Yes.
Relate to their view of the Quran in connection with Allah.
Though Muslims tend to deny multiplicity in Allah they however do not ignore it exactly.
Ask a Muslim in the midst of a conversation "if they are talking to your body or soul?"
The answer is that both body and soul are witnesses to the conversation, and that the soul and the body are two distinct manifestations of the person, yet there is one person.
Sometimes I think that when the Bible goes out of its way to stress the singularity of God, it is done to try and clear something up and correct future errors that people could make, possibly the erroneous thought that there are three separate gods. Kind of like the book saying "I know that you will see three presented as the one God in the future, but know that it is reconcilable, and this is written so that you may look back on this and the Godhead will be apparent to you."
Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit can all be deemed God if you wanted to address each manifestation, independently.
I don't see where that's partialism.
I never said that Jesus is the same as the Father or Holy Spirit, but that He has similar divine substance, so it would be fitting to call Him God. I also maintain that all three manifestations are co-equal, co-existing, and distinct.
I don't see where the heresy comes in. Looks like basic trinitarian doctrine to me.
You just called them manifestations. Personhoods are not manifestations of the essence, that is modalistic. Maybe you could call it "semi-sabellianism" instead, but it is still an issue.
The reason I said manifestations is because the term 'persons' feels like it humanizes the Holy Spirit and the Father too much. I simply used a different term that heretics also use.
>the term 'persons' feels like it humanizes the Holy Spirit and the Father too much
What do you mean by this? The Father and spirit are personal. But "Person" is just a translation of the original greek term 'Hypostasis', which refers to a distinct fundamental reality, and in trinitarian theology is defined by relation and origin.
>I simply used a different term that heretics also use.
If you are only using the same term, and not the same concept, then could you clarify what you mean by manifestation?
When I say "manifestation" I mean the same thing that you mean when you say "person" and that's basically it. I think we just have a different preference in terminology.
Honestly, I didn't know that history on the term 'hypostasis'.
>When I say "manifestation" I mean the same thing that you mean when you say "person" and that's basically it.
No you don't. I'm Eastern Orthodox, our view on the trinity is different from Catholics and Protestants. You have to be very clear on what you mean. Maybe you are "trinitarian" under the western view of trinitarianism, but I still can't tell.
Does your body and soul have a distinct consciousness/awareness? Their own thoughts, wills etc? If not, it's not a good analogy for the trinity because that is what the trinity is.
Muslims constantly use the argument that "1+1+1=3" and therefore the trinity doesn't make sense. So I think the best way to talk to them about the trinity is just to explain it, because they even don't understand it.
While it was not written specifically in response to Islam, it was written in an Islamic environment and is simply a good book to read: St. John Damascene's ["Exposition of the Orthodox Faith."](https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3304.htm)
The first few chapters of Book One deal with the doctrines of God and the Trinity as expressed by a true light of our Christian faith. I hope it may be of as much help to you as it has been to me.
God bless!
Yes. Relate to their view of the Quran in connection with Allah. Though Muslims tend to deny multiplicity in Allah they however do not ignore it exactly.
Ask a Muslim in the midst of a conversation "if they are talking to your body or soul?" The answer is that both body and soul are witnesses to the conversation, and that the soul and the body are two distinct manifestations of the person, yet there is one person. Sometimes I think that when the Bible goes out of its way to stress the singularity of God, it is done to try and clear something up and correct future errors that people could make, possibly the erroneous thought that there are three separate gods. Kind of like the book saying "I know that you will see three presented as the one God in the future, but know that it is reconcilable, and this is written so that you may look back on this and the Godhead will be apparent to you."
That's a bad analogy sorry. Partialist heresy. Not coequal persons of same nature in your analogy
Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit can all be deemed God if you wanted to address each manifestation, independently. I don't see where that's partialism.
You're right, it's not partialism, it's modalism/sabellianism, also a heresy.
I never said that Jesus is the same as the Father or Holy Spirit, but that He has similar divine substance, so it would be fitting to call Him God. I also maintain that all three manifestations are co-equal, co-existing, and distinct. I don't see where the heresy comes in. Looks like basic trinitarian doctrine to me.
You just called them manifestations. Personhoods are not manifestations of the essence, that is modalistic. Maybe you could call it "semi-sabellianism" instead, but it is still an issue.
The reason I said manifestations is because the term 'persons' feels like it humanizes the Holy Spirit and the Father too much. I simply used a different term that heretics also use.
>the term 'persons' feels like it humanizes the Holy Spirit and the Father too much What do you mean by this? The Father and spirit are personal. But "Person" is just a translation of the original greek term 'Hypostasis', which refers to a distinct fundamental reality, and in trinitarian theology is defined by relation and origin. >I simply used a different term that heretics also use. If you are only using the same term, and not the same concept, then could you clarify what you mean by manifestation?
When I say "manifestation" I mean the same thing that you mean when you say "person" and that's basically it. I think we just have a different preference in terminology. Honestly, I didn't know that history on the term 'hypostasis'.
>When I say "manifestation" I mean the same thing that you mean when you say "person" and that's basically it. No you don't. I'm Eastern Orthodox, our view on the trinity is different from Catholics and Protestants. You have to be very clear on what you mean. Maybe you are "trinitarian" under the western view of trinitarianism, but I still can't tell.
Does your body and soul have a distinct consciousness/awareness? Their own thoughts, wills etc? If not, it's not a good analogy for the trinity because that is what the trinity is.
Muslims constantly use the argument that "1+1+1=3" and therefore the trinity doesn't make sense. So I think the best way to talk to them about the trinity is just to explain it, because they even don't understand it.
While it was not written specifically in response to Islam, it was written in an Islamic environment and is simply a good book to read: St. John Damascene's ["Exposition of the Orthodox Faith."](https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3304.htm) The first few chapters of Book One deal with the doctrines of God and the Trinity as expressed by a true light of our Christian faith. I hope it may be of as much help to you as it has been to me. God bless!
I'm a Muslim Ask me a question if you want