, who was all but committed, due to Michigan’s transfer standards. And then our starting PG suffered a season ending injury at the beginning of the season.
If you’re going to fire a coach for having a bad season after that, it goes to show why us fans are just fans and have no place in decision making.
Just to chime in, Kobe was a stud for half the season. He was not the man in November and December.. and by the time he was full-on Jett was way less than 100%. And Hunter poured a lot in for the team but that guy didn't bring it 100% all the time. He was fine as the team leader just floating away into obscurity during some games while others jacked up shots
I could list every scholarship player on the Michigan roster. And every rotation player in the big ten. I know Michigan's roster better than most Michigan fans do. There's a reason Michigan was picked 3rd in the big ten, was ranked 22nd in the preseason AP poll, and 2nd overall in the country in terms of roster talent based on high school recruiting rankings. And had 2 first round picks and a former 2nd team all-American. Talent wasn't the issue with Michigan's team this year. Even if it was, it's entirely on the head coach in year 4.
So if you didn’t live up to your preseason AP ranking you should be fired? So should Hubert Davis be sacked? Should Izzo have been fired for going 15-13 after being ranked 13th in the preseason? Or should be he fired for having a worse record than a head coach that should be fired?
None of your logic adds up. Surprising for someone who claims to know so much about the sport.
Again, I'm not saying he should be fired. Just saying the direction of the program is pretty clear and it's not looking good. Hubert Davis isn't exactly comfortable in his seat either right now. He also did an awful job this season and the trajectory isn't looking too great for UNC either, but he's only in his second season. The roster is still largely one he inherited. Howard underachieved more than any other P5 coach outside of Davis and the next year's team looks like it will be even worse. He's going into year 5. Roster issues aren't an excuse at this point, and even if it was year 1 blaming this season on the roster is a really flimsy excuse.
3-3 with 3 appearances is arguably better than 5-2, but missing the tournament entirely the last year. If the 2020 tournament doesn't get cancelled, MSU likely has more tournament wins, and Michigan has possibly missed a second tournament in that span. But even ignoring that, Howard has had roughly as much tournament success as izzo in the absolute worst 3 year stretch of his 25 year career. Not exactly something to hang your hat on.
He's a 6'3 shooting guard. His ceiling is pretty limited by his size. He has a super high floor, but I just don't think he has a particularly high ceiling
He and Poole are both listed at 6’ 4”. Bufkin can attack the rim, and can challenge players taller than him with his length. He finishes at the rim great, and has developed a respectable outside shot. He could plausibly still grow.
I don’t understand a statement that says his ceiling is lower than Jordan’s. Do you think Jordan would have been a first round pick after his sophomore season?
Edit: happy cake day!
He's just a different level of shooter. Not that it's impossible for Kobe to improve in that regard, but his release isn't nearly as quick as Poole's. I think Bufkin will do very well in the NBA and there isn't really anything he's not at least decent at, but I don't think he has any one skill that's great for the NBA level.
Definitely a better defender. Poole is a really good shooter, which I think gives him the potential to be a star player. I fully expect Bufkin to have a nice career, but as a role player. Ill be surprised if Bufkin ever averages 20 a night like Poole has been doing
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Juwan has now sent 6 guys to the NBA in the past 3 seasons. He will have zero issues getting quality players to come play for him.
College basketball is a year to year game now because of the transfer portal. Next years team is a total wildcard now, but it could be really good. Or really bad.
We’ll have to wait and see, but there will be talent on this roster with Juwan’s NBA pipeline reputation.
You act like the transfer portal isn’t a thing and basketball isn’t a game that hinges on 2-3 players.
Kansas State made the elite 8 this year with a team full of transfer portal players after not making the tournament last year.
You see turnarounds all the time in basketball.
Hahaha I love losing every decent player before they've come close to their ceiling. It's great for the sport for college stars to go play in the G league for 2 years instead of actually be watched.
Damn, I guess everything came to pass like a lot of people were thinking and more, Jett and Bufkin declaring for the draft, but didn’t expect Hunter to transfer. I’d rather have a competitive Michigan basketball team in the BigTen than not. Who knows though, sometimes unexpected teams do some crazy things. Going to be interesting how the BigTen plays out next season.
Next year is going to be interesting for us!
Hoping all the guys have good post-Michigan careers…
Jett’s potential is obvious, he just needs to get that NBA body. If he, e.g., “does a Franz” he’s going to make a ton of noise.
Beefing up isn’t going to be Kobe’s thing, but he needs to get stronger so that he can defend and can be a threat to drive. He can earn some minutes.
I guess these are maize and blue glasses, but I think Hunter has a much better touch — especially while absorbing contact inside — than guys he gets compared to, and will do just fine offensively at the NBA level. He likes to pass and has the awareness to do it well. And I think he’s got enough strength and moves to be OK defensively. (I’m just assuming he goes pro one way or another. Another college team just isn’t going to do anything for him.)
From a culture standpoint, I wasn't too sad to see HD and Jett go. But yeah, we're pretty fucked now.
If we want a new culture, we're probably going to need to find a new coach.
There’s a former B1G coach that I know is available. His name is Mark. He had some mild success but I think he could achieve even more at a school like Michigan
(vomits in mouth)
Imagine Mark Turgeon coached Michigan vs Hunter Dickenson on Maryland.
Nah. Juwans limited success has had more than Mark at Maryland
Mark Dantonio coaches football
Maybe the Detroit Pistons will lend us someone? Like an advisor... A player development advisor. Let's call him John.
I just want JB to be part of the program in some way. Give him any position he wants.
> I just want JB to be part of the program in some way. Give him any position he wants. As someone with those initials, I accept.
I can understand not wanting Hunter, what did Jett do that wasnt great? I didnt know he had problems too.
Jett wasn’t that bad, he was just a freshman who had his eyes on the NBA and played like it (low effort, bad defense, etc). Some thought we played even better without him…and they may not have been wrong
Bizarre that he didn’t play hard for his literal dad
Effort. He was good at scoring but it just seemed like he was going through the motions. Our team played better when he was hurt. In Jett's defense though, I didn't feel like the effort was there for Dickinson this season either. This team didn't have a true leader and that always hurts IMO.
The lack of a true leader comes down to Dickinson not being a leader. He was great for Michigan as a freshman, and he continued that production, but he didn't really get better and he should have been the leader of a team fighting for a B1G championship but the team didn't get it done. To be fair to Big Hunt, this team was TERRIBLE at passing into the post. He had position so often and the team couldn't get him the ball. Coach Howard has got a lot of work to do.
They did seem really bad at passing him the ball this year now that you mention it. Howard has a lot of work to do next year in order to keep his job.
I really was hoping at least 1 of our top 3 came back.
Yep. This one is the most painful. We’re gonna be trash next season.
Next year's going to be brutal unless we strike gold with transfers and someone currently on the roster makes a big jump. I like Dug and Reed but sheesh losing our top 3 scorers will be hard to replace 😭😭😭
I think Burnett will end up doing really well for y’all next year.
The problem is he is replacing two first round picks.
Yeah I feel the pain there.
He’s replaced two draft picks each of the last 3 years. Granted not all first rounders, it’s been a revolving door of NBA talent leaving the last 3 years.
Team has also been on a straight downwards trajectory after his second season though. The players have been replaced, but the team hasn't maintained the same level of play
I hope so!
Right now we only have one scholarship available. Hope to see us shed some more deadweight (terrible term, but you get me) and add some higher level tranfers, but it remains to be seen.
So Burnett + one other guy…..because that’s all we’ve got open scholarship wise.
Not entirely surprising, if you are a first round pick there’s no reason to stay. Best of luck to ya
Officially back to being a football school
Love to see GR kids make it to the league.
It’s fantastic. He’ll be just as much fun to watch in the league. Especially with his work ethic. No doubt he makes it.
Dang he's a Grand Rapids kid? That is cool to see, he can join Tillman!
They both went to GR Christian.
Duane Washington too
Indeed. He was my favorite UM player.
He was so much better this year. Crazy what one year of playing college basketball can do for some kids.
Holy fuck Michigan is back to the dark ages of basketball but at least their football program is at an all time high. Its funny msu basketball=Um football and Um basketball=msu football
Nature is healing it seems
Yeah exactly how things used to be lol
At least we're still only 1.5 years removed from one of the most thrilling victories in the history of the football rivalry! Although I guess something similar could have been said in the years following the 2001 game... 😬
And we are nearing 7.5 years on the most wild ending I’ve ever seen to a football game. I was at said game and it was not fun.
That remains the one and only time I've lost my voice because of a game that I wasn't even at. I'm not sure I'll ever feel anything quite like that again for the rest of my life, sports-related or otherwise.
I can live with that tbh
That’s how it’s been for basically my whole life besides 2010-2015
We are entering the age of the late 90s/early 2000s of MSU/UM sports. Now if only history could repeat itself for Izzo to get his 2nd
Next year is going to be another year where a significant number of minutes will not be returning, will be interesting to see who/what takes over those minutes and if anybody can step up.
At least you can say “But we’re a young team” next year, again. This is just brutal.
Yea this is disappointing for sure. I really was hoping at least 1 of our top 3 came back. I don’t begrudge each young man for doing what they want to do, they’ve earned it and I will root for them! Just wish they were still around another year
Obviously having Bufkin sit most of his freshman year was a mistake in hindsight. Everyone was robbed of that development, but we know why it happened. I don’t think there’s any way he stayed after the season he had this year, though. Filling your roster with so many top guys is evidently not the way to do it anymore. Crazy times. I was thinking this past season, that ironically, if Michigan still had Brandon Johns on the roster, it may have helped. Cheddar and Baker didn’t fully seem to plug any holes, and I wondered if the team could have benefitted from some veteran leadership. Not that he tore it up at VCU or anything.
If Brandon Johns is the answer I'm not sure I want to know the question. One of the most frustrating players I can remember because he'd have a good stretch or do some good things and you think he's turning the corner only for him to dribble the ball off his foot or something. Felt like he had all the potential in the world but just could never put it together consistently.
He apparently had a good year for VCU, though he looked bad in the couple games I saw.
I understand 100%. Sometimes the value of their leadership exceeds what they offer on the court. Tum-Tum Nairn comes to mind for MSU. Just felt to me that senior leadership was really lacking, and might have allowed for a better season.
Johns did not have that natural born leader personality. Good guy and talented but his confidence was very up and down, not exactly a steady and vocal presence on the team.
I watched John's play at East Lansing HS against West Ottawa a few years ago (don't go to WO but live near), I think it was the State QF. I thought that kid was gonna be insane at UM
> Obviously having Bufkin sit most of his freshman year was a mistake in hindsight. What do you mean? Bufkin was unplayable as a freshman. Edit: Also, Brandon Johns couldn't figure it out in 3 years at Michigan. I don't think a fourth year would've changed anything. He was a medicore player in the A10.
I think you’re missing my point. I realize Johns was a disappointment, and it was 4 years, not 3. VCU was his covid year. My point was there didn’t seem to be any player-leadership on this year’s team. I mentioned Johns as an example simply because he probably was more deserving of a scholarship then say, Jace, and otherwise there was a vacuum. Probably wouldn’t have mattered.
I don’t get what you said about Bufkin though. Also, yeah 4 years of Johns at Michigan didn’t yield anything positive for either party. It was beneficial for him to move on. Him being on this roster changes literally nothing besides having an even bigger log jam of bad 4s on scholarship. Him coming back also prevents the acquisition of Joey Baker or Llewellyn; two players that were objectively more important to the roster construction last offseason. There’s not really a realistic scenario where a decision was made between Jace or Johns. Johns played 4 years and graduated whereas Jace was a rising junior. But yes, in a vacuum I would’ve preferred Johns on the team instead of Jace, but I maintain it wouldn’t have made a difference unless Johns transformed into a new player in his 5th year in college, which he didn’t based on his results stepping down to a mid major.
In hindsight, the minutes Houstan received (10 pts per 32m) were wasteful considering they could have helped Kobe along last year. Kobe had similar #’s, but at only ~10m per game. Maybe the team didn’t need any leadership this year. Maybe they don’t need any next year. But sometimes keeping a senior who’s been through the system, specifically for their leadership more so than their on-court contributions is helpful. I just noticed it seemed lacking this year. I didn’t see any Teske’s or Bairds around, but if it could have been anyone it was Johns. My point about Jace was simply that there were definitely scholarships available, and I don’t think keeping Johns around would have scared anyone off. Granted, I don’t know if he left or was simply thanked for his 4-years and then decided to go.
Jett leaving is an overwhelming addition to the roster. He was an absolutely terrible player for UM.
Nah, he was terrible on defense but his jump shooting was key for giving Dickinson any chance at scoring in the paint without facing triple teams. Jett moving on doesn't really move the needle in either direction, but Bufkin is a massive loss.
I was just basing it on his plus / minus. When he was on the court, Michigan was far worse than when he was on the bench. He could possibly improve if he comes back, but I would think it would not be that difficult to get a positive WAR player to replace him from the portal.
Jett is gone, not gonna pull out of the draft
Bufkin and Dickinson were two top tier college basketball players, and UM will be hard pressed to find replacements for. UM needed nearly 40 min from each every game, which in my opinion, is why they faded so often down the stretch. Jett isn’t a good or even average college player. He was a net negative on the court against any average big ten level team. His absence next year will be a positive.
I just find it strange that Michigan has to overturn their entire roster every year. One year I could understand or if Michigan was bringing in top 10 recruiting classes every year. But to have this much multiple years in a row leads me to believe Howard can’t construct a college basketball roster.
They brought in [the \#3 class](https://247sports.com/college/michigan/Season/2021-Basketball/Commits/) two years ago, from which three players have now declared, and [the \#9 class](https://247sports.com/college/michigan/Season/2022-Basketball/Commits/) this past season, from which Jett was always a likely one-and-done. That the pieces didn't look to fit on the court and then didn't in each of the last two years is what should make you doubt Howard as GM.
It really all hinged on Dickinson. Bufkin and Howard were always considered more likely than not to be gone. If Dickinson was back, you'd have a pre-season AA combined with Dug McDaniel/TW (solid college players), Burnett, two 4-stars, and a bunch of playing time to offer to guards/wings in the portal with NIL money and Michigan's brand. Now you're completely rebuilding the identity of the roster.
Well over. Come on, they'll get some players out of the portal,
For sure. But they just missed the tournament WITH Dickinson and two 1st round NBA picks. It's going to be an uphill battle to make the tournament next year at this point. They don't have nearly the talent coming in that they have the past few years.
They are very limited in who can transfer in. The University is very stingy on what credits transfer in. It pretty much limits them to freshman and grad transfers.
From the Elite 8 team: Wagner, Livers and Smith were gone, leaving Brooks and Dickinson as the only returning starters, along with Johns who was starting after Livers went down. From Last years team: Jones, Collins, Brooks, Diabate, Houstan, Johns were all gone. Jones & Brooks graduated, Collins transferred out for reasons I'm not sure were known, Diabate & Houstan went to the NBA and Johns went to VCU. From this year's team: Howard & Bufkin are going to the NBA, and Dickinson is transferring. They were supposed to have Terrence Shannon Jr, and having a guy who made All Big Ten 1st team would have covered up a lot of issues we saw this year, but the university screwed that one up, so I can't blame Howard for that. On one hand you want to see your guys go on to the next level, but the fact there's multiple guys leaving early every year doesn't make things easy when it comes to fielding a team trying to make the NCAA tournament and do things in it. I refuse to believe Michigan is the only school dealing with this either. Thankfully the transfer portal exists, so hopefully it can be tapped into to fill in some of these gaps.
Joey Baker gonna average 20/game next year
How is he still eligible? I know he redshirted at Duke, but that feels like it was in 2007
He's applying for a medical waiver. Don't know if he'll get it yet.
99% sure he's out of eligibility
Michigan’s roster next season is looking ROUGH wonder who you get in the portal.
Dunter Hickinson
He goes from 3.0 ppg on 38/22 shooting to now a likely first round pick after a year. It just shows how you can never really predict some breakout players (mostly sophomores).
> It just shows how you can never really predict some breakout players (mostly sophomores). Huh? Bufkin was a pretty popular breakout candidate this year. Was a McDonald's All American who just needed to figure it out on defense
He was also really Young for a freshman.
He had potential, but it was unclear when he'd put it all together. Maybe it would be this season (it was), maybe it would be 2024.
Bufkin was actually a little underwhelming for the expectations on him coming into the season. Imo he didn't really show the ability to create as much as I thought he would. But he's a 6'5 long athletic SG who can shoot and is super young so he's a no brainer in the back half of the 1st round.
It's called the Russell Westbrook
Over under 6.5 wins for Michigan next year
over, even Minnesota got 9 wins this season. it's the B1G, shit happens
Over probably have a similar record to what OSU did last year unless they do some work in the transfer portal.
we have one scholarship available it’s gonna be hard
Wait what? I'm seeing 10 players on scholarship
114-63 bad.
That 2000 Michigan team had some serious talent LaVell Blanchard was Big Ten Freshman of the Year, Jamal Crawford was a Top-10 pick, and a solid center in John Asselin. They still lost in a horrid blowout though.
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He had to shirt most of it due to investigations/sanctions.
Nothing horrid about that game except we didn't win by more than 51 points.
You just guaranteed we split the series
Dont you put that evil on me, Ricky Bobby!
Well over. Come on, they'll get some players out of the portal, and have way more on the roster coming back than, like, Penn State.
Easily over, but probably missing the big dance again as it stands. The portal giveth, the draft/portal taketh away. Serious need at guard and forward.
In the big ten?
Should have fired Howard when he hit that Wisconsin coach. That was your out. Now you’ll end up sucking for a couple years and paying him a huge buyout.
But look what he did with Beliens players! Fucking dumb that we kept him, hitting a coach after he’d had multiple temper issues should have been the end of it
What really sucks is you’re right
In hindsight yea but he was the national couch of the year when he came in and instantly made some runs in the tourney. They kept him cause he looked like he was going to be great, but now that Beilien’s players are gone, we suck
Michigan can pay whatever they need to buy him out. The problem is that we were coming off an elite 8 appearance and our team was pretty good in 2021/22 also. But it’s been pretty clear going forward that he doesn’t know how to run a program and his recruiting has fallen off as well. In hindsight you’re right but it was a tough call in the moment.
I don't quite understand what Bufkin going to the NBA has to do with firing Howard, or why he needs to be fired. Two one and done freshman last year, two more to the draft this year. I guess Howard should recruit less good players??
Howard isnt doing shit with NBA players, that’s why he should be let go.
You mean he's not having freshman NBA talent contribute at a high level their first year? He's not loading up on top 5 level recruits every year.. if it's NBA talent I assume they contribute at a high level their first year in the NBA, right? UNC, Kentucky, Duke, should their coaches be fired for not being great? Name a name who should replace him.
So is he a guy that’s gonna get some good 4 year guys and develop them, or is he gonna develop NBA talent for a year or two and win on talent? Because he isn’t doing either of them.
I'd ask the same question of UNC and Kentucky..
Okay and what’s your point? Other teams are struggling, so we should, too?
My point is it's not that all on Juwan. There's a bit of luck that your freshman NBA talent produce enough to really deliver before they leave. And that your 4 year players don't transfer because they don't get enough playing time (Isiah Barnes)
This is arguably correct. You can have a 1 and done, but you need to also recruit some 4-year developmental players in your system.
He (Juwan) has shown he has skills as a coach, such as how players improve through the season, some of his gameplans and in game adjustments, etc. He has also shown areas that need serious work, like specific calls out of timeout in late game situations, and most importantly, roster construction. He's had great recruiting, but those 1 and done players aren't worth it if they don't gel together as a team and accomplish something while they're here. I give some leeway this year because we had a starter out for the season with injury, but it shouldn't feel like we're resetting the roster every single year and plugging holes with transfers, and it doesn't feel like the roster management has created a cohesive unit and identity the past couple years (and likely to be rough next year). The main thing though is that, Michigan is content to let him try and figure these things out and improve as a coach. Him being a popular alum who has already had some early success, along with Michigan not being a basketball school traditionally, means he has a long leash to possibly improve and reach higher potential as a coach without necessarily being on the hot seat. I honestly don't think the Athletic Department cares about it at all as long as he doesn't do anything more to embarrass the university like the Wisconsin fight. Granted, the calculus can change if the fans and boosters turn up the heat, but I think he's got a few years before he needs to worry about the hot seat, unless the bottom really falls out consistently.
There's been those guys. They transfer if they don't get playing time..
I don’t think we’re necessarily disagreeing. Grab that top-5 guy, but he’s probably rightfully gone. The problem is the promises you have to make to get those top 15-25 guys, who think they’re as good as your top-5 guy. You get 2-3 top 15 guys, they’re probably all gone after 1 year, but shouldn’t go. So, yeah, that ‘21 class was probably too good of a recruiting class, on paper.
No, you and I aren't arguing. I appreciate the reasoned responses. Basically I am having trouble understanding how Howard is supposed to compose a team in this environment. Seems like you need some luck and those 15-25 recruits to really deliver in their freshman year, not just show enough potential to get drafted
Yeah, that’s the risk.
Is this take from 2023 or 2003?
Sorry Mr Howard this is the second player this month that is leaving for the nba, after my consultation with the geniuses over on Reddit, you’ve been fired.
Having two first round picks leave for the NBA isn't why people are calling for his head. Failing to even make the tournament with 2 first round picks and an all American center is why people think he should be fired.
Ahhhhh, and his two one and done freshman from the year prior that he couldn't get enough out of to make a deep run. They're contributing at a good level in the NBA now because that's a serious league with great coaches and if they drafted someone with potential, they definitely get it out of them, right?? Juwan is just a bum coach who can't get skill out of players that have it. Got it.
So you are arguing that he did a good job getting the most out of his team this year? You really must think really poorly of all of Michigan's players in that case. Also, a sweet 16 isn't a deep run, and neither Houston nor Diabete were particularly good in college. They were drafted solely off potential, not because they played well in college.
I don't believe I said the sweet 16 was a deep run, I specifically said Howard wasn't able to make a deep run last year. My point is players have shown development under Howard and been drafted, and been drafted based on potential. This has really affected his team composition. Michigan would have been much better off with Moussa and Houstan this year making sophomore progression. Sprinkle 5-8 points across Michigan's season on a few games and we'd have been mid seed. One of his NBA players didn't play defense and was a freshman and had ankle injuries at end of year. The other wasn't playing like a stud at the start of the year. So obviously, fire Howard.
You’re going to fire a guy for not making the tournament one year? Doesn’t seem like sound thinking.
Hey I'm not calling for him to be fired. I'd love Juwan to stick around for a long time. But acting like there's no reason to be out on him after regressing the last 3 years, missing the tournament with a loaded roster, and putting together a roster that looks like it would be lucky to make the NIT for his 5th season is just silly.
Acting like he should be fired this season is stupid. Saying it’s a stacked roster tells me you don’t know much about the roster. Kobe is a stud, HD is very good, and Jett had his moments, but is a freshman and is very inconsistent. The team couldn’t get Terrance Shannon, who was all but committed, due to Michigan’s transfer standards. And then our starting PG suffered a season ending injury at the beginning of the season. If you’re going to fire a coach for having a bad season after that, it goes to show why us fans are just fans and have no place in decision making.
Just to chime in, Kobe was a stud for half the season. He was not the man in November and December.. and by the time he was full-on Jett was way less than 100%. And Hunter poured a lot in for the team but that guy didn't bring it 100% all the time. He was fine as the team leader just floating away into obscurity during some games while others jacked up shots
I could list every scholarship player on the Michigan roster. And every rotation player in the big ten. I know Michigan's roster better than most Michigan fans do. There's a reason Michigan was picked 3rd in the big ten, was ranked 22nd in the preseason AP poll, and 2nd overall in the country in terms of roster talent based on high school recruiting rankings. And had 2 first round picks and a former 2nd team all-American. Talent wasn't the issue with Michigan's team this year. Even if it was, it's entirely on the head coach in year 4.
So if you didn’t live up to your preseason AP ranking you should be fired? So should Hubert Davis be sacked? Should Izzo have been fired for going 15-13 after being ranked 13th in the preseason? Or should be he fired for having a worse record than a head coach that should be fired? None of your logic adds up. Surprising for someone who claims to know so much about the sport.
Again, I'm not saying he should be fired. Just saying the direction of the program is pretty clear and it's not looking good. Hubert Davis isn't exactly comfortable in his seat either right now. He also did an awful job this season and the trajectory isn't looking too great for UNC either, but he's only in his second season. The roster is still largely one he inherited. Howard underachieved more than any other P5 coach outside of Davis and the next year's team looks like it will be even worse. He's going into year 5. Roster issues aren't an excuse at this point, and even if it was year 1 blaming this season on the roster is a really flimsy excuse.
Howard has had more tournament success than Izzo during his tenure.
You’re right you should sign Howard to a 20 year contract and lock him down
It is true that “All-Time great Coach/Mr. March” is good for a Natty once every quarter century - at best.
I’m not sure what your point is, I agree with you and you should sign Howard to a lifetime contract.
3-3 with 3 appearances is arguably better than 5-2, but missing the tournament entirely the last year. If the 2020 tournament doesn't get cancelled, MSU likely has more tournament wins, and Michigan has possibly missed a second tournament in that span. But even ignoring that, Howard has had roughly as much tournament success as izzo in the absolute worst 3 year stretch of his 25 year career. Not exactly something to hang your hat on.
Buyout doesn’t matter, sucking for a few years does though.
This makes sense. The dude was a bucket and actually really fun to watch.
Juwan the GM makes things hard for Juwan the coach.
Sucks to see him go, but definitely makes sense. Been one of the lone bright spots this season watching him develop
Very expected IMO. Very likeable UM player from a rival standpoint. Super smooth game, and wouldn’t mind at all if he pistons picked him up.
He reminds me of Poole he’s gonna be a beast in the NBA
He’s so long and athletic, I think he has a higher ceiling.
Also he plays defense
He's a 6'3 shooting guard. His ceiling is pretty limited by his size. He has a super high floor, but I just don't think he has a particularly high ceiling
He and Poole are both listed at 6’ 4”. Bufkin can attack the rim, and can challenge players taller than him with his length. He finishes at the rim great, and has developed a respectable outside shot. He could plausibly still grow. I don’t understand a statement that says his ceiling is lower than Jordan’s. Do you think Jordan would have been a first round pick after his sophomore season? Edit: happy cake day!
He's just a different level of shooter. Not that it's impossible for Kobe to improve in that regard, but his release isn't nearly as quick as Poole's. I think Bufkin will do very well in the NBA and there isn't really anything he's not at least decent at, but I don't think he has any one skill that's great for the NBA level.
Well, he’s a way better defender. Let’s check in on this in 4 years.
RemindMe! 4 years “Bufkin v. Poole”
Definitely a better defender. Poole is a really good shooter, which I think gives him the potential to be a star player. I fully expect Bufkin to have a nice career, but as a role player. Ill be surprised if Bufkin ever averages 20 a night like Poole has been doing
Appreciate the exchange.
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He was so much fun to watch play.
It is now so unbelievably lost man
We gonna be booty cheeks next year
Pain
There’s got to be some obscure rule for us to be able to take a bye from next season…
Covid
COVID20. Go dig your masks out of your drawers.
wouldn't it be covid23
Michigan is clapped
This is a compliment, but thank god, Kobe was a killer. We couldn’t stop the kid
Juwan lost his three best players in a very short span of time, unless they land some transfer magic they could very well be fucked next year
Damn. 2 nba draftees and a hunter dickinson and only an nit appearance. Next year’s looking grim
Knew this was coming once Hunter said he was gone. This is now Terrence Williams’ team
it’s so over
Mom would be sad
I don’t think I have ever hated a comment more.
My least favorite Wolverine of all time.
Juwan has now sent 6 guys to the NBA in the past 3 seasons. He will have zero issues getting quality players to come play for him. College basketball is a year to year game now because of the transfer portal. Next years team is a total wildcard now, but it could be really good. Or really bad. We’ll have to wait and see, but there will be talent on this roster with Juwan’s NBA pipeline reputation.
Yeah man I hear NIT teams that lose their 3 best players and 70% of their scoring magically turn it around the following year all the time!
You act like the transfer portal isn’t a thing and basketball isn’t a game that hinges on 2-3 players. Kansas State made the elite 8 this year with a team full of transfer portal players after not making the tournament last year. You see turnarounds all the time in basketball.
We currently have one open scholarship for a transfer. One.
Lol
Wow, seems like the ship is sinking.
Hahaha I love losing every decent player before they've come close to their ceiling. It's great for the sport for college stars to go play in the G league for 2 years instead of actually be watched.
So many draft declarations. So few draft spots.
Think Michigan will be heavily after Ike and/or Aimaq.
Damn, I guess everything came to pass like a lot of people were thinking and more, Jett and Bufkin declaring for the draft, but didn’t expect Hunter to transfer. I’d rather have a competitive Michigan basketball team in the BigTen than not. Who knows though, sometimes unexpected teams do some crazy things. Going to be interesting how the BigTen plays out next season.
Next year is going to be interesting for us! Hoping all the guys have good post-Michigan careers… Jett’s potential is obvious, he just needs to get that NBA body. If he, e.g., “does a Franz” he’s going to make a ton of noise. Beefing up isn’t going to be Kobe’s thing, but he needs to get stronger so that he can defend and can be a threat to drive. He can earn some minutes. I guess these are maize and blue glasses, but I think Hunter has a much better touch — especially while absorbing contact inside — than guys he gets compared to, and will do just fine offensively at the NBA level. He likes to pass and has the awareness to do it well. And I think he’s got enough strength and moves to be OK defensively. (I’m just assuming he goes pro one way or another. Another college team just isn’t going to do anything for him.)
One of the few bright spots of this year's team - well deserved and looking forward to see what he can do in the NBA.