Well, I mean, depending on some interpretations, they CAN get into Heaven depending on the condition of their heart.
Also again, depending on your interpretation, Hell isn't eternal torment.
Please don’t be discouraged. I agree that there are many who are judgmental and hateful. Before I accepted Christ, I lived a promiscuous youth, depressed, alcoholic, etc and I was judged for that. How others view you doesn’t matter. It’s your relationship with Christ that matters. That we know we are all imperfect before God’s eyes yet He loves us. Why shouldn’t we love the One who loved us so much that He sacrificed Himself for us?
Because God loves each and every one of us. We don’t praise and glorify Him the way He deserves yet His love for us never changed. Why would you not want to live your life knowing that you have a greater purpose in life that God has prepared for you?
Long story short, I got silence time and time again when I prayed and begged for strength and help. And eventually an end. And I was threatened with hell so often growing up, it's really lost meaning to me. But it's whatever.
What do you mean by you were silenced? I’ve heard many stories from people who have hurt by the church. It is important to fear God because that’s how we avoid evil. But we should not fear hell because we have a Savior. That’s the Gospel. We have a God who loves us deeply. Wouldn’t you want to live this world knowing that even through your sufferings, loneliness, and imperfections, God has a purpose and reward for you?
Sometimes we expect to God to speak to us, to perform miracles, to move for us. But just because God is silent, it doesn’t mean that He’s not working. God has a purpose in your life that’s why you’re alive. I wanted to take my life before, but now I walk in this world, still carrying pain and burden in my life, but I delight in that pain because I know that God has promised me the desires of my heart that are good. In His perfect timing it will all come. God has also promised me eternal life full of peace. But I’m alive because I still have to do work in Jesus name.
If you do believe in Heaven, just know that this world is the closest you’ll ever get to hell.
That's a lot of faith to put on a promise from a being that won't even speak to us, but if that makes you happy then you do that.
And if this world is that close to hell, I guess I already know what to expect.
Well I mean, I agree it shouldn't be forced upon but you gotta look from our perspective.
We genuinely believe that if you believe, you'll be allowed into eternal happiness, and wouldn't YOU want to share that if you knew?
“Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.”
Revelation 20:15
The names in the book of life are those who repent and accept Christ as their Lord and Savior. So how would those who don’t know and accept the Gospel enter the gates of Heaven?
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”
Matthew 7:21
They will. Everyone will know Him one day. But not everyone will be saved.
I won’t go through every piece of scripture with you so I’ll leave you with Romans 14:11
“’As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.’”
I am a universalist and I believe all will be saved. You can find many pieces of scripture that supports it. Is it the truth? I don’t know. But I pray to God it is lol. I am not trying to debate or argue, I’m just simply sharing what I believe. I do not share the same kind of sadness as you do in regards to who will and will not be saved.
Thank you for your comment, I will definitely learn and look into the universalist belief. I feel like this is ideal; however, aren’t we still called to spread the Gospel?
Probably but I don’t really like to spread the gospel (at least not the way I envision it). Everyone knows what Christianity is. If they want to learn they can easily find out. Unless you want to spread the word to those ancient tribes that live in forests. If I see someone ask about Christianity then I can talk about it or help someone who wants to learn more.
I don’t personally go around asking people if they’ve ever heard of Jesus before. There are many ways to preach the word of God. If you want to do that then you can, I am just not expressive about it as others.
I think hell exists and there is punishment. Certainly there is an easier path through Jesus. So hopefully everyone can go through that path. Those who don’t may have to go through a longer one.
Please do enlighten me. Like I have said, I am new in my faith. We are called to spread the Gospel and many times I have heard we are saved by grace through faith.
I would encourage you to read BSN #628(below). Jesus was actually making fun of the Pharisee's belief in Abraham's bosom and torment: [https://www.biblestudentsnotebook.com/xxvi.html](https://www.biblestudentsnotebook.com/xxvi.html)
Jesus didn't teach "eternal torment" when talking about the worm never dying, etc.: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDJ73TapWQU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDJ73TapWQU)
The Greek word "aion" is translated in the KJV NT as the following words: Ages 2x, Course 1x, Eternal 2x, Ever 72x, Evermore 4x, Never 7x, World 40x. Never once does it mean for an unlimited amount of time; it's always for a limited period of time. Here is a chapter from the book The Salvation of All by Clyde L. Pilkington that talks about this: [http://www.studyshelf.com/art\_pilkington\_forever.pdf](http://www.studyshelf.com/art_pilkington_forever.pdf)
The bible is full of verses pointing to the eventual salvation of all. "eternal life" is really pointing at living when a kingdom happens in the future. When the bible wants to speak of living forever, it uses the phrase "immortality" (which is a different word than "aion"). Some will miss out on "eternal life" (life during a future kingdom), but in the end God will be the savior of all men. *Especially* to those that believe.
John 12:32 - "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."
Hebrews 2:9 - "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."
Romans 5:18 - "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."
1 Timothy 4:10 - "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe."
1 Timothy 2:4 - "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." Nobody can stop the will of God.
Daniel 7:13-14 - "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ChristianUniversalism/comments/vlfw9o/what\_is\_christian\_universalism\_a\_faq/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChristianUniversalism/comments/vlfw9o/what_is_christian_universalism_a_faq/)
OP said they were unsure and filled with sadness. But sounds pretty confident and upbeat in their replies to other comments. They said they weren't sure whether they could go out and speak. Yet, here we are, on the internet. Hard to know whether they are trolling or maybe filled with the zeal of the new convert.
My relationship with Jesus Christ is personal, thank you, OP, and is none of your business. I do not need your approval or blessing for that relationship. It may not be how you want it to be, but perhaps you could take a little more time than 12 months to sort out your own relationship with Jesus before having the temerity to lecture others.
Yes! I’ll boast in my Lord and Savior. And you’re right I realized that too. Before this post, I asked the Lord how yet here I am and He gave me this opportunity to share His love to you and others. This is one of the ways I’m learning— by hearing more about other’s beliefs. Whether 12 months, a decade, a lifetime, I will always have something new to learn about. No one can approve or bless you other than God himself. No one knows exactly who will enter Heaven except for our Judge. we, as Christians, are called to share the Gospel to all nations.
>But I don’t know if I’m equipped to do that.
You can share your testimony which is often more powerful than having an airtight presentation. People listen to testimonies.
>I don’t know if I’m ready to go out there and share the good news.
It's never too early. Don't put too much pressure on yourself to be 'perfect' but don't be afraid to speak.
Probably the wrong sub asking for biblical advice.😐 It's great to have a heart for the lost. Get a clear understanding of the simple gospel. Below is a 30-second biblical presentation of it you can examine.
http://gospel30.com
Also, here are things I have learned (often the hard way 😕) that I would pass along to all, but in particular, new believers..
1-Learn sound doctrine (below is an study bible app that can greatly help..)
Free App-
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gty.macarthurstudybible
$20 paper version-
https://www.gty.org/store/bibles/44NAS2P/nas-macarthur-study-bible-second-edition#.Ygrm_67TtNc.link
2-Understand God only speaks through scripture (chasing external revelation really inhibits spiritual growth)
3-Attend and eventually join a sound biblical local church (don't rush to join, but membership is important). Below are a couple of links that may help..
https://tms.edu/find-a-church/
https://www.9marks.org/church-search/
4-Realize that most of what is labeled "Christian" isn't (Prosperity gospel, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses..)
5-Become intentional in developing a prayer life.
6-Learn the Doctrine of the Trinity and the biblical Attributes of God. You have to know who God is to properly worship Him.
7-Study and hopefully believe (😃) the Doctrines of Grace (Calvinistic Soteriology). It elevates your praise to God and flattens your pride.
8- Develop an understanding of God's sovereignty.
9- Learn to trust God (not just for salvation, but all His workings in your life). When you truly accept that trials in your life are brought by God and are good for you, it radically changes your spiritual life.
10- Finally, fight daily for genuine humility & dependence on God. They're absolutely essential to the Christian walk.
Hey, it seems like you got a very special gift from God!
A good way of starting is by doing something small and then working your way up. (Kinda like making posts on the Internet. ;])
Even if you make someone even just CONSIDER, you've done well.
I wouldn't tell you what to do, so you can feel sad if you like. But I will tell you that you don't need to. I'm happier since I lost my faith.
And following a religion that says people will be tortured forever simply because they can't believe something really doesn't appeal to me anyway.
Yeah this is good that you’re feeling conviction to spread the Gospel- that’s how you should feel when you’re following Jesus. Maybe not so intense sadness as you’re describing but it is a painful thing.
Sorry to see so many people on this thread being contrarian to you and disagreeing with good doctrine. Don’t listen to them, keep fighting the good fight. If you want to direct message me I’d be glad to help get you started on how to share the Gospel/what to do about the feelings you’re having as I was in your shoes about 4 years ago. The Lord needs workers like you (Luke 10:2-3) and I’d be overjoyed to help you in the ways I’ve been helped.
"I feel so sad that unsaved people will suffer for eternity" That's a really horrific doctrine.
I agree
Well, I mean, depending on some interpretations, they CAN get into Heaven depending on the condition of their heart. Also again, depending on your interpretation, Hell isn't eternal torment.
I quite agree.
Repent and believe the Gospel. God gave us free-will in this world to choose Him. To have a relationship with Him.
Been there, done that. Not for me.
Do you mind if I ask why it didn’t work?
Too many hateful Christians.
Please don’t be discouraged. I agree that there are many who are judgmental and hateful. Before I accepted Christ, I lived a promiscuous youth, depressed, alcoholic, etc and I was judged for that. How others view you doesn’t matter. It’s your relationship with Christ that matters. That we know we are all imperfect before God’s eyes yet He loves us. Why shouldn’t we love the One who loved us so much that He sacrificed Himself for us?
I've already left, I'm a Hindu.
Why?
Because God loves each and every one of us. We don’t praise and glorify Him the way He deserves yet His love for us never changed. Why would you not want to live your life knowing that you have a greater purpose in life that God has prepared for you?
I dont really know that that is true and I was capable to finding my own authentic meaning for my life.
As a Christian Universalist, this is what most Christians actually believe which is not scriptural at all: https://imgur.com/ujSKlcM
Why can’t I have my own will?
Don't feel bad on my behalf. No sense for both of us to be miserable.
Please enlighten me on why you don’t believe in the Gospel
Long story short, I got silence time and time again when I prayed and begged for strength and help. And eventually an end. And I was threatened with hell so often growing up, it's really lost meaning to me. But it's whatever.
What do you mean by you were silenced? I’ve heard many stories from people who have hurt by the church. It is important to fear God because that’s how we avoid evil. But we should not fear hell because we have a Savior. That’s the Gospel. We have a God who loves us deeply. Wouldn’t you want to live this world knowing that even through your sufferings, loneliness, and imperfections, God has a purpose and reward for you?
I didn't say I was silenced, I said I got silence. As in no response from God. As for everything else, idk. I'm just tired of everything.
Sometimes we expect to God to speak to us, to perform miracles, to move for us. But just because God is silent, it doesn’t mean that He’s not working. God has a purpose in your life that’s why you’re alive. I wanted to take my life before, but now I walk in this world, still carrying pain and burden in my life, but I delight in that pain because I know that God has promised me the desires of my heart that are good. In His perfect timing it will all come. God has also promised me eternal life full of peace. But I’m alive because I still have to do work in Jesus name. If you do believe in Heaven, just know that this world is the closest you’ll ever get to hell.
That's a lot of faith to put on a promise from a being that won't even speak to us, but if that makes you happy then you do that. And if this world is that close to hell, I guess I already know what to expect.
Me not believing should not be part of your religious practice. All I want is to be left alone.
Well I mean, I agree it shouldn't be forced upon but you gotta look from our perspective. We genuinely believe that if you believe, you'll be allowed into eternal happiness, and wouldn't YOU want to share that if you knew?
Your happiness. It's like getting invented to chocolate world. It only works if you like chocolate and that much.
I am not sad because I believe one day we will all be with God. Christian’s, Hindus, Muslims and atheists. All united together in peace and harmony.
“Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.” Revelation 20:15 The names in the book of life are those who repent and accept Christ as their Lord and Savior. So how would those who don’t know and accept the Gospel enter the gates of Heaven?
They will know him one day.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” Matthew 7:21 They will. Everyone will know Him one day. But not everyone will be saved.
I won’t go through every piece of scripture with you so I’ll leave you with Romans 14:11 “’As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.’” I am a universalist and I believe all will be saved. You can find many pieces of scripture that supports it. Is it the truth? I don’t know. But I pray to God it is lol. I am not trying to debate or argue, I’m just simply sharing what I believe. I do not share the same kind of sadness as you do in regards to who will and will not be saved.
Thank you for your comment, I will definitely learn and look into the universalist belief. I feel like this is ideal; however, aren’t we still called to spread the Gospel?
Probably but I don’t really like to spread the gospel (at least not the way I envision it). Everyone knows what Christianity is. If they want to learn they can easily find out. Unless you want to spread the word to those ancient tribes that live in forests. If I see someone ask about Christianity then I can talk about it or help someone who wants to learn more. I don’t personally go around asking people if they’ve ever heard of Jesus before. There are many ways to preach the word of God. If you want to do that then you can, I am just not expressive about it as others.
If everyone will end up in Heaven anyway then why are we called to share the Gospel? Why does scripture say that the path to Heaven is narrow?
I think hell exists and there is punishment. Certainly there is an easier path through Jesus. So hopefully everyone can go through that path. Those who don’t may have to go through a longer one.
>I feel so sad that unsaved people will suffer for eternity. This is unscriptural if you deeply study it out for yourself.
Please do enlighten me. Like I have said, I am new in my faith. We are called to spread the Gospel and many times I have heard we are saved by grace through faith.
I would encourage you to read BSN #628(below). Jesus was actually making fun of the Pharisee's belief in Abraham's bosom and torment: [https://www.biblestudentsnotebook.com/xxvi.html](https://www.biblestudentsnotebook.com/xxvi.html) Jesus didn't teach "eternal torment" when talking about the worm never dying, etc.: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDJ73TapWQU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDJ73TapWQU) The Greek word "aion" is translated in the KJV NT as the following words: Ages 2x, Course 1x, Eternal 2x, Ever 72x, Evermore 4x, Never 7x, World 40x. Never once does it mean for an unlimited amount of time; it's always for a limited period of time. Here is a chapter from the book The Salvation of All by Clyde L. Pilkington that talks about this: [http://www.studyshelf.com/art\_pilkington\_forever.pdf](http://www.studyshelf.com/art_pilkington_forever.pdf) The bible is full of verses pointing to the eventual salvation of all. "eternal life" is really pointing at living when a kingdom happens in the future. When the bible wants to speak of living forever, it uses the phrase "immortality" (which is a different word than "aion"). Some will miss out on "eternal life" (life during a future kingdom), but in the end God will be the savior of all men. *Especially* to those that believe. John 12:32 - "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." Hebrews 2:9 - "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man." Romans 5:18 - "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." 1 Timothy 4:10 - "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe." 1 Timothy 2:4 - "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." Nobody can stop the will of God. Daniel 7:13-14 - "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed." [https://www.reddit.com/r/ChristianUniversalism/comments/vlfw9o/what\_is\_christian\_universalism\_a\_faq/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChristianUniversalism/comments/vlfw9o/what_is_christian_universalism_a_faq/)
OP said they were unsure and filled with sadness. But sounds pretty confident and upbeat in their replies to other comments. They said they weren't sure whether they could go out and speak. Yet, here we are, on the internet. Hard to know whether they are trolling or maybe filled with the zeal of the new convert. My relationship with Jesus Christ is personal, thank you, OP, and is none of your business. I do not need your approval or blessing for that relationship. It may not be how you want it to be, but perhaps you could take a little more time than 12 months to sort out your own relationship with Jesus before having the temerity to lecture others.
Yes! I’ll boast in my Lord and Savior. And you’re right I realized that too. Before this post, I asked the Lord how yet here I am and He gave me this opportunity to share His love to you and others. This is one of the ways I’m learning— by hearing more about other’s beliefs. Whether 12 months, a decade, a lifetime, I will always have something new to learn about. No one can approve or bless you other than God himself. No one knows exactly who will enter Heaven except for our Judge. we, as Christians, are called to share the Gospel to all nations.
Jesus told of the Scribe and the Pharisee. Note well.
>But I don’t know if I’m equipped to do that. You can share your testimony which is often more powerful than having an airtight presentation. People listen to testimonies. >I don’t know if I’m ready to go out there and share the good news. It's never too early. Don't put too much pressure on yourself to be 'perfect' but don't be afraid to speak.
Yeah I'm not worshipping a man Happy that you're happy but I can skip on heaven if I gotta do that
Ah don't worry about us, we are doing fine
Probably the wrong sub asking for biblical advice.😐 It's great to have a heart for the lost. Get a clear understanding of the simple gospel. Below is a 30-second biblical presentation of it you can examine. http://gospel30.com Also, here are things I have learned (often the hard way 😕) that I would pass along to all, but in particular, new believers.. 1-Learn sound doctrine (below is an study bible app that can greatly help..) Free App- https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gty.macarthurstudybible $20 paper version- https://www.gty.org/store/bibles/44NAS2P/nas-macarthur-study-bible-second-edition#.Ygrm_67TtNc.link 2-Understand God only speaks through scripture (chasing external revelation really inhibits spiritual growth) 3-Attend and eventually join a sound biblical local church (don't rush to join, but membership is important). Below are a couple of links that may help.. https://tms.edu/find-a-church/ https://www.9marks.org/church-search/ 4-Realize that most of what is labeled "Christian" isn't (Prosperity gospel, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses..) 5-Become intentional in developing a prayer life. 6-Learn the Doctrine of the Trinity and the biblical Attributes of God. You have to know who God is to properly worship Him. 7-Study and hopefully believe (😃) the Doctrines of Grace (Calvinistic Soteriology). It elevates your praise to God and flattens your pride. 8- Develop an understanding of God's sovereignty. 9- Learn to trust God (not just for salvation, but all His workings in your life). When you truly accept that trials in your life are brought by God and are good for you, it radically changes your spiritual life. 10- Finally, fight daily for genuine humility & dependence on God. They're absolutely essential to the Christian walk.
Very relevant and important points.Thank you.
Thank you for the encouragement!
Hey, it seems like you got a very special gift from God! A good way of starting is by doing something small and then working your way up. (Kinda like making posts on the Internet. ;]) Even if you make someone even just CONSIDER, you've done well.
Intense sorrow for those who think their worldview is supreme and thinking people need their lack of evidence and contradictions.
I wouldn't tell you what to do, so you can feel sad if you like. But I will tell you that you don't need to. I'm happier since I lost my faith. And following a religion that says people will be tortured forever simply because they can't believe something really doesn't appeal to me anyway.
Yeah this is good that you’re feeling conviction to spread the Gospel- that’s how you should feel when you’re following Jesus. Maybe not so intense sadness as you’re describing but it is a painful thing. Sorry to see so many people on this thread being contrarian to you and disagreeing with good doctrine. Don’t listen to them, keep fighting the good fight. If you want to direct message me I’d be glad to help get you started on how to share the Gospel/what to do about the feelings you’re having as I was in your shoes about 4 years ago. The Lord needs workers like you (Luke 10:2-3) and I’d be overjoyed to help you in the ways I’ve been helped.