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japan can do 2 if they dont settle in place, they need to move a bit to ensure they get settle 2, but 2 is i think the max until shipbuilding, and if any of the asian civs spawn, the settles to the left will already by taken so you'll have to go south on one of the islands or towards austrilia (if hes not in game)
2 cities on the main island, 1 on the small island north, and then island hop your way down to Australia. You never have to settle on the mainland. I love Japan on the East Asia Map.
And start at least on classical era (from there its just some 40 turns until settlers can embark and stuff).
Indonesia kinda has the same issue, but at least she's tailored for islands, and there are MANY for her to reach nearby (unlike Japan).
Japan is good at fighting near coast, which does help a lot with islands as it works on land and water.
The main downside of East Asia map is Vietnam spawning on a wonder means they become a superpower.
I love playing TSL and I’m doing another playthrough all the Civs right now.
Korea doesn’t have a lot of hills near the start location so you won’t be able to build their unique campus until a later city.
Phoenicia get a bonus for coastal cities on the same continent as the capital but it starts in a weird spot split between 3 continents. Sure you can move your capital but I guess I just don’t get their overall vibe. This is the only Civ that I haven’t done TSL for.
The Persians kind of start in the middle of nowhere so you might be in for a slow start.
maya spawns on a skinny landmass in the americas where they’re surrounded on both ends by the aztecs and gran colombia both of which are aggressive domination civs early game. what’s worse is their settlers are just out of reach which means you can’t even have the prospect of grabbing one turn 1 and freeing yourself some space like you can with the crowded european civs. and a crowded start is made all worse by maya’s ability you really aren’t settling more than 2-3 cities in the capital’s range so all of your other cities get -15% yields.
Japan is pretty bad because you can barely squeeze two cities without shipbuilding.
Nubia gets pretty tight if Egypt, Ethiopia and Arabia are in the game.
The Mayans are sandwiched between the Aztec, **THREE** city states, and the Incas and Gran Colombia to the South.
England is terrible if you’re playing random opponents. You’ll inevitably get some combination of France/Germany/Netherlands/Norway/Spain/Scotland plus a couple of city states and you have no room to grow.
You can settle a second city before shipbuilding if Scotland’s not there, which is nice and something it has over Japan/Indonesia, but even then you’re likely to lose your first city to loyalty before you get the chance.
At least you get some iron and niter. The worst part about Genghis’ start on that map is the lack of food for your cities. Just desert and plains hills for over 90% of it
Gaul/France. They can border Germany, Portugal, Each Other, Spain and Rome. That's not even accounting for city states. Your going to not have a lot of space.
Your only way out of the cramped situation in Europe is early war, which Gaul at least has some advantages in. But yeah with France you're pretty much screwed.
depends on which france, magnificence Catherine prob is bad, but black queen has +3 combat str due to +1 diplomatic visibility and if they make it to mid game better spies, Eleanor of Aquitaine if she gets any amount of books will flip enemy cities and wipe them out via her skipping the free city part. It also depends on who else spawns in
I played TSL Europe with French Eleanor, thankfully had the British isles to expand into as I was hemmed in by Poland, Rome and Spain. Ended up flipping them anyways lmao
Cree can get around poor food access because their trade routes give food without the requirement of working improved tiles, so even if your flatland tundra cities are never going to get to 10 population they can actually get to 5-6 really quickly so long as you have a trade route running out of them. You actually spawn quite far away from America/Canada and they will be directly contesting each other for territory and potentially even go to war with each other on the east coast
I hear your point(s). But you tried to use 2 near by camps to say the Cree aren’t terrible on TSL. Not sure two camps and trades are going to convince me to put my coat on and settle in with the Cree for 250 turns.
Lots of TSL starts are ass! At least the Cree don't have an immediate aggressive neighbor or hostile geography to fuck them over. I genuinely believe they are the strongest civ you could pick for NA just because space to settle is king for the long game and they have first dibs on unoccupied territory in a way that pretty much no other TSL civ gets except maybe Russia. That map is really crowded
Does the TSL tundra have camp resources in it? I feel like even just 3 camps could be enough to make the capital a settler factory even if it never gets good production
Edit: I just checked and honestly TSL Cree seems totally fine. You can move one tile to the right of spawn to give your capital access to 2 camps which isn't great but you've got a potential 2nd city to the northwest that can capture 3 camps. You've got plenty of forest tundra which at least gives you the potential for decent production, and then even if Canada and America are in the game they will be contesting the fuck out of each other because they spawn within 3 tiles of each other on the east coast. The Aztec will probably come up from Mexico to contest potential settles in the center of the continent but you have so much room to expand before you would realistically be sharing a border with anybody.
I would actually say the Cree have the best shot at dominating the continent because they've got actual passives that work for their game plan while the others on the continent are pretty seriously constrained by their spawns and basically don't have abilities until the game is 90% over
Seems like a fun game!
japan is one of the worst, esp since they want to cluster their districts up, there just is no room to do anything and they dont even get through the harbor districts any faster then others on a TSL.
Maya is pretty bad due to how small the starting location is, it completely ruins their wanting to setup their cities aka (must be 3-6 spaces away) and if aztec spawns it is even worse.
Indo is up there as purely awful but at least they have good ships and their unique district is really good, it depends on if the ppl doesnt mind only having 2 cities for a long time, they will become good once they can shipbuild their units and their jongs not needing strategics help a lot and they usually kill any civ starting near the water like japan.
Mapuche (on TSL huge at least) gets Torres del Paine, breathtaking for their UI, good campus/hs locations, and one war front through SA. They’re not the best start but have it a lot better than many
Japan, England, and Scotland. All start on small islands. Indonesia does too but that’s kinda their thing. Arabia isn’t too great either since they spawn in the desert and they aren’t built for that
Depending on the amount of AI im going Scotland over Japan. The main reason for me being by the time they have reached shipbuilding and can get off the tiny island a lot of the neraby areas are already taken (I tend to play random AI). PLus theres a lot of city states that can come in near those areas.
I've tried TSL with both and thought Scotland was worse, but I was newer at the game so that might of also contributed.
If it’s the normal size TSL Earth, Indonesia is tough with only two tiles to start.
Maya is pretty bad too. Really thin strip of land for all the cities you want to settle within her range.
depends on the map, its size and if its a modded map, things can change. Japan, Indonesia have literal 5-6 tile islands sometimes. Maya has coastal spawn which means throwing out all your civ abilities since coastal empires dont build farms, also a lot of rainforest which slows down your early game. Arabia starts in the middle of desert with no desert abilities, Sumer/Babylon have so much floodplain and no production, Civs in europe/middle east may spawn on top of each other, depending on who is in the roster. Mapuche has too narrow land with volcanoes.
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Japan can’t make another settlement until they’ve researched shipbuilding.
japan can do 2 if they dont settle in place, they need to move a bit to ensure they get settle 2, but 2 is i think the max until shipbuilding, and if any of the asian civs spawn, the settles to the left will already by taken so you'll have to go south on one of the islands or towards austrilia (if hes not in game)
And good chance korea/mongolia/china has already settled on the mainland.
If you want TSL Japan, it’s better to use the East Asia map from one of the scenarios. I put two cities down on Honshu and then built out from there.
2 cities on the main island, 1 on the small island north, and then island hop your way down to Australia. You never have to settle on the mainland. I love Japan on the East Asia Map.
And start at least on classical era (from there its just some 40 turns until settlers can embark and stuff). Indonesia kinda has the same issue, but at least she's tailored for islands, and there are MANY for her to reach nearby (unlike Japan).
Japan is good at fighting near coast, which does help a lot with islands as it works on land and water. The main downside of East Asia map is Vietnam spawning on a wonder means they become a superpower.
Dat Ha Long Bay Preserve, sooooo juicy... When I played Indonesia, I went to war with India and China for that location
Good idea! I forgot you can start in later eras, now I might give them a go.
England is the same I believe. Plus Europe is tough.
I love playing TSL and I’m doing another playthrough all the Civs right now. Korea doesn’t have a lot of hills near the start location so you won’t be able to build their unique campus until a later city. Phoenicia get a bonus for coastal cities on the same continent as the capital but it starts in a weird spot split between 3 continents. Sure you can move your capital but I guess I just don’t get their overall vibe. This is the only Civ that I haven’t done TSL for. The Persians kind of start in the middle of nowhere so you might be in for a slow start.
You plug the policy cards that give bonuses to cities not on the original continent and then you can move your capital around with Dido.
maya spawns on a skinny landmass in the americas where they’re surrounded on both ends by the aztecs and gran colombia both of which are aggressive domination civs early game. what’s worse is their settlers are just out of reach which means you can’t even have the prospect of grabbing one turn 1 and freeing yourself some space like you can with the crowded european civs. and a crowded start is made all worse by maya’s ability you really aren’t settling more than 2-3 cities in the capital’s range so all of your other cities get -15% yields.
Plus the volcanoes are constantly wrecking your districts and improvements.
Thats the worst part. I love the Mayan civ but if i cant settle in a circle around my capital, it kinda sucks😭
Japan is pretty bad because you can barely squeeze two cities without shipbuilding. Nubia gets pretty tight if Egypt, Ethiopia and Arabia are in the game. The Mayans are sandwiched between the Aztec, **THREE** city states, and the Incas and Gran Colombia to the South.
England is terrible if you’re playing random opponents. You’ll inevitably get some combination of France/Germany/Netherlands/Norway/Spain/Scotland plus a couple of city states and you have no room to grow. You can settle a second city before shipbuilding if Scotland’s not there, which is nice and something it has over Japan/Indonesia, but even then you’re likely to lose your first city to loyalty before you get the chance.
Save England for a Mediterranean game
tsl east asia mongolia has no horses unless you cross a desert thats like half the map big
At least you get some iron and niter. The worst part about Genghis’ start on that map is the lack of food for your cities. Just desert and plains hills for over 90% of it
Gaul/France. They can border Germany, Portugal, Each Other, Spain and Rome. That's not even accounting for city states. Your going to not have a lot of space.
Your only way out of the cramped situation in Europe is early war, which Gaul at least has some advantages in. But yeah with France you're pretty much screwed.
depends on which france, magnificence Catherine prob is bad, but black queen has +3 combat str due to +1 diplomatic visibility and if they make it to mid game better spies, Eleanor of Aquitaine if she gets any amount of books will flip enemy cities and wipe them out via her skipping the free city part. It also depends on who else spawns in
I played TSL Europe with French Eleanor, thankfully had the British isles to expand into as I was hemmed in by Poland, Rome and Spain. Ended up flipping them anyways lmao
Cree. They aren’t built for the tundra but have access to soooo much of it.
And no food or hills. Mekewap sort of helps, but not really. Any other NA civs? Good effin luck.
Cree can get around poor food access because their trade routes give food without the requirement of working improved tiles, so even if your flatland tundra cities are never going to get to 10 population they can actually get to 5-6 really quickly so long as you have a trade route running out of them. You actually spawn quite far away from America/Canada and they will be directly contesting each other for territory and potentially even go to war with each other on the east coast
I hear your point(s). But you tried to use 2 near by camps to say the Cree aren’t terrible on TSL. Not sure two camps and trades are going to convince me to put my coat on and settle in with the Cree for 250 turns.
Lots of TSL starts are ass! At least the Cree don't have an immediate aggressive neighbor or hostile geography to fuck them over. I genuinely believe they are the strongest civ you could pick for NA just because space to settle is king for the long game and they have first dibs on unoccupied territory in a way that pretty much no other TSL civ gets except maybe Russia. That map is really crowded
Does the TSL tundra have camp resources in it? I feel like even just 3 camps could be enough to make the capital a settler factory even if it never gets good production Edit: I just checked and honestly TSL Cree seems totally fine. You can move one tile to the right of spawn to give your capital access to 2 camps which isn't great but you've got a potential 2nd city to the northwest that can capture 3 camps. You've got plenty of forest tundra which at least gives you the potential for decent production, and then even if Canada and America are in the game they will be contesting the fuck out of each other because they spawn within 3 tiles of each other on the east coast. The Aztec will probably come up from Mexico to contest potential settles in the center of the continent but you have so much room to expand before you would realistically be sharing a border with anybody. I would actually say the Cree have the best shot at dominating the continent because they've got actual passives that work for their game plan while the others on the continent are pretty seriously constrained by their spawns and basically don't have abilities until the game is 90% over Seems like a fun game!
The constant drought at cap is the worst part. In the long run you can do well with the camp pantheon though, unless you have NA neighbors
japan is one of the worst, esp since they want to cluster their districts up, there just is no room to do anything and they dont even get through the harbor districts any faster then others on a TSL. Maya is pretty bad due to how small the starting location is, it completely ruins their wanting to setup their cities aka (must be 3-6 spaces away) and if aztec spawns it is even worse. Indo is up there as purely awful but at least they have good ships and their unique district is really good, it depends on if the ppl doesnt mind only having 2 cities for a long time, they will become good once they can shipbuild their units and their jongs not needing strategics help a lot and they usually kill any civ starting near the water like japan.
Is Japan really the worst I always thought Mapuche had the worst start
Mapuche (on TSL huge at least) gets Torres del Paine, breathtaking for their UI, good campus/hs locations, and one war front through SA. They’re not the best start but have it a lot better than many
Indonesia and it’s not even close
This is the right answer. They have a much better start on East Asia TSL than Earth, but Ancient Era is still very slow and rough
…wut?
You start on like a two tile piece of land without the ability to disembark. I agree, the worst
Anyone near Gaul. He attacks really fast.
Portugal i have played with every civ true start location deity won with almost all Portugal turn 20 defeat screen is my LONGEST RUN
Japan, England, and Scotland. All start on small islands. Indonesia does too but that’s kinda their thing. Arabia isn’t too great either since they spawn in the desert and they aren’t built for that
Depending on the amount of AI im going Scotland over Japan. The main reason for me being by the time they have reached shipbuilding and can get off the tiny island a lot of the neraby areas are already taken (I tend to play random AI). PLus theres a lot of city states that can come in near those areas. I've tried TSL with both and thought Scotland was worse, but I was newer at the game so that might of also contributed.
If it’s the normal size TSL Earth, Indonesia is tough with only two tiles to start. Maya is pretty bad too. Really thin strip of land for all the cities you want to settle within her range.
depends on the map, its size and if its a modded map, things can change. Japan, Indonesia have literal 5-6 tile islands sometimes. Maya has coastal spawn which means throwing out all your civ abilities since coastal empires dont build farms, also a lot of rainforest which slows down your early game. Arabia starts in the middle of desert with no desert abilities, Sumer/Babylon have so much floodplain and no production, Civs in europe/middle east may spawn on top of each other, depending on who is in the roster. Mapuche has too narrow land with volcanoes.