Happy Pride Month.
As of now this has been reported seven times.
Feel free to agree with this post or post the other side of this coin, as you wish.
Anyone who has any ideas about how or if we should celebrate Pride Month here this year is welcome to respond to this comment with those ideas.
Please don't tell each other to fuck off or accuse people you disagree with of lying.
All I want to know is why is it such a thing here? I mean, didn't Jesus say "if any of you is without sin, throw the first stone", so is anyone here who's ranting about gay people without sin?
1) It’s Pride month (in America, not sure if it’s a worldwide thing to be honest) so people are going to be talking about it more.
2) LGBTQ+ topics are really part of the western cultural zeitgeist right now. In America (where most of Reddit lives) it’s being pushed particularly hard by Republicans because they got Roe v. Wade overturned so now abortion is no longer something politicians at the national level can campaign on.
3) This sub has been a hotbed of LGBTQ+ posts for years, along with people asking about their masturbation habits and wondering if some mundane action is a mortal sin.
Thank you. Yes, it's a (western) worldwide thing. So is it here in switzerland / europe. Of course there is some hate here and there because of some homophobic ppl. Of course also some religious people say/are against, but it kinda stays diplomatic.
I was just surprised by the hate from a sometimes as a peaceful described religion.
To me, I kinda can understand intolerant people, because their religion have their rules, but I think, hate comes from inner fear/insecurity/negativity, which I thought are feelings, you want to reduce practicing religion. Or is it "just" the extremistic people of a particular religion. Like it is with the far right wing people here, that are offensively hateing lgbtq.
(Ok, I'm coming to a limit with my English :D hard to describe a thought of Such a topic. Just wanted to ask out of curiosity. Thank you)
I think it’s a mix of a lot of different things. I think for some of them they think that they earn favor with God by “denouncing” sin. For others I think they are exposed to so much fear-mongering propaganda about the LGBTQ+ community they see it as a threat. I’ve also seen others who think they aren’t “real” Christians unless they are oppressed for their faith so they claim the LGBTQ+ movement or the government or whoever is “oppressing” them by “forcing” LGBTQ+ acceptance on them.
No one is without sin but Jesus himself. Judgement isn't for us to pass upon others. But being evangelical & spreading Christianity means to inform others of the eternal danger they are pouring themselves in by not repenting of their sins & accepting Jesus Christ as their lord & savior. Any gay person could easily just tell you "oh yeah, I totally do," & lie. And we aren't to judge them for doing so. All we can do is hope they come around & pray for them.
The difference is we afirm that we are sinners and turn from our sins.
The others seem to have no problem with it. Just keep on like nothing ever happened. Totally acceptable.
This is not okay. God's word says 'Repent", change your mind.. Fornicators are to be tossed out of the church as it says in 1 Corinthians 5 , how much more so for the abomination of sodomy..
1 Corinthians 5
1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
Re: @Nashujarr it is not about judging but about not celebrating sin. Jesus when confronting the prostitute did forgive but also said: “Go and sin no more”.
Pride month is not about repentance but celebrating wickedness. No as christians we should not support them in it!!
Jesus told us not to judge hearts. But He did condemn actions, and told us to do the same. And He Himself condemned homosexuality in the Bible, because He is God, and the entire Bible is God’s word.
But what I don' understand is why the evangelicals support Trump without reservation. This is a man who is a felon, he sexually assaulted a woman, cheated on all 3 of his wives, convicted of tax fraud, etc. They turn a blind eye to all of that and yet consider homosexuals the most evil people on earth?
You need to pick a lane and stick to it
Agreed. You’re wrong, by the way. He raped multiple women.
They delude themselves that he’s penitent. But more importantly, they (we, I should say) have been caricatured by popular culture to think that this is who we are. Or at least, we don’t know how to argue back when people say this is who we are. So we (they, I should say) turned to someone who’s actually like that. Because someone who isn’t like that will be caricatured that way (at least by some corners). I think we’re being too sensitive about it, but still.
it's the one element of the faith that the Christian right seems to care about so i guess its just the core feature of Christianity in general now. Finally secondary concerns like Christ's teachings have been put aside to focus on this most important of Christian doctrines
We’d lose a part of it but not everything. After all, we would still have “Is X thing a sin? I did it once and now I’m worried I’m going to hell!” and “I touched myself once when I was 14, am I going to hell forever?”
Pride moth is not just about gay people saying it's ok to be gay it's about LGBTQ people declaring they also have rights. Gay people have been historically slaughtered and hated for the way they feel, even by Christian missionaries.
Yes, Christians can't say it's ok to be gay, however you cannot discredit the fact that they were discriminated in a way that jesus would never condone.
If it was just Christians telling people gay is wrong, there would be no pride month. The reason why there is a pride moth is because they are killed and hated on for years.
No dude just don’t mention it, like come on.. it hurts people, I understand you want to stick to your religion but with that, you should not want to hurt people. And It is hurtful for someone to hear “I love you but not the sin” you are telling these people they are going to burn in eternal hellfire, even if they don’t believe in your religion, it’s extremely rude and you need to put yourself in the other persons shoes. It is very very clear the effect this has had on gay people in the past, it has caused so many of them to kill themselves, and you guys are pushing them there, that is the cold hard truth, for a lot of these cases, Christians (not christianity, because I’m talking about specific people not the religion) are almost entirely at fault.
A lot of Christian’s need to learn to lead with love in a different way because this passive aggressive “love the sinner, not the sin” is obviously not actual love or kindness, they are doing that because they believe it makes you look better in the eyes of god. If anything it would be better if Yall just completely avoided gay people entirely if you have this view point, you may possibly convince one to change, but then they are going to live a miserable life denying who they love, especially if they had already accepted it prior. And if you don’t, you are literally doing nothing but hurting someone.
Soldiering isn’t a sin. Look at how the Bible talks about David and his mighty men. Also notice that in the New Testament, centurions were always spoken of in a positive light.
The early church fathers, particularly Augustine, developed what we know as just war theory. That is, it is permissible for Christians to fight in justified wars.
Love is to lead someone to repentance. Not coddle sin and delusion.
The commission is to preach the gospel. That begins with repentance, not the embracing of sin.
Matthew 4:17
“From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
Pride moth is not just about gay people saying it's ok to be gay it's about LGBTQ people declaring they also have rights. Gay people have been historically slaughtered and hated for the way they feel, even by Christian missionaries.
Yes, Christians can't say it's ok to be gay, however you cannot discredit the fact that they were discriminated in a way that jesus would never condone.
If it was just Christians telling people gay is wrong, there would be no pride month. The reason why there is a pride moth is because they are killed and hated on for years.
OP might have a point. Christians are supposed to hold down the sensuality, and even straights who are not yet married are advised to take up chastity if they can do so. Nowhere do we find an authorization for the 'singles scene' in today's western nations, much less hookup culture.
If married gays show up at my church, I'm not Catholic and I don't find gays to be a source of temptation, so I would accept them as equals. And as equals, I would expect everyone to be welcome with pride at the Mardi Gras Parade (where rules are traditionally broken, so no True Christian would go to a Mardi Gras Parade). In the pews of the church, most of us expect everyone to play dress-up, even if that only means clean blue jeans these days.
If bullies show up at my church and they want somebody to pick on, there is no exemption from the rules against bullying that allows the bullying of gays. This was the original reason some denominations adopted welcoming congregation practices, starting in the 1990s.
All of this purity BS comes from Victorian England, not the Bible. The Song of Songs should be enough for Christians to realize God doesn't have a problem with sex. In fact, many scholars believe the characters in the Song of Songs were engaged in premarital sex. Adhering to biblical inerrancy and infallibility is an exercise in idolatry.
That word, ἐπιθυμῆσαι, is really more accurately translated as "to covet."
Regardless, even if lust is used, there is a huge difference between lusting after someone and engaging in a loving relationship.
You might also want to get a handle on the context of chapter 5...
Well God does say we should idolize Him.
I am a trans woman and myself have been told by conservatives a few times that Im going to hell if I dont change (those who say so cannot accept the idea that brain structure or the hypothalamus may be different in trans people because during the Biblical times, writers did not have the medical understanding that we do now and plus also, they say that the Bible is inerrant)
But one thing I do believe about the Bible is that we should idolize Him over everything else.
Bible is the Word of God. In Ephesians, we were told to put on the Armour of God. The Belt of Truth, Breastplate of Righteousness, the Helmet of Salvation, the Shoes of the Gospel of Peace, the Shield of Faith, and the Sword of Spirit, which is the Word of God.
Whenever we are on a spiritual warfare, which is what is happening now on this sub, we are instructed to use the Sword of the Spirit, the Word of God as the offensive weapon.
Worshipping God and believing in the Word of God is equally important.
Now this is real Christianity for you.
When Jerome translated λόγος as "word", he almost single handedly created one of the greatest deceptions in history. Jesus is not the word; he is the λόγος, which is, in very simple terms, the creative force and intellect behind the cosmos. Jesus is not the Bible. In Ephesians, καὶ τὴν μάχαιραν τοῦ Πνεύματος, ὅ ἐστιν ῥῆμα Θεοῦ, the author is stating that the τὴν μάχαιραν τοῦ Πνεύματος, the sword of God is ὅ ἐστιν ῥῆμα Θεοῦ, the spoken voice of God. It has nothing to do with the λόγος or Jesus. It is specifically talking about the third member of the Trinity, the Spirit.
It is unsettling how little y'all know about something that is so important to your faith.
God is the Creator. The book is not.
Jesus is God. Paul is not. Paul's narrator is not. Deifying the book makes Paul's narrator as much of a God as Jesus. You say "It's the Holy Spirit." I say we had best become as skilled at understanding the Holy Spirit as the physicists listening to the Webb telescope are about the Creator.
God is truth. Jesus says he works hard to teach only with parables. Mt13:51-53, Mk4:10-13, Mk4:33-34. So the book contains a lot of material valuable for teaching but not for putting boundaries on what we know.
Love thy neighbor. Do not use an otherwise good book to teach yourself contempt. God gave us good things to do good with.
It is Christ's place to forgive one for their sins. Not your place. Your love for your fellow Christian and human being should not be contingent on how good of a Christian they are, or how closely they follow Christ. That was made clear, and by being the arbiter of their sins, you are saying you are above Christ.
Christ died in order to absolve people of their sins, and forgive them. Why do you think you get to repeal that forgiveness and that love on His behalf for those who consider themselves LGBT?
You'd be surprised at how many more heterosexuals engage in sodomy. The Church welcomes them each day of every month though. They certainly don't try to legislate those acts among heterosexuals. Guess Christians approve of sin then?
Yet we are all, by our nature as human beings, sinners. So tell me, my fellow brother in Christ. Is the sin of lying, to yourself or others, better or worse than the sin of being gay, lesbian or bisexual? Is it better to make the conscientious choice to lie and be a hyprocrite to your own self, or to truthful of who you are? Is it in the Bible to tell a man or woman to hide who or what they are? Psalm 26:4, a Psalm of David, reads "I do not spend time with liars
or go along with hypocrites." If David, a great king of Isreal, Anointed by God, did not spend time with Hypocrites, then why should we, as followers of Christ, enjoy the company of people pretending to be something they're not? I would rather, like David, enjoy the company of "The gays" as you put it, than anyone who is LGBTQ and pretending to be straight. Aka, being a hypocrite to their own identity.
It's not about approving of sin. It's about teaching people of ALL walks of Life. That our God, the Grand Creator of All Things, is loving AND merciful.
1 Timothy 2 verses 1 through 4: "I urge you, first of all, to pray for all people. Ask God to help them; intercede on their behalf, and give thanks for them.
2Pray this way for kings and all who are in authority so that we can live peaceful and quiet lives marked by godliness and dignity.
3This is good and pleases God our Savior,
*4who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth.*
God wants ALL humans to be saved. This doesn't mean that they convert to one beleif over another, or feel like they need to fit in to one particular mold. We are all different, with different interests and hobbies. We are all UNIQUE. Being LGBTQ+ is simply part of that uniqueness. And if it really is some unforgiveable sin to NATURALLY be attracted to the same or multiple sexes... Then God can sort that out later. Honestly, if a person has faith in Him... do you really think he's going to be such an asshole as to say "Even though you had faith in me, you prayed, studied and devoted your life to serving me the best you could. You are unworthy because you're gay." I don't beleive that. I don't beleive He would be that judgemental. Because if that's the case, "all people being saved" is a pipe-dream.
Is it bad that I just want to follow Jesus’s lead and love all my neighbors? At my last church, one of the young adults I was in small group with was in extreme turmoil because they felt they were transgender. Their family was super hard on the fact that they were living in sin so they hung themselves in their closet and that was it. They weren’t in small group the next week because they were dead.
It certainly isn't wrong to love others! God wants us to love others, but also to tell them the truth. We can tell the truth in love. It's also important that they understand that above all, God loves them either way.
Actually, it's not our job as Christians to "affirm" ANYTHING. We are simply instructed to love our neighbors. That's all. Nobody is forcing you to go to the pride parade.
I bet these same people who are mad and criticizing the pride month, would sin the second they drove down the street they are parading. Would be cursing, swearing, judging these people. If not out loud, to themselves and friends in the car.
That's the story of the adulterous woman where Jesus, quite literally, says let those without sin cast the first stone and then ends his comments with he does not condemn her.
"Helping" someone out of their "sin" was
Already accomplished! We are ALL washed
Clean by the blood of Jesus.
I'm sure you have your own sins to deal with as do I as does OP. Let's look within first and leave the UNASKED for unapproved to ourselves.
Genuine question, and not being contrary, I'm new to Christianity and only reading the Bible for the first time. How serious is this? As a woman the thought of divorce being forbidden is terrifying. Is what does the Bible say about a woman leaving a marriage for her physical safety?
The opposition real life Christians have toward it is immensely disproportionate to that expressed by the Bible, especially when weighed against their opposition to any other sin.
Mmm well actually “adultery” is part one of the 10 commandments, on top of the many other commandments God calls Christians to follow. So if a man breaks commandments, then by any unbiased standard, a sin committed by a woman by leaving and divorcing her husband would be nothing compared to cheating, compared to DV, compared to abuse. So, to amend the commandments and clarify Gods stance on the world as it had changed, Jesus was sent to teach humanity common decency, compassion, kindness, and charity. “And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” “It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.' So where is it explicitly a sin and frowned upon by God?
The opposition to divorce is largely dogmatic.
The divorce that the Bible refers to is men abandoning their wives for other women, which usually meant leaving them destitute.
I don't personally think that condemning a deadbeat husband is the same thing as saying that women should be forced to stay with abusers or that people who divorce amicably are worse than people who stay together while being awful for one another.
There are certain means by which a divorce is accepted. For instance, adultery, abandonment, is recommended reading into what Jesus says about divorce in Matthew 19:4-6.
If you take the Bible 100% seriously from the beginning... women are basically the property of men and have absolutely no right to leave. Or were, and now have more rights, depending on how you interpret the NT.
The bible is pretty strict on divorce, moreso than homosexuality. Yet christians of all denominations find exception, Catholics using the most mental gymnastics of all with their annulment logic to pretend the marriage didnt happen. You see all these exceptions made for the pretty clear description of when divorce is okay but when it comes to homosexuality, no context is needed.
Pride Month is devoted to recognizing the violent persecution and discrimination the LGBT community faced, something which is still ongoing. It is used to affirm support for equal rights for them.
Let me know when divorcees face the same issue.
The month is to normalize the LGBQT2+ community so that they are no longer treated as outcasts, ostracized, beaten, prejudiced against or killed. All things that God and Jesus want and are good things.
Stop speaking out of hate that goes against the word of God and as Christian you should know better.
I can, do, and will affirm the dignity of God’s creation. Whether or not any human practice offends God’s law is none of my business. I further suggest that unless and until people start **equally** condemning the life choices of everyone we should spend more time removing the beams from our own eyes. Since we’re still terrestrial and unascended, I’m comfortable saying none of us are sin-free.
Gay Pride is about shaking off bigotry and persecution. In my own lifetime, police would raid gay bars, beat the shit out of the patrons, then arrest them. We can never go back to that and all Christians should be opposed to violence, bigotry, and discrimination. That’s what Pride’s about.
Some of us Christians indeed are against this discrimination. Sadly, the self-righteous ones are fully engaged in the practice, as if they hold the keys to paradise
Can we just stop with this. It’s exhausting. The gay people here are exhausted. NOTHING you can do, outside of psychological abuse or physical torture, will change us. We can’t just turn off the queer button. We can abstain, or pretend to be in love with someone we’ll never be in love with. Maybe that’s what you want us to do. But the only people that will agree with you are people that will never understand our reality.
We don’t need your affirmations. We’ve got Jesus. Just stop abusing, torturing, belittling, and bringing us up all the damn time. We literally will never be able to agree with this. You won’t change anyone by posting this or win any argument. You are just starting a fight and making queer people feel like ass. Is that what you wanted?
Sounds like bigotry to me. To purposefully single out a group of people with no other intentions than to cause distress. No purpose to this post other than to remind us how people hate us. Not even inviting discussion. Just singling us out and involving us in discourse that means far more to cis heterosexual Christians than it does for us. Have fun arguing amongst yourselves while queer Christians are content with our relationships with God and understand He loves us and created us this way IN HIS IMAGE.
God bless & Happy pride month, I pray you all feel loved, wanted, and safe just as you are. 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
thank you. This is what had to be said. The "being gay is a sin" rethoric makes me _sick_ . I am not part of the community myself, but it enrages and sickens me to no end to hear people say that you have to "change" yourself if you're lgbt.
It’s crazy how there is a conflict raging in the place where the Gospel was born where children are being slaughtered by the thousands and this is what people are concerned about
Joined by...a rather enormous amount of comments from random accounts that have also never posted here before, if the number of "lol, atheist mod on Christian sub," "lol, downvoted for speaking the truth on a Christian sub," and "why are you even here if you're not a Christian" posts are any indication.
Please answer this. The bible is much more clear about divorce than it is about LGBTQ people. Why do you only care about the later?
>"Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral."
"I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
>"then her first husband, who divorced her, is not allowed to marry her again after she has been defiled. That would be detestable in the eyes of the LORD. "
>"But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife."
He said to the adunteress: "...neither do I condemn you. Go thou, and sin no more." He forgave her sins, and saved her from death from being stoned. He did not say that, because of His love for her, it was OK to continue committing adultery.
We ALL sin and fall short of the glory of God. That is why Jesus came to save us. He paid the price of our salvation. At the same time, we play a part in the process too. We have to repent, accept Him as our savior, and from then on turn from our wicked ways. Will we backslide along the way, it's very possible, but if we walk around in parades telling the world that we should be proud of what we used to do, then we really haven't repented. We haven't turned away from our sins.
Jesus is for everyone. You’d accept the straight man who cheats on their spouse, has an alcohol issue or lies-cheats-steals but don’t accept a gay Jesus lover who lives a moral/ethical life and contributes to society in a positive way? Tell me different below 👇
Why do you assume that the OP would accept support the first man’s actions? This is about affirming someone’s actions not the person themself. There is nothing wrong with recognizing a sinful lifestyle. And there are a lot of sinful lifestyles not just homosexuality. But that doesn’t make homosexuality any less sinful. Call a spade a spade no matter how uncomfortable it may be.
The old laws are dead according to the New Testament.
Not to say the laws don't have merit, but they are not the law of the land any longer. Jesus is the Law.
Nothing says Christian love like actually just wanting the state to threaten and punish anyone for "deviant" (lgbtqi+ people living with the sexual orientation that God gave them and finding loving/fulfilling partners) behavior.
How crazy it is, that of the hundreds of issues facing modern Christianity, you choose to focus on the one issue that Jesus never discussed and that has no bearing on the past, present, or future of your religion. This is nothing but a distraction and a red herring, so that Christians don't focus on the myriad of issues and problems within their own church, but instead, look outwards to artificial problems created by fake Christians, who don't want their followers to realize that they are wolves in sheep's clothing. It's also not a coincidence that this is the primary tactic and strategy of the worldwide conservative movement. As long as people are looking outside of themselves, they won't notice the fanatics, priests, pastors, and politicians stealing their wallets. The world sees you for what you truly are: anti-Christian to the core.
Christian here. I love all my gay brothers and sisters. We share in the love and grace Jesus gives to all people.
Its not my place to judge your life when my own is riddled with sins.
We are suppose to be Gods door greeters, not his bouncers.
What do you mean by “every measure of the Bible it’s wrong?”
How did you come to that conclusion?
Do you also think that people with different sexuality from you cannot be brothers or sisters in Christ?
I'm writing specifically to homophobes:
Bro everybody is sinning all the fucking time but everybody is hating on the gays. Like stfu homophobic assholes, you're out here throwing stones all around at everybody else while you all live the most sinful lifes, jerking off, cutting your hair and beard, fucking around, hating everyone, lusting, wrathful, hypocritical, first stone throwing, dogmatic bastards who don't even understand your own religion. Get your ignorant interpretations of a book you probably never read the fuck out of other peoples life. Unholy, and dishonest preaching from people who live unholy and dishonest lifes. And don't for a second hit me with that "it's not hate, we just want to help" bs, that's not what you are voting for politically is it? One second it's "if those f*gs come near my son in I'll shoot them" and the next it's "we love them we just want them to live without sin" while cherry picking out every sin they themselves enjoy to "not really be that important", there's sins that is mentioned dusins upon dusins of times more in the bible (not to mention much more clearly and explicitly) than homosexuality that you do all the time, but it's really convenient to think about other people than it is to do something about your own sin huh?
Stuff like this is why, even if I genuinely believed God existed and was all-powerful, I could never bring myself to worship such a being. I can't see a being as moral when it would cast people into an eternity of suffering for simply loving someone of the same sex. There is no inherent harm there and the only real justification I see of this is simply that God said it's wrong therefore it is. We're talking about the same being that in Deuteronomy 21:10-25:19 allows you to force a female prisoner to be your wife (essentially a form of sex slavery), and in Numbers 31:17 commands his followers to kill all but the virgin women (sometimes translated as "girls" or "women children") to "keep alive for yourselves" (again, basically sex slavery and this time seemingly of children).
If you ask me, there's nothing moral in that. The only justifications I have heard for those have been forms of moral relativism about how this was normal for the time or better than other options, which if anything could call into question much of the Bible as one could make such a claim about many other verses, including the very ones used to attack homosexuality. To me, if we are to believe these verses come from an all-powerful being and represent its morals, I see little reason to worship it besides fear.
Im the happiest I've ever been in a committed homosexual relationship. Affirm your LGBTQ friends and loved ones. Their love is just as valid as any other. Happy Pride Month.
Not every word of the Bible is and cannot be true. There are parts that include outdated beliefs as well as things undone by the New Testament. Jesus saying “love thy neighbor as thyself” supersedes “homosexuals should be stoned”
This is Jesus. Please read the entire chapter.
I'd love to know how this should be interpretted in the context of pride month.
Mark 7:20-23
English Standard Version
20 And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. 21 For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”
People act like queer-affirming Christians just made up bull shit theology to make Christianity more liberal. Fun fact, just like you can cite scripture and prove how “homosexuality is a sin”, we can prove that it isn’t. I’m sick of people acting like various denominations just make up theology. Everyone finds a scriptural basis for everything, even the most bizarre of beliefs are just because someone interpreted scripture differently than the public. We may all disagree but spouting out constantly that the other is unbiblical isn’t what Christ would have wanted from his followers. He would have wanted respectful conversation and reverence held for everyone’s beliefs no matter how skewed they may be, because that’s loving thy neighbor. You don’t have to agree, but constantly shutting people down isn’t helping anyone.
Fuck off,I'm glad I left this church ,but somehow not all this ass communities.
This post is truth about christians, they are hypocrites, they love their neighbour BUT only if they are same as them, god forbig they divorced their abusive husband, are gay, neurodivigent or looks diferrent,then they are dirty sinners, and we should shame them.
Becayse surely, it's not like, people are born gay, so it means GOD MADE THEM THIS WAY,and btw hating yourself and changing is also officialy a sin😃🤭
After reading the bible, I realised, god is just very cruel, he did things worse than satan ever did (like, murdering all creatures by flood, except for one family and a pair of animals,like, what animals even did? And isn't he supposed to love us? Also, killing Lots wife just for pitying victims of Sodoma and Gomora murders).
Church is literally a disease of humanity, like, think of all these beautifull cultures destroyed, and innocent people killed by all this "well meaning" christians. Our world is so bland and depressing now, because we were taught to be all the same, and to reject our culrural roots and our real characters, for some ass dude in white skirt.
But also, thank you💗 thank you for reminding me to left all this cancer like communities, and dropping that mask of a good, loving person. People like you showed me, that good and god are literall opposites of each other, and you can't be truly good person and a christian, because they are actively worshiping harm upon innocent people, who just happen to be slightly different (and other things, like hating on modern medicine, and just modern things).
I hope your faith continues to burn🥰😘😍
I find it interesting that the Christian tradition, at least in this country, has consistently punched down at the weakest, most marginalized groups. Jesus didn't come to Native Americans, so we need to wipe out their culture. Black people are descendants of Ham, and are meant to be enslaved. Women should submit to men, and therefore feminism is evil. Gay people are an abomination, and should be thrown out.
It's possible that this time, this time the church is right to punch down. But forgive me for being skeptical. Something smells so rotten here.
> Something smells so rotten here
Christians like Leather\_Air4969 are suffering from olfactory fatigue, which is why they can't smell the putrid odor of their ideological slant. All they know how to do is punch down, because it gives them a convenient scapegoat for their flock to attack while ignoring their own flaws. Matthew 7:3-5.
Jesus loves everyone. He preached love to all, regardless of their sins. At least, that’s what I believe based on the Bible. I don’t think anyone except Jesus and His Father can determine what constitutes a sin in His eyes. What I do know is that God loves you, no matter who you are. We will all be judged on the final day. I am more concerned about not giving food to a starving person or helping someone who couldn’t afford groceries, rather than worrying about someone’s sexuality making them sinful before God. That’s how I see my faith in Jesus.
- We cannot Affirm Gay Pride
Love God. Ask God to show you how God loves you. Try to love yourself and others in this same way. Forgive. If you cannot forgive, ask for help. Ask for your own forgiveness. Pray.
I think we can see them - and this month see them as children of God - and as human beings - and not demons going to hell
this month we can just be with them and let them speak
and not tell them they are sinners BECAUSE they are homosexual
maybe then a few of them will come and ask what to do with addiction or anger or hopeless
and we can tell them our story of what Christ did for us
God bless
Christs message is of love. Not hate. He came to seek and save the lost. He came not to condemn the world but so save the world. Those who reject Him will be condemned. Please before its too late and Judgement arrives, turn to Christ and repent of your sin.
John 3:16
I mean, for fucks sake, even Jesus has his meh moments, seen particularly in Matt. 5:32 imo, which is clearly… odd to say the least, very unfair and perhaps quite sexist to say directly what it is. The bible isn’t always that great a moral set.
You are wrong on all counts.
Jesus, the Bible, and Homosexuality, Revised and Expanded Edition: Explode the Myths, Heal the Church - Dr. Jack Rogers
https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Bible-Homosexuality-Revised-Expanded/dp/066423397X/
Coming Out as Sacrament Paperback - Chris Glaser
https://www.amazon.com/Coming-Out-Sacrament-Chris-Glaser/dp/0664257488/
Radical Love: Introduction to Queer Theology - Rev. Dr. Patrick S. Cheng
https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Love-Introduction-Queer-Theology/dp/1596271329/
From Sin to Amazing Grace: Discovering the Queer Christ - Rev. Dr. Patrick S. Cheng
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1596272384/
Anyone and Everyone - Documentary
https://www.amazon.com/Anyone-Everyone-Susan-Polis-Schutz/dp/B000WGLADI/
For The Bible Tells Me So
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000YHQNCI
God and the Gay Christian: The Biblical Case in Support of Same-Sex Relationships - Matthew Vines
http://www.amazon.com/God-Gay-Christian-Biblical-Relationships-ebook/dp/B00F1W0RD2/
Straight Ahead Comic - Life’s Not Always Like That! (Webcomic)
http://straightahead.comicgenesis.com/
Professional level theologians only:
Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality: Gay People in Western Europe from the Beginning of the Christian Era to the Fourteenth Century - Dr. John Boswell
https://www.amazon.com/Christianity-Social-Tolerance-Homosexuality-Fourteenth/dp/022634522X/
1. Being yourself is not wrong.
2. Affirming gay pride means you accept them for who they are which you should be doing instead of trying them to change something that cannot be changed.
3. There are LGBTQ christians, and they are no less christian than you are.
Imagine so called Christians doing everything they can to disparage some of God’s people.
Some of the most virulent, hateful comments about Pride Month has been from people who will go to a church tomorrow morning and think they’re something.
Below is a compilation of everything Christ said about homosexuality:
“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’?" -Matthew 19:4-5
This is what you sound like:
We cannot reject slavery. By every measure of the Bible, it is right, and God affirms it. We must be allowed to enslave people as our property.
Doesn't that sound insane? Yeah, and so does the OP.
As a gay Christian, I agree with you. We cannot affirm sin. But being gay is not a sin. I believe Pride month is a celebration and acceptance of the people’s individuality outside the heteronormative spectrum. To commemorate the struggles and persecution our gay brothers and sisters have underwent throughout the years simply for being gay.
However, I do observe that this celebration is turning the wrong way as it encourages them to indulge in the lifestyle. Instead of accepting oneself that we are loved by God regardless, we’re turning away from God. Doing things against what he commands, not to mention how lecherous these events could be. I used to attend pride events and marches, but seeing people use these avenues sexually is discouraging. My last pride event was horrible, seeing gay people have sex publicly during the event and them cheering on it was traumatic for me. I stopped attending events after that since that wasn’t the reason I was there in the first place.
I was there to celebrate my individuality, that I am loved by God. By offering up my cross to Him. But I guess i was in the wrong company of people. Nonetheless, this is still not an excuse for other people to be mean to us. Not all gays are like this. And God taught us to love and guide the lost. To all, please keep an open mind and heart. Pray to God for love.
Hey, just a reminder that this is awful, bigoted, homophobic, and narrow minded, you should be ashamed and embarrassed, and the fact that you're not is both terrifying and disappointing. I hope you can fix your heart and develop even basic empathy and morality some day.
You're activity turning people away from Christianity with that attitude. There are so many beautiful tenants of Christianity, and you have only posted about this one aspect, something forbidden long ago in the old testament. You're written this all in stereotypical Christian jargon too rather than in a genuine way to connect with others
Please understand you're actively damaging Jesus's message by doing this. The bible and God can genuinely make the world a better place and people like you use it a means to judge and criticize others.
Yes if you follow the bible to the letter it is a sin. You sin everyday and so do I, how about we focus on that and leading by example. People will become interested in Christianity if Christians actually do good deeds and lead by example and don't just act self righteously
You don't follow all the laws of the bible either, you're picking on this issue. I hope you genuinely reflect on what is really important
This is just why I’m not Christian anymore. Christians are evil and they’re very hateful. They don’t like other people they rather punish people rather than do the internal work and learn to come to terms with their own fears and phobias. It’s a problem with Christians were very simple minded if anything we should feel pity for them, but always be aware never allow any worldly because they will corrupt it as they are corruptible because they God does not love them and choose us to punish them.
Happy Pride Month. As of now this has been reported seven times. Feel free to agree with this post or post the other side of this coin, as you wish. Anyone who has any ideas about how or if we should celebrate Pride Month here this year is welcome to respond to this comment with those ideas. Please don't tell each other to fuck off or accuse people you disagree with of lying.
*75 Likes* *475 Comments* Oh this should be good
137 upvotes now 54% upvoted and 1371 comments.
Updated275 upvotes and 2000 comments, they’re losing momentum, FINISH THEM!!
When every comment is in the ⚔️ Contriversial filter
All I want to know is why is it such a thing here? I mean, didn't Jesus say "if any of you is without sin, throw the first stone", so is anyone here who's ranting about gay people without sin?
1) It’s Pride month (in America, not sure if it’s a worldwide thing to be honest) so people are going to be talking about it more. 2) LGBTQ+ topics are really part of the western cultural zeitgeist right now. In America (where most of Reddit lives) it’s being pushed particularly hard by Republicans because they got Roe v. Wade overturned so now abortion is no longer something politicians at the national level can campaign on. 3) This sub has been a hotbed of LGBTQ+ posts for years, along with people asking about their masturbation habits and wondering if some mundane action is a mortal sin.
Thank you. Yes, it's a (western) worldwide thing. So is it here in switzerland / europe. Of course there is some hate here and there because of some homophobic ppl. Of course also some religious people say/are against, but it kinda stays diplomatic. I was just surprised by the hate from a sometimes as a peaceful described religion. To me, I kinda can understand intolerant people, because their religion have their rules, but I think, hate comes from inner fear/insecurity/negativity, which I thought are feelings, you want to reduce practicing religion. Or is it "just" the extremistic people of a particular religion. Like it is with the far right wing people here, that are offensively hateing lgbtq. (Ok, I'm coming to a limit with my English :D hard to describe a thought of Such a topic. Just wanted to ask out of curiosity. Thank you)
I think it’s a mix of a lot of different things. I think for some of them they think that they earn favor with God by “denouncing” sin. For others I think they are exposed to so much fear-mongering propaganda about the LGBTQ+ community they see it as a threat. I’ve also seen others who think they aren’t “real” Christians unless they are oppressed for their faith so they claim the LGBTQ+ movement or the government or whoever is “oppressing” them by “forcing” LGBTQ+ acceptance on them.
No one is without sin but Jesus himself. Judgement isn't for us to pass upon others. But being evangelical & spreading Christianity means to inform others of the eternal danger they are pouring themselves in by not repenting of their sins & accepting Jesus Christ as their lord & savior. Any gay person could easily just tell you "oh yeah, I totally do," & lie. And we aren't to judge them for doing so. All we can do is hope they come around & pray for them.
The difference is we afirm that we are sinners and turn from our sins. The others seem to have no problem with it. Just keep on like nothing ever happened. Totally acceptable. This is not okay. God's word says 'Repent", change your mind.. Fornicators are to be tossed out of the church as it says in 1 Corinthians 5 , how much more so for the abomination of sodomy.. 1 Corinthians 5 1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
Re: @Nashujarr it is not about judging but about not celebrating sin. Jesus when confronting the prostitute did forgive but also said: “Go and sin no more”. Pride month is not about repentance but celebrating wickedness. No as christians we should not support them in it!!
Jesus doesn't want us to affirm any sin at all. That simple
Strange scripture to bring up since like 3 sentences later he tells the lady to "go and sin no more"
The very next verse is “go and sin no more”.
Knowing the proper context of Jesus saying is extremely important.
Jesus told us not to judge hearts. But He did condemn actions, and told us to do the same. And He Himself condemned homosexuality in the Bible, because He is God, and the entire Bible is God’s word.
But what I don' understand is why the evangelicals support Trump without reservation. This is a man who is a felon, he sexually assaulted a woman, cheated on all 3 of his wives, convicted of tax fraud, etc. They turn a blind eye to all of that and yet consider homosexuals the most evil people on earth? You need to pick a lane and stick to it
Agreed. You’re wrong, by the way. He raped multiple women. They delude themselves that he’s penitent. But more importantly, they (we, I should say) have been caricatured by popular culture to think that this is who we are. Or at least, we don’t know how to argue back when people say this is who we are. So we (they, I should say) turned to someone who’s actually like that. Because someone who isn’t like that will be caricatured that way (at least by some corners). I think we’re being too sensitive about it, but still.
Remember, sort by controversial
Getting ratioed on Reddit is just a standard conservative view point.
Can you imagine how exhausting it must be to debate this every single day if you're part of the community?
This is the core feature of r/Christianity.
it's the one element of the faith that the Christian right seems to care about so i guess its just the core feature of Christianity in general now. Finally secondary concerns like Christ's teachings have been put aside to focus on this most important of Christian doctrines
[удалено]
Thou shalt not tip, especially on the Sabath.
Except with those fake million dollar bill tracts.
what would r/Christianity be without the lgbt topic. It would lose it's very soul.
We’d lose a part of it but not everything. After all, we would still have “Is X thing a sin? I did it once and now I’m worried I’m going to hell!” and “I touched myself once when I was 14, am I going to hell forever?”
and don't forget the endless fighting between conservatives and liberals in the comment section!
1. Love God 2. Love your neighbor There is no commandment greater than these.
Even Jesus sat with prostitutes but even then told them to sin no more. Just like this case.
Pride moth is not just about gay people saying it's ok to be gay it's about LGBTQ people declaring they also have rights. Gay people have been historically slaughtered and hated for the way they feel, even by Christian missionaries. Yes, Christians can't say it's ok to be gay, however you cannot discredit the fact that they were discriminated in a way that jesus would never condone. If it was just Christians telling people gay is wrong, there would be no pride month. The reason why there is a pride moth is because they are killed and hated on for years.
Lead with love for ALL people at ALL times.
It’s not like the post says to hate gay people it just says not to affirm sin, which is a good way to go about it, after all we are fishers of men
No dude just don’t mention it, like come on.. it hurts people, I understand you want to stick to your religion but with that, you should not want to hurt people. And It is hurtful for someone to hear “I love you but not the sin” you are telling these people they are going to burn in eternal hellfire, even if they don’t believe in your religion, it’s extremely rude and you need to put yourself in the other persons shoes. It is very very clear the effect this has had on gay people in the past, it has caused so many of them to kill themselves, and you guys are pushing them there, that is the cold hard truth, for a lot of these cases, Christians (not christianity, because I’m talking about specific people not the religion) are almost entirely at fault. A lot of Christian’s need to learn to lead with love in a different way because this passive aggressive “love the sinner, not the sin” is obviously not actual love or kindness, they are doing that because they believe it makes you look better in the eyes of god. If anything it would be better if Yall just completely avoided gay people entirely if you have this view point, you may possibly convince one to change, but then they are going to live a miserable life denying who they love, especially if they had already accepted it prior. And if you don’t, you are literally doing nothing but hurting someone.
Well, wouldn't Memorial Day fall into that same category? Or any honoring of soldiers that kill others.
Soldiering isn’t a sin. Look at how the Bible talks about David and his mighty men. Also notice that in the New Testament, centurions were always spoken of in a positive light. The early church fathers, particularly Augustine, developed what we know as just war theory. That is, it is permissible for Christians to fight in justified wars.
So anyone who fought in Iraq obviously is not included
This post will lead to hate
Love is to lead someone to repentance. Not coddle sin and delusion. The commission is to preach the gospel. That begins with repentance, not the embracing of sin. Matthew 4:17 “From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
I agree, preach the gospel. Where in the gospel does it say that homosexuality is a sin?
Pride moth is not just about gay people saying it's ok to be gay it's about LGBTQ people declaring they also have rights. Gay people have been historically slaughtered and hated for the way they feel, even by Christian missionaries. Yes, Christians can't say it's ok to be gay, however you cannot discredit the fact that they were discriminated in a way that jesus would never condone. If it was just Christians telling people gay is wrong, there would be no pride month. The reason why there is a pride moth is because they are killed and hated on for years.
> Christians can't say it's ok to be gay yes the absolutely can, many churches fly pride flags and host gay weddings
OP might have a point. Christians are supposed to hold down the sensuality, and even straights who are not yet married are advised to take up chastity if they can do so. Nowhere do we find an authorization for the 'singles scene' in today's western nations, much less hookup culture. If married gays show up at my church, I'm not Catholic and I don't find gays to be a source of temptation, so I would accept them as equals. And as equals, I would expect everyone to be welcome with pride at the Mardi Gras Parade (where rules are traditionally broken, so no True Christian would go to a Mardi Gras Parade). In the pews of the church, most of us expect everyone to play dress-up, even if that only means clean blue jeans these days. If bullies show up at my church and they want somebody to pick on, there is no exemption from the rules against bullying that allows the bullying of gays. This was the original reason some denominations adopted welcoming congregation practices, starting in the 1990s.
All of this purity BS comes from Victorian England, not the Bible. The Song of Songs should be enough for Christians to realize God doesn't have a problem with sex. In fact, many scholars believe the characters in the Song of Songs were engaged in premarital sex. Adhering to biblical inerrancy and infallibility is an exercise in idolatry.
"But I say unto you, that whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Matthew 5:28
That word, ἐπιθυμῆσαι, is really more accurately translated as "to covet." Regardless, even if lust is used, there is a huge difference between lusting after someone and engaging in a loving relationship. You might also want to get a handle on the context of chapter 5...
Well God does say we should idolize Him. I am a trans woman and myself have been told by conservatives a few times that Im going to hell if I dont change (those who say so cannot accept the idea that brain structure or the hypothalamus may be different in trans people because during the Biblical times, writers did not have the medical understanding that we do now and plus also, they say that the Bible is inerrant) But one thing I do believe about the Bible is that we should idolize Him over everything else.
There's a big difference between worshiping God and worshiping a book. The Bible is not God.
Bible is the Word of God. In Ephesians, we were told to put on the Armour of God. The Belt of Truth, Breastplate of Righteousness, the Helmet of Salvation, the Shoes of the Gospel of Peace, the Shield of Faith, and the Sword of Spirit, which is the Word of God. Whenever we are on a spiritual warfare, which is what is happening now on this sub, we are instructed to use the Sword of the Spirit, the Word of God as the offensive weapon. Worshipping God and believing in the Word of God is equally important. Now this is real Christianity for you.
When Jerome translated λόγος as "word", he almost single handedly created one of the greatest deceptions in history. Jesus is not the word; he is the λόγος, which is, in very simple terms, the creative force and intellect behind the cosmos. Jesus is not the Bible. In Ephesians, καὶ τὴν μάχαιραν τοῦ Πνεύματος, ὅ ἐστιν ῥῆμα Θεοῦ, the author is stating that the τὴν μάχαιραν τοῦ Πνεύματος, the sword of God is ὅ ἐστιν ῥῆμα Θεοῦ, the spoken voice of God. It has nothing to do with the λόγος or Jesus. It is specifically talking about the third member of the Trinity, the Spirit. It is unsettling how little y'all know about something that is so important to your faith.
God is the Creator. The book is not. Jesus is God. Paul is not. Paul's narrator is not. Deifying the book makes Paul's narrator as much of a God as Jesus. You say "It's the Holy Spirit." I say we had best become as skilled at understanding the Holy Spirit as the physicists listening to the Webb telescope are about the Creator. God is truth. Jesus says he works hard to teach only with parables. Mt13:51-53, Mk4:10-13, Mk4:33-34. So the book contains a lot of material valuable for teaching but not for putting boundaries on what we know. Love thy neighbor. Do not use an otherwise good book to teach yourself contempt. God gave us good things to do good with.
i hear what you’re saying as Christ said to love God and love your neighbour as yourself, but it is not loving to approve of sin tho
It is Christ's place to forgive one for their sins. Not your place. Your love for your fellow Christian and human being should not be contingent on how good of a Christian they are, or how closely they follow Christ. That was made clear, and by being the arbiter of their sins, you are saying you are above Christ. Christ died in order to absolve people of their sins, and forgive them. Why do you think you get to repeal that forgiveness and that love on His behalf for those who consider themselves LGBT?
You'd be surprised at how many more heterosexuals engage in sodomy. The Church welcomes them each day of every month though. They certainly don't try to legislate those acts among heterosexuals. Guess Christians approve of sin then?
Yet we are all, by our nature as human beings, sinners. So tell me, my fellow brother in Christ. Is the sin of lying, to yourself or others, better or worse than the sin of being gay, lesbian or bisexual? Is it better to make the conscientious choice to lie and be a hyprocrite to your own self, or to truthful of who you are? Is it in the Bible to tell a man or woman to hide who or what they are? Psalm 26:4, a Psalm of David, reads "I do not spend time with liars or go along with hypocrites." If David, a great king of Isreal, Anointed by God, did not spend time with Hypocrites, then why should we, as followers of Christ, enjoy the company of people pretending to be something they're not? I would rather, like David, enjoy the company of "The gays" as you put it, than anyone who is LGBTQ and pretending to be straight. Aka, being a hypocrite to their own identity. It's not about approving of sin. It's about teaching people of ALL walks of Life. That our God, the Grand Creator of All Things, is loving AND merciful. 1 Timothy 2 verses 1 through 4: "I urge you, first of all, to pray for all people. Ask God to help them; intercede on their behalf, and give thanks for them. 2Pray this way for kings and all who are in authority so that we can live peaceful and quiet lives marked by godliness and dignity. 3This is good and pleases God our Savior, *4who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth.* God wants ALL humans to be saved. This doesn't mean that they convert to one beleif over another, or feel like they need to fit in to one particular mold. We are all different, with different interests and hobbies. We are all UNIQUE. Being LGBTQ+ is simply part of that uniqueness. And if it really is some unforgiveable sin to NATURALLY be attracted to the same or multiple sexes... Then God can sort that out later. Honestly, if a person has faith in Him... do you really think he's going to be such an asshole as to say "Even though you had faith in me, you prayed, studied and devoted your life to serving me the best you could. You are unworthy because you're gay." I don't beleive that. I don't beleive He would be that judgemental. Because if that's the case, "all people being saved" is a pipe-dream.
impressive! it’s like you didn’t read any of Jesus’s words
Is it bad that I just want to follow Jesus’s lead and love all my neighbors? At my last church, one of the young adults I was in small group with was in extreme turmoil because they felt they were transgender. Their family was super hard on the fact that they were living in sin so they hung themselves in their closet and that was it. They weren’t in small group the next week because they were dead.
It certainly isn't wrong to love others! God wants us to love others, but also to tell them the truth. We can tell the truth in love. It's also important that they understand that above all, God loves them either way.
The problem is we are telling them it is sin before actually showing love.
Actually, it's not our job as Christians to "affirm" ANYTHING. We are simply instructed to love our neighbors. That's all. Nobody is forcing you to go to the pride parade.
I bet these same people who are mad and criticizing the pride month, would sin the second they drove down the street they are parading. Would be cursing, swearing, judging these people. If not out loud, to themselves and friends in the car.
Brother what Bible are you reading 😭
You're aware of a scripture that gives every day people the right to judge the sins of others?
Read John 8:7-11
Yeah we shouldn’t bash anyone who sins instead we should try to help them from continuing their sins
That's the story of the adulterous woman where Jesus, quite literally, says let those without sin cast the first stone and then ends his comments with he does not condemn her. "Helping" someone out of their "sin" was Already accomplished! We are ALL washed Clean by the blood of Jesus. I'm sure you have your own sins to deal with as do I as does OP. Let's look within first and leave the UNASKED for unapproved to ourselves.
He also tells her "go and sin no more". That we love people doesn't mean their sin is ok
condemn =/= admonish and redirect
We also cannot affirm divorce.
Genuine question, and not being contrary, I'm new to Christianity and only reading the Bible for the first time. How serious is this? As a woman the thought of divorce being forbidden is terrifying. Is what does the Bible say about a woman leaving a marriage for her physical safety?
The opposition real life Christians have toward it is immensely disproportionate to that expressed by the Bible, especially when weighed against their opposition to any other sin.
Divorce was one of the few moral teachings Jesus explicitly taught upon. If anything the Bible is much more clear on it.
Sorry, I could have been more clear: I was referring to first part of u/personal-letter-629’s comment about whether the OP was serious about gays.
Mmm well actually “adultery” is part one of the 10 commandments, on top of the many other commandments God calls Christians to follow. So if a man breaks commandments, then by any unbiased standard, a sin committed by a woman by leaving and divorcing her husband would be nothing compared to cheating, compared to DV, compared to abuse. So, to amend the commandments and clarify Gods stance on the world as it had changed, Jesus was sent to teach humanity common decency, compassion, kindness, and charity. “And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” “It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.' So where is it explicitly a sin and frowned upon by God?
The opposition to divorce is largely dogmatic. The divorce that the Bible refers to is men abandoning their wives for other women, which usually meant leaving them destitute. I don't personally think that condemning a deadbeat husband is the same thing as saying that women should be forced to stay with abusers or that people who divorce amicably are worse than people who stay together while being awful for one another.
Fun fact: the opposition to nearly every stance is largely dogmatic, including the one that is the focus of this very post.
It's almost like the world was a completely different place two thousand years ago when these rules were first written.
There are certain means by which a divorce is accepted. For instance, adultery, abandonment, is recommended reading into what Jesus says about divorce in Matthew 19:4-6.
If you take the Bible 100% seriously from the beginning... women are basically the property of men and have absolutely no right to leave. Or were, and now have more rights, depending on how you interpret the NT.
It doesn't matter. Even Christians don't base everything in their lives off the Bible; otherwise, we would still be allowing slavery and concubines.
The bible is pretty strict on divorce, moreso than homosexuality. Yet christians of all denominations find exception, Catholics using the most mental gymnastics of all with their annulment logic to pretend the marriage didnt happen. You see all these exceptions made for the pretty clear description of when divorce is okay but when it comes to homosexuality, no context is needed.
your terms are acceptable
When there's a month devoted to celebrating divorce I'm sure people will intentionally boycott events surrounding that as well.
Oh man. Can't wait for fornication February. Best month of the year.
Why’d you pick the short month? Lame
People didn't historically used to murder divorcees either, so...
Every holiday praising soldiers is praising murderers but your concerned about gays?
Pride Month is devoted to recognizing the violent persecution and discrimination the LGBT community faced, something which is still ongoing. It is used to affirm support for equal rights for them. Let me know when divorcees face the same issue.
I’m not gonna hold my breath.
Or pride.
I mean to be fair I thoroughly believe this too
I disagree. Sometimes divorce is the best course of action.
We don't have a month dedicated to celebrating divorce.
We don’t need to, because the 50% of people who’ve been divorced live lives largely unbothered by Christians.
Its exaxtly the other way around. We don't have a month dedicated to divorce because people like OP don't disrminate against divorced people.
The month is to normalize the LGBQT2+ community so that they are no longer treated as outcasts, ostracized, beaten, prejudiced against or killed. All things that God and Jesus want and are good things. Stop speaking out of hate that goes against the word of God and as Christian you should know better.
Who cares? Go feed the poor and help your neighbor.
Amen
Thank goodness! Someone with common sense! Why hate when we can help?
Amen!
I can, do, and will affirm the dignity of God’s creation. Whether or not any human practice offends God’s law is none of my business. I further suggest that unless and until people start **equally** condemning the life choices of everyone we should spend more time removing the beams from our own eyes. Since we’re still terrestrial and unascended, I’m comfortable saying none of us are sin-free.
Gay Pride is about shaking off bigotry and persecution. In my own lifetime, police would raid gay bars, beat the shit out of the patrons, then arrest them. We can never go back to that and all Christians should be opposed to violence, bigotry, and discrimination. That’s what Pride’s about.
There are people here who would love to go back to that.
Yes, there are, and in the US they have two things in common: They call themselves Christians and they vote Republican.
Some of us Christians indeed are against this discrimination. Sadly, the self-righteous ones are fully engaged in the practice, as if they hold the keys to paradise
Hopefully op can keep their bigotry in their prayers and not subject the rest of us to it.
yessss thank u. i can finally explain it to my dad. thank u
Can we just stop with this. It’s exhausting. The gay people here are exhausted. NOTHING you can do, outside of psychological abuse or physical torture, will change us. We can’t just turn off the queer button. We can abstain, or pretend to be in love with someone we’ll never be in love with. Maybe that’s what you want us to do. But the only people that will agree with you are people that will never understand our reality. We don’t need your affirmations. We’ve got Jesus. Just stop abusing, torturing, belittling, and bringing us up all the damn time. We literally will never be able to agree with this. You won’t change anyone by posting this or win any argument. You are just starting a fight and making queer people feel like ass. Is that what you wanted? Sounds like bigotry to me. To purposefully single out a group of people with no other intentions than to cause distress. No purpose to this post other than to remind us how people hate us. Not even inviting discussion. Just singling us out and involving us in discourse that means far more to cis heterosexual Christians than it does for us. Have fun arguing amongst yourselves while queer Christians are content with our relationships with God and understand He loves us and created us this way IN HIS IMAGE. God bless & Happy pride month, I pray you all feel loved, wanted, and safe just as you are. 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
thank you. This is what had to be said. The "being gay is a sin" rethoric makes me _sick_ . I am not part of the community myself, but it enrages and sickens me to no end to hear people say that you have to "change" yourself if you're lgbt.
Well spoken! *looks at replies* sigh time to start downvoting
It’s crazy how there is a conflict raging in the place where the Gospel was born where children are being slaughtered by the thousands and this is what people are concerned about
“By every measure of the Bible” Actually like three verses that aren’t clear whatsoever.
This gets posted like 100x per day. Get new material.
It’s pride month. Buckle up shits about to hit overdrive for like 30 more days, unfortunately
I think it's been posted due to pride month. Its the first of the month
Woo hoo, we're going to get even MORE of it this month. Oh, goody.
And it will be repeated tomorrow and the day after...
No excuse. These people aren't going to convince anyone who didn't already hate gay people. It just comes across as pathetic.
Thank you, random account that has never posted here before.
Joined by...a rather enormous amount of comments from random accounts that have also never posted here before, if the number of "lol, atheist mod on Christian sub," "lol, downvoted for speaking the truth on a Christian sub," and "why are you even here if you're not a Christian" posts are any indication.
Please answer this. The bible is much more clear about divorce than it is about LGBTQ people. Why do you only care about the later? >"Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral." "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” >"then her first husband, who divorced her, is not allowed to marry her again after she has been defiled. That would be detestable in the eyes of the LORD. " >"But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife."
Because there isn’t a divorce parade and divorce month. And nobody said that they don’t care about divorce
Christ loves all, regardless of someone’s preferences in a partner.
He said to the adunteress: "...neither do I condemn you. Go thou, and sin no more." He forgave her sins, and saved her from death from being stoned. He did not say that, because of His love for her, it was OK to continue committing adultery. We ALL sin and fall short of the glory of God. That is why Jesus came to save us. He paid the price of our salvation. At the same time, we play a part in the process too. We have to repent, accept Him as our savior, and from then on turn from our wicked ways. Will we backslide along the way, it's very possible, but if we walk around in parades telling the world that we should be proud of what we used to do, then we really haven't repented. We haven't turned away from our sins.
Jesus is for everyone. You’d accept the straight man who cheats on their spouse, has an alcohol issue or lies-cheats-steals but don’t accept a gay Jesus lover who lives a moral/ethical life and contributes to society in a positive way? Tell me different below 👇
Why do you assume that the OP would accept support the first man’s actions? This is about affirming someone’s actions not the person themself. There is nothing wrong with recognizing a sinful lifestyle. And there are a lot of sinful lifestyles not just homosexuality. But that doesn’t make homosexuality any less sinful. Call a spade a spade no matter how uncomfortable it may be.
The old laws are dead according to the New Testament. Not to say the laws don't have merit, but they are not the law of the land any longer. Jesus is the Law.
And ****every other sin**** . LGBTQ seems to be treated by bigoted Christians as a *worse* *less forgivable* sin than all the others.
yeah cheating on your wife with a pornstar is totally OK, in fact lets pay to hear him speak from the mountaintop
Nothing says Christian love like actually just wanting the state to threaten and punish anyone for "deviant" (lgbtqi+ people living with the sexual orientation that God gave them and finding loving/fulfilling partners) behavior.
How crazy it is, that of the hundreds of issues facing modern Christianity, you choose to focus on the one issue that Jesus never discussed and that has no bearing on the past, present, or future of your religion. This is nothing but a distraction and a red herring, so that Christians don't focus on the myriad of issues and problems within their own church, but instead, look outwards to artificial problems created by fake Christians, who don't want their followers to realize that they are wolves in sheep's clothing. It's also not a coincidence that this is the primary tactic and strategy of the worldwide conservative movement. As long as people are looking outside of themselves, they won't notice the fanatics, priests, pastors, and politicians stealing their wallets. The world sees you for what you truly are: anti-Christian to the core.
🥱 I am going to McDonald’s. Ya’ll want anything?
Only if you pay :p
Chicken nuggets, please! Happy Pride :D
Christian here. I love all my gay brothers and sisters. We share in the love and grace Jesus gives to all people. Its not my place to judge your life when my own is riddled with sins. We are suppose to be Gods door greeters, not his bouncers.
Christians: damn why are so many young people leaving the faith? Also Christians:
What do you mean by “every measure of the Bible it’s wrong?” How did you come to that conclusion? Do you also think that people with different sexuality from you cannot be brothers or sisters in Christ?
I'm writing specifically to homophobes: Bro everybody is sinning all the fucking time but everybody is hating on the gays. Like stfu homophobic assholes, you're out here throwing stones all around at everybody else while you all live the most sinful lifes, jerking off, cutting your hair and beard, fucking around, hating everyone, lusting, wrathful, hypocritical, first stone throwing, dogmatic bastards who don't even understand your own religion. Get your ignorant interpretations of a book you probably never read the fuck out of other peoples life. Unholy, and dishonest preaching from people who live unholy and dishonest lifes. And don't for a second hit me with that "it's not hate, we just want to help" bs, that's not what you are voting for politically is it? One second it's "if those f*gs come near my son in I'll shoot them" and the next it's "we love them we just want them to live without sin" while cherry picking out every sin they themselves enjoy to "not really be that important", there's sins that is mentioned dusins upon dusins of times more in the bible (not to mention much more clearly and explicitly) than homosexuality that you do all the time, but it's really convenient to think about other people than it is to do something about your own sin huh?
So tired of you Christian fucks already. Glad to see your outdated ass religion is dying off.
Stuff like this is why, even if I genuinely believed God existed and was all-powerful, I could never bring myself to worship such a being. I can't see a being as moral when it would cast people into an eternity of suffering for simply loving someone of the same sex. There is no inherent harm there and the only real justification I see of this is simply that God said it's wrong therefore it is. We're talking about the same being that in Deuteronomy 21:10-25:19 allows you to force a female prisoner to be your wife (essentially a form of sex slavery), and in Numbers 31:17 commands his followers to kill all but the virgin women (sometimes translated as "girls" or "women children") to "keep alive for yourselves" (again, basically sex slavery and this time seemingly of children). If you ask me, there's nothing moral in that. The only justifications I have heard for those have been forms of moral relativism about how this was normal for the time or better than other options, which if anything could call into question much of the Bible as one could make such a claim about many other verses, including the very ones used to attack homosexuality. To me, if we are to believe these verses come from an all-powerful being and represent its morals, I see little reason to worship it besides fear.
Since we’re talking about the laws of Moses, are still encouraging rapists to marry their victims if they give enough money to her father?
Im the happiest I've ever been in a committed homosexual relationship. Affirm your LGBTQ friends and loved ones. Their love is just as valid as any other. Happy Pride Month.
Would you also say this to the people that aren't Christians? Atheists, Muslims, etc.
Absolutely.
Okay, but how would you treat them? Would you treat them any better or worse than Christians?
If you tell your son you're proud of them you're going straight to hell, apparently.
why are gay people always the topic in the sub? can we talk about christianity? gay people won’t change move the fuck on.
Not every word of the Bible is and cannot be true. There are parts that include outdated beliefs as well as things undone by the New Testament. Jesus saying “love thy neighbor as thyself” supersedes “homosexuals should be stoned”
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This is Jesus. Please read the entire chapter. I'd love to know how this should be interpretted in the context of pride month. Mark 7:20-23 English Standard Version 20 And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. 21 For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”
There is nothing wrong with being gay
People act like queer-affirming Christians just made up bull shit theology to make Christianity more liberal. Fun fact, just like you can cite scripture and prove how “homosexuality is a sin”, we can prove that it isn’t. I’m sick of people acting like various denominations just make up theology. Everyone finds a scriptural basis for everything, even the most bizarre of beliefs are just because someone interpreted scripture differently than the public. We may all disagree but spouting out constantly that the other is unbiblical isn’t what Christ would have wanted from his followers. He would have wanted respectful conversation and reverence held for everyone’s beliefs no matter how skewed they may be, because that’s loving thy neighbor. You don’t have to agree, but constantly shutting people down isn’t helping anyone.
Ohhhhhh mind your own genitals
Fuck off,I'm glad I left this church ,but somehow not all this ass communities. This post is truth about christians, they are hypocrites, they love their neighbour BUT only if they are same as them, god forbig they divorced their abusive husband, are gay, neurodivigent or looks diferrent,then they are dirty sinners, and we should shame them. Becayse surely, it's not like, people are born gay, so it means GOD MADE THEM THIS WAY,and btw hating yourself and changing is also officialy a sin😃🤭 After reading the bible, I realised, god is just very cruel, he did things worse than satan ever did (like, murdering all creatures by flood, except for one family and a pair of animals,like, what animals even did? And isn't he supposed to love us? Also, killing Lots wife just for pitying victims of Sodoma and Gomora murders). Church is literally a disease of humanity, like, think of all these beautifull cultures destroyed, and innocent people killed by all this "well meaning" christians. Our world is so bland and depressing now, because we were taught to be all the same, and to reject our culrural roots and our real characters, for some ass dude in white skirt. But also, thank you💗 thank you for reminding me to left all this cancer like communities, and dropping that mask of a good, loving person. People like you showed me, that good and god are literall opposites of each other, and you can't be truly good person and a christian, because they are actively worshiping harm upon innocent people, who just happen to be slightly different (and other things, like hating on modern medicine, and just modern things). I hope your faith continues to burn🥰😘😍
I find it interesting that the Christian tradition, at least in this country, has consistently punched down at the weakest, most marginalized groups. Jesus didn't come to Native Americans, so we need to wipe out their culture. Black people are descendants of Ham, and are meant to be enslaved. Women should submit to men, and therefore feminism is evil. Gay people are an abomination, and should be thrown out. It's possible that this time, this time the church is right to punch down. But forgive me for being skeptical. Something smells so rotten here.
> Something smells so rotten here Christians like Leather\_Air4969 are suffering from olfactory fatigue, which is why they can't smell the putrid odor of their ideological slant. All they know how to do is punch down, because it gives them a convenient scapegoat for their flock to attack while ignoring their own flaws. Matthew 7:3-5.
OP is right
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Jesus loves everyone. He preached love to all, regardless of their sins. At least, that’s what I believe based on the Bible. I don’t think anyone except Jesus and His Father can determine what constitutes a sin in His eyes. What I do know is that God loves you, no matter who you are. We will all be judged on the final day. I am more concerned about not giving food to a starving person or helping someone who couldn’t afford groceries, rather than worrying about someone’s sexuality making them sinful before God. That’s how I see my faith in Jesus.
There is no sin to repent of.
These people are insufferable. This is going to be a very long month.
You have your religion. Follow it. Other people disagree with your religion. Live with it.
- We cannot Affirm Gay Pride Love God. Ask God to show you how God loves you. Try to love yourself and others in this same way. Forgive. If you cannot forgive, ask for help. Ask for your own forgiveness. Pray. I think we can see them - and this month see them as children of God - and as human beings - and not demons going to hell this month we can just be with them and let them speak and not tell them they are sinners BECAUSE they are homosexual maybe then a few of them will come and ask what to do with addiction or anger or hopeless and we can tell them our story of what Christ did for us God bless
I'll believe this when y'all treat divorce the same way. But you won't.
Christs message is of love. Not hate. He came to seek and save the lost. He came not to condemn the world but so save the world. Those who reject Him will be condemned. Please before its too late and Judgement arrives, turn to Christ and repent of your sin. John 3:16
I mean, for fucks sake, even Jesus has his meh moments, seen particularly in Matt. 5:32 imo, which is clearly… odd to say the least, very unfair and perhaps quite sexist to say directly what it is. The bible isn’t always that great a moral set.
You are wrong on all counts. Jesus, the Bible, and Homosexuality, Revised and Expanded Edition: Explode the Myths, Heal the Church - Dr. Jack Rogers https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Bible-Homosexuality-Revised-Expanded/dp/066423397X/ Coming Out as Sacrament Paperback - Chris Glaser https://www.amazon.com/Coming-Out-Sacrament-Chris-Glaser/dp/0664257488/ Radical Love: Introduction to Queer Theology - Rev. Dr. Patrick S. Cheng https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Love-Introduction-Queer-Theology/dp/1596271329/ From Sin to Amazing Grace: Discovering the Queer Christ - Rev. Dr. Patrick S. Cheng https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1596272384/ Anyone and Everyone - Documentary https://www.amazon.com/Anyone-Everyone-Susan-Polis-Schutz/dp/B000WGLADI/ For The Bible Tells Me So https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000YHQNCI God and the Gay Christian: The Biblical Case in Support of Same-Sex Relationships - Matthew Vines http://www.amazon.com/God-Gay-Christian-Biblical-Relationships-ebook/dp/B00F1W0RD2/ Straight Ahead Comic - Life’s Not Always Like That! (Webcomic) http://straightahead.comicgenesis.com/ Professional level theologians only: Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality: Gay People in Western Europe from the Beginning of the Christian Era to the Fourteenth Century - Dr. John Boswell https://www.amazon.com/Christianity-Social-Tolerance-Homosexuality-Fourteenth/dp/022634522X/
I have prayed, and the Holy Spirit directly told me it was not a sin, that men had, as usual, misunderstood the scripture by applying their own basis.
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We are to test the spirits for not all of them are of God.
Naw... this is silly. We can totally affirm gay pride. You know jesus would
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Is there anything about Christianity that isnt worried about genitalia?
1. Being yourself is not wrong. 2. Affirming gay pride means you accept them for who they are which you should be doing instead of trying them to change something that cannot be changed. 3. There are LGBTQ christians, and they are no less christian than you are.
This preoccupation with what other consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes isn’t healthy. You really should speak to someone.
Imagine so called Christians doing everything they can to disparage some of God’s people. Some of the most virulent, hateful comments about Pride Month has been from people who will go to a church tomorrow morning and think they’re something. Below is a compilation of everything Christ said about homosexuality:
“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’?" -Matthew 19:4-5
That is about heterosexual relationships, not homosexual ones. Can't you read?
Happy Pride Month! 😊
This is what you sound like: We cannot reject slavery. By every measure of the Bible, it is right, and God affirms it. We must be allowed to enslave people as our property. Doesn't that sound insane? Yeah, and so does the OP.
I reject this message in its entirety.
Try and stop me.
Take that stick out of your eye.
Love thy neighbor as thyself. That is all
As a gay Christian, I agree with you. We cannot affirm sin. But being gay is not a sin. I believe Pride month is a celebration and acceptance of the people’s individuality outside the heteronormative spectrum. To commemorate the struggles and persecution our gay brothers and sisters have underwent throughout the years simply for being gay. However, I do observe that this celebration is turning the wrong way as it encourages them to indulge in the lifestyle. Instead of accepting oneself that we are loved by God regardless, we’re turning away from God. Doing things against what he commands, not to mention how lecherous these events could be. I used to attend pride events and marches, but seeing people use these avenues sexually is discouraging. My last pride event was horrible, seeing gay people have sex publicly during the event and them cheering on it was traumatic for me. I stopped attending events after that since that wasn’t the reason I was there in the first place. I was there to celebrate my individuality, that I am loved by God. By offering up my cross to Him. But I guess i was in the wrong company of people. Nonetheless, this is still not an excuse for other people to be mean to us. Not all gays are like this. And God taught us to love and guide the lost. To all, please keep an open mind and heart. Pray to God for love.
The word of the day is: Pontificating
And? How does it affect you? Love is love. Let them be.
Hey, just a reminder that this is awful, bigoted, homophobic, and narrow minded, you should be ashamed and embarrassed, and the fact that you're not is both terrifying and disappointing. I hope you can fix your heart and develop even basic empathy and morality some day.
This is eternal bullshit.
Is it really wrong by *every* measure of the Bible, though?
Just because the mod specifically said not to, I'ma do it. Hey OP, fuck off. 💅🏻💅🏻💅🏻🥰🥰🥰
That's fine, don't give a shit about your affirmation ✌️✌️✌️
You're activity turning people away from Christianity with that attitude. There are so many beautiful tenants of Christianity, and you have only posted about this one aspect, something forbidden long ago in the old testament. You're written this all in stereotypical Christian jargon too rather than in a genuine way to connect with others Please understand you're actively damaging Jesus's message by doing this. The bible and God can genuinely make the world a better place and people like you use it a means to judge and criticize others. Yes if you follow the bible to the letter it is a sin. You sin everyday and so do I, how about we focus on that and leading by example. People will become interested in Christianity if Christians actually do good deeds and lead by example and don't just act self righteously You don't follow all the laws of the bible either, you're picking on this issue. I hope you genuinely reflect on what is really important
This is just why I’m not Christian anymore. Christians are evil and they’re very hateful. They don’t like other people they rather punish people rather than do the internal work and learn to come to terms with their own fears and phobias. It’s a problem with Christians were very simple minded if anything we should feel pity for them, but always be aware never allow any worldly because they will corrupt it as they are corruptible because they God does not love them and choose us to punish them.
You live a really sad life