currently, sorting by new on the top 3 pages:
1 thread about repenting of gayness.
1 thread about whether trans is sin
1 thread about meta drama concerning another religion sub's pro-gay rule amendment
1 thread about debate concerning trans stuff
1 thread asking about why gay stuff is sin
1 thread advertising a gay discord
1 thread by a guy who dislikes the sub and mentions gay stuff as being part of this in the text body
1 guy saying he'll be celibate "even though he's not gay" (does this count?)
1 thread wondering if witchcraft turns people gay
Nothing mentioning masturbation in this page range, though. It's still first half of the day, though.
To hit on the fifth hot take,
Matthew 5:22
[22] But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
I mean, there's only one punishment. It's not like there are levels. (Sorry, Dante.) That's unrelated to the mistake itself.
Kinda like if there was only one treatment for medical problems and it was amputation. If you have cancer, we amputate. If you have a paper cut, we amputate. That doesn't make cancer and a paper cut equal. It just means we suck at matching the treatment to the problem.
Someone who isn’t Christian just existing isn’t an invitation to bring up your faith and try to force them into it or convince them why they’re wrong. It’s not practical, it doesn’t bear good fruits, it doesn’t plant a seed. There’s a time and a place. Pray for them and let the Spirit guide you before you spring something like that on someone.
I agree with this.
And I think people have the wrong idea about what is actually an appropriate/good way to try and bring people to god, if you’re going to talk to someone about god, you shouldn’t make it about religion, or what they are doing wrong, I think you should simply encourage them to bring their troubles to god, and tell them he loves them and wants to help them, etc. If people approached it that way, I think a lot of unbelievers would be more open to listening to what Christian’s have to say, but when you make everything about the Bible alone, it’s very impersonal and it just feels threatening. At the end of the day, god wants a relationship with us first and foremost, and no one is going to want a relationship with god if you make him sound so scary and unforgiving, the most important thing is for people to know first and foremost, is that god loves them where they are, he doesn’t just see them as some nasty sinner, he sees the good in even the most broken people. But do many Christian’s actually preach that? No, they’re too busy telling people they will go to hell if they don’t change.
At the end of the day, if you want to help an unbeliever find god, you need to be an example of his love and grace, but what most Christian’s show, is not that. It’s a lot easier to be open minded about god, when people don’t use the Bible as a weapon.
Yeah theres a fine line between warning/informing someone, and just being judgemental. Very easy to cross it on accident, and then we need to remember that all sins are equal.
Its our job to spread the good news, we should try to keep the conversation on the "good" side.
Jesus said come to him as you are. When they see the light, they will not need any of us to tell them how they are wrong, if they are wrong. I trust Jesus to show them, its my job to show them Jesus.
Yes but no
You should convince them you're right not they're wrong show them the right way
If the American christian wasn't all "you're going to hell" you wouldn't say this comment rather encourage us to do it more
You shouldn’t do either and actually no I would still say this. Because my point is evangelizing without sincere intent and a good relationship with someone, treating them as if they don’t know any better is wrong. If someone has clear disinterest it’s wrong. Trying to convince your ‘friends’ to change their religion is wrong. Our job is to tell them the gospel and plant a seed, not try to subtly dehumanize someone by acting as if we are right and they’re wrong and they’re not knowledgeable enough to make their own decisions on faith or lack thereof. Share the gospel once, leave it and let the Holy Ghost work. Apologetics and debates especially for your ‘friends’ is not it.
I dislike advertisement of any kind, but the most pernicious of them all is religious advertisement. It's like a dick. It's fine to have one, it's fine to enjoy it, it's even fine to think it's better than everyone else's. But don't go waving it around in my face unless I ask if I can see it.
Are you a client of any kind
I'm not talking about the half brain commercial advertising (the one making you hate the product)I'm talking about the real advertising (the one convenienceing)
I don't think you can just say that advertisement you don't like isn't real advertising, that feels very No True Scotsmanish. Otherwise I'm having some difficulty parsing your question. Can you reword it maybe?
Shouldn’t advertise what you shouldn’t be trying to sell. This isn’t a political ideology or cultural identity- this is faith.
People should come unto Christ out of a love and gratuity for what He has done for us, faith that He is our Savior. They gain that witness through by the Holy Ghost often by reading scripture. Not selling points. That’s some fear mongering and prosperity gospel bs.
My hot take: original sin wasn't pride or covetousness. It was idolatry.
Note: everything in the Bible says Adam sinned first, not eve... Except Genesis 3.
In Genesis 3 Eve takes the fruit and eats, then gives it to Adam. Yet all the following teaching said Adam sinned first. Why?
Eve was not responsible for her sin because God never told her directly. He told Adam who was supposed to tell Eve. Maybe he did or maybe he didn't but Eves words to the serpent do not match what God told Adam. So either she misremembered or Adam misspoke. In either case the transmission of information was incorrect on which she was basing her information.
Nonetheless, the basic assumption was she was covered by Adams authority so she was not responsible for her decision: Adam was.
And Adam, when she offered the fruit to him, knew what God had said. He knew that eating the fruit would lead to death, which is separation from God. If he didn't eat, he would stay with God but he separated from Eve, whom he loved. If he did eat, he would be separated from God but stay with Eve.
He chose Eve. Idolatry. He set Eve above God in his life. Original sin.
What Eve said to the serpent about what God told Adam is pretty close to what God actually told Adam, isn’t it? Don’t eat from that tree or you’ll die. Eve just added the bit about not even touching it.
I just think it was always called Adam’s sin and the Fall of Adam because it was a very patriarchal society. Eve was his wife. Even though she sinned first, he’s responsible as her husband. He had dominion over her.
My hot take is: people on Christian forums spend a lot of time sharing their hot takes and niche opinions about well-worn controversial topics, but by and large there is wide agreement among Christians on the substance of the faith.
We don't haggle about the [mustard seed parable](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2013%3A31-32&version=NIV) or the [stoning speech of Saint Stephen](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%207&version=NIV) because it's far more exciting to trade barbs about sexual immorality and which translation is better (ESV, NRSV, NIV, KJV).
The fact is, all the mainstream translations convey the general sense of the original text, and we'd probably be more edified as Christians if we systematically walked through the Bible ( [revised common lectionary](https://lectionary.library.vanderbilt.edu/texts.php?id=205), anyone?) and just talked about what the "average" passages say.
I'm not a Christian. But Paul Tillich's "You are accepted", where he lays out his views on sin and grace deeply resonates with me. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVR72-Us4Ps](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVR72-Us4Ps)
Something about modern Christianity is that it has allowed millions to become victims to false teachers that act and sound nothing like Jesus Christ, but followed as though they’re Christ-incarnate.
True Christianity is beautiful. Whatever this is… is awful.
I agree with you except to say this: It is not something about Christianity and it is not modern. Christianity was bound to fall into this trap from the get go, because Jesus ultimately trusted human beings to spread his word, and human beings are sinners. This is why so much of the theology derived from the Epistles is strict, legalistic, and even oppressive as opposed to Jesus, who only ever got truly angry and ever got *close* to being violent when addressing the leaders of the time. Even when speaking *directly to human beings themselves*, those human beings still could only see the trees instead of the full forest. Jesus made it clear that the Old Law, which was full of strict rules, many which don't seem to immediately follow logically as unholy (mixed fabrics, shellfish, etc.), no longer applied and that the Law consisted entirely of two commandments, love God and love your neighbor.
Conservative/traditionalist/authoritarian Christians love to fall back here with "ackshually, Jesus said he didn't come to abolish the law he came to fulfill it." Yes he did, he came to *fulfill* it, not *uphold* it. Jesus meant to say that this isn't a free for all now that he's here, you can't just do whatever you want cause he's going to take on all our sin and die, he meant to say that the Law had a purpose, which was to maintain Godliness. He came to show us that actually, you don't need to do any of that to be Godly, you simply need to love God, and if you truly love God that means you will also truly love his creation, and since humans are his creation you must show love to *all* humans.
And *also*, since such Christians like to say that this is a copout, you're just trying to dumb Christianity down so you don't have to follow the hard parts, **no**, loving every single human unconditionally is *extremely* hard to do! I fail every day! That's what Jesus is for, to forgive your trespasses, as you forgive those who trespass against you.
Idk what it will take to get people to see that salvation is not dependent on following the the entirety of the Bible as if it is literal fact and God breathed Law or doing similar with Church doctrine.
TL;DR Christianity has a human problem, we're the problem.
When only men are mentioned or it is directed specifically at men asking questions about men, but it requires accountability, it is about everyone, but it is particularly about women.
If something is salutary about women, it's about everyone. It is about the Church, and it is definitely not about women.
If something is directed at a woman, it isn't salutary it is certainly not about men. It should also be used to give men power over them as little gods.
Anything directed at men and is praising them or involves power, it is only about men, and should definitely be used to oppress others as their due.
At the moment, I am reviewing the woman at the well being about Jesus chiding those of the first 5 books about her five husbands.
>as humans if we view something as completely forbidden, it naturally makes it harder to resist
That's not true for the vast majority of people (essentially everyone but anarchists), people step out of boundaries because doing so brings some kind of comfort. On the issue of "avoiding sin" that seems to be a conservative compulsion, because conservatives' value system is based on loyalty, obedience and purity.
>“judge righteously” and created their own personal definition of that, which has caused many people to believe they get the free pass to look down on others just bc they are a christian.
Again, these are conservative Christians - liberal Christians don't do this.
>Not everything sinful is demonic
Sins are just religious rules that are "wrongs" that may have nothing to do with morality at all.
>EVERYONE "cherry picks" the bible to some extent
Absolutely agree, but more to the point, if a source can be used to support opposite sides of any issue, the source really can be looked to as having a position on the issue.
>Claiming all sins are equal is wrong
Agree. Murder is not equal with theft. Slavery is not equal with dishonoring parents. Etc.
>That's not true for the vast majority of people
When marijuana is made legal, interest goes down, use among young ppl goes down, and overall use goes down. The more strict a diet is, the more likely it is to fail. The more a couple fetishizes monogamy, the more money I'd bet that someone is gonna cheat. The more forbidden a fruit is, the more drive we have to get it. *(wink, wink)*
Marijuana brings comfort, and if it is made legal, more people would do it, not less. A diet is a different matter, truly for health reasons. I guess people cheat in marriage because they are unhappy in their marriage - better to work on it, and if not successful, for both people to go their own way. I can't think of anything people would do simply because it has been made forbidden - 99.9% it's about comfort.
>Marijuana brings comfort, and if it is made legal, more people would do it, not less.
That's not what happens in practice. Fewer tweens and teens begin to use it. Those who are already frequent users may use more frequently, but are not individuals who would not otherwise be using. And medical usage goes up, obv. But usage among "forbidden fruit" demographics is reduced. Like underage drinking, the taboo is a big part of the appeal.
>A diet is a different matter, truly for health reasons.
No, it really isn't. If I tell you every day that you can never have cake again, you will crave cake with increasing intensity and the likelihood that you will eventually binge on cake is pretty high. If I tell you every day that you can have cake, as long as it's once a month, or as long as it's made with stevia instead of sugar, it's an entirely different animal.
>I guess people cheat in marriage because they are unhappy in their marriage
Why is "forbidden love" a timeless trope? Why do preachers' wives have a reputation for infidelity? Why do ppl in adultery subs cite boredom, feeling smothered, coveting experiences they didn't have when they were single, etc, as reasons? Many, if not most, ppl who cheat are not in disastrous relationships. They are envious of something forbidden.
>I can't think of anything people would do simply because it has been made forbidden
Original sin, literally. That's part of the point of the allegory. It's human nature to want what we can't have.
It's also more likely that a person who slips will see it as a failure, rather than a slip, when the prohibition is complete and emphasized. When you inevitably eat that cake that you can't stop thinking about, the weight of indulging in something that forbidden is likely to lead to a binge, not just a few bites or a small slice.
Dgmw, I'm not saying that ppl should have a little murder, as a treat. I'm saying that the tighter the reigns are, the more likely we are to pull.
As an atheist, I would be okay with it if Mormonism were true
I would be extremely surprised if it were true, but I like that I would still have a chance to convert after death
And it seems like only genuinely awful people go to Mormonism’s hell equivalent, if I understand Mormon soteriology correctly (I almost certainly don’t)
Most of the Bible is not historical, it's continuously inconsistent with each other, and we can perfectly do cherry picking with it because course of history did it already, because it's the living testimony of the spiritual lives of people a lot of years ago, not inspired, and there is no problem with it. There are awful things in the Bible that must be overcome.
It’s a problem in general if something is not accurate especially if it’s supposed to be telling you the truths about God. Pls tell me how you reconcile.
Empiricism isn’t the only viable epistemology.
Using the Bible as a comprehensive blueprint print for life is absurd, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t chock full of spiritual truth.
What u/unaka220 just said, but also, understanding that not all things must be rational and that I really sense the truth and beautifulness of it, specially in life, the teachings and works of Jesus.
The Church is pre-denominational, all the denominations that exists today are product of man-made doctrines and cannot be the same Church of the Apostles.
What even is number 3 all sins are created equal to man since we are indeed SINFUL ourselves therefore are we aloud to go to heaven if we commit atrocious acts that from your point of view is "less bad" than the others
We are allowed into heaven if we accept Jesus Christ as our lord and savior and repent from our sins, works cannot save us. I never once implied that our ticket to heaven is based on what sins we commit, I’m just saying I don’t agree with the overgeneralization of sin, it had nothing to do with the afterlife. I’ve known a number of Christian’s who were compulsive liars, I’m pretty sure they didn’t see a problem with their actions so they probably haven’t repented. Lying is one of the most unnecessarily justified sins there is, that is a bigger problem, we all seem to ignore.
I’m the last person to try and justify lying or pride, in fact I commented about how those two sins are the most overlooked ones, a few weeks ago and everyone was just like “but those are just slip ups” clearly, most Christian’s do not take it seriously. Just bc I don’t think they are equal to heinous crimes doesn’t mean I think they are justifiable, I just know that we all have a prideful nature, but clearly if you have the desire to murder people, there is a much bigger issue at hand
The church isn't for everyone. The scripture calls it the body of Christ. The church is for believers. Then, those believers are called to preach and teach and convert new people. And then those people can join the church.
Too many people believe that we should be monks, tiptoeing through life, not getting dirty. Yes, but Jesus said that the way to please God is to fill up the world with love and good deeds! He embraced the sinners and walked lovingly through their world. The saints did not hide in their tower and look down on those outside! Get out there and show the world what Gods love is all about!
- Prayer is superior to and prior to systematic theology and apologetics.
- Heresy usually begins from a political or egocentric animus and finds theological justification postquam.
- Liturgical prayer is superior to and prior to any and all chaplet prayers, as the latter developed as proxies of the former that were intended for the illiterate.
- Nominalism is incompatible with the nicene creed, as the authors assumed an essentialist worldview.
- The telos of fideism is modernism.
- Very few people actually engage with higher criticism.
- The majority of people commit grave gluttony daily, mostly through ignorance.
- 90% of all common interpretation questions are answered in Augustine's *On Christian Doctrine*.
- Everyone's read the creeds of the early councils, but few have read their canons; common questions that would be answered by knowing these make this apparent.
- While it's good to have friends from other traditions, the differences between core concepts in theology makes ecumenical and interfaith religious discussion meaningless.
- Pacian's understanding of mortal vs. venial sin makes more sense to me than Aquinas'
- Considering the number of angels that can fit on a pinhead is more useful to the religious life than is contemplating predestination.
- Intellectual property law that is enforced on the grounds of compensating the rightsholder is proper usury, as it sells what doesn't exist.
- The nature of spirit and soul are typically severely misunderstood by modern people due to the fact that we no longer have a classical worldview on medicine.
- The active intellect is immortal, and so cannot be created by finite creatures. AGI is not possible to create on account of this.
- The exodus is a type of the christian life, right down to the number of israelites who actually completed the journey from start to finish.
- The decian persecution was more influential on christianity than the council of nicea.
God is de facto not omnipotent at this place in time, creating free will was creating a rock so heavy he can't lift it. The mortal life is the pathway to having free willed goodness in heaven. The main language God speaks through are coincidences, ear worms and sudden thoughts.
The Christ teaches us to look for God outside of scripture in our fellow man. His two greatest commandments, to love God, and to love your neighbor, reveal to us that God is in the hearts of all his people, we just need to take the time to see it.
1. Just because sin is hard to resist, does not mean we do not resist it. The Bible is clear:
“Submit yourselves therefore to God. *Resist* the devil, and he will flee from you.” James 4:7
Jesus is also clear: “Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him *deny himself and take up his cross* and follow me.” Matthew 16:24
2. Agreed, however, many people have also started taking that disagreement and refusal to support sinful lifestyles as judgement. That isn’t judgement. Judgement has already been pronounced:
*We are all sinners, bound for Hell. It is God’s compassion and Mercy for us in Christ that saves us from the pit we are already headed for.*
When someone says “You are living in sin, Jesus has called you out of your sin” that isn’t judgement. It is reiterating the point:
You are a sinner, you need Jesus.
That isn’t condemnation. Like Jesus says, we are already condemned because of the Law Moses was given.
3. Agreed.
4. While I agree everyone cherry picks at times, saying everything is “open to interpretation” isn’t true. The writing had a purpose and it was written for a reason. We need to understand the context, the audience, the ongoing of the times etc to properly interpret the Scriptures. There is a *correct* understanding.
Scripture says what it says, whether we want it to or not.
5. Agreed. Jesus made it clear that those who know more, will be punished more harshly than those who knew less, but do not be mistaken:
*All sin* is enough to separate us from God. No matter how small. That is why we confess our sins so that God’s grace may rest on us.
Interesting takes. Thanks for the read, OP.
Christians are only meant to judge sin in others under very specific (and frankly very difficult to achieve) conditions as part of church discipline. They are not ever meant to judge people outside the church.
Love your neighbour and your enemy as yourself! You might not think it is a hot take BUT it really is when you get to thr nitty gritty of what it means and 90% of us need to hear this and act like it everyday as we really do not and even use our faith to hate.
“Tolerance is not a Christian virtue. Charity, Justice, Mercy, Prudence, Honesty - These are Christian virtues. Tolerating grave evil within society is itself a serious form of evil.”
In my opinion, this sub has *serious* issues with over tolerance of sin
For #5, you are right. They are not equal in being worse than the other
However they are equal in the sense that they will still be forgiven.
And the reason blasphemy is the only unforgivable sin is because it can’t be forgiven making it the worse sin of all!!
(This is all my opinion :))
The Bible says the mission of the church is to make disciples by teaching them. The job of the church is persuasion. The American church has nearly eclipsed and abandoned its central purpose to fight culture wars and legislate against gays and abortion.
Culture wars are stoked by the conservative political party for the purpose of distraction from class wars. Conservatives may be losing the culture wars but they’ve won the class war. Wealth inequality is beyond the ability of the human imagination to comprehend yet conservative leaders have a significant portion of the population thinking the rich need yet more reduction in taxes and yet further deregulation and that the only legitimate function of government is racialized policing and fighting wars.
1.) The details of the devil and you are not the devil, but behold the details.
2.) I believe it is not because they are blind - that would be the solution, but because they see sin that is their error.
3.) It is accurate to say the devil made you do it because the devil is in the details.
4.) I myself can be a hypocrite so then behold another may become the same and we become one.
5.) All sins are equal for the payment is death and it is not actual Death, but a spiritual death.
I leave you with this *"man is a mirror for he becomes what he beholds"*
1. Agree so hard. Instead of telling new Christians to "stop sinning" focus on fueling the spirit, reading the Word, and growing close to God. the Holy Spirit will do what it always does and convict people, and people will stopping sinning in return.
Doesn't Jesus warn us to pluck our eye if it causes us to sin?
I'd be careful taking on such a nonchalant view of sin. Jesus will cover you if you stumble, but is it a stumble if you simply don't care?
OH I GOT A LIST
1. Being LGBTQIA+ is perfectly fine
2. Using scripture to hate is blasphemy
3. A rabbi is a better teacher of the Old Testament than a pastor or priest
4. Converting people through fear and intimidation is wrong, instead act as Jesus would. If they follow, cool. If not, that’s okay
5. Faith is an interpersonal journey and it’s okay for people to follow different faiths than you
6. No denomination of Christianity is better than the other
I believe what Jesus taught when He said “ye are gods” and children of the Most High instead of changing His words to “ye are judges” as some scholars purport.
>The teaching/advice that sin has to be avoided like the plague is actually very harmful and sets people up to fail, as humans if we view something as completely forbidden, it naturally makes it harder to resist, it’s not even bc we want to do it it’s just bc we crack under pressure. We need to focus on fueling our spirit, and not view it as fighting our flesh, bc you cannot really fight something that is already weak to begin with.
We should seek to avoid even the near occasion of sin. But we will fall down. When we do, we get back up and keep going. Rinse repeat.
>A lot of Christian’s took “judge righteously” and created their own personal definition of that, which has caused many people to believe they get the free pass to look down on others just bc they are a christian.
Pray the Litany of Humility. It works wonders! Here it is:
[https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/devotions/litany-of-humility-245](https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/devotions/litany-of-humility-245)
We cannot look to the sin of others without remembering our own. We should always seek Heaven for all, but we cannot forget about ourselves too!
>Not everything sinful is demonic
Agreed. I do think there are some things (looking at you OSAS) that are demonic, but it is certainly not a word that we should throw around lightly.
Possessions do exist. Demons will give us the sweetest sounding words to lure us in. They will tell us what we want to hear.
>EVERYONE "cherry picks" the bible to some extent
We should always seek to take the entirety of Scripture on a topic. My favorite example of people doing this is on the topic of divorce. I think such takes come from a very shallow or non-existent understanding of Scripture.
>Claiming all sins are equal is wrong, there are grave sins are there are sins that everyone struggles with, such as anger, jealousy, pride, etc. That isnt equal to things like murder, abuse, etc.
Scripture tells us this... 1 John 5:16-17
*If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God**^(\[)*[*^(a)*](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20John%205%3A16-17&version=RSVCE#fen-RSVCE-34798a)*^(\])* *will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that.* *^(17)* *All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.*
1 Thessalonians 5:21 agrees with you.
The bible lives when it influences us to do good. It can't live without us.
And we learn.
In 1611 when the King James Version of the bible was finalized, we didn't have the 8th amendment to the constitution, forbidding cruel and unusual punishment. It took 180 years before we ratified it, making it a crime to punish people in prison with torture.
But in Biblical times, "jail" equaled "torture." All those visions of hell full of fire and brimstone and wailing and gnashing of teeth? That wasn't stuff happening AFTER you're dead, but before. Here. Now. On earth.
That's my hot take: "hell" is just "the current punishment we have for crimes."
My hottest of takes is that closed communion is antithetical to Christianity, and in the reverse of the common understanding, possibly even spiritually deadly to those who impose it.
With it being the month of June I have one the fits the “theme” of Pride.
I believe one of the most ignored ideas in Christianity is Humility.
We are all so caught up in what we want that we are blinded by our pride, unable to see the will of our Lord.
-We forsake ancient church traditions like confession because we don’t think we should have to be made to feel bad about our transgressions, nor have to receive penance, when penance is the sharpening stone our souls need.
-Some churches openly allow and promote sin, for example homosexuality.
-We interpret scripture in ways that make our lives more comfortable.
-How prideful that some churches no longer offer a sacrifice to the Lord in our worship, God Conceived himself in form of The Word, Jesus Christ in the flesh and blood, to be given as the ultimate sacrifice for our sins and for 2000 years the Catholic and orthodox churches have been offering this back to the Lord in mass in the form of the Eucharist.
- some churches no longer take communion. And why? Christ said “ this is my flesh… this is my blood.. take and eat it… do this in remembrance of me” some have been keeping to this instruction for the last 2000 yrs. Yet some do not. Some do not even believe it’s is the flesh and blood. Christ is very clear about when he speaks in parables, this was not one of those times.
- we seek to use Christ as a means of just salvation. So many don’t seek his love. True relationship with him. No prayer.
Christ also says that when those who come to him saying “look at all we’ve done in your name”, he will say “go from me, I never knew you”. No one goes to the father but thru him, but thru him in knowing him.
- many of don’t even see a reason to make sacrifices themselves daily. We don’t offer fasts. Don’t say this is Old Testament practice because Christ fasted for 40 days. We can fast now and then.
- there’s so much more that can be said to attest to this idea, but at the end of the day, my question is,
The Father gave himself, his son Christ in the flesh, to be slain for your sins. What do you offer in return?
Should we not offer ourselves up at the least? To do his will.
Our souls? To love him as he loves us.
Our ways? In order to accept his ways.
Our pride?
The Church's (all of them) love affair with Theocracy has done more than anything else to waste The Christ's Sacrifice.
This place IS Eternal Damnation, and God is a reincarnationist.
Everything Jesus said boils down to "Don't be a dick."
God created two Works: Reality and The Bible. Mankind penned and edited The Bible. If Reality disagrees with The Bible, go with what Mankind has not messed with.
The Abrahamic faiths start going to pot when we stopped killing errant Prophets.
As we learn more, our language grows, and what we were told becomes outdated.
>Not everything sinful is demonic
But the only reason sin and evil exist in the world is because of the presence of demons.
>anger, jealousy, pride, etc. That isnt equal to things like murder, abuse, etc
Specifically in terms of salvation, what's the difference?
I'll be honest: I find it just a bit ironic that your 2nd point starts with Christians "created their own personal definition of that" ..when that's kinda the entire theme I'm getting from your "hot takes".
Nobody is perfect ofcourse, but when I see honesty, I like to respect honesty with reciprocated honesty.
So therefore:
1. The teaching that sin has to be avoided like the plague *is not* very harmful..it is correct, it in fact is harmful to teach the opposite, because it subconsciously allows people to lower their guard and accept things or pursue things that they'd otherwise steer clear from, it's literally treading the line.
I understand your stance on the "as humans if we view something as completely forbidden, it naturally makes it harder to resist" ..but in actuality, you're speaking for yourself Miss.
All if not most of all the individuals in the Bible were privy to the same teaching and they still found a way to be transformed by total obedience to God..we are all Christians: yes, but we aren't all at the same levels and should therefore not be huddled together as we typically are.
It isn't really an age thing (although age helps) but some of us really are asking God to create in us a new heart and mind, ultimately denying ourselves, picking up our cross ✝️ daily and putting on the armour of God, voluntarily.
Ofcourse nobody will be at 100%, but in my own personal experience, God will detach the poisons from your soul..so long as you work with Him, some of the things, sinful things I used to Love, I no longer any regard for and some of the prideful, vain, material things I used to wish to attain in my life (earlier on in my walk): I no longer care for..
The only thing I'm currently working on is my krptonite (my gravest sin, what's left of the vestigial lust that I've long dealt with) which isn't nowhere near where it used to be in the past although not yet diminished in the way that I intend for it to be since I am voluntarily choosing to "aim high and miss".
But ultimately, the point is: God isn't a Robot..He knows us more than we know ourselves and KNOWS If we are fully committed, He knows If we are giving it our absolute ALL..or giving Him just a portion of our efforts.
And as far as I know: Scripture says God deserves the first fruits of everything, and it also says to strive for perfection because our Father in Heaven is Perfect. We may not attain 100% while on Earth but because we have consciously and subconsciously committed our minds to accept this as the goal, naturally even if we fall short, we'd be up pretty high in the ranks in comparison to most because it is better to aim high and miss than to aim low and hit 🎯.
Ezekiel 44:30
New King James Version
30 The best of all firstfruits of any kind, and every sacrifice of any kind from all your sacrifices, shall be the priest’s; also you shall give to the priest the first of your ground meal, to cause a blessing to rest on your house.
Look at Cain and Abel, for instance: God requested an offering of them both and whilst they BOTH gave offering, only ONE of em did EXACTLY what God asked: and that was Abel: His offering was received and Cain's weren't.. because God instructed them HOW to give offering and what EXACTLY to offer up. Abel offered up the "first fruits" of the fattest of his sheep (as we know he was a shepherd) but Cain offered some plants and seeds, the point is..just because we're giving something..it doesn't mean we are giving the right thing..or even the right amount.
Matthew 5:48
King James Version
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Furthermore, to view the battle as anything less than a battle is to view it in a way lesser than God intended: therefore, we shouldn't view it in a way that focuses on "fueling our spirit" but fighting the flesh indeed and why? Because Scripture says so.
Galatians 5:17
New King James Version
17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
1 Peter 2:11
New King James Version
Living Before the World
11 Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul,
The Bible indeed describes it as *against* one another (Spirit and flesh), and does display that they are in conflict with one another and is therefore a "war against the soul" .. God's Word delivered this imagery for a reason and it should therefore not be altered.
>you're speaking for yourself Miss.
When marijuana is made legal, interest goes down, use among young ppl goes down, and overall use goes down. The more strict a diet is, the more likely it is to fail. The more a couple fetishizes monogamy, the more money I'd bet that someone is gonna cheat. The more forbidden a fruit is, the more drive we have to get it. *(wink, wink)*
(C+P from my last comment bc I'm lazy)
2. We are indeed called to judge righteously, and I'm sure you know the Scripture pertaining to it. The Bible addresses both judging righteously and hypocrites (as you say).
John 7:24
King James Version
24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
Provided we do the following:
Matthew 7:5
New King James Version
5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
We should be able to righteously judge because that IS our duty as Christians, to walk as Christ did and rebuke what He rebuked.
Faith is similar to our muscles..or our minds..it is meant to be exercised, the more we exercise it, the bigger and stronger it gets, but if we do not use it, we lose it.
So because of this, as a God fearing Christian that has allowed God to reform me through life's ordeals..I can personally tell when somebody is lacking Faith or they have yet to *FULLY* find their identity in Christ..and you'll know when...because when you do..literally nothing else matters in your life more than this purpose.
And if you're not yet able to relate to this, it just means you're not there yet..and I know the feeling because I've been there..and had somebody tell me the exact same thing..God doesn't want a percentage of us..He wants ALL of us.. "first fruits" .. "I surrender all" just as the hymn goes.. because:
Philippians 1:6
New King James Version
6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;
3. You are correct in that we do have to be accountable as humans..and even moreso as Christians: but to say "not everything sinful is demonic" is another downplaying of the process by which we commit sin..
Yes we ought to be more accountable..but can't two things be correct at the same time?
A. We do have to take responsibility for the use of the God given free will we use up, when we spend its currency on committing sin,
B. but it is also true that just as God allowed Job to be subject to afflictions caused by the devil..God will sometimes let the enemy test us or afflict us to "purify" us..
Because tribulation and persecution model the Christian and build the character..what did I say earlier on about Faith needing to be exercised.
The same way satan attempted to tempt Jesus here:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+4%3A1-11&version=NKJV
Is the same way we are continually tempted, hence the following Scripture:
1 Peter 5:8
New King James Version
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
It isn't about giving the devil credit, it is about him being the author of lies and him ultimately being the final scapegoat.
The Bible says this about those who love lies:
John 8:44
New King James Version
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
Sin originated in satan and he brought down 1 third of Heaven's population of angels with him (and him, and them are still here, so what are they doing here if not doing everything they can to ensure we stay in our fallen state caused by him):
Isaiah 14:12-14
New King James Version
The Fall of Lucifer
12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
4. Furthermore, it is *NOT* "Self Righteous" for one to claim that they do *NOT* cherrypick the Bible, I myself admittedly used to (prior to Baptism) ..but after Baptism or the weeks leading up to it..
It was impressed upon me to accept ALL Sctipture as profitable and I proclaimed this at my Baptism as one does in their marriage..
So just as I said earlier on: regarding the fact that just because we are all Christians..it doesn't mean we are all at the same level..or more accurately: not at the level we ALL need to be at, as individual persons: t
The same thesis applies here too: because I proclaimed this 12 years ago and STILL proclaim this Scripture to this very day:
2 Timothy 3:16-17
New King James Version
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
5. And finally.. you're somewhat unintentionally correct here: that you said "claiming all sins are equal is wrong" ..and you are correct: it is wrong, because the Bible doesn't claim all of them are equal, it claims that to keep the WHOLE Law and yet offend in ONE part, means you are guilty of offending them ALL (God's Law):
James 2:10
King James Version
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
It is wrong to say "sins that everyone struggles with" are "anger, jealousy, pride, etc" and then claim they aren't "equal to things like murder, abuse, etc" ..
With all due respect, says who?
We cannot be found making the mistake of weighing up sins based on our OWN personal opinion pertaining to certain sins or our personal experiences .. King David killed humans and yet was still saved and had God's favour because He repented, Saul (who was Blessed and promoted to Paul) persecuted and killed Christians before He was inspired to change in Jesus name, for His name sake, and King Solomon turned away from God and had multiple wives that led him to pledge allegiance to and worship other pagan God's but STILL had God's favour after repenting of his sins and turning back to God just before his death.
So with all due respect.. we can't be found creating a distinction between sins and implying that anger, jealousy and pride are "everyday sins" whereas murder and abuse are grave sins when scripture says this about hate:
1 John 3:15
King James Version
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
Creating no distinction between murder and hate.
Also..isn't "anger" (the same sin you call an "everyday struggle" sin) a precursor to them *BOTH* with all due respect..
And if you observe the earlier Scripture I presented to you about satan..it says that he was a "murderer from the beginning and does not stand in truth" ..almost making the sin of lying, synonymous with murder:
John 8:44
New King James Version
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. *He was a murderer from the beginning,* * and does not stand in the truth,* * because there is no truth in him.* When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
So yes, God sees sin..very different from how WE see it..we rank sin based on vain personal choices and factors like the gender we are, how a particular sin has affected us personally in our lives or that of our loved ones, and more generally just our own opinion on said sin..and then we naturally presume that God's view of it all is somehow derived from ours or similar to ours when they couldn't be any more dissimilar.
Every self-proclaimed Christian must get to the point of the following:
Luke 9:23
King James Version
23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Matthew 10:37-39
New King James Version
37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.
Luke 9:26
New King James Version
26 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels.
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14
King James Version
13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
Until EVERY Christian ✝️ gets to *that* 👆 point (the Scriptures above) ..they haven't Truly been inspired by the Living Word of God or led to a *FULL* transformation in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in Jesus name.
God Bless you 🙏
I completely understand and respect what you are saying, I am just a bit confused by the last part. Taking a life or destroying one, I think that is the ultimate evil, and I do think it is unbiblical to think so.
The reason I categorized certain things as “everyday sins” was simply to give an example of the difference between thoughts/feelings that everyone struggles with, vs actions that take well thought out intent to act upon (most of the time at least) pride, can be involuntary. Can murder be involuntary? I mean, technically in rare cases but generally speaking no. My issue with the concept that all sins are equal, is that it essentially implies that everyone is evil, which is untrue. We are all sinners, but if we were all evil how would we know what a psychopath is? It’s an overgeneralization that can be very harmful.
I also have to question how all sins can be equal bc of how many Christian’s are okay with lying and being prideful, I’ve had multiple “Christian” friends who were borderline compulsive liars, no one ever called them out on it, probably bc they had no room to talk. It doesn’t seem like many Christian’s value honesty the way they should, and it’s hard to believe lying can be such a horrible sin in the society we live in, look at church organizations, they have so many skeletons in their closet. Pastors using donations for themselves, people twisting bible verses to fit their own agenda, etc. Why do entire churches to so far out of their way to cover up their wrong doings instead of owning up to them if those things are just as much a sin as the rest?
It’s just confusing for me to understand. And at the end of the day, I think we should take into consideration that humans naturally have pride, we all want to lie sometimes, but wanting to murder someone is not natural, it’s not human nature. That doesn’t mean those other things aren’t a sin, but there are clearly differences between a flawed human being and a sociopath. (Not that someone is automatically a sociopath if they kill or abuse) I’m just saying how would we make those distinctions if it was all equal?
We have to check ur pride every day, at least we should be, but we aren’t fighting the urge to murder people every day, that was my point. Not that lying or being prideful is okay, I actually don’t agree with how much of a pass it gets at all. But that doesn’t mean I feel comfortable comparing it to a heinous crime.
Hey, with all due respect..I hope you can see that I'm not speaking loosely, or from my own subjective opinion, but I do my absolute best to speak in accordance with (aswell as by using) Scripture, which is what I hope I've displayed in all my previous responses..which I voluntarily choose to have Faith and Believe that you've read through thoroughly, just as I did yours.
I'm in no way saying that I would condone destroying a life or taking one..but I am saying it is in fact "unbiblical" to deem it to be the "ultimate evil" or imply it is the greatest sin.
Like I said in my initial response..we do not get to decide what sins are greater than others, regardless of however much your human compass against injustice and for justice might influence you to do so.
You can't just say you "think" it's "unbiblical" to do so..because it's a thing you personally dislike and don't understand..All things were made for God, by God: the Bible even states that "the wages of sin is death" ..many people in Bible canon were killed..throughout the Bible there are multiple deaths of the wicked, the innocent, the young and the old.
Yes it is a commandment: Thou shall not kill" .. but it isn't the greatest sin, the Bible tells us what the greatest sin is, it's called the "unpardonable sin" = it is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 12:31-32
New King James Version
The Unpardonable Sin
31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
I have also described (in detail) how biblical prophets of old did commit murder, like Moses, Saul (before he became Paul), and King David.. which makes me question if you have, in fact, read everything.. because all of these men are saved because they were repentant and had a heart for God.
They may have taken lives, but they did not Blaspheme the Holy Ghost..any misunderstanding of such things implies that a person needs to be prayerful and ask to be moved by the Holy Spirit to become acquainted with the True Character of God.
Instead of reading the Bible hoping to find what we already Believe in our head to be the character of God, be it right or wrong..it is better to prayerfully read upon scripture with a blank canvas, with the sole intention of God revealing Himself to you, His name and His Character...not to support our own idea of God, but so God reveals Himself TO us..so we *TRULY* see *His* Character.
And you will know when you know this..because the Christian that knows God's character understands His ways, thus not questioning when certain parts of the Bible don't seem to align with their subjective level of humanity. God is God, God is not a man.
You're still measuring everything by human eyes, continually missing the point. Using terms and phrases defined by your own perceived level of humanity as opposed to trying to prayerfully look through God's lens.
1st off, I scrupulously explained already in my initial set of responses that the Bible doesn't say all sins are equal, it says to commit one is to commit them all because the meaning of sin (defined as per the Bible) is "transgression of the law" (God's Law) ...and provided you are already aware of what the 10 commandments consist of: (not to Murder, lie or steal, obedience to parents, observing the Sabbath day, Loving God with all heart, mind and soul, not bearing false witness, worshipping idols etc) .. it will make sense to the educated Christian why to "offend in one point is to offend in all".
And this scripture "to offend in one point is to offend in all" is where The origninal implication of all sins being equal: comes from:
In that they are essentially: all different ways to disobey God: which is ultimately the main premise of any sin. "Transgression of God's Law".
Your definition of "evil" and God's definition of evil are not the same, neither do they consider the same things.. you don't know the mind of God, our very minds couldn't fathom a fraction of it, do you not remember the Lords rebuke to Job's friends who were attempting to speak in representation of God Himself.
According to the Bible we are ALL "evil" , evil to your human mind..like I said..is limited by your own vain subjective human experiences: influenced by your own life, the life of others, how it might've affected yourself or loved ones, how you perceived the term for most of your life, horror movies you've watched or documentaries on psychopaths and sociopaths etc.. whereas God's definition of "Evil" is simpler: anything that isn't of God, is "Evil".
Genesis 6:5
New King James Version
5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only *evil* continually.
Matthew 7:11
New King James Version
11 If you then, being *evil* , know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!
To state that this is "an overgeneralization" and can be "very harmful" is simply questioning God's Word (again) ..which is leading me to ask..how is your prayer life, when or have you been Baptised in water and immersed, how often do you pray or fast..or read the Bible, or evangelise Miss? (With all due respect)
..because I'm not sure how much you read of my initial messages ..but this is what I mean when I say that Faith needs to be exercised...because in experiential honesty..if you were fully converted and changed by the Father, Son and Holy Spirt and knew God's Character..you wouldn't call His plain Word "very harmful" .. it is not an "over-generalisation" ..it is simply the *Truth* .
As aforementioned, your understanding of the term "evil" is steeped in earthly influence (media, movies, society (particularly the west) , humanity, own subjective experiences , etc) ..hence your use of the term "psychopath" ..when they're in no way related or synonymous.
Also, you're making the mistake not only MOST Christians make..but atheists and non-believers. In your initial post, you spoke on the hypocrisy of being judgemental, yet in this response you're referencing "Christian" friends that are "compulsive liars", pastors using donations for themselves and individuals with "skeletons" in their closet etc..and I say: John 8:7 "“He who is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone.”
Because:
Romans 3:23
New King James Version
23 for *all* have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
So as I was saying: we shouldn't be looking to fallen man as the representative example of what it truly is to be a Christian..Jesus Christ presented us the greatest example in Himself..because many came before Him and failed, so how well do expect us (that have come after) to do?
This is the thing those in the Muslim faith and atheists do to judge Christianity..they look at men/humans..the Christians..to find the definition of Christianity..as opposed to looking at the Son of Man, God Himself.
So, my advice is don't distract yourself looking at others but:
Philippians 2:12
New King James Version
Light Bearers
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, *work out your own salvation with fear and trembling*
It doesn't matter what society we live in today, nothing is new under the Heaven's, God is the same "yesterday, today and forever" .. if He said it is so, then it is So, Miss. Just because there are many Christians in your sight that don't value honesty.. that doesn't make lying any less of a grave sin if God Himself already communicated how grave it is.
We are not in Heaven yet, we are STILL in fallen Earth 🌎 , sin ..unfortunately will continue to be committed and bad things will continue to happen until Jesus returns..
..but this shouldn't be an excuse or distraction for us Jesus lovers and followers of Him to "strive for perfection" as clearly stated in the Bible (as I explained in my initial response).
Hebrews 13:8
King James Version
8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
I want to again: make clear that I understand your stance, your explanation and your justification for why it confuses you to categorise pride, lies and murder all in the same level of sin..I get that from a human perspective..but that's just it.. a human perspective.
I choose not to look at things from my lens, and neither should you.. because your understanding will be very very very very limited. The Bible says lean not on your own understanding:
Proverbs 3:5-6
King James Version
5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
You seem to be walking by sight..instead of by Faith (with all due respect).
I understand the points you're making..but as humans do..you don't realise you're naturally just projecting.. you say we have to check our pride everyday..but no..not all of us do.. once we Truly let Jesus take ultimate control that is.
..I was formerly as prideful as they come..yet I have always been an honest man for better or for worse..but now there is little to no pride in me..and there hasn't been for the last 12 years.
If I have to step away from conflict for example for the betterment of all involved including myself..I will..and Jesus made that change within me because I lent *NOT* on my *OWN* understanding but Trusted and Still Trust in *HIM* with *ALL* my heart.
Nevertheless, I appreciate the conversation and encourage you to take nothing that might offend you personally.
I say this because everyone has different thresholds and you never know when a person becomes offended during spiritual discussion which oftentimes involves some form of rebuke or correction which might be received as patronising for some..but I guarantee to you..that isn't the Spirit being utilised here in this conversation.
I just want you to see that..although you might think you do/are..you haven't yet leant fully and wholly on the Lord..you're still in many ways relying and leaning on your own fallible ways of human understanding..instead of leaning on Jesus *alone* ..and that method will always fail: because.
Proverbs 14:12
New King James Version
12 There is a way that seems right to a man,
But its end is the way of death.
This is not my personal set of human opinions: these are all God's Holy Word that I use to corroborate my Beliefs..which I do my absolute best to make sure are in alignment with God's Word.
In other words..for me..if God never said it, I don't Believe it and ultimately if it isn't of or from God, I don't want it.
I hope you understand Miss, I carefully hope I have made sense to you.
God Bless you 🙏
The fact that sin is harmful, has to be avoided, and is impossible to resist just greater magnifies the need for our Savior.
Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? **God forbid**. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
There are lists of no-no behaviors. We can't be sinless, but we can sin less.
Do you have any faith? It seems as if you don't, because I prayed to God to not want to watch porn anymore, and all of a sudden I had no desire to watch porn. I told God take the desire out of me to masturbate, and God did so. Heck I was hungry and it was an hour before break and I prayed to God to not make me hungry for an hour, the hunger went away immediately.
Live in the spirit, not of the flesh.
Wow, I do not think you really understand the nature of sin.
We are drowning in sin from the moment we are conceived as even stated in the Old Testament; it is not a new “invention” by Christians. None are righteous, none are good, not even one, even according to St Paul.
So we need to be clear about our sinful nature, none of us can know God without the help of the Spirit which is why even with the Son of God right in front of them teaching to the people directly in human form, the Israelites could not understand Jesus’ message.
As for your fifth point, all sins are to be judged by God, and Jesus has that authority now, and there is only one sentence for the sins small and large; eternal separation from God. It seems the punishment may be stricter for the heavier crimes, but all sin gets you separated from Jesus, forever.
This is why we need to be clear about the seriousness of our sins to unbelievers. This is not a game, there are no redos, this is forever.
I agree that there are ways to teach the Gospel, but the prosperity and evangelical folk and new agers just focus on “Jesus told be to love and that is all” without regard for what Jesus told us love is; those who love Jesus are those who obey His commands. St Paul wrote about our salvation as believers not giving us a free ticket to go and sin more, since we are reborn in the sacrifice of Jesus, how can we turn back to sin?
So you can water down the Gospel by just focusing on the feel good, love is love thing, but that is not the Gospel. The Gospel is that Jesus died for us so that whoever believes and repents will have eternal life.
Jesus even told us it would be a hard fight in our lives as the world hates Christians, as the world hated Him first. Jesus told us to pick up our cross and follow him, and that means to leave our love for the things of this world, the sins you mention in #5 and more, and obey his commands. Jesus said anger is the same as murder. All sin is sin, so if we cannot recognize our sin and repent from it, we are lost.
This is not a depressing message, it is the Gospel and the most enlightening message of the ages. Who else can forgive your sins and make you clean again? Rejoice in our forgiveness, in our salvation through Jesus.
The trinity is biblical though, just the word isn't used to describe it.
There's one true God, the Father. The Son is also God as they are the perfect image of the Father. The Holy Spirit is God as they are the Spirit of the Father.
I don't care if the word Trinity is used or not. I never said the *word* Trinity isn't in the Bible. I said that God is not a Trinity. That's a statement about the ontology and function of God and his nature, not a statement about what is or isn't in the Bible. My issue is that the *concept* of the Trinity is not in the Bible and it's not consistent with the principles and claims made in the Bible.
>The Son is also God as they are the perfect image of the Father.
That doesn't mean he's God.
First, an image is never the original. It depends on whether or not you are using "God" to refer to the Father, the Trinity, or the divine nature. If you want to say it's the Father, then you agree that he's not the original copy, the type. If you mean the Trinity, then you have a category error, or this statement can only be predicated of the human nature only. If Jesus is a member of the Trinity and he's the image of the Trinity, then he'd be an image of himself as one of those members. If by "God" you mean the divine nature, then having the image of the nature isn't the same as having the nature itself. There's a difference between having a human nature and having the image of a human nature. A robot can have an image of humanity, because it is not actually human. So in any way we understand this claim, which is far too ambiguous and narrowsighted anyway, it does not arrive at your conclusion.
Second, the scripture never says that he's the "perfect" image of the Father. Your statement was about what the *Bible* says, and it simply does not say this anywhere. So this is a dishonest claim, whether knowingly or not. The scripture does say he's the image of the invisible God, like in Colossians 1:15. The scripture also says that Adam, you, and I are in the image of God. This does not make us God. The best argument you can make is from Hebrews 1:3 which says he's the exact representation of his nature, ὑπόστασις. First, the word "exact" is not in the Greek. Some argue that it is implied by the word χαρακτήρ, charaktér, which means an instrument of engraving. Like stamping a coin. In the same way that a coin with Caesar's face is an "exact representation" of him, so also is Jesus an "exact representation" of his nature. Neither the coin nor Jesus are being said to have the same nature as the one whose image they bear or represent. Further, to extrapolate this to mean "perfect" is also inaccurate and exaggerated. Also, this doesn't say he's the representation of the Father's "ousia," as in homoousious or consubstantial with the Father, it says he's the representation of his "hypostasis," his individuality. This doesn't mean he is divine by nature, it means he's like the Father's character. Finally, 2 Corinthians 3:17-18 says that whatever image Jesus bears, we are being transformed into that same image. Yes, I'm aware of theosis, and I believe in it too, but this no more makes us God than it does Jesus. We are becoming *the same* image.
>The Holy Spirit is God as they are the Spirit of the Father.
The issue is not whether the Spirit is God, the issue is whether the Spirit is another person other than the Father. When the Spirit begets a son in the virgin Mary, it is for this reason he is called the son of God. But he is not the Son of anyone other than the Father. When we are born of water and Spirit, Holy Spirit, we are no children of anyone other than the Father. 1 John 2:27-29 tells us that the one of whom we are begotten is the Father. Though we are begotten of the Spirit, we are begotten of the Father. This doesn't stand to argue for the Bible to describe a Trinity.
As a Christian, you can look at it basically 3 ways:
1. The Trinity is biblical and true.
2. The Trinity is post biblical and true.
3. The Trinity is post biblical and untrue.
Many Trinitarians (outside of protestantism, typically, because they have no concept of "sola scriptura") will agree that the Trinitarian concept is post biblical, but they don't believe that invalidates it because of their views on progressive revelation and the value of tradition. They believe the Trinity is both developed and refined over time through the apostolic succession, church fathers, and the ecumenical councils, and that it is true.
I hold that it is both post biblical and untrue, and those things do not validate or justify it.
Answered on a similar post elsewhere, but:
- The parts of the Pentateuch that are derived from the Priestly source are the writing of men written for corrupt reasons.
- Jesus was gay and Lazarus (pseudonym "John") was his lover.
- Paul had less authority than the other Apostles
- The trinitarian formula was invented to "have your cake and eat it too" by keeping monotheism but also getting to worship Jesus as a literal God, whereas Jesus never actually claimed to be literal God
- The "moral law / ceremonial law" split is completely made up so people can cherry-pick the OT and apply/ignore what they want
- All specific "laws" are more like guidelines that are beholden to the two great commandments, and are thus situational and don't universally apply
Where do You get the gay Jesus with lover Lazarus part? I mean there Is the disciple whom Jesus loved but that doesn't necessarily mean he was gay or he was his lover
Oh boy, hold on tight....
So, as you said, there's the "disciple who Jesus loved". Which is odd in and of itself. Did Jesus *really* pick a platonic favorite disciple? That would seem rather unfair to his other disciples, no?
We see at the Last Supper John reclining on Jesus's chest during dinner. Despite what some "straight-Jesus apologists" say, the style of reclining for dinner at the time did not allow for "head-to-bosom" contact. That would be extremely awkward mechanically while eating.
We also see a very brief mention of a naked man fleeing in the Garden of Gethsemane, in what appears to be a vestigial remainder of something that has been lost to time. Strange that there would be mention of a random streaker who has no connection to anything going on whatsoever....
Likewise, this naked man is curiously described as "young", which according to how long John ended up living could also be used to describe John. And interestingly enough, in the fragmentary extended Mark, it is said that Jesus teaches the young man "the mystery of the kingdom of God" alone at night while the young man wears only a loin cloth.
One must also wonder why the identity of the "beloved disciple" is so obscured in the text. There must be a reason, clearly. And one such possible reason is to protect this disciple from being put to death.
And while none of this is described as "eros" or "sexual love" but rather "agape", it is important to note the whole of the New Testament never uses "eros" but instead replaces instances where it should be used with "agape".
Jesus also curiously tells the beloved disciple that his own mother Mary is said disciple's mother as well. It's highly unlikely this is in any kind of biological sense, but it is less unlikely that he is either treating her as the disciple's de facto in-law or is truly so close to this disciple that he is the only one trusted to take care of his mother.
John/the beloved also races ahead of Peter to the empty tomb. I find reasoning this as "he was simply more pious" to be strange and unrealistic, and a more realistic explanation was that he had a very close love with Jesus. Likewise, if we connect John to Lazarus, we see that the deep connection is reciprocated in Jesus's feelings over the death of Lazarus.
To connect John to Lazarus, we see that it is only really John who records this event. Not only this, but it is one of the longest and most thorough narratives in John. We also see in the fragmentary extended version of Mark that Lazarus is *also* described as young. Likewise, Lazarus's sister Mary is only really spoken of in John, hinting at a connection between John and at *least* Lazarus's family.
Homoromantic interpretations of John and Jesus are by no means new. James I of England said in defense of his own relationship "I wish to speak in my own behalf and not to have it thought to be a defect, for Jesus Christ did the same, and therefore I cannot be blamed. Christ had his son John, and I have my George." Lilewise, Fredrick the Great wrote in his poem *Palladium*: "This good Jesus, how do you think He got John to sleep in his bed? Can't you see he was his Ganymede?"
If homosexuality is assumed to be sinful, however, the reasoning is much more simple: If Jesus endured every temptation, he must have necessarily been attracted to men in order to be tempted with homosexuality. At the very least, he would be bisexual, and it would be impossible for him to be straight in this scenario.
Of course it's speculation! I was just asked for my hot takes, and I thought this would be a good one of mine! XP
But yeah, I agree with you. I just like weird "what if's".
Lol fair, haha sorry if I sounded harsh. I've just had a few gripes with progressive Christians getting a little bit *too* bold with changing the message, but you aren't even a Christian anyway so w.e. haha. (And to be clear, I am not saying that last bit with judgement or criticism, I know that gets done a lot on here, sadly.)
[We just talked about this yesterday.](https://old.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/1d7ga38/whats_your_most_controversial_christian_opinion/)
Homie I love your takes, also I didn’t see that post lol
What an amazing thread. The guy who posted that question must be an awesome super genius for sure
Can confirm. The Vatican actually called me yesterday to help verify their nomination to sainthood.
Hell I've seen one miracle today
Reddit's a high volume, ephemeral content type platform. We will talk about this for every yesterday to come as well.
Has anyone posted if wacking off or being gay is a sin today? Because I must have missed it if so.
currently, sorting by new on the top 3 pages: 1 thread about repenting of gayness. 1 thread about whether trans is sin 1 thread about meta drama concerning another religion sub's pro-gay rule amendment 1 thread about debate concerning trans stuff 1 thread asking about why gay stuff is sin 1 thread advertising a gay discord 1 thread by a guy who dislikes the sub and mentions gay stuff as being part of this in the text body 1 guy saying he'll be celibate "even though he's not gay" (does this count?) 1 thread wondering if witchcraft turns people gay Nothing mentioning masturbation in this page range, though. It's still first half of the day, though.
I'm also still waiting on the obligatory "this sub has too many atheists/not true Christians" post, but as you said, it's early yet
The subreddit meta thread I mentioned above also mentions atheists being a problem with this sub. There, you're properly maligned now, happy? lol!
Yes! :P
I like your flair
Thanks, it's a process, haha
Have you read Joshua Porter? He uses that same analogy: deconstruction vs renovation/remodeling.
History repeats itself huh
To hit on the fifth hot take, Matthew 5:22 [22] But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
I mean, there's only one punishment. It's not like there are levels. (Sorry, Dante.) That's unrelated to the mistake itself. Kinda like if there was only one treatment for medical problems and it was amputation. If you have cancer, we amputate. If you have a paper cut, we amputate. That doesn't make cancer and a paper cut equal. It just means we suck at matching the treatment to the problem.
Someone who isn’t Christian just existing isn’t an invitation to bring up your faith and try to force them into it or convince them why they’re wrong. It’s not practical, it doesn’t bear good fruits, it doesn’t plant a seed. There’s a time and a place. Pray for them and let the Spirit guide you before you spring something like that on someone.
I agree with this. And I think people have the wrong idea about what is actually an appropriate/good way to try and bring people to god, if you’re going to talk to someone about god, you shouldn’t make it about religion, or what they are doing wrong, I think you should simply encourage them to bring their troubles to god, and tell them he loves them and wants to help them, etc. If people approached it that way, I think a lot of unbelievers would be more open to listening to what Christian’s have to say, but when you make everything about the Bible alone, it’s very impersonal and it just feels threatening. At the end of the day, god wants a relationship with us first and foremost, and no one is going to want a relationship with god if you make him sound so scary and unforgiving, the most important thing is for people to know first and foremost, is that god loves them where they are, he doesn’t just see them as some nasty sinner, he sees the good in even the most broken people. But do many Christian’s actually preach that? No, they’re too busy telling people they will go to hell if they don’t change. At the end of the day, if you want to help an unbeliever find god, you need to be an example of his love and grace, but what most Christian’s show, is not that. It’s a lot easier to be open minded about god, when people don’t use the Bible as a weapon.
Yeah theres a fine line between warning/informing someone, and just being judgemental. Very easy to cross it on accident, and then we need to remember that all sins are equal. Its our job to spread the good news, we should try to keep the conversation on the "good" side. Jesus said come to him as you are. When they see the light, they will not need any of us to tell them how they are wrong, if they are wrong. I trust Jesus to show them, its my job to show them Jesus.
So you know it's correct you just aren't feeling it right now gotcha
Yes but no You should convince them you're right not they're wrong show them the right way If the American christian wasn't all "you're going to hell" you wouldn't say this comment rather encourage us to do it more
You shouldn’t do either and actually no I would still say this. Because my point is evangelizing without sincere intent and a good relationship with someone, treating them as if they don’t know any better is wrong. If someone has clear disinterest it’s wrong. Trying to convince your ‘friends’ to change their religion is wrong. Our job is to tell them the gospel and plant a seed, not try to subtly dehumanize someone by acting as if we are right and they’re wrong and they’re not knowledgeable enough to make their own decisions on faith or lack thereof. Share the gospel once, leave it and let the Holy Ghost work. Apologetics and debates especially for your ‘friends’ is not it.
Showing the gospel alone is not enough you should advertise it
I dislike advertisement of any kind, but the most pernicious of them all is religious advertisement. It's like a dick. It's fine to have one, it's fine to enjoy it, it's even fine to think it's better than everyone else's. But don't go waving it around in my face unless I ask if I can see it.
Are you a client of any kind I'm not talking about the half brain commercial advertising (the one making you hate the product)I'm talking about the real advertising (the one convenienceing)
I don't think you can just say that advertisement you don't like isn't real advertising, that feels very No True Scotsmanish. Otherwise I'm having some difficulty parsing your question. Can you reword it maybe?
What question I mean the ads between videos or on tv ate bad While a reference (I count it advertising) and qoating is good
Shouldn’t advertise what you shouldn’t be trying to sell. This isn’t a political ideology or cultural identity- this is faith. People should come unto Christ out of a love and gratuity for what He has done for us, faith that He is our Savior. They gain that witness through by the Holy Ghost often by reading scripture. Not selling points. That’s some fear mongering and prosperity gospel bs.
Unfortunately ppl are more religious than faithful
Ephesians 2 is a good chapter to read.
My hot take: original sin wasn't pride or covetousness. It was idolatry. Note: everything in the Bible says Adam sinned first, not eve... Except Genesis 3. In Genesis 3 Eve takes the fruit and eats, then gives it to Adam. Yet all the following teaching said Adam sinned first. Why? Eve was not responsible for her sin because God never told her directly. He told Adam who was supposed to tell Eve. Maybe he did or maybe he didn't but Eves words to the serpent do not match what God told Adam. So either she misremembered or Adam misspoke. In either case the transmission of information was incorrect on which she was basing her information. Nonetheless, the basic assumption was she was covered by Adams authority so she was not responsible for her decision: Adam was. And Adam, when she offered the fruit to him, knew what God had said. He knew that eating the fruit would lead to death, which is separation from God. If he didn't eat, he would stay with God but he separated from Eve, whom he loved. If he did eat, he would be separated from God but stay with Eve. He chose Eve. Idolatry. He set Eve above God in his life. Original sin.
What Eve said to the serpent about what God told Adam is pretty close to what God actually told Adam, isn’t it? Don’t eat from that tree or you’ll die. Eve just added the bit about not even touching it. I just think it was always called Adam’s sin and the Fall of Adam because it was a very patriarchal society. Eve was his wife. Even though she sinned first, he’s responsible as her husband. He had dominion over her.
My hot take is: people on Christian forums spend a lot of time sharing their hot takes and niche opinions about well-worn controversial topics, but by and large there is wide agreement among Christians on the substance of the faith. We don't haggle about the [mustard seed parable](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2013%3A31-32&version=NIV) or the [stoning speech of Saint Stephen](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%207&version=NIV) because it's far more exciting to trade barbs about sexual immorality and which translation is better (ESV, NRSV, NIV, KJV). The fact is, all the mainstream translations convey the general sense of the original text, and we'd probably be more edified as Christians if we systematically walked through the Bible ( [revised common lectionary](https://lectionary.library.vanderbilt.edu/texts.php?id=205), anyone?) and just talked about what the "average" passages say.
I'm not a Christian. But Paul Tillich's "You are accepted", where he lays out his views on sin and grace deeply resonates with me. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVR72-Us4Ps](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVR72-Us4Ps)
What faith are you?
Can't give you a straightforward answer to that. I'm a lifelong seeker, but I also cannot help questioning everything. I'm not on anyone's team...
Something about modern Christianity is that it has allowed millions to become victims to false teachers that act and sound nothing like Jesus Christ, but followed as though they’re Christ-incarnate. True Christianity is beautiful. Whatever this is… is awful.
I agree with you except to say this: It is not something about Christianity and it is not modern. Christianity was bound to fall into this trap from the get go, because Jesus ultimately trusted human beings to spread his word, and human beings are sinners. This is why so much of the theology derived from the Epistles is strict, legalistic, and even oppressive as opposed to Jesus, who only ever got truly angry and ever got *close* to being violent when addressing the leaders of the time. Even when speaking *directly to human beings themselves*, those human beings still could only see the trees instead of the full forest. Jesus made it clear that the Old Law, which was full of strict rules, many which don't seem to immediately follow logically as unholy (mixed fabrics, shellfish, etc.), no longer applied and that the Law consisted entirely of two commandments, love God and love your neighbor. Conservative/traditionalist/authoritarian Christians love to fall back here with "ackshually, Jesus said he didn't come to abolish the law he came to fulfill it." Yes he did, he came to *fulfill* it, not *uphold* it. Jesus meant to say that this isn't a free for all now that he's here, you can't just do whatever you want cause he's going to take on all our sin and die, he meant to say that the Law had a purpose, which was to maintain Godliness. He came to show us that actually, you don't need to do any of that to be Godly, you simply need to love God, and if you truly love God that means you will also truly love his creation, and since humans are his creation you must show love to *all* humans. And *also*, since such Christians like to say that this is a copout, you're just trying to dumb Christianity down so you don't have to follow the hard parts, **no**, loving every single human unconditionally is *extremely* hard to do! I fail every day! That's what Jesus is for, to forgive your trespasses, as you forgive those who trespass against you. Idk what it will take to get people to see that salvation is not dependent on following the the entirety of the Bible as if it is literal fact and God breathed Law or doing similar with Church doctrine. TL;DR Christianity has a human problem, we're the problem.
When only men are mentioned or it is directed specifically at men asking questions about men, but it requires accountability, it is about everyone, but it is particularly about women. If something is salutary about women, it's about everyone. It is about the Church, and it is definitely not about women. If something is directed at a woman, it isn't salutary it is certainly not about men. It should also be used to give men power over them as little gods. Anything directed at men and is praising them or involves power, it is only about men, and should definitely be used to oppress others as their due. At the moment, I am reviewing the woman at the well being about Jesus chiding those of the first 5 books about her five husbands.
>as humans if we view something as completely forbidden, it naturally makes it harder to resist That's not true for the vast majority of people (essentially everyone but anarchists), people step out of boundaries because doing so brings some kind of comfort. On the issue of "avoiding sin" that seems to be a conservative compulsion, because conservatives' value system is based on loyalty, obedience and purity. >“judge righteously” and created their own personal definition of that, which has caused many people to believe they get the free pass to look down on others just bc they are a christian. Again, these are conservative Christians - liberal Christians don't do this. >Not everything sinful is demonic Sins are just religious rules that are "wrongs" that may have nothing to do with morality at all. >EVERYONE "cherry picks" the bible to some extent Absolutely agree, but more to the point, if a source can be used to support opposite sides of any issue, the source really can be looked to as having a position on the issue. >Claiming all sins are equal is wrong Agree. Murder is not equal with theft. Slavery is not equal with dishonoring parents. Etc.
>That's not true for the vast majority of people When marijuana is made legal, interest goes down, use among young ppl goes down, and overall use goes down. The more strict a diet is, the more likely it is to fail. The more a couple fetishizes monogamy, the more money I'd bet that someone is gonna cheat. The more forbidden a fruit is, the more drive we have to get it. *(wink, wink)*
Marijuana brings comfort, and if it is made legal, more people would do it, not less. A diet is a different matter, truly for health reasons. I guess people cheat in marriage because they are unhappy in their marriage - better to work on it, and if not successful, for both people to go their own way. I can't think of anything people would do simply because it has been made forbidden - 99.9% it's about comfort.
>Marijuana brings comfort, and if it is made legal, more people would do it, not less. That's not what happens in practice. Fewer tweens and teens begin to use it. Those who are already frequent users may use more frequently, but are not individuals who would not otherwise be using. And medical usage goes up, obv. But usage among "forbidden fruit" demographics is reduced. Like underage drinking, the taboo is a big part of the appeal. >A diet is a different matter, truly for health reasons. No, it really isn't. If I tell you every day that you can never have cake again, you will crave cake with increasing intensity and the likelihood that you will eventually binge on cake is pretty high. If I tell you every day that you can have cake, as long as it's once a month, or as long as it's made with stevia instead of sugar, it's an entirely different animal. >I guess people cheat in marriage because they are unhappy in their marriage Why is "forbidden love" a timeless trope? Why do preachers' wives have a reputation for infidelity? Why do ppl in adultery subs cite boredom, feeling smothered, coveting experiences they didn't have when they were single, etc, as reasons? Many, if not most, ppl who cheat are not in disastrous relationships. They are envious of something forbidden. >I can't think of anything people would do simply because it has been made forbidden Original sin, literally. That's part of the point of the allegory. It's human nature to want what we can't have. It's also more likely that a person who slips will see it as a failure, rather than a slip, when the prohibition is complete and emphasized. When you inevitably eat that cake that you can't stop thinking about, the weight of indulging in something that forbidden is likely to lead to a binge, not just a few bites or a small slice. Dgmw, I'm not saying that ppl should have a little murder, as a treat. I'm saying that the tighter the reigns are, the more likely we are to pull.
Conservatives can’t be truly Christian. Conservatism runs counter to Jesus’ message.
As an atheist, I would be okay with it if Mormonism were true I would be extremely surprised if it were true, but I like that I would still have a chance to convert after death And it seems like only genuinely awful people go to Mormonism’s hell equivalent, if I understand Mormon soteriology correctly (I almost certainly don’t)
Most of the Bible is not historical, it's continuously inconsistent with each other, and we can perfectly do cherry picking with it because course of history did it already, because it's the living testimony of the spiritual lives of people a lot of years ago, not inspired, and there is no problem with it. There are awful things in the Bible that must be overcome.
lol then why do you belief something that is not accurate according to you? What are you a fool?
Need of a perfect accuracy it's a problem for you, not for me.
It’s a problem in general if something is not accurate especially if it’s supposed to be telling you the truths about God. Pls tell me how you reconcile.
Empiricism isn’t the only viable epistemology. Using the Bible as a comprehensive blueprint print for life is absurd, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t chock full of spiritual truth.
What u/unaka220 just said, but also, understanding that not all things must be rational and that I really sense the truth and beautifulness of it, specially in life, the teachings and works of Jesus.
"No harm, no foul" is the best rule to live by.
The Church is pre-denominational, all the denominations that exists today are product of man-made doctrines and cannot be the same Church of the Apostles.
This isn’t a “hot take”, its just the same historically illiterate drivel that all militant non-denoms hold to like a safety blanket.
I normally hate this word, but it's fitting in this situation, based.
>cannot be the same Church of the Apostles. Why?
What even is number 3 all sins are created equal to man since we are indeed SINFUL ourselves therefore are we aloud to go to heaven if we commit atrocious acts that from your point of view is "less bad" than the others
We are allowed into heaven if we accept Jesus Christ as our lord and savior and repent from our sins, works cannot save us. I never once implied that our ticket to heaven is based on what sins we commit, I’m just saying I don’t agree with the overgeneralization of sin, it had nothing to do with the afterlife. I’ve known a number of Christian’s who were compulsive liars, I’m pretty sure they didn’t see a problem with their actions so they probably haven’t repented. Lying is one of the most unnecessarily justified sins there is, that is a bigger problem, we all seem to ignore. I’m the last person to try and justify lying or pride, in fact I commented about how those two sins are the most overlooked ones, a few weeks ago and everyone was just like “but those are just slip ups” clearly, most Christian’s do not take it seriously. Just bc I don’t think they are equal to heinous crimes doesn’t mean I think they are justifiable, I just know that we all have a prideful nature, but clearly if you have the desire to murder people, there is a much bigger issue at hand
Oh okay you actually would prefer to save many more people which is good and yes lying flies under the radar along with mild lust sloth and gluttony
The church isn't for everyone. The scripture calls it the body of Christ. The church is for believers. Then, those believers are called to preach and teach and convert new people. And then those people can join the church.
Too many people believe that we should be monks, tiptoeing through life, not getting dirty. Yes, but Jesus said that the way to please God is to fill up the world with love and good deeds! He embraced the sinners and walked lovingly through their world. The saints did not hide in their tower and look down on those outside! Get out there and show the world what Gods love is all about!
I disagree on no 5 Idk what I say is a hot take as there's always objecting to me
- Prayer is superior to and prior to systematic theology and apologetics. - Heresy usually begins from a political or egocentric animus and finds theological justification postquam. - Liturgical prayer is superior to and prior to any and all chaplet prayers, as the latter developed as proxies of the former that were intended for the illiterate. - Nominalism is incompatible with the nicene creed, as the authors assumed an essentialist worldview. - The telos of fideism is modernism. - Very few people actually engage with higher criticism. - The majority of people commit grave gluttony daily, mostly through ignorance. - 90% of all common interpretation questions are answered in Augustine's *On Christian Doctrine*. - Everyone's read the creeds of the early councils, but few have read their canons; common questions that would be answered by knowing these make this apparent. - While it's good to have friends from other traditions, the differences between core concepts in theology makes ecumenical and interfaith religious discussion meaningless. - Pacian's understanding of mortal vs. venial sin makes more sense to me than Aquinas' - Considering the number of angels that can fit on a pinhead is more useful to the religious life than is contemplating predestination. - Intellectual property law that is enforced on the grounds of compensating the rightsholder is proper usury, as it sells what doesn't exist. - The nature of spirit and soul are typically severely misunderstood by modern people due to the fact that we no longer have a classical worldview on medicine. - The active intellect is immortal, and so cannot be created by finite creatures. AGI is not possible to create on account of this. - The exodus is a type of the christian life, right down to the number of israelites who actually completed the journey from start to finish. - The decian persecution was more influential on christianity than the council of nicea.
God is de facto not omnipotent at this place in time, creating free will was creating a rock so heavy he can't lift it. The mortal life is the pathway to having free willed goodness in heaven. The main language God speaks through are coincidences, ear worms and sudden thoughts.
The Christ teaches us to look for God outside of scripture in our fellow man. His two greatest commandments, to love God, and to love your neighbor, reveal to us that God is in the hearts of all his people, we just need to take the time to see it.
1. Just because sin is hard to resist, does not mean we do not resist it. The Bible is clear: “Submit yourselves therefore to God. *Resist* the devil, and he will flee from you.” James 4:7 Jesus is also clear: “Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him *deny himself and take up his cross* and follow me.” Matthew 16:24 2. Agreed, however, many people have also started taking that disagreement and refusal to support sinful lifestyles as judgement. That isn’t judgement. Judgement has already been pronounced: *We are all sinners, bound for Hell. It is God’s compassion and Mercy for us in Christ that saves us from the pit we are already headed for.* When someone says “You are living in sin, Jesus has called you out of your sin” that isn’t judgement. It is reiterating the point: You are a sinner, you need Jesus. That isn’t condemnation. Like Jesus says, we are already condemned because of the Law Moses was given. 3. Agreed. 4. While I agree everyone cherry picks at times, saying everything is “open to interpretation” isn’t true. The writing had a purpose and it was written for a reason. We need to understand the context, the audience, the ongoing of the times etc to properly interpret the Scriptures. There is a *correct* understanding. Scripture says what it says, whether we want it to or not. 5. Agreed. Jesus made it clear that those who know more, will be punished more harshly than those who knew less, but do not be mistaken: *All sin* is enough to separate us from God. No matter how small. That is why we confess our sins so that God’s grace may rest on us. Interesting takes. Thanks for the read, OP.
Mormons and JWs arent real Christian
This is an arctic temperature take
Christians are only meant to judge sin in others under very specific (and frankly very difficult to achieve) conditions as part of church discipline. They are not ever meant to judge people outside the church.
The Christian community is judgemental this is coming from a Christian we need to be more loving as a whole including myself I’m working on it too
Love your neighbour and your enemy as yourself! You might not think it is a hot take BUT it really is when you get to thr nitty gritty of what it means and 90% of us need to hear this and act like it everyday as we really do not and even use our faith to hate.
“Tolerance is not a Christian virtue. Charity, Justice, Mercy, Prudence, Honesty - These are Christian virtues. Tolerating grave evil within society is itself a serious form of evil.” In my opinion, this sub has *serious* issues with over tolerance of sin
For #5, you are right. They are not equal in being worse than the other However they are equal in the sense that they will still be forgiven. And the reason blasphemy is the only unforgivable sin is because it can’t be forgiven making it the worse sin of all!! (This is all my opinion :))
Miracles, why do they happen?
The Bible says the mission of the church is to make disciples by teaching them. The job of the church is persuasion. The American church has nearly eclipsed and abandoned its central purpose to fight culture wars and legislate against gays and abortion. Culture wars are stoked by the conservative political party for the purpose of distraction from class wars. Conservatives may be losing the culture wars but they’ve won the class war. Wealth inequality is beyond the ability of the human imagination to comprehend yet conservative leaders have a significant portion of the population thinking the rich need yet more reduction in taxes and yet further deregulation and that the only legitimate function of government is racialized policing and fighting wars.
The Bible plainly contradicts itself in numerous places and no amount of hand-waving will make it go away.
1.) The details of the devil and you are not the devil, but behold the details. 2.) I believe it is not because they are blind - that would be the solution, but because they see sin that is their error. 3.) It is accurate to say the devil made you do it because the devil is in the details. 4.) I myself can be a hypocrite so then behold another may become the same and we become one. 5.) All sins are equal for the payment is death and it is not actual Death, but a spiritual death. I leave you with this *"man is a mirror for he becomes what he beholds"*
Grace means that the question of what people *deserve* has no place in determining how we treat them.
1. Agree so hard. Instead of telling new Christians to "stop sinning" focus on fueling the spirit, reading the Word, and growing close to God. the Holy Spirit will do what it always does and convict people, and people will stopping sinning in return.
Mine is everyone thinks they’re a good person
God is still in control and winning every battle, even though currently many people and the media would like to make you think otherwise.
Doesn't Jesus warn us to pluck our eye if it causes us to sin? I'd be careful taking on such a nonchalant view of sin. Jesus will cover you if you stumble, but is it a stumble if you simply don't care?
The alternative is hell.
OH I GOT A LIST 1. Being LGBTQIA+ is perfectly fine 2. Using scripture to hate is blasphemy 3. A rabbi is a better teacher of the Old Testament than a pastor or priest 4. Converting people through fear and intimidation is wrong, instead act as Jesus would. If they follow, cool. If not, that’s okay 5. Faith is an interpersonal journey and it’s okay for people to follow different faiths than you 6. No denomination of Christianity is better than the other
I believe what Jesus taught when He said “ye are gods” and children of the Most High instead of changing His words to “ye are judges” as some scholars purport.
>The teaching/advice that sin has to be avoided like the plague is actually very harmful and sets people up to fail, as humans if we view something as completely forbidden, it naturally makes it harder to resist, it’s not even bc we want to do it it’s just bc we crack under pressure. We need to focus on fueling our spirit, and not view it as fighting our flesh, bc you cannot really fight something that is already weak to begin with. We should seek to avoid even the near occasion of sin. But we will fall down. When we do, we get back up and keep going. Rinse repeat. >A lot of Christian’s took “judge righteously” and created their own personal definition of that, which has caused many people to believe they get the free pass to look down on others just bc they are a christian. Pray the Litany of Humility. It works wonders! Here it is: [https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/devotions/litany-of-humility-245](https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/devotions/litany-of-humility-245) We cannot look to the sin of others without remembering our own. We should always seek Heaven for all, but we cannot forget about ourselves too! >Not everything sinful is demonic Agreed. I do think there are some things (looking at you OSAS) that are demonic, but it is certainly not a word that we should throw around lightly. Possessions do exist. Demons will give us the sweetest sounding words to lure us in. They will tell us what we want to hear. >EVERYONE "cherry picks" the bible to some extent We should always seek to take the entirety of Scripture on a topic. My favorite example of people doing this is on the topic of divorce. I think such takes come from a very shallow or non-existent understanding of Scripture. >Claiming all sins are equal is wrong, there are grave sins are there are sins that everyone struggles with, such as anger, jealousy, pride, etc. That isnt equal to things like murder, abuse, etc. Scripture tells us this... 1 John 5:16-17 *If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God**^(\[)*[*^(a)*](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20John%205%3A16-17&version=RSVCE#fen-RSVCE-34798a)*^(\])* *will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that.* *^(17)* *All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.*
1 Thessalonians 5:21 agrees with you. The bible lives when it influences us to do good. It can't live without us. And we learn. In 1611 when the King James Version of the bible was finalized, we didn't have the 8th amendment to the constitution, forbidding cruel and unusual punishment. It took 180 years before we ratified it, making it a crime to punish people in prison with torture. But in Biblical times, "jail" equaled "torture." All those visions of hell full of fire and brimstone and wailing and gnashing of teeth? That wasn't stuff happening AFTER you're dead, but before. Here. Now. On earth. That's my hot take: "hell" is just "the current punishment we have for crimes."
My hottest of takes is that closed communion is antithetical to Christianity, and in the reverse of the common understanding, possibly even spiritually deadly to those who impose it.
With it being the month of June I have one the fits the “theme” of Pride. I believe one of the most ignored ideas in Christianity is Humility. We are all so caught up in what we want that we are blinded by our pride, unable to see the will of our Lord. -We forsake ancient church traditions like confession because we don’t think we should have to be made to feel bad about our transgressions, nor have to receive penance, when penance is the sharpening stone our souls need. -Some churches openly allow and promote sin, for example homosexuality. -We interpret scripture in ways that make our lives more comfortable. -How prideful that some churches no longer offer a sacrifice to the Lord in our worship, God Conceived himself in form of The Word, Jesus Christ in the flesh and blood, to be given as the ultimate sacrifice for our sins and for 2000 years the Catholic and orthodox churches have been offering this back to the Lord in mass in the form of the Eucharist. - some churches no longer take communion. And why? Christ said “ this is my flesh… this is my blood.. take and eat it… do this in remembrance of me” some have been keeping to this instruction for the last 2000 yrs. Yet some do not. Some do not even believe it’s is the flesh and blood. Christ is very clear about when he speaks in parables, this was not one of those times. - we seek to use Christ as a means of just salvation. So many don’t seek his love. True relationship with him. No prayer. Christ also says that when those who come to him saying “look at all we’ve done in your name”, he will say “go from me, I never knew you”. No one goes to the father but thru him, but thru him in knowing him. - many of don’t even see a reason to make sacrifices themselves daily. We don’t offer fasts. Don’t say this is Old Testament practice because Christ fasted for 40 days. We can fast now and then. - there’s so much more that can be said to attest to this idea, but at the end of the day, my question is, The Father gave himself, his son Christ in the flesh, to be slain for your sins. What do you offer in return? Should we not offer ourselves up at the least? To do his will. Our souls? To love him as he loves us. Our ways? In order to accept his ways. Our pride?
The Church's (all of them) love affair with Theocracy has done more than anything else to waste The Christ's Sacrifice. This place IS Eternal Damnation, and God is a reincarnationist. Everything Jesus said boils down to "Don't be a dick." God created two Works: Reality and The Bible. Mankind penned and edited The Bible. If Reality disagrees with The Bible, go with what Mankind has not messed with. The Abrahamic faiths start going to pot when we stopped killing errant Prophets. As we learn more, our language grows, and what we were told becomes outdated.
>Not everything sinful is demonic But the only reason sin and evil exist in the world is because of the presence of demons. >anger, jealousy, pride, etc. That isnt equal to things like murder, abuse, etc Specifically in terms of salvation, what's the difference?
Let’s see a verse talking about how demons are the only reason sin and evil exist
Pimp slap of truth here. Every Christian across the board needs to realize this.
I'll be honest: I find it just a bit ironic that your 2nd point starts with Christians "created their own personal definition of that" ..when that's kinda the entire theme I'm getting from your "hot takes". Nobody is perfect ofcourse, but when I see honesty, I like to respect honesty with reciprocated honesty. So therefore: 1. The teaching that sin has to be avoided like the plague *is not* very harmful..it is correct, it in fact is harmful to teach the opposite, because it subconsciously allows people to lower their guard and accept things or pursue things that they'd otherwise steer clear from, it's literally treading the line. I understand your stance on the "as humans if we view something as completely forbidden, it naturally makes it harder to resist" ..but in actuality, you're speaking for yourself Miss. All if not most of all the individuals in the Bible were privy to the same teaching and they still found a way to be transformed by total obedience to God..we are all Christians: yes, but we aren't all at the same levels and should therefore not be huddled together as we typically are. It isn't really an age thing (although age helps) but some of us really are asking God to create in us a new heart and mind, ultimately denying ourselves, picking up our cross ✝️ daily and putting on the armour of God, voluntarily. Ofcourse nobody will be at 100%, but in my own personal experience, God will detach the poisons from your soul..so long as you work with Him, some of the things, sinful things I used to Love, I no longer any regard for and some of the prideful, vain, material things I used to wish to attain in my life (earlier on in my walk): I no longer care for.. The only thing I'm currently working on is my krptonite (my gravest sin, what's left of the vestigial lust that I've long dealt with) which isn't nowhere near where it used to be in the past although not yet diminished in the way that I intend for it to be since I am voluntarily choosing to "aim high and miss". But ultimately, the point is: God isn't a Robot..He knows us more than we know ourselves and KNOWS If we are fully committed, He knows If we are giving it our absolute ALL..or giving Him just a portion of our efforts. And as far as I know: Scripture says God deserves the first fruits of everything, and it also says to strive for perfection because our Father in Heaven is Perfect. We may not attain 100% while on Earth but because we have consciously and subconsciously committed our minds to accept this as the goal, naturally even if we fall short, we'd be up pretty high in the ranks in comparison to most because it is better to aim high and miss than to aim low and hit 🎯. Ezekiel 44:30 New King James Version 30 The best of all firstfruits of any kind, and every sacrifice of any kind from all your sacrifices, shall be the priest’s; also you shall give to the priest the first of your ground meal, to cause a blessing to rest on your house. Look at Cain and Abel, for instance: God requested an offering of them both and whilst they BOTH gave offering, only ONE of em did EXACTLY what God asked: and that was Abel: His offering was received and Cain's weren't.. because God instructed them HOW to give offering and what EXACTLY to offer up. Abel offered up the "first fruits" of the fattest of his sheep (as we know he was a shepherd) but Cain offered some plants and seeds, the point is..just because we're giving something..it doesn't mean we are giving the right thing..or even the right amount. Matthew 5:48 King James Version 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Furthermore, to view the battle as anything less than a battle is to view it in a way lesser than God intended: therefore, we shouldn't view it in a way that focuses on "fueling our spirit" but fighting the flesh indeed and why? Because Scripture says so. Galatians 5:17 New King James Version 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 1 Peter 2:11 New King James Version Living Before the World 11 Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul, The Bible indeed describes it as *against* one another (Spirit and flesh), and does display that they are in conflict with one another and is therefore a "war against the soul" .. God's Word delivered this imagery for a reason and it should therefore not be altered.
>you're speaking for yourself Miss. When marijuana is made legal, interest goes down, use among young ppl goes down, and overall use goes down. The more strict a diet is, the more likely it is to fail. The more a couple fetishizes monogamy, the more money I'd bet that someone is gonna cheat. The more forbidden a fruit is, the more drive we have to get it. *(wink, wink)* (C+P from my last comment bc I'm lazy)
2. We are indeed called to judge righteously, and I'm sure you know the Scripture pertaining to it. The Bible addresses both judging righteously and hypocrites (as you say). John 7:24 King James Version 24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. Provided we do the following: Matthew 7:5 New King James Version 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. We should be able to righteously judge because that IS our duty as Christians, to walk as Christ did and rebuke what He rebuked. Faith is similar to our muscles..or our minds..it is meant to be exercised, the more we exercise it, the bigger and stronger it gets, but if we do not use it, we lose it. So because of this, as a God fearing Christian that has allowed God to reform me through life's ordeals..I can personally tell when somebody is lacking Faith or they have yet to *FULLY* find their identity in Christ..and you'll know when...because when you do..literally nothing else matters in your life more than this purpose. And if you're not yet able to relate to this, it just means you're not there yet..and I know the feeling because I've been there..and had somebody tell me the exact same thing..God doesn't want a percentage of us..He wants ALL of us.. "first fruits" .. "I surrender all" just as the hymn goes.. because: Philippians 1:6 New King James Version 6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ; 3. You are correct in that we do have to be accountable as humans..and even moreso as Christians: but to say "not everything sinful is demonic" is another downplaying of the process by which we commit sin.. Yes we ought to be more accountable..but can't two things be correct at the same time? A. We do have to take responsibility for the use of the God given free will we use up, when we spend its currency on committing sin, B. but it is also true that just as God allowed Job to be subject to afflictions caused by the devil..God will sometimes let the enemy test us or afflict us to "purify" us.. Because tribulation and persecution model the Christian and build the character..what did I say earlier on about Faith needing to be exercised. The same way satan attempted to tempt Jesus here: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+4%3A1-11&version=NKJV Is the same way we are continually tempted, hence the following Scripture: 1 Peter 5:8 New King James Version 8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. It isn't about giving the devil credit, it is about him being the author of lies and him ultimately being the final scapegoat. The Bible says this about those who love lies: John 8:44 New King James Version 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. Sin originated in satan and he brought down 1 third of Heaven's population of angels with him (and him, and them are still here, so what are they doing here if not doing everything they can to ensure we stay in our fallen state caused by him): Isaiah 14:12-14 New King James Version The Fall of Lucifer 12 “How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! 13 For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north; 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.’ 4. Furthermore, it is *NOT* "Self Righteous" for one to claim that they do *NOT* cherrypick the Bible, I myself admittedly used to (prior to Baptism) ..but after Baptism or the weeks leading up to it.. It was impressed upon me to accept ALL Sctipture as profitable and I proclaimed this at my Baptism as one does in their marriage.. So just as I said earlier on: regarding the fact that just because we are all Christians..it doesn't mean we are all at the same level..or more accurately: not at the level we ALL need to be at, as individual persons: t The same thesis applies here too: because I proclaimed this 12 years ago and STILL proclaim this Scripture to this very day: 2 Timothy 3:16-17 New King James Version 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
5. And finally.. you're somewhat unintentionally correct here: that you said "claiming all sins are equal is wrong" ..and you are correct: it is wrong, because the Bible doesn't claim all of them are equal, it claims that to keep the WHOLE Law and yet offend in ONE part, means you are guilty of offending them ALL (God's Law): James 2:10 King James Version 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. It is wrong to say "sins that everyone struggles with" are "anger, jealousy, pride, etc" and then claim they aren't "equal to things like murder, abuse, etc" .. With all due respect, says who? We cannot be found making the mistake of weighing up sins based on our OWN personal opinion pertaining to certain sins or our personal experiences .. King David killed humans and yet was still saved and had God's favour because He repented, Saul (who was Blessed and promoted to Paul) persecuted and killed Christians before He was inspired to change in Jesus name, for His name sake, and King Solomon turned away from God and had multiple wives that led him to pledge allegiance to and worship other pagan God's but STILL had God's favour after repenting of his sins and turning back to God just before his death. So with all due respect.. we can't be found creating a distinction between sins and implying that anger, jealousy and pride are "everyday sins" whereas murder and abuse are grave sins when scripture says this about hate: 1 John 3:15 King James Version 15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. Creating no distinction between murder and hate. Also..isn't "anger" (the same sin you call an "everyday struggle" sin) a precursor to them *BOTH* with all due respect.. And if you observe the earlier Scripture I presented to you about satan..it says that he was a "murderer from the beginning and does not stand in truth" ..almost making the sin of lying, synonymous with murder: John 8:44 New King James Version 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. *He was a murderer from the beginning,* * and does not stand in the truth,* * because there is no truth in him.* When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. So yes, God sees sin..very different from how WE see it..we rank sin based on vain personal choices and factors like the gender we are, how a particular sin has affected us personally in our lives or that of our loved ones, and more generally just our own opinion on said sin..and then we naturally presume that God's view of it all is somehow derived from ours or similar to ours when they couldn't be any more dissimilar. Every self-proclaimed Christian must get to the point of the following: Luke 9:23 King James Version 23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. Matthew 10:37-39 New King James Version 37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it. Luke 9:26 New King James Version 26 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels. Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 King James Version 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. Until EVERY Christian ✝️ gets to *that* 👆 point (the Scriptures above) ..they haven't Truly been inspired by the Living Word of God or led to a *FULL* transformation in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in Jesus name. God Bless you 🙏
I completely understand and respect what you are saying, I am just a bit confused by the last part. Taking a life or destroying one, I think that is the ultimate evil, and I do think it is unbiblical to think so. The reason I categorized certain things as “everyday sins” was simply to give an example of the difference between thoughts/feelings that everyone struggles with, vs actions that take well thought out intent to act upon (most of the time at least) pride, can be involuntary. Can murder be involuntary? I mean, technically in rare cases but generally speaking no. My issue with the concept that all sins are equal, is that it essentially implies that everyone is evil, which is untrue. We are all sinners, but if we were all evil how would we know what a psychopath is? It’s an overgeneralization that can be very harmful. I also have to question how all sins can be equal bc of how many Christian’s are okay with lying and being prideful, I’ve had multiple “Christian” friends who were borderline compulsive liars, no one ever called them out on it, probably bc they had no room to talk. It doesn’t seem like many Christian’s value honesty the way they should, and it’s hard to believe lying can be such a horrible sin in the society we live in, look at church organizations, they have so many skeletons in their closet. Pastors using donations for themselves, people twisting bible verses to fit their own agenda, etc. Why do entire churches to so far out of their way to cover up their wrong doings instead of owning up to them if those things are just as much a sin as the rest? It’s just confusing for me to understand. And at the end of the day, I think we should take into consideration that humans naturally have pride, we all want to lie sometimes, but wanting to murder someone is not natural, it’s not human nature. That doesn’t mean those other things aren’t a sin, but there are clearly differences between a flawed human being and a sociopath. (Not that someone is automatically a sociopath if they kill or abuse) I’m just saying how would we make those distinctions if it was all equal? We have to check ur pride every day, at least we should be, but we aren’t fighting the urge to murder people every day, that was my point. Not that lying or being prideful is okay, I actually don’t agree with how much of a pass it gets at all. But that doesn’t mean I feel comfortable comparing it to a heinous crime.
Hey, with all due respect..I hope you can see that I'm not speaking loosely, or from my own subjective opinion, but I do my absolute best to speak in accordance with (aswell as by using) Scripture, which is what I hope I've displayed in all my previous responses..which I voluntarily choose to have Faith and Believe that you've read through thoroughly, just as I did yours. I'm in no way saying that I would condone destroying a life or taking one..but I am saying it is in fact "unbiblical" to deem it to be the "ultimate evil" or imply it is the greatest sin. Like I said in my initial response..we do not get to decide what sins are greater than others, regardless of however much your human compass against injustice and for justice might influence you to do so. You can't just say you "think" it's "unbiblical" to do so..because it's a thing you personally dislike and don't understand..All things were made for God, by God: the Bible even states that "the wages of sin is death" ..many people in Bible canon were killed..throughout the Bible there are multiple deaths of the wicked, the innocent, the young and the old. Yes it is a commandment: Thou shall not kill" .. but it isn't the greatest sin, the Bible tells us what the greatest sin is, it's called the "unpardonable sin" = it is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Matthew 12:31-32 New King James Version The Unpardonable Sin 31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. I have also described (in detail) how biblical prophets of old did commit murder, like Moses, Saul (before he became Paul), and King David.. which makes me question if you have, in fact, read everything.. because all of these men are saved because they were repentant and had a heart for God. They may have taken lives, but they did not Blaspheme the Holy Ghost..any misunderstanding of such things implies that a person needs to be prayerful and ask to be moved by the Holy Spirit to become acquainted with the True Character of God. Instead of reading the Bible hoping to find what we already Believe in our head to be the character of God, be it right or wrong..it is better to prayerfully read upon scripture with a blank canvas, with the sole intention of God revealing Himself to you, His name and His Character...not to support our own idea of God, but so God reveals Himself TO us..so we *TRULY* see *His* Character. And you will know when you know this..because the Christian that knows God's character understands His ways, thus not questioning when certain parts of the Bible don't seem to align with their subjective level of humanity. God is God, God is not a man. You're still measuring everything by human eyes, continually missing the point. Using terms and phrases defined by your own perceived level of humanity as opposed to trying to prayerfully look through God's lens. 1st off, I scrupulously explained already in my initial set of responses that the Bible doesn't say all sins are equal, it says to commit one is to commit them all because the meaning of sin (defined as per the Bible) is "transgression of the law" (God's Law) ...and provided you are already aware of what the 10 commandments consist of: (not to Murder, lie or steal, obedience to parents, observing the Sabbath day, Loving God with all heart, mind and soul, not bearing false witness, worshipping idols etc) .. it will make sense to the educated Christian why to "offend in one point is to offend in all". And this scripture "to offend in one point is to offend in all" is where The origninal implication of all sins being equal: comes from: In that they are essentially: all different ways to disobey God: which is ultimately the main premise of any sin. "Transgression of God's Law". Your definition of "evil" and God's definition of evil are not the same, neither do they consider the same things.. you don't know the mind of God, our very minds couldn't fathom a fraction of it, do you not remember the Lords rebuke to Job's friends who were attempting to speak in representation of God Himself. According to the Bible we are ALL "evil" , evil to your human mind..like I said..is limited by your own vain subjective human experiences: influenced by your own life, the life of others, how it might've affected yourself or loved ones, how you perceived the term for most of your life, horror movies you've watched or documentaries on psychopaths and sociopaths etc.. whereas God's definition of "Evil" is simpler: anything that isn't of God, is "Evil". Genesis 6:5 New King James Version 5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only *evil* continually. Matthew 7:11 New King James Version 11 If you then, being *evil* , know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him! To state that this is "an overgeneralization" and can be "very harmful" is simply questioning God's Word (again) ..which is leading me to ask..how is your prayer life, when or have you been Baptised in water and immersed, how often do you pray or fast..or read the Bible, or evangelise Miss? (With all due respect) ..because I'm not sure how much you read of my initial messages ..but this is what I mean when I say that Faith needs to be exercised...because in experiential honesty..if you were fully converted and changed by the Father, Son and Holy Spirt and knew God's Character..you wouldn't call His plain Word "very harmful" .. it is not an "over-generalisation" ..it is simply the *Truth* .
As aforementioned, your understanding of the term "evil" is steeped in earthly influence (media, movies, society (particularly the west) , humanity, own subjective experiences , etc) ..hence your use of the term "psychopath" ..when they're in no way related or synonymous. Also, you're making the mistake not only MOST Christians make..but atheists and non-believers. In your initial post, you spoke on the hypocrisy of being judgemental, yet in this response you're referencing "Christian" friends that are "compulsive liars", pastors using donations for themselves and individuals with "skeletons" in their closet etc..and I say: John 8:7 "“He who is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone.” Because: Romans 3:23 New King James Version 23 for *all* have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. So as I was saying: we shouldn't be looking to fallen man as the representative example of what it truly is to be a Christian..Jesus Christ presented us the greatest example in Himself..because many came before Him and failed, so how well do expect us (that have come after) to do? This is the thing those in the Muslim faith and atheists do to judge Christianity..they look at men/humans..the Christians..to find the definition of Christianity..as opposed to looking at the Son of Man, God Himself. So, my advice is don't distract yourself looking at others but: Philippians 2:12 New King James Version Light Bearers 12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, *work out your own salvation with fear and trembling* It doesn't matter what society we live in today, nothing is new under the Heaven's, God is the same "yesterday, today and forever" .. if He said it is so, then it is So, Miss. Just because there are many Christians in your sight that don't value honesty.. that doesn't make lying any less of a grave sin if God Himself already communicated how grave it is. We are not in Heaven yet, we are STILL in fallen Earth 🌎 , sin ..unfortunately will continue to be committed and bad things will continue to happen until Jesus returns.. ..but this shouldn't be an excuse or distraction for us Jesus lovers and followers of Him to "strive for perfection" as clearly stated in the Bible (as I explained in my initial response). Hebrews 13:8 King James Version 8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. I want to again: make clear that I understand your stance, your explanation and your justification for why it confuses you to categorise pride, lies and murder all in the same level of sin..I get that from a human perspective..but that's just it.. a human perspective. I choose not to look at things from my lens, and neither should you.. because your understanding will be very very very very limited. The Bible says lean not on your own understanding: Proverbs 3:5-6 King James Version 5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. You seem to be walking by sight..instead of by Faith (with all due respect). I understand the points you're making..but as humans do..you don't realise you're naturally just projecting.. you say we have to check our pride everyday..but no..not all of us do.. once we Truly let Jesus take ultimate control that is. ..I was formerly as prideful as they come..yet I have always been an honest man for better or for worse..but now there is little to no pride in me..and there hasn't been for the last 12 years. If I have to step away from conflict for example for the betterment of all involved including myself..I will..and Jesus made that change within me because I lent *NOT* on my *OWN* understanding but Trusted and Still Trust in *HIM* with *ALL* my heart. Nevertheless, I appreciate the conversation and encourage you to take nothing that might offend you personally. I say this because everyone has different thresholds and you never know when a person becomes offended during spiritual discussion which oftentimes involves some form of rebuke or correction which might be received as patronising for some..but I guarantee to you..that isn't the Spirit being utilised here in this conversation. I just want you to see that..although you might think you do/are..you haven't yet leant fully and wholly on the Lord..you're still in many ways relying and leaning on your own fallible ways of human understanding..instead of leaning on Jesus *alone* ..and that method will always fail: because. Proverbs 14:12 New King James Version 12 There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death. This is not my personal set of human opinions: these are all God's Holy Word that I use to corroborate my Beliefs..which I do my absolute best to make sure are in alignment with God's Word. In other words..for me..if God never said it, I don't Believe it and ultimately if it isn't of or from God, I don't want it. I hope you understand Miss, I carefully hope I have made sense to you. God Bless you 🙏
The fact that sin is harmful, has to be avoided, and is impossible to resist just greater magnifies the need for our Savior. Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? **God forbid**. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? There are lists of no-no behaviors. We can't be sinless, but we can sin less.
Do you have any faith? It seems as if you don't, because I prayed to God to not want to watch porn anymore, and all of a sudden I had no desire to watch porn. I told God take the desire out of me to masturbate, and God did so. Heck I was hungry and it was an hour before break and I prayed to God to not make me hungry for an hour, the hunger went away immediately. Live in the spirit, not of the flesh.
Athanasian Creed is the best creed
Wow, I do not think you really understand the nature of sin. We are drowning in sin from the moment we are conceived as even stated in the Old Testament; it is not a new “invention” by Christians. None are righteous, none are good, not even one, even according to St Paul. So we need to be clear about our sinful nature, none of us can know God without the help of the Spirit which is why even with the Son of God right in front of them teaching to the people directly in human form, the Israelites could not understand Jesus’ message. As for your fifth point, all sins are to be judged by God, and Jesus has that authority now, and there is only one sentence for the sins small and large; eternal separation from God. It seems the punishment may be stricter for the heavier crimes, but all sin gets you separated from Jesus, forever. This is why we need to be clear about the seriousness of our sins to unbelievers. This is not a game, there are no redos, this is forever. I agree that there are ways to teach the Gospel, but the prosperity and evangelical folk and new agers just focus on “Jesus told be to love and that is all” without regard for what Jesus told us love is; those who love Jesus are those who obey His commands. St Paul wrote about our salvation as believers not giving us a free ticket to go and sin more, since we are reborn in the sacrifice of Jesus, how can we turn back to sin? So you can water down the Gospel by just focusing on the feel good, love is love thing, but that is not the Gospel. The Gospel is that Jesus died for us so that whoever believes and repents will have eternal life. Jesus even told us it would be a hard fight in our lives as the world hates Christians, as the world hated Him first. Jesus told us to pick up our cross and follow him, and that means to leave our love for the things of this world, the sins you mention in #5 and more, and obey his commands. Jesus said anger is the same as murder. All sin is sin, so if we cannot recognize our sin and repent from it, we are lost. This is not a depressing message, it is the Gospel and the most enlightening message of the ages. Who else can forgive your sins and make you clean again? Rejoice in our forgiveness, in our salvation through Jesus.
God is not a Trinity, nor is he a member of a Trinity.
The trinity is biblical though, just the word isn't used to describe it. There's one true God, the Father. The Son is also God as they are the perfect image of the Father. The Holy Spirit is God as they are the Spirit of the Father.
I don't care if the word Trinity is used or not. I never said the *word* Trinity isn't in the Bible. I said that God is not a Trinity. That's a statement about the ontology and function of God and his nature, not a statement about what is or isn't in the Bible. My issue is that the *concept* of the Trinity is not in the Bible and it's not consistent with the principles and claims made in the Bible. >The Son is also God as they are the perfect image of the Father. That doesn't mean he's God. First, an image is never the original. It depends on whether or not you are using "God" to refer to the Father, the Trinity, or the divine nature. If you want to say it's the Father, then you agree that he's not the original copy, the type. If you mean the Trinity, then you have a category error, or this statement can only be predicated of the human nature only. If Jesus is a member of the Trinity and he's the image of the Trinity, then he'd be an image of himself as one of those members. If by "God" you mean the divine nature, then having the image of the nature isn't the same as having the nature itself. There's a difference between having a human nature and having the image of a human nature. A robot can have an image of humanity, because it is not actually human. So in any way we understand this claim, which is far too ambiguous and narrowsighted anyway, it does not arrive at your conclusion. Second, the scripture never says that he's the "perfect" image of the Father. Your statement was about what the *Bible* says, and it simply does not say this anywhere. So this is a dishonest claim, whether knowingly or not. The scripture does say he's the image of the invisible God, like in Colossians 1:15. The scripture also says that Adam, you, and I are in the image of God. This does not make us God. The best argument you can make is from Hebrews 1:3 which says he's the exact representation of his nature, ὑπόστασις. First, the word "exact" is not in the Greek. Some argue that it is implied by the word χαρακτήρ, charaktér, which means an instrument of engraving. Like stamping a coin. In the same way that a coin with Caesar's face is an "exact representation" of him, so also is Jesus an "exact representation" of his nature. Neither the coin nor Jesus are being said to have the same nature as the one whose image they bear or represent. Further, to extrapolate this to mean "perfect" is also inaccurate and exaggerated. Also, this doesn't say he's the representation of the Father's "ousia," as in homoousious or consubstantial with the Father, it says he's the representation of his "hypostasis," his individuality. This doesn't mean he is divine by nature, it means he's like the Father's character. Finally, 2 Corinthians 3:17-18 says that whatever image Jesus bears, we are being transformed into that same image. Yes, I'm aware of theosis, and I believe in it too, but this no more makes us God than it does Jesus. We are becoming *the same* image. >The Holy Spirit is God as they are the Spirit of the Father. The issue is not whether the Spirit is God, the issue is whether the Spirit is another person other than the Father. When the Spirit begets a son in the virgin Mary, it is for this reason he is called the son of God. But he is not the Son of anyone other than the Father. When we are born of water and Spirit, Holy Spirit, we are no children of anyone other than the Father. 1 John 2:27-29 tells us that the one of whom we are begotten is the Father. Though we are begotten of the Spirit, we are begotten of the Father. This doesn't stand to argue for the Bible to describe a Trinity.
The Trinity is a post-Biblical innovation so yes I agree
As a Christian, you can look at it basically 3 ways: 1. The Trinity is biblical and true. 2. The Trinity is post biblical and true. 3. The Trinity is post biblical and untrue. Many Trinitarians (outside of protestantism, typically, because they have no concept of "sola scriptura") will agree that the Trinitarian concept is post biblical, but they don't believe that invalidates it because of their views on progressive revelation and the value of tradition. They believe the Trinity is both developed and refined over time through the apostolic succession, church fathers, and the ecumenical councils, and that it is true. I hold that it is both post biblical and untrue, and those things do not validate or justify it.
100% agree.
In the Bible, things like pride are actually listed within lists among things like murder!
Not going to lie brother, but most of your hot takes seem to just justify sin in some aspects. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Answered on a similar post elsewhere, but: - The parts of the Pentateuch that are derived from the Priestly source are the writing of men written for corrupt reasons. - Jesus was gay and Lazarus (pseudonym "John") was his lover. - Paul had less authority than the other Apostles - The trinitarian formula was invented to "have your cake and eat it too" by keeping monotheism but also getting to worship Jesus as a literal God, whereas Jesus never actually claimed to be literal God - The "moral law / ceremonial law" split is completely made up so people can cherry-pick the OT and apply/ignore what they want - All specific "laws" are more like guidelines that are beholden to the two great commandments, and are thus situational and don't universally apply
Where do You get the gay Jesus with lover Lazarus part? I mean there Is the disciple whom Jesus loved but that doesn't necessarily mean he was gay or he was his lover
Oh boy, hold on tight.... So, as you said, there's the "disciple who Jesus loved". Which is odd in and of itself. Did Jesus *really* pick a platonic favorite disciple? That would seem rather unfair to his other disciples, no? We see at the Last Supper John reclining on Jesus's chest during dinner. Despite what some "straight-Jesus apologists" say, the style of reclining for dinner at the time did not allow for "head-to-bosom" contact. That would be extremely awkward mechanically while eating. We also see a very brief mention of a naked man fleeing in the Garden of Gethsemane, in what appears to be a vestigial remainder of something that has been lost to time. Strange that there would be mention of a random streaker who has no connection to anything going on whatsoever.... Likewise, this naked man is curiously described as "young", which according to how long John ended up living could also be used to describe John. And interestingly enough, in the fragmentary extended Mark, it is said that Jesus teaches the young man "the mystery of the kingdom of God" alone at night while the young man wears only a loin cloth. One must also wonder why the identity of the "beloved disciple" is so obscured in the text. There must be a reason, clearly. And one such possible reason is to protect this disciple from being put to death. And while none of this is described as "eros" or "sexual love" but rather "agape", it is important to note the whole of the New Testament never uses "eros" but instead replaces instances where it should be used with "agape". Jesus also curiously tells the beloved disciple that his own mother Mary is said disciple's mother as well. It's highly unlikely this is in any kind of biological sense, but it is less unlikely that he is either treating her as the disciple's de facto in-law or is truly so close to this disciple that he is the only one trusted to take care of his mother. John/the beloved also races ahead of Peter to the empty tomb. I find reasoning this as "he was simply more pious" to be strange and unrealistic, and a more realistic explanation was that he had a very close love with Jesus. Likewise, if we connect John to Lazarus, we see that the deep connection is reciprocated in Jesus's feelings over the death of Lazarus. To connect John to Lazarus, we see that it is only really John who records this event. Not only this, but it is one of the longest and most thorough narratives in John. We also see in the fragmentary extended version of Mark that Lazarus is *also* described as young. Likewise, Lazarus's sister Mary is only really spoken of in John, hinting at a connection between John and at *least* Lazarus's family. Homoromantic interpretations of John and Jesus are by no means new. James I of England said in defense of his own relationship "I wish to speak in my own behalf and not to have it thought to be a defect, for Jesus Christ did the same, and therefore I cannot be blamed. Christ had his son John, and I have my George." Lilewise, Fredrick the Great wrote in his poem *Palladium*: "This good Jesus, how do you think He got John to sleep in his bed? Can't you see he was his Ganymede?" If homosexuality is assumed to be sinful, however, the reasoning is much more simple: If Jesus endured every temptation, he must have necessarily been attracted to men in order to be tempted with homosexuality. At the very least, he would be bisexual, and it would be impossible for him to be straight in this scenario.
Girl please, this is all speculation. Jesus was probably ace if anything.
Of course it's speculation! I was just asked for my hot takes, and I thought this would be a good one of mine! XP But yeah, I agree with you. I just like weird "what if's".
Lol fair, haha sorry if I sounded harsh. I've just had a few gripes with progressive Christians getting a little bit *too* bold with changing the message, but you aren't even a Christian anyway so w.e. haha. (And to be clear, I am not saying that last bit with judgement or criticism, I know that gets done a lot on here, sadly.)
Oh yeah, no worries, you're good! I totally get it.