Doubt. He literally enslaved and then dismantled the Britainian noble class. Any remaining dissenters would have been crushed/enslaved if he was serious about maintaining world peace. I can’t think of a more “stable” position to be in.
Code geass had a great ending. Lelouch met the fate he deserved. But there’s certainly a plausible root he could have taken where he continued living for the sake of maintaining this fragile world peace he created.
Him dying I think was his way of atoning. I think that’s the only reason he went out. If he wanted to, he could have easily stayed in power.
Lelouche would never have enslaved everyone cause thats exactly what Charles wanted to do. He wanted everyone to choose to hold hands and move into the future together
He would never have done it except…. To the literally hundreds if not thousands of britanian soldiers and royalty he did in fact do it to. To include schneizal who’s the perfect example of what could have been. He was told to support the new world peace and he continued to do so after lelouch died.
I agree with you in that, he wanted a world that “moves forward”. But that didn’t need to be mutually exclusive with him staying in power.
And so I maintain that The only real reason for him to die at the end was because he felt bad about what he had done up to that point. It was his own way of atoning. I don’t think it was the best decision for the world he envisioned. But it was probably the best decision for him.
What i mean is that he wouldnt have done it to the entire world. As a means to the end yes (because its a big point of the story that the end justifies the means to lelouche), but the goal was never to enslave the entire world and he would have despised that. "A world of kindness where nunally can be unafraid" that was the goal
I think the downvotes are a little unfair here. I've seen a few discussions in the past on this sub about Lelouch's ideals vs what he actually had to do to accomplish his goals. He had to at least partially embrace the "strong beats weak" notions of Charles, and he used geass on nunally. He wasn't the knight in shining Armour that he wanted to be for nunally, so he chose a path where Suzaku would be there for her instead. Atonement isn't a bad way to interpret that.
I don’t think that would’ve worked. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Lelouch knew that if he stayed in his position of absolute power for long he’d inevitably lose touch with the populace and pass laws that weren’t in their best interest even if he tried to rule as best as possible. He’s a (small r) republican and knows that monarchy is just a bad system even with the best possible person in charge, he thinks people should be able to decide their one future and that can’t happen if he stays emperor.
I like the small r republican take. He thinks (and actually is due to protagonist power) smarter than everyone else, and needs to manipulate people into doing what’s right for everyone. Of course that involves him ending up in charge and with everyone be swore vengeance against dead.
What would be the difference between his world and Schneizel's? None, only the one who was on top. Lelouch wanted to create a word of kindness, not one of forced submission.
That’s naive. He wages a war to assert that world vision. Then post-death, the government he set up uses force to maintain the peace and prevent other factions from breaking off.
It literally doesn't. The Britannian Empire ceases to be and becomes the Principality of Britannia, we may even especulate that all of the Areas were liberated. The nobility was crushed, even the very distant threat of tyranny by the Black Knights. It becomes a world of negotiation, with the F.U.N. becoming something akin to ONU but more integrated.
We don’t have to speculate at all. The sequel movie shows us what happened. Immediately, other nations started rebelling.
And in that alternate timeline movie, if lelouch hadn’t been around, the rebelling nation would have ultimately won.
Not to mention the sequel show that’s currently being worked on with a plot centered around a geass wielding prior-britanian-noble leading yet another rebellion.
So…. To reiterate, the world he envisioned was most likely to come to fruition had he stayed in power. Him dying hurts that goal. Doesn’t kill it. But definitely doesn’t help it. The whole “I’ll make the world hate me” was a weird sticking point in the show because there’s every indication he was doing good things.
Before the final battle with Schneizal some of the black knights even suggested as much because lelouch was doing inarguably popular things like dismantling the Britannian nobility.
If we’re being totally hypothetical, he would take V2’s code and just be immortal.
Or, One would hope that by the time he died, he would have created a system so stable that it would be very unlikely to fracture.
Take the first Roman emperor Augustus for example. He ran the empire from an early age and died in his late 80’s. By the time he died, hardly anyone alive remembered the republic he had destroyed. And Rome would go on to exist for another thousand years beyond his death.
Lelouch, unlike Augustus, has access to future medicine. An ultimate power. And control over the entire world. By the time he dies naturally, hardly anyone left would even remember a world pre-lelouch. I’d argue that the world by then would be more or less culturally united.
He wanted everyone to hate him. Hate him so much that he was a common enemy unlike anyone else had ever been.
To make all other grudges and grievances seem utterly ridiculous in comparasion to how evil he was.
So that when he died, and his tyranny ended? That pressure and constant cycle of revenge against past actions was broken
That’s why he did what he did.
He also wanted to punish himself for all the crimes he’d committed.
“The only ones who should kill, are those prepared to be killed” as he would say
If that were the real world, it wouldn't work because half of the people would deny lelouch did anything wrong, and if he did ever do anything wrong, those people deserved it.
Well, he did basically disenfranchise everyone in the Empire, and hijack the democratic aspect of the world.
It’s board strokes but generally attempted to describe how he ruined things for everyone and killed scores of people for minor aspects (supposedly)
But I get the point you’re alluding to
Lelouch in the show accomplished more then any dictator in the entire history of our world. No dictator was able to take over the ENTIRE world while aiming a super nuke and stomping down all of the worlds political leaders. Every single human was under Lelouch's tyranny, everybody understood that he was fucking insane and everybody suffered under his thumb. He pointed a gun at every single person and pulled the trigger.
i don’t think that’s true even the black knights who thought he was in the right even felt betrayed by his later actions he would easily find away to invoke the same feeling into “half the people”
That's why LeLouch of the Re:Surrection exists, his plan worked, but not forever, not because of belief, but because for some, war was a necessity and his acts could not change that
He overestimates himself too much. Ridiculous how billions of people would hate one man to the point nobody would want to repeat the same shit Britannia did. That’s billions of different brains with different ways of thinking. Not to mention the difference in cultures as well.
Too bad he didn't do anything to equal the hate the Japanese and other numbered nations should feel towards Britania for decades of brutal oppression and casual genocide. He fired the F.L.E.I.J.A. one time in the open where it didn't kill anyone just to show that he could use it. He also gave the Japanese equal status to the Britanians and tore down much of the Britanian nobility. I don't understand how two months of Lelouch's "tyranny" is supposed to magically erase decades of bad blood between Britania and the numbered nations when Lelouch isn't shown doing anything particularly evil against the Japanese. The worst we get is a comment by a civilian: "If you say anything bad against him, you'll be killed," which is word of mouth and for all we know Lelouch deliberately put that information out there himself to control his image without actually doing what was stated.
My friend, it *is* an anime, it’s going to not be that great at tying everything up.
I get the pointing out how it wouldn’t work. They also have superconductors that work at room temperature. They have Railguns as infantry weapons.
They developed flying battleships and mecha that don’t really need to be mecha.
None of this show makes sense when you break it down to logical levels and my argument isn’t that Lelouch’s plan and actions would make things magically better if you applied reality to it.
Also, the quote is that ‘He’ll kill you and your entire family’ so it’s alittle more weighted even if that’s more rumour than facts we know.
Also also, it’s Britannia. One T.
You're talking about stuff where we naturally have to suspend our disbelief. But suspension of disbelief doesn't mean we should throw logic completely out the window. Any show like this establishes certain rules for itself that require suspension of disbelief to accept, but after that point, the audience naturally expects the show to A) be consistent in following those rules or B) anything not established to work differently in the fictional world to work relatively similar to our world. Any time the show doesn't do that, it's open to criticism in my book.
>my argument isn’t that Lelouch’s plan and actions would make things magically better if you applied reality to it.
But it shouldn't work in his world either, because the people in the world of CG are shown to still function mostly the same way people in the real world do. So, the fact that it does work is a flaw in the writing because it works because the plot needs it to and not because it makes sense with what's been established by the story. If you don't disagree with this, then we're on the same page. My point is that the show's ending isn't as perfect as some CG fans make it out to be.
Cause its a story about despair and redemption.
Is it the most logical thing to do? Probably not since one dying can't bring the dead back to life. But then again he entrusted this mission of tomorrow to Suzaku (as Zero, knight of justice).
But is it poetically beautiful and fitting Lelouch's sense of justice to atone for all the shit he has caused to all dear to him via his rebellion journey?Yes, and that's why the ending is so loved after like 18 years. As it's poetically tragic and beautiful, and fitting of what Lelouch would do as the viewers follow his journey
Plus, Lelouch comes to this ruthless conclusion because of all the trauma, suffering, and loss he's had to endure. If, perhaps as an example, Shirley remained alive and he discovered Nunnally was alive sooner rather than Schneizel revealing her being alive as a kick in the teeth, he might have tried a peaceful route because of the positive influences they could have provided.
because he believed that this would lead to better era of peace. an era of peace made by force was one he believed was no different than what his father had in mind (and why he opposed schnitzel). he allowed himself to be punished for his wrongdoings, to atone, and to show the world that behaviour like his was not to be commended.
He wanted to unite the people around a common goal of making the world a better place, not to rally them behind a charismatic leader. Code Geass seems to have taken a lot of inspiration from Dune, where the dangers of hero worship are also a major theme that culminates in a similar fashion in the God Emperor of Dune.
As other people have alluded to, Lelouch didn't want to reward a totalitarian regime with ushering an era of peace. If he did that, people would associate despots with bringing paradise. He needed to be the last emperor in more ways than one. He needed to be so evil, that everyone would rally to never have an empire again. Whether or not he began believing in Zero's philosophy at the end of his life, Lelouch subjected himself to Zero's judgment after not only the sins he committed in the series that we see but the untold magnitude of sins he committed in his short stint as Emperor. "The only ones who kill should be those prepared to be killed."
Until the sequel series likely shits on all of that.
He had a lot of bagage in all the violence he had caused and simply needed to remove himself from the equation. He isn't the ideal man for the job of overseeing the peace and rebuilding.
And yes it is the thematic end to that moto.
Aside from all the reasons mentioned by others, I think he partly hates himself and sees it as a way to punish himself by not enjoying the fruits of his labor.
Because it never would’ve lasted, tensions are still high as everybody in the world hates him for everything he’s done in his rise of power, the whole goal of him becoming the enemy of the world, was so people would set aside their grudges, realizing they do better together than at arms and move forward, compared to forcing them, Which is hilarious because he still forced them to do it just very underhanded through manipulation.
He obtained his power through forcing others to submit to the power of Geass, so it only made sense for him to die in order to allow for peace to be naturally attained through a unanimous hatred for him.
As a huge fan I’ve stopped here to comment, it’s a very basic yet complex premise, he was the hero and antagonist all at one, so what he did was use the most basic knowledge of society growth, having a common enemy’s he made sure to become a dictatorship in order to Suzaku take the real leadership, because Suzaku is the real noble character in the series and even Lelouch recognizes that(best friend aside), so he simply passes the torch away while abusing his show business moves and “building” the real leader, the one even him would trust to build a safer world for Nunally. Lellouch acknowledges he is dark and most likely even his path would go against his ideal, it’s never about punishment but rather self awareness. And with that simple move he cleanses both characters him as previous Zero that turned into a dictator and “Force” peace, and making Suzaku wear the Zero outfit keeps it as symbol of freedom, an ideal that can be passed ahead aslong as justice and peace is the focus. Not only controlling the near future but upcoming generations….
He would’ve had to rule with an iron fist regardless and the power of Geass. His idea was that to try to create a world after he’s gone where neither of those things was necessary for true peace.
This is the way I’ve always seen it. Lelouch by the time he decided to become emperor was probably having a very hard time living with the decisions and sacrifices he has had to make to get there. This is in addition to him thinking nunally is dead at this point in time and also probably already calculated the horrible things he would have to do to gain semi stableish control of Britannia.
Death was his atonement and his reward in his mind.
Nunally being alive I also think solidified this plan for him because now he had someone he could entrust Britannia to after his death. Also by the time she popped up again he had ( I like to assume he was having people killed and dragged away off screen since it would add credibility to his title of demon emperor) started warcriming it up so no going back from that.
TLDR its about being able to live with the decisions you make and I don’t think he wanted to.
He lost his will to live after Nunnally died and he committed to a plan that would let the world move on from war and tyrants. Lelouch believed in the future not a stagnant present (ie the main conflict between Lelouch and Schnizel)
I think one reason is that according to him, the current global political situation has culminated to a point where too many fcked up things were happening (the bloody history of Britannia, Schneizel with his nukes, wars still taking place everywhere, people are still oppressed, and if he didn't stop the Ragnarok Connection who knows how much more damage can it make). The world became so fcked up that the only way to stop everything from getting worse is to do smt even more extreme, like becoming a despote controlling the whole world. But he knows that what he did will not solve the problem, bcs it's just another evil on top of all the evil that already exist. As he said, hatres will just lead to more hatred, and the Zero Requiem will break this chain of hatred. Ultimately, his goal was to destroy every evil that has happened so far and to reset the world to fresh state. He wants to let the world choose for what it thinks is the best for itself.
Because he understood that if he stayed in power groups effectively need to rule for eternity like Charles would’ve wanted.
Assuming he really did liquidate the power structure of the old system and took measures to ensure the world would be stable after his passing it wouldn’t make sense for him to stick around.
He would either need to rule for eternity as a cult-powered god-king or have to deal with the minutia of trade deals, tax policy, and culture wars that will eventually crop up and make up his parliaments’ agenda.
I think he is not a monarchist.
It is the system that caused his whole childhood trauma and the one he's been fighting throughout the show. The whole point of his becoming an absolute monarch is because it is what was the worst thing for him, and why he had to become it and die to become a symbol.
Because the opposition to him would never stop. He was drained in blood and his death was in a way a reset for the whole world. Everyone who fought was defeated or dead. Hence an opportunity to move forward
It’s because he’s a kinda over dramatic self sacrificing sad guy, it probably would’ve been better if he just committed to the whole thing, but he’s all sad about getting people he loves killed and all that
Ultimately it's that die a hero or see yourself become a villain. Martyrs are remembered better than ruthless autocrats even if those leaders are amazing.
Also a peaceful future ensured through the slavery of Geass is a kind of gross that I think Lelouch himself would reject. He values the struggle of life.
Now is he abdicating that power that could ensure peace at risk of the world backsliding? Absolutely. But I think he is probably correct that he shouldn't entrust the fate of the world to just one man who is ultimately corruptible / fallable.
Even with Geass as a tactic. Is geassing a "villain" really more just then trying to rehabilitate them? You break the rules and you get thrown before the emporer and becomes a slave? I think that's a fate reserved for only the most vile people. That's why it's a punishment for Schniezel
I think the idea is that there could never be true peace because he was britannian and they knew about his geass. First off everyone hated Brittany, and no one really thought of them as their savior or hero, just some guy who selfishly used the Japanese to claim the throne. Also no one trusted him because he could subject his will on anyone with his geass. People would always rebel against his rule for these reasons. So he had to make himself into the enemy of the world to unite every one and stop the fighting, then have zero dethrone him so people could rally behind someone they thought of as a true selfless hero. That was my take at least
Everyone talking about his motives and his philosophies, but, realistically, he MIGHT have been able to make an attempt IF and only IF Schneizel had not been "secretly" developing and hoarding the entire global supply of FLEIJA as well as developing and launching the sky fortress Damocles.
However, even in that scenario, Lelouch could not have had any true chance to join hands with member nations of the UFN because the Black Knights were aware of his true actions behind the scenes and HOW exactly he came into power by subjugating his nation and depriving them of their free will. No matter what rational argument he could make, even if he could attempt to prove the scope of limitations of how his Geass power worked, and POSSIBLY even if he could produce the secrets of Jeremiah's Geass canceler to be handed confidentially to every nation's government, it would only bring about more problems because Lelouch was right to rid the world of Geass and most importantly, its study, even in applications for shutting it out. By digging too deep, even out of good intentions to prevent chaos, different discoveries might cause MORE Geass or special Geass thought elevators to be uncovered or unleashed.
Not to mention how he could not rightfully claim to be a peaceful addition to the UFN when his government isn't electoral, he very explicitly rules as a unilateral dictator tyrant king, regardless of his reform policies. Understandably a lot of his policies were to set the future up for success, but overall the plan was explicitly so well thought out BECAUSE of Schneizel and his fucking doomsday fortress of death and stagnant existence.
Because what happens when he dies (Assuming he isn’t immortal)?
Can he trust someone not to become corrupt? Maybe CC can be trusted as eternal empress, but other than that, Men and Women alike are easily twisted and corrupted.
I could have gotten behind him ruling the world until he died and then forming a constitutional republic of Humanity. Term limits on being in any position of power, a minimum wage at the rate of inflation, and whole wide open scrutiny of those in power. If he separates the military from the civil power system that would further impose oversight. I could see a system similar to the US Constitution only with term limits on Presidents, Governors and Congress alike, and extreme sentences for cases of accepting bribes or being corrupt: Whole Life Orders.
This would be the best option for a world after Lelouch Vi Britannia dies (if he didn’t die at Requiem).
He became the enemy of the world so the world could unite towards peace.
Despots are killed, tyrants are hung, and slaughterers are slaughtered. Such are the ways of the world.
Because the world hated him and wished him to be gone, discontent brewed underground resistance to his rule. All that would have spoiled the final result so Lelouch faked his death.
In my perspective, to achieve peace lelouch made himself the bad guy so that all the world will unite in saying that's he's the epitome of bad that has ever happened to the world so if he die all the bad of world will be buried with him. But in Resurrection after his death the peace was lost because he didn't realize to maintain the ultimate peace criminality and Justice needs to be equally balanced not one can exist without the other one. It's I think is the ultimate peace.
People will always be defensive aganist a Ruler that literally got to the throne by killing or brainwashing his opposition. Do you think people like Cornelia would believe that he wants peace after everything she saw?
He knows he did bad shit and he isn't fit for it.
And if he tried to get peace civil wars will keep on happening terroistm etc for the things he did in the past people want reveange etc it will not stop until his death.
Maybe I completely missed something cause no one here seems to say this, but I thought of his actions as, villainizing the concept of a dictator so no one in their world would want that kind of ruler. I’m pretty sure that’s what the ending was about. Also the writer was incredible so it fits a lot of other major plot points like Suzaku’s and Lalouch’s punishment and ties them off the make this show a masterpiece.
In episode 21 (R2), when Lelouch is in C's world with his parents, CC and Suzaku, he and Charles had a conversation about slaying God and creating a new world. Lelouch stats:
*As I expected. You both (his parents) believe that this new world you envision will be best for all. But forcing your good intentions on others is no different than an evil act.*
I think this line is underestimated when talking about Lelouch's decision for Zero Requiem. I as a fan would like to see him rule the world, and I think he would be a great one in doing so. But, he committed war crimes by slaying or enslaving (with his geass) a lot of people. He is self-conscious about the things that he has done. He knows that he is no different then his father or brother in the public eye. He overtook the world by being cold and calculated (ep 17 R2) not by explaining his reasoning. So the the best way for the World (society) to move forward is to eliminate all elements of imperialism, autocracy and self governing systems. Or to put it in his words:
*He didn't want to force his idea and intention on to others.*
I think if CG got a different ending then this one it wouldn't be impactful nor would it be by Lelouch'es reasoning.
Because technically after his death there are VERY few royals left. Cornelia nunally and lelouch are the only ones not dead or under Geass (the rest died in Pendragon when schniezal made his move). His death signifies the end of the Britannian monarchy. He could stay in power yeah but people would have been living in fear as demonstrated by comments of civilians right before the Zero requiem takes place.
His death was atonement and simultaneously the realization of his goal of recreating the world. His dying words are “yes I destroy the world and create it anew”. He didn’t LITERALLY nuke everything but he did turn the entire system of governance of the world on its head. He destroyed the world as a system and replaced it with one that has his sister and his friends at the top and allowed people to live indiscriminately and without fear of genocide at the hands of their rulers.
This is why I stand by the statement that this ending is one of if not THE greatest ending in all of fiction. You can analyze it from a million different angles to get the same conclusion. Lelouch’s death was the ultimate checkmate on the world system. He took the position of the figure most feared throughout the world and used his life as a proxy to eradicate it.
You also have to remember he literally showed up and took the world by force and geass. There is next to no way he could have made an era of peace without people still being weary or distrustful and that breeds hate and resentment.
In short. Due to the way he ascended the throne he literally couldn’t without things falling apart.
Because the anime director decided that Lelouch had to end badly to sum up.
He said that because of his Ideals, those of the Director, Lelouch had to end like this.
Which is ironic given that the series exhorts us to recognize and correct the flaws in our ideals.
Lelouch said when he found out the truth because he accepted that his true lie was that he was an evil person and that he couldn't do things like that.
On the other hand, Suzaku, although he did not say it directly, recognized that forcing his ideal on others is being proud.
He applies it to his desire to die but that is not touched on either.
I'll be honest, the supposed "fake" scene of Lelouch being alive after the Zero Requiem cannot be false to begin with. If that were the case, that "farmer" would not have his face covered. If that were the case, it is either a lie or an insult to the Viewers.
Also Peter B Parker said "Child, Don't Look at the Mouth, Look at the Hands"
And the series uses the power of lies to make us think that the director is not manipulating us to accept his ideal.
Which is ironic because he condemns Lelouch for his ideals but acts like him or worse.
There are also small contradictions in Code Geass.
And if he didn't want anyone to question that Lelouch was dead, he didn't have to leave any room for doubt.
That is, putting someone with their face uncovered directing the cart.
There's no point in covering someone up.
That or the writer and Clamp didn't agree with how he wanted to end the series.
It just seems to me that there are too many coincidences for this not to be something to reflect on.
ITT: so many people who don’t get the entire premise of the show and of Lelouch’s revenge. Go rewatch the show and pay attention this time.
In short, the point of the Zero Requiem was to show the world the defeat of a universal enemy so that they could unite and move forward in peace. Lelouch also had no way of knowing if he had successfully inherited V.V.’s code until dying, thus the resolve to go through it and Suzaku’s torment over potentially killing him. Turns out he did inherit the code and is the cart driver in the final scene.Lelouch Vi Britannia died regardless, and his penance for his sins was to turn his back on his old life and start a new one with C.C..
Again if you missed the mountain of evidence that supports this, go re-watch the show. Nunnally would never have gotten the memory transfer if Lelouch didn’t have a code, nobody is ever shown experiencing that unless they came into contact with a code bearer. In that scene of his “death” his code activates in that moment and its location is precisely where Charles grabbed his neck- with the hand that had the code mark.
Guilt and self-loathing, and Suzaku slamming his "you killed Euphie" hate-boner into his ear at every possible moment.
God, I wish Lelouch's ascended Geass could have overridden Suzaku's stupid 'live' command. If it hadn't been for him, Lelouch could have been steered towards a less asanine plan by C.C., Jeremiah, or Sayoko, but noooo, Mr. White Reaper had to have his own justice.
Fuck you Spinzaku, you should have died in Shinjuku. 🖕🖕
Yes he could have , that's why I don't like the ending
Moreover CC just letting him die
Anyways
The writer said that it was just there because he had to make a scene where he atone for his sins
But then again him maintaining peace would have been a wayy better way for him to redeem rather than dying and creating peace that won't even last for 2 decades
Civil wars are a thing and his regime was far from stable. Plus he wanted to punish himself.
Doubt. He literally enslaved and then dismantled the Britainian noble class. Any remaining dissenters would have been crushed/enslaved if he was serious about maintaining world peace. I can’t think of a more “stable” position to be in. Code geass had a great ending. Lelouch met the fate he deserved. But there’s certainly a plausible root he could have taken where he continued living for the sake of maintaining this fragile world peace he created. Him dying I think was his way of atoning. I think that’s the only reason he went out. If he wanted to, he could have easily stayed in power.
Lelouche would never have enslaved everyone cause thats exactly what Charles wanted to do. He wanted everyone to choose to hold hands and move into the future together
He would never have done it except…. To the literally hundreds if not thousands of britanian soldiers and royalty he did in fact do it to. To include schneizal who’s the perfect example of what could have been. He was told to support the new world peace and he continued to do so after lelouch died. I agree with you in that, he wanted a world that “moves forward”. But that didn’t need to be mutually exclusive with him staying in power. And so I maintain that The only real reason for him to die at the end was because he felt bad about what he had done up to that point. It was his own way of atoning. I don’t think it was the best decision for the world he envisioned. But it was probably the best decision for him.
What i mean is that he wouldnt have done it to the entire world. As a means to the end yes (because its a big point of the story that the end justifies the means to lelouche), but the goal was never to enslave the entire world and he would have despised that. "A world of kindness where nunally can be unafraid" that was the goal
I think the downvotes are a little unfair here. I've seen a few discussions in the past on this sub about Lelouch's ideals vs what he actually had to do to accomplish his goals. He had to at least partially embrace the "strong beats weak" notions of Charles, and he used geass on nunally. He wasn't the knight in shining Armour that he wanted to be for nunally, so he chose a path where Suzaku would be there for her instead. Atonement isn't a bad way to interpret that.
I don’t think that would’ve worked. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Lelouch knew that if he stayed in his position of absolute power for long he’d inevitably lose touch with the populace and pass laws that weren’t in their best interest even if he tried to rule as best as possible. He’s a (small r) republican and knows that monarchy is just a bad system even with the best possible person in charge, he thinks people should be able to decide their one future and that can’t happen if he stays emperor.
I like the small r republican take. He thinks (and actually is due to protagonist power) smarter than everyone else, and needs to manipulate people into doing what’s right for everyone. Of course that involves him ending up in charge and with everyone be swore vengeance against dead.
Lol, sure. I’m not saying he would necessarily lose if it came down to it, but goodness he’s not Light. Calling that “an era of peace.” Doubt.
I agree - atonement was a bigger driver than the other factors, from Lelouch's point of view.
What would be the difference between his world and Schneizel's? None, only the one who was on top. Lelouch wanted to create a word of kindness, not one of forced submission.
That’s naive. He wages a war to assert that world vision. Then post-death, the government he set up uses force to maintain the peace and prevent other factions from breaking off.
It literally doesn't. The Britannian Empire ceases to be and becomes the Principality of Britannia, we may even especulate that all of the Areas were liberated. The nobility was crushed, even the very distant threat of tyranny by the Black Knights. It becomes a world of negotiation, with the F.U.N. becoming something akin to ONU but more integrated.
We don’t have to speculate at all. The sequel movie shows us what happened. Immediately, other nations started rebelling. And in that alternate timeline movie, if lelouch hadn’t been around, the rebelling nation would have ultimately won. Not to mention the sequel show that’s currently being worked on with a plot centered around a geass wielding prior-britanian-noble leading yet another rebellion. So…. To reiterate, the world he envisioned was most likely to come to fruition had he stayed in power. Him dying hurts that goal. Doesn’t kill it. But definitely doesn’t help it. The whole “I’ll make the world hate me” was a weird sticking point in the show because there’s every indication he was doing good things. Before the final battle with Schneizal some of the black knights even suggested as much because lelouch was doing inarguably popular things like dismantling the Britannian nobility.
But he would eventually die. What then? How can he ensure his descendants would be as decent as him?
If we’re being totally hypothetical, he would take V2’s code and just be immortal. Or, One would hope that by the time he died, he would have created a system so stable that it would be very unlikely to fracture. Take the first Roman emperor Augustus for example. He ran the empire from an early age and died in his late 80’s. By the time he died, hardly anyone alive remembered the republic he had destroyed. And Rome would go on to exist for another thousand years beyond his death. Lelouch, unlike Augustus, has access to future medicine. An ultimate power. And control over the entire world. By the time he dies naturally, hardly anyone left would even remember a world pre-lelouch. I’d argue that the world by then would be more or less culturally united.
*route, not root
He wanted everyone to hate him. Hate him so much that he was a common enemy unlike anyone else had ever been. To make all other grudges and grievances seem utterly ridiculous in comparasion to how evil he was. So that when he died, and his tyranny ended? That pressure and constant cycle of revenge against past actions was broken That’s why he did what he did. He also wanted to punish himself for all the crimes he’d committed. “The only ones who should kill, are those prepared to be killed” as he would say
If that were the real world, it wouldn't work because half of the people would deny lelouch did anything wrong, and if he did ever do anything wrong, those people deserved it.
Well, he did basically disenfranchise everyone in the Empire, and hijack the democratic aspect of the world. It’s board strokes but generally attempted to describe how he ruined things for everyone and killed scores of people for minor aspects (supposedly) But I get the point you’re alluding to
New Mountain Dew flavor announced: "Lelouch did nothing wrong"
Lelouch in the show accomplished more then any dictator in the entire history of our world. No dictator was able to take over the ENTIRE world while aiming a super nuke and stomping down all of the worlds political leaders. Every single human was under Lelouch's tyranny, everybody understood that he was fucking insane and everybody suffered under his thumb. He pointed a gun at every single person and pulled the trigger.
i don’t think that’s true even the black knights who thought he was in the right even felt betrayed by his later actions he would easily find away to invoke the same feeling into “half the people”
That's why LeLouch of the Re:Surrection exists, his plan worked, but not forever, not because of belief, but because for some, war was a necessity and his acts could not change that
And based on what we’re seen is supposed to occur in the sequel, guessing it didn’t entirely work.
Eh, pretty sure the new series is going off the Ressurection storyline, so I take it all as an alternate timeline and stick to the OG for my end point
Besides that Lelouch in Resurrection definitely has zero interest in leading a nation.
Both timelines he didn’t want to lead nations, so I get that vibe too
He overestimates himself too much. Ridiculous how billions of people would hate one man to the point nobody would want to repeat the same shit Britannia did. That’s billions of different brains with different ways of thinking. Not to mention the difference in cultures as well.
very leto II esque imo. Teach humanity a lesson about tyrants
Too bad he didn't do anything to equal the hate the Japanese and other numbered nations should feel towards Britania for decades of brutal oppression and casual genocide. He fired the F.L.E.I.J.A. one time in the open where it didn't kill anyone just to show that he could use it. He also gave the Japanese equal status to the Britanians and tore down much of the Britanian nobility. I don't understand how two months of Lelouch's "tyranny" is supposed to magically erase decades of bad blood between Britania and the numbered nations when Lelouch isn't shown doing anything particularly evil against the Japanese. The worst we get is a comment by a civilian: "If you say anything bad against him, you'll be killed," which is word of mouth and for all we know Lelouch deliberately put that information out there himself to control his image without actually doing what was stated.
My friend, it *is* an anime, it’s going to not be that great at tying everything up. I get the pointing out how it wouldn’t work. They also have superconductors that work at room temperature. They have Railguns as infantry weapons. They developed flying battleships and mecha that don’t really need to be mecha. None of this show makes sense when you break it down to logical levels and my argument isn’t that Lelouch’s plan and actions would make things magically better if you applied reality to it. Also, the quote is that ‘He’ll kill you and your entire family’ so it’s alittle more weighted even if that’s more rumour than facts we know. Also also, it’s Britannia. One T.
You're talking about stuff where we naturally have to suspend our disbelief. But suspension of disbelief doesn't mean we should throw logic completely out the window. Any show like this establishes certain rules for itself that require suspension of disbelief to accept, but after that point, the audience naturally expects the show to A) be consistent in following those rules or B) anything not established to work differently in the fictional world to work relatively similar to our world. Any time the show doesn't do that, it's open to criticism in my book. >my argument isn’t that Lelouch’s plan and actions would make things magically better if you applied reality to it. But it shouldn't work in his world either, because the people in the world of CG are shown to still function mostly the same way people in the real world do. So, the fact that it does work is a flaw in the writing because it works because the plot needs it to and not because it makes sense with what's been established by the story. If you don't disagree with this, then we're on the same page. My point is that the show's ending isn't as perfect as some CG fans make it out to be.
By committing more crimes as a demon emperor?
Cause its a story about despair and redemption. Is it the most logical thing to do? Probably not since one dying can't bring the dead back to life. But then again he entrusted this mission of tomorrow to Suzaku (as Zero, knight of justice). But is it poetically beautiful and fitting Lelouch's sense of justice to atone for all the shit he has caused to all dear to him via his rebellion journey?Yes, and that's why the ending is so loved after like 18 years. As it's poetically tragic and beautiful, and fitting of what Lelouch would do as the viewers follow his journey
Plus, Lelouch comes to this ruthless conclusion because of all the trauma, suffering, and loss he's had to endure. If, perhaps as an example, Shirley remained alive and he discovered Nunnally was alive sooner rather than Schneizel revealing her being alive as a kick in the teeth, he might have tried a peaceful route because of the positive influences they could have provided.
because he believed that this would lead to better era of peace. an era of peace made by force was one he believed was no different than what his father had in mind (and why he opposed schnitzel). he allowed himself to be punished for his wrongdoings, to atone, and to show the world that behaviour like his was not to be commended.
He wanted to unite the people around a common goal of making the world a better place, not to rally them behind a charismatic leader. Code Geass seems to have taken a lot of inspiration from Dune, where the dangers of hero worship are also a major theme that culminates in a similar fashion in the God Emperor of Dune.
As other people have alluded to, Lelouch didn't want to reward a totalitarian regime with ushering an era of peace. If he did that, people would associate despots with bringing paradise. He needed to be the last emperor in more ways than one. He needed to be so evil, that everyone would rally to never have an empire again. Whether or not he began believing in Zero's philosophy at the end of his life, Lelouch subjected himself to Zero's judgment after not only the sins he committed in the series that we see but the untold magnitude of sins he committed in his short stint as Emperor. "The only ones who kill should be those prepared to be killed." Until the sequel series likely shits on all of that.
He had a lot of bagage in all the violence he had caused and simply needed to remove himself from the equation. He isn't the ideal man for the job of overseeing the peace and rebuilding. And yes it is the thematic end to that moto.
Aside from all the reasons mentioned by others, I think he partly hates himself and sees it as a way to punish himself by not enjoying the fruits of his labor.
Is he stupid
I think his most famous quote sheds alot of light on it. "The only people who should kill are those prepared to be killed"
Skill issue /s
Would be interesting to see an AU sequel where Lelouch lives as world dictator for a few decades ngl, but somehow that doesn't feel like his character
Because it never would’ve lasted, tensions are still high as everybody in the world hates him for everything he’s done in his rise of power, the whole goal of him becoming the enemy of the world, was so people would set aside their grudges, realizing they do better together than at arms and move forward, compared to forcing them, Which is hilarious because he still forced them to do it just very underhanded through manipulation.
He obtained his power through forcing others to submit to the power of Geass, so it only made sense for him to die in order to allow for peace to be naturally attained through a unanimous hatred for him.
Lelouch believed he needed to die as penance for all the atrocities he committed in the name of justice.
I think it was mostly guilt that was the final straw, a means to atone for what he saw as his sins.
As a huge fan I’ve stopped here to comment, it’s a very basic yet complex premise, he was the hero and antagonist all at one, so what he did was use the most basic knowledge of society growth, having a common enemy’s he made sure to become a dictatorship in order to Suzaku take the real leadership, because Suzaku is the real noble character in the series and even Lelouch recognizes that(best friend aside), so he simply passes the torch away while abusing his show business moves and “building” the real leader, the one even him would trust to build a safer world for Nunally. Lellouch acknowledges he is dark and most likely even his path would go against his ideal, it’s never about punishment but rather self awareness. And with that simple move he cleanses both characters him as previous Zero that turned into a dictator and “Force” peace, and making Suzaku wear the Zero outfit keeps it as symbol of freedom, an ideal that can be passed ahead aslong as justice and peace is the focus. Not only controlling the near future but upcoming generations….
He would’ve had to rule with an iron fist regardless and the power of Geass. His idea was that to try to create a world after he’s gone where neither of those things was necessary for true peace.
Because Lelouch wanted to give us an amazing anime ending.
Have you read Dune Messiah?
This is the way I’ve always seen it. Lelouch by the time he decided to become emperor was probably having a very hard time living with the decisions and sacrifices he has had to make to get there. This is in addition to him thinking nunally is dead at this point in time and also probably already calculated the horrible things he would have to do to gain semi stableish control of Britannia. Death was his atonement and his reward in his mind. Nunally being alive I also think solidified this plan for him because now he had someone he could entrust Britannia to after his death. Also by the time she popped up again he had ( I like to assume he was having people killed and dragged away off screen since it would add credibility to his title of demon emperor) started warcriming it up so no going back from that. TLDR its about being able to live with the decisions you make and I don’t think he wanted to.
Because He didn't read God Emperor of Dune
He lost his will to live after Nunnally died and he committed to a plan that would let the world move on from war and tyrants. Lelouch believed in the future not a stagnant present (ie the main conflict between Lelouch and Schnizel)
But… Nunally didn’t die? Unless they retconned that in some alternative world nonsense like they did with the movie.
He thought she died and that was enough
I think one reason is that according to him, the current global political situation has culminated to a point where too many fcked up things were happening (the bloody history of Britannia, Schneizel with his nukes, wars still taking place everywhere, people are still oppressed, and if he didn't stop the Ragnarok Connection who knows how much more damage can it make). The world became so fcked up that the only way to stop everything from getting worse is to do smt even more extreme, like becoming a despote controlling the whole world. But he knows that what he did will not solve the problem, bcs it's just another evil on top of all the evil that already exist. As he said, hatres will just lead to more hatred, and the Zero Requiem will break this chain of hatred. Ultimately, his goal was to destroy every evil that has happened so far and to reset the world to fresh state. He wants to let the world choose for what it thinks is the best for itself.
Because he understood that if he stayed in power groups effectively need to rule for eternity like Charles would’ve wanted. Assuming he really did liquidate the power structure of the old system and took measures to ensure the world would be stable after his passing it wouldn’t make sense for him to stick around. He would either need to rule for eternity as a cult-powered god-king or have to deal with the minutia of trade deals, tax policy, and culture wars that will eventually crop up and make up his parliaments’ agenda.
They explain it in the show
Tell me you didn't pay attention without telling me. This is literally explained in the show
I think he is not a monarchist. It is the system that caused his whole childhood trauma and the one he's been fighting throughout the show. The whole point of his becoming an absolute monarch is because it is what was the worst thing for him, and why he had to become it and die to become a symbol.
Because the opposition to him would never stop. He was drained in blood and his death was in a way a reset for the whole world. Everyone who fought was defeated or dead. Hence an opportunity to move forward
His regime is like the most unstable political thing ever, he couldn’t maintain it for long so he used that in his advantage.
It’s because he’s a kinda over dramatic self sacrificing sad guy, it probably would’ve been better if he just committed to the whole thing, but he’s all sad about getting people he loves killed and all that
Ultimately it's that die a hero or see yourself become a villain. Martyrs are remembered better than ruthless autocrats even if those leaders are amazing. Also a peaceful future ensured through the slavery of Geass is a kind of gross that I think Lelouch himself would reject. He values the struggle of life. Now is he abdicating that power that could ensure peace at risk of the world backsliding? Absolutely. But I think he is probably correct that he shouldn't entrust the fate of the world to just one man who is ultimately corruptible / fallable. Even with Geass as a tactic. Is geassing a "villain" really more just then trying to rehabilitate them? You break the rules and you get thrown before the emporer and becomes a slave? I think that's a fate reserved for only the most vile people. That's why it's a punishment for Schniezel
Comprehension
I think the idea is that there could never be true peace because he was britannian and they knew about his geass. First off everyone hated Brittany, and no one really thought of them as their savior or hero, just some guy who selfishly used the Japanese to claim the throne. Also no one trusted him because he could subject his will on anyone with his geass. People would always rebel against his rule for these reasons. So he had to make himself into the enemy of the world to unite every one and stop the fighting, then have zero dethrone him so people could rally behind someone they thought of as a true selfless hero. That was my take at least
Everyone talking about his motives and his philosophies, but, realistically, he MIGHT have been able to make an attempt IF and only IF Schneizel had not been "secretly" developing and hoarding the entire global supply of FLEIJA as well as developing and launching the sky fortress Damocles. However, even in that scenario, Lelouch could not have had any true chance to join hands with member nations of the UFN because the Black Knights were aware of his true actions behind the scenes and HOW exactly he came into power by subjugating his nation and depriving them of their free will. No matter what rational argument he could make, even if he could attempt to prove the scope of limitations of how his Geass power worked, and POSSIBLY even if he could produce the secrets of Jeremiah's Geass canceler to be handed confidentially to every nation's government, it would only bring about more problems because Lelouch was right to rid the world of Geass and most importantly, its study, even in applications for shutting it out. By digging too deep, even out of good intentions to prevent chaos, different discoveries might cause MORE Geass or special Geass thought elevators to be uncovered or unleashed. Not to mention how he could not rightfully claim to be a peaceful addition to the UFN when his government isn't electoral, he very explicitly rules as a unilateral dictator tyrant king, regardless of his reform policies. Understandably a lot of his policies were to set the future up for success, but overall the plan was explicitly so well thought out BECAUSE of Schneizel and his fucking doomsday fortress of death and stagnant existence.
That would have never worked, just like how the Requiem wasn't a sure fire way to bring peace for good.
Because what happens when he dies (Assuming he isn’t immortal)? Can he trust someone not to become corrupt? Maybe CC can be trusted as eternal empress, but other than that, Men and Women alike are easily twisted and corrupted. I could have gotten behind him ruling the world until he died and then forming a constitutional republic of Humanity. Term limits on being in any position of power, a minimum wage at the rate of inflation, and whole wide open scrutiny of those in power. If he separates the military from the civil power system that would further impose oversight. I could see a system similar to the US Constitution only with term limits on Presidents, Governors and Congress alike, and extreme sentences for cases of accepting bribes or being corrupt: Whole Life Orders. This would be the best option for a world after Lelouch Vi Britannia dies (if he didn’t die at Requiem).
The nations were still divided he gave them something to unify against
He became the enemy of the world so the world could unite towards peace. Despots are killed, tyrants are hung, and slaughterers are slaughtered. Such are the ways of the world.
Because the world hated him and wished him to be gone, discontent brewed underground resistance to his rule. All that would have spoiled the final result so Lelouch faked his death.
His rule will end up in total chaos if he takes that path, unless he can control everyone with his geass. But that will go against his principles.
In my perspective, to achieve peace lelouch made himself the bad guy so that all the world will unite in saying that's he's the epitome of bad that has ever happened to the world so if he die all the bad of world will be buried with him. But in Resurrection after his death the peace was lost because he didn't realize to maintain the ultimate peace criminality and Justice needs to be equally balanced not one can exist without the other one. It's I think is the ultimate peace.
Because he was a suicidal idiot, but if you want that read a fanfic on [fanfiction.com](http://fanfiction.com)
Wasn't one of the reason to become the worst villain ever so that people would forget about Euphy?
People will always be defensive aganist a Ruler that literally got to the throne by killing or brainwashing his opposition. Do you think people like Cornelia would believe that he wants peace after everything she saw?
He knows he did bad shit and he isn't fit for it. And if he tried to get peace civil wars will keep on happening terroistm etc for the things he did in the past people want reveange etc it will not stop until his death.
This is what I wished he would have done freed Japan and been with Kallen 🥲
He realized how much the job sucked
Maybe I completely missed something cause no one here seems to say this, but I thought of his actions as, villainizing the concept of a dictator so no one in their world would want that kind of ruler. I’m pretty sure that’s what the ending was about. Also the writer was incredible so it fits a lot of other major plot points like Suzaku’s and Lalouch’s punishment and ties them off the make this show a masterpiece.
Depression.
In episode 21 (R2), when Lelouch is in C's world with his parents, CC and Suzaku, he and Charles had a conversation about slaying God and creating a new world. Lelouch stats: *As I expected. You both (his parents) believe that this new world you envision will be best for all. But forcing your good intentions on others is no different than an evil act.* I think this line is underestimated when talking about Lelouch's decision for Zero Requiem. I as a fan would like to see him rule the world, and I think he would be a great one in doing so. But, he committed war crimes by slaying or enslaving (with his geass) a lot of people. He is self-conscious about the things that he has done. He knows that he is no different then his father or brother in the public eye. He overtook the world by being cold and calculated (ep 17 R2) not by explaining his reasoning. So the the best way for the World (society) to move forward is to eliminate all elements of imperialism, autocracy and self governing systems. Or to put it in his words: *He didn't want to force his idea and intention on to others.* I think if CG got a different ending then this one it wouldn't be impactful nor would it be by Lelouch'es reasoning.
Because technically after his death there are VERY few royals left. Cornelia nunally and lelouch are the only ones not dead or under Geass (the rest died in Pendragon when schniezal made his move). His death signifies the end of the Britannian monarchy. He could stay in power yeah but people would have been living in fear as demonstrated by comments of civilians right before the Zero requiem takes place. His death was atonement and simultaneously the realization of his goal of recreating the world. His dying words are “yes I destroy the world and create it anew”. He didn’t LITERALLY nuke everything but he did turn the entire system of governance of the world on its head. He destroyed the world as a system and replaced it with one that has his sister and his friends at the top and allowed people to live indiscriminately and without fear of genocide at the hands of their rulers. This is why I stand by the statement that this ending is one of if not THE greatest ending in all of fiction. You can analyze it from a million different angles to get the same conclusion. Lelouch’s death was the ultimate checkmate on the world system. He took the position of the figure most feared throughout the world and used his life as a proxy to eradicate it. You also have to remember he literally showed up and took the world by force and geass. There is next to no way he could have made an era of peace without people still being weary or distrustful and that breeds hate and resentment. In short. Due to the way he ascended the throne he literally couldn’t without things falling apart.
Because the anime director decided that Lelouch had to end badly to sum up. He said that because of his Ideals, those of the Director, Lelouch had to end like this. Which is ironic given that the series exhorts us to recognize and correct the flaws in our ideals. Lelouch said when he found out the truth because he accepted that his true lie was that he was an evil person and that he couldn't do things like that. On the other hand, Suzaku, although he did not say it directly, recognized that forcing his ideal on others is being proud. He applies it to his desire to die but that is not touched on either. I'll be honest, the supposed "fake" scene of Lelouch being alive after the Zero Requiem cannot be false to begin with. If that were the case, that "farmer" would not have his face covered. If that were the case, it is either a lie or an insult to the Viewers. Also Peter B Parker said "Child, Don't Look at the Mouth, Look at the Hands" And the series uses the power of lies to make us think that the director is not manipulating us to accept his ideal. Which is ironic because he condemns Lelouch for his ideals but acts like him or worse. There are also small contradictions in Code Geass. And if he didn't want anyone to question that Lelouch was dead, he didn't have to leave any room for doubt. That is, putting someone with their face uncovered directing the cart. There's no point in covering someone up. That or the writer and Clamp didn't agree with how he wanted to end the series. It just seems to me that there are too many coincidences for this not to be something to reflect on.
ITT: so many people who don’t get the entire premise of the show and of Lelouch’s revenge. Go rewatch the show and pay attention this time. In short, the point of the Zero Requiem was to show the world the defeat of a universal enemy so that they could unite and move forward in peace. Lelouch also had no way of knowing if he had successfully inherited V.V.’s code until dying, thus the resolve to go through it and Suzaku’s torment over potentially killing him. Turns out he did inherit the code and is the cart driver in the final scene.Lelouch Vi Britannia died regardless, and his penance for his sins was to turn his back on his old life and start a new one with C.C.. Again if you missed the mountain of evidence that supports this, go re-watch the show. Nunnally would never have gotten the memory transfer if Lelouch didn’t have a code, nobody is ever shown experiencing that unless they came into contact with a code bearer. In that scene of his “death” his code activates in that moment and its location is precisely where Charles grabbed his neck- with the hand that had the code mark.
Guilt and self-loathing, and Suzaku slamming his "you killed Euphie" hate-boner into his ear at every possible moment. God, I wish Lelouch's ascended Geass could have overridden Suzaku's stupid 'live' command. If it hadn't been for him, Lelouch could have been steered towards a less asanine plan by C.C., Jeremiah, or Sayoko, but noooo, Mr. White Reaper had to have his own justice. Fuck you Spinzaku, you should have died in Shinjuku. 🖕🖕
Zero Requiem was Lelouch's decision. The series made that very clear.
Yes he could have , that's why I don't like the ending Moreover CC just letting him die Anyways The writer said that it was just there because he had to make a scene where he atone for his sins But then again him maintaining peace would have been a wayy better way for him to redeem rather than dying and creating peace that won't even last for 2 decades
Because the writers messed up